This is very interesting (though the seven points could be noise):
Just 35 percent of Republicans support the idea of a path to citizenship while 60 percent oppose it in the Post-ABC poll, which was produced by Capital Insight. Among self-described “conservative Republicans,” the numbers are even more negative toward a path, with just 30 percent supporting the idea. And, Republican support is waning — ticking down seven points since a Post-ABC survey in February.
Not sure how immigration reform with a path-to-citizenship gets through Congress, not with these numbers.
kindness
It doesn’t. We are all just witnessing the beginning of the 2016 election.
Sad isn’t it?
c u n d gulag
Because of ignorance and stupidity, Conservatives know that they’d never pass the test required for US Citizenship, so they don’t want any foreigeners showing them up.
I’m sorry, let me change part of the last paragraph to help Conservatives understand my point:
“…Reel ‘Murkan Sitizinship, so they don’t want no furriners showin’ ’em up!”
The Republic of Stupidity
And thus ensuring the GOP will continue its determined slide into complete irrelevance…
What was that description… an ever bigger percentage of an ever shrinking demographic?
And meanwhile, North Carolina Republicans have apparently decided they need an official state religion and should be exempt from Federal laws…
The clown car rolls on and on…
Violet
Sorry to go OT, but I haven’t posted since Saturday when I asked about DVT because of taking a long haul flight and having pain in my leg. I saw some people were asking about me. Thanks to everyone who responded to my queries.
My leg didn’t get any worse and didn’t really get better. I took aspirin the whole time I was gone. I was out in the middle of nowhere and getting to a doctor on Easter weekend would have been very difficult in addition to disruptive of the party and other gatherings, which were the reason I was there.
Flew back yesterday. Took aspirin every four hours, walked frequently on the plane. Had a long layover and walked the airport. Leg seems fine when I take aspirin–could just be the pain relief/anti-inflammatory qualities or it could be something else. It’s still tender to the touch. Maybe a tiny bit of bruising/discoloration. No swelling except both feet when on the plane, which is normal for me.
Will monitor it today and go to my doctor or an ER if necessary. Thanks again.
c u n d gulag
@Violet:
Take care, and monitor, and know we’re keeping you in our thoughts.
Mark S.
I never thought immigration reform had any chance of passing, no matter how many articles about how Rubio or Rand saying something meant reform is just around the corner now.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Rush Limbaugh is the leader of the Republican party and his reasoning on immigration reform is that the overwhelming majority of immigrants will end up voting for Democrats, so why would that be a good thing for Republicans?
There is no one in the Republican party that has as much influence as Limbaugh does and he’s telling his ditto heads to oppose immigration reform, or “shamnesty”, as Michele Malkin says over and over and over…
Hill Dweller
The Republican party is full of racist morons.
Older_Wiser
O/T, but Rutgers has finally fired Mike Rice.
Schlemizel
@kindness:
I was going to say the way meaningful reform gets passed is just after 2016 when the goopers get their asses kicked again while drawing even fewer Hispanic votes and the parties masters demand a bill.
jenn
@Violet: Yikes. Just a suggestion for future – if your feet/legs do tend to swell on trips, look into getting a pair of compression socks. They reduce the odds of DVT, and are a lot more comfortable.
beltane
I see the GOP is determined to make themselves as unpalatable as possible to America’s fastest growing demographic groups. Soon, they will be like Limburger cheese, a stinking mess to most people, but totally yummy in the tummy for the few people out there who adore the smell of dirty underwear.
schrodinger's cat
Best Case scenario. Comprehensive immigration reform passes the senate, tanks in the Congress. MSM will tut-tut and then move on to the next conservative media darling on the horizon. Someone, even crazier than Cruz and Bachmann, but pretty, the media swoons.
The Moar You Know
Chamber of Commerce is pushing it like crazy. That being said, the base simply will not stand for it, and if the House does pass it (I think there’s a good chance they will, all Dems plus safe GOP) you will see the base institute a purity purge that will guarantee a Goldwater zombie as the ticket leader in 2016, and a Dem victory.
Given the situation we’re in with Congress, that won’t be enough no matter which Dem wins it. We need the House back, and I don’t see how we get there.
Roger Moore
Immigration reform only passes if the Actually Orange Satan is willing to ignore the Hastert
RuleGuidelineGentle Suggestion again.Villago Delenda Est
One problem the Rethugs have is they’ve got this Blut und Boden concept of being an American citizen that fails to acknowledge that this is a nation of immigrants and the descendants of immigrants.
A path to citizenship has always been part of the deal. That’s why there are “naturalized” Americans all over the place. To deny it now is to basically take a huge dump on over two centuries of the way things have been.
It underlines what we all know here…that the GOP is now the party of the racist traditions of the old Confederacy.
The Moar You Know
@Older_Wiser: Good, but this isn’t over yet as the AD and school president really need to explain their actions – or more precisely their lack thereof.
schrodinger's cat
I have said this before, and I will say this again. Much of the GOP base is against immigration, legal or not. They are focusing on the illegal immigrants because that is a lower hanging fruit, and they can get people riled up about it more easily. Just like in the abortion debate, where they want to legislate female sexuality by going after contraception but making it about abortion, obscures their more radical agenda.
Higgs Boson's Mate
If the Republicans lose their base then they at some point lose the House majority and become irrelevant. The only immigration reform they’ll countenance is sowing antipersonnel mines along the U.S.- Mexico border.
Suffern ACE
@jenn: I support the investment in supporthose. Not to make fun. As someone who ended up in the ER with a DVT scare after a flight, I’ve been following the doctor’s advice on that since then. It was either that, or grounding myself.
beltane
@Villago Delenda Est: The GOP base seems to define “real American” as being the descendants of people of British ancestry who once took up arms against the United States of America. Funny how that works.
schrodinger's cat
@beltane: But not if they are from ebil librul Massachusetts.
Jay C
@Villago Delenda Est:
FTFY
Roger Moore
@Villago Delenda Est:
And people already here have been fighting against immigration at least since the days of Lief Erickson. You only have to look at the Alien Act and the Know-Nothings to realize that opposition to immigration is as American as immigration is.
Bobby Thomson
@Mark S.: This.
Ash Can
GOP outreach and rebranding continue apace…
Suffern ACE
@schrodinger’s cat: Yep. They rely on 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants misremembering their grandparents immigration experience as well. Yeah. Yeah. Your grandma didn’t have anyone pandering to her and she didn’t demand nothing so why do I have to press 1 for English.
JGabriel
WaPo via DougJ:
Are there really enough Republicans left who don’t consider themselves Conservative as to be statistically significant?
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore:
Well, given how well the indigenous peoples have fared over the centuries of incoming Europeans, I can fully understand their attitude about immigrants.
It’s guys like Tom Tancredo (for the love of all things WASP, the guy’s name ends in a fucking vowel!) who drive me nuts. Scalia also seems to have forgotten that there was a time not so long ago when immigrants from Italy were scarcely better than the former property of Southern planters, and were not “real” White people.
SatanicPanic
@The Moar You Know: If enough $$$ are dangled in front of them they’ll push it through and then go find jobs at the Heritage Foundation.
Valdivia
if it depends on Rubio or anyone who wants to survive a primary with the Republican base it won’t pass. But maybe others will carry the ball?
Villago Delenda Est
Immigration is a crucial wedge issue for the Rethugs. The country club types support it, because they want more cheap labor. Undocumented immigrants are even better because they won’t go to the authorities when they’re treated like shit.
Then you’ve got the racists, who don’t want more immigrants, period, because they’ll be inclined to vote Dem once they’re citizens because of the racists.
The deserting coward and Rove knew the demographic trends were working against the old white resentment basis of GOP electoral strategy since Nixon’s time. The white resentment faction however knows only about their resentment, and do not care one whit about the Bush Crime Family’s long term goals.
MattF
So, what do you call a Republican who supports same-sex marriage, immigration reform, women’s rights, and is not an evangelical Christian? Just askin’.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Villago Delenda Est:
What’s the point of climbing the ladder if you can’t kick it down after you get to the top?
jenn
@Roger Moore: I’m really curious to know when attitudes toward border crossing changed. Limitations on folks entering from overseas I know about, but from what I can tell from some of the research I’ve been doing, folks basically treated the US-Canadian border as if it weren’t there. Americans heading north to start up businesses in Canada, Canadians coming south to work. WW1 maybe??
pk
I don’t think it will help the republicans even if immigration reform does pass. As soon as the process starts there will be an onslaught of racism and hatred on display from the usual crowd. And non-whites will remember that even if republicans help pass legislation. I think the biggest problem for republicans is their acceptance of intolerance and sheer bloody minded stupidity. Immigration reform will be something that Obama passes either in the face of republican obstruction (therefore making him the good guy) or he will be defeated because of republican obstruction (still the good guy). It’s a lose-lose situation for the GOP.
scav
@MattF: lonely.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@MattF:
Michael Bloomberg.
[I know, I know, he’s an “Independent”. That’s nice, now would you like to see the slightly used bridge I have for sale?]
beltane
@Villago Delenda Est: People like Tom Tancredo and Antonin Scalia suffer from what I call “Last Guys on the White Bus” syndrome. Being from an ethnicity that has only recently been accepted as fully white, with all the perks and benefits that entails, they feel the need to be whiter-than-thou lest they be confused with non-white people of the same complexion.
GregB
On the bright side, 77% of Republicans support a pathway to fascism.
Zandar
It would take a miracle to pass the Senate. It will not get a vote in the House. I’ve been saying this for months now. Not like the GOP would lose more than 10-15 seats anyway due to gerrymandering. Just put all the moderately non-white looking folk in one or two districts in your state and continue to send 218+ lunatic asshole racist crackers to Washington. Meanwhile, just take over the state legislatures and nullify anything you don’t like.
We’re going to be paying for 2010 until 2022, minimum.
Roger Moore
@Villago Delenda Est:
It’s the classic difference between liberals and conservatives. Liberals remember that their ancestors were treated badly when they were immigrants, think that was unfair, and resolve to treat today’s immigrants better. Conservatives remember that their ancestors were treated badly when they were immigrants, think that was unfair, and feel that it’s finally their turn to do the persecuting.
ruemara
@Violet: Get to see a doctor now, really. Not just aspirin, not just looking for swelling. Go. Now. I had DVT from using birth control. Do not mess around with it.
Roger Moore
@MattF:
Imaginary.
schrodinger's cat
@Roger Moore: I know one of those. His wife and children are liberal, voted for Obama. He is one of those old school New England country club Republicans.
ruemara
@MattF: A Blue Dog Dem.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
Yep.
I’ve said it before – if I had to guess, immigration will be the wedge issue that splits them wide open in the same way civil rights did for us fifty years ago.
Yutsano
@Zandar: Demographics aren’t static. Gerrymandering and voter suppression will only get them short-term gains even if Section V goes the way of the dodo. They are on the wrong side of the down slope and they know it, so they’re trying to fight that with everything they have.
patroclus
Immigration reform bills are considered about once every generation and they are always very contentious and take at least one full Session (and often more) before action is finally taken. When Simpson-Mazolli was first debated in the House last time (in the 80’s), it went down the first time and only re-emerged the next Session. We are only at the beginning of this process this term and there will be hearings and debate and various versions and public opionion may well shift during that time as the issues crystallize.
For example, if the Senate ends up passing a bill with significant Republican support, the odds of passage in the House will go up. If it’s (or merely if it’s perceived as being) a strictly partisan bill, however, the odds will go down. The dance of legislation is a step-by-step process and just because Limbaugh et. al. oppose it now doesn’t necessarily mean ultimate failure this term (or next).
R-Jud
@Violet: I had a post-operative DVT, and it very nearly ruined my life. Don’t mess around with this, get seen and rule it out (or start treatment) ASAP.
Roger Moore
@Yutsano:
If Section V goes away, the Democrats are going to have an uphill fight. The gerrymandering might be undone by demographic changes by the time 2020 rolls around, but with Section V out of the way, the Republicans can back it up with enough voter suppression to keep them in control for another round of redistricting for 2022. And you can bet that their electoral college ratfucking will come back, possibly with enough force to tip a close 2016 Presidential election their way. Things could get really, really ugly.
catclub
@schrodinger’s cat: “Much of the GOP base is against immigration, legal or not.”
That would be the part of the base that does not realize that low wage employers (the other part of the GOP base) love them some illegal immigration. Cheap, abusable workers, almost as good as slavery.
Also, remember the Texas law to exempt homeowners from required immigration checks on their yard workers? Fun times.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore:
This is classic Puritan behavior. They didn’t object so much to religious persecution, they objected that they didn’t get to do the persecution.
They got their way in the early Massachusetts Bay colony, and the fruit of their labors was Rhode Island.
The Ancient Randonneur
1. The Earth was created a thousand years after the Sumerians invented ink.
TRUE/FALSE
2. Slavery was good for the Africans brought here in chains.
TRUE/FALSE
3. The people who were already here when Columbus discovered this place were immmigrants, too!
TRUE/FALSE
4. Ship all the illegals back to where they came from and we would have plenty of jobs for Real Americans.
TRUE/FALSE
If you answered TRUE to all of these questions, you are now part of the GOP base. Your welcome packet will arrive via UPS. (No socia1ist Post Office for these guys!)
scav
@The Ancient Randonneur: 5. The absolute beating heart, essence and foundation (without which it and all society falls) of Christian Marriage is encapsulated in all those that are forbidden long-term recognized relationships.
TRUE/MANIFESTLY TRUE
Comrade Dread
It doesn’t. Because they don’t want a few million more Mexicans acquiring citizenship. But don’t call them racist.
They will, of course, claim that they just want to secure the border first, but will look at you blankly when you tell them that the number of border agents has doubled under the last two administrations and that illegal crossings are also down.
Gin & Tonic
@The Ancient Randonneur:
Well, they were. Everybody came here from somewhere else. 100 years ago or 12,000 years ago, they all came here from elsewhere.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@JGabriel: Considering how little difference there was between the two percentages, I would say the answer is no.
JGabriel
Zandar:
Right. On top of which, only the non-elected GOP ‘elites’ are worried about Immigration Reform or expanding the base. Any Republican House Rep./Senator is far more worried about getting primaried from the right in the next election than they are about the party’s future viability as the voice of white resentment in an increasingly multi-ethnic country.
scav
There were 27 in the bed, and the outlier said “Roll Over! Roll Over!” so they all rolled over and One Fell Out. . .
Yutsano
@Roger Moore: Note to self: get that international accounting cert ready. I hear Australia is nice this time of year.
kc
What do we mean when we say “immigration reform?”
Roger Moore
@Villago Delenda Est:
It’s classic human behavior. You see it all the time in minor things. A great example is various hazing rituals, which victims almost always hate, only to turn around and become big supporters the moment they’re the ones doing the hazing. Honestly, the idea of treating others better than you and yours were treated is a really radical one.
Omnes Omnibus
@kc:
I would say that it starts with trying to match the legal structure of immigration to the facts on the ground. There are a large number of people in this country who are doing the tough and unpleasant jobs that have usually been done by first generation immigrants. Because they do not have an official, legal status here, they are easily exploited. This is bad, both for them and for legal immigrants and US citizens.
kc
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t have a problem with that. But I just read an article about Lindsey Graham helping a country club get temporary visas to bring Jamaicans to work a golf tournament on Kiawah Island, claiming that only 9 Americans responded to a help wanted ad, and 3 of them failed a drug test. This in a state (SC) with higher than the national average unemployment.
I think Graham is full of shit. He used that example in a speech touting immigration reform. This suggest to me that his idea of immigration reform is to make it easier to bring in cheap labor so that employers can pay low wages.
If that’s the GOP’s idea of immigration reform, hell, I’m against it too.
gene108
As much as I’m in favor of immigration reform, the more I’ve had to deal with USCIS lately, the more I realize we can’t handle the influx of applications that immigration reform will cause.
Passing a law without the means to make it work effectively is stupid and undermines the law.
That’s what immigration reform will be.
A complete and total mess with an underfunded agency that’s already back logged on cases for and issues arbitrary decisions for legal immigrants, will just get overworked and unable to keep up with an increased work load, unless government gets its immigration arm in order.
I don’t see that happening.
I expect this attempt by Democrats to lock up the Latino vote will end up as one big clusterfuck, because no one in Congress will think about how to implement it. They’ll just be drooling over the new vote bank they’ve created.
The Moar You Know
@kc: Paying one half of the working class to kill the other, via a race to the bottom regarding wages and working conditions.
This is one issue where I part with both Democrats (who want cheap legal immigrant labor) and Republicans (who want still cheaper and disposable illegal immigrant labor). How about some well paid labor for a change?
RaflW
@The Moar You Know:
I think it will lake a number of losses on things like immigration for the Chamber of Commerce to realize that they’ve been funding and stoking a bugfuck crazy political party that is not the slightest bit interested in their quaint policies.
West of the Rockies
@beltane: How funny… I was going to compare them to a kid in 6th grade who keeps releasing SBD’s (Silent But Deadly) farts into the room where everyone else is trying to get their work done. It is so friggin’ annoying that 27% (or so) of the population determines the general flow and direction of things in this country.
Woodrowfan
You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34
The Moar You Know
@RaflW: Not sure they can change course. They wrote this narrative over fifty years ago that Republicans were the guardians of good business and Dems were the party of welfare handouts, and they’ve dumped so much money into writing and disseminating the narrative that most of the populace believes it.
I think it will take a decade of getting repeatedly and thoroughly shanked before they even start to explore the idea that their narrative is wrong.
West of the Rockies
@Roger Moore: Isn’t that sort of the fraternity dynamic (in some fraternities)? You know, you get hazed and abused and humiliated so that you, too, can become a true brother! Then when it’s your turn, you dish it out.
Disclaimer: I was not in a fraternity, but my hometown has had multiple hazing-related deaths over the last couple decades.
rikyrah
it’s important that the Latino community completely understands who is supporting immigration and who is not.
period
David Koch
@MattF:
Joe Lieberman