.
Video from Dave Weigel, who describes the “hours-long goat rodeo“:
… It never got violent, but it got heated. At one point, one of the frustrated Latino pastors from New York (churches from that state and New Jersey sent 700 people to the march) broke from the MFM pack and started beseeching the pro-equality protesters for respect. “Free speech!” he said. “Free speech! I have free speech!” I taped him as he bolted to the front of the line, proudly waving his sign and shouting “JESUS!” up until a drag queen who went by Queen Amor invaded his space.
There was a solid hour of this insanity, and a couple hours of lower-grade insanity.
Weigel posted a bunch of great pics later in the afternoon, and finished up with a report from the haters conservative side:
“The dominoes are falling,” said Dr. Bob Borger. “They’re falling faster than I ever thought they could.”
Borger, an Annapolis, Md. pastor, was walking back from the first-ever March for Marriage with two fellow Marylanders. They’d rallied outside the Supreme Court as justices heard arguments for the repeal of California’s Proposition 8. All of the Marylanders had worked on the 2012 campaign to ban gay marriage in their state, too. They were carrying huge signs from that campaign, with the slogan Tell the Governor, Tell the President: Protect Marriage.
But they’d lost. Maryland was one of three states that voted to legalize last year, and that fed into the liberals’ case that gay marriage was mainstream.
“The margin was around 100,000 votes,” said Borger. “It was close, and up until the day of the election I thought we would win.”
Tuesday’s march to the court was put together in six busy weeks by the National Organization for Marriage. More than 5,000 conservatives showed up—better than NOM had expected, not shabby for photos. Less than half of them were white. Spanish-speaking chaplains and families called for every child to have una mama y un papa. Chinese prayer groups gathered in circles to sing English hymns translated into Mandarin. Isolde Cambourne, a French student at D.C.’s Catholic University, waved a Tricolor and spread the news about the mega-rallies for marriage in her country.
And yet the mood varied between nervous, defensive, and panicked. Nobody, not even the red-sash-wearing youngsters of the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property, would predict an outright court win for their side. They had seen too many dominoes fall…
The arc of the moral universe is long…
Just Some Fuckhead
I’m sorry John is such a dick, for what it’s worth.
Baud
And this is why you never give up, no matter how difficult things seem. When the dominoes start falling, they fall quickly.
MomSense
The big yellow banner in the video is from Standing on the Side of Love–an interfaith coalition started by the Unitarian Universalist Association known affectionately as “the love people”. There are lots of faith communities whose beliefs are rooted in dignity and fairness!
Gin & Tonic
@Just Some Fuckhead: He may be, but AL shouldn’t be keeping 562 posts in the edit buffer.
? Martin
So, we’ve had this extended conversation in my household about the varied ways that discrimination manifests itself. Today’s Prop 8 case provided yet another illustration as several justices and one attorney talked at length around a point that Kagan was trying to make, not at all understanding that she was referring to menopause. If not for her recurring prodding back at that point, it never, ever would have been considered in the argument. I don’t think any of the men in the case were intending to be obtuse or discriminatory or anything else about the issue, it’s just not something that men think about and so it was completely overlooked even while someone was hinting (repeatedly!) about it.
Yet another illustration of why representation simply for the sake of representation is so important. Well intentioned straight white males cannot adequately represent non-straight-white-males. Just can’t do it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: Show me the rule that says she shouldn’t. EVERYTHING NOT FORBIDDEN IS COMPULSORY!
Corner Stone
Glad to see you got this post up, before the moral arc of the blogverse deleted it.
Mnemosyne
Am I misremembering, or did the members of the Junior Anti-Sex League wear red sashes?
Mnemosyne
@MomSense:
When we got married in 2006, it was at a Unitarian church that featured a giant rainbow banner at the entrance to the grounds that said “We Support the Freedom to Marry.” We were pretty sure that would make G’s (gay) brother more comfortable than a Catholic wedding.
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic: Because it hurts the edit buffer’s feelings?
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: Wouldn’t keeping the posts there make the edit buffer feel needed?
? Martin
@Mnemosyne: Blue sashes have always been worn by the Junior Anti-Sex League.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Gin & Tonic: You can die in a fire, clown. I’m not interested in your Leni Riefenstahlesque act in service of the blog Hitler.
Anne Laurie
@Gin & Tonic:
More like a couple dozen, plus some youtube music embeds backlogged for emergency Open Threads. (Those of you who hate my taste in music probably approve of that part.) Cole could’ve deleted any drafts more than say, three months old and brought the total for all front-pagers, including those no longer posting, down to the double digits.
But it was very rude of Cole to ignore Sarah. Professionals standards are to give 24 hours notice on global emails, for just that reason.
Gin & Tonic
“Professional standards”? Here? It is to laugh.
Gin & Tonic
@Just Some Fuckhead: Take a pill, dude.
Anne Laurie
@efgoldman: I’d say the man had
mommyolder women issues, but he’d probably find a way to ‘lose’ more of my posts.Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: I have a friend who, years ago, had something much like that up in her office. She was planning on devoting about an hour to destroying hetero society though. Times change; I guess as they move closer to success less is needed each day.
greennotGreen
Yesterday, I read Salon’s Wingnut’s explanation of why conservatives oppose same-sex marriage. The “reasoning” was based on religion and falsehoods, neither of which belongs in our constitutional form of government. I got somewhat depressed today thinking that the five assholes on the court might completely ignore the constitution and rationality and instead vote their bigotry, but then I remembered MLK’s quote. SCOTUS might set us back, but the People are changing, and the law will change, too. It’s just that people who want to get married shouldn’t have to wait.
TaMara (BHF)
I heard some sound bite today about how marriage is about procreation. And all I could think was, people are still arguing that? So if you’re a post-menopausal woman, infertile for any reason, then it should be illegal for you to get married? If your marriage does not produce children, should it then be annulled?
Sorry, just had to vent about the idiocy.
Ted & Hellen
I never have seen the Supreme Court marriage equality cases as being about getting the government to authorize or somehow validate my personal love life.
I don’t care about that. Fuck that and them.
I just want the same legal and civil rights to which I am entitled by the constitution of the United States, in every sphere of public life, as straight folks.
Harvey Milk for marriage equality.
Omnes Omnibus
@TaMara (BHF): Kagan gave that argument a vicious beat down.
Mary
@Omnes Omnibus: In this economy we all have less time to spend on our hobbies.
Origuy
@Anne Laurie:
That’s a shame, because I like your taste in music. However, it gives you an excuse to dig through YouTube for some more.
Milladoiro — Romance de Triacastela from Galicia
lamh35
wayyyyy OT, but Aww, the Black couple with the sextuplets have a show in TLC!!!! It’s on now! She was initially pregnantt with twins, but she lost them at 19weeks. So they prayed on it and got pregnant again & doctor told them there was 6 heartbeats. Dad’s first thought was “wow, did I pray too much?m
Aww!
I tell ya what, the difference between this family, even aside from the obvious, and the other “multiple” family reality shows is huge in terms of lifestyles
OMG! $800 for food, $350 for diapers & wipes, $200-300 for extra items!!!! Total monthly budget…$1450!!!!
dollared
You don’t get it. Gay marriage is easy. It doesn’t cost the Fortune 1000, or any of the top 500 families, any money. This is just a sideshow.
Whoopee. Now the top 1% of gays can go back to being principled, small government Republicans.
Now show me something that forces GE to pay 10% of its net income in taxes. Then I’ll be impressed that we made progress.
Omnes Omnibus
@dollared: There are many types of progress. Improving in civil rights is one of them.
geg6
@dollared:
That might be the most dickish comment I’ve ever seen here, unless I’m missing some snark there. In fact, it rates right up there with the worst of T&H.
This could only be said by a white straight male. Talk about assholes.
Linda Featheringill
The arc of the moral universe is long…
Yes.
I had a down moment this morning after scanning the world for news and realizing that the human species is chuck full of assholes. I said to myself that the world was just as bad off as it was when I was born and all of my agitation and trouble-making was useless.
Then I realized that some things are better. African Americans in general are better off than they were when I was born. God knows that Japanese-Americans have a better life than they did then. The Hispanic community is struggling but they weren’t doing even that much when I was a small child. And so on.
Not that I brought about all of these good things but I did take part in some of the movements. I engaged in the process.
dollared
@Omnes Omnibus: This happened because the Fortune 1000 and the 500 Families agreed that it could happen. It is their will, not ours. If liberals understood that, it would be progress.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@dollared: Civil rights are a sideshow? What an asshole.
PsiFighter37
@dollared: You can’t quantify civil rights in monetary terms that easily. And on that point, I think you’d find most large companies support gay marriage because having to figure out how to treat employees differently across state lines is a pain in the ass. It’s also inherently discriminatory, which goes against the diversity ethos that virtually every corporation out there stands behind nowadays.
I don’t want to play devil’s advocate too much, but I would argue that at a lot of these companies, you would see a workforce that is extremely reflective of America’s diversity, in all ways.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne: That is great!
dollared
@geg6: If that’s the worst you’ve ever heard here, you haven’t been here much.
So I’ll repeat it for you: The Republicans are lowering their resistance because Corporate America thinks gay civil rights are OK, just so long as no one – gay or straight – has any rights in the workplace.
It’s just basic power analysis. The march of impoverishment of the majority of Americans marches on, unabated. Because that’s the real battle. Today was just a nice day for us to focus on a minor victory. Remember, in a majority of states you can still be fired for being gay. Follow the money….
Just Some Fuckhead
@dollared:
What was the minor victory?
Ted & Hellen
@geg6:
Poor, delicate baby.
Not everyone is all about begging assholes to validate their personal relationships.
I do, however, want the government to recognize my constitutional right to enjoy the same civil and legal privileges as straight people.
So yes, sometime soon all gay folks will be able to get married legally while the one percent continues to rape us all, gay or straight. And then there will be some NEW shiny object.
dollared
@PsiFighter37: Agreed. That’s my point – this is happening because it’s good for Corporate America. In fact, in the Fortune 500 company I know best, I have many friends who are educated gays from places like Latin America or the Middle East, who are safer here in the US. And very inexpensive employees for the company, since those employees will work very hard to avoid going back.
Pinkamena Panic
Eat shit you nihilistic fuck.
Del
@dollared: So my fight for equality is “a sideshow” because it’s not the fight you value most? Yeah, fuck you buddy.
dollared
@Just Some Fuckhead: Oh, the slow realization on the part of the Right that they are losing the battle on Teh Gay.
Chris
@dollared:
I wonder if there was anyone writing the reverse/mirror image of this in letters to the editor in the 1930s.
“Oh YEAH, so we’ve got more economic rights! WOO HOO! Big fucking deal! The REAL challenge is the white power structure! We’re not making any progress on CIVIL rights! All the improvement on economic rights here is only happening because the white power structure willed it to happen! Liberal dupes need to understand that!”
Ah, who am I kidding. Of course there was.
Omnes Omnibus
@dollared:
This is a good thing, right? It is progress, right?
dollared
@Del: You really don’t get it. 91% of people want universal gun registration. It doesn’t get a Senate vote. 70% of people want the Buffet Rule. Obama trades it away for the “dreaded Sequester,” and now the Senate makes the Sequester permanent.
We don’t run the country. We don’t have any power to make our lives better. And today we are pretending that we are winning because we are making progress on gay marriage. No we’re not. We were allowed this bone. I’m glad we have this bone, too, but this was convenient for America’s large employers. Period. End of story.
Linnaeus
So, I want to ask folks here something.
Today on Facebook, I decided for today (and for tomorrow) to change my profile picture to the red equal sign that’s been going around there. I know it’s not a particularly deep statement, and I know that it takes years and years of hard work to achieve social progress, but I thought it wouldn’t do any harm as expression of an opinion, which as well know is something people do on Facebook all the time on a myriad of issues.
A friend of mine (not only a Facebook connection, but also a real life close friend for years) noted the change I made and emailed me with a comment saying that what I’d done was a useless gesture. Full stop.
I wasn’t expecting to change the world with that one little gesture, so I don’t really understand why he felt compelled to comment to me like that if he really thought that my picture change was so useless. And I’m wondering what folks here think about that. Thanks.
Omnes Omnibus
@dollared: Forty plus years of the country and its institutions swinging to the right is not going to get corrected overnight. Things like this show me that the pendulum is starting to swing back to the left. I prefer to celebrate the good things a bit and then move on to the next problem. YMMV.
dollared
@Chris: Probably, but only in the Negro press. In some limited sections of the North, where it wouldn’t get the editor killed.
Point taken. But that doesn’t really take into account the real change in power that occurred between 1932 and 1945. The white working class and their allies in the elites really did control the country. Have you ever seen the 1952 Republican Platform posters and their lauding of the sacredness of the right of workers to form unions, etc, etc.?
MikeJ
@Linnaeus: I don’t believe that every gesture you make has to change the entire world. Many people will try to make you feel bad if it doesn’t. Fuck ’em and keep fighting for what’s right, even if you can only make a tiny difference.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Linnaeus: Here’s another useless gesture your friend may understand.
dollared
@Omnes Omnibus: Understood. And I’m happy for my friends (in Washington, it’s a done deal).
But wow, we are still in a massive world of hurt. Just think of 30% child poverty and what that means for the year 2030. And no, we are not making progress on the matter of real political and economic power.
Andrey
@Linnaeus: I believe there’s been a few studies suggesting that people who make small gestures are actually less likely to subsequently make substantive gestures – e.g. buying a Livestrong bracelet, but then not making an actual significant contribution to cancer charities when the opportunity arises. The suggestion was that the token gestures make it easier to rationalize – even at a subconscious level – a choice to be more selfish later, because it’s easier for our brains to think “I made one selfless decision, now I’m making one selfish decision, it balances out” than to actually evaluate relative impacts.
If this research is correct, then it is potentially reasonable to discourage people from making minor, symbolic gestures.
MikeJ
@Just Some Fuckhead: Disappointed you didn’t use this one.
Omnes Omnibus
@Linnaeus: Symbolic gestures are what they are. You voiced your opinion on something to your friends and acquaintances. You weren’t trying to do more than that, were you? If that is the case, you succeeded in your objective.
Mnemosyne
@dollared:
You could say that exact same thing about the Civil Rights Movement, or the women’s rights movement, both of which happened concurrently with the rise of corporations and large employers. So I guess we’re also supposed to shrug our shoulders and say, “Big deal, so Martin Luther King Jr. ensured that big employers can exploit both black and white workers on an equal basis. Whoop-de-do!”
Del
@Linnaeus: Public expressions of solidarity are never useless. It’s not a big thing, but now everyone that noticed your change and who recognizes what it stands for knows your stance. That’s a small thing but important, because acceptance of gay marriage trends extremely closely with public awareness of how many of us there actually are.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@dollared: Watching goalposts move in real-time. The constant need for affirmation of purity above us plebes relegates what may have once been a rallying cry and priority cause (RICK WARREN!) into something hastily discarded and denigrated once the long game plays out.
greennotGreen
@Linnaeus: I think your gesture was lovely.
As someone who has just been through a serious illness, I can tell you that no single get-well card was as effective as the chemo drugs – but the cards helped! And that’s what your equal sign is: a good wish, a sign of support. It will brighten someone’s day, and that’s not a bad thing.
Mnemosyne
@dollared:
Yep, and the white working class used that power to oppress African-Americans, Latinos, Asian-Americans, and women. Weird how people don’t want to go back to the days when white men had good union jobs while black men were lucky to be allowed to sweep the floors in that same factory.
MikeJ
Is it just me, or does ESPN soccer announcer Bob Ley look like Richard Paul?
dollared
@Mnemosyne: except at those times we had a much more democratic political process and a much more responsive legislature. Remember the Civil Rights Act? The Equal Rights Amendment? Those granted economic rights, not just political rights.
Del
@dollared: You do know how many “economic rights” are inherent in marriage, right?
Chris
@dollared:
Of course there was a shift in power, albeit one which required FDR to compromise like hell with the Southern Democrats and other racists; occasionally he took hideously racist steps himself, as with the internment of American citizens on account of their ethnicity. Does that mean liberals had no power and were tools of the white power establishment? Or does it simply mean they were fighting the battle they thought they had the most chance of winning, and leaving the other one for the next generation?
Which is kind of my point, as obnoxiously stated as it might have been, about civil rights vs economic rights in our day and age. (This time the shoe’s on the other foot; the 20th century Democratic coalition had a consensus on economics but not on race, the 21st century one seems to be the other way around). Let’s not minimize the economic problems the country faces or the amount of backsliding there’s been since Reagan, something I and many others will often point out right here on this website, but let’s not minimize the achievements that we’ve started seeing on gay rights in the last couple years, considering that sodomy laws were still on the books in fourteen states as recently as ten years ago. There have been huge and beneficial changes for many Americans, and the fact that dickwad corporate suits are endorsing them now doesn’t change that, any more than Dixiecrat acquiescence to the New Deal did.
tofubo
point/counterpoint (and i apologize in advance if you think i think that the “point” has a frikken point)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsdLl4Vtf0M&feature=player_embedded
and also too, apologize for the 15 second ad and the linky to cnn
Omnes Omnibus
@dollared: Maybe it is a personality difference thing… I have never been motivated to do my best by fear or by having someone shout at me. Positive reinforcement always works better with me. So I celebrate little victories along the path. For someone like me, having a person say, “Yeah, whatever, look how much is still left to do,” isn’t helpful. I already know. We all do.
Chris
@Linnaeus:
I saw the exact same argument made by a friend of a friend today.
There’s a class of fashionable cynics (especially among students, especially in the “professional left” or “Ron Paul” type factions, which this guy was) that considers it their God given duty to shake their heads in world weary realism whenever anyone expresses support for any cause. That’s pretty much all there is to it.
SiubhanDuinne
@greennotGreen:
What a terrific analogy.
Mnemosyne
@dollared:
You mean the one that was primarily passed because of support from elitist Eastern Republicans and solidly opposed by working-class Southern Democrats? The one that the rich elites wanted and the salt-of-the-earth white working class opposed with their fists? That Civil Rights Act?
The Equal Rights Amendment died. I guess you missed that.
You know why we don’t have a responsive legislature anymore? Because liberals gave up on electoral politics and decided that everything could be done by outside pressure groups. They forgot that you need sympathetic people inside the legislature who can create and pass the bills that you want.
Meanwhile, conservatives were running their candidates for every office in town starting with dogcatcher and took over the infrastructure of government, because they knew that, once you do that, you don’t have to listen to any outside pressure groups anymore. You can pass whatever laws you want and the outside pressure groups can’t do squat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris: Do they ever wear t-shirts supporting the sporting team of their choice? ‘Cause that is a useless gesture as well – per their logic.
ETA: Or a band’s t-shirt?
Kay
I liked Kagan:
“What harm do you see happening-and when and how and what?”
She’s not gonna let him just blather on and ON about nothing.
MikeJ
@Chris:
I remember pretty much exactly when I outgrew that. I suddenly realised that every time anybody said anything I came up with an argument for why it was bad, or at least why it wouldn’t work. And at the same moment I realised I wasn’t actually very happy. And then I put two and two together and made a real effort at being positive, or at least reducing my negativity.
It was a huge effort, but it was nice being able to enjoy stuff.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: Did you ever do moot court? I was on out National Moot Court team and then after I graduated I got roped into being a judge at practice sessions for the teams as they prepared for competition. I always tried to throw surprises at the arguers and asking for specifics – “Now don’t give me any theoretical crap, counselor, what specifically is the harm? ” was a good one. The other really fun one was to be obsessed by one detail of the argument and to keep returning to it again and again. Ah, good times.
suzanne
@Mnemosyne: When we got married, Mr. Suzanne and I asked the UU pastor at the congregation we sometimes visit to do it. She declined because she won’t do any weddings until SSM is legal here in Crazyville. She then went and got herself arrested for leading SB1070 protests. She is awesome.
Ironically, my boss’s husband was her sentencing judge. He gave her the lightest sentence possible.
Omnes Omnibus
@MikeJ: That is along the lines of what I was saying up here. Sort of trying to tie things together.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Same here. Having people shout at me that things are just getting worse even faster than before just makes me want to curl up in a ball and read Harlequin romances all day (and I frickin’ hate Harlequin romances).
Feeling like there’s been some forward movement is much more motivating than being told that every victory is actually a failure because there’s a laundry list of other things that haven’t been done.
Linnaeus
Thanks, everyone, for your feedback. Since this friend of mine is someone I’ve known for years, I do take his views seriously (though we often disagree) and I honestly was wondering if I’d ventured into the realm of shallow “clicktivism”. But having been involved in political activism to some degree, I’m fully aware that it really does take work to get things done.
I responded to him in a somewhat snarky manner, because I was a bit ticked off. I don’t know if he’ll continue the conversation, but if he does, I’ll remember some of the things that you all have said.
Foregone Conclusion
@dollared:
What, the Equal Rights Amendment which was never ratified? The Civil Rights Act which required more than a decade of solid work by liberal activists, and which only passed with the votes of the Republican corporate establishment?
I get that there are bigger hills to climb still, and I worry that the young generation will just give up on progressive politics now that their gay best friend can marry his boyfriend. But it’s still a big win. If you’d suggested that we’d be looking at this kind of substantive progress on same-sex marriage ten years ago, I would have told you to seek out an asylum.
Mnemosyne
@suzanne:
This was actually our first (and only) time at that UU church — it was basically a site rental. But knowing that it was gay-friendly and welcoming definitely influenced our decision to have our wedding there.
catclub
After hearing a report on NPR on opinions on gay marriage in France and Russia (who are WAY behind the US on this issue), I wonder if any conservatives are planning on looking to their courts and laws for guidance on this. Funny if they did.
Russia is a lot closer to Saudi Arabia than to even France on this. Partly anti-US attitudes, partly who-knows-what deeply conservative Russian Orthodox. The interview
with the Radio Liberty reporter was pretty scary.
Chris
@MikeJ:
I mean, it’s fine, and actually seems really healthy, to look for pitfalls in all your ideas. As long as you’re doing it so you can navigate around the pitfalls, rather than simply letting it paralyze you.
Not saying I actually always live up to that, but it’s definitely the more worthwhile way to do things.
MikeJ
@Chris: Yeah, but if your reflex is to say, “that sucks” and then come up with reasons why you may be happier giving something a chance to work.
RaflW
The American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property has approximately 60 paid staff members. Good gracious, that’s a lot of payroll going to defend ummm, what, exactly?
Ahh, yes, “the service of Christian Civilization.” Huzzah for them. Can the just keep it to themselves, though? Why do they have to rub their idea of civilization in our faces?
Kay
@Omnes Omnibus:
No, I never did.
I sometimes have to read other lawyers transcripts for an appeal and it’s amazing how you can see them running into trouble from a distance before you flip the page and they ARE in trouble but you know at the time it was just flying.
I’m always mindful that someone else is reading one of mine, and probably thinking the same thing :)
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: That was what we were seeking to avoid. By having someone like me throw weirdness at the arguer, we hoped they would be ready for everything. Of course, in moot court and real life, appellate judges can be weirder than anyone can imagine.
David Koch
I feel bad that the Court doesn’t have the guts to nationalize gay marriage.
But on the other hand it keeps the issue alive which will only hasten the break-up of the goopers (ie former Yugoslavia).
gwangung
@dollared: Again, fuck you and your white, privileged ass. That patronizing attitude don’t play here.
But, cheer up. You got multiple Asian, black and white people mad at your dickishness. You had to work to do that.
David Koch
This is why I opposed legalizing marijuana in the state of Washington. Weed has led Dollard to hallucinate that the Equal Rights Amendment was ratified and added to the Constitution and some new conspiracy theory about Obummer dealing the Buffet Rule for sequestration (wtf??).
Mnemosyne
G pointed me to the Onion’s coverage:
Supreme Court On Gay Marriage: ‘Sure, Who Cares’
If only …
dollared
@gwangung: No, you have no clue. But you stay in your little mental ghetto. The point of my little party pooping exercise was to point out that in US politics economic power controls the future.
dollared
@Chris: @MikeJ: @Omnes Omnibus: I agree with you all. But for me the big change in gay marriage gives me an opportunity to hammer home the point: that US politics are all about the money, and the only time I will believe we are winning is when the oil company tax breaks are gone. We’ll get there. We will.
dollared
@David Koch: [the Equal Rights Amendment]was adopted by the House on October 12, 1971, with a vote of 354 yeas, 24 nays and 51 not voting.[11] [It] was then adopted by the Senate on March 22, 1972, with a vote of 84 yeas, 8 nays and 7 not voting….
The initial pace of state legislative ratifications was rapid, with 30 ratifications by the end of 1973.
So, 354-24 in the House, 84-8 in the Senate, ratified by 30 states in the first year. So its failure is a perfect example of how the pre-Reagan US was conservative, eh?
A Humble Lurker
@dollared: Just because this doesn’t affect you doesn’t mean it’s not important. I shouldn’t have to tell you that, man.
fuckwit
@Mnemosyne: Why yes, yes they did.
Randy P
Good grief, this is an unusually troll-heavy thread. Did somebody leave the screen door open or something?
Xenos
@TaMara (BHF):
What about a marriage that has had children, but is now past its child-bearing years and the kids have grown up? Why should they be ‘grandfathered’ into a privileged status that a consistently infertile couple can not have?
xian
@Mnemosyne: this is just fancy concern trolling. even our resident attention troll wants it both ways “I demand my rights! but still you are all dupes firebug etc.!”
xian
@dollared: “gives me an opportunity”
yay
xian
@MikeJ: from your lips to mirror-art fella’s ears
gelfling545
@Linnaeus: You let your friends know where you stand. This would seem to me to be one of the purposes of Facebook. If your action did not change the world, it may still have caused some folks to ponder which is always a good thing. Still, even if it had been totally useless, how does it harm anyone & why should your acquaintance be troubled thereby?