Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

The willow is too close to the house.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

When I was faster i was always behind.

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Washington Post Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

How stupid are these people?

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Monday Morning Open Thread

Monday Morning Open Thread

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Patsy Marie is unamused by the way the reality television and product placement advertising trends have debased Animal Planet’s content strategy:

Hope you people in Sandy’s path are hunkered down with all the supplies you need to see you through. Pro-tip: Airline-size bottles of booze can be quickly converted into post-hurricane Coin of the Realm. Also too: If you feel that your roof might get blown off, prop a mattress in the hallway and get under it. Stay safe!

Reader Interactions

120Comments

  1. 1.

    jibeaux

    Or, if you feel that your roof might be blown off, get the fuck out of wherever it is you live. Honestly, why do I keep seeing people having to move heaven and earth to convince people to leave NEW JERSEY during a FRANKENSTORM?

  2. 2.

    Betty Cracker

    Good point, Jibeaux, but if the roof is in imminent danger of blowing away, it’s probably too late to leave!

  6. 6.

    The Dangerman

    I share that same look whenever I see Mitt on TV (excluding the apparent desire to bite him in the ass).

    West Coaster here, going back to bed (got up early to check weather/news). Good luck, Northeasterners.

  7. 7.

    Punchy

    Has that dog ever been owned by Bruce Bochy? Should we test it for steriods and squirrel parts?

  8. 8.

    jibeaux

    @jibeaux: Or I guess maybe if they really regretted not getting some donuts when they had the chance and now they’re in a donut desert.

  9. 9.

    Robin G.

    @jibeaux: Years of sensationalist Media Who Cried Wolf making it difficult to distinguish between a ratings hike and the real thing.

    Also, shelters suck, hotels are expensive, and not everyone has family.

  11. 11.

    jibeaux

    @Robin G.: True enough, but when I read things like, “well, if you’re staying, write your SSN # on your body with a sharpie so the retrieval and recovery teams can find you”, I start to think, yeah, I’ve got some gas in the car and an overnight bag….

  13. 13.

    Suffern ACE

    So my partner decided to go to his new job today. Even though im fairly certain that when they said they would be closing, they included the HR orientation person in the part of the business that would close. I’m expecting he’ll be back any moment. Or to have some camera and mic thrust at me for comment.

  14. 14.

    scav

    @jibeaux: The dreaded doughnut desert. I’m worried that not enough is known about the impacts of climate change and invasive monomanufacture on the once-flourishing indiginous doughnut environment. Doughnuts doughnuts everywhere and not a ring to eat!

  16. 16.

    Cacti

    Has John Boehner released a statement on the President’s failure to take personal responsibility for the storm?

  17. 17.

    geg6

    @Robin G.:

    And there you have it. The media SCREAMS about every windy day or rainfall over an inch or snow over a dusting. People tune it out because it’s so utterly unhinged from reality. And the problem today is that too many people simply don’t believe them any more and that’s why we have people not evacuating in a situation in which evacuation is really, truly called for.

    Meanwhile, here in Western PA, we have the opposite problem. People here panic at the thought of any weather that may be out of the ordinary (probably because we’re overrun with olds, Tea Baggers, and old Tea Baggers). Went to the grocery store yesterday and the place was packed with old people stocking up on bread, milk and toilet paper like the world was coming to an end. Yeah, we’re supposed to get a little wind the next couple of days, a lot of rain (and if you live near a river or creek, the stocking up makes some sense as the roads may be washed out), and some snow in the mountainous areas, but we’re hardly in New Jersey. Or even Philly, for that matter.

  18. 18.

    Liberty60

    @jibeaux:

    Honestly, why do I keep seeing people having to move heaven and earth to convince people to leave NEW JERSEY during a FRANKENSTORM?

    Sorry. Couldn’t help myself.

  22. 22.

    Schlemizel

    @geg6:

    We get that here with snow storms every winter
    OMG A SNOWFLAKE FELL IN THE DAKOTAS! GRAB GRANNY AND HEAD FOR THE BASEMENT! !

    They are going to get people killed with this carp – but that works well for them too as then they can do the whole grief and mourning things. Thats good for ratings too

  23. 23.

    Maude

    Cape May, NJ is where Sandy is supposed to make landfall. It’s at the southern tip of NJ. There are the “tough” people saying they’ll ride it out. It seems that their pride is attached to staying in their houses during a dangerous storm.
    Could be that they’ll end up riding out in a hearse.

  26. 26.

    J.

    I just realized we are almost out of beer. Dang. Fortunately, we still have vodka and wine.

    Schools and the public library are closed here through Tuesday, even though it’s still pretty calm — though that will change soon.

    More importantly, what would be your pick for a Hurricane Sandy theme song? Here are my top three picks.

  27. 27.

    Eric U.

    I used to think that riding out the storm sounded like a fun thing until I saw the before/after pictures of a house that had been the site of a hurricane party. After picture was of a bare cement slab. Don’t think the partiers were carried away from that particular site in a herse, some other site, yes.

    A lot of New Jersey is really nice, but as a Pennsylvanian, I’m allowed to say that. New Jerseyites have sworn to keep it a secret.

  28. 28.

    MattF

    Also, pumpkins can become projectiles. I’m hunkered here in the DC burbs. My neighborhood has minimal flood threat, underground power lines (and a history of power staying on when surrounding areas go dark), so I’m thinking we’ll probably get through the next couple of days in reasonable shape. Still, 4-6 inches of rain and 50-70 mph gusts for about twelve hours is going to cause havoc in a lot of places.

  29. 29.

    Suffern ACE

    @geg6: yep. New York media is really bad with the “-mageddon” word coining. Janice Huff is usually good about reporting conditions and being reassuring, so I usually watch her. But we’ve got a lot of phony reporters who are good at being breathless in front of the cameras.

  30. 30.

    scav

    @jibeaux: Is it the sharpie or the SSN# or only the combo that these highly bred dogs + teams use to find and recover bodies and, why must one be dead for it to work? I mean, identify, easy, but find! ? Does it work in a doughnut desert, even in the interior of the doughnut eyewall?

    (GSD am I jumping tracks and muddling metephors here.)

  31. 31.

    gnomedad

    @Schlemizel:

    OMG A SNOWFLAKE FELL IN THE DAKOTAS! GRAB GRANNY AND HEAD FOR THE BASEMENT! !

    Still waiting for “snowstorm in October!!1 global warming lol”

    They are going to get people killed with this carp

    Just put the fish down and nobody gets hurt.

  32. 32.

    geg6

    @Schlemizel:

    Yeah, we get the same thing. It’s just crazy stuff and I agree that people actually get hurt and killed because they have to sensationalize the most common every day weather. Guess what people, it snows in Pennsylvania every fucking year!

    Speaking of panicky idiots, I was first in the office today (our staff assistant had to take her dog to the vets this am) and picked up two calls from her line. Both were parents who wanted to know if we were cancelling classes today and for the near future because OMG, THERE’S WEATHER HAPPENING!

  34. 34.

    Cacti

    @Schlemizel:

    They are going to get people killed with this carp

    I agree that carp isn’t delicious, but I don’t think eating it will kill anyone.

  36. 36.

    Davis X. Machina

    I grew up in coastal Massachusetts, a stone’s toss from the water, and have great respect for storm surges and coastal flooding. We used to get one ambulance, one fire truck and one cop car sent to our neighborhood, anything else had to wait toll the water receded and the roads in uncovered.

    The storm surge is generally what does the money damage, leading to things like the Fox Point Hurricane Barrier.

    Parts — usually small pieces — of towns like Marshfield and Duxbury and Chatham come and go with the storms, sometimes they have houses on them. Sometimes there are people in the houses.

  37. 37.

    jibeaux

    @scav: No, it’s for identification. For ease of finding, I would recommend outlining the sharpie in glow-in-the-dark paint, then dusting yourself all over with a fine coat of blood (retrieval dogs, sharks) and/or cinnamon sugar (retrieval governors).

  38. 38.

    Eric U.

    local schools have cancelled which seems ridiculous given that we are unlikely to see high winds until tomorrow. I think I’m grateful because this is our best chance for this to be a non-event for us. Umbrella effect

  39. 39.

    Comrade Mary

    @Schlemizel: Hey, if all you have to clean yourself with are baby wipes day after day when you run out of clean water, a living person could meet that threshold pretty quickly.

    Stray safe, you guys within reach of the worst of it. Toronto expects lots of wind and rain from the clashing systems. I guess I get to see if my roof still leaks and if that rear crack in the basement really needs to be fixed. [/subset of first world problems]

  40. 40.

    scav

    Thing is, there’s over reaction and over complacency and they both run up hefty body-counts, so you just do your best and rely on the best of the data and not general pre-existing dogma or theory. And then, at a point, it’s just shuffle the cards and deal with the aftermath.

  42. 42.

    Comrade Mary

    Stu from the Weather Channel thinks this is super-serious, while piecemeal NOAA reports seem to suggest that the wind is only this fast or that fast in area X or area Y, and storm surges will be this high or that high in location A or location B, which is leading to some poo-pooing from people who look at some of the more hysterical coverage from places like the Huffington OMFG ZOMBIES AND FLYING PUMPKINS PEOPLE! Post.

  43. 43.

    scav

    @Schlemizel: Actually, I know how the dogs work, I was riffing on the exact phrasing of the sentence. Still, wearing a little eau de decomposition no. 5 might help them find your still living body, which is rather more to the point.

  46. 46.

    gene108

    @jibeaux:

    Most people have evacuated the Shore.

    Even in NC, I know people who’ve ridden out Cat 3 ‘Canes in the Outer Banks.

    Why would people in Raleigh, Fayetville or Charlotte or other points inland evacuate because of storm surges effecting Wilmington and the Outer Banks?

    I fail to see your point about the need to evacuate the entire state.

  47. 47.

    Comrade Mary

    @Schlemizel: Ha! If any of y’all stray, I’m sure Anne Laurie will set up an appropriate bleg.

    “We found this matched pair of commenters huddled in the garage, plump and soiled, but very friendly, if argumentative. The doctor says that apart from blog-induced hypertension and gastric upset, they’re pretty healthy. If you know of anyone with functioning WiFi who can take them in, please send me an email. Adorable pictures below the fold.”

  48. 48.

    Schlemizel

    @RaflW:

    Have you seen the “new” Asian carp that have invaded the Mississippi River? The leap through the air to avoid predators & have actually maimed and killed people in motor boats as they fly through the air & hit people in the boats

  50. 50.

    cat

    @Betty Cracker
    Is that an AKC Boxer with a tail? I am interested in finding a breeder who doesn’t dock the tails and ears.

    Thanks.

  54. 54.

    scav

    @Schlemizel: I think there was a run on it, but people may have been thinking more of its unusually high proof. Multi-purpose stuff, can also sanitise and burn in a wick-lamp for hours. No home should be without.

  55. 55.

    gvg

    Years ago there was a hurricane that was going to hit the coast of florida but I was 50 miles inland and projections were clear we should only get gusting winds and rain so I was shocked when I stopped at the grocery store and found the longest lines I’ve ever seen all registers open and lines going up the aisles quite a ways. then I heard our schools were being closed too. I thought I must have miss understood the projections but nothing to do but go home and wait. The next days paper explained what really happened is our county was where a lot of the coastal counties evacuate TO, so our schools had to close to become the other counties emergency shelter and also people in Florida generally try not to go to a hotel, they call inland friends and ask if they can come stay. Shoppers indicated they had had scads of out of town relatives and other guests and had to do quick dinner shopping. After that I expected the hoards coming and have had guests myself. Even Florida which has more hotel rooms per population than most places on earth, doesn’t have enough when coastal areas with millions of people have to evacuate. I’ve known people who drove up several states and still couldn’t find a hotel room when a big one was coming. It’s a lot easier to just go stay with a friend. This is part of a “family evacuation plan” that the state always advertises people should have.
    So when areas near somewhere that shouldn’t get hit themselves go nuts with the shopping it might be company, not paranoia.

  57. 57.

    Schlemizel

    @gene108:

    Having been to NC I see a real good reason to evacuate the whole state – as long as they don’t move anywhere in the US. Now SC I think should be chained-sawed off the continent & allowed to float out to sea.

    >humor<

  58. 58.

    Maude

    @Schlemizel:
    Carp are Despicable.

    The wind gusts is NJ will be 80 mph.
    NOAA has serious warnings about the storm.
    Sustained winds could be 50 mph in NJ.
    Sandy is expected to come ashore in South Jersey at hurricane strength.
    Sandy will be in the NYC, NJ, CT area anywhere between this afternoon and before midnight.
    No idiot reporter will be outside with those wind gusts.

  61. 61.

    vestigial

    @jibeaux: That’s an effective strategy for evacuation propaganda. The only way it could be improved is, “Also write your SSN on your trunk, limbs and head in case parts of you become seperated from the rest of you.”

  63. 63.

    Corner Stone

    @Schlemizel:

    The dogs are trained to scent on decaying flesh so hopefully that would exclude living persons.

    That would be a suckass way to find out your significant other was really an undead.

  64. 64.

    Steeplejack

    Uneventful so far in my corner of NoVa (Falls Church). There is a steady rain coming down, but no wind so far. Temp has dropped down to 51°. I just came in from moving my car from the tree-lined street in front to a parking lot behind a building half a block down. Less chance of tree damage there, I think.

    I went out a little before 7:00 this morning to Home Depot. There weren’t many people there. I was looking for a battery-powered lantern, but they were completely out of flashlights and lanterns. Then I went to the grocery to pick up a few things. Not many people there either, but the shelves didn’t look denuded.

    So now the housecat and I are in for the duration. She’s dozing at her workstation–heated microfleece throw by the computer–occasionally getting irritated when her tail swishing across the keyboard gets poked as I type.

    I watched the TV coverage for a while until they started repeating themselves. And I got sick of the hysterical weather porn vibe. So now I’m listening to jazz and hoping the power doesn’t go out tonight. As long as I’ve got cable and the Intertubes, rain and wind are okay.

  65. 65.

    Comrade Mary

    @Schlemizel: I HAVE DEADLINES! I DO MY BEST (non-billable hours) WORK UNDER PRESSURE!

    Now I’m just wondering whether I should go out and buy a shoddy back up power system from Canadian Tire today. Yes, Toronto won’t have hurricane stuff proper, but it will be pretty damn windy by local standards.

    My part of town is pretty good for power outages when things get the least little bit blowy or if something odd happens locally. A few years back, one of the local slaughterhouses burned down. (Poor swine: they were headed for the killing floor anyway, but DIAF is still fucking awful.) Our neighbourhood was without power for close to two days.

  66. 66.

    Corner Stone

    @jibeaux:

    then dusting yourself all over with a fine coat of blood (retrieval dogs, sharks) and/or cinnamon sugar (retrieval governors).

    I think I’d rather take my chances swimming the heck out of wherever I was before I’d want a retrieval shark to be sent in to get me out.
    At least with the retrieval governor you’d have a chance of distracting him with a pastry before he mauled you.

  70. 70.

    Comrade Mary

    @Corner Stone: So “plump and soiled” doesn’t work for you? We can always try jibeaux’s brilliant idea of dusting ourselves with something appropriate. Can’t be Cheetos dust, because that’s a right wing thing.

  72. 72.

    shortstop

    We spent the weekend in Toledo getting out the vote. As we were driving homeward across Indiana last night, we passed at least a hundred tree-trimming trucks heading east.

    Thank you, federal government! If FEMA were eliminated and states left on their own like Romney wants, those guys would still be trying to negotiate the Skyway.

  73. 73.

    Steeplejack

    @Corner Stone:

    Don’t know what the plucky Vietnamese are doing. The housecat has wet food aplenty, and I laid in some victuals for myself, so we’re in lockdown. And I’ve got booze. Noodles were not on the “bare essentials” list.

  74. 74.

    Corner Stone

    @Comrade Mary: I’ve gotta be honest, I don’t remember ever telling myself I needed to uncomfortably ogle a plump and soiled individual.
    Plump’s not a problem and sometimes soiled (depending on what that means to you) can be kinda hot. But, um, “plump and soiled” aren’t selling me as a key demographic.

  76. 76.

    MattF

    @J.: Downtown Bethesda. I think the condo building I’m in is actually connected to the CBD grid that powers the Metro and the big office buildings, so if we went down, it would mean there’s really no power anywhere.

  77. 77.

    Steeplejack

    @shortstop:

    Heh, true dat. Actually, I have some pho thing from Trader Joe’s in the freezer that I bought on a whim, so I can deploy that if necessary.

  78. 78.

    Betty Cracker

    @cat: She’s a boxer sans papers. I think intact ears are more common these days than elective-surgery ears, at least from what I’ve seen, but it is hard to find a boxer with a whole tail unless you contact a breeder before a litter is born and specifically request leaving the tail on (you’d probably have to pay up front too). Maybe ask a boxer rescue group?

  80. 80.

    R-Jud

    @Corner Stone:

    At least with the retrieval governor you’d have a chance of distracting him with a pastry before he mauled you.

    Or his heart might seize up at the excitement of finding someone.

  83. 83.

    gene108

    @jibeaux:

    You did say evacuate New Jersey, not just the Shore :-)

    ************************

    For people who think the media’s over hyping Hurricane Sandy, keep in mind this bad-girl/boy (I know both men and women, who go by Sandy) did kill 22 people in the Caribbean recently.

  84. 84.

    gene108

    @Schlemizel:

    Having been to NC I see a real good reason to evacuate the whole state

    You, like damn near everyone, are getting the Great North State confused with its idiot inbred neighbor South Carolina.

  85. 85.

    trollhattan

    @gnomedad:
    It was only a frickin’ laser away from a WIN trifecta. Finally, a path to making golf interesting.

    Also, too, if we ever get hurricane-force winds here, our tile roofs will make the neighborhood a killing zone. As it is, floods and earthquakes make things interesting enough. Head for high ground, y’all. Also, also, too, hilarious doggeh.

  86. 86.

    jibeaux

    I said, why do they have to move heaven and earth to get people to evacuate New Jersey? Not to put too fine a point on it, but that’s a cheap New Jersey joke, not a substantive point about how the entire state needed to evacuate vis a vis the shore.

    Man, it’s like reading the comment thread to one of George Takei’s joke picture mockups, where the conservatives humorlessly explain why the premise that Romney hates Big Bird is flawed.

  87. 87.

    J R in WV

    I would never have a dog’s tail docked, but fair warning, a big dog’s tail is like a baseball bat right at table height.

    A table-sweeper if ever I saw one.

    Same here in southern WV weather wise. There is going to be 2-3 feet IN the Mountains! Where no one lives, hardly. The ski places and parks will be getting a ton of snow. The roads with the “No Plowing Past This Point” signs will be impassable for a while.

    But down below 2000 feet, not so much.

  89. 89.

    TooManyJens

    Mail.app lost a draft of an important email. My task management software shit the bed. People are passing around a condescending piece of shit column in which Thomas “Iraq War cheerleader” Friedman lectures us about the sanctity of life and acting like it’s brilliant and profound. I just found out (AFTER she started going to meetings and loving it, of COURSE) that the Girl Scouts are going to require my daughter to profess a belief in God.

    I am powered by pure motherfucking rage this morning.

  90. 90.

    maya

    @jibeaux:

    why do they have to move heaven and earth to get people to evacuate New Jersey?

    I left the Jerz 40 years ago. I saw this one coming. Also, too, all of the Jerz shore is flat-land and heavily lined with expensive Galtian-type second mansions. The interior shore-line Pinnies are of more democratic stock. Which group will be screaming the loudest for FEMA $$$ (or have their lawyers vocally lobbying for it)? Stay tuned.

  92. 92.

    Smedley the Uncertain

    @Schlemizel:
    Wait a minute here…
    First its Sharks: “Shark Falls From Sky Onto Golf Course” then you come along with “They are going to get people killed with this carp .”
    I know we’re getting a lot of rain, but this….

  93. 93.

    Schlemizel

    @gene108:

    No my bigotry extends well beyond the Carolinas! I’d be happy to allow all the states of ol dixie to float off into the Caribbean so they could reach their natural level as a banana republic. But then given that much of the disease they bred has metastasized into the rest of the nation annexation by Canada my be my only option.

    The only thing stopping a repeat of 1860-64 is that there are many decent people in ol dixie while the disease has spread to far too many in the old union.

  94. 94.

    Schlemizel

    @TooManyJens:

    My boy went through that with the boy scouts. We had two good things going for us. First & very importantly the troop my son belonged to was not a stickler on the belief thing & made a point of not requiring it be the hairy thunderer we are most familiar with here in the US. Second he was mature enough to understand that he could say the words while maintaining his own beliefs it what they meant.

    I hope you have a troop as enlightened as his & that you can guide your daughter to the same sort of compromise. I worry that I made him more cynical too early but it took me too long to get this way so maybe its better to get it out of the way young

  95. 95.

    trollhattan

    @maya: Ga-ran-tee they all carry mandatory, federally backed flood insurance. Will be interesting to see the budget-bustin’ total federal tab for this event–could be the most expensive disaster in US history if things go really pear-shaped.

    BTW, I hope I’m completely wrong, but live in the US’s most flood-prone metro area and we’re pretty versed in the particulars.

  96. 96.

    Betty Cracker

    @TooManyJens: Damn. My kiddo was briefly a Brownie, and that never came up. I thought they differed from the Boy Scouts in this respect (and in the institutional homophobia issue too).

    @Origuy: LMAO!

  97. 97.

    TooManyJens

    @Schlemizel: Thanks. I’m looking into my options. Officially, girls are allowed to substitute another word for “God” in the Promise, like “my creator” or something, but it’s still implying that you have to have a belief in some kind of higher power. We’ll figure something out, but sheesh, she’s 5. That’s going to be a heavy conversation to have.

    I had gotten the impression over the years that the Girl Scouts welcomed people of any religious beliefs or none. I guess I should have done my homework better.

    @Betty Cracker: They are better about the institutionalized homophobia, so they have that going for them.

  98. 98.

    maya

    @trollhattan: Ah ha! ” Federally backed flood insurance”. How could I forgot that. But where are those private sector in-cos? I know of one of those shore-line manses that is owned by an in-co ceo. Wonder what he carries?

    Stay safe and dry trollhattan.

  99. 99.

    Randy P

    We happened to have scheduled work travel so we’re safe. The 11-yr-old kitty is alone in the house though. Pet sitter checked up on her this morning.

    Also, car was parked near the PHL airport and has probably floated down the Delaware by now.

  100. 100.

    Unsympathetic

    Here in Baltimore, the freaking out people are doing over what (this morning) is just some healthy rain is pretty amazing. Roads are mostly vacant, errands this morning couldn’t have gone quicker. I’m going to the gym now and will pick up some sour mix on the way home.

    Every single store in the metro area has no water left.. but all I did to prepare was walk to the fridge, fill up my camelbak and 2 nalgenes, and put my katadyne filter where I’d need it.

  103. 103.

    different-church-lady

    Bleh… I finally get a day off and I have to spend it cooped up in the house because the entire city is shut down.

  104. 104.

    Mnemosyne

    @TooManyJens:

    I just found out (AFTER she started going to meetings and loving it, of COURSE) that the Girl Scouts are going to require my daughter to profess a belief in God.

    Wait, seriously? I would double-check with the national org about that. It’s not unheard of for local troop leaders to introduce unapproved “enhancements.” Wikipedia has the actual policy.

    Looking at the pledge itself, it looks like you could substitute something like “nature” or “humanity” or “the world” instead of “God.” But since the majority of the other people your daughter is going to interact with in her life will probably believe in some form of higher power, you’re going to have to have a conversation explaining that to your daughter at some point anyway, so this may not be a bad time to have it.

  105. 105.

    jenn

    @TooManyJens: Can she just remain silent during that part of the pledge? Such a shame that they basically want kids to lie about who they are in order to be a part of their group.

  106. 106.

    Gravenstone

    @Maude: You clearly didn’t see the Weather Channel folks (including a drenched Al Roker) standing surfside in those winds this morning.

  107. 107.

    shortstop

    @TooManyJens:

    I just found out (AFTER she started going to meetings and loving it, of COURSE) that the Girl Scouts are going to require my daughter to profess a belief in God.

    Are they? I’m not happy that the word is in the pledge, but the GSA has always been pretty upfront about kids’ right to remain silent or substitute some other verbiage during that part. Has this changed?

  108. 108.

    different-church-lady

    Having worked on a number of them recently, I believe what we currently call reality TV would be more accurately described as “Amateur Improv Filmmaking”.

    For the thing I worked on this weekend, I was kinda torn between how creative the director was being on the spot and how awful the show was going to be nonetheles. He’d give the “characters” the basic premise, but then some lightbulb would go off in his head and go over to each one and whisper in their ears, so the other characters wouldn’t know what was coming. For a bunch of non-professionals it was pretty impressive how good they were at improv — someone would come up with something on the spur of the moment and another character would run with it.

    In a strange way it was no different than Curb Your Enthusiasm. Except that CYE is brilliant and funny, and what I worked on yesterday wasn’t.

  109. 109.

    Mnemosyne

    @different-church-lady:

    This is why the Writer’s Guild keeps trying to organize the writers of “reality” shows — they’re all scripted (at a minimum to the same improv extent you’re talking about, and often more) but the “producers” (aka writers) don’t get the same pay or protections as other writers.

  110. 110.

    TooManyJens

    @shortstop: They can substitute something, but the implication in the official language is that the “something” will still be some kind of “higher power” like “my creator” or “my faith.” I mean, I suppose we could try “humanity” or something similar and see what happens. The next meeting is 11/8, so I have some time to talk to my kid and rehearse what I’m going to say to her troop leader. I’ve calmed down a little since this morning. :)

  111. 111.

    TooManyJens

    @Mnemosyne:

    But since the majority of the other people your daughter is going to interact with in her life will probably believe in some form of higher power, you’re going to have to have a conversation explaining that to your daughter at some point anyway, so this may not be a bad time to have it.

    We started having that conversation some time ago. It’s inevitable when you’re nontheists but all the grandparents and most of the extended family are believers, after all. But the particular context of a mandated promise for an organization she loves — but that considers kids like her to be outsiders in a sense — is just making me very unhappy.

    As you say, we might be able to substitute something like “humanity,” which would be fine. I’m going to talk to the leader. Alternatively, she might decide to say “God,” which is a decision I’d be comfortable with her making later in life, but at age 5 and under pressure I’m not nuts about it. In the end, it’ll all be a learning experience.

  112. 112.

    Mnemosyne

    @TooManyJens:

    Looking at the policy, I think the point of the pledge is to have the girls promise to serve something larger than themselves, which for most people translates to “God.” If you think of it along those lines rather than getting hung up on the “spirituality” part, I think you’ll be able to come up with an acceptable substitute. And if the leader of the prospective troop is completely unwilling to accept your non-spiritual substitute, well, then unfortunately that’s probably not the right troop for your daughter.

    ETA: Also, too, unfortunately your daughter is going to be an outsider in many situations where she interacts with kids who are being raised as believers. It’s probably best to teach her to ignore it and work around it than try to shelter her from it, because I guarantee you the other kids are going to bring it up on the playground no matter what.

  113. 113.

    Corner Stone

    @TooManyJens:

    I’ve calmed down a little since this morning.

    So now you’re powered by 3/4 motherfucking rage? Or is it just caffeine at this point?

  114. 114.

    TooManyJens

    @Mnemosyne: I think you’re probably right. I do get a bit hung up on the “spirituality” part, because I’ve seen how suspicious people get of people who don’t have any supernatural beliefs, not even a vague “spirituality.” But I’m trying not to make too huge of a deal out of it because in the end, this is just one experience of many in her life.

  118. 118.

    Brachiator

    @TooManyJens:

    I just found out (AFTER she started going to meetings and loving it, of COURSE) that the Girl Scouts are going to require my daughter to profess a belief in God.

    What a pain.

    I recall something about “… God and my country” in the Boy Scout pledge. I happily repeated it knowing that I definitely did not believe in the God part, and sometimes entertained doubts about the “my country” part.

    Since scouting activities had nothing to do with religion, the verbiage never bothered me, or my parents.

    But there is no easy answer for necessary hypocrisy and discretion.

  119. 119.

    vestigial

    @Brachiator: Red Dawn taught us that scouting is a para-military activity; since America is a Christian nation, it’s appropriate for scouts to pledge allegiance to the state religion. When the Chinese invade, selling cookies will be the only way to fund the rebellion.

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