Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

“Alexa, change the president.”

This chaos was totally avoidable.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

People are weird.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

They don’t have outfits that big. nor codpieces that small.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

We do not need to pander to people who do not like what we stand for.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2012 / Post-Debate Open Thread: Horses & Bayonets

Reader Interactions

142Comments

  4. 4.

    Spaghetti Lee

    It’s already a meme

    Thank god for that. That’s the only way my generation can absorb information.

  5. 5.

    Hill Dweller

    The Kenyan usurper slept through the first debate, but still won 2 of 3 debates…without his teleprompter.

    The MSM has been appalling for the last month.

  8. 8.

    Ira-NY

    Obama won the over all debate decisively.

    Obama also won the moments. These moment will be played over and over tomorrow by the media. This will work to improve the perception Obama won.

  11. 11.

    Redshift

    @Mike from Arlington in the previous thread:

    Obama wins CNN 48 to 40 with a stronger republican sample than normal.

    Since they’ve been more Republican than “normal” in every debate, can we now just refer to this as a “CNN sample”?

    “Obama wins CNN 48 to 40, even with a CNN sample.” See?

  13. 13.

    Spatula

    Please, for the love of all that is holy and sacrilege, why is it that Obama and other Dems will NEVER, and I mean NEVER, call out obnoxious Republicans when they use DEMOCRAT as an adjective or descriptive; as in “Democrat Congress,” or the Democrat Party?”

    It is so clearly intended to be insulting and a blatant misuse of the proper verbiage, yet they take each slap in the face with the usual passivity which is why the pukes, and Romney keep doing it.

    Romney used the term twice to Obama’s face tonight, and Obama who could have issued a firm, scathing, brief, and corrective slap down, just took it as per usual.

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH…

  14. 14.

    jwb

    @Hill Dweller: Many in the media jumped the shark tonight, however. I thought Romney just looked really bad. He was very tight all night, except when the debate veered off into domestic issues. At the end, during his final statement, I thought he looked like he’d been physically pummeled.

  15. 15.

    Sly

    I don’t see what’s so funny. We need two trillion dollars in additional military spending because America has fewer muskets today than it had during the Mexican-American War. Neglecting the Musket Gap is a dangerous policy, as all this nonsense about breech-loading “rifles” and “repeaters” with ammunition “cartridges” that pointy-headed liberal intellectuals keep talking about only emboldens the enemy.

  17. 17.

    Spaghetti Lee

    @PeakVT:

    “One does not simply go to war without horses and bayonets!” “I don’t always go to war, but when I do, I bring horses and bayonets.” “Oppan bayonet style!” The possibilities and endless, and all equally hilarious!

  18. 18.

    katie5

    Made the mistake of listening to NBC post-debate (they won’t stream MSNBC in real-time). It’s 1984-time, where the media gives Romney a complete pass on his jettisoning of positions and conducts fact checking by parsing phrases. Even when I get a bit of MSNBC, I get to hear Steve Schmidt applaud the ability of Mitt to lie, intimating that this is the future of campaigning. Sigh.

  19. 19.

    smith

    I am kicking myself for forgetting about the debate. I was flipping back and forth between the Bears/Lions and Giants/Cardinals.

    Good to hear Obama kicked ass again.

  21. 21.

    Robin G.

    Mark Halpern is now claiming Romney wasn’t flustered. “He started surprisingly nervous, but then he got his footing.”

    Then he proceeded to say that Romney’s basically the worst candidate ever, but does well on optics, so in the end it won’t matter.

    I’m just sort of gaping at the TV right now.

  24. 24.

    amk

    So all of you preemptive bed wetters here with all the navel gazing how mittbot could kick Obama’s ass on Libya, what say you now ?

  25. 25.

    Hill Dweller

    @jwb: This was not a good night for Willard, and the viewers knew it. In fact, I think the win was decisive enough for Obama to make any media spin for Willard look ridiculous.

  26. 26.

    maya

    That touch football game with the pressers yesterday was really a terrible idea for RMoney. The old fart is still sweating.

  27. 27.

    NotMax

    So when do the nutters start braying about how Obama said he wants to round-up and take away your guns bayonets during his 2nd term?

  30. 30.

    JPL

    Romney could only fail and by agreeing with Obama he was not offensive. That is the only thing I can think about his plan tonight. Maybe Romney is not capable of a plan.

  31. 31.

    MikeJ

    Kos has poll results up:
    BREAKING: CBS NEWS INSTANT POLL Who won the #Debate? OBAMA: 53%; ROMNEY: 23%, TIE: 24% (Margin of Error: 4%; Sample Size: 521) @CBSNews

    Here’s our post-debate swing states poll, which found Barack Obama as the winner by a 53/42 margin: @ppppolls

    CNN insta-poll: Obama 48, Romney 40

  34. 34.

    WaterGirl

    @Disco: Let me check my binders to see if I can find the meme. Also, I can ask some women I know to see if they remember.

  35. 35.

    katie5

    @Robin G.: They’re just basically saying that they realize they’re falling down on the job but that’s okay.. The media is treating venial sins as the highest of virtues. Argh!

  36. 36.

    suzanne

    Mittens looked WASTED. And he got wasted, too. But seriously, I wonder if he’s been going all jack Mormon on us and allowing himself to get fucked up to take the pain away.

  37. 37.

    Political Observer

    The MSM is saying either draw or victory for Romney.

    It’s over folks. This was Obambi’s Grand Finale.

  42. 42.

    pseudonymous in nc

    Wingnuts are now saying that because cavalry has been used in Afghanistan, Obama got fact-checked, showing both an inability to parse the word “fewer” and an admission that Rmoney got whooped.

  44. 44.

    JWR

    @Spatula: Word. It’s an obvious insult, and the longer Dems let the “DemocRat” thing go by, all the easier for every Republican to use it as such.

  45. 45.

    Jay C

    @amk:

    So all of you preemptive bed wetters here with all the navel gazing how mittbot could kick Obama’s ass on Libya, what say you now ?

    They probably haven’t said jack sh*t abut Libya since last week, when President Obama and Candy Crowley kicked the BS out of Romney’s carping critiques in short order. And since BS is all they had, it’s no surprise Mitt would let the Benghazi thing go.

  46. 46.

    Political Observer

    This is the comments section of a site that, before the debate before this one, said that anyone the said Obama lost the debate is a traitor.

    Let me repeat that: BEFORE THE LAST DEBATE EVEN HAPPENED people here were saying that Obambi won.

  47. 47.

    joes527

    I just wandered over to RedState (I like pain) and they are all:

    Ooooooooh!!! Obama just dis’d bayonets and horses. THAT’s gonna cost him the election for sure!

    I. Shit. You. Not.

  48. 48.

    BigHank53

    I didn’t watch the debate, mainly because my liver begged me not to. But that little clip up there…did Romney have that false smile pasted over his loathing all night, or was it just for that one shot? ‘Cause that’s not an expression that’s exactly presidential.

  50. 50.

    maya

    @Hill Dweller:

    Gregory and Todd have been every bit as bad as Fox reporters during this election.

    They’re obviously looking to be traded for one big busted Fox News blond to be named later.

  52. 52.

    Hill Dweller

    Reuters also has Obama winning the debate by 30 points.

    Anyone in the media trying to spin this for Romney will look ridiculous.

  54. 54.

    Redshift

    @katie5: Other than Steve Schmidt, I thought the MSNBC analysis was quite good. Of course, a lot of them agreed with my impression that Mitt was just trying to get through it without any major mistakes.

  64. 64.

    jwb

    @pseudonymous in nc: I think PO is especially adorable tonight. It’s so fun watching him flail miserably in trying to spin this into TOTAL VICTORY. I’m surprised he didn’t go immediately for the UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH MAKES DEBATE MEANINGLESS. It would have been a much stronger line of attack. But I’ve never thought PO’s heart was really in this. He has to know he’s going to be unemployed the day after the election.

  66. 66.

    Tom65

    Who in the hell in the Romney camp thought they could go to the well with the Navy in 1917 line? They’ve been savaged on that one for at least a week. Someone’s walking back to Boston tonight.

  70. 70.

    Spatula

    @JWR:

    Word. It’s an obvious insult, and the longer Dems let the “DemocRat” thing go by, all the easier for every Republican to use it as such.

    They’ve been doing it for at LEAST 12 years.

  72. 72.

    WaterGirl

    @Redshift: It looked to me like Mittens was trying to get through the debate without PUKING. Seriously, I thought he was going to heave, except for the 30 seconds or so when he looked like he was going to cry.

  74. 74.

    jl

    As I said in previous thread, that was one of my favorite parts of the debate.

    But, just thought of slight gotcha: submarines are called ‘boats’ in Navy lingo, aren’t they? Obama called them ships.

    Is Obama really ready to lead? I dunno…

    Edit: I also liked how badly R_mn_y’s debate Reagan smile/posture imitation wore. I thought that was touching. Gave ol’ M_tt a human touch of pathos, IMHO.

  76. 76.

    dead existentialist

    Romney won the debate like the Cards won the pennant.

    Or as Fox News would say: Cards beat Giants 0-9!

  77. 77.

    suzanne

    @WaterGirl: RIGHT?! He looked rough. His eyes were all bloodshot and puffy. Obviously had too many sleepless nights lately. Too bad for him, the cramming was all for naught.

  78. 78.

    Political Observer

    @burnspbesq:

    Oh, I will. I will. I will be here on November 7th, you loser motherfuckers. To rub your whiny liberal faces in your defeat.

  81. 81.

    murakami

    @jwb:

    ALL CAPS MAKES ME WANT TO SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR NEWSLETTER!

    Seriously, why do cons always go for ALL CAPS for emphasis? The occasional bit of mail I get from conservative causes does this a lot.

  86. 86.

    Trakker

    Interesting: CNN found that Romney’s lowest point of the night with women was when he said he would get rid of Obamacare.

  87. 87.

    Triassic Sands

    Recently, I heard a Andrew Kohut (Pew) discussing the relative importance of the debates and he said that historically the final debate has mattered the most. That remains to be seen this year, since the first debate was so lopsided and the final debate was competing with pro football, but it would be nice if Kohut’s observation applies to this year’s election.

    Romney wasn’t so much bad tonight as he was ridiculous. After a while all the flipping, flopping, and floundering gets really exhausting — for me, I assume it is such second nature to Romney that he does it without breaking a sweat.

    Suddenly, Romney agreed with Obama on all sorts of issues. The big difference seems to be that whenever Obama did something good in foreign policy, Romney would have done it bigger, harder, louder, and sooner — especially sooner. Why he would have had crushing economic sanctions on Iran when they were still Persia.

    According to the “instant” CBS poll Obama won 53-23 with 24 comatose percent thinking (dreaming) it was a tie. I think we all know who those 23% are.

  88. 88.

    Political Observer

    @burnspbesq:

    LOL no!

    It’s going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonog election night. Followed by the words, “with state [X] declared, we can now announce Mitt Romney is the next President”.

  89. 89.

    jl

    @Triassic Sands: It was a mess for R%mn#y tonight (who is so disgusting to me after the first lie-a-thon of a debate I refuse to type his name). He lost 4 percentage points of the 27 percent!

  90. 90.

    Redshift

    @JWR: Too late, all Republicans already use it. They’ve been using it for long enough that the current generation don’t even realize it’s an insult, it’s just normal to them.

    The problem has always been that there are very few situations where you can complain about it without looking whiny. Yeah, they shouldn’t put up with it, but that’s easy to say, the difficult part is how to not put up with it. Like most conservative bully tactics, if you spend all your time responding to the bullying, you don’t accomplish anything else.

  93. 93.

    different-church-lady

    @Political Observer: Dude, if you’re gonna troll, troll big: “Romney’s gonna take Florida, Penn, and Ohio. Game over at 11 EST.”

    I’m surprised I have to explain this shit to you.

  94. 94.

    James E. Powell

    Unfortunately, with the remaining persuadable voters, Obama beating Romney decisively in a foreign policy debate will not move them because Obama is supposed to beat Romney decisively in a foreign policy debate.

    What matters to them is that the president is black.

    Chris Matthews was foaming all over this tonight. He said what no one else in the corporate press/media will say: Romney’s supporters do not care what positions he takes on any issue so long as his goal is to get that [insert racist epithet] out of the White House.

    That’s really what this election is all about.

  100. 100.

    redshirt

    Alas, the power of evil is always out of balance to good.

    Consider PO: If Obama wins the election, we’ll never hear from him again. Sure, we’ll make our japes the night of, and the few days after, at his expense, but his trollship will soon be forgotten.

    However, FSM forbid, if Rmoney were to win, he’ll be here lording it over all. And we’ll all feel it, no matter what words we say otherwise. It will be devastating.

    PO represents our collective fear.

  104. 104.

    JGabriel

    I’m pretty sure I used that “The 80s are calling, they want their foreign policy back” line myself, somewhere on this blog, back when Romney first called Russia the Soviets or treated them like our primary enemy — but I haven’t found it yet.

    I’m still looking though.

    Uodate: Nope, can’t find it. I wonder if someone else used it somewhere else. It sounds really familiar.

    .

  110. 110.

    Spatula

    @Redshift:

    The problem has always been that there are very few situations where you can complain about it without looking whiny. Yeah, they shouldn’t put up with it, but that’s easy to say, the difficult part is how to not put up with it. Like most conservative bully tactics, if you spend all your time responding to the bullying, you don’t accomplish anything else.

    Respectfully disagree. All it takes is firm and concise repetition of a firm and concise statement that Dems won’t put up with it. But yes, I’m sure some genius Dem consultant has concluded that to acknowledge it only perpetuates it. So naturally it’s been going on for 18 years. The Dems in general see codependence as a political lifestyle.

  113. 113.

    Spatula

    @amk:

    egg.sack.lee. As clueless as only firebaggers could be.

    Your fantasy of you against the Baggers is very important to your self image, isn’t it?

    Did you just make up the egg thing? Wow, you are so clever.

  114. 114.

    Brachiator

    @Triassic Sands:

    Suddenly, Romney agreed with Obama on all sorts of issues. The big difference seems to be that whenever Obama did something good in foreign policy, Romney would have done it bigger, harder, louder, and sooner—especially sooner. Why he would have had crushing economic sanctions on Iran when they were still Persia.

    You forgot “whiter.” When the Romneybot 2000 was not in Perpetual Lie Mode, he kept flogging the idea that he would not only do everything that Obama was doing, but that he would make it work by shocking and aweing friends and foe alike with the power of his Mormon Whiteness.

    The wingnuts and tomorrow’s Fox News pundits will cling to this with increasing desperation. It’s all they got.

    I love that Obama not only called Mitt out on his ridiculous shit, but openly mocked him. Romney will pretend that this will bounce off his smooth surface, but it is gonna leave a mark.

  115. 115.

    Redshift

    @Spatula: Yes, I’m sure if Obama had spent the debate telling Romney he wouldn’t put up with a mean word, it would have been much more effective for winning the election than making the points he wanted to make.

    It’s so simple, I can’t believe no one has thought of it!

  117. 117.

    Spatula

    @handy:

    What exactly about his comment made you yell “firebagger”?

    Handy: If you don’t ride the Obot Crazy Train 24/7, amk screams “firebagger” at you.

    Doing so apparently makes her feel she has a home at BJ.

  118. 118.

    Violet

    @James E. Powell:

    What matters to them is that the president is black.
    __
    Chris Matthews was foaming all over this tonight. He said what no one else in the corporate press/media will say: Romney’s supporters do not care what positions he takes on any issue so long as his goal is to get that [insert racist epithet] out of the White House.
    __
    That’s really what this election is all about.

    The Undecided voter lines on CNN were fascinating to watch. Women consistently liked Obama better than Men. The Men liked Romney better than Women did. And Men particularly didn’t like it when Obama called Romney on a lie.

    I’m betting most male undecided voters are white and they don’t like the black man being uppity to the white man.

  119. 119.

    Spatula

    @Redshift:

    Yes, I’m sure if Obama had spent the debate telling Romney he wouldn’t put up with a mean word, it would have been much more effective for winning the election than making the points he wanted to make.

    Hmmm…no.

    A one or two sentence statement would have taken care of it. I don’t really think it would require the entire debate; you and amk are the only ones who think that.

    And the Democratic non response to this 18 year long insult is another low-volume message to the public that Dems don’t respect themselves or fight back.

  120. 120.

    dww44

    @Redshift: I know how to counter that problem without seeming whiny. Every time a conservative/rightwinger/Republican says the “Democrat” party, counter with the “Republic” Party. Make a habit of saying “Republic” every time one would normally say “Republican”, until, like them, Republic just trips naturally from one’s mouth.

  122. 122.

    halfcynic

    @Triassic Sands: Huh. I thought I saw Nate Silver saying that the third debate hasn’t made as much difference as the first two historically wrt number crunching. Then again, other people say debates don’t matter at all, which apparently isn’t true. Anyway: it couldn’t have hoit, at least.

    It’s a little depressing to realize that “foreign policy” basically consists entirely of the Middle East, the remains of the War in Afghanistan, oh yeah, and China. I wonder if anyone’s ever going to tackle the War on Drugs again, f’r instance.

  123. 123.

    Joel

    @Triassic Sands: That is interesting, because Nate Silver basically wrote that the final debate doesn’t matter in the polls. My thinking is that the history on debates is too short to make meaningful projections of their impact.

  124. 124.

    SinnedBackwards

    To no one in particular (DNFTT):

    When one side thinks their victory will be announced “seven minutes after the polls close”, and the other thinks it will be a “looooooooooooooo….ooong election night”, well any thinking being can work out who expects to win. Jest sayin.

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    From the Guardian debate coverage:

    The Guardian’s Glenn Greenwald also thought it was a terrible debate.

    I haz a happy.

    The Guardian was also miffed that Europe rated nary a mention. They have a point, but the moderator picked the questions, so what can you do?

  129. 129.

    James E. Powell

    @different-church-lady:

    Your theory would seem to suggest that all “persuadable” voters are lying about their persuadability.

    Let me go beyond suggesting and simply say it: the remaining persuadable voters are not being honest, with themselves or with others, about their remaining persuadable. They have a preference. You can usually tell by the answers they give.

    The only thing that they can be persuaded on is whether to vote or not. Every one of them knows for whom they will vote, if they do vote.

  133. 133.

    seaboogie

    @Spatula: Agreed, but Obama knows that it isn’t worth the effort to stoop to that level, and he would look like a prissy pedant, instead of Presidential.

  135. 135.

    Triassic Sands

    @Brachiator:

    The wingnuts and tomorrow’s Fox News pundits will cling to this with increasing desperation. It’s all they got.

    Unfortunately, that’s not quite all they have. They also have millions of really stupid voters. The hardest thing for me about this election is that with all he’s got going against him, I still believe Obama should be up by 15-20 points against a candidate as pathetic as Romney. And the reason he isn’t is the same reason Bush won* in 2000 and was re-elected in 2004 — really stupid voters. Some people point to selfishness (I have in the past), but selfishness would mean than rational voters would vote in their own self-interest. For Romney to have anything like his current standing in the polls, there have to be millions of idiots who say they’ll vote for Romney, despite what that will do to them personally. And the only way I can figure most of them doing that is if they are unaware of the chasm between what they need and what Romney is offering; something that isn’t exactly a secret.

    *Maris’ 61 home runs were a lot more legitimate than Bush’s 2000 SCOTUS appointment.

  136. 136.

    Triassic Sands

    @Joel:

    You may be right. I don’t know how to reconcile the difference between Silver and Kohut. It may be not simply that there are too few data points for a meaningful conclusion, but also that the overall complexity of elections and voter actions are simply not well enough understood. Economists love the idea of the rational consumer because it makes life relatively simple for them, but there is nothing remotely rational about many, many American voters. Add to that the fact that people often don’t answer truthfully and who knows?

  139. 139.

    Applejinx

    Please, oh please, oh PLEASE let the rightwingers respond by dressing up in their Confederate Re-Enactor uniforms and memeing “We still have enough bayonets to take care of YOU!”

    Please, please, pleeeeeassseeee…

    PLEASE let’s see us some Confederate troops brandishing bayonets. Just lay it right OUT there in time for people to see which side they’d like to line up with.

    They can sit on horses if they like. I think Rafalca’s not busy lately! I’m sure she’d lend a hoof. Not like she gets to choose what she does- I’m sure we can all relate with that.

    OH PLEASE RISE TO THIS BAIT OH PLEASE!

    Me- I voted for the guy who LAID this trap, fully aware of the symbolism of both horses and bayonets in this campaign. I voted for Obama.

    He trusts America to react a certain way to the sight of angry Confederate troops with rifles and bayonets. Or, rather, two certain ways… and he’s run the numbers on it.

    PLEASE let this work. It’s the cleverest thing I’ve ever seen…

  140. 140.

    Lojasmo

    @Spatula:

    Because President Obama is principled and focused, and understands that Romney’s fuckery is a distraction, and if he had “called him on it” he would have looked smaller for doing so.

    Kindly fuck yourself.

  142. 142.

    Rorgg

    @James E. Powell: The safe states and four you mention come to 255. Easy routes to 270:

    FL (29)
    MI (16)
    NC (15)
    CO (9)+ NV (6)
    VA (13) + NH (4)

    There are a lot of paths to victory.

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