Manchin is still a hold-out:
Sen. Tim Johnson (D-S.D.) announced Monday that he now backs gay marriage, becoming the latest in a wave of Senate Democrats lining up to express their support.
“After lengthy consideration, my views have evolved sufficiently to support marriage equality legislation,” Johnson said in a statement. “This position doesn’t require any religious denomination to alter any of its tenets; it simply forbids government from discrimination regarding who can marry whom.”
Sens. Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.) and Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.), who both hail from deeply red states, announced their support for gay marriage last Friday. Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) threw his support behind marriage equality on Thursday, and Sen. Tom Carper (D-Del.) endorsed it on Tuesday.
Only three remaining Democratic senators have not publicly backed gay marriage: Mark Pryor (D-Ark.), Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Mary Landrieu (D-La.). Landrieu and Pryor face reelection in 2014 in Southern red states. Manchin, like Donnelly and Heitkamp, is not up for reelection until 2018.
I would be shocked if he ever comes out one way or another. Remember, he had to go on a listening tour of the state to learn what West Virginian’s felt about ending DADT, and he had been Governor for quite some time and probably had a pretty firm grasp of what West Virginian’s thought about ending DADT– they were agin’ it, so Joe skipped the vote. I’m not sure if he needs a listening tour to find out what we all think about gay marriage (pro-tip- they are really against it), but I am pretty sure I know what he is thinking- “PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LET THIS ISSUE GO AWAY SO I DON’T HAVE TO TAKE A POSITION.”
I’d be absolutely shocked if he even mentions the issue publicly unless cornered, and then he’ll break out this top hat and cane and tried to tap dance through the minefield.
askew
Landrieu gave a statement that basically said she personally supports SSM but has to represent the views of Louisiana. Since both Pryor and Landrieu have tough elections in red states, I can overlook them waiting until November 2014 to announce support SSM.
Manchin on the other hand has zero reason to not come out for SSM. He is insanely popular in WV and doesn’t have to run for re-election for awhile.
arguingwithsignposts
Wow, 2 whole minutes before you stomped on AL’s post. You still got it, JC!
Spaghetti Lee
I’m kind of amazed that this all happened so quickly. Was there a period of a few weeks in 1965 when half the Senate saw the light on civil rights?
Yeah, some of them waited til it was safer. That’s politics for ya. Glad it’s happening anyway. And I’ll tell you who isn’t changing their mind: Principled Libertarian Rand Paul, that’s for damn sure.
Catsy
Well, finally! I was wondering when our side would get around to making this simple, straightforward argument! I can’t imagine why no one ever…
…oh.
Forum Transmitted Disease
I am not sure why getting every last Democrat on board with this matters, since we have a House that would cheerfully send every last queer to hell, and a Senate that requires sixty votes to allow someone to leave to use the bathroom.
ETA: I am happy to have Pryor, Landrieu and Machin where they are instead of the Tea Partiers that would replace them if they were to take a “pro” position on gay marriage.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Standing athwart the train tracks of History hoping not to get run over.
Baud
@Forum Transmitted Disease:
Because unless the Democratic Party is perfect, we have no right to criticize anyone else. Didn’t you get the memo? It’s all over the media and the tubes.
Thoughtcrime
While whistling show-tunes, I presume?
Yutsano
Meh. I’ll take 52 at this point. A couple of Repubs have actually come out in favour so that should give some cover.
eemom
uh oh Cole. Yer issues with older women in authority iz showing again.
Baud
@Thoughtcrime:
Al Jolson, probably. It is West Virginia.
JPL
OT.. The Pres is giving a speech on gun control in CT. It’s a great speech and he’s fired up.
Jay C
To be honest AFAICT, doing a Fred Astaire on the SSM issue is pretty much of a win for the side of Right: whatever Sen. Manchin (or any other Senator) might say or do for the press is less important than what he’ll do on the Senate floor when something actually comes up to Get Done.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Pryor is a young earth creationist, I wouldn’t assume his ignorance is just opportunism.
arguingwithsignposts
@eemom:
OzoneR
It’s West Virginia, I’m pleasantly surprised Manchin doesn’t support a segregation. I’m willing to give him a pass on this.
Yes, I know, Rockefeller, but he’s retiring.
Valdivia
@JPL:
I wish he would give a prime time address on this instead of just doing it locally. It gets zero coverage otherwise.
pokeyblow
I know this isn’t a netflix recommendations thread… but a season of Aaron McGruder’s “Boondocks” cartoon from Comedy Central is available for streaming now. Pointed and pretty damned funny.
Omnes Omnibus
@Forum Transmitted Disease: It is nice to have everyone on the decent side of the issue. There also is a possibility, however faint, that it could matter if Kennedy is looking for evidence of how society views the issue be for he makes a decision in the DOMA case.
fuckwit
He’s busy right now trying to broker a deal on gun safety. The last thing he needs is an issue that will distract him from that.
I don’t really care for the guy, but if he is able with his rural-state cred to get gun safety laws through, then more power to him.
By the way, to completely derail the thread, if anyone on the left calls it “gun control” again I’m going to box their ears. Read fucking Lakoff you idiots. IT IS GUN SAFETY! GUN SAFETY! We need to be safe… from guns… but don’t play into the wingnut framing.
JPL
@Valdivia: Fox wouldn’t cover it so 27 percent wouldn’t see it anyway.
also, too.. what a speech.. this is a loss or victory for me..this is not politics.. this is about these families.. let’s make it a little harder for these kids to gunned down.
dance around in your bones
Obama is fired up and ready to go. Very moving speech on gun safety.
“We deserve a vote!” the audience is chanting.
Obama says “this isn’t about me, or politics”
Valdivia
@JPL:
oh they would see something but they wouldn’t hear anything because the bots there would say Obama wants to take all your guns away over the video.
I guess I find it very frustrating. Obama should use the prime time address–which he has used sparingly since they bitched about the prime time press conferences–and give this speech the night before the vote. It feels wasted because it doesn’t get reported. I just saw yesterday that already the meme has begun that Obama didn’t do enough, lost time on gun control so it’s his fault nothing will get done. Le sigh.
ETA: amazing speech really. makes me even angrier so few people see it. :(
Baud
@Valdivia:
If it’s not “he didn’t do enough,” it’ll be “he pushed too hard.” You’ll eat yourself up worrying about their memes. Yes, sometimes they succeed, but there is only so much you can do.
Valdivia
@Baud:
I know! It’s just that this one bill really means a lot. To all of us. And he is given it his all truly, but I guess the Village couldn’t give a shit so no one hears about it.
JPL
Ask your congressman whether they are more concerned about our children or an A grade from the NRA..
JPL
My tv is on mute but the local tv just showed a portion of the speech.
also, too.. my tv is on mute because I’m streaming the speech.
MeDrewNotYou
@pokeyblow: Minor quibble: The series aired/airs (on Sat nights) on the [adult swim] late night programming block on Cartoon Network. You’re right, though, it is a great series, especially the later seasons.
I noticed that Netflix seems to have picked up a bunch of Cartoon Network/[adult swim] shows lately. Adventure Time and Aqua Teen Hunger Force are both great shows, if you like animation.
dance around in your bones
Prez says “Stand up and let’s make ourselves heard!”
Audience goes crazy, standing, cheering, clapping.
Valdivia
@JPL:
that’s great to hear. just out of curiosity–where are you? just wondering if a good portion of local stations are showing it or if it’s regional.
Baud
@Valdivia:
I’ll be surprised if we get a bill out of this session. It usually takes at least 2-3 sessions to move major initiatives. The problem for our side (on a lot of issues) is that we usually can’t sustain momentum for that long. If we can start to change that with this issue, that will be a good thing.
pokeyblow
MeDrewNotYou… yes. I’m not much of a TV person, and mixed up Comedy Central with Cartoon Network. Thanks, you are absolutely correct.
Sadly, there seem to be only fifteen episodes of Boondocks on now; I’m guessing that’s one season, the first.
JPL
@Valdivia: Atlanta but the tv was on cbs which has had continual coverage of the big game tonight.
danimal
Here’s my advice to SSM advocates: Another GOP senator would be worth two Joe Manchins at this point. Maybe more.
Of course, with my advice, you get what you paid for, and I’m still broke.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@danimal: Portman, Kirk, Murkowski… I’m gonna say Kelly Ayotte is the next one to come out.
Valdivia
@Baud:
even more ridiculous is that the Republicans will pay ZERO for filibustering the bill or they will even stop it from getting it to the floor. Because the Village will treat it as–normal business when it is not. This is why I would like Obama to use the prime time address. Not because it might move the bill, but because it will focus the public’s attention on the behaviour of congress. Maybe.
JPL
@Valdivia: He should give the same speech nation wide but it was a strong enough speech, that it should be picked up on local stations.
Baud
@Valdivia:
I agree. Thanks to a worthless press, the public has internalized Republican behavior as simply Washington squabbling. I don’t know how you break through the noise — I’m not even sure a prime time address would do it.
Valdivia
@JPL:
agreed. this was one amazing speech.
@Baud:
me neither. I am totally despondent about it these days.
bago
This 27% bit is creepy.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/04/bobby-jindals-political-collapse-is-dangerous-news-for-the-national-gop.php
gratuitous
It’s an odd kind of progress, but I think it is progress that some folks who wouldn’t touch the issue of marriage equality with a 10-foot pole are feeling like they have to pontificate about it even to say they don’t know what they think.
The days when elected officials could just ignore their constituents or demagogue the issue to some precise political calculus are long gone, and we won’t be going back. That brand of bigotry, at least, has hit its pull date.
TriassicSands
A simple point, simply, but effectively stated. Of course, if a religion isn’t telling people how to run their lives, what the heck good is it?
Good for Johnson, though it is a little late in coming. I suppose if Manchin figures support could cost him a net 3 votes, he’ll continue to whine about the destruction of traditional marriage.
@Valdivia:
If Obama would just show some leadership, all the Republicans would change parties and become Democrats. I think Ruth Marcus told me that.
scav
Not sure the assumed value of the “prime time” speach is what it once was, especially on this sort of entrenched topic. Good ones (speaches) can still go viral and work around any media-enforced “fairness” post-speach commentary.
dance around in your bones
@Valdivia:
I’m in SoCal, watched it on MSNBC (which I usually have on in the afternoon, though I had to mute Mrs. Greenspan earlier during the Thatcher tribute)…..I don’t watch the local news.
It stretched over Hardball/Politics Nation and they repeat Hardball later on. Maybe they’ll repeat the speech?
I agree that a prime time speech would have been good, but he was in Connecticut with the families and town affected. I’ve heard some of the families are going to fly back with him on Air Force One to lobby lawmakers.
eta: don’t even start reading the comments on that article, the very 1st one is totally offensive.
Omnes Omnibus
@bago: At this point, I think pollsters and stat guys are just fucking with us.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@gratuitous: I’m trying to remember, did Willard get Old Testament about one-man-and-one-woman in his convention speech?
Baud
@bago:
It is creepy. I liked this paragraph:
BWHAAAAAAA!
@Valdivia:
Don’t despond. As marriage equality has shown us, it takes a long time for the dam to break, but when it does, it breaks pretty quickly.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Here’s the outlook for legislation on guns:
LINK
At my advanced age I am convinced that if there was a mass shooting in Congress the remaining members would still refuse to pass meaningful firearms legislation.
Spaghetti Lee
@Baud:
Louisiana might be Republicans’ best chance to show off their tax ideas on the state level.
That’s like showing your guests the outhouse first. My sympathies to Louisianans who have to live with this nonsense.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: speaking of slow learners, I wonder if Dianne Feinstein still thinks filibuster reform is a bad idea
Mark S.
Following that link to Jindal I came across this:
Cuba Gooding Jr Played Dr. Ben Carson In A 2009 Made-For-T.V. Movie
Has anyone ever seen it?
Baud
@Spaghetti Lee:
FTFY
Cacti
So Cole, what’s taking your buddy Rand Paul so long?
JPL
CBS evening news is covering the speech now. They highlighted the part where he said this is not about politics..
Spaghetti Lee
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
At the risk of starting a “Harry Reid is useless/no he isn’t” fight again, let me just say if I was Harry Reid, I’d say, fine, go ahead and filibuster. I’m sure the American people will love to see Ted Cruz’s stupid face on the evening news gabbering about how he loves the NRA more than keeping kids safe. In fact, I’d hope everyone in the GOP signs on. “When Democrats tried to pass background checks to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, not a single Republican senator agreed. Call your Senator and ask why they support the NRA’s agenda.”
Thatcher’s dead and I’m pumped up and itching for a fight. Let’s meet the bastards on the battlefield for once.
FlipYrWhig
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: That Richard Burr is a foul human being.
Spaghetti Lee
@Baud:
I try to maintain an amount of sympathy for people who vote Republican but don’t know any better. It can be difficult.
David Koch
Manchin proves the naderites are right, there’s no difference btwn Bush and Gore.
Chris
@Spaghetti Lee:
Well, there are different shades of “don’t know any better.” “I honestly thought they were telling the truth when they said their policies would make us all richer” is one thing. “When they said they were going to throw out all the lazy bums, useless bureaucrats and union thugs, I didn’t think they meant ME!” is another.
Valdivia
@dance around in your bones:
Thanks for the report, it makes me feel a little better!
@Baud:
trying!
bemused
It might seem sudden that SSM now has support of most Americans but it takes so damn long for real information to reach them. I blame wretched msm. Then they need even more time to process it all. Drive by news watchers have a lot of catching up to do.
JPL
@Valdivia: ABC nightly news leads with the President going all out for gun control …
Gin & Tonic
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
There was. 1954.
JPL
How quickly would a gun control bill be passed if pictures were published of the Sandy Hook massacre?
Roger Moore
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Sure. That’s because the shooter would have an (R) after his name and the victims would have (D)s. I honestly think it would take the reverse situation to have any chance of moving any reasonable legislation forward.
Yutsano
@JPL: Please. If they even belive the pics are real they’ll just dismiss them as tree of liberty being watered or some such bullshit. The gun nuts love their guns more than their children. I’m sorry but I see zero evidence to the contrary.
gene108
@bemused:
It’s not the MSM.
The people, who don’t support gay marriage are clustered in the same states, so you may have a majority of Americans supporting ‘x’, but that doesn’t mean the majority of people in Manchin’s state support SSM.
Hell, look what happened in NC last year, when SSM came up for a vote to amend the state constitution. The “urban” areas, like RTP, Charlotte, Asheville and I think Wilmington supported gay marriage, but once you got outside those cities the opposition to SSM was 80% for banning it.
The MSM isn’t responsible for that level of deliberate bigotry.
JoyfulA
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Sens. Toomey and Manchin are putting together a plan that closes the gunshow loophole and allows within-family and temporary licensed-hunter to licensed-hunter transfers.
Chris
@Roger Moore:
No. If the reverse happened, the righties would simply use it as an excuse for a massive crackdown, Palmer Raids style, on anything remotely left wing, probably in a way that would guarantee them the next election for the next decade or two, while any politician who objected would instantly be drowned in a chorus of “terrorist!” screams.
Good NRA members needn’t be concerned. Heck, they’d probably form Snatcher squads to help the feds hunt down the Undesirables. Why target guns when you can target people?
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris:
With guns.
Comrade Jake
Profile in courage, eh?
I can’t say there’s too many Senators who are much better, frankly. They’re all political calculators.
Msskwesq
You know the fight is about over on this topic when Orrin Hatch endorses civil unions that grant the same legal rights to gays as straight married people. Yep, he said that!
OzoneR
@Valdivia:
Or the networks will do what they did during the healthcare prime time speech.
Complain its disrupting their prime time schedule.
Brandon
So in the Gay Marriage Final Four, it looks like the two top seeds, Manchin and Pryor made it to the final, knocking off Landrieu and Johnson. No upsets so far.