<a href=”http://www.flickr.com/photos/59124558@N06/8212686348/” title=”politico-has-angry-black-man-vs-the-nice-fat-man by dengre.bj, on Flickr”><img src=”http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8063/8212686348_04995d68b3.jpg” width=”500″ height=”416″ alt=”politico-has-angry-black-man-vs-the-nice-fat-man”></a>
Angry black man vs nice portly fellow.
So many ways to win the morning (and so many dog whistles yet to use).
How about an open thread.
Cheers
PurpleGirl
First! (???)
(Even though this is not a Balloon Juice tradition.)
ETA: But yelling TUNCH is…
jeffreyw
Oh! Dog whistles! Never mind.
Maude
@PurpleGirl:
And we don’t want that do we?
The pictures look like a comic book cover.
More mean things are said about Christie than Booker, only not dog whistling.
Ben Franklin
This is the tall weeds of compromise and democracy. Coalitions, alliances may form and then, disintegrate, as the normalcy of human nature attempts a beat-back of primordial instincts. I hope it develops with as little outside interference, as possible.
““An absolute presidential tyranny,” Amr Hamzawy, a liberal member of the dissolved Parliament and prominent political scientist, wrote in an online commentary. “Egypt is facing a horrifying coup against legitimacy and the rule of law and a complete assassination of the democratic transition.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/23/world/middleeast/egypts-president-morsi-gives-himself-new-powers.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
jonst
Booker? Are you kidding? Another neolib, just what the state needs. Have you seen what is going on in his own city lately?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/newark-city-hall-protesters-pepper-sprayed-police-article-1.1205800
PurpleGirl
@Maude: No, we probably don’t. But I couldn’t resist as I’ve never been able to do that at the sites where I could have tried it. Actually I haven’t seen it a while. I promise, I won’t do it again.
Maude
@PurpleGirl:
I like that you did it.
Someone from that blog tried to start that up here.
If I had been first, I just might have done it.
But only once.
PurpleGirl
Does it seem like a lazy day to any body else? A low level news day? Are people still recovering from Thursday?
jeffreyw
Bread porn
RosiesDad
I don’t see Booker as angry anything and Christie still needs to lose 100 lbs. or more. But Christie endeared himself to his state in his handling of the Hurricane Sandy disaster and if the state continues to perform well during clean up and rehabilitation (which will take months and years) then he will roll to re-election regardless of whom the Democrats nominate.
J.D. Rhoades
“Nice” is a word I’ve never heard used in conjunction with Christie.
Linda Featheringill
@jeffreyw:
How cute!
I know you mentioned the other day that the doggies broke into a rendition of Hallelujah Chorus when the Mrs got up but I thought you were exaggerating.
Kinda fond of her, ain’t they?
Edited because whothehell can spell?
PurpleGirl
@jeffreyw: Yum.
Shawn in ShowMe
@jonst:
Cory Booker wants to open up free trade, gut the social safety net and privatize state enterprise? When did this happen?
Fluke bucket
A sacred day. Rivalry day. Georgia vs Georgia Tech, Michigan vs Ohio State, USC vs Notre Dame. The list goes on and on. My favorite day of the year.
rikyrah
it’s Politico…what did you expect?
Linda Featheringill
The Mayor vs The Governor:
Hizzoner the Mayor is one of those old fashioned politicians, extroverted, attention hogs to be sure but downright entertaining. I don’t think that dog whistles will work on him. I think that everybody knows who he is and what he is, for better or for worse.
CarolDuhart2
To me it looks like a preview for 2016. (Can we elect another black man right after Obama? Considering who else may put their hats in the ring, it’s not impossible). Booker may be a mayor now, but one of the Democratic senators is in his eighties. If the seat opens up, Booker could be Senator Booker. It would be an easy win for him, give him national attention and stature.
Christie will probably win re-election which could set him up for a run. (Plus, I believe he will get stomach bypass surgery when things quiet down a bit). Yes, Republicans are unhappy with him over Obama, but who else do they really have that’s good?
Is it me, or do I think that Romney may somehow try again? Yes, he lost badly, but someone who thinks it’s his destiny may be deluded enough to think that if he faces a weaker opponent than Obama, he could actually pull it off this time.
Mark S.
Shorter Byron York: Hispanic voters weren’t decisive in states like Iowa, Wisconsin, or New Hampshire, so Republicans can go back to immigrant bashing.
For about fifteen minutes, I was worried Republicans would learn something from the last election, but then I put down the glue and remembered that CONSERVATISM CAN NEVER FAIL.
RaflW
They both look bad. Yes the angry black man thing is shitty, but so is the fat doofus look that Christie is sporting.
Both sides do it!
Laertes
@Shawn in ShowMe:
Nice shot. It’s annoying when people use words that they don’t understand in ways that make no sense.
JPL
@CarolDuhart2: Also, too Ann could trot out on a horse, saying the Romney’s are coming. The repubs are ready to burn Romney at the stake. It won’t happen.
PeakVT
Slow news day at Politiho.
jeffreyw
@Linda Featheringill: I’ll just quote from an email I sent TaMara this morning:
Odie Hugh Manatee
Erick, Son of Erick, isn’t happy with a story on CNN that names him and Redstate as among the people who are angry and/or in denial about the problems with the Republican brand. Erick even takes a shot at Tea Party Nation (also mentioned in the CNN story) in an attempt to distance him and Restate from the “serious nuttiness” there. The problem for Erick is that the CNN story is fairly accurate (must be a blue moon out) in that many on the right think that everyone failed conservatism and not that conservatism is a failure in its current form.
Redstate and other places on the right are largely echo chambers where the members cry for the site owners to come in and save them from any posts made that offend their tender sensibilities. Their authoritarian mindset has made them incapable of dealing with opinions that don’t fit their preconceived notions and the site owners are shielding their members from the reality that surrounds them.
I believe that the right has taken themselves out of contention in contested areas until they can directly deal with outside commentary that counters their beliefs. Wingers need to get out of the shallow end of the pool and actually fight in the real world contest of ideas and actions. Echo chambers like Redstate only weaken the right by making them think that their ideas are carrying the day since nobody can post there to counter them.
In pretending to have and run a “family oriented site”, places on the right, like Redstate, quash any real discussion in order to put up an authoritarian front to advance their party.
That’s what happens when social conservatives run a web site, it’s their way or the highway.
maya
Reagan told us greed is good. Christie tells us gluttony is even better.
CarolDuhart2
@JPL: I know that he won’t be nominated again, but he might even think he has a chance despite what happens “because it’s his destiny” or put one of his sons up to running instead.
RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist
@Fluke bucket:
Oh, good. I need to do some shopping. This means the stores will be empty and the bars will be full.
Yastreblyansky
How did a photographer get Booker to look like an Angry Black Man? I can’t see him making that kind of face unless he’s watching someone hurting the feelings of elderly people or the like. You can mock Booker from the left, but there’s no way you can brand him as “angry”.
Shawn in ShowMe
@CarolDuhart2:
One of the Romney boys is definitely going to run for the presidency one of these days. It’s become the family business. Hopefully, the Dem candidate at that time does not succumb to Josh Romney’s Stare of Death.
Brachiator
@Dennis G
Neither photo here is particularly flattering, and Booker looks more gassy than angry.
And the photo shown when I linked to the actual article showed both men laughing. The article itself was fairly bland.
@CarolDuhart2:
Romney is done. He may be stupid and arrogant enough to try to run again, but I doubt that he could win the GOP nomination.
And if Hillary Clinton feels that she has the energy for a run, she will win the Democratic Party nomination and the election by a wide margin.
Apart from this, the Democrats actually have to govern well. They have to perform. If the economy remains weak, if the job situation doesn’t improve, then it won’t matter much how strong or weak a particular candidate might be.
BTW, I don’t rule Biden out for 2016 either, but his chances depend even more on a successful Obama administration.
cmorenc
IMHO it’s impossible to even roughly handicap the potential 2016 field on either the Dem or GOP side until we see how the general run of economic and political events play out over the next two years. Remember how in early 2005 a (Hillary) Clinton vs Rudy Giuliani matchup appeared to be the most plausibly likely (though not certain?)
OTOH, it would be irresponsible not to speculate, and not much fun either. So don’t let me spoil the fun, so long as we’re clear that we’re in the realm of WAGs (wild-ass-guesses) rather than soundly informed prognostication.
Mike in NC
@JPL:
Correct. The bishop is a nonperson in the eyes of the GOP power brokers. Expect to read a lot more on how he really wasn’t severely conservative enough for the party. Santorum is setting himself up to be the leading contender for the nomination in 2016.
Mandalay
@Linda Featheringill:
I don’t share your confidence. McCain has just been telling us that Susan Rice is “not very bright”, and they desperately tried to portray Obama as angry and lazy during the reelection campaign. I doubt that Booker will get a free pass if the race is tight.
But if that does happen I wouldn’t be surprised if Christie goes psycho on the perp. Christie is an interesting mix of crazy-for-power and don’t-give-a-shit.
Gindy51
I don’t think having Luca Brasi as president is a good idea.
Laura
I don’t see “nice portly fellow” at all. I know I’m biased, but Christie looks like shit in that picture.
gene108
@maya:
As a fat man, I find the implication of being fat with some sort of moral impropriety to be rude, at best and insulting at worst.
CarolDuhart2
@Brachiator: I agree he won’t win the nomination again (he lost badly), but he could still make trouble in an even weaker field. He could fatally weaken a not-very strong frontrunner and leave him susceptible to a true wingnut even though he doesn’t win.
And that’s the Republicans’ problem: there’s not a single candidate known to the general public that can really pull it off against a Hillary or a Booker or a Schweitzer or even a Biden (provided he’s healthy). Because Republicans don’t have that bench strength, the chance of someone who scares off even the most delusional and ill-advised primary is unlikely. So I expect a Republican bloodbath, with Romney’s fingerprints on the knife.
Joel
I don’t know DenGee, they both look pretty unhappy in that photo.
Opie_jeanne
@Fluke bucket: Civil War In Oregon, Ducks vs Beavers.
Ailuridae
@Brachiator:
I highly, highly doubt that Clinton will run and if she does she’ll have a huge problem winning the primary. Democrats end up having to govern right of center because of structural issues with the Senate and House but the Democratic party is substantially further left than its governance. I think between her Iraq War vote and then being on point for some really odious foreign policy decision as SoS she’ll get killed from the left in a primary. I think we are really likely to see a relatively new Senator or a long term sitting governor win over anyone from the administration
22over7
@Brachiator:
Biden just turned 70. Hillary just turned 65. I don’t see either of them running in four years.
Odie Hugh Manatee, the republican authoritarian mindset is the least of their worries right now. My local fishwrap just published yet another screeching letter from a republican sore loser. The denial is complete: “Sure, libs, go ahead and laugh! We’ll be socialist! Moochers! Fox News tells the truth! Something about my cowboy boots!”
It’s utterly pitiful. A large number of Americans are being asked to re-evaluate their entire mindset, and they don’t want to. That sort of thing hurts. So, cowboy boots!
jonst
@Laertes: I would not be too sure about that.
http://coreyrobin.com/2012/04/13/in-which-i-rain-on-everyones-cory-booker-parade/
You can certainly disagree with my characterization….but it is out there. It is not made up out of whole cloth. An embrace of Charter Schools and Privatization of city services, in some cases, is a feature of Booker. As his support of Private Equity as a positive driving force. That is certainly one school of thought out there. Maybe Booker is right on all those initiatives.. But I don’t think he is. It is an on going debate…and to deny that is factually incorrect. Here is but one example of what I write of:
http://coreyrobin.com/2012/04/13/in-which-i-rain-on-everyones-cory-booker-parade/
Google Corey Booker and Neoliberalism….ok, maybe they posts are all 100% dead wrong. But the issue and argument is out there. And it is CERTAINLY an issue in Jersey about him. But perhaps no one but you two know the definition and variables of neoliberalism.
cmorenc
@Mike in NC:
Oh, please, please, please let this come true! This brings to mind one of my favorite Gary Larson cartoons where a dog has written “Cat fud” on the door of a dryer, and is hiding around a corner watching a curious cat slowly approaching, with the dog’s thought balloon “Oh please, please, please…”.
Augie
Let’s see – a nominee liberals can’t stand vs a nominee conservatives can’t stand. Sounds like a mainstream media wet-dream!
Shawn in ShowMe
@Ailuridae:
Quit beating around the bush. Just come out and say Schweitzer and Warren ;-)
General Stuck
Talking 2016 now gives me the galloping vapors.
Fluke bucket
@Opie_jeanne: oh yes! I love those late west coast battles. The end of another season looms and sadness slowly sets in.
Brachiator
@CarolDuhart2:
I really don’t see Romney doing much of anything. He had to seriously woo the wingnuts and fundamentalists to even get the GOP’s attention. The only people he has firmly on his side are crazy guys with money; and these guys have got to be disappointed with their return on investing in Romney. Additionally, a GOP front runner would not be susceptible to a challenge by a true wingnut. Right now, a front runner must actually be a wingnut.
The Republicans don’t know this yet. Not in their bones. They think that a Christie or a Jeb Bush can win for them without their having to change their message or appeal to voters whom they continually insulted during the recent presidential race.
The GOP is also unwilling to dismantle the Fox News and Rush Limbaugh Bullshit Factory that contributed to their defeat. Right now, they think that all they need to do is fine tune their message and do better at voter suppression.
But either way, the GOP’s problems go far deeper than what to do about Romney or who might best go against any particular Democratic Party nominee. And the GOP needs to worry more about 2014 and the midterm elections. Here, you might see whether they try to adjust their message or simply double down on their past stupidity.
FlipYrWhig
@Ailuridae:
This is an interesting idea, and true in quite a lot of places (because Democrats want to win votes from non-Democrats to get elected in the first place), but IMHO there are an awful lot of conservative Democrats out there, especially in red states. Would Clinton lose, say, the South Carolina primary because of disaffected liberals? And, OK, that’s not a state that’s going to have any bearing on the outcome of the presidential election. But states like Missouri or Arkansas or even West Virginia can be pretty gung-ho about a certain kind of conservative Democrat…
General Stuck
@Mark S.:
You gotta love the gooper circular logic. That since Obama won big in Wisconsin, that means Hispanics didn’t win it for him there, nor in some other BG states. So they can keep bashing brown people and remain good to go.
The thought doesn’t occur to them that maybe a number of non Hispanic voters (whites) don’t much care for their xenophobia as well.
lizard brain
Ben Franklin
Yeah. Let’s at least wait until a minute after the Inauguration, before 2016 is a hot topic.
Then we’ll really have some discussions
Joel
@Ailuridae: To the contrary, I think Hilary’s vulnerabilities with the base were repaired in large part by joining the administration. I do wonder if the president can extend the benefits of OFA to his successor. Mark Penn should be nowhere near any democratic contender from here on out.
Ben Franklin
I don’t GAFF about conservative democrats. They can eat my grits.
Mandalay
@Brachiator:
“Unwilling”? More like completely incapable.
Steve
I live in Jersey and would happily support Cory Booker. Yes, he’s done his share of sucking up to the financial industry and private equity. But he has a tough, tough row to hoe as Mayor of Newark, and the financial industry is the major player around here. If sucking up helps to bring jobs to Newark and to boost the local economy, I really can’t blame him.
Charter schools are a bigger concern of mine but I feel like that battle has been lost. I just want to see them well-regulated.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mark S.:
They have to double down on the stupid. They’re like oldline Bolsheviks that way.
Their fucked up ideology, faith rather than fact based, comes first. After all, it can only be failed. Rmoney wasn’t “conservative” enough…he didn’t embrace his makers vs. takers speech and amplify it.
Ailuridae
@Shawn in ShowMe:
I was more thinking Martin O’Malley.
Villago Delenda Est
@Gindy51:
We’ve already seen how bad it would be to have Fredo Corelone as President.
Brachiator
@Ailuridae:
Only a fool would continue to make a big deal about Clinton’s Iraq vote. I am curious as to what odious foreign policy decision she made as SoS.
This “right of center” stuff and how left the Democtatic Party might be is actually becoming more and more outmoded as demographics shift and a new generation and new mix of voters look to the Democrats for answers. And the holdover issue has little to do with left, right, or center. A lot of women wanted to see Hillary Clinton as the first woman president, and still do. And the GOP alienation of women voters plays right into this.
@22over7:
How old is Nancy Pelosi? She hasn’t retired, and for good reason. Obviously, a lot can happen between now and 2016, but I would not count either Clinton or Biden out because of age.
BTW, I think that Christie’s weight might be an issue should he choose to run. I don’t think it should be, but conventional wisdom demonizes obesity.
Villago Delenda Est
@Fluke bucket:
Civil War. Also, Apple Cup, and THE GAME.
Kane
More proof that Politico is largely written for, and read by, those living in the Beltway bubble. Who else in their right mind at this date would give a damn about discussing future political campaigns?
Jewish Steel
@Ailuridae:
Deval Patrick vs (ohpleaseohplease, Santa) Rick Santorum. You heard it here first.
@Kane: people for whom 4 years is like the blink of an eye i.e. olds i.e. (sigh) me.
Jay C
@Ailuridae: @Ailuridae:
Though I think you’re right about this bit:
(even given some variability in the definition of “substantially” ) – this:
Four years from now, Iraq will be even more of the political “ancient history” than it is even today; and the notion that as well-known a Democratic figure as Hillary Clinton is vulnerable from the Left is (tp be polite) ludicrous nonsense. HRC has already staked out positions (or will at least be perceived as having done so) as far left as national Democrats tend to go: and in any case, given that the Republican “platform” four years hence is likely to be even more extremist wingnut lunacy, there’s no advantage to her to veer to portside any more than necessary.
Hillary’s age and health (she will turn 69 just before Election Day in 2016) may be an issue – and also, what she will have done with her “retirement” years; but I think if Mrs. Clinton wants to move back to The White House, there are few barriers in her way from the Dem side.
Of course, a lot will depend on how President Obama’s second term turns out: but barring any significant (economic) disasters, I think 2016 will be ripe for a “continue the legacy” campaign. For one term, at least….
Brachiator
I largely agree. In fact it seems like only yesterday when the early 2012 speculation was about whether Sarah Palin would be the nominee or a kingmaker. Turns out that the Grifter in Chief was totally irrelevant to anything that actually happened.
Still, 2016 speculation is like leftover Thanksgiving turkey. There’s more of it there than you realize, and you have to do something with it before you finally throw it out. And I happily include my own speculation here as well.
That said, happy post Thanksgiving Day to all. Go see Lincoln. Or Skyfall. Or Wreck-It Ralph. Or even Twilight. Watch out for Rise of the Guardians. Sadly, too frenetic and uneven in tone, and too scary for younger kids. It shoulda been a contender, instead of a bum, which it is.
Ailuridae
@FlipYrWhig:
That’s all well and good. But he just went through this in a similar way with the electoral college. There aren’t enough South Carolinas and Missouris to counter the NY, IL and CA.
Ailuridae
@Jay C:
Huh? Hillary Clinton will be vulnerable from the left in a Democratic Primary. I’m not talking about the general (where I think any capable Democrat will likely crush their opponent).b
And for some of us, the moral failure on her part in the Iraq War vote doesn’t go away with time. Given two otherwise comparable candidates I would never vote for a Democrat in a primary who voted for the Iraq War
handy
@Villago Delenda Est:
Those idiots in the Pac-12 turned THE GAME into just a game. They played it weeks ago.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Not a chance in hell that Clinton would lose South Carolina, especially if she has Obama’s support.
Ailuridae
@handy:
In fairness it was only ever PAC-10 fans that ever thought much of THE GAME in the first place
Higgs Boson's Mate
The candidates in ’16 will be in part determined by whether or not the Republicans begin moving away from the Tea Party in the next midterms. If they do move away and the economy continues to sputter along then we Dems are going to need a very strong candidate to keep the White House.
Opie_jeanne
@Fluke bucket: I only care because we will be dealing with the traffic soon. Heading south on I-5 today, currently in Centralia, 82 miles north of Portland.
gene108
@Steve:
The thing that bothers me about Booker and his push for charter schools in Newark is he’s repeating the same sort of mistake Corzine made.
Corzine, like Christie, is an arrogant prick.
Corzine’s mistake is in his attempts to reform NJ government he stepped on the toes of groups, who tend to lean towards Democrats, such as state employees, when he shut down the government to push a 1% increase in the sales tax.
As an autocrat, Corzine did some good things like push NJ into becoming one of the top U.S. states in solar energy, find ways to keep the lights on for a lot of social services, but the fact he crushed the toes of his backers, plus the lousy economy, was the perfect witch’s brew for him to lose re-election.
Christie’s pissing off the same people Corzine pissed off, such as government workers and the people, who know government employees, but those guys weren’t going to vote for Christie anyway.
If Booker runs on his record as mayor of Newark, his push for charter schools will hurt him with much needed constituencies for a Democrat to have.
More than race, I think this will be Booker’s big weakness in a run for governor.
Yutsano
@Villago Delenda Est: Apple Cup was yesterday. Wazzu won. Wow that feels good to say. :)
@Opie_jeanne: I know more Beavers than Ducks, so Go Oregon State!!
quannlace
Forget running. Even his endorsement of the 2016 candidate could be toxic.
Mike in NC
@Brachiator:
Off to see “Lincoln” shortly. As a prequel, last night we rented “Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter”, which didn’t completely suck (pun intended). Campy nonsense with some decent production values.
Mandalay
@Ailuridae:
I agree, but this was even more disturbing for me, from 2005: Hillary Clinton is co-sponsoring a bill to criminalize the burning of the American flag
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/07/opinion/07wed2.html?_r=0
I would never vote for Hilary Clinton under any circumstances after that.
lacp
Politico’s probably just indulging in its usual bullshit, although a Booker-Christie race would be interesting. Can’t see what’s in it for Booker, though; I’d think if he’s looking for higher office he’d be looking at the US House or Senate.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@quannlace:
Is it any wonder that Republicans keep buffing the name of Reagan? They now have Bush I, Bush II and Romney, any of whose endorsements would be toxic.
burnspbesq
@jonst:
The question you have to answer, which you have so far avoided addressing, is really quite simple:
If not Booker, who?
gelfling545
@Ailuridae: Which candidate in any way comparable to Hilary Clinton would you expect to find on the primary ballot?
Brachiator
@Mike in NC:
I promised my sister I would rent the vampire hunter movie. It’s in my download queue. She’s off to see a matinee of “Lincoln” today.
It may be crazy weird talking to her about both movies.
Ted & Hellen
Seriously, DougJ?
You think that picture makes Christie look “nice?”
He looks like a doofus who is confused about something, and slightly stupid at that.
Robert
@RosiesDad:
Christie is still the man who tried to defund public libraries and crap all over the teachers union in his first six months in office. He’s still the man who lied his way out of creating a new transit tunnel into NYC by vilifying everyone else involved in the negotiations.
People still joke about how he swore he wouldn’t use state resources to travel to his house yet got caught taking a state helicopter to his son’s baseball game. We all still know he’s loud, crass, and willing to start arguments with anyone who dares to ask him the wrong question at a press conference.
His response to Hurricane Sandy showed he’s capable of actually governing, not just being a brash bully. He’ll need to continue to actually perform his job and not jump right back to lies and crass behavior if he’s going to easily win reelection.
I’m not holding my breath.
burnspbesq
@handy:
No, that was the Big Game.
The Game was last week. Harvard beat Yale.
gelfling545
Apparently it won’t matter because of THIS.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/21/1163715/-Obama-s-Third-Term?showAll=yes
Mr Stagger Lee
SPOILER ALERT
@Mike in NC: Tommy Lee Jones steals the movie from Daniel Day-Lewis, no mean feat.
nellcote
Unless Christie plans to campaign from a mobility scooter, he’s going to have a hard time just with the physical endurance required in a presidential race.
PurpleGirl
@Ted & Hellen: Reading fail… the poster is Dennis G. He could be snarking us.
Ben Franklin
Obama with a third term, eh?
Stone’s newest book declares Truman the worst of all Presidents because of this…….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_of_1947
The foundation of all the current bullshit…….
Maude
@burnspbesq:
It’s too early.
There are other people in NJ. He’s just gotten some attention lately.
D. Mason
This is a fucking dog whistle now? I guess it occurs to no one here that when you start calling everything that happens racist, or a dog whistle, or a ni-clang moment, or whatever other cute euphemism you come up with, it pretty much numbs people to the accusation. I had to stare at this picture to figure out what the hell you were talking about. If Rush Limbaugh called Obama a nigger on air and I heard about it first on BJ I would look for the hitch in your reporting and cross verify before I believed it wasn’t some out of context quote. That’s right, the woe is me reactionary crap around here would force me to give RUSH FUCKING LIMBAUGH the benefit of the doubt.
This place has become an un-funny joke of commentary.
Yutsano
@D. Mason: Noted, your concern has been.
trollhattan
@gelfling545:
Hmm, I’d missed this. Well, after a whopping $100k in research, who am I to argue? Obama, preznit for life(tm), fueled by OILLL!
That’s some prime grade stupid steak, right there.
CarolDuhart2
@General Stuck: Indeed, I think a lot of non-Hispanic whites use gay marriage and immigration as a marker of how compassionate and open and flexible a candidate can be in general. Republicans refuse to acknowledge that a lot of Obama’s support among whites was because of that-the people who have a lot of prejudices are also not likely to think much of people who want equity in other matters either.
@MandalayAs for Hillary, I doubt that any of the stuff that bedeviled her in 2008 will matter. Iraq, Flag Burning, drones aren’t going to move a populace who will want a bigger and better ACA, another Justice on the court for Voter Rights and Pay Equity. Even the dynasty problem won’t be… Bill’s two terms will be sufficiently distant in 2016 to not matter, and she’s established that she is her own woman in any event. Add Obama’s strong support, and she’s pretty much in.
Ted & Hellen
@D. Mason:
Well, I wouldn’t go THAT far (the man is a pustule) but I agree with your general point. I had no idea why anyone thinks this pic makes Christie looks anything less than simple and fat.
ABL, DougJ, and Mister Mix, and Zandar are the worst offenders and of course that’s four front pagers right there, and Cole hardly posts anymore so I guess it’s a N-Clang Blog now.
Full Metal Wingnut
I don’t trust Booker and I don’t want him in the White House. Way I see it, Christie doesn’t have much of a shot at being Commander in Chief, while a Booker with a governorship under his belt would.
Yeah, I might vote for Christie. If it puts the brakes on Booker’s ascendancy, I won’t feel bad about it.
Ted & Hellen
@PurpleGirl:
Doesn’t really matter, actually. The reactionary RACCCCCCCCCCCCISM accusations are generally the same.
Maude
@Full Metal Wingnut:
You beat me to it. I was going to say that I don’t trust Booker.
Yutsano
@Maude: I’d say put Cory in the Senate. Lautenberg is no spring chicken, and that would keep him out of the way of Christie (who will fuck something up here sooner rather than later) and possibly accelerate another Dem possibility.
Josie
@nellcote: I agree. Many people do not consider how strenuous mentally and physically it is to participate in a national campaign. It seemed to me that Romney was running on empty in the last month of the campaign, and I wonder about the abilities of Clinton, Biden and Christie to get through one in good shape. I suspect that is one reason that Clinton is not excited about running again. She is very aware of what it takes.
Ted & Hellen
@gene108:
Please.
Alison
@Ted & Hellen:
Wow. Go fuck yourself, please.
Maude
@Yutsano:
You do have a good point. He wouldn’t dare vote outside the Democratic caucus.
He might fold during a campaign.
Alison
@Josie: Um, considering Clinton has spent the past few years traveling hundreds of thousands of miles around the globe and seems perfectly fine and healthy, and often rather energetic and in high spirits, I don’t see any basis to question her ability to handle a Presidential campaign.
D. Mason
@Ted & Hellen: The only difference between this place these days and Red State, in terms of being disconnected from reality, is the flavor of Kool-Aid they guzzle by the gallon.
Honestly, if I took BJ as a real snapshot of “the left” I would start to look right. Thank god the internet lets me get a more genuine sample elsewhere. Less than 2 years ago this was my favorite blog but now good political posts are getting fewer and farther between while everything else is just frothing nonsense or Football posts.
Josie
@Alison: Yes, she seems fine, but she freely admits to being tired and in need of some time out. I know from personal experience that every year past, say, 65 or 70 has a slowing effect on even the healthiest person.
Full Metal Wingnut
@Ted & Hellen: I dunno, I’m no fan of Christie, but all the fat jokes make me sick. You know, the “Governor Sandwiches” bullshit. It’s not too far removed from calling Obama a commie or Muslim who wants sharia law. It weakens the validity of your position. If you had a valid criticism of a politician, I assume you’d make it, instead of hurling lazy insults and accusations. When people do that, I assume they’re simple minded and intellectually lazy.
Also, people mocking Limbaugh for his pill addiction. I DESPISE Limbaugh, but when did it become ok to mock addiction just because you don’t like someone?
Ted & Hellen
@Brachiator:
I know we’re supposed to pretend not to notice when people are grossly overweight, but obesity such as Christie’s is a threat to his health and a very poor example to set.
It’s not that he’s not a gym-cut exercise addict, which is not healthy either; it’s that he’s the other extreme, an out of control eater who doesn’t exercise.
Now let’s have the usual flame war about how being fat is just like being African American or Asian or gay or…
Ted & Hellen
@Mandalay:
Thank you for reminding me of that. It was disgusting.
Alison
@Josie: Yes, she’s said she is tired and wants some relaxation time, but I have a feeling after a couple years of taking things more slowly and such, if she were to decide to run (which she still seems unlikely to do, IMO, but who knows) she’d be 110% ready for it. She’s a tough person, mentally and physically. Hell, she’d have to be, with everything she’s done and been through!
Gindy51
@Villago Delenda Est: Twice yet. Sheesh.
Full Metal Wingnut
@Alison: I hope Hil runs (and wins) so I can finally, finally tell the reluctant Hil defectors to the Obama camp to shut the fuck up because she became President anyway.
Yutsano
@Alison: I think, personally, she wants to be a grandma. Which means being around for Chelsea so she can have her kids. Hillary does have a right to her personal life after her years of government service.
gelfling545
@Alison: As someone just a couple of years younger than Sec. Clinton I can tell you that, unfortunately, what one can do this year is not a good predictor of what one can do next year, still less 4 years from now, once you get past a certain age. Some things I did without a thought this time last year have become a bit of a struggle now. Maybe Ms. Clinton will be able to stay as active as she is now and I hope that will be the case but it can’t be assumed.
Ted & Hellen
@Alison:
OK, I did, and it was good for me.
Now you.
Ben Franklin
I need a cigarette after all this fucking
mellowjohn
@Gindy51: i’ve always seen him as more of a Bobby Bacala-type.
Alison
@Yutsano: Oh, totally agreed, which is why, even as I think about it myself, I do get a little annoyed with all the speculation about her in the press. It’s like…sheesh, let her make her own damn decisions.
@gelfling545: Of course it can’t be assumed, but that goes both ways. Some folks’ bodies do start to slow down and/or break down and some don’t. She’s shown no signs of trouble, so I just find it a bit offputting when people *do* assume in a few years she might be too decrepit. Maybe something will happen, maybe it won’t. Illness and injury can strike anyone, and some older folks live to a ripe age with little to no issues.
Citizen Alan
@Ailuridae:
Bernie Sanders is going to run in 2016?!? Because other than him, I can’t think of a single Democrat with sufficient stature to challenge her who is also visibly to her left.
FlipYrWhig
@Full Metal Wingnut: well, it’s pretty much the nature of insults, isn’t it? Don’t like a person, mock some aspect of their appearance or personality, regardless of how connected it is to the dislike. Dislike Jon Corzine and he’s a bald, scraggly-bearded prick, not just a prick. Fat, old, tall, short, glasses, whatever you’ve got. I guess the exceptions are race, sexual orientation, and some disabilities.
Ted & Hellen
@Full Metal Wingnut:
Well mocking Limbaugh is not only OK but necessary because he is a pathetic hypocrite on issues of personal responsibility and all sorts of “family values” bullshit including four wives, drugs, sex trips to the caribbean and god knows what else.
I don’t mock “addiction,” I mock Rush Limbaugh the thrice-divorced, drug addicted, viagra using, sex trip taking promoter of all that is virtuous in America
FlipYrWhig
@Citizen Alan: Sherrod Brown, perhaps.
mellowjohn
btw, THE GAME is being played right now. ohio’s up 3, so GO BLUE!!!
SiubhanDuinne
@Ted & Hellen:
Of the four posts immediately before this, three were by Cole.
(Oh, why do I even bother? Off to feed myself instead of trolls.)
Full Metal Wingnut
@FlipYrWhig: It’s just lazy, and it implies that you have no better criticism. Also, I take exception to mocking Limbaugh’s pill addiction, it is a bridge too far. There are so many criticism of Limbaugh and Christie (and even Obama) that you can make. When you hurl insults, it implies that there’s nothing deeper to criticize.
FirstTimer
@Shawn in ShowMe:
Am I the only person who thinks Booker is incredibly overrated?
He’s more of a celebrity than anything else and I mean, it’s not like he’s made things better? Murders were down but now they’re coming back. And for all his Pro-Wall Street posing, businesses refuse to relocate their and capital isn’t being invested. The schools still suck (which BTW probably has more to do with entrenched poverty ; family dysfunction; poor nutrition; and not teacher performance)
Please bear in mind, I loathe Chris Christie for both his policies and his personality.
FlipYrWhig
@Full Metal Wingnut: well, sure, but that’s what an insult is, gratuitous and mean. If it was thoughtful and considered, it wouldn’t be an insult.
Ted & Hellen
@SiubhanDuinne:
Are you serious? And how big have the gaps been otherwise? You are in denial. Cole is only about 1/3 engaged at this point. I’ts DougJ’s and Anne Laurie’s blog for the most part.
Also too and yea verily: When he does engage, Cole generally posts much more about personal issues, pets, sports, and food than anything else. Unless this now a lifestyles blog I’d say that’s all evidence for his lack of motivation around here.
lacp
@Full Metal Wingnut: IIRC, the busting on Rush about his habit was more about payback for all the shit he talked about throwing druggies in jail. Of course, he meant a certain type of druggie.
D. Mason
@Ted & Hellen:
Or that he was born with some disorder that causes him to gain weight… I realize that is the exception and not the rule but it IS out of some peoples control and you can’t tell the difference from a photograph. His political ideas would still be rancid even if he were an Adonis – that should suffice as criticism within the political sphere without resorting to anything personal.
Citizen Alan
@Full Metal Wingnut:
Um, how about when that person is the standard bearer for the party that favors a zero tolerance policy on drug use for the proles and especially for minorities? If, say, Tavis Smiley had been caught abusing Oxycontin in the manner Rushbo did, he’d be in jail today.
Full Metal Wingnut
@FlipYrWhig: I’m not really seeing your point. All I’m saying is, when I read political blogs, and I see someone say that Limbaugh is a pill-popping fat fuck, all I can think of is: really? That’s what you’re going with? Not that I think people should never say mean things because it hurts fee-fees, but when people use it in the course of what is ostensibly an intelligent discussion, or, more egregiously, expect to be taken seriously. But for rallying the troops, sure, it’s effective.
Ted & Hellen
@D. Mason:
Christie himself has admitted his food addiction and fondness for junk food.
Ben Franklin
@Full Metal Wingnut:
sure, it’s effective.
Well, if traffic is your objective, it attracts a certain strain.
CarolDuhart2
Frank Lautenberg.
I was wondering about Cory going for the Senate if Christie looks too formidable. But Lautenberg is up in 2014, and is 88 years old. So the battle could be to replace Lautenberg instead if Christie looks too tough-and holding on the Senate for the Dems is going to be a greater priority than the New Jersey Governorship.
Full Metal Wingnut
@Citizen Alan: Um, no, you’re conflating addiction with other valid criticisms of the man. What I’m saying is, when did it become ok to mock addiction? The man is a monster, but mocking addiction is also monstrous. I won’t for a second believe the people who do it have experienced the toll of addiction of a close friend or family member. If they have, though, they’ve lost their soul.
Mandalay
@CarolDuhart2:
You are probably correct, but anyone who thinks flag burning should be a crime should not be allowed anywhere near the presidency.
Citizen Alan
@Full Metal Wingnut:
What else are people supposed to call him? Sexist? Racist? Homophobic? Islamophobic? He’s PROUD of all those things! So people attack him for being physically repulsive and also a former (and possibly still — who knows) drug addict, which calls into question his mental faculties, possibly in the only way that might get some of his listeners to question his judgment.
Full Metal Wingnut
@Citizen Alan: Also, too, pointing out the hypocrisy of him using is valid, to actually ridicule addiction, and pretend that that’s ok, or valid criticism? Believe me, I know sometimes politics requires crawling through the mud or swimming in the sewer to get things done, but that’s just gratuitous.
Ted & Hellen
@Full Metal Wingnut:
Oh please…I’m a recovering alcoholic, 12 years sober.
You’ll note I am NOT on the radio lecturing other people about personal responsibility and how alkies should all be thrown in the slammer and how treatment is a scam.
Limbaugh’s hypocrisy and inconsistency, so common to the right wing, is what is being mocked, and to mock that you have to point out that he is an addict.
lacp
@Full Metal Wingnut: Well, you see this sort of piling on of unrelated stuff in a lot of ways, not just personal characteristics. Look at almost all the posts on John Schnatter’s talk about cutting his employees’ hours – how many didn’t get in a dig about how shitty Papa John’s pizza is? (And I agree that it is) Making shitty pizza that lots of people willingly scarf down has no relation to being a dick to your workers. Scarfers-down can go to another pizza joint; dicked workers have to go to public assistance.
Citizen Alan
@Full Metal Wingnut:
I’ve had friends and family members who have struggled with drug addiction. I recently attended the funeral of a close family member who quite literally drank himself to death after two failed interventions. None of those people were able to obtain illegal drugs by forcing the immigrant household maid to engage in a felony on their behalf. None of them were arrested and then got off with a slap on the wrist. None of them have devoted the last twenty-plus years to loudly proclaiming the need for harsh drug laws and blaming the problems faced by the African-American community on an inborn predilection for becoming a drug addict.
Ailuridae
@gelfling545:
As a start Martin O’Malley.
Smiling Mortician
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Finally, good news for John McCain.
Citizen Alan
@Mandalay:
Intellectually, I agree with you. My suspicion, however, is that less than 20% of the American people would agree with the statement “flag burning should be constitutionally protected.” She co-sponsored a bill that, if passed, would have been unconstitutional under precedent so clear that even Scalia agrees with it. As an attorney herself, I’m sure she knew perfectly well that the bill would never have passed, would never be enforced, and was presented solely as some red meat for the GOP base and as a trap designed to generate campaign ads attacking the patriotism of anyone who wasn’t on board.
My preference is to judge politicians for the concrete results of laws they pass or seriously attempt to pass, and that provides me with more than enough information without sweating gratuitous gestures and feel-good legislation. YMMV.
FlipYrWhig
@Full Metal Wingnut: it’s virtuous and commendable not to use personal insults in political discussion, but I don’t think wishing for it to stop is going to get anywhere. And I think Chris Christie’s butt is inherently comical. It’s hard to resist. Almost as though it had a gravitational pull.
Another Halocene Human
@jonst: Better that he stay in Jersey than go to DC.
The last Dem in charge there was a big old crook, too.
Actually, though, I don’t care who wins… Ex Machina vs. Sandwiches (compassionate sandwiches! Sandy!) has got to be one of the most entertaining political contests I can imagine… superhero mayor vs the foulmouthed kingpin gov? It’s Kingpin/Luther vs. Spidey/The Flash.
Please do this, Cory Booker. Do it for the lulz. Save us from the burning building of political boredom.
And yes, Newark sucks. Rich, poor, no middle class, no sense of community to make shit better for the working class again. If Booker were capable of changing that he’d be a real hero (maybe even canonizable) instead of playing one on teevee.
karen marie
@jeffreyw: Spaniels?
Another Halocene Human
@Mark S.: God, this is the lulziest news ever. Republicans lost WHITE PEOPLE in those states, in fact, in IA and WI they lost a number of very rural blindingly white counties. I mean, how could that be? The other rural counties that went Dem were in the Black Belt and along the MS river (in a few years, the “solid south” will not be, hehe).
Look out, GOP, somehow, somewhere, there are rubes (and boyo, NH voters are some of the rubeyest) who are not spooning up your shit like it’s redeye gravy at the last diner on earth.
lacp
@Another Halocene Human: Agree on the entertainment value: Chubs vs. The Manhattan Institute Democrat would/will be fascinating. Unless you actually live in NJ.
Another Halocene Human
@Yastreblyansky: You think he looks angry in that photo? SMH.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ted & Hellen:
Since it’s Cole’s fucking blog, I guess it can fucking be any fucking kind of blog he fucking wants it to be. Me, I enjoy the personal issues, pets and food threads, and tolerate the sports discussions. If I’m not interested, I move on.
Your criticism of John reminds me of the old joke: “The food here is terrible.” “Yes, and such small portions.”
Seriously, Derf/Spatula/Taco/UnrealityCheck: if you genuinely want to improve the discourse to your own high standards, why not try taking advantage of the next open thread to share an anecdote or insight or topic for discussion instead of derailing every conversation by bitching about how the owner and his tenants and guests have just totally trashed the place. I’m serious, what possible pleasure do you derive from being so fucking negative all the time?
Another Halocene Human
@gene108: As a fat man, I find the implication of being fat with some sort of moral impropriety to be rude, at best and insulting at worst.
It’s a holdover from when food shortages were frequent and inequality was severe.
The US gov subsidizes basic calorie requirements big time to keep our economy stable (we’re a huge grain exporter and this is part of our continued prosperity, not simply bigness or whatever fairy dust most Americans think of when they occasionally wonder why other countries’ recessions are worse) and to keep the rabble from taking up pitchforks. Many American elites traditionally identified with the white Russians (most don’t realize we lost more soldiers fighting the Reds in the 1920s than in WWI proper) and are well aware that what brought that regime down was lack of bread. Btw, lack of bread was the result of the USA dumping cheap grain on the market and totally kicking the floor out of grain prices for Russian and Ukrainian farmers. The Russian government blamed the J0000000z and inspired the pogroms but that was only a temporary diversion which did not save them.
In the present, fatness is associated with poverty in the United States. This explains the continued animosity with social sanction because it’s always in fashion to kick down on the lower classes. The frisson of moral superiority is simply irresistible. Old trope; new reason.
Ben Franklin
Good tampdown, walkback, or whatever…
Another Halocene Human
@Mandalay: Yup. And there are many other examples. Hilary is great at State but you want a conservative at State. Didn’t like her as a senator and defs didn’t want her as the Dem candidate for POTUS.
I guess that makes me an OBot.
I voted for Bill Bradley, also, too.
Mandalay
@Citizen Alan:
OK, but did she actually believe in the flag burning legislation she drafted or not? Either way she looks really bad in my eyes, regardless of her motivation(s).
But with your approach it is irrelevant anyway, since you prefer to consider “laws they pass or seriously attempt to pass”. By that argument we might have voted for Romney based on his healthcare legislation in MA.
Another Halocene Human
@Maude: I would only want B00ker in the Senate if we had a Democratic House. Otherwise, shit happens during reconciliation. Knifing labor in the back kind of shit.
Another Halocene Human
@Full Metal Wingnut: Yeah? What about those of us who remember the 1990s and were NEVER in her camp?
She lost in 2008. A lot of her strength was with geriatric Dem voters. A lot of them are dead now.
The Dems would have to have a very weak field indeed to make her the frontrunner.
Ben Franklin
Hillary couldn’t help but be conservative @ State. Obstructionist Congress, and all that rot……..
Another Halocene Human
@Full Metal Wingnut: Whoa, whoa, mocking addiction is monstrous?
So, like, those kids in high school who wore “Only users luse drugs” were little Pol Pots? “I’m not as think as I drunk I am” = worse than My Lai.
Mocking addicts is cruel. Mocking addiction? Sometimes humor and a dose of reality is how human beings cope.
Another Halocene Human
@lacp: It’s taking the piss out of him. Which I suppose is part of the notion in making personal attacks on Rush.
It comes off odds these days, however, since the accusations are all old. The new hotness is that everyone finally agrees that his rampant misogyny is vile (this assuredly did not used to be the case, even after Doonesbury did that devastating Limbaugh Facts series of strips where Limbaugh kept hammering his totally scientific point that boob size is inversely related to IQ) and that he is bankrupting his bankrupt employer with lucrative contractual arrangements based on baked listener numbers.
Limbaugh is a moocher who needs to be ‘rightsized’. Think about that every time a right wing screamer starts in on public employee pensions.
Mandalay
@SiubhanDuinne:
A great question! This is an internet phenomenon that continues to amaze me. People posting just to be nasty and insult, without qualification or explanation.
I do not mean disagreeing with someone else,and arguing about it. I mean the desire to just to rain on someone else’s parade, and nothing more; the sneer, the snark or the abuse, without further qualification.
Like you say, what possible pleasure do people derive from being so fucking negative all the time?
Another Halocene Human
@Ben Franklin: Please unpack this.
Hilary was liberal on the issues she wanted to be liberal on–women’s rights and reproductive freedom. She’s been a really great advocate there.
I don’t have a problem with her overall conservative approach (note: no relationship to neo-conservative) because I think that builds confidence and trust with often very conservative (on the state level) allies and even non-allies.
She’s a great fit for the job but I would never want her near domestic legislation.
Ben Franklin
@Another Halocene Human:
Please unpack this.
Reiterating your opinion of the need for conservative FP, as a feature, rather than a bug.
Observing American Blogs, generally highlights my frustration with our ethnocentrism, and international myopia.
Or did I pack it, again?
Ted & Hellen
@Mandalay:
These days I’d guess 80% of front page posts here are extremely negative snark and attacks on the right wing or insufficiently Obotic segments of the left…so what’s your point?
BJ Obots ONLY notice negativity when it is directed at THEM. Otherwise, it’s all good.
Lojasmo
@jonst:
Did you even read the article? Those guys are lucky they left the room with intact skulls.
Lojasmo
@jonst:
Did you even read the article? Those guys are lucky they left the room with intact skulls.@Joel:
I agree with this, Joel. I could not stand Clinton in 2008 (avowed obot) and thought she couldn’t win the general. I do now support her for 2016 (unless Franken throws his hat in the ring)
Lojasmo
@Citizen Alan:
Al Franken has now been a senator for a longer time than Obama had been at the time of his presidential campaign announcement. Franken is far to the left of Clinton.
Humble Lurker
@Ted & Hellen:
Ah, so THAT’s your problem with this blog. Too many N-clangs. I’ll be saving this quote for later, like the one with you defending Sandusky.
Robert P.
@Another Halocene Human:
” Many American elites traditionally identified with the white Russians (most don’t realize we lost more soldiers fighting the Reds in the 1920s than in WWI proper)”
You wouldn’t happen to be using Megan McCardle’s calculator, by any chance? US military deaths in WWI were about 117,000. That’s about 10 times the size of the entire American Expeditionary force in the Russian Civil War. US military deaths latter were at most a few hundred.
jonst
@Lojasmo: Listen Clinton Supporter….you can write the sentence 10 times on the board, instead of 2 times…and it still makes little sense. Who are “those guys” and “they”? Who the F are you referring to? One could guess I suppose…but it might help to be a little clearer. But, ok, guessing, lets assume we know who you are referring to, what is the meaning of “lucky to have left the room with their skulls intact”? Is that supposed to be a good thing? A generous thing? A bad thing? Are we to be grateful (to someone) that (someone) did not impact the skulls of (someone)? Is this a good sign about Newark? A bad sign? Good Booker supporters? Bad Booker supporters? Next time try and put a little thought into it. It helps in a discussion.
Yastreblyansky
@Another Halocene Human: Maybe hanging out with a very small child: “Uncle Corey, make an angry face!”