Boston Police Commissioner, ca. 4am:
Edward Davis Edward Davis @EdDavis3
One suspect dead. One at large. Armed and dangerous. White hat suspect at large.
I’ve been listening to Channel 7/WHDH’s live feed since 11:30pm last night.
Here’s the Boston Globe:
WATERTOWN — One suspect in Monday’s Boston Marathon bombings has been apprehended, according to an official with knowledge of the investigation. Another appears to remain on the loose in Watertown after a firefight with police. A 20-block perimeter was established as authorities searched for him.
A scene of chaos descended on Cambridge and Watertown late Thursday night and early Friday morning, as police confirmed an MIT police officer was shot and killed, and an apparent carjacking led police on a frenetic chase into Watertown. Hundreds of police officers flooded Cambridge and Watertown.
A spokesman for the MBTA said that a transit officer had been shot and was in serious condition.
Witnesses in Watertown said they heard explosions. Police officers were screaming about improvised explosive devices…
The bedlam in Watertown was preceded by a spasm of violence in Kendall Sqaure, in Cambridge.
An MIT officer, who has not been identified, was shot multiple times at 10:48 p.m. Main and Vassar streets, near Building 32, better known as the renowned the Stata Center. No one else was hurt, and no arrests had been made by early Friday.
That shooting sparked a massive manhunt, which fanned out from Kendall Square over an area that had endured a tragic and tumultuous week, in the aftermath of the fatal explosions at the marathon.
Police officers and canine units swept the campus, and a big swath of Vassar Street was blocked.
The university issued an alert to students and faculty to remain inside, which was later lifted….
Things are definitely in the Fog-of-War state right now. Local tv news got a headstart on this situation, because all stations were doing “President Obama came to Mass General Hospital today to meet Marathon victims and first responders” live feeds for the 11pm broadcasts when the first police cruisers barrelled up to the emergency entrance with the dying MIT officer. Everyone’s been up all night, racing from point to point, listening to sirens and gunshots and multiple explosions — none of them normal occurances in this area of Cambridge/Watertown/Boston.
I’ll put up another thread if there are Big Developments in the next couple hours, but for the record, we live a dozen or so miles from the scene so all I know is what I hear in the media.
ETA: Classes at MIT and Harvard and Emerson have been cancelled for the day.
ETAA: Wow. All MBTA bus & subway service has been ‘suspended’. People in Watertown and the abutting communities — Newton, Waltham, Belmont, Allston/Brighton, Cambridge — are being told to ‘shelter in place’ and stay home. (It’s school vacation week, for public schools.) ‘No vehicle traffic will be permitted’ in or out of Watertown; businesses will not be permitted to open.
UPDATE, 6:50am: Channel 7 says the suspects have been identified as brothers from Chechnya, with ‘Turkish military training’, permanent residents living in Cambridge for most of the last year. The survivor (“White Hat”) is said to be 19-year-old Dzhoxhar Tsarnaev (no guarantee on the spelling, it’s past my bedtime).
ThinkProgress has a summary that matches what I’ve been hearing overnight:
The two robbed a 7/11, killed a Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) campus police officer in his car after 10 PM on Thursday night and later carjacked a Mercedes SUV. The owner of the car was held at gunpoint for 30 minutes and later released near a gas station in Cambridge. The men then led police on a chase to Watertown, where they exchanged gunfire and threw bombs out of the vehicle window at law enforcement, including one made from a pressure cooker. They stop the car in Watertown, where the first suspect got out, was shot and likely detonated an improvised explosive device (IED) strapped to his chest. The second suspect drives on and later abandons the car.
SWAT teams are going door to door in Watertown, sending residents out of their homes and searching every inch of every property.
Ryan_C
This rampage has been absolutely insane. They tried to hold up a 7/11, carjacked a Mercedes, took a hostage, were chased by police, threw bombs at the police, shot the police… if the rumors are true about who these people are, I can’t imagine why they would do all this.
Please stay safe!
MikeJ
When did the three BPD officers get injured at the Arsenal st command post?
Hill Dweller
These guys had to have help from someone in Boston. Where did they store all the weapons and bomb making material?
Thoughtcrime
raven
Damn
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Hill Dweller:
Maybe they’re locals. Maybe they’re from out of town and have been staying at a hotel or motel, using a storage locker. At this point, who knows?
? Martin
@MikeJ: Sounds like it just happened.
Hill Dweller
@Thoughtcrime: The WVBC reporter said the officers told him there were explosives everywhere.
I think they had planned to set up bombs all over the place and detonate them, killing hundreds more people.
raven
@? Martin: It’s happening now yes.
kelrian
@MikeJ: Following the live-blog over at GOS, and there’s a guy on there hooked up to the police scanner. Must’ve just happened. He said the cops on the radio sound really grim.
Sweet baby Jesus. And the watertown Twitter feed mentioned bomb searches in the neighborhood. This is NOT looking good at all.
raven
Sounds like they have frags.
raven
@kelrian: How the fuck would they know that?
Thoughtcrime
@Hill Dweller:
I think you’re right.
Hill Dweller
@kelrian: I’ve been listening to the scanner all night. I heard none of that shit.
raven
OK, Pete Williams is confirming they may have come from overseas and the military training part.
oldster
@raven:
And Pete Williams is…?
Not a hostile question, just never heard of him, so can’t assess what he contributes.
MikeJ
A little while ago more Boston PD were coming in, asked to be directed to where the 3 injured BPD were, and that’s the last I’ve heard them say about it.
Right now they’re doing ASL on the radio.
raven
@oldster: He’s an NBC reporter who has been VERY careful about what he has reported during this,.
“Pete Williams is an NBC News television correspondent based in Washington, D.C. He has covered the Justice Department and the U.S. Supreme Court since April 1993. “
? Martin
@raven: Well, piecing it together, they seem to have put names on these guys sometime in the last 1-2 days (certainly the guy who went missing from Brown, and connected to those explosives found there), so they surely would have their background. That also would explain why they think they might have gotten help from someone in Watertown area – they would know at least a bit of their acquaintances by now.
All this has only been hinted to, so monster grain of salt here.
kelrian
@oldster: He’s the Justice Dept. correspondent for NBC News.
Hopefully all that stuff about foreign training is just bullshit. I’ve been bouncing between here, Daily Kos, Twitter, and (unbelievably enough) Reddit.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@kelrian:
If the reporting is correct, they were tossing shit out of the car as the police were on their asses. Gotta make sure there isn’t unexploded ordinance on the streets, at least.
max
@raven: OK, Pete Williams is confirming they may have come from overseas and the military training part.
Well, the Brown Uni student’s name has been floating around all night (initially from the scanners). I don’t see any overseas connection or mention of military training. (The dead one’s supposed name doesn’t seem to ring any bells on Google.)
max
[‘But they do seem to have come to Boston to kill people, where ever they came from.’]
raven
@max: OK,
oldster
@raven:
Thanks.
MikeJ
@max:
The only overseas connection I expect from Brown students is Derrida. A pressure cooker is a pretty radical form of deconstruction.
Suffern ACE
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): yeah. That would explain finding stuff in bushes.
? Martin
@MikeJ: The police didn’t come up with those names just 5 hours ago. They’ve had them for a bit. The feds have certainly done a full background check on them by now.
? Martin
Sunrise in 40 minutes. That’ll change how they do things.
These guys must be fucking exhausted.
raven
Sounds like they might have one alive.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
How discernible would overseas military training be from domestic military training in this case? As someone pointed out here on Monday or Tuesday, pressure cooker bombs have been mentioned at
The Anarchists’ Cookbook OnlineFree Republic since 2006.? Martin
Anyway, I’m off to bed. Hoping to awake to a calm outcome.
raven
@? Martin: Adrenaline is a motherfucker.
Valdivia
why are the tv people talking as if they were foreign students if Sunil was born in PA?
? Martin
@raven: No. One dead, one at large.
raven
@? Martin: K
MikeJ
@? Martin:
Which makes me think it’s not the kid from Brown.
raven
Pete now saying it is NOT the missing Brown student.
tc
MSNBC just confirmed that Sunil Tripathi (the missing Brown student) is NOT the white hat bomber.
Suffern ACE
@raven: if he has wired himself with explosives, I can’t see how he is taken alive unless he gives up. He will need to strip like that guy who the detained earlier. If he won’t, they will need to kill him.
raven
Sounds like they just ambushed a cop to start this. Dead dude had explosives strapped on.
MikeJ
Of course MSNBC is also saying Cambridge is four miles from Boston and Watertown is four miles past that. They’re either high or just don’t know how to read a map.
raven
@Suffern ACE: Yea
max
MBTA officer died.
max
[‘Fuck.’]
JPL
@raven: Good! Although he is still missing, it would be devastating for any family to deal with this.
Valdivia
@tc:
ok thanks now that makes more sense.
who are these people and where did they come from???
and what’s a good site to follow along?
raven
@JPL: Yea but this is not looking good at all.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Suffern ACE:
That’s what I’m thinking. Steely Dan is in my head now.
raven
Beth Israel docs saying they have a patient who is under guard.
JPL
@raven: What time do you have to take the princess to the hospital for her surgery?
raven
@JPL:15 minutes, shit, I gotta get the dogs out.
oldster
@tc:
“MSNBC just confirmed that Sunil Tripathi (the missing Brown student) is NOT the white hat bomber.”
Hell, I just confirmed that on the other thread, using my state-of-the-art eyeball. There just wasn’t much resemblance.
(Okay, can’t rule out a lot of surgery or make-up).
MikeJ
Killed from blast injury along with gsw.
JPL
@MikeJ: Anymore news from the scanners.
NotMax
Decent listing of bombings and bombing attempts in the U.S. over the last 125 years or so.
raven
They lit a bomb and threw it at the cops.
MikeJ
@JPL: Nope, pretty quiet right now. Bus got a load of civilians out of the area. Workers from New England Sports Network turned away on their way to work. Officers on checkpoint duty told to remain in place until relieved.
max
@oldster: Hell, I just confirmed that on the other thread, using my state-of-the-art eyeball. There just wasn’t much resemblance.
There was a decent resemblance but not a great one. BU guy is quite brown, and with the other name that came up, the people coming up were very very brown. White Hat isn’t brown, and Black Hat wasn’t brown either. And the poor sod on the pavement was some other dude.
So we have no names and no trace, so no idea what the FBI is pulling this from. (I’m guessing from incoming airport traffic.)
All that said, #1 & #2 seem to be quite outstanding at terror, but moderately lousy at killing.
max
[‘Very very weird.’]
Calouste
Boston Globe is reporting that MIT has cancelled the classes for today and reporting to work is optional for the staff.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
I was expecting Third World Man.
Valdivia
So I made the mistake of getting out of bed and turning on MSNBC–they are practically salivating at the international connections and the military training. They’re just one step away from saying Bin Laden and Al Q.
ETA–this is going to be an insufferable week with the righties saying Bush Kept US Safe.
Then again how did these terrorists get all these guns eh?
beltane
@Valdivia: Whoever they are, they were able to acquire quite the arsenal.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
Nah. I’ve had this as either domestic right-wingers or whacked out, paranoid domestic free thinker types (one of the sort of which I had to cut FB ties with about 24 hours ago)- bombings happening on Patriots’ Day/Tax Day.
NotMax
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
Reaching way back to a Vietnam-era song, 21st Century Schizoid Man.
MikeJ
BTW, they don’t have him in the office complex. There’s a command post when they thought they saw somebody in the area earlier.
Cops are saying that channel 7 is saying all T suspended, but they’ve not heard anything about it.
David Koch
@Valdivia:
except for that little incident on 9/11 and that little incident known as the iraq quagmire, he kept us safe.
MikeJ
Waltham PD says someone matching the description ducked into woods when seeing cruiser.
NotMax
@Valdivia
Say what?
Have had it on for quite a while now, and it has been mentioned, maybe, three times in passing.
Each time with the careful caveat that those reports are not confirmed.
scav
@David Koch: The Beltway Sniper plus the Anthrax letters kept the beginning two years quite lively too.
MikeJ
@scav: While not succesful, the shoe and underwear bombers made permanent changes in how everybody flies. They weren’t caught through brilliant anti-terror work, they were caught because they were inept.
Xenos
@MikeJ: There are some large forested sections of Waltham. But at least he is hemmed by 128/95. No crossing that on foot and living, not during rush hour, at least.
Debbie(aussie)
@Valdivia:
And what I have been reading, they are described as ‘white/Caucasian’.
Suffern ACE
@MikeJ: these guys seem kind of dumb, too.
scav
@MikeJ: We’ll just have to hope for a better outcome after Elvis Boy — or will it be illegal to enter Post Offices dressed as The King?
Valdivia
@Debbie(aussie):
me too. they could easily be from anywhere.
Bosnian. Serbian. South East Asian.
cckids
@Debbie(aussie):
That is what the pics look like. Of course, if the “foreign, here for one year” reports are true, the “Caucasian” could be from Iran, I suppose.
Raven
Ok, at the hospital. I am at your mercy for BREAKING NEWS!
Suffern ACE
@cckids: Syria. Iran would be nuts.
bourbaki
Watertown is right next to Cambridge (west of it). Its on the same side of the river.
Alston/Brighton is across the river from Watertown
MikeJ
Beacon Park, white male, black jacket, black bag trying to flag down rides. That’s about a dozen blocks from the Arsenal Mall command post if I have the right place.
Valdivia
@Raven:
you ok? We will be revealing everything as it happens. Mostly Mikka breathlessly repeating that he suspect #1 had an IED strapped to his chest.
@cckids:
Bingo. This was my first thought yesterday, to me they actually looked Israeli, but easily Iranian too.
Keith G
@oldster:
Been a NBC reporter for, what, two decades. Covered the Pentagon before the Justice gig. Is an out gay guy (outed not by choice 10 yrs ago) FWIW. As good of an old school reporter as you are likely to find.
Raven
@NotMax: Jesus, Nov 69, Palm Beach Arts Festival . They were the house band and played that fucking song 50 times! They are making a doc about it.
http://www.oldrockphoto.com/palmbeach.html
cckids
@Suffern ACE: Well, yes. Also unlikely. But this whole “plan” has been nuts.
NotMax
Realize that even with intensive training, the heat of the moment is intense to the nth degree. Plus it was dark. But during the firefight that went on, no one shot out even one tire on the vehicles?
beltane
@Valdivia:
That’s what I thought too. The taller one also looks very Greek. The whole thing is so strange.
Raven
@Valdivia: yea, the bride is having back surgery.
Baud
@Raven:
Good luck with the Raveness today. At least you’ll have something interesting to watch in the waiting room.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Valdivia:
I thought the same thing when I first saw the pictures this afternoon.
Baud
Racially ambiguous terrorism duo!
Raven
@Baud: I dread that here in tea bag land! I think I’ll stick with ya’ll.
Mo
Harvard is shut as well. Just got the text.
I’m one town over in Arlington. Can hear the helicopters. It is an eerily foggy morning, at least here on top of the hill by the Mormon temple.
Suffern ACE
@beltane: khadafi loyalists?
Cermet
Hope that the other killer is not holding a family hostage in the Boston area; but unless the killer made it out of the area, not exactly a lot of places better to hid. Shit – I hope this does not cause a shootout and large number of deaths or injuries to a family! My thoughts are with those people in the township. I hope the bastard just gives up and no one else is harmed or killed – does not look likely.
Appears an MIT cop may have been murdered by these insane bombers. Tragic.
Of course, white dudes are the mass killers; who else would they be?
Anne Laurie
@Valdivia:
Geez, ask Rahm Emmanuel or Jeff Goldberg about where American citizens pick up ‘foreign military training’. Please goddess we don’t have to open that can of worms…
MikeJ
“They call me ‘Kevin in and out real quick Brennan'” – radio
NotMax
@raven
Dynamite album, although it (In the Court of the Crimson King) doesn’t sound right unless it is listened to in a room illuminated by a black light.
Valdivia
@Baud:
you win! :)
@beltane:
yes Greek would fit, Bulgarian too. Which is why the Baud comment is so full of win.
@BillinGlendaleCA:
can you imagine if they were? crazed religious ones? hmm.
Suffern ACE
Im thinking if a person has drugs in his or her apartment, they probably should be flushed.
Raven
@NotMax: my best memory from that festival is Johhny Winter followed by the Chambers BrosTime blasting at 4am! Janis was badass too but we split and missed the Stones!
beltane
@Anne Laurie: The Alex Jones crowd is absolutely going to run with this angle, unfortunately.
MikeJ
Guy flagging down cars in custody
Valdivia
@Anne Laurie:
it would be weird to see our media react to that story line no?
Seriously. I lived in Israel for many years and the moment I saw them I thought they could so be Israelis. But they could be anything really.
I found the whole ‘hide in Watertown’ thing interesting. Armenian community where they could blend in. Weird. That makes me lean to Greek, maybe.
Mo
Suffern ACE – pot is decriminalized in Mass.
Come for the gay marriage, stay for the weed!
MikeJ
Boston cab 3 occupants, all middle eastern, no idea why they have all out on the deck.
oldster
So we’re pretty sure that, racially speaking, their ancestors lived on a different continent for the last few centuries.
Unless they are cunningly disguised members of the Inuit Liberation Front.
(I was thinking of joining, but I just couldn’t get Inuit).
Hill Dweller
@MikeJ: It doesn’t sound like any of the cab occupants had anything on them.
NotMax
@Raven
Presumably due to the time, as that was a month before Altamont. :)
Mo
FYI – Watertown is a place where there are lots of two family houses where there is an apartment to rent. If you want to rent for cash in a multi-ethnic community, that neighborhood is one of the places to go in Boston.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Valdivia:
Remember the stereotypical “Jewish” physiognomy that we’re familiar with from Julius Streicher, et. al. is actually, in the old-fashioned anthropological terminology, called “Armenoid”.
TheMightyTrowel
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: Hey, I know it’s all speculation and people hate not knowing shit, but I just wanted to say that I am getting a bit uncomfortable with the content and direction of this discussion – racial traits from fuzzy photos is even more bogus than the phrenology that led to a lot of descriptors like ‘armenoid’.
MikeJ
You should expect a sighting of somebody suspicious looking every 5 minutes until they’re caught.
As a white guy, I’d stay inside today.
Narcissus
So is the naked guy dead? Because he seemed ok when he was naked.
MikeJ
@Narcissus: He’s not dead, just stiff.
Hill Dweller
@MikeJ: Someone came on the scanner and informed the CP the FBI was tracking on school street. But I’ve heard nothing since.
Valdivia
I am just going to say that I just hope it’s not a muslim-related group. Because the insanity that will create will be 100 times worse than after 9/11.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@TheMightyTrowel:
Sorry. Valdivia mentioned the possibility of Israelis blending in in the local Armenian community. I’m not drawing any conclusions from any fuzzy, digitally “enhanced” pictures. I’ll shut up now.
MikeJ
@Hill Dweller: The FBI has “active tracking squads” searching the original neighborhood. They’ve been calling in location so the cops don’t shoot them.
Cermet
I’ve known both Iranian (Persian) and Northern African (Arab) people and to me, these bombers look nothing like those people I knew.
cckids
Pete Williams just said the bomber’s names were on the list the FBI was looking at; they were “legal permanent residents”, possibly from Turkey or Chechnia (OK, spelling fail, too tired).
ETA: Chechnya. Also, they were not students.
TheMightyTrowel
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: Thanks. Don’t want to yell, just sometimes internet speculation goes off track without people noticing.
MikeJ
Sending dogs and crime scene chemists to 89 Nichols, where earlier reports of fresh blood.
NotMax
Wonder if the SUV had OnStar or some other service which could be used to track location?
Frankly, at this point wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that the 2nd person has already offed himself. (Which doesn’t reduce the imminent danger, as he may well have done so amidst a plethora of possibly timed explosive devices.)
Valdivia
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: @TheMightyTrowel:
I also did not mean any ‘racial’ speculation. I think that they are very ethnically ambiguous and this is probably what the group who brought them here was going for. They could pass for any of us.
TheMightyTrowel
@Valdivia: indeed. the scariest part of terrorism is that it could be your neighbour.
cckids
@Valdivia:
Yes, contrary to CNN’s assertation earlier, you cannot tell by looking if someone is American. God.
Hill Dweller
Pete Williams said the bombers are from Turkey.
Aimai
@Valdivia: yeah. We are on lockdown. We are in Cambridge.
Narcissus
@MikeJ: Hi-ohhhhhh
MikeJ
@Hill Dweller:
Interesting in that there are two Armenian churches in Watertown.
beltane
@Cermet: They do not look remotely North African to me.
oldster
Oh crap. If these kids really are foreign operatives infiltrated for this job, then Obama is going to have the oratorical challenge of his life, explaining to the nation that everybody should calm the f*ck down and not over-react.
beltane
@Hill Dweller: It would be awkward bombing another NATO member.
JGabriel
cckids:
Or Chechnya, or Pakistan, or North India, or Afghanistan, or Europe, or N. Africa, the Uighur from W/NW China, etc.
There are some caucasian looking people in all those regions.
MikeJ
Cops told to wear coats black side out, no florescent orange showing.
TheMightyTrowel
Grain of salt: Local news just said AP said FBI said they’re from Chechnya and have been in the US for the last year.
beltane
@MikeJ: Kurds? Something to do with Iraq?
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
NBC is reporting they’re Chechens who had been living in Turkey but have been legal permanent residents here for a year. Grain of salt, usw.
ETA: Slow fingers.
TheMightyTrowel
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: Much salt! So much salt!
(I’m working on a lecture on the bronze age right now and looking at slides of prehistoric salt mines and salt processing sites/material. SO MUCH SALT)
(ETA: it’s nearly 9pm where I am and I’m still at work. a bit punchy.)
beltane
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: So we now have to suffer the blowback from Russia’s actions? Lovely.
Hill Dweller
They’re brothers.
oldster
Legal permanent residents revealed to be terrorists.
That is such a wet-dream for the anti-immigration hard-liners, that I think this must be a false-flag operation run by Jan Brewer and Sheriff Arpaio. And scripted by Steven Segal.
cckids
Oy. I never watch Morning Joe, and now I know why. How is Mika B. employed? “this guy needs to go down. What he’s done to our country, to the city of Boston, to POLICE OFFICERS”. I realize it can be hard to fill time, but do they not do any prep at all? They just get up there & let fly?
I usually just watch Rachael & Chris, so the vast difference is jarring.
p.a.
Local news only say: from the Russia area, in the US about a year.
cckids
@oldster: Oh, yeah. I cringe in advance at the outpouring of hate & ignorance that is about to be unleashed.
Narcissus
@Hill Dweller: So the still living brother probably is a bit pissed.
BillinGlendaleCA
@cckids: She may be off her meds.
beltane
@oldster: They’re not Mexican and they’re not really brown. I don’t see how an electrified border fence would stop this type of thing.
Cermet
@beltane: That is also what I said. So, we agree on that.
cckids
@BillinGlendaleCA: Permanantly? Or is she ever any better? I only see the clips that get posted showing her being egregiously dim.
Hill Dweller
Nineteen and Twenty year old brothers. The nineteen year old is the one on the run. He is a resident of Cambridge, and has a Massachusetts driver’s license.
Raven
@NotMax: it was a great lineup but miserable weather. We thumbed from Illinois and had just had enough. I’d only been out of the tropics for a couple of months and still hadn’t acclimated
NotMax
@TheMightyTrowel
Not even close to prehistoric, but the carvings, sculptures, etc. in this Polish salt mine are incredible. Everything – walls, floors, even the chandeliers – carved from salt.
oldster
@beltane:
I only wish that sort of rational thinking would have any effect on the people in question.
If they’re Chechens then they’re pretty much Muslims and if so then they’re basically brown, and if brown then essentially Mexicans. We must build a fence!
Narcissus
I like the tasteful “Dead” and “Wanted” stamp Morning Joe is using for the “mugshots”.
beltane
@Cermet: They’re Chechens.
cckids
I’m getting a little punchy from lack of sleep, but listening to the Morning Joe people trying to pronounce/spell the name is making me laugh. It is typical Eastern European, with too few vowels to seem real.
Raven
@cckids: which part do you disagree with?
cckids
@Narcissus: Wasn’t that special? Someone must have realized how tacky it was, it didn’t last long at all.
JGabriel
TheMightyTrowel:
Anything’s possible I suppose, but you’d think Chechens would be way more interested in bombing Moscow or St. Petersburg or Nizhny Novgorod instead of Boston.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
Pete Williams spelling out their name—if I heard it correctly—”Tsanadze”, which looks Georgian, but the guy still loose is named “Dzhokar”
Hill Dweller
Matt Lauer flew out to Texas so he could milk the fertilizer plant explosion, but those damned terrorists are stepping on his story.
cckids
@Raven: It is more the breathless, melodramatic delivery. It is a tragic, godawful situation, and she seems to be bringing the emotional maturity of a 11-year old princess to it.
beltane
@Hill Dweller: So these are young men who grew up in one of the nastiest war zones imaginable, very easy to radicalize. I wonder if their parents are alive.
Raven
@cckids: that I
Totally agree with!
Raven
@cckids: that I
Totally agree with!
NotMax
No morning dog walking in Watertown today.
Raven
@JGabriel: um, they are most likely Sunni
zach
Assuming the name thrown out on MSNBC is correct, the guy that’s at large graduated high school in Cambridge in 2011. Won a scholarship… weird that MSNBC didn’t figure this out before reporting that they’re recent immigrants since it’s the first Google hit for the name.
Hill Dweller
@cckids:
The Today Show didn’t get the memo.
Raven
Bout time for a fracking post.
NotMax
@cckids
Also too, kind of ironic that someone named Brzezinski has such difficulty pronouncing names.
BillinGlendaleCA
@zach: They’re still trying to figure out how to use Google Maps.
Annamal
Chechens???
So did not see that coming.
Would have picked weird IRA stuff before Chechens…
cckids
@Hill Dweller: Yeah, it is back up on MSNBC as well. Yikes.
Valdivia
@zach:
if they are this young, and they had been living in Turkey before then the Chechnya past is way way back. So, what the hell was this all about?
ETA: for someone who has been in the US for only a year to ALREADY be permanent resident they have to refugees. Or the green card lottery. Take it from someone who has dealt with immigration for a long time.
Raven
@Valdivia: wouldn’t have anything to do with religion now would it?
Valdivia
@Raven:
so this is their version of muslim holy war? someone trained them, so young? or they just did it on their own?
men if this is what the new terrorists are going to look like–trained teenagers—man, we are in for an ugly ugly time.
can’t wait to see what the wingnut brigade comes up with after this.
TheMightyTrowel
@Valdivia: Clearly we need to fence all the high schools and treat young people like criminals.
Oh. Wait.
Elizabelle
Chechens. Wow. And a dead MIT cop. How sad.
This bizarre week continues.
MikeJ
About to detonate a device at Charlesgate, abnout 5 blocks from Fenway?
beltane
Social media page for someone with the same name and birthday:http://vk.com/id160300242
He looks very much like a young Bob Dylan.
Valdivia
@beltane:
the videos linked do seem to be political.
beltane
@Valdivia: If the suspect went to high school here we will be hearing a lot about him.
NotMax
Some walking back as to length of residence and area of origin now going on.
Raven
@Valdivia: I’m not sure they are all that young. They certainly look like they could be in their 20’s.
Valdivia
@beltane:
I am sure. The whole story seems just incredible to me. If he is 19 he must have gotten his ‘military training’ per the NBC info very young and before he came here. So he and his brother were sleepers?
And it’s important to keep an eye on the immigration angle—if they have been here only a couple of years that green card or permanent legal status is from being a refugee or from the lottery. You don’t come here and automatically get that otherwise.
beltane
@Raven: White hat’s birthday on his driver’s licence is 7/22/1993.
Raven
@Valdivia: I came home from Vietnam 2 months before my 20 th and spent 2 years in “combat zones”.
Valdivia
@Raven:
in that case it would make much more sense. because a 19 year old who was trained when he was 15 and sent here via Turkey to be a sleeper. Weird.
But I see they are walking the story back now.
oldster
@beltane:
Now *that* is the kid. That is white hat, and that’s the robber in the gas station. Same face, just a little older.
wuzzat
@Raven: Local news is reporting that the one who is on the run is 19 and the dead suspect was 20.
JGabriel
@Raven:
Yes, I know. But the Chechens major historical beef is still with Russia.
NotMax
At least those who initially were yelling for more, more, more CCTV cameras seem to have been shut up in the face of gazillions of bytes of visual data.
Valdivia
@Raven:
I know 20 year olds are soldiers. but if he is 20 now he must have been trained (if he was sent here mind you) when he was much younger, like 15-16?
anyway–here is a link to pics of what seems to be the dead brother.
http://johanneshirn.photoshelter.com/gallery/-/G0000VQW7v6xWA7o/
Raven
@JGabriel: I’m just guessing.
Keith G
So it seems Susan Collins may have gotten this one right.
beltane
@Valdivia: The Chechnya war was so incredibly nasty, with civilians brutalized on a constant basis, that it’s not hard to imagine child soldiers being the norm.
NotMax
@Keith G
Still an open question as to whether they are/were of Chechen or Russian heritage.
BobS
MSNBC reporting Dunkin’ Donuts the only area business that’s remained open.
someguy
That these guys could get guns and go on a killing spree makes a pretty good case for gun control. Hopefully Harry Reid is smart enough to make the point that getting guns off the street is a national security issue. Phrase it that way and he can get to the right of Rubio and the other whackos in the senate. Probably no hope in the House, but maybe Peter King can be convinced to lead a national security faction across party lines.
beltane
@Keith G: There could still be an element of nihilistic killing spree for the sake of killing going on here. If the conspiracy consisted of no one but the two brothers it will be hard to tell.
oldster
@Valdivia:
Wow–and that’s black hat. Tamerlan–a common name in that part of the world, after the conqueror.
And the quotes attached to those jpg.s show a sexually-repressed religious fanatic.
Perfect. In that regard, he sounds just like the Saudis from 9/11–when unrealistic puritanical morals come into conflict with modern American morals, their heads explode.
Raven
Larry Eugene Phillips Jr (born September 20, 1970 and standing at 6’4″) and Emil Decebal Mătăsăreanu (born July 19, 1966 in Romania and standing at 6’2″) first met at a Gold’s Gym in Venice, Los Angeles, California in 1989. They had a mutual interest in weightlifting and bodybuilding.[8]
This is the LA in 1997.
Valdivia
@beltane:
it just breaks one’s heart. and I can see why–if they are indeed from there–they may have come here as refugees too.
I know more about child soldiers from the drug war and war in Colombia where they recruit them at ages of 10. To think of that coming here and doing this? Sends a chill down my spine.
I am sounding like a broken record but I really would like the reporters to nail down the exact status of these guys because this is no ‘regular’ immigration story to be a permanent resident like that so fast. ETA: @oldster: after reading those tags it seems they have been here 5 years, that makes more sense but means the younger one came here at age 14.
NotMax
@BobS
As Fred the Baker said again and again, “Time to make the donuts.”
max
Dzhokhar is a Chechnyan name, but Tsarnaev isn’t, really.
A map of various ethnic groups in the Caucasus: http://www.freelang.net/families/maps/caucasus-ethnic-plurality.png.
I’m up six hours past my bedtime – Ok, actually, I went to be 8 hours ago and couldn’t sleep for some reason, and stumbled into this.
max
[‘These guys were not very professional – crazy yes, professional, no.’]
CaliCat
Mika is completely unwatchable. Calm down, idiot, and report the news. And why did CNN’s Jake Tapper bring his boyfriend to work with him?
MikeJ
@NotMax:
the social media page linked above says he speaks Нохчийн мотт, Chechen language.
School: Cambridge Ringe & Latin School ’11
oldster
@Raven:
Sorry–what are you quoting from?
Comrade Jake
Russians? WOLVERINES!!!
Face
Immigration bill is DOA at this point.
Joseph Nobles
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has a brother, Tamerlan. I found this out from Twitter. Here’s a photo album I found of him from Twitter as well.
http://johanneshirn.photoshelter.com/gallery/-/G0000VQW7v6xWA7o/
Compare to pictures of Suspect #1.
ETA: Valdivia got here first.
NotMax
@Valdivia
Given time, they will. Records offices not yet open on East coast. Confirming and corroborating data is not a push-button process.
JoyfulA
According to Nexis via Twitter, family by that name has lived at the Cambridge address since 2002.
Raven
@oldster: sorry, the insane shoot out in North Hollywood in 97. When I saw the pics of the dude in the gym it rang that bell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Raven
@Joseph Nobles: that’s the one
Valdivia
If they have been here for five years or more this is more like a mix of homegrown terrorism with muslim overtones a la London no? It’s not that they came here to kill. They moved here, made themselves a life, something went wrong and then this.
ETA: @JoyfulA: 11 years. that aligns with the homegrown thing. something going wrong not that they came here on a mission 11 years ago.
Comrade Jake
@someguy:
In a sane world, yes. In the world we live in, people are tweeting how much safer the residents of Watertown feel owning GUNS!
MikeJ
BTW, that HS he went to is the same one Ben Affleck and Matt Damon went to.
NotMax
@MikeJ
While it may be the same person, and also may or may not be a page he actually created, we have no way to ascertain that as yet. Circumstantial evidence, at best.
beltane
@Valdivia: I wonder if they came here as orphans. It is also possible that they became attracted to radical views while living in the US for the same reasons native born Americans become attracted to various radical movements. Being that they were immigrants and Muslims meant that certain types of crazy were off limits to them while other ones, ones that made them feel connected to home, beckoned.
lojasmo
@raven:
Good luck.
Hill Dweller
Pete Williams said they’ve been in the US for 11 years. The younger one is 19 and the dead one is 26.
When Dzhokhar, the one on the run, was making his get away in the SUV, he ran over his brother.
oldster
@Raven:
Got it. Yeah, there are some similarities.
I say we lock up every guy who has ever been a gym-member.
We are going to learn a lot more, but right now this could equally be a “sleeper-cell sent here to kill and in constant contact with their overseas masters”, or it could be a “couple of immigrant kids get lost in America, lose their minds over sex, turn to fundamentalist religion, and go all Columbine”.
But, yeah: immigration bill DOA, either way. The crazies will crazy, and much louder than the rationals will rational.
BobS
@Comrade Jake: If a desperate killer is on the loose in my neighborhood, I’d feel safer with a loaded shotgun.
Raven
@lojasmo: they began sedation after some fucking asshole medical person made a snarky comment about the FDR book she was reading. Since they were about to wheel her away I bit my tounge.
Randy P
Does anyone have any info on just where and when the shit started hitting the fan? I heard a report that the dead MIT campus cop was responding to “a disturbance”. Anyone know anything about that?
Just woke up to all this a couple of hours ago and catching up
Raven
@Randy P: 7-11 holdup and car jack
beltane
@Valdivia: A Columbine committed by Muslim immigrants. It would seem weird for a kid who has been planning for martyrdom to work for a college scholarship. Something went wrong, recently.
Valdivia
@Hill Dweller:
thanks for the update.
To me this totally sounds like the London bombings now. granted not second generation immigrants but the radicalization of the younger ones after not fitting in.
@beltane: yes exactly. though maybe they came with their parents.
@beltane: yes that’s even a better description. hope they frame it that way. because the whole escape thing last night was not a ‘military planned thing’ but desperation with fire power and arsenal of guns and bombs.
so the military training was from here?
beltane
@Randy P: 10:40 pm EDT. People were here complaining about bellybutton lint and the like when news of the MIT shooting broke.
NotMax
Psychotic break occurrences, sometimes called schizophrenic break, peak in males between 18 and 25, following a period of precursor behavior/experiences.
Just sayin’.
Just now, reported area of origin as Kyrgyztan; elder brother 26 years old, born in Russia.
Betty Cracker
Everyone in the affected area, please stay safe!
MikeJ
@NotMax: I would hope that somebody at the embassy in Moscow is asking for help catching chechen terrorists and getting info out vk.com. If he logged in from a smart phone they could start looking for it. His last login (if that is him) was 6:05 pm yesterday.
beltane
@oldster: Young men are inherently dangerous and are responsible for the vast majority of violent crimes. Lock ’em all up, I say.
Comrade Jake
Apparently today is the first day of Harvard’s admitted student weekend. Harvard is currently closed. Lots of admitted students congregating at Logan… just crazy.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Randy P: What I’m hearing about the MIT cop is that he was sitting in his car when they walked up and shot him. I keep seeing the cops at Murtaugh’s house in Lethal Weapon.
TheMightyTrowel
@beltane: “When a child turns 12, he should be kept in a barrel and fed through the bung hole, until he reaches 16 … at which time you plug the bung hole”
Mark Twain
arguingwithsignposts
Well, now that one’s dead and the other is likely to be soon, the authorities are probably going to have a shitload of material (papers, computers, contacts, etc.) to sift through and figure out what happened. But it ain’t going to happen today.
My hope is that they catch the second one alive, so they have the possibility of getting some first-person information, instead of the usual second-hand stuff.
NotMax
@MikeJ
Newest report was not Chechnya, rather Kyrgyztan.
Nina
Suspect’s name looks like it’s pronounced something close to ‘Joker’.
Just what we need, more Batman references.
Raven
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: like the LA dude a while back.
JGabriel
@NotMax:
I agree. I think we ought to hold off on speculating about their experiences and motives when we haven’t even confirmed exactly who they are yet.
.
Valdivia
If this assholes say these were terrorists sent here to kill us one more time I am going to kick the tv.
They have been in the US for TEN years. They are disaffected youths who happened to be muslim. This wasn’t an international terrorist attack right?
lojasmo
@Valdivia:
Gladly, we have a sane administration.
Kay
I’m taking off but there’s a new thread if you need one.
MikeJ
College-age woman who lived in apartment next door to suspects giving interviews: “I’ve never seen that guy.”
by Wesley Lowery via twitter
Camera operators say officers dragging a handcuffed woman out of suspects’ apartment
by Wesley Lowery via twitter
Hill Dweller
NPR is saying a third man has been arrested. They’re calling him an accomplice.
Comrade Jake
Fox is reporting the kids were trained by Saddam Hussein, and Doocy is pointing out that this would not have happened if Romney had been elected.
socraticsilence
Wait, this guy was on Mass Wrestling rosters back in 2008- if that’s the case he came over at like 14, also 5 years as a sleeper is crazy considering its not like they infiltrated anything.
Valdivia
@MikeJ:
the older one had a girlfriend who boxed with him she was half portuguese and very blonde. See pictures at photo album I linked above.
TheMightyTrowel
@Comrade Jake: I want to laugh at this and say maybe it’s the onion, but i totally believe Fox would say this. It makes me despair.
Valdivia
@Comrade Jake:
you are joking right?
arguingwithsignposts
@Valdivia:
I’m having a hard time imagining 100 times worse than two wars, torture, and the TSA and all that stuff. But I’m sure Pam Gellar is working hard on that.
BobS
@Comrade Jake: Thanks for watching Fox so that we don’t have to.
NotMax
Now saying family arrived in U.S. in 2002 or 2003.
Valdivia
@arguingwithsignposts:
they are already on it.
Todd
I hate Barbara whatshername on CNN. Lots of breathless speculation.
lojasmo
@Raven:
Where the hell do you live? Totally unprofessional. What a dick.
She’s gonna be fine. Microdiscectomy is pretty simple stuff.
I had a herniated disc. Shit is rotten. She’ll be pain free soon!
gene108
@Valdivia:
And very attractive.
I don’t know, maybe she dumped him and he couldn’t cope and went off the deep end.
I’ll wait for more info before speculating further.
PurpleGirl
Raven — If you are still reading here: I’m sure your Bride will be fine. And pain free. Since her problem started (sort of) recently, surgery works really well. My hemilaminectomy was done in 1993 and was small compared to one’s done years before, and probably was large compared to today’s techniques. My surgery was within 8 months of the pain starting. I have my fingers crossed for her.