Oh what a few days in jail will do to you.
On today’s #TWiBRadio, #TeamBlackness, I will fully admit I’ve been under the weather and may have been a smidge looney,we revisit the courtroom of Circuit Judge Jorge Rodriguez-Chomat who sent Penelope Soto to jail last week for flipping him the bird. She since apologized and he dropped the jail time. The crew also discussed the retirement of Pope Benedect XVI and how suddenly everyone on Twitter is an expert in Vatican Law. Listen here:
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And on TWiB in the Morning, the #amTWiB crew welcomed economic justice lawyer Lurie Daniel Favors to talk about financial independence as well as the return of the debtor’s prison. Listen here:
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And if you’re enjoying the shows we’re still asking folks to take the super quick survey for TWiB Radio (survey) TWiB in the Morning (survey) and On Blackness (survey). Thanks for your support! And as per usual we’ll be all up in the comments.
raven
I enjoyed listening to your take on this the day after.
raven
Let’s hear from all those great humanitarians that hammered the judge for being an asshole.
NotMax
Unless you have access to a wormhole from the future, all one can discuss right now is the upcoming retirement of Benedict.
Why anyone not a part of that
cultchurch would care to discuss it for more than two seconds eludes me.Nemo_N
Now society will be safer.
Cacti
What can one say about young First Amendment martyr Penelope Soto?
Oh yeah…
Dumbass.
raven
@Nemo_N: Maybe she’ll be safer without her head up her ass.
Corner Stone
@raven:
Asshole judge is still asshole.
raven
@NotMax:
Resigning Pope No Longer Has Strength To Lead Church Backward
NotMax
@raven
Hey, raven. Dunno whether or not you saw theminor correction for future quotation accuracy from a thread downpage.
Steeplejack
@raven:
The judge was an asshole for doubling the bond. I thought the contempt citation was draconian, but that was his call to make (which he has now amended).
And thanks for weighing in on behalf of all the great authoritarians.
Corner Stone
“ima da freakin’ pope!”
/obligatory
Forum Transmitted Disease
I want to take a lawnmower to her eyebrows.
The young lady learned a valuable lesson. In this country, you have the right to go tell a judge to fuck himself. There is also the possibility that the judge may not take it too well, and retaliate. Because of how our judiciary is set up, he has the right to do that as well.
If you tell someone to fuck themselves, you’d better have the power to make that stick. She didn’t. A very valuable lesson.
Cacti
Will the RCC go on Christian Mingle to find God’s match for them?
Corner Stone
@Forum Transmitted Disease:
The lesson being “might makes right” ?
Seems I’ve heard that one before.
General Stuck
Do believe I called it in the first thread. Maybe this girl will learn an early lesson and not die from the addiction monster.
General Stuck
@Corner Stone:
Says the bottle worm.
General Stuck
Has it occurred to any of you mavens of feedom against the MAN, that this judge has seen this shit many times before, and if his purpose was truly to punish in a draconian manner, he would not have reversed course. It is a script, and is not the least bit authoritarian. The justice system is actually trying to help young people like this, to break the self absorbed mentality that usually leads to misery and an early death.
Cassidy
@raven: I still stand by what I said and that’s that I feel sorry for her. Between a substance abuse issue and the kind of personal life that is involved with that (speculation only)she did learn a valuable lesson: she is small and courts are places for revenge. I’m not sure the lesson was a good one. Either way, the judge had the chance to show power or compassion.
NotMax
@Corner Stone
The other obligatory?
Murray Goldstein has bragged for years and years that he knows everyone. Finally his friend Schulman decides to call his bluff. “Do you know the Pope?”
“What a question! Of course I know the Pope; we’re guter fraynd, like that,” says Goldstein, crossing 2 fingers together
“Huh. Says you,” says Schulman, “I’ll buy two tickets to Rome. You and I are going, and I want to see you with the Pope.”
Twenty-four hours later, they’re in the square outside St. Peter’s. The Pope is scheduled to bless the crowd in fifteen minutes.
“So, big shot?” says Schulman.
“So watch,” says Goldstein, and disappears into the crowd.
Fifteen minutes later, a massive cheer goes up, and Schulman sees the Pope appear on the balcony – with Goldstein at his side.
Schulman is dumbfounded. As he stands there with his mouth open, a tiny, elderly Italian nun tugs at his elbow, and asks, “Excuse me, but who’s the guy up there with Murray?”
Burnspbesq
Wait, she’s now the Officially Designated First Amendment Martyr? What happened to Julian Assange?
Djur
@General Stuck: Wait, you’re not drunk when you post here?
General Stuck
@Djur:
painfully lame
Cassidy
@General Stuck: I’m not sure I agree with you. We don’t know the guy, so maybe this is his schtick or maybe he backtracked after all the press to make sure he didn’t come across as a supreme asshole.
shortstop
This thread can only end in heartbreak.
Nothing can make me blue tonight, though. My dear papa, who was rushed to the hospital yesterday with mysterious convulsions, turns out not to have had a stroke, heart issues or anything else horrifyingly major; believe it or not, they think an untreated UTI caused his violent tremors. Whew.
Plus, I fired Comcast today, and that felt fucking great.
? Martin
Whelp. Sounds like NK set off another nuke.
General Stuck
@Cassidy:
No problemo
Forum Transmitted Disease
@Corner Stone: The lesson I’m thinking of runs more along the lines of “don’t step in front of a bus if you want to stay out of a wheelchair”, or for the more pop-culture types among us, “if you come at the king, be sure not to miss.”
I ain’t saying the judge is right. Fact is, he’s a dickhead. But if you get into a situation where a dickhead has power over the course of your life, as this young lady did, you’d better recognize that and act accordingly.
My grandpa was a cop, and not a terribly nice person. My mother, having seen both cops and the justice system in action growing up, and seeing the abuses that could happen, had some very explicit instructions for me regarding interactions with cops before she’d let me get my license. Basically, it was “do anything they tell you to, say ‘sir’ every time you talk to them and kiss their butts. I can always get a lawyer and get you out of jail. I can’t bring you back to life if you backtalk a cop and he decides to shoot your ass.” Good words of advice. And those words don’t apply just to cops either.
Is it right? Of course not, and I’m not saying that. But it is a thing that is, and as such, this young lady learned a pretty cheap lesson. She’s juvenile, it will be expunged, and she lives to party another day. Under different circumstances, same words and actions, she might have come home to her parents in a box.
Cassidy
@General Stuck: Yeah, six of one, half dozen off the other. lol Here’s to hoping she gets treatment and it works.
jharp
@General Stuck:
I see it the same.
And I love to see judges use their dictatorial powers to run their courtrooms. Wouldn’t have it any other way.
shortstop
@Forum Transmitted Disease:
She’s 18, I think.
General Stuck
@shortstop:
If she was a juvenile, we would likely have never heard of this case, let alone seen it televised.
Yutsano
@? Martin: I have friends in Seoul. I’ll do some checking with them when I get home to see if they have any opinion about it.
James Gary
…or for the more pop-culture types among us, “if you come at the king, be sure not to miss.”
That’s “If you come at the king, you best not miss,” but your slight modification into white-people corporate-speak is cute too.
But if you get into a situation where a dickhead has power over the course of your life, as this young lady did, you’d better recognize that and act accordingly.
Nice to see the tough-love crypto-authoritarian BJers out this fine evening. I’m sure you guys would’ve been able to give some good advice to, say, Gandhi and/or the civil rights activists of the 1960s. Probably stopped some heads from being cracked.
Cassidy
@James Gary: Nice cherry picking there. Purity before nuance! And what would your advice for Gandhi have been? Go comment on a blog?
General Stuck
@James Gary:
Sometimes I wonder if I’m not logged into the basement crowd at Reason Mag with this blog. It is not democratic nor liberal. It is something else altogether different. Like permanent high school punk time.
I guess happy endings ain’t what they used to be. eh?
Yutsano
@Cassidy: I also love how a confused, scared, possibly drug addicted 18 year old girl is now Gandhi. That’s awesome conflation right there.
Mnemosyne
@James Gary:
Wait, seriously? Penelope Soto is the 21st century Rosa Parks because she back-talked to a judge while high?
You have got some seriously messed-up priorities.
Cassidy
@Yutsano: The denial of reality is strong in that one.
Mnemosyne
@Yutsano:
Not just Gandhi — she’s Gandhi, Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., and Rosa Parks all rolled up into one.
Apparently mouthing off to a judge while high is now a moral stance on the level of gaining the independence of India or securing civil rights for African-Americans.
Omnes Omnibus
@James Gary:
Gandhi and the civil rights activists were in situations where dickheads had power over the course of their lives and they did act accordingly. They knowingly took risky actions in order to make a point on major issues. Ms. Soto was simply a person who was either unaware of the standards of behavior in a courtroom or was unaware that disregarding those standards could open one up to penalties.
I still think the judge was an ass for doubling her bail for the “adios,” but let’s not suggest that this girl was a knowing rebel against an unjust system.
ranchandsyrup
@shortstop: Glad you got good news about your dad. Comcast blows goats.
scav
Knee-jerk reactions and smart-ass lip have always been equivalent to carefully thought out actions and a philosophy of non violent resistence to power. Most revolutionary changes in the human condition have been forged using the inspiring actions of self-absorbed toddlers.
Declaration of Sez U MoFo, by TJeff and peeps.
Nemo_N
Apparently, unless you’re Gandhi or MLK it’s totally okay to wield power in a disproportionate manner against you.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nemo_N: If she were in high school as an 18 y/o, would you object to her being given detention for the “Fuck you” and bird?
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Omnes Omnibus: FIGHT THE POWER! FREE MUMIA!
Omnes Omnibus
@The prophet Nostradumbass: I actually do think that the judge went overboard. Check the previous thread on this topic. OTOH people are expected to act in certain ways in certain fora. She did not and it was not a principled rebellion or even a decision to wear black tie instead of white at an embassy ball. The idea that she would be able to do this without some consequence surprises me.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh, I mostly agree with you.
James E. Powell
@General Stuck:
I did not think the judge was out of line giving her 30 days for direct contempt. It would have been out of line if he had made her serve the 30 days. I’m pretty confident that he knew he would let her go after a short stay. He may even have told her attorney to get it done right after the attorney was appointed. I’ve seen things like that happen quite often.
I’m sure that to many people the judge appears harsh, but even if the person in the black robe is a bozo or an a-hole, the court is where everybody has to act right. Respect for the judge as a judge, and for the courtroom, requires enforcement. If it takes some harsh punishment to make that point to this young person, along with everyone who saw it or heard about it, then that’s the way it goes.
Omnes Omnibus
@James E. Powell: The problem I had with the judge was the doubling the bail for the “adios.”
gwangung
@Nemo_N:
Apparently you sure as hell don’t understand a Gandhi or MLK.
The whole point of civil disobedience is that you KNOW you’re facing power that can wielded capriciously and you know how to take it. Remember, civil rights activists were TRAINED in how to take it. And they knew it COULD be used against them.
p
The judge has probably penalized for contempt then withdrawn several times in consideration of defendants like Ms. Soto. He knows what he is doing, unlike those that criticize him having severely limited experience of the criminal justice system.
Paul in KY
@shortstop: Glad to hear he is OK.
Cassidy
I still don’t think revenge and humiliation into compliance are a good way to run a justice system…or an educational system for that matter. ‘MURIKA! FUCK YEAH!
Dangerfield
These folks at Ballon juice seem to live on a planet white privledge. Where one can do and say they want because god damnit the constitution says I can.
The young lady was acting like a little bitch and she got what she had comming. If your too fucking stupid not to know you shouldnt flip a judge the bird, keep your ass out of courtrooms.
I guess to some folks at Balloon Juice whenever there was a fight on the play at school the teachers were always there to break it up immediately before someone got thier ass kicked. And of course afterward everyone apologized at was the best of friends afterward.
The judge was not bieng an asshole its good that he put the little smartass in her place.
Dangerfield
@Mnemosyne:
These super lefties live in a world of thier own making. Dont start none wont be none at least thats what they say where I come from.
Cassidy
@Dangerfield: Ooh, misogyny and drive by bravado all in one! So what suburb did you learn your tough guy speak in, Homer?
dangerfield
@Cassidy:
That would be the suburb of Oxon Hill, MD about 10 minutes from Washington D.C and I wouldnt say it was tough. But I can tell you this if you ran your mouth you had better be able to back it up because someone was going to pull your card.
The girl ran her mouth in a place and time where it was totally inappropriate and the Judge called her bluff.
Only on the planet of super expanded white privlidge would that judge be considired wrong.
Cassidy
@dangerfield: Ahh, the dreaded suburb of Oxon Hill. You go Spartacus.
Yutsano
@Dangerfield:
LOL u mad bro? That just gourds you, that those durn libruls and darkies won’t just shut up and let the white man be?
Cassidy
@Yutsano: Click the links. It’s more fun that way.
dangerfield
@Yutsano:
” That just gourds you, that those durn libruls and darkies ”
Are you serious I’m a black man myself so what the fuck are you talking about? But I have very little use for you super lefties. I’m not claiming to be a boxer but there were fights all of the time were I grew up and if you ran your mouth you had better be able to back it up.
However I shouldnt have called the girl bitch although she WAS acting like one. I’m not trying to act tough or play the tough guy role but have enough experience with life and fist fights to know that the super expanded white privlidge bull shit you super lefties are pushing only exist in a dream world.
The girl ran her mouth in court and got smacked down and she fucking deserved it. So once again dont start none wont be none,especially with a judge who has your fate in his hands.
Cassidy
@dangerfield: Preach it.
Cassidy
Oh noes! Moderation.
Dangerfield
Didnt click your link. But dont need to to know that you are a jack ass. It never fails that super lefties almost always turn out to be pricks.
Cassidy
@Dangerfield: You should.