Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The revolution will be supervised.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Let there be snark.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

I was promised a recession.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Being the leader of the world means to be the leader of peace.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

Everybody saw this coming.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

John Fetterman: Too Manly for Pennsylvania.  Paid for by the Oz for Senator campaign.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

I did not have telepathic declassification on my 2022 bingo card.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Doctor Who – The Bells of Saint John

Reader Interactions

58Comments

  6. 6.

    Hunter Gathers

    My wife wished that clever shop girls would give her strange phone numbers, even if that clever shop girl turned out to be Rose Tyler.

  7. 7.

    Emdee

    @Ash Can: That’s because you saw him before. (Not wanting to be more specific because west coasters won’t have seen it yet)

  8. 8.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    So this Clara is pre-Asylum Clara. Then again, time doesn’t have to have any kind of order.

  10. 10.

    Johannes

    Liked it; for an anniversary season the potential Big Bad has a certain…resonance.

  13. 13.

    Just One More Canuck

    My 8 year old girl was really keen on watching it after seeing a preview earlier. I now have a date for Saturday evenings for the next while

  14. 14.

    Gravenstone

    Don’t care for the new Tardis set design. Even though this is the third episode featuring Coleman, I’m still not seeing the same level of chemistry with Smith as Gillan had. Of course, I’ll keep watching to see where they go with it.

    /curmudgeon

  15. 15.

    Kristine

    I really like Jenna-Louise Coleman.

    The episode itself was above average. Cool idea. Not in the top tier, though.

    Moffat tends to repeat the same types of tech tics.

  17. 17.

    Kristine

    @Gravenstone:

    Don’t care for the new Tardis set design.

    I really like it–its a clean design, with so many time/navigation symbols.

    I also liked Matt Smith One, the steampunk TARDIS. The Tennant design was the one I didn’t like. It reminded me of a moldy cave interior, maybe b/c of the greenish lighting.

  19. 19.

    Bruuuuce

    Two thoughts: First, “Summer Falls”, by Amelia Williams. Nice book :-)

    Second, I really, REALLY, want whatever app the Great Intelligence has installed on Boss Lady’s tablet. But only on mine, and not at the cost she apparently paid.

    Okay, one extraneous thought: It was cool hearing earlier that both David Tennant and Billie Piper will be returning for the 50th Anniversary (along with John Hurt).

  20. 20.

    Ken

    @Certified Mutant Enemy: That’s been my one peeve with the reboot – the companions have been having more mysterious back-stories and secret powers than the Doctor.

    (rot13 for the west coast) Jnf vg whfg zr, be jrer gurer jrer n pbhcyr cynprf jurer gur Qbpgbe jnf npgvat yvxr n fgnyxre? Rfcrpvnyyl jura fur jnf nfyrrc naq ur jnf tbvat guebhtu ure guvatf.

  21. 21.

    ruemara

    I spent most of the day being reminded of how much I despised Amelia Pond and pitied Rory. Liked the shout out to Rose (another one I do not understand the brouhaha over, the “clever, witty, high-speed” dialogue is ok, but I do think the multiple phases of Oswin should have key differences. Kinda tired of Moffat’s Larry Stu complex that’s undermining the Doctor. On the while, I’ll watch because I want to see what develops. And I do not care if you adore Rose/Amelia/Clara, I’m just that fussy about characters.

  22. 22.

    Mark B.

    I noticed the intro music was a lot punchier and closer to the original score, and the title animation is also more retro and I liked unironically.

  23. 23.

    Mark B.

    I noticed the intro music was a lot punchier and closer to the original score, and the title animation is also more retro and I liked unironically.

  24. 24.

    Hal

    @Gravenstone:

    Don’t care for the new Tardis set design.

    I think I read somewhere that the new Tardis design was supposed to reflect the Doctor’s isolation and loss of his companions. More mechanical and less homey.

    I’m really looking forward to the next few episodes, but no Amy and Rory, and less River is making me a bit sad. Also, Matt Smith is apparently leaving after this season, and I don’t think Moffatt is sticking around either. If by some chance the BBC doesn’t put another Doctor into production, I’m kind of hoping they find a way to send Amy, Rory, the Doctor and River off together into the sunset.

  25. 25.

    Mark B.

    @Mark B.: @ruemara: I’ll disagree with you about Rory. At first, he got short shrift, but as time went on, his character became more significant and eventually became almost equal with Amy. I was pissed at the writers when they appeared to write him early on, but he came back with a vengeance.

  28. 28.

    Mark B.

    @Hal: the Doctor is like the British auto industry. They go through long periods of producing substandard crap, but then they come up with something quirky and beautiful that takes your breath away. And leaks oil.

    P.S. loved the fact that a classic British bike was a major part of this episode.

  30. 30.

    jnfr

    I think the new companion is excellent. I have all kinds of theories about what’s happening in her timeline(s), but will postpone speculation.

  31. 31.

    Mark B.

    @jnfr: I’m having a hard time holding back. A lot of information in tonight’s episode leads to some interesting theories but nothing was explicit. I won’t get into details, but I’ll be glad when its time.

  32. 32.

    Seanindc

    As someone who has never seen the show, how long into season one does one need to go for it to begin to be good? My wife started watching the other day at work and is three episodes in and thinks its terrible. Is this one of those shows you need to slog through half the first season before they find their groove?

  33. 33.

    Auguste

    Is this one of those shows you need to slog through half the first season before they find their groove?

    @Seanindc: Short answer: Yes, exactly. Long answer: Yes, plus the 2nd season changes it up completely, and IMO for the much better.

  34. 34.

    Tiny Tim

    If you’re willing, watch the whole first season. If it doesn’t work for you then just quit. But the first season gives a good sense of the weird range of stories it tells. It’s a bit silly in the beginning, gets a bit more serious – and good – in the middle.

    Don’t like series one, then move on.

  37. 37.

    KG

    @Hunter Gathers: I figured it was River, I thought Rose was locked in the other dimension. Then again, if Tenant is coming back, maybe it’ll be as the real Tenth Doctor rather then meta-crisis Doctor

  39. 39.

    MaximusNYC

    @Ken: Yes, it was a little creepy.

    I agree with those who like the new TARDIS interior. It’s more clean, geometric and techy — reminiscent of the old series, and yes, it seems to reflect the Doctor’s isolation.

  40. 40.

    brendancalling

    Wasn’t too keen on the new TARDIS, LOVED the new theme music, did not catch the bit about the shop-girl.

    Not the best episode I’ve seen, but not bad either.

  41. 41.

    Woodrowfan

    I liked the organic look better although the Steampunk look grew on me.

    You’ve changed the desktop theme, haven’t you? What’s this one? Coral?

  42. 42.

    Kristine

    @Yutsano: I’m still stuck on the Baker era and what happened to Romana. I know that there were tie-in books and radio programs that featured the later her, but I want to *see* her.

    I’d love her to come back, actually. She was my favorite companion, especially as played by Mary Tamm.

  43. 43.

    Kristine

    @MaximusNYC:

    @Ken: Yes, it was a little creepy.

    I attributed his actions to making sure she was safe and tucked-in after fearing that he had lost her yet again. He isn’t human, and he often misses the mark, behavior-wise.

  45. 45.

    ice weasel

    I don’t post here a lot but I do read here frequently. I suppose I just wanted to see another opinion on the issue posted.

    -I don’t like the new retro theme. It does nothing except annoy me that Murray Gold’s brilliant season five theme and score is being changed because, well, 50th anniversary and freedom I suppose.

    -Loved the Pond’s, Love Matt Smith (and Tennant and Eccleston), love RTD and the Moffat. You folks who pine for the old days I do not understand but cheers to you for sticking with it so long.

    -Of the three Coleman episodes, this one was the clunkiest. I totally missed the whole chemistry thing hinted at from the first two Coleman episodes. It like the Doctor was really trying way too hard to convince her.

    -If you watch Doctor Who, of any era, you really have to possess an outstanding ability to suspend disbelief. Saying Moffat episodes are so much worse, from that perspective, than any other period is a bit like arguing that elf ears need to be or they couldn’t possibly work. It’s Doctor Who. Moffat’s style may be different and not to your liking but he’s no less, and I think, much more, than many of the previous writers. At judging from the shows (Douglas Adams excepted, always).

    -I’m reserving opinion on the new TARDIS design. It’s not horrible but I’m not sold on it. I guess that’s what comes from mostly liking the reboot series as opposed to the olden days.

    And finally, the 50th anniversary episode in 3D? Why oh why?

  46. 46.

    El Cid

    Jenna Louise Coleman is great, and funny, and sharp, and she’s also a living scuplture of beauty. This is just going to be a start for her.

  47. 47.

    Thomas Beck

    My problem with last night’s episode is my problem with many of the episodes since the show came back in 2005: trying to cram too much story into not enough time. Last night, they sort of had to wrap things up in about a minute and a half – too much set up, not enough payoff. It’s hard to have a real beginning, middle, and end in 45 minutes or so. That said, I enjoyed the story (although I admit to being quite puzzled by the title). Looking forward to seeing who Clara turns out to be!

  48. 48.

    Yutsano

    @Thomas Beck: The Caves of Androzani, an old Peter Davidson epidsode (his last in fact) suffers from the same fate and it’s a four part serial. Sometimes the stories they want to tell are just so expansive and require so much detail that something has to make it to the cutting room floor. I’m not certain if that it’s true for The Bells of St John but I agree the story could have been tighter.

    @ice weasel:

    Of the three Coleman episodes, this one was the clunkiest. I totally missed the whole chemistry thing hinted at from the first two Coleman episodes.

    I think there were too many contrivances in the story, although usually what appears to be a contrivance can be a huge detail later. But I agree that this was not nearly as smooth and I didn’t see the flashes of Sarah Jane that I did with Oswin and the first Clara. I’m going to blame the writers for this though over Jenna.

  51. 51.

    fergie

    Just re-watched the episode. I agree its the greatest show on television! I thought Assylum of the Daleks was one of the best episodes ever. So I was excited to see Clara again (after the snowmen)to get some idea of direction up to the 50th in November. On the Fields of Trenzalore….

  52. 52.

    El Cid

    I do try to bear in mind that they balance between episodes oriented much more strongly to young kids and those targeted at older audiences, and also that it’s not always easy to tie in these special episodes to holidays.

    (Easter — rebirth?)

  53. 53.

    El Cid

    For a weird, dark, surreal series (just the 6 episodes though) keep your eyes out for UK’s “Utopia,” just aired.

    Also, “Orphan Black,” about to air here I believe too.

    [Okay, never mind, it seemed pretty conclusive but I guess they’re now doing a 2nd season.]

  54. 54.

    DeeFromTexas

    Dear Lord, is every British screen writer functionally computer-illiterate? I’m a long-time fan and I will soldier on regardless but seeing Clara SO UTTERLY CLUELESS about the internet makes her look very incurious. I am not a geek, but there are thousands of people like me–we may confuse our modems with our routers but we still know something.

    For the story arc, it’s ‘wait and see’ because the Doctor is reacting very oddly to the Clara mystery.

  55. 55.

    hartly

    I’m afraid this message may seem sarcastic, but let me assure you I really am curious about this and would like some intelligent feedback.

    I’m coming to this thread a little late, so it’s possible no one will even see this comment, but as a long time fan who grew up on this show when it was run on PBS in the 80’s and 90’s, can I get some insight into what makes the Davies/Moffatt reboot so popular? I didn’t see the latest episode – I gave up on the series shortly after Donna Noble joined as a companion, came back when Matt Smith became the Doctor, and gave up again after the first episode of the Silurian two-parter – but if it’s anything like the vast majority of stories were like when I stopped watching, I would have found myself annoyed by the emotion/science-fiction ratio (way too much emotion, no where near enough science-fiction), and the ordinariness of the plot and characters.

    Modern Dr. Who seems like pretty much every other show on TV now, just with a TARDIS and some Daleks in it. There doesn’t seem to be much more you can get out of it than you could by watching 4 Weddings and a Funeral or reruns of The Loveboat, so why did Russell Davies bring it back – other than that he’s a fan of the old series – when he could just have developed an entirely new shmaltzy romance that didn’t have any sci-fi elements, and would presumably be just as popular?

    In other words, why bring back Dr. Who with its sci-fi trappings, since it’s clearly the emotion rather than the sci-fi that sells it, and why do so many people – including fans of the old series – prefer it to tons of other maudlin, non sci-fi TV shows that are just as good?

    In reviewing this message I can see that it is a little sarcastic, but I really am looking for intelligent answers. Be as snarky in your replies as you please, but please also give me some genuine insight if you have any to impart.

  56. 56.

    SpotWeld

    In other words, why bring back Dr. Who with its sci-fi trappings, since it’s clearly the emotion rather than the sci-fi that sells it, and why do so many people – including fans of the old series – prefer it to tons of other maudlin, non sci-fi TV shows that are just as good?

    Because, in the same sense that there will always be a Starship Enterprise completing its five year mission to seek out new life and new civilizations…

    There will always be a mad man and his blue box forever showing that intellect and romance will be victorious over brute force and cynicism.

  57. 57.

    hartly

    @SpotWeld: But…the old show wasn’t really about “a mad man and his blue box forever showing that intellect and romance will be victorious over brute force and cynicism.” I think any unbiased observer would agree that the very first Dr was as cynical as they come and not above using brute force – in the very first story he has to be restrained from killing a helpless man by bludgeoning him with a rock. As the series progressed the Doctor became much nicer, but he still often resorted to physical violence and killing to beat his opponents, and rarely showed much remorse – 2 examples amongst many: the 4th Dr blowing up the Zygons in “Terror of the Zygons” and gassing Solon in “The Brain of Morbius.”

    In short, the show wasn’t primarily comfort food or romance, and was more interesting for it. I’d like to see the show go back to its more high-concept and yes, dare I say it, violent roots. I’d like to see it go back to the concept of a curious scientist exploring the universe, rather than a manic pixie dream guy helping people with their family squabbles and love lives. I’ve been watching Farscape recently, and while it has its flaws – too much kissing, for example – it’s much more reminiscent of old school Who than modern Dr. Who is, and I’d like to see modern Dr. Who go more in that direction.

  58. 58.

    Bruuuuce

    @hartly: The Doctor is not above violence in the new show; he blows things up and causes mechanical failures on spaceships, etc. However, he does it far less than on the old series, preferring clever and less violent solutions. The exegetical explanation is that he is the sole survivor of the last great Time War, in which he had to sacrifice Gallifrey and the Time Lords to defeat the Daleks (whom, as we all know by now, survived, which also has a profound effect on him). The tactics he was forced into are strongly implied and the PTSD is plain in the reboot, in the Ninth Doctor’s season and the beginning of the Tenth (a large part of the overarching story in that time is the healing the Doctor experiences).

    The outside-the-lines explanation is apparently that this is the vision of the two modern showrunners (Davies and now Moffat) hold of the Doctor, and clearly their version resonates well with modern audiences.

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