Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Come on, man.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

Optimism opens the door to great things.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

We still have time to mess this up!

Consistently wrong since 2002

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / So Long and Thanks for All the Fish

Reader Interactions

90Comments

  1. 1.

    Ben Franklin

    Open thread?

    MARTIN SMITH: You gave a speech before the New York Bar Association. And in that speech, you made a reference to losing sleep at night, worrying about what a lawsuit might result in at a large financial institution.

    LANNY BREUER: Right.

    MARTIN SMITH: Is that really the job of a prosecutor, to worry about anything other than simply pursuing justice?

    LANNY BREUER: Well, I think I am pursuing justice. And I think the entire responsibility of the department is to pursue justice. But in any given case, I think I and prosecutors around the country, being responsible, should speak to regulators, should speak to experts, because if I bring a case against institution A, and as a result of bringing that case, there’s some huge economic effect — if it creates a ripple effect so that suddenly, counterparties and other financial institutions or other companies that had nothing to do with this are affected badly — it’s a factor we need to know and understand.

    ———–

    In other words, no criminal charges can be levied against anyone who engaged in the crimes leading to the great financial crisis of 2008 because, get this, the implications of pursuing justice may have destabilizing implications!

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-23/assistant-attorney-general-admits-tv-us-justice-does-not-apply-banks

    Until we get the fucking money out, we will continue to get these results. Aaron Swarz cost somebody a lot of money; ergo JUSTICE.

  6. 6.

    Tomolitics

    Just don’t eat dolphin…or tuna…or any kind of line or net caught ocean fish. Pork, beef & chicken–still dolphin-safe, my man!

  7. 7.

    Brent

    @Shakespeare: Dolphin caught in a fishing line actually solicits a diver for help, responds to the diver’s gestures to come over, positions itself so that the diver can best cut the fishing wire away going up for air and coming back at least once in this process.

  8. 8.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    Vegetarian to avoid animal cruelty is a fine motivation. If that doesn’t sell you on it, the massively lower environmental impact could well help, a million chip-on-the-shoulder snotty articles about how local beef is greener than imported quinoa notwithstanding.

    And if that fails, there are the health benefits, which I’ll admit is my main motive (I’ve now controlled my cholesterol through lifestyle alone, and I had been on statins) though the cruelty angle is second.

  11. 11.

    Unabogie

    @Xecky Gilchrist:

    I have been vegetarian for 13 years. Let me agree, not only is it an ethical way to eat, but you’re healthier for it.

    An animal lover like you, Cole? Why would you love some animals but eat others?

  16. 16.

    Fwiffo

    It’s a cool video, but I’m not overwhelmingly surprised. Examples of dolphins coming to the aid of people (and other animals) are pretty well documented, so I don’t see why the reverse should be too surprising.

    You wouldn’t be surprised to see a domesticated animal like a dog or cat (or horse, or rat or anything) come to their owner for help (or again, the reverse – dogs save people all the time, even ones that aren’t specially trained.) I’d bet the dolphin had interacted with people before and managed to put two and two together. They are pretty clever, after all.

  17. 17.

    ? Martin

    And once again I’m thankful that I only eat kittens and the occasional panda (on holidays).

  19. 19.

    Hillary Rettig

    John it makes total sense that a big smooch/animal lover like yourself would go veg. It would rock many of our worlds. Please go for at least partial vegan because dairy and eggs are filled with cruelty.

    If you want suggestions re books, guides, recipes, etc., just ask!

  20. 20.

    Mnemosyne

    For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

    — Douglas Adams

  21. 21.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    @Hillary Rettig: Please go for at least partial vegan because dairy and eggs are filled with cruelty.

    Second this. I don’t use eggs often, but when I do I get them from my friend who raises chickens in her backyard. Dairy I’m still working on, and finding the easiest way to reduce it is just turn to cuisines that don’t use much, like Indian, subbing oil for the ghee.

  22. 22.

    Gwiwer

    We really don’t give animals enough credit. The thing that got me to become vegetarian was my hermit crabs oddly enough. I’ve owned 5 of them over the past 20 years and have been constantly amazed at how unique they all were. Each one had its own distinct personality along with its own individual likes and dislikes. Even when they changed shells, I never lost track of which one was which. I could tell based on their personalities. It got me thinking. If creatures as simple as crabs had personalities that strong, I can’t even imagine what far more complex animals like cows, pigs, and even chickens must be like. Since then, I’ve met a few pigs while volunteering at an animal shelter and I must say. They’re not much to look at, but most of them were smarter, friendlier, and more clever than most of the dogs I’ve met. It really made me realize that I had no excuse for killing and eating these animals. I’m blessed to live in a country with access to vast amounts of alternative sources of things like protein, iron, and B12 that don’t require directly harming animals in order to acquire. With that in mind, I quickly became far too guilty about eating meat to ever bother doing so again unless my fortunes should drastically change and I find myself in a position where I would have no choice.

  23. 23.

    ? Martin

    I should seriously note that I’ve gone for a reduction in meat in my diet. I’ve thought about going veg, but Ms Martin is a picky eater and wouldn’t follow and that would be more friction than I can cope with at this stage. So, I eat less and make conscious efforts to avoid where I can. It’s what I can do.

  24. 24.

    GregB

    If you never saw the dolphin video, watch it. Moving and compelling stuff.

    Here’s another video that is harder to watch because it starts with a dog getting hit by a car in traffic. The magic part is when another dog ventures into the traffic and drags the other dog to safety.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HJTG6RRN4E

  26. 26.

    Central Planning

    One of my favorite quotes:

    “I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.”

    -A. Whitney Brown

  27. 27.

    cathyx

    I can’t give up eating meat. I tried it once for about a year, and I felt terrible. Humans are omnivores.

  28. 28.

    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist

    I stopped eating meat 20 years ago, but I don’t discuss my dietary choices with meat eaters. It’s nutrition to me, not politics.

  30. 30.

    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist

    @Gwiwer:

    For me the tipping point was birds. I had Nanday Conures, and would feed them small amounts of whatever I was snacking on. One day it was a cold chicken leg and I shared it with them. Then I thought “Eww. These birds are eating a bird. That’s like cannibalism”. Then I thought “I adore these live birds but I’m eating another one. That’s icky, too”. I sobered up later but I remembered that and quickly lost my taste for all meat.

  31. 31.

    dance around in your bones

    This was a lovely video. I am glad they were able to help the dolphin (as Fwiffo says, dolphins ARE pretty clever after all, and willing to be help and be helped) – it reminds me of a seagull that we witnessed while living in Baja that had a florescent arrow through his throat – like from a crossbow or something.

    We would see him on the cliff by our house overlooking the ocean, trying to dive for fish and not able to swallow them….we wanted to help him but had no way to get close to him (? possibly her?) w/o him flying off. Eventually he quit showing up. We called him Spike.

    Anyway, whenever humans and animal species interact to their mutual benefit, I cheer.

    So long, and thanks for all the fish, indeed!

    P.S. Mnemosyne, love the Douglas Adams quote. The dolphins have it together.

  32. 32.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Gwiwer: Great comment and good for you. My Hubby is vegan, but I haven’t gone all the way yet. Animal cruelty, better health and the environment are all good reasons to go veggie.

  34. 34.

    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist

    @RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist:

    I stopped eating meat 20 years ago, but I don’t discuss my dietary choices with meat eaters. It’s nutrition to me, not politics.

    I meant to say I carefully dodge ‘questions’ about vegetarianism that turn into challenging debates about my ethics. Often I just lie and say I can’t eat meat for allergy reasons and avoid the whole wrangle.

  35. 35.

    Wayne t

    Over a year ago I read an article from a guy describing how he became an accidental vegetarian when he had dinner with a vegan who said they stopped eating meat because it was eating “flesh”. As soon as he heard the word “flesh” he lost all appetitie for meat. So of course as soon as I read his story, I too lost all my appetite towards meat and haven’t eaten any since that day. Never in my life did I think it possible to give up hot dogs but that “flesh” imagery just freaked me out to no end.

  37. 37.

    Mary

    @joes527: Exactly-people claim their house plants respond to conversation and I do not disbelieve them. And I love my plants, and the vegetables I grow. And all my pets. But the reality is that a certain cow, or pig or chicken may benefit from you choosing not to eat meat, but what you will also guarantee is that the next generation will never be born.

    Because the idea that cows and pigs and chickens will just be free roaming lovable animals in the back yard is just so ludicious. Suburbanites are beside themselves about deer and bear, can you imagine the rue and cry over cattle and pigs. If deer and bear were commercially feasible, they would not be eating your shrubs. They would be raised on farms.

    Eat and say blessings to your food sourse and be grateful that you have something to eat.

  39. 39.

    lumpkin

    At some point in the more compassionate future, hooks and monofilament fishing line will be banned because of the vast number of marine animals and birds they kill in savagely cruel ways. I saw a seal once near San Diego that had fishing line wrapped around it, cutting through its neck. The poor thing was obviously in pain and had been for a long time. We told the guy at the boat rental place. He told us that the fish and wildlife people knew about it but there’s nothing they can do until the animal gets too weak to escape. If they try to tranquilize it with the dart, it is likely to get far enough away to drown before they can rescue it so they have to wait until it is nearly dead before they can help. I have no idea how it turned out. Made me feel bad for a long time.

  40. 40.

    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist

    @scav:

    Birds do already eat other birds, even non raptors once in a while.

    Indeed. I sit at this desk and periodically watch a cooper’s hawk pick mourning doves off of the bird feeder 10 feet from the window in front of me. That’s momentarily alarming because the dove’s life ends violently. The difference to me is the hawk doesn’t have a choice, but I can choose not to kill things. I’m comfortable with that and have stopped caring that other people can make arguments against it.

  41. 41.

    lumpkin

    @Mary:

    >>>But the reality is that a certain cow, or pig or chicken may benefit from you choosing not to eat meat, but what you will also guarantee is that the next generation will never be born.<<<

    So it's better to be born into cruelty, pain and fear rather than to never exist at all? Wouldn't be my choice.

    I guess you are anti-choice on the abortion issue also – yes?

  42. 42.

    quannlace

    And once again I’m thankful that I only eat kittens and the occasional panda (on holidays).

    What? No American Bald Eagle egg omlettes?

  43. 43.

    handsmile

    @? Martin:

    Driving back home from Washington, DC yesterday (very hoarse and very happy), I spied a sign for “Panda Buffet.” So now I know, it’s bastids like you….

  45. 45.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    @RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist: I stopped eating meat 20 years ago, but I don’t discuss my dietary choices with meat eaters. It’s nutrition to me, not politics.

    This is a good policy. And it goes beyond politics – there’s a lot of identity tied up in meat-eating. IRL I never discuss it unless asked.

  46. 46.

    scav

    @Xecky Gilchrist: There’s identity tied up in eating anything, meat or non-meat, chinese, locavore, chik-filiwhateveritwas, fasting on fridays, no processed cheese, you’ve got peanut butter in my chocolate.. . . being alive doesn’t have tidy problems usually and eating is visceral.

  49. 49.

    mai naem

    Eating veg is not anywhere as hard as it used to be. I remember going out to eat twenty years ago and the only thing you could find in a chinese place was “Buddha style vegetables” AKA veggie stir fry. Eating at a coffee shop would mean eating pancakes or cereal with toast. Eating at a mexican place was cheese enchiladas or a bean burrito if they didn’t use lard in those. Italian was one place where you had some choice – pasta with marinara/eggplant parmigiana/some kind of cheese stuffed pasta. I can’t be a vegan. I cannot give up dairy. I am amazed that Bill Clinton’s a vegan. From eating everything to no meat/no dairy/no eggs/no fish. That’s got to be tough.

  51. 51.

    Arclite

    @ John,

    This is the kind of story that might seriously make me become a vegetarian:

    You, uh, eat dolphin?

  52. 52.

    Roger Moore

    @Maude:

    Crows will eat baby birds in a nest .

    They’re by no means the worst. Jays are supposed to be among the worst nest robbers, but the crows usually wind up taking the blame. And just about any kind of bird will happily eat somebody else’s eggs.

  54. 54.

    Origuy

    @Silva:

    Filibuster reform over again, per fucking Harry Reid.
    Talk about a shill.

    Link? I don’t see anything to indicate that.

  55. 55.

    Roger Moore

    @mai naem:

    I am amazed that Bill Clinton’s a vegan. From eating everything to no meat/no dairy/no eggs/no fish. That’s got to be tough.

    It’s amazing how much motivation a health scare can give people.

  57. 57.

    Maude

    @Roger Moore:
    I’d forgotten about the Jays. There aren’t any around here. Where I grew up, there were tons.
    These are wonderful sleepy time thought.
    Birds of pray don’t bother me a bit.
    I used to say that they were seed eaters, indirectly.
    Morning Doves will peck each other to death if fighting.
    Birds can be fierce.
    Catbirds will attack people if they decide to.

  58. 58.

    redshirt

    @Mnemosyne: Excellent.

    I was just reading something which posited that our best chance for studying intelligent alien life is dolphins.

    They’re clearly intelligent, and have all the hallmarks of a highly functioning individuals/societies. That said, they have almost no tool use.

    The point was – it’s entirely possible there’s tons of intelligent aliens out there, but they never developed tech.

    It would almost be safer that way…. But, no radio waves.

    Another fun dolphin fact – some linguist developed a code breaking program which essentially looks for repetitions. The idea being repetitions indicate meaning – words like “the”, “and”, “at” etc, will be repeated numerous times in any communication.

    He applied the same program to recordings of dolphins and the graph looked exactly like human languages.

    Also too – vegetarian for 18 years, love it, not preachy, never going back.

  64. 64.

    LT

    @Gin & Tonic: wtf? “aka porpoise”?

    That’s a dolphin. You can tell by the bulbous “forehead” and snout. They’re not “aka porpoises.” That’s a different cetacean.

    And are you serious with the “not a food animal” message?

    Weird.

  66. 66.

    Calming Influence

    “This is the kind of story that might seriously make me become a vegetarian:”

    To paraphrase the Pig Joke:

    “Why does your dolphin have only one fin?”

    “Well, a dolphin that smart you don’t eat all at once…”

  68. 68.

    Wolfdaughter

    @Gwiwer:

    I have thought for years that we vastly underestimate the intelligence of the animals with whom we share this planet. I could tell lots of stories, but let this one suffice:

    I was on a choir tour in 1994. We were riding in a big bus which we had rented for the duration of the tour. We were in southern Colorado on our way to the summer house of one of the choir members and were traveling on a back road, dirt, of course.

    Cattle were grazing in fields just off the road. I had always thought that cattle were incurious and not particularly intelligent. But these cattle were astonished at the bus. They had clearly never seen such a vehicle on their back road. Their heads followed us for as long as they could see us. Whereas, as anyone knows who drives on country roads in farmlands, cattle ordinarily ignore cars and trucks on the roads because they are accustomed to seeing such vehicles. But they were fascinated by the bus.

  69. 69.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @LT: I suspect it’s an attempt to underline the distinction between a mammal dolphin (which this clearly is) and dolphin fish, which is a name used sometimes for Mahi Mahi.

  72. 72.

    dance around in your bones

    I’d just like to say that those of us who are fortunate enough to limit what we eat because of moral/spiritual/personal beliefs – are fortunate.

    Everything in this world eats something else that was previously alive, whether it was a carrot or a chicken or a fish. Fish eat fish, for cripes sake.

    We are lucky we HAVE something to eat.

    Also this comment got hijacked by grandkids who wanted me to play some Xbox game where you watch in horrified amazement your middle-aged body flailing around at some pixels representing helicopters and buildings to destroy them.

    You know how they record your playing time on the Xbox? I hope they don’t ever post the pics/videos online because about 99% of the time my grandboys are naked and swinging in the breeze. I kinda worry about that.

  74. 74.

    clayton

    @Mary: You know, I’m quite tired of excuse making.

    The reason deer and bears are not “commercially feasible” is because it’s just gun nuts and retros who eat them. There’s also the biology of domestication that has clearly escaped you.

  75. 75.

    CaseyL

    I tried being a vegan and vegetarian. Both were great at first, but after a while I developed this weird hollow feeling, like a stiff wind would blow me over, and a general lack of mental/physical energy.

    My accommodation is to try only eating animal protein from humanely-raised critters, whether it’s eggs or meat. My food bills are pretty high, though happily free range chicken is much less expensive than it used to be – at least here in the People’s Republic of the Pacific NW, where it seems everyone and their cousins are engaged in sustainable, cruelty-free farming.

  76. 76.

    Cain

    @lumpkin:

    My only issue is that these creatures don’t have natural predators. They could grow without bound and then you’ll have an over population problem and will be competition for resources.

    That said, we could do with some culling ourselves. Luckily nature knows how to stop populations growing way too large either lack of resources, war, or famine will reduce our numbers. It would be a shame we had to wait till that happened to reduce our population.

  77. 77.

    LT

    I went 11 years without eating anything with eyes.

    I reckon I’ve done my part. (Maybe I’ll do it again some day.)

  80. 80.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @LT: I know that, but the fish, mahi mahi, is sometimes referred to as “dolphin.” I worded my response poorly. I had a waiter once say “our special tonight is grilled dolphin, but not like flipper.” I replied “can you aske the chef is that’s mahi mahi or has s/he – or the fishmonger – just renamed a more common firm whitefish for menu appeal.” Chef was not amused, and couldn’t identify the actual fish, so I’ve not a clue what it was. But I’ve heard people call mahi mahi dolphin.

  81. 81.

    StringOnAStick

    @CaseyL: Thanks for that; I’m in the same boat. I discovered I have a wheat allergy and grains in general make me feel like crap, force me to live on Aleve 24/7, etc. I was getting ready to accept the idea of a knee replacement last summer because I was in so much pain from the arthritis. I quit eating grains and boom, pain gone. Migraines are gone too, and that used to be a 1 to 2 times a week issue, plus a few other more complicated to describe items have resolved entirely, all from getting my inflammation level down by cutting out high carb sources like grains, processed food (I wasn’t eating much of that so that was an easy thing to get rid of), and sugars. The wheat is the main one though, that stuff is nothing like what my grandparents ate, and the current estimate is that 40% of the US population has some level of allergic reaction to wheat.

    We’re going to be staying about 10 miles from where this video was shot in a few weeks, and I had been wavering on spending the bucks for a manta ray night dive. I think I just decided it’s worth it!

  82. 82.

    slag

    @cathyx:

    I can’t give up eating meat. I tried it once for about a year, and I felt terrible. Humans are omnivores.

    No. Humans are humans. You’re an omnivore. And a horrible logician.

  83. 83.

    Ms.B

    @StringOnAStick: Four female friends went on that exact dive a few weeks ago, and from what I can tell (say, all four are wearing their manta ray earrings every single day since then–hee), it was amazing–and that’s without the dolphin save. Just sent the save video to them tonight, in fact.

  86. 86.

    Maeve

    The bears in my neighborhood would eat my dog if they could. (And some have eaten local dogs). My dog eats kibble which is environmentally incorrect.

    Most of the former vegetarians in Alaska that I know eat fish – that’s called eating local here

    Eating local here means eating fish/seawead/herring eggs/venison (no moose in this part of alaska)

    Local gardeners grown greens – not much sunshine (long but cloudy days in the summer) we actually have a local foods movement but its a triumph to grow a vegetable without the slugs eating it.

    We had a great wild/local potluck here in Sitka from the local Sitka Conservation Society = here’s a slideshow
    http://sitkawild.org/2012/11/the-sitka-conservation-societys-wild-foods-potluck-2012/

  87. 87.

    Betty Cracker

    @RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist: I can’t eat chicken now that I have pet chickens. I was in the grocery store the other day waiting on my deli order, and a lady behind the counter was stringing chicken carcasses onto a rotisserie. It made me sad.

    @dance around in your bones: One time I found a pelican on the beach with fishing line tangled around his / her wing. He / she allowed me to untangle the wing, which entailed my holding the wing out by the tip to fully extend it, unwind the line from around the wing right up next to its body and undo knots. It took a long time too. I was amazed the bird let me get so close. It must have been really tired and at the end of its rope.

Comments are closed.