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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Oscars Open Thread

Reader Interactions

498Comments

  1. 1.

    Johnny Coelacanth

    Dances With Wolves was pretty good but, in retrospect, Goodfellas was totally the better film.

  2. 2.

    Mnemosyne

    Again, waiting to see if the “Life of Pi” guys mention that their studio went out of business.

    ETA: Well, at least he tried, but they cut his mike. Assholes.

  3. 3.

    Villago Delenda Est

    I’m sure the wingnutosphere is going ape over Christoph Waltz winning the best supporting actor prize.

    Let them.

    Ha ha!

    /Nelson Muntz

  6. 6.

    Linda

    Hollywood feeling good on itself for being so socially conscious and all that.

    It goes with other great robberies: The Greatest Show on Earth won in the year that it was nominated with Singin’ in the Rain, The Quiet Man and High Noon.

    Also, The English Patient in the same year as Fargo. Bleh.

  7. 7.

    Redshirt

    I took a bunch of film classes in college and the single, no cut tracking shot in Goodfellas as DeNiro walks through the casino was hailed as genius.

    But no wolves.

  10. 10.

    Spaghetti Lee

    I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised so far. Maybe it’s just cause my expectations were so low. MacFarlane’s been better than most of the recent hosts.

  11. 11.

    max

    Goodfellas should have beaten Dances with Wolves. I will carry this firm belief to the grave.

    Well, that’s great but you can’t figure what to do with two women if you were sandwiched in between them, so I’m thinkin’ it probably doesn’t matter much.

    max
    [‘Hang on for dear life, obvs.’]

  12. 12.

    Villago Delenda Est

    On the subject of Dances With Wolves vs. Goodfellas, it helps to realize that, as mentioned in previous threads, The Oscars (all rights reserved, MPAA) are all about Hollywood feeling good about itself. Dances With Wolves redefined the western in a new way, one where the protagonists were the natives, and the white guys were the baddies. Goodfellas, OTOH, was just another gangster flick, albeit one of the post-Godfather sensibility.

  15. 15.

    artem1s

    Pulp Fiction should have beaten out Forrest Gump but the fledgling wingnutosphere would have really freaked on that one

  16. 16.

    FridayNext

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Dances With Wolves redefined the western in a new way, one where the protagonists were the natives, and the white guys were the baddies.

    I thought they already did that with Little Big Man.

  19. 19.

    dr. bloor

    If Dances with Wolves didn’t get the hardware, Waterworld and The Postman never would have seen the light of day.

    Sort of like a version of It’s a Wonderful Life where everyone would have been better off with George jumping off the bridge.

  20. 20.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    Martin Scorsese should have won best director for GoodFellas(which was ten times better than The Departed, though I liked that film too), but I was glad that Joe Pesci won best supporting actor. Denzel Washington should have won best actor for Hurricane and Malcom X, his Oscar for training day was kind of an Oscar oopsie.

  22. 22.

    raven

    And Pete Postlethwaite should have won for In the Name of the Father instead of Tommy Lee Jones in that awful The Fugitive.

  26. 26.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @FridayNext:

    Yes, but Dances With Wolves did it in epic, unignorable fashion.

    BTW, Star Wars should have won when it was nominated, but Annie Hall did instead.

  27. 27.

    Randy P

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Dances With Wolves redefined the western in a new way, one where the protagonists were the natives, and the white guys were the baddies.

    Actually Clint Eastwood’s directorial debut The Outlaw Josey Wales did that back in ’76. There’s a scene with Clint and the Indians holed up in a cabin as the cowboys are riding around shooting at them. A fun reversal of an old western cliche.

  28. 28.

    dance around in your bones

    I think Dances with Wolves was one of the first movies I bought on VHS back in the day because they were selling it at McDonald’s for 5 bucks.

    I will still watch Goodfellas anytime I run across it on the tube. Dances – not so much.

    The first music video I ever bought was Stop Making Sense by the Talking Heads, and I’d still watch THAT any day of the week.

  29. 29.

    PsiFighter37

    Wasn’t there some other film that Rocky should’ve lost to back in the day?

    With the back in the day = before I was born?

    /being obnoxiously drunk about how relatively young I am to the average BJ reader

  36. 36.

    Comrade Mary

    Whoa — Shirley Bassey is a presence! She started a little shaky, but has recovered nicely.

  40. 40.

    CaseyL

    If one of the things a movie is supposed to do is transport you into a different place and time, and make you believe it, Dances With Wolves did that. The scene of dawn over the prairie, with the wonderful melancholy-yearning of the theme music, that I thought beautifully evoked the sense of “frontier.” Could almost feel the wind.

  42. 42.

    Robert

    I stupidly assumed the voters would actually watch the animated nominees, not just straight ticket vote for Pixar because Pixar!!!

  43. 43.

    Redshirt

    @raven: I was recently surprised to discover Stallone is fairly progressive. Would not have thought it, given all the Rambo stuff.

    Rocky – the first movie only – was a true piece of art. Impressive work.

    Rocky IV is way better though, of course.

  44. 44.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @FridayNext: Fuck off. Fargo was annoying. Yeah, let’s introduce a character and two whole scenes for no reason other than that it would be funny to have an Asian guy speaking with a Minnesota accent. Frances McDormand was the only thing that movie had going for it; the Coen brothers fucked up everything else.

    The English Patient, on the other hand, is amazing. Just don’t read the book; it sucks.

  45. 45.

    Tokyokie

    Goodfellas should have beaten Dances with Wolves. I will carry this firm belief to the grave.

    Well, seeing as Goodfellas, a dizzying mix of film styles replete with a variety of throwback narrative flourishes (freeze frames, voice-over narration, wipes), is arguably the finest film from arguably this country’s finest filmmaker, and Dances With Wolves is simple-minded white do-gooder nonsense with a flabby screenplay that’s built around the notion that plopping a camera in front of Rocky Mountain vistas in and of itself constitutes brilliant cinema, I don’t think you’re going too far out on a limb, Cole.

    Me? I remain aghast that Ennio Morricone never won a competitive Oscar and that his soundtrack for C’era una volta il West wasn’t even nominated. But then, Bernard Hermann wasn’t nominated for Vertigo, either. And John Williams’ dreadfully florid scores continue to be honored.

  46. 46.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    Goodfellas should have beaten Dances with Wolves. I will carry this firm belief to the grave.

    Taxi Driver and Raging Bull should have gotten the award the years they were up for ’em, too. The Departed wasn’t as good as any of those three, or even as good as The Aviator, imo.

  47. 47.

    dance around in your bones

    @PsiFighter37:

    Yeah, back in the day generally means “when I was younger” – and yes, quite prolly before you were born.

    Y’all should cut back on the drinking; not that I did back in the day. I survived, my husband did not. It’s all relative.

    Or a crap-shoot.

  49. 49.

    raven

    @Redshirt: Yea and when a chapter of the Vietnam Vets of America asked him for help since he made millions on those horseshit fucking movies he sent them an autographed picture of himself.

  51. 51.

    cckids

    @Robert: Yeah, both Wreck-It Ralph and The Pirates were FAR better than Brave. And I liked Brave, it was fine, but the others were innovative, fun and different.

    The BJ crowd would like The Pirates. Wonderfully snarky, & Hugh Grant does a nice job voicing the captain. Stream it if you can.

  52. 52.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @CaseyL: Well sure, if you ignore every scene Kevin Costner was in, Dances with Wolves was awesome. On the other hand, Bull Durham was fabulous even if you leave his scenes in.

  53. 53.

    Suzanne

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): “The English Patient” was a complete snore.

    The movie that I just can’t get over winning is “A Beautiful Mind”. I watched it, and I remember thinking, “This is the most beautiful movie I’ve ever seen”. Then I got more than one-third of the way through it, and it all just fell to shit.

  55. 55.

    Suffern ACE

    @cckids: I thought pirates was kind of a let down considering how awesome Chicken Run was. Plus the book was better.

    /crank

  58. 58.

    JPL

    My Oscar prediction is that David Carr will not be awake by the end of the show. At this point A.O. Scott is helping out but the NYTimes live feed is struggling. lol

  59. 59.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    I’ll tell who should have won ah Oscar for Best Animation, Sylvain Chomets The Triplets Of Belleville. A throwback to old school animation. And the song Belleville Rendevous was not bad either.

  61. 61.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @CaseyL:

    This. I think it won because of the most wonderful evocative music with the sweeping filmscapes as much for anything else. To this day I can picture the cart traveling over the landscape with the most beautiful music.

  62. 62.

    CaseyL

    @raven: I just had an ad swoosh across the screen. That’s a first at BJ.

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Yes!… Well, that and Rodney Grant (Wind in His Hair) who I developed a mad crush on, and Graham Greene (Kicking Bird) who I still adore.

  65. 65.

    dance around in your bones

    @raven:

    Sigh, I know. Hard to listen to boasting about drinking like it’s some kind of accomplishment.

    I could make a comment about opinions and – well, you know. We all got them.

  66. 66.

    GregB

    I’m pretty outraged that Dinesh D’Souzas film wasn’t nominated for best documentary. Damn liberal Hollywood!

  67. 67.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    Oh and Titanic should never have been nominated for anything other than “best historically inaccurate turd in filmmaking”

  73. 73.

    Tokyokie

    @FridayNext: Actually, films like Soldier Blue and Cheyenne Autumn that told their stories from the Indians’ point of view (or at least portrayed the Indians sympathetically) predated Little Big Man, although neither of those others is particularly good and have been rightfully pretty much forgotten. (The former, a depiction of the 1864 Sand Creek Massacre, is a bloody Vietnam War allegory and the latter is a narratively muddled late-career Western from John Ford.) But basically, in the Western subgenre of the cavalry movie, up until about 1970, always was told from the perspective of the white settlers, and after that, it’s always been told from the perspective of the Native Americans (or at least they’re portrayed sympathetically). For my money, the best cavalry subgenre film of the last 40 years is Bob Aldrich’s Ulzana’s Raid, which is almost maddening in its militant refusal to make one perspective morally superior to the other.

  75. 75.

    Comrade Mary

    Sugarman won — awesome! Too bad Rodriguez chose not to be there.

    Host is tanking and he knows it. Speaking of Jaws, Affleck smelled the blood in the water and tore off a little piece on stage.

  78. 78.

    artem1s

    Are they still using the new and improved voting system this year that was suppose to give the best picture nod to Avatar and totally failed to produce the results desired (populist > artsy)?

  79. 79.

    Mnemosyne

    It was published in 1993 and so misses a lot of the complaints people have here, but Danny Peary’s book Alternate Oscars is very entertaining and he makes a good case for his choices. There’s at least one year when his verdict is, “none of the above,” because none of the best movies of that year were nominated.

  83. 83.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @dance around in your bones:

    Try as ya might, some people have to actually hit rock bottom to figure it out. In my case, luckily, I didn’t kill anyone (myself included) as I was ignoring all the signs of my problem, and the only night I’ve ever spent locked up was enough to convince me to stop.

    And I don’t miss it a bit.

  84. 84.

    Jay C

    IIIJM, or is plying up the “jaws” theme as a leadin to the mike-cut a particularly tacky way to keep the speechifying down … ?

  89. 89.

    Elizabelle

    @Jay C:

    I think the Jaws music is awful. These folks have just won an Oscar, and they’re not yakking for hours upon hours.

    A little respect.

    But plenty of time for McFarlane’s lame jokes, including one about the Lincoln assassination.

  91. 91.

    Tokyokie

    @Villago Delenda Est: And speaking of Oscar snubs, about the only Oscar Lawrence didn’t get was Peter O’Toole for Best Actor. (He lost to Greg Peck for To Kill a Mockingbird, and although Peck’s character is more inspirational, I think O’Toole’s acting is better.)

  93. 93.

    YellowJournalism

    @John O: The English Patient is one of those movie that overshadows a wonderful novel. If you hate the movie you will love the book!

    Amour won for best foreign language film so in no way will it win Best Picture.

  94. 94.

    Comrade Mary

    @GregB: He said something like “Seth, the show is going well so far, but I’m sure you can turn that around.”

    Travolta looks surprisingly good.

    … but then he started talking Eep.

  98. 98.

    Jay C

    Though given the fact that somebody at the Academy thought it would be a good idea to hire Seth Fucking McFarlane as this yrear’s Oscar host, qualms about “tacky” are probably misplaced…

  99. 99.

    phoebes-in-santa fe

    Has John Travolta had a lot of “work” done on his face? He hardly looks the same as he did a year or so ago.

  101. 101.

    Tokyokie

    @raven: It falls roughly along my line of demarcation of 1970, although it’s a movie that treats Native Americans sympathetically rather than a cavalary Western subgenre film.

  104. 104.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @raven:

    8 for me, coming up on April 12. One of my best friends- my old roomie, the Mutt to my Jeff, the Norm to my Cliff, the guy who did me the solid of bringing me to my first meeting- just hit 8 last week.

  106. 106.

    Spaghetti Lee

    I think MacFarlane’s been better than Billy Crystal last year or Hathaway/Franco before that, but those are some low, low, low bars to clear.

    I think maybe they should do away with the host, or have the host not be comic, or something. Even really funny people seem to flounder at this. Probably because the rest of the event is solemn and deathly serious and the wisecracks always seem out of place.

  108. 108.

    CaseyL

    Dance number. It looked like they were going to do a Fosse, and I wondered who was still, who could still, choreograph like he could. Clearly not this bunch.

  110. 110.

    PaulW

    There are a ton of Hollywood Snubs that can never be forgiven.

    Edward G. Robinson never even getting NOMINATED for an acting role (his only Oscar was honorary). Same goes for Maureen O’Hara (not even for Quiet Man!).

    TRON movies getting snubbed (BOTH OF THEM) for Best Visual Effects.

    “The Rainbow Connection” losing Best Song to “Norma Rae Theme”. :O

  111. 111.

    scottinnj

    I’m surprised 100 comment into worst Oscar winner that no one has mentioned the dreck that was Crash (Brokeback Mountain would have been the better pick that year).

  114. 114.

    dance around in your bones

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    Oddly enough, my husband and I had quit drinking years before he developed the liver disease that killed him. Apparently that’s not all that unusual, from all the liver problem boards I read once he got sick.

    This is not meant to discourage anyone from quitting the booze. I still enjoy a glass of wine, but – ya know – moderation in all things, right?

  115. 115.

    PsiFighter37

    From what my FB feed is telling, Seth MacFarlane is sucking it up as the host. Kind of hard to do, although I can see how ‘Family Guy’ humor would be less funny a) live, and b) in front of a Hollywood audience that doesn’t appear to have a sense of humor at all.

  121. 121.

    Mnemosyne

    @CaseyL:

    It looked like they were going to do a Fosse, and I wondered who was still, who could still, choreograph like he could.

    You have to pay to use Fosse’s choreography, because it’s still under copyright. That’s why they didn’t use it in the movie of Chicago, and probably why they used their own choreographers tonight.

  124. 124.

    CaseyL

    @raven: Um… I meant someone still alive. It’s not just the spectacle, it’s the depth of the choreography; the energy; the complexity and precision of the moves.

    @Mnemosyne: The completed works, sure. But is there anyone writing new, original dances with that level of artistry?

  125. 125.

    Short Bus Bully

    Goodfellas? Fine movie. So is Dances with Wolves. Pulp Fiction, however, was fucking awesome.

    Forrest Gump was my ass.

    I’ll carry that one to my grave. I was in L.A. visiting friends and within earshot of the event and yelled obscenities off the balcony to say farewell to the limos leaving. The LAPD did not like me.

  126. 126.

    Spaghetti Lee

    Are they going to bring out Anne Hathaway for the song that got her nominated and then not give her the award? That would be awkward.

  128. 128.

    Djur

    The 2005 Oscars had a good example of a bad Best Picture pick where there wasn’t really an obvious “robbed” runner-up. That year Crash won over Brokeback Mountain, Capote, Good Night And Good Luck, and Munich. All of which are okay, and certainly better than Crash.

    The actual best movie that year, A History Of Violence, wasn’t nominated.

  129. 129.

    geg6

    Sorry folks, but there’s no such thing as a good western, but Dances with Wolves us certainly not the worst. And Badfellas is probably one of Scorcese’s worst films. So IMHO, neither is Oscar worthy, one by virtue of being of the worst genre ever to have film wasted on it and the other by virtue of being a medocre example ofctge filmmaker’s oevre.

    And whoever here who is so concerned about Silver Linings Playbook being some sort of fairy tale where the guy with a major mental illness is cured by love or something, you can relax. It’s about as realistic a take of a person learning to live a full life despite his mental illness as it gets. He is never cured, but he learns to cope, mainly by taking his meds, which is pretty much how it is in real life for people with bipolar disorder. It rang very true to me and I’ve watched my oldest brother go through it for the last thirty years.

  130. 130.

    Steeplejack

    @GregB:

    After McFarlane introduced him, Affleck said, “Thank you, Seth. I actually thought the show had been going pretty well . . . but maybe you can turn it around.”

  132. 132.

    Mnemosyne

    I keep forgetting that Sasha Baron Cohen was in Les Miserables. And I already knew the dude can sing, because I saw Sweeney Todd on cable.

  133. 133.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @dance around in your bones:

    This is not meant to discourage anyone from quitting the booze.

    I’m no Carrie Nation. A lot of people can drink successfully.

    I still enjoy a glass of wine, but – ya know – moderation in all things, right?

    Not me. I know myself too well. No first drink means no tenth drink.

    I will stop now before I spread my platitudinitis.

  134. 134.

    Keith

    @artem1s: Can’t argue with you there. And Pulp had the better soundtrack, too. Forrest Gump had such a lazy soundtrack in comparison…it was like Zemeckis chose the most-identifiable song released at the time of a given period and just used that.

  136. 136.

    Yutsano

    @scottinnj: The only award Crash won that year was BP. Otherwise Brokeback swept pretty much all of the rest it was nominated in. That was just fucking criminal.

  137. 137.

    Suzanne

    I am actually really enjoying MacFarlane. I like watching all those assholes squirm.

    I want to be Jennifer Hudson.

  140. 140.

    Mnemosyne

    @CaseyL:

    But is there anyone writing new, original dances with that level of artistry?

    Honestly, I have no idea. But we have at least gotten past the “Debbie Allen must choreograph everything!” phase of the Oscars.

  142. 142.

    gogol's wife

    All anyone needs to know is that Barbara Stanwyck never won a competitive Oscar and neither did Alfred Hitchcock. So it’s all totally ridiculous.

  143. 143.

    Djur

    @Yutsano: Brokeback only won Best Director, Best Adapted Screenplay, and Best Original Score. Crash won Best Picture, Best Original Screenplay, and Best Film Editing.

    That year had a lot of awards go to a lot of different movies.

  144. 144.

    Melissa

    Up here in Canada, I just turned off the Oscars to watch Republic of Doyle. Pretty good and more suspense.

  150. 150.

    Comrade Mary

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t think Wahlberg cared much for the intro. The camera caught him walking off even before the CGIed bear was disappeared — oh. They’re both back.

    That CGI tiger from Pi is still obviously CGI to my eyes, but all that fur and baggy skin and movement are beautifully done.

    Tie in sound editing: will they allow each recipient full time?

  151. 151.

    Spaghetti Lee

    My hope is that I end up with a job where I can have hair like some of these sound/FX/costume people and not take any shit for it.

  153. 153.

    cckids

    @geg6:

    Sorry folks, but there’s no such thing as a good western,

    I pretty much agree. My brother loves them & watches them all the time. He didn’t have kids till he was 45 so when his son was 4, dad seemed ancient. Kid asked him, after a Saturday of westerns, if, when he (dad) was a kid, was the world in color yet, or still black & white. Also, “were you on the side of the cowboys or the Indians”.

    One of my favorite nephews.

  154. 154.

    Jay C

    Great – dumb Jewish jokes from the idiot host’s sock puppet. Almost makes you wish Billy Crustal were back.

    No, not really, Billy sucked enormously: but Seth is truly setting a new low in Oscar crapitude….

  159. 159.

    Mnemosyne

    @Comrade Mary:

    That CGI tiger from Pi is still obviously CGI to my eyes, but all that fur and baggy skin and movement are beautifully done.

    G was just saying the same thing — TV CGI has really come a long way. Ted was technically impressive … though I did fast-forward past the second chunk of it.

  165. 165.

    Spaghetti Lee

    I mean, honestly, I think McFarlane’s done an OK job tonight-better than the last few years, and it’s just a hard thing to succeed at. But who on earth thought a “Hollywood is full of Jews” joke in 2013 would be funny, let alone in good taste?

  166. 166.

    Steeplejack

    I am pre-cringing because I think Anne Hathaway’s speech is going to be awful.

    ETA: “I have to thank my team.” And I wasn’t disappointed.

  171. 171.

    CaseyL

    The David Carr & Tony Scott live vlog over at NYT is much, much better than the show they’re vlogging.

  172. 172.

    Spaghetti Lee

    This is going to sound dumb, but for me the biggest surprise has been MacFarlane’s radio-voice. I never heard him talk and I guess I assumed he would sound like a raspy teenager.

  175. 175.

    UncommonSense

    I think The Departed won best picture and best director because the Academy was trying to make up for robbing Goodfellas of its rightful reward that year.

  176. 176.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Who on Earth expected a show hosted by Seth McFarlane wouldn’t have its moments of bad taste? It’s what the guy does.

  178. 178.

    Comrade Mary

    NY Times live is now asking Twitter which was the most offensive joke. “The Twitter doesn’t seem to like the boob jokes.” And both Buzzfeed and Twitter think that there’s a whiff of misogyny in the air tonight.

  180. 180.

    Suzanne

    Anne Hathaway’s dress and jewelry clash. ARRRRGH.
    And she needed something to support her boobs as she walked up the stairs.

  185. 185.

    cckids

    @eric: I have not seen it, though reading the description on Netflix, I did put it on the queue.
    I don’t hate westerns, I think I’ve been exposed to way to many mediocre ones, and they’re just not my thing.

  190. 190.

    JPL

    Okay..according to the guys that drank to much on the nytimes say this winner will win the best picture.

  198. 198.

    Mnemosyne

    G just reminded me of a bit of trivia about Seth McFarlane: he was actually scheduled to be on American Airlines Flight 11, one of the 9/11 flights, but he overslept and missed the flight because he was so hungover.

    That must be a weird headspace to be in sometimes.

  200. 200.

    Jay C

    @Comrade Mary:

    “Most tasteless joke”? So far a toss-up between Seth’s boob song in the opening, and “Ted”s “Jews in Hollywood” jape. But it ain’t over yet….

  202. 202.

    Steeplejack

    No offense to Dame Shirley Bassey, but they should have had Adele sing “Goldfinger” instead of this “Skyfall” downer.

  209. 209.

    Anne Laurie

    @GregB:

    I’m pretty outraged that Dinesh D’Souzas film wasn’t nominated for best documentary.

    You will never be as outraged as Mr. D’Souza over that. I think he’s pre-written his obituary to include the phrase “unfairly cheated out of his hard-earned Oscar by the liberal Communist anti-Americans in Hollywood” prominently.

  210. 210.

    Shana

    This is without a doubt, the worst directed Oscars I’ve ever seen. What they just did with the sound levels on “Skyfall” was amateurish.

  213. 213.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jay C:

    I was okay with the “boobs” song, though it went on WAY too long and did not get increasingly funny. I think the “South Park” guys are the only ones who can continually top themselves in funny-yet-offensive songs.

    I fast-forwarded through the teddy bear once the “J” word came up. So there’s my opinion.

  214. 214.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    The other thing he does is meta-comedy. I think the joke was an example of that. His inner voice was telling him, “Heh. They expect bad taste? Okay, I’ll do run of the mill bad taste rather than OTT bad taste.” The lameness of it all- like Norm MacDonald’s master class in meta-comedy (and this link is audio only- the reactions of the on-stage participants add to it) at the Bob Saget roast- is the joke.

  216. 216.

    YellowJournalism

    I love Adele, but her dress did not fit the context of the performance. Plus, it made me dizzy when they pulled back.

    I’m a sucker for Bond songs. The World Is Not Enough was one of my favorites.

  222. 222.

    Mnemosyne

    Also, I like that they’re grouping the Best Picture nominees into clumps rather than insisting on doing a separate presentation for each. It’s making the show move much more quickly.

  223. 223.

    rda909

    Adele had surgery on her vocals cords not too long along. There’s worry that she’ll never be back to where she was. I’m not sure it was an audio mixing problem…she’s unfortunately not back 100%, and might not ever be back to where she was a couple years.
    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/11/entertainment/la-et-0211-grammy-voice-20120211

    She seems like a good person I hope she either recovers back to pre-surgery level, or finds her new normal.

  225. 225.

    Spaghetti Lee

    @Comrade Mary:

    I thought the second one was actually pretty funny because he made the joke about himself-some old girlfriend he hasn’t gotten over. Way I saw it, anyway.

    The boobs song was just stupid and dragging.

  228. 228.

    hilts

    I will carry this firm belief to the grave.

    Citizen Kane should have beaten How Green Was My Valley
    Reds should have beaten Chariots of Fire
    Network should have beaten Rocky
    Orson Welles should have beaten Gary Cooper for best actor
    Peter O’Toole should have beaten Gregory Peck for best actor
    Al Pacino should have beaten Art Carney for best actor

  229. 229.

    Comrade Mary

    Fucking hell, Kristen Stewart, borrow a fucking brush. And put some fucking inflection in your voice.

  231. 231.

    PsiFighter37

    @rda909: If she can’t sing as well as she used to, I’m sure there’s some production software that can fix it. If there’s software out there that can make Kanye West sound like he’s doing a passing resemblance of singing, I’m sure it can help Adele out.

    /real music is dead

  234. 234.

    freelancer

    Kristen Stewart wearing the dress she picked out special because it makes you walk like an 8th grade boy with “swag”.

  235. 235.

    Suzanne

    I want the little girl from “Beasts of the Southern Wild” to win, because her puppy purse is ADORABLE.

  236. 236.

    Todd

    @Comrade Mary:

    Fucking hell Kristen Stewart, borrow a fucking brush. And put some fucking inflection in your voice.

    Cut her some slack. As a sparkley vampire, she just woke up.

    Of course, this is the only way she’ll get up on the Oscar stage…

  239. 239.

    PsiFighter37

    @Todd: But did she come up on stage with Robert Pattinson? The tabloids tell me that is all that fuckin’ matters.

  240. 240.

    cckids

    @freelancer:

    Kristen Stewart wearing the dress she picked out special because it makes you walk like an 8th grader with “swag

    She’s limping, she damaged her ankle some way. She arrived on crutches, but, I’m sure would rather crawl out than use them on stage.

    Not that I blame her, tho you’d think she’d get her vampire guy to carry her around or something.

  241. 241.

    Mnemosyne

    Hmm, they did the Jean Hersholt Award and all of the other honorary Oscars off-stage this year.

    Can’t help wondering if it was to prevent the audience from throwing things at Jeffrey Katzenberg, but maybe it’s my studio rivalry talking.

  242. 242.

    Anne Laurie

    @Mnemosyne:

    G just reminded me of a bit of trivia about Seth McFarlane: he was actually scheduled to be on American Airlines Flight 11, one of the 9/11 flights, but he overslept and missed the flight because he was so hungover.

    Ben Affleck & Gwyneth Paltrow already did that movie. I liked Bounce — one of Affleck’s best, IMO, and even Paltrow didn’t get on my nerves for once. Also that guy, whatshisname, that was still maturing from “Darlene’s tv boyfriend” to Indy writer-director Fave.

  245. 245.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @YellowJournalism:

    Oh, Jebus…Did you see her arc on 30 Rock? If the jokes about her weren’t related to the character being a very-sexy-but-observant Roman Catholic, they were about her character mangling English.

  247. 247.

    Mnemosyne

    G keeps reminding me that all of the Cool Kids tonight have beards, so I guess I have to get used to his.

  248. 248.

    Steeplejack

    @JGabriel:

    One of my favorite parts, I’m not embarrassed to admit.

    They did a longer, similar montage on TCM at the end of the year that was very good.

  249. 249.

    Robert

    In Memoriam without the really disturbing popularity polling this year? Very classy without the applause-o-meter.

  251. 251.

    Comrade Mary

    Dead Roll Call: Hamlisch last so they could bring out Streisand, I guess. Fits tonight’s theme.

  252. 252.

    YellowJournalism

    @Anne Laurie: Are you talking about Johnny Galecki? I loved him in The Opposite of Sex. It was a wonderful surprise.

    Say what you want about Barbara Streisand, but the woman still has it.

  254. 254.

    CaseyL

    I was going to say something about Barbra’s voice not being what it was, but then I looked up her birthday. She’s 70. For 70, she sounds pretty good.

  255. 255.

    dance around in your bones

    @JGabriel: They were all my friends, and they died!

    I remember being in India in the 80’s and seeing a wrapped corpse being carried down to the Ganges, and I broke into tears, and my traveling companion said “Hey, it’s just a people who died, right?”

    Ok, total non sequitur. But it’s what came to mind.

  256. 256.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yutsano:

    His is better than that — he keeps it trimmed. I think he just got tired of shaving, though he did also enjoy showing up at Christmas to horrify my mom with it.

  257. 257.

    Elizabelle

    @Steeplejack:

    Yes, I liked TCM’s montage.

    Tipping a glass to Jack Klugman and Charles Durning.

    I feel like they left a lot of folks out, but cannot think who just now …

  260. 260.

    Spaghetti Lee

    @DCLaw1:

    the way she exaggerates the ends of lines in her songs

    Some might call this nitpicking.

    For the record, 1) I like Adele, and 2) yeah, she’s probably kind of overpraised. I think it might be a function of contemporary pop music having pretty much nothing else going for it, talent-wise.

  261. 261.

    Jay C

    @CaseyL:

    Heh beat me to it: I though Barbra looked and sounded pretty good: and who else is really going to do Marvin Hamlisch the right homage….

  262. 262.

    cckids

    The Guardian liveblog calls “The Way We Were” annoyingly moving. I agree, I HATE that song, & yet found myself tearing up a little, dammit. I am old.

  263. 263.

    JGabriel

    @Comrade Mary:

    Hamlisch last so they could bring out Streisand…

    For some reason I always remember the first line of that song as “Scattered pitchers / Of Koolaid on the lawn …”

    .

  265. 265.

    CaseyL

    I do not watch reality shows.

    But Hollywood stars doing high-dives?

    Might have to give that one a look-see.

    @JGabriel: That is *brilliant.* I’d love to hear your version.

  267. 267.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    My wife said that they did a good job with makeup on the Crypt Keeper. This was said when Streisand took the stage.

    Meowwwwwww!

  274. 274.

    eemom

    Goodfellas should have beaten Dances with Wolves.

    sweet Jaysus, either I have entered a time warp in addition to being an alien, or the suckage of this suckfest has gotten to the point that they are repurposing 20+ year old films to give awards to. WTF is the “category”?

    eta: Anyway my kids explained to me who Seth McFarlane is, so there’s that.

  276. 276.

    Comrade Mary

    Norah Jones looks and sounds gorgeous, but seems terrified.

    Skyfall wins, and they disclose Adele’s Secret Last Name!

  279. 279.

    Yutsano

    @eemom: I think JC is just grousing about past Oscar injustices. I think. I’m not watching so cannot be entirely certain.

    @Comrade Mary: Doesn’t that, like, violate the Geneva Convention, or something?

  282. 282.

    Steeplejack

    Not saying people should die, but the “In Memoriam” roll call seemed a little threadbare this year. Lots of “marketing executives,” even a “re-recording mixer executive.” Bah.

    ETA: I have fallen behind because I had to go get a drink and a snack to sustain myself.

  284. 284.

    SFAW

    @eric:

    cckids: do yourself a favor and watch it.

    Seconded. A great film.

    Just make sure you see it sub-titled, not dubbed. (Although, frankly, I don’t know if you can even GET a dubbed version.)

  285. 285.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @cckids:

    I thought it was part of JC’s ongoing “I’m Old and In Pain” series of posts, this one because it reminds him of the time he broke his hand punching the wall.

  286. 286.

    dance around in your bones

    @Steeplejack:

    Yeah, I’d never heard of 3/4 of the people who died.

    Then again, I usually have never seen 3/4 of the movies they are giving awards to, so there’s that.

  291. 291.

    Mnemosyne

    I think the screenwriting winner is thinking, “Holy shit, I just beat a Pulitzer Prize winner!”

  294. 294.

    The Dangerman

    @Mike E:

    It’s good to be Dustin Hoffman!

    Charlize is either really tall or he’s much shorter than I expected (or he was bending over to get closer to the rack).

  297. 297.

    YellowJournalism

    Charlize Theron can show some of these other actresses how to pull of elegance. Dustin Hoffman looked like a Hobbit.

    Every time Argo wins for something, I get pissed thinking about how Affleck didn’t get nominated. Wouldn’t have cared if he won, but he deserved a nom.

    Actually surprised at Django win!!!! And happy!

  307. 307.

    Comrade Mary

    The Guardian’s Xan Brooks hasn’t commented for 9 minutes. Can someone check the loo and make sure that he isn’t crying buckets in there?

    … oh thank god, he’s back.

  308. 308.

    Steeplejack

    Renée Zellweger looks baked, or possibly she’s still in recovery from being in a relationship with Jim Carrey.

  311. 311.

    JGabriel

    Has anyone else noticed that the best screenplay award often goes to the actual best film, the one people still watch and talk about years later, rather than the best film award?

    .

  314. 314.

    Jay C

    @The Dangerman:

    IMDB says Dustin is 5’5-1/2″ and Charlize 5’9-1/2″, but, even considering she must have wearing ginormous heels, that looked like a lot more than a 4-inch difference. But, as you point out, Dustin got the better view by far…..

  317. 317.

    rda909

    Big winner tonight? James Franco.

    Now he’s not the worst Oscars host ever. Not even close. Seth McFarlane is easily worst ever, not just of the Oscars, but any major awards show ever. I’m almost in shock about how bad he is.

  320. 320.

    Elizabelle

    @Suzanne:

    re the puppy purse:

    Q… Wallis sounds like a great kid. Not spoiled; down to earth.

    I love that she’s carrying that puppy purse too.

  326. 326.

    Mnemosyne

    @artem1s:

    but will they snub Spielberg?

    Oh, they love to snub Spielberg. They did it right up until he forced them to respect him with Schindler’s List, and they still do it.

    I mean, really, Shakespeare in Love over Saving Private Ryan? Really?

    ETA: Called it.

  329. 329.

    freelancer

    This is an Oscar telecast seemingly designed to whip wingnuts into a froth, and bore the rest of us stiff.

  336. 336.

    YellowJournalism

    Surprised at Lee’s win, but I like hearing him speak. He seems like such a warm and genuine person.

    Spielberg was probably robbed.

  337. 337.

    Tokyokie

    @Steeplejack: Great. They fit in marketing execs few outside Hollywood have heard of but overlook one of the most significant directors in postwar Japanese cinema. But then he didn’t do anything Streisand can sing or win an Oscar for making upbeat ditties out of Scott Joplin’s music.

  340. 340.

    GregB

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    I was attempting the shlocky over the top mean spirited humor that MacFarland is trucking in. Besides the time machine is screwed. The Libyans killed Doc Brown.

  342. 342.

    Mnemosyne

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Not necessarily — Best Director and Best Picture split fairly often.

    I do wonder if this is Lee’s make-up award for “Brokeback Mountain.”

    ETA: Nope, double-checked it — Lee also won Best Director for “Brokeback Mountain.”

  343. 343.

    CaseyL

    @cckids: Oh, agreed. But he wasn’t considered to have a chance next to Bigelow and Spielberg.

    @Mnemosyne: The one with the puppies and kittens and bunnies was nicely surreal. Too bad it was just for a fancy hotel.

  344. 344.

    Spaghetti Lee

    @freelancer:

    Wingnuts whip themselves into a froth. I guarantee you that BigHollywood, PJTV and the rest of the grievance-peddlers had a ‘liberal hegemony’ whine prepared for any possible combo of winners.

    Screw them, who cares what they think.

  345. 345.

    JGabriel

    @cckids:

    [Lee] is an amazing director.

    I think I would have preferred the prize go to Beasts or Django, but I certainly don’t begrudge Lee getting it. He really is a pretty great director.

  347. 347.

    Steeplejack

    @Tokyokie:

    Preaching to the choir, bro’.

    Like Elizabelle above, I can’t remember any specific names, but it seems like they left out a bunch of people that TCM saw fit to include in their end-of-year homage.

  351. 351.

    Tokyokie

    @YellowJournalism: Bah. I thought Lincoln was dreadful; it lost me in the opening minutes when it showed that apparently the entire Union Army could recite the Gettysburg Address like they were in junior-high history class. Django Unchained, by dealing with the issue of slavery in the most exploitative way imaginable, probably got closer to the heart of the issue than the consumately tasteful Spielberg ever could.

  352. 352.

    Comrade Mary

    Hey, one bright spot. They didn’t do those awkward mash notes to actors/actresses from the stage this year.

  353. 353.

    handsmile

    @Tokyokie:

    “Forget it Jake, it’s Chinatown.”

    Other than a few naughty bits from In the Realm of the Senses, do you really think (m)any Academy voters have ever seen a single film by Nagisa Oshima?

  355. 355.

    cckids

    @JGabriel: Haven’t seen them yet, all I had to go on was Pi, Miserables, Silver Linings & Lincoln.

    Of those, though I’m a musicals geek, Pi is the one that will stay with me.

  356. 356.

    Spaghetti Lee

    …Huh. I’m starting to think that the Academy used this one to say ‘Oh, so you think our picks our predictable, huh? Well, how about THIS?!’

    It’s made things interesting, although I think Emmanuelle Riva should have won.

  361. 361.

    Elizabelle

    And a dress finally claims a victim.

    Didn’t see Silver Linings, but Jennifer Lawrence was Oscar worthy in “Winter’s Bone.” Astonishing movie, made for $4 million, if memory serves.

  368. 368.

    YellowJournalism

    @Jay C: Heh. I think it would win Worst Dress at the 1993 Oscars.

    @Tokyokie: haven’t seen Lincoln yet. Really want to. Hope I won’t be disappointed, too. I love Ang Lee, though, so I wouldn’t be upset even if Lincoln is wonderful.

    Daniel Day-Lewis just made a better joke than any done by the host tonight.

  372. 372.

    Suzanne

    Mr Suzanne and I still think MacFarlane is doing well.

    “Cocaine trees as far as the eye can see.” LMAO.

  373. 373.

    Comrade Mary

    I love DDL — and GAWD, he’s still hawt — but he’s the first actor to win the award three times? Really?

    And yes, being British, he’s both emotional and witty. Best speech of the night.

  383. 383.

    CaseyL

    Wowie indeed. I didn’t know this was going to happen. Was FLOTUS presenting Best Picture announced in advance?

  387. 387.

    Tokyokie

    @Steeplejack: I think the “In Memoriam” segments have been getting worse in recent years, as I’m guessing the MPAA delegates them to know-it-all punks whose moviegoing didn’t begin before 1990. Last year, I think Harry Morgan was left out altogether (never mind that he appeared in about 100 movies) and Liz Taylor got what I considered a fairly short shrift, as did Paul Newman and Charlton Heston a couple of years before that. But when John Hughes died about three years ago, they gave him a whole friggin segment. Sorry, but Hughes’ work doesn’t have the heft or history of Taylor, Newman or Heston’s.

  393. 393.

    Mnemosyne

    Ben Affleck looks like, “Holy fuck, what just happened?!”

    There’s a lot of that going around tonight.

  410. 410.

    PsiFighter37

    Even though it’s been a long time since I’ve been a teenager, goodness, does Jennifer Garner still look hawt.

  412. 412.

    DCLaw1

    Ben Affleck making a blubbering ass of himself in front of millions almost made up for Argo winning Best Picture.

  413. 413.

    Tokyokie

    @handsmile: I’ve always considered the “In Memoriam” segment to be an acknowledgment of the significance and influence of figures on the cinematic landscape. That it now (from what I’ve read here) is more about marketing execs than important filmmakers says a lot.

  414. 414.

    Steeplejack

    @Tokyokie:

    Amen. And TCM is not as hidebound and Hollywood-o-centric as one would imagine. Their “list” always includes a number of foreign artists and “classic” ones from the old days of film.

  416. 416.

    Spaghetti Lee

    @Tokyokie:

    I think it’s more that not many super-famous people died this year.

    There were business-people in the memoriam segment, sure, but also lots of actors, directors, composers, etc.

  419. 419.

    Elizabelle

    It was a good year for movies, and this was the tackiest Oscar broadcast ever.

    Although good choices by the Academy.

    I think some of the presenters didn’t care for the tenor of the evening.

  420. 420.

    Steeplejack

    I really hate it when one recipient of a group hogs all the talk time. Looking at you, Ben Affleck’s co-producer. (I’m still behind on the DVR.)

    But it seems like it has not been so bad this year.

    ETA: Okay, after hearing Affleck, I’m thinking first producer could have taken all that time.

  421. 421.

    dance around in your bones

    Ok, so what else is on the boob tube now? Guess I have to dial around.

    Fun watching this Oscar crap with you guys, tho.

  428. 428.

    Tokyokie

    Had I been in an Oscars pool this year, Best Live Action Short might have been the only one I would have gotten right.

  429. 429.

    mai naem

    I feel bad for Steven Spielberg. Supposedly WJC went to bat for Spieberg. I guess he did win for Saving Private Ryan and Schindlers List but jeez you would think he would have won more.

  430. 430.

    DCLaw1

    @Elizabelle: I actually thought this year’s crop of movies were significantly below average, although I admit I haven’t seen Life of Pi, Lincoln, or Silver Linings yet.

  432. 432.

    freelancer

    @cckids:

    That’s Grant Heslov. He co-wrote Good Night and Good Luck with Clooney, directed him in The Men Who Stare at Goats, and is probably best remembered on film as the good guy spy who stays in the car in True Lies.

  434. 434.

    Robert

    20/24 on predictions. I psyched myself out of predicting Christoph Waltz and Zero Dark Thirty for Sound Editing while I wrote my massive predictions post. 22/24 would have gotten me some attention tomorrow later today.

  436. 436.

    YellowJournalism

    @Steeplejack: He spent less time than the first one, really. I just think its tacky that the winners of the best goddamn picture can’t even get enough time to for each producer to speak so that they can do ads and have a shitty song close the show. The best parts of the night were from the speeches! And the Sound of Music bit.

    I miss when they actually did longer clips of films with full sound during the Memorium presentation. Each year grows more and more indifferent to the passing of the great ones and their other Hollywood peers.

  437. 437.

    YellowJournalism

    @Steeplejack: He spent less time than the first one, really. I just think its tacky that the winners of the best goddamn picture can’t even get enough time to for each producer to speak so that they can do ads and have a shitty song close the show. The best parts of the night were from the speeches! And the Sound of Music bit.

    I miss when they actually did longer clips of films with full sound during the Memorium presentation. Each year grows more and more indifferent to the passing of the great ones and their other Hollywood peers.

  439. 439.

    Steeplejack

    @mai naem:

    He won for directing Schindler’s List and Saving Private Ryan, and he also got the Irving G. Thalberg Memorial Award, which is a career award for producers.

    ETA: No fair changing your comment while I’m replying to it!

  440. 440.

    Mnemosyne

    @Tokyokie:

    I definitely lost the Oscar pool at work, but I usually do. I’m a walking film encyclopedia, but I suck at guessing how the Academy thinks.

    @mai naem:

    Spielberg loses very often. It’s the downside of being a former whiz kid — there are still a lot of people in the Academy who resent how much success he had at a young age.

    IMO, the best latter-day Spielberg is Catch Me If You Can. Great, underrated film with terrific performances by Leonardo di Caprio and Christopher Walken.

    ETA: G’s vote is for Munich, which is very much about the unintended consequences of revenge.

  441. 441.

    cckids

    @mai naem: He won for Schindler’s List.

    I don’t always like his over-the-top style of directing, but FSM knows Hollywood has honored many people who were way, way worse at it (yes, Costner, that is another smack at you). And, as far as directing goes, E.T. was much better than Ghandi.

    You people are much too fast.

  442. 442.

    Spaghetti Lee

    @YellowJournalism:

    I think it arose from people complaining that the Oscars are too long, and, well, it’s not like you can cut the things actually getting awards that night.

    Maybe a super-extended memoriam was too depressing.

  444. 444.

    DCLaw1

    @Mnemosyne:

    IMO, the best latter-day Spielberg is Catch Me If You Can. Great, underrated film with terrific performances by Leonardo di Caprio and Christopher Walken.

    Agreed.

  446. 446.

    handsmile

    @Tokyokie:

    “That it now…is more about marketing execs than important filmmakers…”

    From my perspective, the same thing could be said about most of the major award winners tonight. Argo!?

    (Didn’t/don’t watch the Oscars “ceremony”; have been reading this thread and the Guardian’s “live blog” for the past half-hour or so.)

  448. 448.

    mainmati

    I guess everyone here is asleep because Michelle Obama announced the Best Picture Award and all of the Rightwingers’ brains (such as they are) simultaneously exploded.

  450. 450.

    Yutsano

    @Librarian: Corn starch. I have some in my kitchen. But it was also the ship Jason used in his famous adventures. I don’t know if that has any relation to the movie however.

  453. 453.

    YellowJournalism

    @Spaghetti Lee: I feel with each presentation that the ceremony is rushed more and more overall. I think there needs to be a rule that they can’t make jokes about it being too long anymore unless they allow it to go over 4 hours.

  454. 454.

    JGabriel

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    It’s made things interesting, although I think Emmanuelle Riva should have won.

    I’m with you. I like Lawrence, and knew she would probably get the award given all the Oscar buzz, but … I really wanted Emanuelle Riva to get it.

    Lawrence and Wallis both have years ahead of them. Riva might not be doing films that much longer, and as one of the great French actresses, she would have deserved it.

    .

  455. 455.

    Violet

    @Mnemosyne:

    IMO, the best latter-day Spielberg is Catch Me If You Can. Great, underrated film with terrific performances by Leonardo di Caprio and Christopher Walken.

    I love that film. I think it’s one of Di Caprio’s very best performances. Tom Hanks is great in it as well. And Christopher Walken is wonderful.

  456. 456.

    cckids

    @Yutsano: Nope, its just the name of the fake movie they pretend to be filming.

    I wouldn’t have voted it the Oscar, but I enjoyed Argo at the theater. It was entertaining, which is why I go to the movies.

  457. 457.

    dance around in your bones

    Ok, just started watching ‘SNL in the 2000’s’ and saw Tina Fey pushing a balloon animal through her legs at a kid….

    Sorry, got distracted for a moment.

  458. 458.

    Elizabelle

    @mai naem:

    The year Spielberg won Best Director for “Private Ryan”, “Life is Beautiful” walked away with a (surprise?) Oscar for Best Picture.

    Maybe people remember that snub?

    I’d forgotten he did win the directing award; just remembered he didn’t get the big one (and that an Italian guy who climbed over seatbacks in the auditorium did).

    Do any of you remember the Italian dude’s name without Google?

  459. 459.

    Steeplejack

    @Mnemosyne:

    My problem with Spielberg is that, while he is arguably the most technically skillful Hollywood director working, his emotional/aesthetic sensibility feels like it stopped developing at about age 15. He doesn’t do nuance, and I’m having a hard time remembering any memorable female characters in his films (aside from The Color Purple, about which see above, nuance).

  465. 465.

    DCLaw1

    @Steeplejack: Yeah, his sentimentalism is often cloying and ham-handed. I also tire of the camera-moving-up-to-characters’-faces-as-they-stare-in-wonder-at-something shot.

  466. 466.

    Steeplejack

    @Elizabelle:

    Roberto Begnini. And I swear I didn’t check Google. I have liked him ever since a couple of early comedies, Johnny Stecchino and another one I can’t remember the name of.

    He was also in a dreadfully bad Pink Panther movie that was worse than the Steve Martin remakes–hard as that is to believe, I know.

  468. 468.

    lojasmo

    I watched about thirty minutes at the end. After eating thai food at a downtown St. Paul restaurant, I went to the bar to have a couple beers while waiting for the wife and kid to land at MSP.

    There were three TOTALLY wasted douchebags at the bar. Whenever a marginally attractive woman took the stage, they would say “I’d eat her pu$$ee”.

    They invited every woman who walked into the joint to sit at the bar. Surprisingly, no takers.

    Seth was lackluster. Surprising.

  469. 469.

    Elizabelle

    Ah, so you do remember the “Life is Beautiful” director.

    Never saw that one. (“Gods and Monsters” was my favorite movie that year.)

    Do you recommend seeing “Life”?

  470. 470.

    Mnemosyne

    @Elizabelle:

    And I’ll be the first one to correct you — Begnini won for Best Actor, not Best Picture. “Shakespeare in Love” won for Best Picture.

  471. 471.

    Elizabelle

    @Mnemosyne:

    Corrected. Thank you.

    Didn’t that year have duelling “Shakespeare” movies?

    Should look it up; sounds like it was a good one for movies.

  472. 472.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steeplejack:

    My problem with Spielberg is that, while he is arguably the most technically skillful Hollywood director working, his emotional/aesthetic sensibility feels like it stopped developing at about age 15.

    I’ve really gotta disagree with you. Minority Report and Catch Me If You Can are very sophisticated movies aesthetically. Even War of the Worlds is aesthetically pretty amazing, even if it’s not a great film. That scene when Tom Cruise’s character opens the door and sees the landscape turning red looks like something from a Mario Bava flick.

  474. 474.

    handsmile

    @Elizabelle

    Yes, do see Life is Beautiful sometime. It’s a finely-realized, emotionally fraught film with a poignant, sometimes jarring, use of comedy to address its grim subject matter. As I remember, it had one of the most deceptive advertising campaigns ever at the time of its American release.

  476. 476.

    Steeplejack

    @Mnemosyne:

    Perhaps we don’t disagree that much. I didn’t mean aesthetic as in “visual” or “nice-looking.” Spielberg’s movies are always visually top-notch. I meant aesthetic in the philosophical or artsy sense: nuance, taste, reflection or meditation on culture, society or “issues.” Spielberg’s movies typically have a “shallow” feel to me that is masked by the excellent visuals.

  477. 477.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steeplejack:

    I meant aesthetic in the philosophical or artsy sense: nuance, taste, reflection or meditation on culture, society or “issues.” Spielberg’s movies typically have a “shallow” feel to me that is masked by the excellent visuals.

    My argument against that argument is Saving Private Ryan and Munich. I still don’t know how the hell some people turned Ryan into some kind of jingoistic celebration of war in their heads, but it has a lot to say about the futility of war, IMO.

    I will agree that he’s not good with women or contemporary issues, but I think he does more than he gets credit for and he’s one of the few filmmakers willing to tackle some of them. There are scenes of the Middle Passage in Amistad that still haunt me.

    ETA: You could maybe argue that Spielberg is not a great artist like Bunuel, but I think he’s about as good as you’re going to get in someone whose films also appeal to a mass audience. He’s at a minimum Hitchcock’s equal, and probably his superior.

  479. 479.

    freelancer

    @Mnemosyne:

    This. Ryan began and ended on the American Flag, but had a lot to say about the moral ambiguity of even waging a just war.

    Munich was not a simple film. It lives and breathes nuance. Sure, you can see that Spielberg himself in his filming of violence absolutely is repulsed by it on an individual basis (the Israeli dormitory, the matter of fact pop-gun shooting of the hitwoman pitted against them), but even he is willing to frame the film in such a way that supposes that violence is a possible moral response to violence/terrorism. The whole film makes you uncomfortable because the world hasn’t resolved this question yet.

  480. 480.

    Mnemosyne

    @Smiling Mortician:

    That’s what I get for not checking IMDb — thanks!

    ETA: Though I am amused to look and see that the horrible older man that Gwyneth Paltrow is going to be forced to marry is … Colin Firth. Oh, no, don’t throw me in that briar patch.

  481. 481.

    Steeplejack

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m not saying he hasn’t made some great movies. Schindler’s List and Saving Private Ryan are two monumental treatments of the horror of World War II, but the emotional palette is pretty limited. War is hell. Okay, got it. The first half-hour of Ryan and the last battle sequence are masterpieces of filmmaking, but in the middle of the movie there are some “character development” scenes that would have been thrown out of a ’40s war movie as too clunky. The Thin Red Line, for example, is a lesser war movie in which the main characters nonetheless feel more substantial than Spielberg’s–to me, at least.

    You could maybe argue that Spielberg is not a great artist [. . .], but I think he’s about as good as you’re going to get in someone whose films also appeal to a mass audience.

    I agree with both these points. Spielberg is a great moviemaker but not a great artist. But one of my frustrations with him is that, for someone who is preëminent in Hollywood and so powerful, he is so reluctant to step out of his predictably comfortable zone and try something that would really amaze us.

  482. 482.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steeplejack:

    I dunno — Hollywood directors do not have a good track record of doing things outside of their comfort zone that amaze, well, anyone. I’m thinking of Coppola and One From the Heart, or Scorsese and Kundun.

    What exactly are you picturing having him do?

  483. 483.

    Cacti

    I saw someone mentioned Denzel winning for Training Day, which wasn’t his best work. In that spirit…

    The biggest ever “we fucked up not giving this guy the award a long time ago” for acting was Al Pacino for Scent of a Woman but not for The Godfather I or II.

  485. 485.

    Steeplejack

    @Mnemosyne:

    I dunno. I just don’t picture Spielberg having much of an inner life.

    Perhaps not a great comparison, but Steven Soderbergh has done a pretty good job of walking the Hollywood line between big movies and quirky projects. But he started out in independent film, whereas Spielberg’s first movie was a Hollywooden-to-the-core TV movie. Very well done and very successful, true. But Spielberg has seemingly never existed outside the Hollywood hive mind.

    Empire of the Sun and Catch Me if You Can were promising semi-departures.

  487. 487.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steeplejack:

    I just don’t picture Spielberg having much of an inner life.

    I wouldn’t say that, exactly, but he does have some odd inner repressions and has always used his films to work through some of his personal obsessions. He has always said that Close Encounters of the Third Kind was an attempt to deal with the emotional fallout of his parents’ divorce, and Schindler’s List happened because he was trying to get back in touch with Judaism. Munich was pretty obviously his attempt to respond to 9/11. Etc.

    He recently went public with the fact that he has a lifelong learning disability (dyslexia), which he apparently only found out a few years ago. It may be interesting to see if that frees him in any way.

  488. 488.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steeplejack:

    Except that The Age of Innocence takes place in New York City, where Scorsese has always been most comfortable. ;-)

    Scorsese is probably a greater artist than Spielberg, which is something they would both happily admit. But Spielberg can speak to a much larger audience than Scorsese can and can sell them even on depressing material like Schindler’s List, which I think is a gift in itself.

  489. 489.

    Steeplejack

    @Mnemosyne:

    Hah! Now you’re just trolling. The New York of The Age of Innocence is a world apart from Scorsese’s usual New York–even the city of Gangs of New York.

  490. 490.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steeplejack:

    I’m kind of serious about it — he really loves New York and its history, so I do think that helped draw him to the story. I do think Scorsese has a comfort zone and Age of Innocence was inside it because of the NYC setting.

    Similarly with The Aviator (which I think is Scorsese’s most underrated great film), which was inside his comfort zone because it was about classic Hollywood, which is a subject he is very comfortable with.

  491. 491.

    Mnemosyne

    I really want to stay awake and see if we can crack 500 in a thread that doesn’t have everyone calling each other assholes, but I also have to work in the morning. :-( Oh, well.

  492. 492.

    Steeplejack

    @Mnemosyne:

    Well, my last contribution. The housecat has puffed her eyes up to look like she hasn’t slept in a week.

    The Age of Innocence was a departure because Scorsese was thought to be a “macho” director, and the “teacups and doilies” background and the treatment of the (strong) female characters were new territory for him.

  494. 494.

    Steeplejack (tablet)

    Okay, this is really the end for me. The housecat is standing on my chest demanding all devices off.

  496. 496.

    Dream On

    Didn’t Shakespeare in Love win one year? I would have preferred any other nominated film to that. Christ I hated it, would rather watch Dances With Wolves on auto-repeat.

  497. 497.

    Jamey

    @Steeplejack: Great visual artist; lousy storyteller. I mean fucking awful storyteller. Even when he has the chance to keep the camera rolling and let the viewers “feel,” he cannot help but manipulate our emotions and tell us how to feel.

    es. g.: The “tell me I was a good man” bits from Private Ryan; the child with the red coat at the end of Schindler’s List; 179 of 180 minutes of A.I.; etc. Bleagh! I’m getting pissed off just thinking about it.

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