There’s now a petition circulating to censure the crazy libertarian econ prof at my university who wondered why it was wrong to rape unconscious people. I won’t sign it myself, partly because I’m not a speech police, and partly because people who know him say that he would love to get censured so he can wank about how his freedom is being taken away. His whole career just a not-that-elaborate trolling operation. In fact nearly all libertarians’ careers are not-that-elaborate trolling operations. Megan McArdle may be the ultimate example, but it’s true of most of the staff of Reason magazine as well. Take something contrarian and/or offensive, say it as loudly as possible, and….profit.
It’s their prerogative, to be sure, but it’s not any way to build a political movement. Most people who hear of a political philosophy whose adherents think gang rape is ok simply conclude that they want no part of that political philosophy.
Conservatism (I’m being generous and pretending that libertarians aren’t conservatives) is starting to face that problem too. Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Ben Carson, Bill Nojay they’re all nothing more trolls. They may get teh base riled up but you reach a point when there’s a people pointing at you than pointing with you.
kc
How ’bout they feed him roofies til he passes out, then censure him.
NonyNony
Well actually, yeah. And they’re trolls with financial incentives to troll harder. They have no real need for the Republican party, and given the choice between making money by destroying the party or losing money to help the party, it’s pretty goddamn obvious which choice each of these guys would make.
Just Some Fuckhead
Sounds like this guy is someone you wanna get some roofies in and party with.
the Conster
“Formerly a Slate columnist…” Gawker could have just stopped there.
Just Some Fuckhead
Can you introduce us, DougJ?
Calming Influence
I’m with you on the not signing bit. Libertarian trolls are just the godless version of Westboro Baptist Church.
David Koch
Except in Steubenville.
kc
Why should we not reap the benefits of censuring him? So he wakes up covered in censure, has he really been harmed?
Chris
Oblige him, would be my thought.
And if any other conservatives or “libertarians” out there want to pick up his mantle and fight for his constitutional right to never be told he’s wrong, by all means let them, and let the party become further associated with the “it’s not rape if she’s drunk” position. Better for us.
Scott S.
The alternative to censuring him and giving him the attention he craves is *not* censuring him and making it look like the university approves.
kindness
That is a very honorable position for you to take Doug. But let’s not toss the baby out with the bath water now. There are other fine things you can do for the cause.
Do you know where he parks his car? Are there security cameras in the lot? Do you have an ice pick?
or
Can you log onto his computer at work? You could create some very interesting Craigslist proposals. maybe even join a couple of websites that would improve his image (cough, NAMBLA, cough).
You are certainly bright enough to
ignore these suggestionsdo the right thing.DougJ, Friend of Hamas
@Scott S.:
I agree it’s good for the university to censure him because it distances them from his remarks.
JPL
If sex is not consensual, it’s rape. The person needs to be fired, if he doesn’t understand that.
jl
I think I read that Landsburg has a U Chicago PhD in mathematics. I don’t see much sign of logical thought in his economic analysis, but that is just my humble econometrician judgment, and perhaps I do not appreciate the higher realms of my ‘science’. But, if I am correct, it is odd. I think logic is part of math, so not sure what went wrong.
Amir Khalid
O friend of Hamas,
An update to the Gawker post has a communication from your university’s spokesman saying the libertarian economics professor was acting within his right of free speech. So censure looks unlikely.
Still, what are the consequences to the professor if the university does censure him?
Bubblegum Tate
OT: The Conspiracy Theory Poll results are in! Among the highlights:
28% of voters believe secretive power elite with a globalist agenda is conspiring to eventually rule the world through an authoritarian world government, or New World Order. A plurality of Romney voters (38%) believe in the New World Order compared to 35% who don’t.
28% of voters believe Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks. 36% of Romney voters believe Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11, 41% do not.
5% believe exhaust seen in the sky behind airplanes is actually chemicals sprayed by the government for sinister reasons. (CHEMTRAILS!)
9% of voters think the government adds fluoride to our water supply for sinister reasons (not just dental health).
EconWatcher
@Bubblegum Tate:
Those are impressive numbers. But I bet you could get some pretty decent numbers for whackaloon theories from polling our side, too.
The difference is that the leaders and elites on our side do not endorse or encourage the whackaloon theories, or use them as the basis for policy.
DougJ, Friend of Hamas
@Amir Khalid:
No consequences.
TooManyJens
@Bubblegum Tate: OMG, the crosstabs. My favorite so far is that 5% of Obama voters believe Obama is the Antichrist.
Though I suspect a poll like this attracts a higher than usual amount of trolling.
Ted & Hellen
@JPL:
I agree. But why do you feel it’s too much to ask that you be able to explain, in actual words, why and how that statement is so? If you can’t, then you suck. Which is all the guy was saying in the first place.
I love reading Obots, who are constantly accusing actual left-leaning liberals of being “emo,” denounce other people for “offending” them and hurting their fee fees.
Consider the possibility that he does understand that, but he wants to know what words, phrases, and thought processes OTHER humans use to understand that so that he can, you know, learn and grow. You know, this whole crazy philosophical discourse thing people talk about.
Oh that’s right, you are more interested in your pleasurable outrage.
scav
Not being a high muckity muck at a university, I’d go for a strong statement reiterating the official University and Legal definitions of rape, and suggesting that while there may be alternative interpretations, one might politely suggest they be followed at personal risk, thank you very much. But I’m not a muckity muck.
The Other Chuck
@Bubblegum Tate:
You can’t look at the Koch Brothers and not see a big nugget of truth in it. Mind you the kooks who screech the shrillest about the NWO are almost without exception the very useful idiots empowering that elite in the first place…
Mnemosyne
Hey, he can whine all day long about his “freedom” to advocate rape being taken away as long as he doesn’t try to run away from his own words. Which he totally will, assuming he hasn’t done it already. He’s going to try to change the subject from “dude, that was a totally fucked-up thing to say” to “FREEEEDDDDOOOMMMM!”
Personally, I think more free speech is the answer here. I think choice quotes from that essay should be posted on large posterboards at the front of his classroom for every lecture he does, and the full text of the essay should be posted on his office door. Everyone who has to work with him or take a class with him should know exactly what he advocates so they know never to accept any kind of food or drink from him, just in case.
MattF
@the Conster: The Slate Professor of Contrarian Economics. Sigh. It’s trolling, but there’s something else there too, some grievance. Not that I care what that grievance is, but it’s clearly there.
blondie
Wonder if that guy would think there’s any harm if someone just looked at all of his mail, email, and stuff on his computer, without actually harming any of it, but still thoroughly looking it all over? After all, no “harm,” no foul, righto professor?
Also assuming that prof would have been pro-Buck in the Kill Bill movies.
yeeeuck.
Bubblegum Tate
@EconWatcher:
Oh, no doubt. Chemtrails is pretty much all our side, as is the notion that the CIA deliberately introduced crack to black neighborhoods.
What’s interesting, though, is the breakdown by presidential vote. The only ones in which the percentage of Obama voters saying they believe a certain conspiracy theory is larger than the percentage of Romney voters saying they believe in said conspiracy theory are:
The moon landing was faked (6% to 5%)
CIA spread crack to inner cities (17% to 10%)
Government allowed 9/11 to happen (13% to 8%)
And, of course, on whether Bush misled the nation on WMDs in Iraq (69% to 18%)
All the other ones are either tied or with Romney voters’ percentage higher. The crosstabs for political ideology (very liberal, somewhat liberal, moderate, somewhat conservative, very conservative) show pretty much the same pattern.
ThresherK
In the proverbial “give him enough
free speechrope” department, what will letting this person continue talking do to his career?Is he ensconced to the point that he’s harder to fire than ACORN is to defund (sic)?
Chris
@Bubblegum Tate:
You missed the best one;
If there’s a more blatant example of GOP detachment from reality, I don’t know what it is.
David Koch
@Amir Khalid:
why do I get the feeling if he said something blasphemous about Jesus they wouldn’t be defending his free speech.
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
Really? Saying “my body is my own and you don’t get to violate it without my express permission” is not enough for you?
I really hope there was someone else staying in the house when your daughter was there. I hate to think what would have happened if you decided that she wouldn’t remember you sticking your fingers in her vagina while she was asleep, so what would be the harm? After all, that’s your argument — if the person doesn’t remember, it’s not actually harmful to them, so being sexually fondled by her father wouldn’t harm your daughter as long as you made sure she was unconscious first, right?
EconWatcher
@Bubblegum Tate:
I’m actually kind of impressed that 18% of Romney voters acknowledge that Bush misled the country on WMDs in Iraq. More than I would have thought.
Wonder how many of them realize that Romney’s foreign policy team was made up of either people who agree with Bush and have no regrets, or people who regret that Bush did not go far enough.
Chris
@Bubblegum Tate:
I don’t think that’s much of a conspiracy theory. As I recall from “Dark Alliance,” drug dealers whose trade helped fund the contras at a time when the U.S. government couldn’t do it openly, used their connections to the Oliver North crowd to operate freely in the U.S, and that played a huge role in enabling the drug trade and the spread of crack in the inner cities.
Like the WMDs, it’s not a conspiracy theory so much as a fairly well documented fact that polite society has simply decided to tune out and ignore because to do otherwise would be shrill and uncivil.
Darkrose
This. Absolutely. 100%. It would just be feeding the troll.
raven
@Mnemosyne: You know I’ve pied this clown for 6 weeks and it has made my experience here all the better. If you talk to it how about NOT posting it’s statements? Please.
raven
@raven: Your ideas intrigue me. Would you care to discuss them with me over pie?
David Koch
@DougJ, Friend of Hamas:
That would be a great name for a punk rock band
Unsympathetic
@Ted & Hellen:
Objective reality is not on your side,
Republicanlibertarian troll.You think you get to say whatever you want? OK. That goes both ways. News flash, spoiled child: Nobody owes you anything. If you want SOMEONE ELSE to be considerate enough to give reasons for anything, then you have to be considerate of what they think.
This guy wants to ignore the humanity of the person being violated under the guise of freedom? The problem is that he’s intruding on her freedom not to be exploited. And simply because he refuses to recognize it doesn’t take away her rights.
The moral of the story, as always: Fascist Republicans don’t have the self-awareness to realize they’re whining because others won’t placate their bizarrely overactive sense of entitlement.
Jamie
I’d be interested in why, exactly, the good prof seems to hang on unconsciousness being the important part. If we want to play Stupid Thought Exercizes for $200, this would imply that any time he is asleep, the lizard people could coopt his labor for whatever purpose they like, without compensation.
That is, unless he wants to make an argument that filing things in a mail room without compensation is somehow more invasive of one’s liberty than being used sexually against one’s will, that mental trauma cannot be compensated for, that reputational issues simply don’t matter, and that aggressive sexual predators are just peachy-keen, so long as they only get rapey with people who can’t consent or resist. I’m waiting for the argument that slavery is economically rational, given just a few non-operational assumptions that would exist if he were a master of the universe.
As someone with some sympathy for many libertarian-ish notions (briefly, they don’t work in the real world, but erring on the side of letting people make their own mistakes is a good starting point for policy, and I’m talking about them as-stated, not the outcomes that many libertarians want), jackasses like this just make me call myself a Democrat.
Other than Doug and that guy with a camera a few years ago, are there any good leftish trolls around? I’m just not wired that way, and anyway too busy. Maybe that’s a systemic problem.
Ted & Hellen
@Unsympathetic:
Fuck you, you stupid piece of shit. I have never written anything to a commenter as vile as Mem’s comment. Plus, it’s clear she’s stalking me online, and my daughter.
You’re good with that, of course. Did I mention fuck you?
drbloor
@jl:
The keyword there isn’t “mathematics,” it’s “Chicago.”
EconWatcher
@Chris:
There was some dirty business involving the contras and drug running, but I don’t believe there is any evidence that this “played a huge role in enabling the drug trade and the spread of crack in the inner cities.” Link?
Mnemosyne
@Jamie:
Because the assumption is that being violated while you’re unconscious isn’t traumatic because you won’t remember being violated, so therefore it should be no harm, no foul.
Of course, all of the aftereffects that you mentioned, such as harm to reputation, still exist, especially if the assaulter documented the assault in any way (video, pictures, etc.) but there’s still this strain of guys out there who are convinced that it’s totally not traumatic to have a gap in your memory and not know what happened the night before until someone flashes the pictures of it at you.
e.a.f.
he obviously wants his 15 seconds of fame. Simply deny it and he will go back to his corner, just like any 2 yr. old. If it happened to him or one of those close to him, he wouldn’t be so glibe about it.
If nothing else the man has very bad manners. Ignoring him would be best
MikeJ
If the pressure gets strong enough he will move on to 1) it was just a joke, why are you so humorless and then eventually, 2) it was actually a parody of what liberals really believe and they’re the bad guys.
RSA
If I said, “I’m going to write a blog post about ‘psychic harm’ that draws an analogy between (1) someone who doesn’t like others watching porn, (2) someone who doesn’t like the wilderness being destroyed, and (3) an unconscious girl who is raped,” I think some/all of my friends would say, “Don’t be a dick.” Landsburg moves in very different circles from me, I guess.
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
No? I seem to remember you posting your fantasy about my mother performing oral sex on Jodie Foster in great detail. I can link to that for you later, if you like, since you’re claiming you don’t remember it.
Dude, I’ve never even followed the link to look at your shitty paintings other than the one JC posted on this site. I have no clue who you are, except by what you’ve posted here.
If you don’t like people posting shitty sexual speculations about you and your daughter, try not posting them about other people’s mothers first, you fucking crybaby hypocrite. You say anything you want to other people, but if anyone gives you a taste of your own medicine and repeats the same things back to you that you say to other people, you have a fucking meltdown and start weeping about how mmmmeeeaaannn everyone is to you.
Nut up, you fucking baby. If you can’t take it, stop dishing it out.
Jamie
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, I actually know this. It would just be fun watching him try to explain away all of the actual harms that people with a shred of decency understand, in detail. Unlike our current troll, he has to be more eloquent than just shouting “fuck you” to maintain his position, and making them dance is good sport.
scav
@RSA: Wonder how that circle also warps in the absolute need to protect tough army doodz from being oogled in the showers? You’ld think it would be all, “No Audible Wolf-Whistle, No Foul.”
raven
@Mnemosyne: wtf-k?
Chris
@Ted & Hellen:
Just to quote back your own statement from three posts ago –
The post is about a Rochester professor arguing very clearly that rape didn’t matter if the girl was passed out. The only contribution you could make was to concern troll about how us Obots weren’t being clear and detailed enough in the highly complex explanation of how nonconsensual sexual activity constitutes rape.
Little late to be scrambling for the moral high ground, fuckwad.
@EconWatcher:
I read it from a book, not online – http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Alliance-Contras-Cocaine-Explosion/dp/1888363932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364939558&sr=8-1&keywords=dark+alliance, written by a former reporter, basically expanding on a series of articles he wrote in the late eighties or early nineties investigating the ties between the CIA, contras, and American drug dealers. I don’t own the book, but will try to get the specific quotes next time I’m at the library.
joes527
@Bubblegum Tate:
Oh yeah. They could have used chocolate instead, but nooooooooooo. They has to go with putting fluoride in the water.
I’m thinking it is is sinister plot. Now excuse me, I need to go brush with the last of my chocolate Easter bunny.
kc
@Ted & Hellen:
I don’t know what’s worse, your trollery or your whining.
MattMinus
@JPL:
No he doesn’t as long as he isn’t, you know, raping anyone. Getting people fired for what they think strikes me more as team red’s bag.
Unsympathetic
@Ted & Hellen:
I’m not Mem.
What the hell are you talking about? You’re defending rape by.. asserting others are defending it?
Keep avoiding and deflecting and making personal attacks: It’s all you’ve got, and you know it.
Joel
@Ted & Hellen: intent, like consent, matters. That is all, Lanny.
Rex Everything
I actually think Landsburg is more than a troll. He’s a propagandist, and a not-unskilled one. His stuff is pitched perfectly to entitled undergrads: he peddles a particular kind of contrarianism that demands ignorance and a lack of genuine curiosity, coupled with a strong desire to appear knowing. Rand, Freakanomics, McMegan et al traffic in similar goods (but Landsburg is probably the best writer of the bunch). It’s scary to contemplate how many students must internalize his ideas and then go through life as voting citizens without ever really examining them again.
With this rape stuff I get the feeling he’s just fucking around, just practicing. His really pernicious work is in the fields of anti-environmentalism and anti-market regulation.
Chris
@e.a.f.:
Eh. I still say fire the prick. It’s not unreasonable for things like this, whether they’re done out of heartfelt belief or simply trolling for attention, to provoke your employers firing you.
I doubt you’d be creating a martyr, but if you are, if there are conservatives and libertarians out there who would flock to his cause – then like I said, good. Let them wear the pro-rape flag loud and proud.
quannlace
Cole’s hard boiled egg dilemma is a bit far down the blog ladder, so I’m posting my own culinary bete-noire here. Dried beans.. Why the hell can’t I properly cook dried beans? I’ve had some black beans soaking (in several changes of water) for two days. I’ve now had them cooking at a brisk simmer for 3 hours and the #@&* fuckers still aren’t soft. Any tips, I’d appreciate them.
Trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
Probably thinks “Silence of the Lambs” is a date movie.
“It puts on the lotion or it gets delicious pie.”
Ted & Hellen
@Mnemosyne:
There was a very specific reason for my Jodie Foster fantasy, and you know it. It began with another of your vile personal attacks.
Fuck off, you psycho. How do you know my daughter was at my house?
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
If the school won’t fire him, then let him talk. His stupidity needs to be out there.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Mnemosyne:
Good to know. I was feeling a bit guilty about the time that I sneaked into the good prof’s house while he was asleep and stuck his toothbrush up my ass.
Trollhattan
@quannlace:
You soaking them first?. Going from faulty memory, it’s soak, drain, then cook in water or broth for a hella long time. Will gladly defer to an actual cook.
Baud
It’s a good way to get on the wingnut grifter circuit, however.
Mnemosyne
@raven:
Oh, just your classic Timmy moment where my mocking his supposed infallible gaydar turned into his insisting that if my mom figured out that Jodie Foster was gay before Foster announced it, it must be because my mother wants to have sex with Foster, which he proceeded to go into great detail about.
You know, the usual hysterical attacks that he launches when anyone dares challenge his wisdom from on high.
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
Because you posted it in one of the Steubenville threads when you claimed that you have a totally awesome relationship with your daughters and they would tell you anything. Don’t you even remember the shit you post?
ETA: And that “vile personal attack” was me asking that you prove your claim. Somehow I’m not surprised that you interpreted that as a “vile personal attack” since you can never back up your claims and immediately go on the defensive if anyone dares ask for evidence.
Ted & Hellen
@Mnemosyne:
I know you don’t remember most of what YOU post, because most of the shit you attribute to other commenters you fucking make up out of whole cloth.
Fuck off, you loathsome toad.
Kay
@Rex Everything:
Maybe not though, because there are reams of cases where physicians and dentists abuse or violate sedated patients and generally their other patients (who may not recall or know if they were raped) are horrified and incredibly angry.
So, like most things libertarian, his theory doesn’t hold up, real-world.
ranchandsyrup
@Trollhattan: I tease my sacto wife about “hella” all the time. :) all in good fun. every region has its idiosyncrasies.
arguingwithsignposts
Wheee! Ain’t this fun!
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
Aaand once again Timmy realizes that he’s in the wrong and he really did post the information here that he claimed I “stalked” him to get, so he immediately goes on the attack to try and cover up his own error. So typical.
muddy
@quannlace: They should have been cooked long since. Maybe they are broken!
I’ve heard of putting baking soda in the water but have never done it, because generally an overnight soak and an hour of cooking is about all I ever need.
SatanicPanic
Seriously? Why do you guys bother?
Mnemosyne
@arguingwithsignposts:
Well, to be fair, it’s not like there was going to be a sober, rational, and contrarian discussion of whether or not the wingnut libertarian professor was right, because his claim was morally vile to begin with.
Kay
That might be a fun thought experiment for him.
Tell him his dentist has been indicted for sexually assaulting male patients while they were sedated.
Wait a week, then tell him it was a hypothetical.
Rex Everything
@Kay: Most definitely… But I’m not sure how this is a response to my post?
TooManyJens
@Kay:
He’d probably just argue that his theory holds up, but the patients are just being illogical. So it’s their fault, really.
Trollhattan
@ranchandsyrup:
We’re a heat-addled bunch. I’m oddly proud we remain subbornly immune to putting “the” in front of freeway numbers, having just driven I-5 to nearly Mexico and back.
“Wait, Sheila (the Aussie GPS voice) just said take ‘the four-oh-five.'” After a few days there it becomes eerily normal sounding.
Bubblegum Tate
@quannlace:
You may have just gotten some bad beans. I have found that beans have a really large variance in cooking times–after a 24-hour soak (I don’t even do water changes), I’ve had them be done in about an hour, and I’ve had them take closer to 4.
I believe America’s Test Kitchen advocates the baking soda method @muddy describes above, and ATK is a pretty reliable source for such things, so maybe give that a try?
EconWatcher
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.
Balloon Juice: It’s like a soup kitchen for hungry trolls.
Darkrose
@RSA: I
It’s been over ten years since I’ve seen or spoken to him, I think, but I strongly suspect that the problem is that he doesn’t have anyone in his life who’ll tell him “Dude, you’re being a dick.” That may be why he’s going from occasionally annoying but sometimes amusing contrarian jerk to full-time douchey asshole.
Baud
@Kay:
Or not.
TooManyJens
@EconWatcher: But the beans in your soup might not be cooked.
Cassidy
@Mnemosyne: Be careful. Now that you’ve hurt it’s wittle fee fees it’s going to send an email to Cole and then stalk you afterward, begging you to prove that Cole wasn’t just humoring the whiny little shit.
bemused
Libertarians always make me think of Bill Lumberg from Office Space.
Kay
@Rex Everything:
Sorry. I meant they’ll realize it’s a pretty silly theory.
People usually respond to those cases like “OMG! What about all the people who don’t know what happened while they were out cold!”
I think there’s pyschic harm, mass panic by anyone who had a root canal anywhere near the offender.
schrodinger's cat
@quannlace: Use a pressure cooker to cook beans.
schrodinger's cat
@Bubblegum Tate: They are good in general, but some of their recipes are unintentionally hilarious and time consuming and convoluted.
EconWatcher
It occurs to me that there’s a whole meta, “troll within a troll” thing going on in this thread. The FP post was about trolling, and then a notorious troll trolled the thread, and then a regular commenter trolled the troll in retaliation.
It’s all worthy of John Barth, I tell you. Great art.
Trollhattan
@bemused:
TPS reports for everybody! No, wait, just for those who earn them.
Ted & Hellen
I’ll just leave this here again, courtesy of Menmospleen:
eemom
Is the pie filter now a bean filter?
Also too, Ward Churchill. Discuss.
Kay
@Baud:
I love how crazy he is. Google one of those incidents ( there are lots).
There are ZERO patients who say “well, I was lucky, because I got enough gas so I was probably out cold for the whole ordeal. I think. No telling what happened in there, really!”
Trollhattan
@Kay:
I give you Dr. William Miofsky.
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/703/332/12308/
Wait, the victims were women. But, still….
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@kc:
And please don’t feed the trolls, or at least don’t quote them. Kthxbai.
Mnemosyne
@quannlace:
I know this makes me a bad cook, but I just buy canned beans. Soaking them from dry just doesn’t seem worth it to me, especially since I usually don’t make more than 4 servings of anything at one time.
Dan
@EconWatcher: and also, beans!
TooManyJens
@eemom: I hear the Nation of Islam is developing a bean pie filter.
joes527
@schrodinger’s cat:
I knew someone who did this regularly and nothing bad happened.
But I’ve also heard people say that this is dangerous because if the vent gets blocked then the pressure cooker becomes a bomb.
Rex Everything
@Kay: Oh. Yeah. The Landsburg post is so insanely wrong on so many levels, it’s hard to know where to start, but your hypothetical is a good one.
Another way is to simply point out that his 3 examples are total bullshit: nobody predicates their prudery, their environmentalism, or their anti-rape views on the psychic distress they themselves allegedly suffer from porn, pollution, or rape. The case for all three, rightly or wrongly, is based on the contention that they do real harm, to either society, Nature, or an individual’s body. The whole conception of all these people basing their activism on their own distress is a dodge.
Roger Moore
@scav:
I think the correct thing is to say that employees are free to speak their opinions as long as they aren’t misrepresenting them as the official institutional position. You then either present the official position or the lack thereof. What you don’t do is to give the jackass any more publicity by taking a swipe at him or his beliefs.
raven
@joes527: Bah, I do it at least once a week. Follow the directions and you’ll be fine.
1badbaba3
@DougJ, Friend of Hamas: Fuck the University, what are YOU going to do? I cannot believe that you of all people will do nothing, say nothing. You’ve dogged out bigger assholes for less. Saying nothing just lets Rape Culture fester and grow. And that’s not the DougJ we all know and love. DO SOMETHING! And it better be good, or I want my 20 bucks back.
raven
Pressure Cookers
joes527
@raven:
k. Now I know 2 people who do it regularly and nothing bad happened.
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
And yet you never answered the question: since you think that assaulting unconscious people isn’t a big deal, why are you shocked and horrified by the scenario laid out? After all, if your daughter doesn’t find out, then there’s no harm, no foul just like the Steubenville victim, right?
Are you trying to change your story and now claim that there actually is something inherently harmful in someone being sexually assaulted even if they were unconscious? If not, then why is the scenario I laid out disgusting but the one the libertarian professor lays out A-OK?
raven
@joes527: I’m pretty experienced but, as you will read on that link, today’s pressure cookers are nothing like the old ones.
Jamie
It is Ted & Helen pie, all the way down. Also, turtles. Too funny – I’m glad that our conservative counterparts are learning performance art. At least they can be entertaining while being blithering idiots.
N.B. (look it up, if need be): “fuck you” isn’t generally considered a rational argument by people who disagree with each other*, but nonetheless, attempt to work out differences and find a common ground from which to figure out how to live together. If you just want to be a bomb-chucking asshole, by all means, I will ignore you after this. Carry on. But you’re welcome to join the conversation whenever you might find yourself house trained.
*I’m not above telling people to fuck off; I’ve got the foulest mouth in my household, no doubt. The difference is having a sensible argument. You know, one that humans might understand, and even if they disagree, have a sensible argument. Nonsense gets, well, fuck you.
Baud
@Kay:
True, but how many of those patients have taken Landsburg’s class. Maybe they don’t understand how truly fortunate they are.
ranchandsyrup
@Trollhattan: Calling it “the 5” used to drive my dad crazy. He’d tie an onion to his belt and go on and on about how self important people are that use it.
joes527
@raven: I think that’s actually my friend’s pressure cooker in the picture next to the paragraph on old, unsafe cookers.
raven
@ranchandsyrup: It’s all them LA Freeways.
Citizen Alan
@Bubblegum Tate:
What baffles me about this is that I believe in this conspiracy wholeheartedly! I just think that the conspiracy is being run by the Republicans! Does anyone think that Pete Peterson and David Koch and the rest of their ilk don’t want an authoritarian world government with them at the top?
Scott S.
Republican troll defends rape and Republicans, then whines about being persecuted. Same as every day, isn’t it?
joes527
@ranchandsyrup: “Take the 5” and “Take 5” are as different from each other as “Take the A train” is from “Take a train.”
Haydnseek
@TooManyJens: I saw what you did there….Your intertoobz will be delivered to you by a black man in a nice suit and snappy bow tie…….
ranchandsyrup
@raven: We does it down in San Diego county as well. We’re all uppity. The whole lot of us.
@joes527: I’m stealing that thankyewverymuch. Reminds me of “the difference between your and you’re is knowing your shit and knowing you’re shit”.
1badbaba3
@Ted & Hellen: If only you had stopped after the first three words. You would have been a fucking hero. Oh well. Everybody loves pie, no?
Yutsano
@Scott S.: Forget it, Scott, it’s Special Timmeh. He’s paid to post here after all!
Rex Everything
@joes527: I’ve always felt that Duke Ellington should have capped off his Such Sweet Thunder sessions with a reworking of his earlier material entitled “Take Thee a Train.”
scav
@Roger Moore: More or less what I was hoping to aim for and probably missing because of aforementioned lack of muckity-speak+manners. I have however managed to cook beans both inside and sans pressure cooker without exploding anything. Never much noticed any difference because of adding salt early or late in the process. As I only eat my boiled eggs under duress and solidly boiled (over dead dead dead being even lower down the scale) I won’t even bother with that line of current cooking tips. And are there regional conventions about including the “I” in freeway/highway/interstate/thruway/help! designations? Have I missed anything? Oh yes, hidden instructions in all topics.
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
The real reason to cook them yourself is that they taste better. You can put in good spices, bacon, etc. and it really makes a difference. It’s really easy if you have a slow cooker.
moops
Why go all the way to Rochester to see how effective censure is for libertarian/contrarian trolls. BJ has a full-time regular one. Look how much good unanimous censure has done.
Maybe DougJ is right.
Ted & Hellen
@Mnemosyne:
In my first comment in this very thread, I specifically wrote that “I agree” that “non consensual sex is rape.” Go fucking read it. What part of that statement don’t you get, c#nt brain?
Secondly, I have NEVER once said that the libertarian professor’s scenario is “A-OK.” You are dishonest beyond words. It is kind of breath taking.
Baud
Balloon Juice: Where you can learn about the horror of rape and the joy of cooking beans in a single thread.
Who wouldn’t pay $19.99 a year to be part of that?
ETA: And pie!
Darkrose
@Trollhattan: I do a weird hybrid of places I’ve lived, so I tend to use both “hella” and “wicked”. I’ve never lived in the South, but I blame my mother for “y’all”.
I died a little inside the first time I said something was “wicked pissah” unironically.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@ranchandsyrup:
Freeway nomenclature is even more diverse depending on which side of L.A. you live. East of town here we tend to call freeways by their numbers. Roughly west of the 110 they call them by their names.
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
I see you cut your own comment down:
You claim you agree, but you say you don’t understand why that’s so and that people who think that non-consensual sex is bad need to explain why it’s bad.
This is one of your favorite games, by the way — you pretend you disagree with the horrific statement but demand that people concoct complicated arguments against the horrific statement anyway.
Here’s the other part of your comment:
If you’re a man in your 50s working as a professor and you still need something as basic as, “It’s rape even if she’s unconscious” explained to you, then you are far beyond any “philosophical discourse” repairing your ignorance.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: You’re trying to reach the unreachable. I find Special Timmeh to be just totes adorbs at this point.
And I have never gotten an e-mail from JC. Ever.
Catsy
@Ted & Hellen:
Cunt… brain…?
Seriously?
After all this, that’s your play? That’s your witty rejoinder? Wow. You really got nothin’.
Go home, child. Grownups talking.
Baud
@Yutsano:
Has anyone ever gotten an email from JC?
ETA: How’d your work situation turn out?
Just Some Fuckhead
Awesome. Another enjoyable rape thread destroyed by petty arguing and breathtakingly hideous namecalling.
Shalimar
@Ted & Hellen: What you see as vile personal attacks seem to me at least to be mnemosyne positing personal hypotheticals which shows what a horrible person you would be if you actually practiced the contrarian shit you support here.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I’m just disappointed that the next post appeared before we got around to the joys of raping beans.
Yutsano
@Baud: Coulda been worse. I’m still rather unhappy about it all, so I put in for a couple of positions in other locations. One is in New Mexico. The other is in Hawai’i. Decisions decisions. :)
moops
@Just Some Fuckhead:
….which we were conscious for, and didn’t consent to.
Cassidy
@Yutsano: You forgot sad and pathetic.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Baud:
Yes and he isn’t really a Nigerian government official.
Fool me once.
1badbaba3
@Yutsano: Egads, I hope they aren’t paying much. What a rip off.
Just Some Fuckhead
Hey, not to go too far off topic here but do any of you c#nt brains know how to boil an egg?
Cassidy
Uh oh, someone is going to threaten to get a lawyer! That’s Timmy’s refuge.
Baud
@Yutsano:
Wow. Neat choices. The cool thing about Hawaii is that you can participate in the late-night threads here at a decent hour….Damn, I need a life.
Hope it all works out.
kc
@Ted & Hellen:
Why is that bad? If you can’t explain why, you suck.
Cassidy
@Just Some Fuckhead:
C’mon now. Keep up.
Shalimar
As for Landsburg, this is a hypothetical posed by someone with no empathy. He really doesn’t understand why women should care about being raped if they don’t know about it. Give them a strong enough dose of rohypnol to knock them out completely, and what’s the big deal? He doesn’t empathize with female victims, and he can’t even imagine that kind of rape happening to a guy like him. Maybe if he could, he would realize why it was still wrong.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Cassidy: Fixed.
kc
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
That quote was from DougJ.
Just Some Fuckhead
“Uh oh here comes a flock of wah wahs!”
kc
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Soft or hard?
joes527
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I’ve heard good things about pressure cookers….
aimai
@Rex Everything:
That is correct. There were many, many, many, logical flaws in the proposition he offered the students for consideration and its pretty clear from his history and his libertarian positions that he was either unaware of them or using the framework of the class to obscure them. I’m perfectly familiar with University teaching, law school teaching, the socratic method and also using parables and examples to help your students tease out the underlying issues–this is emphatically not what he was doing. The “argument” was essentially a Posnerian Push Poll style law and econ bit of sleight of hand.
I once heard Posner argue that there was (obviously, to him) less rape in the Black community because so many Black men were in prison that the ones who were out of prison did not need to resort to rape in order to get sex. He seemed unaware that women might have, you know, actual preferences as to their sexual partners or that, in the famous expression “Men don’t rape because they can’t get the sex they like, Rape isthe kind of sex they like.”
You notice he did not make the less shocking and more personal argument that if the Chinese were to steal his image and his lectures and market them in China at a mirror university, reaping a huge benefit, but he was unware that this would be both moral and righteous. Why not? Its just as good–if not better–than his rape example. Could it be that he holds his property rights and his ownership of his image and its value higher than he does a woman’s autonomy and physical integrity? Why, yes.
These assholes always hide behind “just asking questions” when its obvious that their questions are designed to be propaganda for some extremely disgusting views. And they rely on the ignorance and profound naivte of their student auditors to keep them from being confronted with their philosophical and moral dishonesty.
aimai
@TooManyJens:
He would argue that in his hypothetical the girl never finds out and the patient never finds out. As soon as the real world intrudes, he’d jump back and disclaim responsibility for the implications of his hypothetical and shout “honi soit qui mal y pense.”
Zapruder F. Mashtots, D.D.S. (Mumphrey, et al.)
I don’t know who Ted & Hellen is (are?), but I have to give it credit. It takes a lot of talent to come onto a thread about this Landsburg guy, and contend with his douchiness. I’m impressed.
I always wonder about people who even ask these “hypothetical” questions. To me, it belies a really creepy fetish about raping people. I mean, do normal people, healthy people, even ask this kind of shit? And if your answer to that is “yes,” then I’d ask you, how would you feel if your daughter brought Landsburg or Ted & Hellen home and told you she was thinking about marrying him? I don’t know about you, but I’d be worried as hell.
Roger Moore
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
I don’t think that’s quite it. It’s that some freeways are know by numbers and others by names, and that most of the ones that are known by their names are downtown or west of it. As I see it, most freeways are called by their number unless:
1) Different stretches of the same numbered freeway are known by different names (e.g. Santa Monica and San Bernardino stretches of the 10, Pasadena and Harbor stretches of the 110). In that case, they give the name (sometimes backed up by the number) because it’s more specific.
2) The same named freeway changes numbers (e.g. US-101 and CA-170 Hollywood Freeway, CA-134 and US-101 Ventura Freeway). In that case the name is used because it’s a better description of the route.
3) The same numbered California highway is a Freeway for only part of its length (e.g. CA-2 is the Glendale Freeway but also Angeles Crest Highway and Santa Monica Blvd.) Again, giving the freeway name is more specific than the highway number.
PIGL
@Ted & Hellen: As I explained to you allready, before inviting you to go die in a fire, the rapey libertarian troll was not being all socratic; the textual evidence is that he means it.
Also, too, we are not required to substantiate to you our opposition to rape, torture, systematic deprivation of the helpless, slavery or any other evil to your satisfaction on demand. So fuck off, already.
PIGL
@Ted & Hellen: can dish it out, can’t take it. and we’re what, surprised by this?
Yutsano
@Just Some Fuckhead: Yes.
Paulk
Why do I get the funny feeling that if we were talking about him being passed out and someone else putting a dick in his mouth, he wouldn’t find the whole concept of sex without consent so unobjectionable? “Hey, dude! The STD test came back negative. No harm, no foul!”
Haydnseek
@Just Some Fuckhead: There was a conspiracy not to tell you, but someone spilled the beans…….
scav
@Roger Moore: I think that’s closer to it. I wouldn’t have known the number of the Pasadena if there was money riding on it, and I’m not sure I would have known which the Foothill was (was that even official or only a family name? I don’t know if I’m thinking of the Blvd or the Freeway, but I’m remembering back to when the one had orange groves and other dead-ended in Glendora or so.)
West of the Rockies
@Citizen Alan: I hear you… I think corporatization of everything (with a focus on maximized profits, don’t you know) is really the order of the day and what we need to be afraid of. Now, unlike the right-wing NWO worriers, I don’t think there is any danger any time real soon of corporate takeover of everything — but the effort needs to be monitored.
West of the Rockies
@Just Some Fuckhead: Okay, that was funny.
Just Some Fuckhead
@West of the Rockies: Right? This place.
Sigh.
lojasmo
@Ted & Hellen:
I’m not quoting you to save the sensibilities of other posters here.
It is illegal because it sexual ASSAULT, you fucking psychopath.
West of the Rockies
@Catsy: Yes, we all are back in 7th grade…. :(
Gustopher
I’m torn between thinking he should be censured and fired, so he can go on and on about his rights and remind everyone that libertarians and the rest of the conservatives are (for whatever stupid reason) pro-rape, and that he should be given a half-assed, dismissive, pro-forma censure of the form “we disapprove of his statements, but we don’t think he’s stupid enough to believe this shit — if making stupid statements is his way of getting appearances on talk radio or something, eh, whatever.”
Unsympathetic
@Ted & Hellen:
Back on point, because freedom.
Why, exactly, do you think rapey rapist’s point of view deserves to be considered?
If you can’t explain, then you suck.
I want to know what words, phrases, and thought processes go through your head when you make posts like this so that I can, you know, learn and grow. You know, this whole crazy philosophical discourse thing people talk about.
SatanicPanic
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: If beans are unconscious I don’t see why we shouldn’t reap the beanefits.
Roger Moore
@scav:
There is a Foothill Freeway, which is the 210 (I-210 from I-5 in Sylmar to CA-57 in San Dimas, then CA-210 to I-10 in Redlands). IIRC, the stretch from San Dimas east was originally signed as CA-30 until the extension through to I-15 was completed, at which point it was re-signed as CA-210. That kind of thing is exactly why it makes sense to give names instead of numbers.
Foothill Blvd. is a different matter. There are several, non-contiguous streets by that name that run roughly parallel to the Foothill Freeway and the base of the San Gabriels. As you might expect, they tend either to twist and turn a bit to avoid running into the mountains or to end when they bump into them. A quick look at Google Maps shows at least 3 and possibly 5 streets by that name, depending on how you treat it when a name continues across a several block long jog.
PIGL
@aimai: what you said is exactly 100% my thoughts on the subject except better expressed than I have ever managed. Thank you for this.
muddy
@SatanicPanic: Gods bless you.
Just Some Fuckhead
@SatanicPanic:
I don’t think that’s funny. My sweetpea was raped at Camp Legume.
muddy
HA! (Chris Matthews noise)
Rex Everything
Panthro is a complex ThunderCat. On the one hand he has great passion, love of family, and life. With an infectious laugh, accompanied by a good sense of humor. On the other hand, he is a stone cold warrior. He lives by the ThunderCats warrior code. Pride, excellence, and loyalty are a hallmark of what makes Panthro tick. Because of his passion he is known to lose his patience with other ThunderCats. On the field of battle, however, he is cool, calm and collected, although he has a phobia of bats. Because of this, Panthro has gained respect both from friends and enemies alike. They respect the king, but fear the panther. In combat, he uses a pair of nunchaku with open-away cat-paws, which house several chemical spray-compounds, and objects such as ball bearings, that he can use against foes. The spikes on his chest bands can be used like projectile weapons or as rappelling lines.
schrodinger's cat
@joes527: Hubcat deals with the pressure cooker, if you keep it clean and change the gasket regularly, it is pretty safe. Follow the instruction manual.
Anne Laurie
@schrodinger’s cat:
I use my rice cooker, which I guess is a pressure cooker.
Regnad Kcin
NB (again): sautéing the beans in olive oil for a minute or two before adding water to the pressure cooker limits foaming which could theoretically block the vent. But 20 years of said practice, and I’ve still got all my limbs & digits…
Sadie
@Mnemosyne: Please don’t feed the obvious troll.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Mnemosyne:
That was pretty awesome, BTW.
different-church-lady
Doug, seriously, what the hell? You can’t be that dumb after all this time. Trolls aren’t interested in building political movements. They’re interested in trolling.
Michael Finn
I am all for academic free speech but what is the point of this speech?
If there is no academic reason for this absolute filth then the university should censor him and say that it takes sexual assault on innocent kids very seriously and cannot stand beside somebody that does not.
I don’t care if he does become popular or it helps his career, it shouldn’t be done being backed up by said institution.
J.W. Hamner
I’m just sort of baffled that the dude thinks that not being raped while unconscious is a property rights issue.
PIGL
@J.W. Hamner: for libertarians of a certain propertarian strain, everything is a property rights issue. They are, of course, purely crazy.
noabsolutes
ah, another episode of “maybe you don’t get to do everything you want,” brought to you by women and black people. glibertarian is understandably very upset about this whole “not getting to do everything you want” scenario.
Odie Hugh Manatee
You ought to check with Mickey Kaus, I bet he would jump at the chance!
Morzer
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
We even have a shot of Teddy exercising his droit de seigneur on the casting couch…
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://margot.id.au/italy%25202/italy%2520web%25202/album/slides/pompei%2520pan%2520and%2520goat.jpg&imgrefurl=http://margot.id.au/italy%25202/italy%2520web%25202/album/slides/pompei%2520pan%2520and%2520goat.html&h=600&w=738&sz=62&tbnid=Nm-X1G8KFabaFM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=118&zoom=1&usg=__-xSA-S5ISeVdXUa0JCBtRRNjCYQ=&docid=FBQAUMrQJLr7LM&sa=X&ei=_LBbUeq3BrHk4AOb_4HwCQ&ved=0CEIQ9QEwAQ&dur=383
Odie Hugh Manatee
Careful, you’re gonna get him excited!
Irish Steel
@Morzer: OM-fucking-G. I was not expecting that.
Hats off to he who can shock me with stuff on the internet!
Betsy
@quannlace: unlike Cole’s eggs, they’re too old. Old eggs. New beans.
Sometimes dried beans sit on the shelves at the store a long time. Then they never get soft with cooking.
Johannes
In addition to being a reptilian approach to ethics worthy of a Silurian, Landsburg’s “thought experiment” is old. It is an application of Posner’s article “An Economic Theory of Criminal Law,” 85 Colum. L. Rev. 1193 (1985), to the facts of the Steubenville rape case. It’s just as stupid–indeed, more so–from Landsburg in 2013 as it was from Posner in 1985. At least in 1985, it had the dubious merit of being novel. Now, it’s equally cold-blooded, foolish and loathsome, with the added flaw of being jejune and swiped without attribution.
brantl
Just start having bumper stickers that ask if it’s OK with him if it happens to his wife and daughter(s).
mds
Okay, DougJ, you’re not a fan of the censure idea. I can respect that. So how about ten bucks if you pop over to Harkness and kick him in the balls? If you wear one of your anonymizing meetup photo outfits, he’ll never be able to identify his attacker.
lojasmo
@EconWatcher:
My first thought upon reading the post was that the whole thing was trolling timmeh.
What a maroon.