Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Let there be snark.

Republicans in disarray!

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

When I was faster i was always behind.

Giving up is unforgivable.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

There are times when telling just part of the truth is effectively a lie.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

People are weird.

You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Gun nuts / I Wish That I Knew What It’s Like to Be Free

I Wish That I Knew What It’s Like to Be Free

by | 181 Comments

This post is in: 

Reader J tipped me off to the Citadel, a (proposed) walled community in Idaho, sponsored by a gun company.

The Citadel is not profit-driven. The Citadel is Liberty-driven: specifically Thomas Jefferson’s Rightful Liberty.

Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred lifestyles.

The “Patriot Agreement” which all residents must sign is pretty focused on one thing:

Two: Every able-bodied Patriot aged 13 and older governed by this Agreement shall annually demonstrate proficiency with the rifle of his/her choice by hitting a man-sized steel target at 100 yards with open sights at the Citadel range. Each Resident shall have 10 shots and must hit the target at least 7 times.

Three: Every able-bodied Patriot aged 13 and older governed by this Agreement shall annually demonstrate proficiency with a handgun of choice by hitting a man-sized steel target at 25 yards with open sights at the Citadel range. Each Resident shall have 10 shots and must hit the target at least 7 times.

Four: Every able-bodied Patriot of age within the Citadel will maintain one AR15 variant in 5.56mm NATO, at least 5 magazines and 1,000 rounds of ammunition. The responsibility for maintaining functional arms and ammunition levels for every member of the household shall fall to the head of household. Every able-bodied Patriot will be responsible for maintaining a Tactical Go Bag or Muster Kit to satisfy the Minuteman concept. Details TBD and posted elsewhere.

And there’s this:

Eight: All Patriots, who are of age and are not legally restricted from bearing firearms, shall agree to remain armed with a loaded sidearm whenever visiting the Citadel Town Center. Firearm shall be on-the-person and under the control of the Resident, not merely stored in a vehicle.

It’s not enough to live in a walled community that has locked gates–everyone still has to carry a loaded gun in the public areas. That’s how you know you’re really free.

Reader Interactions

181Comments

  1. 1.

    Wag

    You shall know the Truth, and the Truth will set you freedrive you to despair of your fellow American’s idea of Freedom.

  2. 2.

    anthrosciguy

    As Groucho Marx said, “I wouldn’t belong to any group that’d have me as a member, especially if they were carrying guns.”.

    That last part may have been Zeppo’s.

  3. 3.

    WereBear

    So when Grandma wants to take my toddler to the park, they should go armed?

    If I have only one spare gun because of some unforeseen emergency, who should get it? The baby has keener eyesight, but I expect more responsibility from Grandma…

    I would like these issues clarified before we decide on All Packing, All the Time as our national stance.

  5. 5.

    Schlemizel

    I wonder how they would feel if a large group of dazzling urbanites (to quote Gene Wilder) applied?

    I’m guessing they would not be approved because . . . FREEDUMB!

  6. 6.

    Yutsano

    @WereBear:

    I would like these issues clarified before we decide on All Packing, All the Time as our national stance.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! Oh u funnee! All that matters to these people is I HAZ TEH GUNZ!! The actual rules and constructs for usage is just librul weenie talk.

    @Schlemizel: Or a bunch of blahs or browns. That could indeed get entertaining although I’m sure they’ll want a token of each becuz totes not racist! Why, we have one of each down in the gulch there!

  8. 8.

    tjmn

    Saves the taxpayers the money to fence ’em in. Are these the ones who take pictures with a packing Santa?

  10. 10.

    Feudalism Now!

    You never know if one of your fellow ‘patriots’ is going to use his freedom to impinge yours. You will ensure maximum politeness with a large brandished sidearm. I am comforted in knowing that every Citadel ‘patriot’ is accurate at 25 yards. I don’t know how large the Town Square is but one hopes it is no more than 30 yards wide. Otherwise, I may need to carry my AR-15 or rifle to ensure everyone stays at ‘polite’ distance. Well, at least, 70% polite.

  11. 11.

    c u n d gulag

    I hope these “patriots” also have an air-defense system.

    A few well-placed drones, “AND DOWN GOES CITADEL, DOWN GOES CITADEL!”

    And a few helicopters can finish off the stragglers.

    I’d paint ’em BLACK, just to feck with their little minds one last time, before they’re turned into a bloody mist.

  12. 12.

    Ash Can

    Hopefully the grifters running this scam will abscond with their marks’ money before any ground is broken on this monstrosity, and it never gets any further than these fever dreams. What a shitty thing this would be to do to kids. I know that there are parents out there who are like this, but to bring them all together in one place is just begging for catastrophe.

  15. 15.

    artem1s

    @Valdivia:

    I read somewhere (LGF maybe?) Beck is starting his own Randian community. That too will not end well

    I don’t know, I’m absolutely sure Glenn Beck will make loads of money off of it. Grifters gotta grift.

  16. 16.

    NotMax

    Ah, a government mandate directed to people who oppose government mandates.

    Makes perfect sense.

    Not.

  19. 19.

    Wag

    Will this town have a Stand Your Ground law as well? If so, it provides a laboratory to study the effect on the self defense death rate in a 100% open carry society.

  20. 20.

    BigHank53

    Look, at least they’re proposing some level of required competency with the damn guns, which is a hell of lot more than the NRA ever would. Also….no, that’s the only bright spot.

  22. 22.

    Steve

    If you don’t hit the target enough times, do you get banished or something? This could be a movie script. At least they were kind enough to make their rules gender-neutral.

  24. 24.

    The Red Pen

    1) This was posted on Balloon Juice weeks ago. Does mistermix read this blog?

    2) I’ve been obsessing on these people since they made the blog rounds.

    Remember how when you were a kid and you designed the perfect house? It didn’t have bathrooms or a laundry room, but it did have a waterslide from the heliport down to the underground waterpark. If you’d revisit these any adult, you’d realize that you need bathroom and a laundry room and that people getting off a helicopter won’t be prepared to slide down a waterslide, so you should put a rooftop pool next to the helipad.

    Anyway, these guys are like that execpt grown up and heavily armed. They have childish views about how the real world works, and seem to think that they can build a self-sustaining community where everyone opens some kind of business, steals underpants and… profit!

    Interestingly, besides the gun business they just started, they already have commitments from a beer brewer, a vodka distiller and interest from a guy who wants to make mead.

    So, that means that the Citidel, so far, is going to be loaded with guns and booze. That should work out well.

    If you want to get a quick idea how ridiculous these people are, check out the “concept illustration” at the top of their “housing calculator”: enjoy.

  26. 26.

    debit

    What happens if you’re a really bad shot and can’t hit the target? Are you kicked out? Shunned? Put in the stocks for a good pelting with rotten vegetables and/or pebbles?

  27. 27.

    S-Curve

    Kind of makes me think of the town in “The Walking Dead,” only the zombies are on the inside.

  30. 30.

    Yutsano

    @Valdivia: Goldbugging must not be paying out like it was. Then again grifters are always on the target for new marks. I’m half-surprised he just doesn’t request they sign over their SS checks to him. Cuz, ya know, FREEDUMB!! isn’t free after all.

  32. 32.

    Mr. Longform

    This is great. After they all move in and there aren’t any “undesirables” around to perform criminal acts such as openly carrying skittles, they are going to need to come up with some justifiable reasons to be packing all that heat, so the number of little persnickety laws about fences and barking dogs and parking will grow and they will each be enforceable by individual Patriots with guns. Just try going out with Mayor Bob’s daughter and not getting her home by 10:30.

  33. 33.

    RSA

    @The Red Pen:

    If you want to get a quick idea how ridiculous these people are, check out the “concept illustration” at the top of their “housing calculator”: enjoy.

    Castle battlements? Hilarious. They’re prepared for a siege carried out against them with medieval weaponry.

  34. 34.

    jprfrog

    The most feared German army unit on the Western Front in WWII was the Hitler-Youth division. They were essentially teen-agers armed with Tiger tanks.

    I can imagine teen-agers in the Town Center doing what teen-agers sometimes do: getting into stupid fights. But this time not with fists, but with Bushmasters. It would make the shootout at the OK Corral look like, well, a tea party.

    To plagiarize a former President: “Bring it on!” A few less crazy gun nuts for the rest of us to deal with.

  36. 36.

    Judge Crater

    These “Citadels” are really theme parks for the 27 percent who have been frightened out of their minds by FOX News and right-wing paranoia. No “gun free zones” allowed.

    Disneyland was about fairy castles and funny animals – this is about fear and desperate last stands.

  38. 38.

    gypsy howell

    even better, they require NO BACKGROUND CHECKS! What could go wrong?

    At least they’ll all be in one place. I do feel sorry for the kids, who have no choice in the matter. Oh well, kids born in Somalia have no choice in the matter either.

  39. 39.

    amk

    I love the idea. At least, these whackos will be corralled in their own camps and will stop being a public menace.

  40. 40.

    s d keough

    Eight: All Patriots, who are of age and are not legally restricted from bearing firearms, shall agree to remain armed

    what would be a legal restriction in a community based to protect the right to bear arms?

  42. 42.

    daveNYC

    So 7 out of 10 shots on target at 300 feet for a rifle and 75 feet for a pistol, and all that starting at age 13 (right after the Bar Mitzvah I guess). Could be just me, but I’m thinking that there will be a lot of people not making the cut.

  45. 45.

    MoZeu

    I prefer to have them in a walled community and could care less what they do as long as they stay behind their walls and let the rest of us get on with actual civilization.

  46. 46.

    Persia

    I can’t imagine wanting to live anywhere that requires me to do that much damn work, frankly.

  47. 47.

    Joey Maloney

    @NotMax: Despite the fortuitous branding, too upscale for this demographic. Wal-mart, Dollar General, and pawn shops. Lots of pawn shops.

  48. 48.

    PaulW

    How free can they be if they’re all walled up?

    In the middle of Idaho?!

    No beaches… no night clubs… no comic book stores… not a single luxury!

  51. 51.

    Steeplejack

    Maybe there could be a helpful link on the right side for “Blogs We Read or at Least Occasionally Scan Because, Oh, Right, I’m a Front-Pager There.” Or maybe a link at the top with an big, eye-catching graphic.

    Just brainstorming here . . .

  52. 52.

    Face

    What happens if the parents pass the shooting test but the 13 year olds dont/cant? Are they going to excommunicate the kids? Are they shamed with dunce caps and orthodonist braces? Are they sacrificed to Lord LaPierre?

  53. 53.

    PurpleGirl

    @NotMax: Not a government. It’s a binding contract, enforced by the polite gun society but it’s not a government. A (fascist) feudal state, maybe, but not a government.

  54. 54.

    NotMax

    OT: I note from their splash screen that World of Warcraft has so far raised $2.3 million for Sandy relief efforts.

    Good on them.

  55. 55.

    snoey

    Why steel targets?

    Did I miss the part about paper being liberal, or are they just looking for a few ricochets to liven things up?

  56. 56.

    g

    Every able-bodied Patriot of age within the Citadel will maintain one AR15 variant in 5.56mm NATO, at least 5 magazines and 1,000 rounds of ammunition.

    Hey, isn’t that an “unfunded mandate” forcing citizens to purchase something, kind of like forcing citizens to purchase health insurance? Tyranny!

  57. 57.

    henrythefifth

    I hope they will hold true to their beliefs and condemn all local, state and federal government benefits. That would include, but is not limited to, getting their own water, no roads, sewers, traffic systems, etc., funded in any part by any governmental entity. No post office, so no mail but for private shipping. Also, no Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, or Veterans benefits (health and monetary) of any kind. I’m also sure they will do their homework and not purchase any foodstuffs or other agricultural products that are part of any government subsidy program (good luck with that!). You know, all that stuff. I’m sure these bastions of virtue will uphold these types of principles. Or not.

    Also, if someone misses the target at 100 yards during their annual review, are they kicked out of the compound? They might be the lucky ones.

  58. 58.

    sherparick

    @Ash Can: “No More Mr. Nice Blog” has more on th is particular grifter (and convicted felon) behind this grift. http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/

    Fox itself is the ultimate grift and I almost feel sorry for the 27% who are sucked into that universe, except for the fact they pose a potent threat to the rest of us.

    David Keen was on CNN yesterday actually soliciting the gun manufactuers and wholesale business community to pony up to support the NRA in the upcoming “fight” against the Kenyan Usurper.

  59. 59.

    Scott S.

    I fully support projects like the Citadel, Beck’s Randian community, and floating libertarian islands. It’s what they call a target-rich environment.

  60. 60.

    g

    @tjmn: Saves the taxpayers the money to fence ‘em in.

    Oh, no. Their proposal also states that they are a completely walled community with only one entry-exit gate.

    That’ll work well during high fire season in Idaho. All that ordinance will go off real fast under wildfire conditions.

  61. 61.

    Hmmmm...

    Wow, secondhand smoke is bad enough for your health, but secondhand bullets…?

    The only good news is that given enough time, these wackos may all eventually shoot one another.

  62. 62.

    NotMax

    @PurpleGirl

    In the sense of a duly elected representative body, no. However…

    It’s a governing body whose dictates apply to all who reside there (including those born there and children who are too young to legally sign and be held to a contract).

  64. 64.

    ET

    Obviously they are so scared of each other that they feel the need to make people carry firearms.

    I just hope the regulate beer – particularly during football season or at least make sure that all the indoctrinated are football team compatible because I can just seeing this situation go to hell in a hand-basket when drunk football fans get together and arguing.

  65. 65.

    peach flavored shampoo

    What are the Vegas odds that this encampement will be 100.00% white? Even odds? 2:1? Does their charter even lay out what happens if a blah attempts to move in? Do all the other residents quickly move to the other side of the fence, to “save their property values”?

  66. 66.

    Mike in NC

    I keep writing this because it’s true: never met anybody from Idaho who wasn’t a despicable piece of shit. YMMV

  67. 67.

    g

    What’s really hilarious is that, since they are already going to be so isolated geographically, they are arming themselves to defend themselves against one another. There won’t be anybody else at their Town Hall meetings except community members.

  69. 69.

    prufrock

    Four: Every able-bodied Patriot of age within the Citadel will maintain one AR15 variant in 5.56mm NATO, at least 5 magazines and 1,000 rounds of ammunition.

    I don’t want to spend the rest of my life/looking down the barrel of an Armalite

    Btw, anyone else notice that the same people who insist that everyone over thirteen own a Bushmaster also insist that a Bushmaster isn’t an assault rifle?

    Right.

  70. 70.

    artem1s

    @The Red Pen:

    If you want to get a quick idea how ridiculous these people are, check out the “concept illustration” at the top of their “housing calculator”.

    OMG. This reads like the user manual for every MMORPG I have ever wasted a Sunday afternoon on. And just like them, everyone is going to want to be the sheriff and no one is going to want to be the baker or anything perceived as menial or weak.

    I found the FAQs section on why they would succeed, when everyone else had failed such attempts, was especially entertaining. Also, the concept of making it a theme park destination point. I’m seeing Mickey and Minnie with matching bandoleros and assault rifles.

  74. 74.

    hep kitty

    I don’t mean to be a nag, but the jobs thread got taken over by the football ppl. I think it would be best to separate those 2 threads in the future.

    Nobody is going to want to share their stories in the middle of a football thread and the football ppl are high-fiving each other, and are going to ignore anything that doesn’t have to do with football.

    Please, if you can, post another jobs thread for these folks.

    John doesn’t even understand what a jobs thread is doing on his blog, but I guess that’s because he’s employed. However, a lot of our readers are not and need to network, make contacts and share info.

    I hope fp’rs can please try to understand how devastating it is to be unemployed and how much support these folks need. I believe many are reluctant to share their stories here and need encouragement. Please help them.

    Thanks for your understanding!

  75. 75.

    hep kitty

    I don’t mean to be a nag, but the jobs thread got taken over by the football ppl. I think it would be best to separate those 2 threads in the future.

    Nobody is going to want to share their stories in the middle of a football thread and the football ppl are high-fiving each other, and are going to ignore anything that doesn’t have to do with football.

    Please, if you can, post another jobs thread for these folks.

    John doesn’t even understand “WTF” a jobs thread is or what it’s doing on his blog, but I guess that’s because he’s employed. However, a lot of our readers are not and need to network, make contacts and share info.

    I hope fp’rs can please try to understand how devastating it is to be unemployed and how much support these folks need. I believe many are reluctant to share their stories here and need encouragement. Please help them.

    Thanks for your understanding!

  78. 78.

    gbear

    @Steve:
    I’ve been wondering the same thing. What happens to a 13 year old who can’t get the hang of shooting a gun (or fails the test on purpose in an effort to escape the village)? Do they get handed a backpack with a week’s worth of food and then get shown the door?

    Kids are going to have to be completely banned from any kind of radio or internet activity or they might discover that there are ways to have fun that don’t involve target practice. This village is going to lose it’s youth appeal faster than fox news.

  79. 79.

    The Red Pen

    @g:

    Every able-bodied Patriot of age within the Citadel will maintain one AR15 variant in 5.56mm NATO, at least 5 magazines and 1,000 rounds of ammunition.

    Hey, isn’t that an “unfunded mandate” forcing citizens to purchase something, kind of like forcing citizens to purchase health insurance? Tyranny!

    It will not surprise you to learn that these are exactly the items for sale from the III Arms company. The III Arms company is started by the same people with the intention of creating an economic base for the project. The reception from gun nuts has been pretty cold so far.

  80. 80.

    ursine

    Interesting that the age of adulthood here (i.e. shooting prowess)is 13. Very biblical. Will they start having bar mitzvah like ceremonies? The young person is called to the range, shoots, then there’s a party with a DJ? Although in Idahao it would probably be called a barn-mitzvah

  82. 82.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Actually, this is the first of Obama’s re-education camps. He was clever enough to get people to want to relocate there voluntarily.

  84. 84.

    CaseyL

    You know, this is exactly the fantasy I’ve had about these whack jobs for lo these many years: move ’em all to a walled compound, give them all the guns they want, and then walk away.

    If I had a extra few million bucks, this is exactly the kind of scam planned community I’d put together and sell to said whack jobs.

    Are we absolutely sure the founders/funders/whatever aren’t completely sane in a cold and efficient fashion? That isolating RW gun nuts in an environment guaranteed to have them all dead or dying within 5 years isn’t exactly the point?

  86. 86.

    Tokyokie

    I was planning to move the spousal unit and cats to the Citadel until I learned that it requires I own and maintain a rifle that uses pussified 5.56mm ammo instead of more manly man 7.62mm.

  87. 87.

    Mike Lamb

    This is one heckuva false flag operation that Obama is running. Getting all the gun nuts to voluntarily move into a walled compound so we know where to get them? Genius!

  88. 88.

    candideinnc

    I anticipate a shootout at the locaol saloon one night. Incidentally, do they get to pack weapons in the local bank? That should be fun to watch.

  89. 89.

    candideinnc

    I anticipate a shootout at the locaol saloon one night. Incidentally, do they get to pack weapons in the local bank? That should be fun to watch.

  90. 90.

    Lolly

    @c u n d gulag:

    Eh, why should anybody waste the time and resources getting rid of them? A bunch of armed-to-the-teeth, angry, paranoid folks like this thrown together will eventually kill themselves off.

  92. 92.

    Glen Tomkins

    These rules that this Citadel has set up are so obviously such a great idea for right-wing communities to adopt, that I propose we extend the benefits of their wisdom to a broader playing field.

    I propose that the next Republican National Convention adopt these rules and apply them to everybody as a condition for being allowed on the convention floor. That RNC would be the most absolutely secure such convention this nation has ever seen, at least against violence from outsiders. And when it was all over, after the smoke finally cleared and all the bodies were policed up, then at last maybe we’ld have some peace and quiet in this country.

  93. 93.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    After they get this thing built and “manned”, we should send the Lord Humongous, yunno the Ayatolllah of Rock and Rolla with his minions to continually circle the place.

    Just to mess with their minds.

  97. 97.

    Ed in NJ

    I’d love to see them build this just so I could drop a few firecrackers on them to see what would happen.

  98. 98.

    Patricia Kayden

    @peach flavored shampoo: I would think that minorities would feel uncomfortable around a group of heavily armed, ultra paranoid White folks — especially with a Kenyan Muslim in the White House. I know I would be.

  99. 99.

    Helen Bedd

    “Liberty” apparently got redefined as following a ton of arbitrary rules at the same time all the time.

    PS
    “Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology …”

    Think the definition of ideology has slid all the way across the Overton window…

  100. 100.

    Trakker

    Isn’t it telling that best armed community in America insists that visitors be ARMED when they visit? It’s almost like they know what happens in a community where everyone is armed and admit that for your own protection you must be armed when visiting, ’cause, you know…

  101. 101.

    bemused

    Great letter to MN Star Tribune the other day from a 61 year old, lifelong duck hunter.

    “NRA-sanctioned federal law requires that duck hunters must put in what is called a ‘plug’ to drop the capacity of their guns to three shells. In my decades of hunting, I’ve never heard a single person whine about this restriction. So, Congress, I demand as much protection as a sitting duck.”

  103. 103.

    WaterGirl

    @The Red Pen: @Punchy: Geez, did you guys wake up cranky this morning?

    Gee, two weeks ago. Let’s see, that’s right around the holidays. No traveling, no company, no distractions. So why the hell didn’t mistermix read every single post that week?

    I demand an answer!!!

  104. 104.

    Tone in DC

    Why does this Citadel stuff bring 1993 and Waco to my mind?

    Teh st00pid and teh crazed all in one place and strapped like nobody’s business. I don’t even want the airlines flying over that place.

  105. 105.

    jim filyaw

    what has happened to the state that once sent frank church to the u.s. senate? nowadays it seems to draw lunatics like shit draws flies. i wonder if they will permit the communistic u.s. post office mailmen in long enough to drop off those socialistic social security checks.

  106. 106.

    nemesis

    I completed an application form.

    My wifes name was Shaquinta. My adopted kids were Joachim and Donnell. The application is hilarious, since it makes clear racists are not allowed. Riiiight.

    The folks “planning” The Great Elderly Caucasian Paranoid Deluded Survivalist Enclave Know as Citadel have exactly zero plans on the books for power generation and water use. Its all “Were looking into…” doing this or that. Its a fevered dream of some clowns who, well, you know the drill.

    My suggestion is that BJers visit the site and post on their “blag”. Good times.

    Oh, no police force is needed apparently. So I suggested that all disagreements be settled by duels in the town square.

  107. 107.

    Petorado

    @ET:

    That really struck me as well. Why in a community full of true believers, where everyone must pass strict purity tests, would they all have to be packing so much heat when the only people they will be around will be fellow cult members? But then it dawned on me that this is like a nudist colony for gun nuts: they all get to strut around looking at the size of each other’s pieces. These folks are just wanting to openly get their fetish on.

  108. 108.

    elmo

    @Mike in NC:

    MMV. One of my dearest friends is from Sandpoint. He’s now living in New Zealand, where he married his longtime partner.

    I said he was *from* Sandpoint, not that he still lived there.

  111. 111.

    Scamp Dog

    @The Red Pen: I like how the towers, meant to provide a strong defense, have apartment balconies. I suppose that the well-armed patriots in residence will provide a strong defense, being bullet-proof and invulnerable to tear gas, smoke grenades and the like.

  113. 113.

    JCT

    @PeakVT:
    @Mike Lamb:

    The amazing thing is that it would probably take about 5 mins at most to find serious discussions about either of your comments in the fever pit of the right wing on the intertubes at present.

    They are losing their collective shit and it is hilarious.

  114. 114.

    vtr

    I haven’t seen the entire brochure, but somewhere in it there must be an complete explanation of The Citadel’s not-for-profit system of goods and services exchange – one that would leave a Marxist uncomfortable.

  115. 115.

    Dave

    Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man.
    General George Patton (the fellow who specialized in driving over, around, and through fixed fortifications)

  117. 117.

    Origuy

    @Mike in NC:

    never met anybody from Idaho who wasn’t a despicable piece of shit. YMMV

    I know a guy who was born and raised in Coeur d’Alene, nicest guy you’d want to meet. However, he went to Stanford and lived in California most of his adult life.

  118. 118.

    xpara

    Seems to me that Jim Jones and David Koresh–two grifters who took their messenger of god schtick to predictably paranoid lengths– have already tried this. This fatal nonsense, however , is even more cynical, being justified not even by nutty theology (is that a tautology?) but by plain old greed. Maybe they can name the exit gate “The Eye of the Needle” through which the grifters-in-chief can attempt to exit on their way to visit their Cayman bank accounts when the all-to-predictable apocalypse overwhelms the surviving poor proles they have conned outof their life savings finally get a clue.

  119. 119.

    Death Panel Truck

    From the Citadel website:

    “Each neighborhood will have similar housing for visual uniformity and aesthetic appeal.”

    Well, that’s one violation of freedumb already. Residents can’t build homes to their own specifications.

  120. 120.

    nemesis

    Although there claims to be no down payment, no credit checks, etc. the cost of living INSIDE the wall (why go there unless you could be afforded maximum protection from the outside world?) is easily $1,000/month. Well beyond the income level of most true believers. Jobs are to be created to meet the needs of the community. Sounds solid.

    This appears to be the latest grift, with beKKK joining in the fracas. Expect to hear much more about other communities along the same lines. Doubt any will be completed in my lifetime. Fun to point at and laugh though.

  121. 121.

    Mike Toreno

    How is living in Idaho, or any other low-population western state whose economy depends on federal handouts and use of federal land, incompatible with socialism?

  122. 122.

    The Red Pen

    @J:

    How are these people supposed to make a living in their nut house?

    They are going to start shops selling crafts. They are currently planning to locate in Benewah County Idaho, where there are less than 10,000 people spread out over about 800 square miles (about 12ppl/sq. mi).

    Not a lot of foot traffic.

  123. 123.

    Jay in Oregon

    @tjmn:

    Saves the taxpayers the money to fence ‘em in.

    Bonus points if the Obama administration places a sign on the road leading to the Citadel with “FEMA Re-Education Camp IDA-001 — 10 miles” on it.

  124. 124.

    Death Panel Truck

    @Mike in NC: I lived in southwest Idaho for five years, and I made lots of friends. Try visiting the state instead of disparaging an entire group of people you’ve never met. They’re not all right-wing nutjobs.

    Or keep relying on anecdotal evidence that confirms your biases. I don’t give a fuck.

  125. 125.

    scav

    The Citadel is not profit-driven. The Citadel is Liberty-driven

    Isn’t it right about here where you start counting the spoons faster?

  126. 126.

    Death Panel Truck

    @Mike Toreno: The cattle and sheep ranchers in SW Idaho have been grazing their animals on public lands for decades, and pay next to nothing for the privilege. When the BLM comes in and tells them they need to take better care of their over-grazed allotments, the ranchers complain about the evil gubmint taking away their rights.

    They don’t know from socializm. It’s just a handy catchphrase to them.

  127. 127.

    NotMax

    Sarah Palin was born in Idaho.

    Maybe she can be convinced to come back and spend a half term as gauleiter mayor.

  128. 128.

    Joey Maloney

    You know, it occurs to me that there already is a place in the USA where a large proportion of the residents live “off the grid” – generating their own electricity, drawing their own water and managing their own sewage, etc., without public utilities, building their own homes (often literally, with their own two hands) in remote locations, and often supporting themselves by activities which the eeeevil Federal Government considers criminal.

    It’s called “Hawaii”.

  130. 130.

    Nerull

    @BigHank53: I was raised around guns. I was taught to respect guns. A large part of that was never loading a gun you didn’t plan to shoot, and never transporting a loaded guns. These people have a gun fetish, and do not respect them. Someone is going to get hurt.

  132. 132.

    Death Panel Truck

    “Additionally, we plan on forming our own bank that will issue Citadel coins in silver and gold.”

    I’d like to see them try to pay federal taxes with that funny money. Or are they going to declare the Citadel a sovereign nation unanswerable to the federal government? Good luck with that.

  133. 133.

    MCA1

    I just love this, and I don’t care that we had a post on it last month, too. We should discuss the Citadel every month, for the fun of it.

    Additional thoughts:

    – In addition to the obvious idiocy of having everyone walk around armed, personal experience tells me that the people attracted to this kind of place are significantly more (a) put upon and whiny, (b) hair-triggered with their anger, (c) downright litigious, and (d) incapable of solving problems with intellect than the population at large. So not only do you have the escalation problem of the guns themselves, you have escalated personalities. Brilliant. To the extent they’re not shooting each other, they’ll be suing each other constantly, to our ironic delight.

    – What about visitors? Do they have to pack? What happens the first time a visitor is involved in a gun incident? Obviously, no one’s going to be a “tourist” to this place who doesn’t intend to bring their own heat to brandish while walking around. No way distrust doesn’t grow between the “members” and the others.

    – I love that they’re stratifying themselves by selling land and homes both inside and outside the wall. Nothing spells utopia more than creating a layer of economic stratification and resentment right off the bat. I’m sure no conflicts will arise between these factions.

    – It is inevitable that this experiment will end Ruby Ridge style long before it can collapse on its own. Because someone there will break a state or federal law (probably relating to tax, if not assault or murder) within the first year, and law enforcement will probably refuse to go in and arrest someone in a fortified compound. So when the community refuses to give that offender up and hand them over to governmental authorities, and those authorities cannot very well allow a private group of people to flout their jurisdiction…well, it’s all over then, isn’t it? You’ve now got a secessionist group about to be embargoed within its walls, with all utility services cut. I imagine trying to craft the bylaws of the Citadel, including some sort of explicit acknowledgment of actual governmental authority and requiring that the Citadel elders turn over anyone suspected of a crime to the police upon demand. That’ll go over well.

    – We could get a whole new genre of films coming out of this sort of experiment, depicting what it’s like for a youth who moves out at 18 to join the big, bad world. It’d be like a cross between an Amish coming of age movie and The Village.

  134. 134.

    scav

    @Death Panel Truck: if they go sovereign,don’t they have to convince a lot more people they’re sane? What if like Depardieu, they’re forced by their snit into the arms of Putin? Oh, I am not so good as to deserve that.

  136. 136.

    pseudonymous in nc

    I’m completely happy for people to engage in voluntary Compound Cosplay. I’d worry about the kids, but you can only do so much to protect them against nutjob parents. As long as the place is locked from the outside.

    But it should be clear that what we’re talking about here is gun cultism.

  138. 138.

    cranky donkey

    I feel for the poor folks of Benewah County. I have a feeling that all they will get out of this is a hideous half finished wall and a bunch of chewed up land.
    And while probably the whole county skews pretty conservative, I have a feeling these guys are going to drive them crazy.

  139. 139.

    Dave N.

    What is with the bug out bag? They are already walling themselves off in an armed compound with like-minded freedumb-lovers. Where are they planning to bug out to?

  141. 141.

    Chris

    @The Red Pen: Rooftop pool is a bad idea. If there are any leaks at all…it’s just a mess. Perhaps there could be some kind of gelatin-coated slide instead. That way, you would just have to towel off on the bottom floor.

  143. 143.

    Brachiator

    I just love this, and I don’t care that we had a post on it last month, too. We should discuss the Citadel every month, for the fun of it.

    So let’s see. These people are building a concentration camp for themselves, arming themselves to the teeth, mandating what housing must look like, and going back to the Gold standard. All in the name of liberty.

    Sweet Jeebus, make it so. I will watch the reality show about these goobers as soon as it is broadcast.

  144. 144.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @Brachiator:

    I will watch the reality show about these goobers as soon as it is broadcast.

    Except that like the Duggar brood, reality show money would just perpetuate this shit.

  145. 145.

    Death Panel Truck

    @scav:

    don’t they have to convince a lot more people they’re sane?

    Yeah, but that would prove a bit problematic.

  146. 146.

    The Red Pen

    @MCA1:

    So not only do you have the escalation problem of the guns themselves…

    A favorite element of this is “13 or older.” Just wait until 13-year-old Suzy dumps 13-year-old Johnny ruining his life forever and leaving him nothing to live for (or vice versa). Columbine will look like a tea dance.

    – What about visitors? Do they have to pack?

    No, visitors are not required to carry firearms. Of course, they can if they want, so a rival gang doesn’t even need a Trojan Horse…

    – I love that they’re stratifying themselves by selling land and homes both inside and outside the wall.

    The idea here is that you can have more land outside than inside, so you might just have a small safe-space inside and have a larger spread outside. Also, they aren’t selling squat inside. You can only lease. Leasing is the only way they can enforce any of their rules. Of course — they haven’t talked to a lawyer about any of this.

    So when the community refuses to give that offender up and hand them over to governmental authorities

    The III Citidel group is visibly law-abiding. They have no quarrel with any government authorities, nor do they want one. As you point out, that doesn’t necessarily apply to the people to whom they lease without a background check. Still, if someone decides it’s the perfect place to set up a meth lab, the III Citadel people would supposedly not have any problem turning them over to the cops.

    @Death Panel Truck:

    I’d like to see them try to pay federal taxes with that funny money. Or are they going to declare the Citadel a sovereign nation unanswerable to the federal government?

    According to them, they want no quarrel with the government. They plan to pay all their taxes and get all their permits and whatnot. The internal coinage is a gold-standard currency to facilitate bartering, which is semi-legal from a tax perspective (you own taxes on the income from bartering, but good luck trying to audit that).

  148. 148.

    Brachiator

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    RE: I will watch the reality show about these goobers as soon as it is broadcast.

    Except that like the Duggar brood, reality show money would just perpetuate this shit.

    I would hope that there would be more mockery than any desire to replicate the experience.

  149. 149.

    Argive

    Yeah, this idea is nuts. From the FAQ section:

    Our effort is based on Rightful Liberty which, as a live-and-let-live philosophy, makes us good neighbors. We feel no need to convert anyone to our way of thinking or try to control anyone else’s behavior, except to the extent needed to defend our Rightful Liberty.

    But the whole firearm possession mandate would seem to be quite hypocritical, in that case.

    Where will their utilities come from? Will they have police/fire departments? How will they deal with sanitation? I notice that they promise everyone a composting toilet, which is nice, but it doesn’t exactly solve the problem of garbage collection. I notice that their map has no hospital or medical clinics, which is another problem (it sure has plenty of guard towers, though). If they don’t provide these services themselves, then they still have to rely on the state and are not self-sufficient.

    Also, the inevitable company town comparison arises when we see that employment will come courtesy of a firearms manufacturer who will set up a factory there. And they’ll still be subject to state and federal laws. Really all they’re doing is establishing a commune where they won’t have to put up with those pesky liberals living next door. So whoever lives at the Citadel is just avoiding people they don’t like while potentially losing many more rights than they think they’re preserving. News flash, guys: you cannot hide from the world.

  151. 151.

    SC

    I’m concerned about their lack of concern for profit. Come on. Shouldn’t they be concerned about profit? What is this? A hippie commune with guns? I understand that they are in a startup phase but surely profit is necessary for, you know, liberty and freedom. How about dueling as a tourist attraction? Perhaps a random drawing from the current applications and weekend duels? I’d pay, oh, a $1 to watch that live on the youtubes and there’s your profit. Yes, it would reduce the pool of potential free Citadel citizens but the survivors would be strong!

  152. 152.

    johnny aquitard

    @daveNYC:

    Could be just me, but I’m thinking that there will be a lot of people not making the cut.

    There will be a lot of ammo expended in getting the skills to make the cut.

    It isn’t only the gun manufacturer who’s grifting here. Whoever’s making the ammo is getting a cut of the action too.

  154. 154.

    Loyal Donegan

    For once I wish these gun nuts would come out and admit the real truth: they like the way their stubby little dicks feel in their hands after they’ve warmed them up firing at targets that they’re pretending are niggers, Mexicans, etc.

  155. 155.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Cris (without an H):

    From the Wikipedia article on “American Redoubt”:

    [The American Redoubt movement] is analogous to the Puritan exodus (from Europe). They couldn’t fit in and said, ‘We’re going to move to completely virgin territory and start afresh.’ …

    Actually, the Puritans were fleeing what they considered to be religious persecution…their problem was not so much being persecuted, as it was not being the persecutors.

    They made up for that once they hit Massachusetts.

  156. 156.

    Another Halocene Human

    @Steve M.:

    Vandeboegh is also the author of a self-published novel, Absolved, in which militia members fight the U.S. government; a member of a Geogia militia group whose alleged terrorist plot was broken up by the government reportedly claimed that Absolved inspired the plot. None of this is ever mentioned on Fox when Vanderboegh appears, as he has repeatedly on the channel, as an expert on the Fast & Furious program.

    Da fuq

  157. 157.

    Another Halocene Human

    Hahahaha, comments at The Blaze are pure fucking comedy gold!

    If you enjoy hunting for mangoes, they are ripe and juicy and in abundance (talking about the link to the story on Beck’s “Independence” from the No Mister Nice Blog link).

  158. 158.

    maurinsky

    They are following the Founding Fathers definition of Liberty, so I guess that means that their women folk won’t be able to vote, and maybe they think they can own slaves?

  160. 160.

    Bubblegum Tate

    @RSA:

    They’re prepared for a siege carried out against them with medieval weaponry.

    Well, now, Lancelot, Galahad, and I wait until nightfall, and then leap out of the rabbit, taking the French wingnuts by surprise.

  161. 161.

    nemesis

    Wow. Ive never been banned so quickly. Citadel wastes no time in silencing opposing voices. Guess convicted extortionists need to maintain their annonymity.

  162. 162.

    scav

    @The Red Pen: Oh shit those castle turret’s need a barrel-rolling gorilla in them stat! And their “micosuites” for when “SHTF” come with communal cooking facilities and toilets. Bodily functions go Marxist in foxholes, I guess.

  163. 163.

    scav

    @nemesis: Only online if they do what’s on the tin

    Remember, your home requires zero down payment, zero interest, no background check and no credit check… and your Lease is for Life.

  165. 165.

    Don

    …and of *course* it makes sense that they’re using a photo of Battle Abbey (think Battle of Hastings) in their literature. Bring back Feudalism!

  167. 167.

    Red_cted

    @Robin G.: Nothing to worry about. The entire concept is a huge grift and any investors will lose whatever money they pay to buy whatever deal is offered.

  168. 168.

    Quaker in a Basement

    This is the WORST vacation brochure I’ve ever seen. Could I see something in a tropical beach getaway instead?

  170. 170.

    Face

    The housing calculator only has a $14/month difference between me choosing a half-acre and full-acre of land inside the walls. Really, ~$200/yr is all the difference to double my land amount? Is shit really that cheap in ID?

    @The Red Pen — holy shit….they have an inner AND outer wall? WTF?

  172. 172.

    The Red Pen

    @Face:

    holy shit….they have an inner AND outer wall? WTF?

    If you recall the attack on Helm’s Deep in the Lord of the Rings movie, you can see the advantage to having an outer and inner wall. Basically, you don’t want the bad guys to get up to your main wall without having to climb over the outer wall and cross a shooting gallery.

  173. 173.

    Wat

    Funny – I seem to recall reading (either here or elsewhere) that troops in a FOB carry *unloaded* weapons (with ammo at hand) on base.

    In other words, “The Citadel” is operating under a level of apparent alert *higher* than soldiers in an actual war zone. Paranoid much?

    BTW, they’ve also SCRUBBED their site: here’s some reporting on the old version:

    http://wonkette.com/491419/live-work-and-play-in-new-development-for-you-and-all-your-idaho-militia-friends

    Somehow, the idea that screeching about “LIBERTY” while simultaneously banning “Liberals” finally registered as nonsense, even to wingnuts…

  175. 175.

    Alan in SF

    @RSA: Their battlements will make a formidable and intimidating defense, as long as they have enough umlauts in their logo.

  176. 176.

    Nylund

    So what happens if your 13 year old kid can’t pass the shooting test? Do you throw your kid over the wall like ancient Sparta?

  179. 179.

    docroc

    @J: They can collect tourism dollars from people watching in fascinated horror at their antics. Maybe some cross-marketing with that creationist museum in Kentucky (or wherever the hell it is)

  180. 180.

    tensor

    It’s a confidence game, a floor topping, a dessert wax, and survivalist nut-job-ism, all in one!

    From the (Storm?) front page:

    “Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred lifestyles.”

    From the FAQ:

    “This is a consensus effort by a dedicated group of individuals working toward a common goal.”

    Well, that should be just a hell-upon-Gaia’s-green-earth for lefty liberals, for whom working toward a common good would constitute the most unfamiliar and threatening environment imaginable. On the other hand, for National Redoubt-bound, gun-toting nut-cases, collaborative consensus-building is the closest thing to Heaven.

    Anyone going to auction off the half-built castle walls after the shooting stops? (Yeah, assumes facts not in evidence, like this being something other than a quick scam. The $33 “administrative fee” that a bunch of VOLUNTEERS charge being only one of many obvious “tells”.)

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