Kevin Drum is not a fan favorite around here, but I think his take on the sequester is about right:
- Republicans don’t actually hate the sequester all that much. It’s a trillion dollars in spending cuts! What’s not to like?
- I don’t think public pressure to repeal the sequester is going to be that strong, especially in red districts. Republicans can ride it out for the next few months, and the specific cuts will all be renegotiated in the next budget cycle.
- I don’t think Republicans really care that much about entitlement reforms. Sure, they’re in favor of them, sort of, as long as there’s bipartisan cover, but it’s mostly just big talk. They’re keenly aware of the political danger of cutting Social Security and Medicare, especially since seniors are part of their core base. Besides, Obama is offering fairly modest entitlement cuts and they’re mostly not the kind conservatives are interested in.
- In any case, who cares? Even if they hate the sequester; even if public pressure is strong; even if they do want entitlement reforms—even if all those things are true, they come in a distant 83rd place to Republican hostility toward tax increases. It doesn’t matter if the tax increases come from raising rates or limiting deductions, either. They’re opposed to them no matter what.
One other point that I heard recently (forgot where) is that there are a bunch of Republicans who were elected to Congress in 2006 or later who aren’t McCain/Graham-style war-mongers, so the sequester cuts to Defense spending aren’t the poison pill that they were sold as during the negotiations that led to the sequester.
So what we have is a Congress populated by Republicans who want to see things burn, standing around a sequester-initiated fire. The question I have is whether Republicans will be able to engineer legislative solutions to the sequester-related inconveniences that will enrage their white middle-class constituents. The outlines for what they’re going to try has already passed the House–it basically keeps the sequester in place but juggles the cuts to protect pet Republican projects. That bill will probably get amended into something the rump of the House can’t stomach, but at some point the GOP will come up with a bill or set of bills that will take most of the punch out of the sequester cuts. For example, are Democrats going to line up to vote against a bill that orders DHS to keep TSA fully staffed while cutting “administrative overhead” to the bone in the face of sequestration-related airport lines?
This is pure 20/20 hindsight from someone who didn’t even think the sequester would actually happen, but right now it looks like Democrats threw the Republicans in the briar patch when they made the sequester deal. If we ever get them out, it will be after they’ve gotten a fair amount of what they wanted with minimal additional political damage.
Del
You didn’t expect the sequester to happen? Why the hell not? The moment the “grand bargain” failed I thought it was obvious the GOP had every intention of pulling out their fiddle while the country burned.
Todd
I like the idea of hideously long airport lines and missed flights. That will hit the business side of white America where it lives – screwing up business trips and vacation travel.
Baud
Well, if that’s right then defense still gets cut and entitlement cuts are off the table. I’m done playing gloomy Gus. Bring on sequester nation.
Todd
Other good parts on the business side – fucking with military procurement. Those contractors and their employed wingnut engineers are going to start feeling pain.
ruemara
Considering that there was a very large error in the issue of whether or not the sequester would really happen; also considering that this is merely speculation; why should I react with any level of woe to your and Kevin’s thoughts? We’ll see what we will see. All the rest of it is written equivalent of, well, “gloomporn”.
Redshirt
OT, but I love sharing good Maine stories. From today’s Portland Press Herald about a town about to vote requiring everyone in town own a gun.
danielx
This should come as a surprise roughly on the order of leaves turning in the fall. It’s not like the nihilist tendencies of the Teabaggers – hell, let’s just say Republicans – haven’t been on full display for some time now, starting about 45 seconds after inauguration day 2009. Curiously enough, and I’m sure entirely by coincidence, that was right about the time when TEH DEFICIT OH HORRORS became a major concern…
Anyhoo, the whole sequester and raising the debt limit debacle put Republican rabidity in the spotlight, in all its dubious glory. The idea that it would be a Bad Thing if the country defaulted (and unconstitutional to boot, that whole full faith and credit business) doesn’t register with them, oddly enough for people who keep comparing the U.S. budget with a household budget. The Law of Unintended Consequences is a foreign concept to them.
Congressional Republicans, with some few exceptions, are not interested in constructive efforts to solve problems – they want to burn the motherfucker down, to use the old 60s phrase. And why not? For most of them, given the nature of their gerrymandered districts, it’s not like they’re going to pay an electoral penalty. Which is where Obama fucked up; you can’t negotiate with people who are not interested in negotiating.
Jinchi
Even if all those things are true, they come in a distant 83rd place to Republican hostility toward tax increases on rich people.
Republicans are perfectly happy raising taxes on everybody else, which is why our Social Security tax rate went back up this year.
Randy P
Well, a couple of data points of evidence against this:
1. This week a Republican congressman Blake Farenthold, from the Corpus Christie, TX area introduced a bill to stop federal furloughs. Last week the Republicans were cheering sequesters and furloughs. Then that happens.
Even though looking at the map I can’t find military bases in Farenthold’s district, I know there’s a lot of federal money in Texas and I figured Farenthold must have gotten a lot of angry calls over the weekend saying “Hey, stupid, some of those people you’re laying off are your voters”
2. The Republicans in the House passed a budget which reduces the sequester pressure on DoD. Of course, it leaves all the cuts in place for the non-DoD agencies. This seems to contradict the claim that DoD is no longer a Republican sacred cow.
But as for this:
I’m gonna go full-on Obot here. I think there are a few unplayed dimensions in this n-dimensional chess game. I don’t think the Republicans are going to end up net winners here.
Davis X. Machina
@Redshirt: People who don’t get north or west of the Turnpike much think of this as a resolutely blue state, chock-full of goo-goo moderate Republicans, and Democrats of either the Franco-mill-town union or up-from-Mass varieties.
When you go somewhere where the only seagulls are at the
dumptransfer station, it’s Kentucky, just colder.RSA
@Todd:
Another military thing–the Army and the Marines have suspended the Tuition Assistance program for active duty and reserve personnel. I’ve been hearing about this from military friends. They’re not happy, and I can understand why, given that recruitment has emphasized education in and out of the system for as long as I can remember.
Poopyman
@Todd:
Why do you assume only wingnuts in the defense industry? Are you going to cede the entire defense of the country to those nuts? Thanks!
FWIW, the contractors are already feeling pain. I’m going to be laid off this week because of the sequester.
Todd
@Poopyman:
Ugh. I’m sorry to hear that. Sadly, my experience with contractors has been that they seem monolithically wingnutty.
schrodinger's cat
@Redshirt: I lived in Maine for 9 years but I haven’t even heard of the name of this town, what is the population of this place.
Poopyman
@Todd: The ones who express their opinions are, no surprises there. But if you scratch the surface you can find us liberals in the mix.
Fact is, I’d rather be back at NASA, but that money dried up with Reagan and the science budget has gotten short shrift ever since. Now TimF and DougJ have posted about the state of science under the sequester, and I’m not hopeful I can get back there now.
Davis X. Machina
@schrodinger’s cat: Population is 150, 170, around there somewhere. There was a similar ‘ordnance ordinance’ passed in another Maine small town back in 1994.
OmerosPeanut
The economic downturn that may result from this added bit of austerity will be blamed on Obama, because the way the media portrays things you’d assume the executive branch has the power of the purse.
I’m with Drum on this. For the Tea Party wing of the Republicans, there is very little to dislike about the sequester so long as they can avoid being blamed for its fallout.
Schlemizel
“Fish Gotta Swim, Birds Gotta Fly
But they don’t last long if they try”
– Tom Lehrer
Redshirt
@Davis X. Machina: While true, I’d like to say there’s plenty of earthy-crunchy hippy types in Northern/Western Maine too, and a good smattering of “leave me alone” types. It isn’t all rednecks.
For a proof, look at the town by town results of the 2012. Obama won a surprising amount of these rural, small towns. Here.
For example, my man Barack Obama won this town in question (Byron) 39-37
Tokyokie
@Randy P: NAS Corpus Christi comes to mind. And the Rio Grande Valley has a high number of military retirees who would be using the BX and other facilities there.
Alex
Well yeah, the sequester was the Republican briar patch. Because that was their demand for allowing the debt ceiling to go up.
The ultimate lesson from the sequester is that Democrats should never propose how to fix the problem to match the Republican’s demands.
JPL
If the polling hurts the President, Republicans will gloat. They’re not interested in a strong economy.
Davis X. Machina
@Redshirt: My town is a 63-37 reliable GOP exurb. Too urban for the llama-farmin’ MOFGA types, too rural for the MPBN members.
A whole lot of one-truck contractors and lower middle-management types, with 45-minute commutes in 16 mpg trucks and SUV’s together with a passionate commitment to school reform — so long as it promises to improve the football team.
LePage country, in other words. Six gas stations, five fundamentalist, full-gospel, or evangelical churches.
Gas prices. Mill rates. Sex ed. That’s the extent of their political world.
Hill Dweller
Ryan was on Fox this morning saying they’re going to double down on defunding Obamacare. To his credit, Chris Wallace called it a pipe dream, but they’re going to try.
My hope is Obama starts publicly and repeatedly asking how the wingnuts justify intentionally hurting the economy.
As an aside, the Village’s coverage of the sequester is the exact opposite of local news. Local coverage is far more dire, which might move some of the wingnuts.
Bobby Thomson
Duh.
Steeplejack
@schrodinger’s cat:
Population 140, according to the article.
Davis X. Machina
@Hill Dweller:
The answer, which the wingnuts won’t give, not because they fear the repercussions, but because their audience has already internalized it, rendering restatement redundant:
The present government is illegitimate, unGodly, and un-American, because its executive branch is in Democratic hands, and the Senate has a Democratic majority. An American government, before it can govern with legitimacy, has to be a Godly, and therefore a Republican one.
Until the restoration of legitimate government, obstruction is patriotic. King against Commons. Idolatry against true reformed religion….
American politics can’t be understood without acknowledging the persistence of attitudes and beliefs in this country that are grounded in the English Civil War.
rikyrah
stupid muthafuckas who don’t wanna look at reality.
the reason you don’t have a job is because of the SOBs who you voted for……dumb asses.
WereBear
Wingnuts won’t care when government works badly; they expect that, and use it as an excuse to reduce “government” further.
But I’m hoping more of the electorate can connect “suffering” with “Republican,” if it comes to that.
rikyrah
the GOP has been committing ECONOMIC TREASON against this country since 1.20.2009.
they have been wanting to push us into austerity because they want to blame if on the President and Dems.
handsmile
@Redshirt: , @Davis X. Machina:
How likely is it that LePage will be a one-term governor/embarrassment?
Also at the PPH site today, there’s a disquieting story of a gun rights rally yesterday in Wiscasset (of all places, which might just be the point). Not many of those quoted were locals, though there was an accompanying photo of a 13-year old girl from Jefferson brandishing a handmade sign, “Gun Free Zones Make Me A Target.”
Any possible chance that recent gun safety proposals will pass in the Maine state legislature?
Redshirt
@handsmile: LePage is widely unpopular, but has managed to keep a 30% or so approval rate – close to his election totals.
Sadly, another 3 way race for Governor is shaping up again, and polls indicate LePage could win in such a scenario.
The Maine legislature – after a Republican takeover in 2010 – was entirely reclaimed by the Democratic Party in 2012. However, there is still LePage. So there will be bluster and vetoes and the like, but I’d say the odds are good of some level of gun regulation. Better odds, however, of a full marijuana decriminalization law like in CO and WA. For some perspective.
Patricia Kayden
“The question I have is whether Republicans will be able to engineer legislative solutions to the sequester-related inconveniences that will enrage their white middle-class constituents.”
What are the inconveniences that will enrage their white middle class constituents? Hardcore T’Baggers who vote Republican will be okay with the sequester no matter what.
Hypatia's Momma
Apropos of everything: The two political writers I wish were still with us are George Orwell and Molly Ivins.
I also wonder what Buckley Jr. would make of it all.
Yutsano
@Patricia Kayden: Airport lines, for one. Solving tax issues, for another, although the IRS delayed any furloughs until after filing season. But we’re also doing zero enforcement right now too, so a lot of tax cheaters are getting away with it. But hey, why fund the agency that brings in eight dollars for every dollar spent on it amirite?
donnah
I live in a city with an Air Force base and have family here and at Cape Canaveral in Florida. It’s easy to be dismissive of military cuts unless you work for the military. My cousin and brother-in-law are good guys with young kids who don’t make a million dollars and will be facing some steep cuts. They may lose their jobs entirely.
And they aren’t blaming Boehner and the Republicans. They blame Obama and the Democrats.
Over the years we’ve lost GM, NCR, Mead, Frigidaire, and other businesses who got their start right here. Losing Wright Patt would be a killing blow.
Redshirt
@Davis X. Machina: And yet Obama comfortably won your town too.
Davis X. Machina
@handsmile:
I don’t see the legislation passing. If it passes, I don’t see it surviving a court challenge.
In the 1990’s the Maine state constitution was amended so that the local version of the Second Amendment (our Article 1, section 14) reads “The people’s right to keep and bear arms shall never be questioned.”
Amended by referendum. People love their guns. Get away from salt water, Maine is just Kentucky.
kay
@Hill Dweller:
It’s become more and more clear that the objections to the PPACA are centered on the low wage large employer mandate.
I think that was their ideological focus the whole time. The rest was just raw meat for the troops. The exchanges are essential for the low wage employer mandate to work, because their employees are going to be receiving federal subsidies to purchase on those exchanges, and their employers have to pay towards that.
They will fight to the end to defend the Wal Mart heirs and the pizza chains. That’s what this whole thing is about.
They’re protecting the biggest and wealthiest free loaders in the system, who are large, low wage employers.
Davis X. Machina
@Redshirt: Turnout. Pure turnout. The local version of the ‘political nation’ is resolutely GOP. The same wave election that Obama won, our local D rep was taken to a recount, in an election where everywhere else the state legislature was being turned over to D from R.
(And it’s not a candidate issue, because she had won her seat from an entrenched R in the teeth of a wave election in 2010.)
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Randy P:
Rep. Farenthold’s district encompasses NAS Corpus Christi (Four training squadrons as well as the headquarters of the Chief of Naval Air Advanced Training). The Corpus Christi Army Depot (Primary depot maintenance provider for DoD rotary wing aircraft) as well as the Coast Guard Sector Corpus Christi and a few dozen other tenant organizations are also located at NAS Corpus Christi.
EDIT: I see that tokyokie beat me to it.
Yutsano
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: All the military air show teams have been grounded. People tend to notice these things, especially going into the summer. Of course they just reflexively blame the blah guy in the White House.
rikyrah
@donnah:
I’ll say it again…
dumb asses.
plain and simple.
Mr Stagger Lee
@RSA: And the Air Force just suspended the Thunderbirds air show, for the time being. The civilians at the military base I work at are off the charts pissed, I work as a contractor and there is a manager meeting this week, to see what pain we will feel. Some of the other contractors, especially the Limbaugh/Fox News types are getting their eyes opened, especially when they find out they are not the “Job Creators” that the GOP worships. What you are not a Koch or a master of the universe? A mere small businessman? FOAD is the GOP mantra.
Hill Dweller
@donnah:
So, after four years of Republicans manufacturing hostage crises, and demanding spending cuts as ransom, they blame Obama? Is it willful ignorance?
Amir Khalid
@Davis X. Machina:
How can a state make it unconstitutional to regulate the possession of firearms when the Federal Supreme Court has allowed such regulation?
Linnaeus
It’s funny; a Facebook acquaintance of mine was complaining last week about the grounding of the Thunderbirds, and while he didn’t blame the president specifically, he blamed “government”, and since this guy identifies his political ideology as conservative and complains about government a lot, I suspect he figures the Democrats are responsible.
What made his complaint even funnier was that he proceeded to state that the money spent on the air shows spreads throughout the communities in which the shows are held – as “classic” a Keynesian case for government spending as you would read from any liberal. Yet he seems incapable of connecting the dots and seeing where the real impediment to economic stimulus lies. He sees the problem as “the government” and not “conservatives in government”. And his complaint further serves to illustrate the hypocrisy that surronds so much of the debate over government spending and “big government”. People love government spending when it’s spent on stuff they want – it’s always spending for someone else that needs to be cut, and apparently that can be cut endlessly.
Redshirt
@Davis X. Machina: Mayahps. I saw no evidence of a mighty turnout machine in the mountains of Western Maine. I find myself in the odd position of feeling more positive towards all the rednecks around me these days. They’re not Kentucky Rednecks, let’s put it that way.
There are different flavors of rednecks.
Spaghetti Lee
@Linnaeus:
I think two of the most fascinating numbers in politics are the very high number of people who think ‘government’ needs to be cut, but when you ask what specific programs need to be cut, support for cuts absolutely craters. Like from 80-20 to 20-80, even ‘lefty’ stuff like education or environmental protections. I think defense spending is the only one that even comes close to 50-50. I don’t know what these people are imagining-they must think there are vast offices full of sinister bureaucrats that do absolutely nothing useful and pull 7-figure salaries, and they’re the first ones to think about cutting them loose.
It’s been said here multiple times that the polling showed Republicans would get blamed for the sequester. That still true?
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Yutsano:
WIngnuttia started blaming Obama weeks before the sequester came into effect. According to the mainstream wingnut emails forwarded to me by an old Navy buddy, the sequester was all Obama’s idea and he didn’t do anything to stop it even though he could. The emails from the fringes of wingnuttia assert that the sequester-imposed defense cuts are all a part of Obama’s plan to weaken U.S. defenses so that we’ll fall to the Muslims, Chinese, or even the Russians.
The Republicans will suffer little to no political harm from the imposition of the sequester because the blame for any ill effects will be apportioned to Congress – but not my guy – and Obama. Any time that Democrats vote in support of legislation palatable to today’s Republicans they get fucked and fucked hard.
Tokyokie
@Linnaeus: To paraphrase Russell Long, “Don’t cut you, don’t cut me, cut that fellow behind the tree.”
Spaghetti Lee
@Davis X. Machina:
Well, Maine sure looks bluer than Kentucky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2012nationwidecountymapshadedbypercentagewon.svg
One thing I like to keep in mind is that there are Democrats (and Republicans) pretty much everywhere. Even in places where it was a pretty big margin for Romney, usually 20-40% of people voted for Obama. It’s not always a hivemind out there.
celticdragonchick
@Todd:
Because fucking over people and their families is teh awesome, right?
In other news, the college financial aid program for active duty military just vanished. My nephew was just set to start in the green to gold program to become an officer.
Davis X. Machina
@Amir Khalid: It’s a state. It’s closer to the people, it’s real America, and not to subject the the whims of pointy-headed un-elected Federal judges.
You might be able to question the people’s right to keep and bear arms in some other state, but not in God’s country.
Linnaeus
@Spaghetti Lee:
It is fascinating, and I think there’s at least a couple of things going on there. When you ask about government spending generally, people can imagine all kinds of (ill-defined) “programs” that can be cut when they see just how much money the government takes in and spends. When you ask about specific programs, that compels people to think about how they or people they know specifically benefit (or have benefitted in the past) from government spending. So people can say that we should cut “welfare”, but when you say “cut food stamps” they’ll say no because they’ll remember a time when perhaps they or someone they know had to use them and no one wants to think they’re part of the problem with respect to too much government spending.
Layered on top of all of that are the persistent racial, gender, and class biases that influence our perceptions of who gets what and who should get what.
srv
The only problem is that they’ve been blamin Obama for the sequestor, so next they’ll all be trying to take credit for it.
Look, they all want to campaign on less govt, but nobody wants a cut in their district. It’s much easier to just take your 10% off the top and blame Obama. There won’t be any major reconciliation because someone will have to suffer more than the others. Unless the blue states want to accommodate, not gonna happen. So this will be the new normal. Death spiral to mediocrity.
TGC
@rikyrah: You’re being kind. It’s racism plan and simple. Conservatives hate Democrats and liberals because they think they like and favor black people at the expense of white people. Republicans know that there is enough racism in America for them to stay viable and engage in all kinds of bullshit and get away with it. Without racism, the GOP would go the way of the Whig party in two more election cycles.
Racism is why we can’t have nice things.
Jennifer
If Democrats knew how to play the game, they would loudly & repeatedly for some time now have been making the case that families needing to pay debt down don’t refuse extra revenues. The Republicans have been making that stupid “your FAMILY has to live on a budget!” argument for years now. OK, fine, if the federal government is analogous to a family, when’s the last time any member of your family turned down a raise to help pay off the family debts? Oh, you say the federal government isn’t analogous to a family? Then why do you continue to insist that it operate as if it were one?
celticdragonchick
@RSA:
\
yeah, I just got an earful from my nephew. Bad stuff. He and his friends are ‘joking’ about taking a battery of M9 Paladins with 155 mm howitzers and doing some urban renewal in Washington.
Hill Dweller
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
But Dems didn’t vote for the sequester in the House. It passed because Republicans voted for it.
Moreover, the sequester was part of the wingnuts’ ransom for not destroying the full faith and credit of the US, and ultimately our economy.
Davis X. Machina
@Redshirt: In the exurbs and in-name-only suburbs of the cities — Sabbatus, Wales, etc, in Androscogin; Bar Mills, Buxton, Hollis in Cumberland; down around Sanford, money was being spent.
My daughter worked on the marriage equality referendum as a trainer and canvasser, and while she went back to school, some of her co-workers went over to the Obama campaign as the fall wore on because the money was slightly better and the networking much better, in terms of sticking on somewhere permanent in the politics industry. (Both the referendum and Obama looked like winners at that point.)
Spaghetti Lee
@Linnaeus:
One useful figure I’ve heard for such arguments is that approximately 2/3 of food stamp recipients are white, i.e. pretty close to the actual percentage of white people in the country. I don’t know how other groups sort out, but I doubt that one race is getting outlandish special treatment because blah blah white guilt. That’s just Fox News/spam e-mail crap.
Chris T.
@Linnaeus: Reply to him saying “I thought you wanted less government spending”.
Chris
@rikyrah:
This. I know someone at the Pentagon who’s the exact same way. I have no sympathy for her either. It’s not because she’s at the Pentagon; I know people like that at the DOJ and elsewhere too. It’s because they’re part of the problem. I have plenty of sympathy for people in all departments who’re getting screwed by this without having asked for it, but that’s not the case for people like this.
And it’s not just the fact that they’re too stupid to realize that this is what they voted for. It’s the fact that for so many of them, this is what they KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY voted for – less money and jobs for leeches and lazy bureaucrats – and just assumed that they personally would or should be spared by the purge, either because their department is special or because they personally are.
Blame my twelve years of living in DC, but I’ve met too many Rugged Individualists Sucking On The Government Teat and eager to give everyone but themselves a taste of Belt Tightening Tough Love, to have any sympathy left for them. If they want it, they can start by not trying to fuck their fellow employees.
Yutsano
@Chris T.: This is the less government spending you wanted, and you’re gonna get it good and hard.
Which I wish I could say to the next person who bitches about being on hold for 2 hours after calling the IRS. I am seriously fucking tired of that complaint as if I could just snap my fingers and make it go away just for you special snowflake.
Linnaeus
@Spaghetti Lee:
Oh, it’s total crap. But too many people believe it.
It’s really interesting how people justify why it’s okay for themselves to get government aid, but not someone else. I need it because I’m just a good person down on his luck who needs some help to get back on my feet. That other guy/gal is a lazy good-for-nothing who should be cut off immediately.
Linnaeus
@Chris T.:
I did reply, but I was a bit kinder than that. I said something like, “you’re right, communities need that money and it’s a good example of how we benefit more than we think we do from government spending during economic downturns.”
divF
@celticdragonchick:
If this was said within hearing of a responsible NCO or officer, these young’uns should be heading for at least an Article 15, if not a Court Martial. There are certain things you don’t joke about in the military, and that is one of them.
TGC
BTW, why are we basing what public perception may be on what people who are already die hard wingnuts think? Of course they blame Obama and Democrats for everything, they always do. And of course the MSM is playing the “both sides do it” game, they always do. But that is not an accurate measure for how things will shake out. If what wingnuts thought and the MSM narrative was all that mattered Mitt Romney would be president instead of Obama just beginning his second term.
Also, too local news about the sequester is much better than the national news and not favorable the the GOP. Even here in Texas.
FlipYrWhig
@Spaghetti Lee: I don’t trust those polls at all, though, because I’m confident that the thing most government-haters want to have cut is “the special black/brown welfare that lets you live a life of leisure sitting on your ass,” and since that option never comes up in the poll, respondents never have the chance to say what they really think. Basically they believe that there’s a huge, just utterly massive, slush fund “the government” uses to lavish favors on Those People, and if that stopped, everything would be fine. If you ask them about “poverty programs” or “health care,” they understand the recipients to be deserving. There’s no category for the undeserving.
FlipYrWhig
@Linnaeus: sorry to have missed your similar reply to Spaghetti. I agree with your analysis.
FlipYrWhig
@Jennifer: I don’t think there’s ever going to be a way out of the family/government analogy in thinking about budgets. There are too few other experiences of budgeting for people to understand. I would say something almost entirely opposite: “if you’re concerned about your credit card bills, and want to get them under control, do you throw your whole paycheck into paying down that debt, or do you make sure you can pay your housing and utilities and stuff first? You can reduce debt little by little. That’s what we do, and that’s what Obama wants to do, and has already done.” Etc.
Of course the real problem is that focusing on debt/deficit issues is not at all the same thing as jump-starting the economy, but those got confused a long, long time ago and may never be straightened out.
handsmile
@Redshirt: @Davis X. Machina:
Appreciate your responses. (My reply was delayed by a suddenly simmering FA Cup match between Chelski and ManU.)
Certainly prefer Redshirt’s assessment of the possibility of new gun safety regulations (and marijuana decriminalization for that matter) in Maine, but the state constitutional language on the issue would seem difficult to surmount.
While mrs. handsmile and i have been taking our vacations in Midcoast Maine for many years, I am familiar enough with Jackman and the Moosehead Lake region to have little doubt about how far north Appalachia extends. (Though last November’s successful passage of the same-sex marriage initiative appears to confirm Redshirt’s point about “different flavors of rednecks.”)
IowaOldLady
I don’t understand what these guys think is happening with the sequester. FBI agents are being furloughed one day in ten, including people doing counter-terrorism. Don’t they care? Are Republicans under the impression that this is all political theater and advantage gaining?
Ted & Hellen
Wow.
Obama is once again being blamed for a “fuck up” supposedly caused by the Republicans.
Unless this is the way he intended it to go down in the first place.
Hmmm…
RSA
@Mr Stagger Lee:
I guess every organization has to prioritize, but I’m thinking that a lot of kids are inspired by these shows to go into one of the services. I was by the Blue Angels, when I was a teenager visiting a cousin at Annapolis. (Nothing came of it.) Still…
James Gary
@IowaOldLady: Are Republicans under the impression that this is all political theater and advantage gaining?
Yes.
Chris
@IowaOldLady:
Don’t they care? Are you kidding? Republicans always get a boost out of terrorist attacks – if one of them’s in charge, it proves we should all forget the partisanship and rally around him because politics stops at the water’s edge, and if a Democrat’s in charge, it proves the man is guilty at best of being a weak sister and at most of criminal complicity and should be impeached. I suspect they’d love a terrorist attack, given how much of a boost the last one gave them.
IowaOldLady
@Chris: Sadly, you may be right. But do sequester-loving Republicans just intend these furloughs to continue indefinitely? How would that work?
Redshirt
@handsmile: I know – I can’t believe I’m the optimistic one! I’m never the optimistic one!
But I look at those town by town results from 2012 and I am greatly heartened.
I am VERY confident on Maine decriminalizing MJ, by the way. It’s only a matter of when, and what happens with the Feds.
There’s already a bill to do so with bipartisan sponsorship in the State House.
catclub
The version of that song that I know is:
“Sharks gotta swim, bats gotta fly….”
catclub
@FlipYrWhig: “and since that option never comes up in the poll, ”
Well, they all pile on against foreign aid.
Never mind that the lion’s share of that goes to Israel, which they do NOT want stopped.
Ted & Hellen
So the Beltway/media CW will be that the sequester didn’t really make much of an impact, so obviously government budget cuts are not harmful to the economy, and more are welcome!
Good job, Mr. Obama and Dems. Well done.
Mnemosyne
@donnah:
And this is why Republicans always benefit from this stuff: because people like your cousin and brother-in-law refuse to accept that the guys they voted for caused the problem and look around for someone else to blame.
Ted & Hellen
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, I know, the people are forever failing Himself.
Plus, Obama sucks at messaging. Even with a winning message, the Dems fail over and over.
But go ahead and blame the stupid among the population because hoo coodanode?
phil
@Steeplejack:
Population 140, according to the article.
Basically fewer folks than one block of my street. Who cares??
Cacti
Mistermix, you seem to have swallowed whole the conventional wisdom of this week.
The real pain from the sequester hasn’t even begun. March is when the pink slips go out. April is when the furloughs and layoffs begin in earnest.
fuckwit
Keep fuckimg that chicken.
Joel
It’s too bad we didn’t go over the cliff after all…
grandpa john
@Mnemosyne: maybe you should tell them that keeping their heads buried in the sand , exposes their asses allowing the assholes who are really responsible to continue sodomizing them