I’ll be pretty excited if Elizabeth Colbert Busch pulls this one out:
PPP’s newest poll on the special election in South Carolina finds Democrat Elizabeth Colbert Busch expanding her lead to 9 points over Mark Sanford at 50/41. Green Party candidate Eugene Platt polls at 3%.
Paul in KY
Hoping the Green Party candidate doesn’t pull a Nader here.
Would be interesting to see who is funding him.
Go Elizabeth!
nellcote
Green Party at 3% seems pretty impressive for SC.
Comrade Jake
Huh. Maybe SC isn’t so full of crazy rednecks after all.
Spaghetti Lee
Leading by 9? Wow. From what I’ve heard from people in the area though, Charleston isn’t quite the craziest part of SC.
ranchandsyrup
related: Jenny Sanford’s favorability drops after exposing the trespassing. Sanfords favorability with GOP goes up after trespassing. Seems right for SC.
Yutsano
Polling is still too early to hope, but if Marky Mark keeps up messing up this could indeed happen. And I can’t help but wonder how much of this is the JEB! Effect, as in having a brown lover.
Ben Franklin
Here comes the sun. Bump..
low-tech cyclist
@nellcote:
Probably boosted by all the publicity the Appalachian Trail is getting down there these days. :-)
ChrisNYC
Colbert campaign comment on Sanford ad re his “rough week”:
“Only in Mark Sanford’s narcissistic world would this rough week be all about him and not the people of Boston or Texas,” Sosanie said in a statement, according to USA Today.
BAM!
Trollhattan
@nellcote:
Because it’s SC I’m willing to declare half that 3% is folks misreading it as “Greed” Party.
Maude
@Paul in KY:
My first thought.
J.
It’s the Colbert bump! Hey, if Stephen can’t be President, the least South Carolina can do is elect Elizabeth to Congress. (Also, too, Congress could use more Busch.)
Cassidy
@Paul in KY: Never discount the ability of the pure to cut of their own nose to spite the rest of us.
PeterJ
I’m so looking forward to better know South Carolina’s 1st district :D
Morzer
My guess is that the good people in Saath Cahlina see Busch and think “Free beer”, see Sanford and think “Foreign jezebels stealin’ our ‘Murikan men!”
Or maybe they just think that Sanford is a horny toad with the face of a constipated groundhog.
Violet
@ChrisNYC: Nice. I’m so excited about this campaign. Mark Sanford seems like such a loser to me. I hope the people of SC see that too.
Alex S.
@ChrisNYC:
Sanford’s mind is in a world of his own. I’m surprised he made it this far.
Spaghetti Lee
I don’t watch TCR: Is Stephen talking about this much or is it kind of hands off?
themann1086
@ranchandsyrup: That was only amongst Republicans, but I caught that too. The details:
Elizabelle
Anybody from DC area or points south interested in doing some GOTV for Colbert Busch?
I am so tempted to head down there for a few days of GOTV door to door canvassing, or whatever they need.
Maybe campaign has supporter housing — they often do.
David Koch
This is Great News for McCain!
wake up Halperin — losing a +7 gop district by 9 points proves we’re a center-right country!
Morzer
@themann1086:
I thought it might happen once Sanford claimed to be watching the Superbowl with his boy. That’s guaranteed to appeal to the redneck males who think uppity women shouldn’t be keeping a man and his son apart, even if said man is a sorry example of the species.
Tim I
What the f**k is the Green Party up to? They seem to be more motivated by ego than policy.
I hope their candidate will drop out and throw his support to Busch. This election is too important to screw up with a vanity candidate.
Morzer
@Elizabelle:
Well, you could always try Jenny Sanford. She’s got some space available.
Violet
@Spaghetti Lee: He has mentioned it a couple of times, but isn’t talking about it every night. He’s supporting his sister.
ranchandsyrup
@themann1086: thanks for clarifying. Good catch!
Elizabelle
@Morzer:
I’ll take my cellphone flashlight.
Cassidy
@Tim I: Pshaw. Take your pragmatism and your “winning elections” and stuff it. Only real liberals stand and lose on principal.
Just Some Fuckhead
Can we be completely sure Stephen Colbert hasn’t ever made any jokes at Obama’s expense? I wanna support Elizabeth Colbert Busch but you know how notoriously fickle those national comedians can be. And Obama requires 100% purity of support.
Paul in KY
@Maude: Someone had to say it ;-)
Violet
@Morzer: Women will sympathize with her, though. Cheating ex-husband violates court orders and just shows up at your house whenever he wants. That kind of thing doesn’t win you a lot of female fans.
themann1086
@Tim I: Yeah, the Green Party is an embarrassment. Fun fact: the support for their candidate by ideology goes, from very liberal to very conservative, 1/2/1/6/7%. The partisan numbers are similar: 1% of Democrats vs 4% of Republicans and 7% of “independents”. Go figure.
kc
@Morzer:
Nah, they just see the “R” after Sanford’s name, and that’s all they need.
Yutsano
@Tim I: Purity Uber Alles seems to be more about installing Republicans than anything else.
kc
@themann1086:
This being South Carolina, ECB is being subjected to TV interviews in which the “reporter” asks her accusingly if it’s true her campaign took donations from dirty filthy unions.
aimai
@Morzer:
I guess its not so manly when you aren’t so busy with your own friends in front of your own big screen tv. Maybe he lost points going over to her house?
? Martin
@Tim I:
The alternative is that the Greens throw themselves in as an internal faction of Democrats, much as the American Independent and other paleoconservative groups have done with the GOP (via the Tea Party).
3% in a general election does a lot less harm than 6% in a primary, which due to much lower voter turnout turns into 40%. I’ll keep them outside the party, thank you very much.
The Tea Party hijacking of primary candidates is what’s led to this constant stream of dick-stepping-on by the GOP.
aimai
And can someone tell me why I’m getting advertisements telling me that I can “Get Into Canada with a DUI.” Is this a thing that a lot of people really want to do? I’m not a teetotaler but I don’t think that everyone needs to have a DUI if they want to visit Canada. Is this some kind of NannyState thing? Are they giving DUI’s to everyone?
Tom Q
It’d obviously be cool for Colbert-Busch to put Sanford out to pasture. But, realistically, even if that were to happen, it’d be a one-off: the GOP would nominate someone without Sanford’s unique baggage in 2014 and probably take back the seat.
Morzer
@Violet:
Sure, but in a way it might not change that much, since women (being apparently the smarter gender!) tend to be Democratic voters in the first place.
Paul in KY
@Cassidy: Right on, Cassidy. The purity fairies have messed up several should-have-been sure things.
themann1086
@Tom Q: Probably, but never underestimate the power of incumbency!
kc
Mark Sanford is much like Sarah Palin in the way he keeps casting himself as a victim: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/04/22/mark-sanford-campaign-south-carolina-ad/2103295/
Cacti
@? Martin:
Agreed.
Throwing in with the Greens means we end up with our own Christine O’Donnells and Sharon Angles, in otherwise winnable election races.
Paul in KY
@Morzer: Looks like she would put you up & probably fund the outreach as well!
Violet
@Morzer: True, but Republican-leaning women who might have been willing to give Sanford a second chance may well think twice after this incident. He clearly hasn’t changed. What else is he lying about?
@Tom Q: Maybe. But if she does good constituent services, she might end up keeping her seat.
Paul in KY
@Tom Q: Probably true, but I’ll certainly celebrate if she wins the race.
She’ll then have 2 years to show her district that she is no hat & all cattle.
Higgs Boson's Mate
“Hiking the Appalachian Trail” was code for banging on his mistress. I wonder what “watching the Super Bowl” stands for.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Jacking off in Jenny’s underwear drawer.
Suffern ACE
Maybe if all of the liberals suddenly said that they hated this candidate and it would cause us great pain if she won she would see her share go up by 25 more points.
the Conster
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Eeeeeeeewwwww.
Smiling Mortician
@aimai: I think that’s about Canada turning back Americans at the border if they have a DUI on their record. Maybe someone is offering a record-cleanup service or something.
Todd
@Paul in KY:
I think I’ll find a random vegan, peacemarching hippy to kick right in the nutsack if the Green pulls a Nader.
LanceThruster
OT – CNN Breaking News Update
Two men arrested and charged Monday were part of an al Qaeda-supported plot to derail a passenger train, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police said.
The suspects, Chiheb Esseghaier and Raed Jaser, are accused of conspiring to kill people on a VIA train, police said. Officials said that the suspects had the capacity to carry out an attack but that the public was never in imminent danger.
The two men were receiving support “in the form of direction and guidance” from al Qaeda elements in Iran, police said. They are not Canadian citizens.
—
Jeez-Louise
I guess we’ll be getting our Iran war on soon.
Todd
@aimai:
Its actually a serious issue. We share NCIC data with the Canucks, who are positively spastic over DUIs, and bar entry to those who’ve had a conviction in the last 10 years. There’s no dealing with it if it is less than 5 years old, but there are some waivers available if it is between 5 and 10 years old.
It also applies at airports, even if all you’re doing is connecting an international flight without exiting into Canada.
Anne Laurie
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
This being Mark Sanford, I still think he was trying to retrieve his “secret” porn stash.
Which Jenny knew about.
And gleefully destroyed ten minutes after the “Appalachian Trail” story broke…
Suffern ACE
@LanceThruster: Well no. Those al Quaeda in Iran types are the guys who we will be looking to to fight on side if we were to invade. Yeah. Good times.
LanceThruster
@Suffern ACE:
Where do I get an Official Program so I can tell who’s who?
LanceThruster
@Todd:
That actually seems a sensible way to get people to “drink responsibly” or at least not “import” those who don’t.
taylormattd
Fuckin’ Green Party.
Todd
@LanceThruster:
Last night, I was at an event with my mom and dad. One of the musicians at the even is an old friend of my dad, and like all of the men his age, was full of the wisdom imparted by Fox News.
He was adamant that the speed at which the Boston Bombers got caught indicated that technology rules the world, cameras are everywhere, and that Obama is taking our freedom by creating a surveillance state.
sigh
If Obama pissed unlimited high octane gasoline and crapped the highest grade of sweet light crude, they’d bitch about how he singlehandedly destroyed the energy investments of Textard kajillionaires.
grandpa john
3sone small nit to pick on this thread. Surely most of you should realize that this is a congressional race within one district in SC. so as a resident of SC you should realize that what happens in that one district does not represent the entire state and our political opinions. If the national party would take the time and spend some effort SC and other southern red states would be within reach. Obama got 44% last election,Southern red states have some of the highest rates of growth of latino’s in nation. but it ain’t gonna change as long as the party elite and others do nothing but bad mouth all of us here in the south as red necks and scum. At least 44% of us are not. so why not some help to convert another 6% to our way of thinking?
LanceThruster
@Todd:
I always thought my dad was sensibly liberal, but his new missus is sadly a FAUXtard (he’s an 80+ year old widower), and he forwards me her foolishness.
Just like in the ’60’s with almost any protest movement…it’s always about the chicks.
xD
Jay in Oregon
@Todd:
And of course if the suspects had escaped it would be ZOMG 9/11 BENGHAZI WHARRRGARBL all day, every day.
tybee
@grandpa john:
well, some of us ARE red neck and scum.
geg6
@Cacti:
Yeah, I’m not an American Green Party fan. I like a lot of what I hear about the European Green parties, but I haven’t given a shit about American Greens since about November 2000. And I never will now.
Trollhattan
@LanceThruster:
Is that some kind of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” deals? IIRC historically, Iran wanted nothing whatsoever to do with al Qaeda. Is this one of the many flowers we continue to harvest from Iraq?
ruemara
@Tom Q: So? Win. Now. Fret about the next election, later.
Edited to add, ugh. go away Greens.
geg6
@Smiling Mortician:
But they don’t do that, do they? I mean, I know people who have gotten DUIs and who go to Niagara Falls four or five times a year. What does one have to do with the other?
Spaghetti Lee
Next time someone here bitches about ‘hippie-punching’ or how the Democratic party is hostile to its left wing, I’ll remember this thread. Swear to god, some of you hate the Greens more than the fucking Republicans.
Violet
@geg6: Sounds like they eased the restrictions a year ago or so. Now the Canadians will let someone with one DUI into the country, but not someone who is more of a criminal with several DUIs or more arrests for other things. Prior to that they were very strict.
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
@Trollhattan:
I too am suspicious about the “al-Qa’ida in Iran” bit. I mean: the thoroughly Sunni al-Qa’ida, in Shi’ite-ruled Iran? Come on, man.
Todd
@geg6:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/inadmissibility/index.asp
Issuance of that temporary resident permit is completely discretionary to the examining officer.
Chyron HR
@Spaghetti Lee:
But Republicans love the Green party. That’s kind of the point.
LanceThruster
@Trollhattan:
It’s gotten to the point where I’m suspicious of everyone but you and me…and I’m not so sure about me.
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
But, but, but…why on earth would we ever be lied to?
[sigh]
You make very good points.
Cris (without an H)
@Spaghetti Lee: We’re definitely united against the common enemy: the Judean People’s Front.
Trollhattan
@LanceThruster:
I see and raise you one quatloo in the who-to-trust-least competition. I know lots of folks who will insist it is I who cannot be trusted, some even from outside my family.
Ben
@Chyron HR:
Not to mention Greens hate the Democrats more than they do Republicans…
Mandalay
@Tim I:
And what exactly would you suggest that the Democrats should tell the Green Party to persuade them that it would be in the in the interests of of the Green Party to drop out?
Be very specific.
Mandalay
@Ben:
What is the evidence for your claim?
Cris (without an H)
Tell them Democrats won’t like them anymore!
aimai
@Smiling Mortician:
Whoops. You’d think someone named Smiling Mortician might recognize snark when they see it. But maybe you really are a Smiling Mortician?
Todd
@Mandalay:
That the Greens are a bunch of stupid fuckers who are too historically ignorant to realize that Bolshevism only worked once in delegitimizing and destabilizing a center left movement?
Mandalay
@ranchandsyrup:
I doubt that she gives a flying fuck about her favorability, and she could kill Sanford’s candidacy at any time with a few well chosen words. She could, but she doesn’t.
National Review gave a very plausible explanation for why she decided to get heavy and go public about Sanford entering her home:
In other words, payback. But Sanford’s worst enemy is not his ex-wife; it’s his own cluelessness about the feelings of other people.
ruemara
@Spaghetti Lee: Um, Green Party supporter here. First high level win, I donated and pushed for that candidate. But they have done nothing ever since. Nothing. At this point, all I want is a win that’s at least on the path back to good. The Green Party isn’t bringing it. If they were focused on local elections, they’d be more effective.
Mandalay
@Todd:
So you think that argument would persuade the Greens to drop out of the race?
You guys spout about what a bunch of jerkoffs the Greens are, and how the Greens should drop out of the race, but when it comes to explaining to the Greens why they should drop out of the race you’ve got nothing.
Baud
@Spaghetti Lee:
When did the Green Party become the left wing of the Democratic Party? Aren’t they a completely separate political party?
As far as hippie-punching goes, the hippies punched first.
Todd
@Mandalay:
They are jerkoffs. And no, they’re not getting their unicorns, nor are they going to get the Democratic candidate to come out in favor of revolutionary tribunals so that each man, woman and child in the district can be judged politically after the period of dialectic conflict concludes…
kc
It’s South Carolina, people. If the goddamn Green candidate is getting 3%, the poll is probably fucked up anyway.
Mandalay
@Baud:
Yes. Which is why it is so strange to see comments on this thread suggesting that the Green Party should do whatever suits the Democrats.
Baud
@Mandalay:
I actually agree with you. We don’t have to like the Greens, but they can do what they want.
themann1086
@Spaghetti Lee: The Green Party is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Republican party, at least in my state. If they really wanted to do good, they’d focus on winning city council seats in Philly, since they probably could beat the GOP for minority seats within a few cycles.
aimai
@Mandalay:
Well, they are a completely separate party but they need to pull votes from the exact same pool of voters that the Democrats do. They can either try to pull Republican all the way off the dark side or work more closely with the party of the lesser of two evils, but in the absence of a parliarmentary system in which they might possibly get some power through vote trading and proportional seating they are simply shit out of luck, qua party, whoever they align themselves with because 3 percent is not sufficient to have any kind of voice or program.
Cris (without an H)
“Green Party” is nearly as efficient an auto-trolling string as “Apple.”
Mandalay
@aimai: I think a big part of the problem is their name: the Green Party. The average voter assumes that they are just a bunch of DFHs pushing veganism and wind farms.
Perhaps if they rebranded themselves with a more generic name then people might take a fresh look. The Democrats are far more closely aligned to the Republicans than they are with the Green Party, but that is not the perception of the public.
Trollhattan
@Mandalay:
Clearly, the next chapter in the Saga du Sanford needs to be the older boy having an
affairhike with the hawt Argentinian girlfriend. Also, too, “Bolton”? This is revengable in its own right, whether Michael- or John-inspired.The Moar You Know
Green Party in it to turn the entire country red if they can, I see.
Hope she can pull it off.
Another Halocene Human
@Spaghetti Lee: Charleston thinks of itself as the cultural capitol of the South AND thinks it’s liberal. Of course, one would be quickly disabused of this notion after visiting ANY OTHER SOUTHEASTERN STATE but you know, South Carolina.
Plus, they don’t usually rank 50th of the 50 states because Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi have really being going above and beyond year after year in cruelty, poverty, shitty schools, and denying children healthcare. And if you’re not the worst, you must be average… right?
The Moar You Know
@Mandalay: If by this, you mean “the Greens are perfectly willing to piggyback off of the misguided votes of liberal Dems who don’t know any better while taking 100% of their campaign contributions from Republicans trying to split what liberal voters are left in this country” then I have to say you nailed it.
Another Halocene Human
@PeterJ: Win.
Another Halocene Human
@kc: That’s a sign of narcissistic personality disorder or, worse (NPD is like a mad dog that can’t help itself), a neurotypical person who has made a choice to wallow in victimhood and vindictiveness.
What really kills me are all the unethical therapists and immoral preachers who enable these WATBs posing as grown people. I’m done, though. So done.
Cris (without an H)
I liked the part where the Democrat was ahead by triple the margin of error and the Green candidate got tarred for spoiling the race
Another Halocene Human
@The Moar You Know: Don’t forget, whose volunteers are retired Pale People lefties who just don’t trust that n***** in the White House, cuz he’s gonna steal their Social Security check!!11eleventy! I know he hasn’t yet but he’s planning it, they just know it in their guts. Also, don’t you know Jill Stein has a PhD?! And Luap Nor is a doctor!?!?
Cris (without an H)
I liked the part where the Democrat was ahead by triple the margin of error and the Green candidate got tarred for spoiling the race
Mandalay
@The Moar You Know:
Thanks for raising the issue campaign contributions. It is a good example of how Democrats are far more closely aligned to the Republicans than they are with the Green Party.
Both Democrats and Republicans have their snouts gorging at the corporate trough, accepting millions in donations from the likes of Lockheed, Time Warner, Citicorp and Goldman Sachs. In contrast, the Green Party do not accept corporate donations.
It is revealing but disappointing to see your wholehearted support for Wall Street and corporations buying our politicians.
Cris (without an H)
pretty sure it wasn’t worth posting twice
Baud
@Mandalay:
I don’t accept corporate donations either. It’s a hallmark of being irrelevant as a political party.
Another Halocene Human
@grandpa john: Wow, bitter much? OfA was pretty active in NC and SC. GA pulled pretty good #s for the Democrats with no money, though to be fair the Republicans weren’t pouring money in to defend themselves, either. Thing is, though, there weren’t too many white faces at those SC rallies.
Imo, GA and SC are turnable, GA especially due to immigration from other parts of the US into Atlanta. SC, I’m not sure how much of the growing Latino population there has citizenship status. Might be a generation before that changes.
Maybe if they stop feeding little white children racist propaganda we could see some change quicker.
Meantime, Texas has been designated the Great Democratic Plum. Might be the proximity to California and the established, citizen Hispanic communities there that are really low hanging fruit in terms of political organization.
Let’s not forget that what remains of the Democratic statewide parties in the Southeast ARE USELESS GRIFTERS AND SCUM and that makes it hard to send resources there, doesn’t it? I include Florida in this measure completely.
Mandalay
@Cris (without an H):
How about how Nader was blamed for Gore losing to Bush, when Gore couldn’t even win his home state?
Somehow it was all Nader’s fault, and nothing to do with Gore’s abysmal campaign.
Another Halocene Human
@Spaghetti Lee: Next time someone here bitches about ‘hippie-punching’ or how the Democratic party is hostile to its left wing, I’ll remember this thread. Swear to god, some of you hate the Greens more than the fucking Republicans.
Right, let’s kiss the ass and massage the tender fee-fee’s of some thumbs-up-the-butt preshuss snowflakes who refuse to join the Democratic coalition. Kissing corporate whore conservadem ass truly seems less demented, at least those evil scum have votes that come in handy.
The Green party used to be something different, but in the last decade it’s been a money making opportunity for the Nader family and the last white hope for certain “populists” who are just white nationalists with broken dog whistle antennae that missed the message about 30 years ago that all the white supremacists were supposed to become Reaganites and Restore America.
Fuck them AND the horse they rode in on. I don’t trust people who do their best to stab us in the back while pretending to support everything we do. You don’t get VAWA passed by putting more Republicans in office. Etcet.
Mandalay
@Baud:
Riiiiiiiiight….the Green Party should know their place and go to the back of the bus.
BJ gets more like RedState every week.
Baud
@Mandalay:
Nothing I said is remotely close to what you said I said. Talking about becoming more like RedState…
Jeez.
LanceThruster
@Trollhattan:
Are those American quatloos or Canadian?
Another Halocene Human
@kc: The poll may have asked about the candidates by name and they’re just capturing GOP voters who don’t care for Sanford.
Mandalay
@Another Halocene Human:
You have to be fucking kidding. The Green Party does not come anywhere close to supporting everything the Democrats do.
Trollhattan
@LanceThruster:
At this time the American Quatloo (Ameroloo) and Canadian Quatloo (Loonyloo) are at par–I blame Obama!
Mandalay
@Baud:
Oh really? You were specifically arguing that the Green Party was “irrelevant” precisely because it didn’t accept corporate money….it wasn’t conforming, and behaving in the way political parties are “supposed” to behave in your world.
You even said that rejecting corporate money was the “hallmark” of the Greens being an irrelevant party.
How uppity of those Greens to refuse corporate donations!
Baud
@Mandalay:
Um…no. I’m saying corporations don’t care to try to use money to influence Greens because Greens lack any significant support, so the Green’s position against taking corporate money isn’t all that meaningful.
And I said nothing about the “back of the bus,” which is what you initially accused me of.
LanceThruster
While I admire many of the positions of some third parties, the spoiler vote cannot be dismissed in a winner take all system.
An Unreasonable Man about Nader’s presidential bid dealt with this rather extensively and both sides made good points. Having Bush for 2 terms was an utter disaster for America though.
Todd
@Mandalay:
Do you think that had Gore pulled in those extra two million “oh so fucking principled” votes (so as to increase the popular vote victory margin) that the Supremes would have risked Chimpy’s coup?
Do you think that after 8 years as VP in an administration relentlessly shithammered from the right wing noise machine that all those pasty white and flabby conservative Christian Tennesseans saw Gore as one of their own?
LanceThruster
@Trollhattan:
Natch.
(Loonyloo…LOL)
Mandalay
@Baud:
There you go again. You have it ass backwards. It’s not that “corporations don’t care to try to use money to influence Greens”. It’s that (unlike Democrats and Republicans) corporations CANNOT buy off the Green Party because the Green Party won’t take their money. Corporations would LOVE for the Greens would take their donations.
Democrats (and some posters here) need to clarify their thinking on what the Green Party stands for, how they should view it, and how they should treat it. I suggest that your condescending and sneering approach (“I don’t accept corporate donations either. It’s a hallmark of being irrelevant as a political party.”) is not the way to go.
Regardless it is not possible to argue that on the one hand the Greens are “irrelevant”, and on the other hand squeal that they will cause Democrats to lose elections.
Baud
@Mandalay:
I guess we’ll just have to disagree.
Spaghetti Lee
@Another Halocene Human:
This is what I mean. People flip the fuck out way out of proportion. Yeah, they’re all just closet nazis, I’m sure. That’s the only reason why any lefty wouldn’t support the Democrats. As well as the first few reactions on this thread. “Who’s paying him?” Yeah, the only reason someone would dare not support your candidate is that they’re being bribed not to.
For the record, I always vote D and I think any D is better than an R. And yes, I know what a spoiler vote is, and I know how conservatives have exploited it in the past (But if most of Platt’s votes are coming from Sanford supporters hoping to spoil, um, wouldn’t they go back to Sanford if Platt dropped out? The Green voters can’t be both mostly conservative ratfuckers and mostly snobbish lefties at the same time). But I also don’t take the existence of left-wing third parties as a personal insult and assume they’re all up to something without any proof. Given that the liberal Dems here and Greens agree on the basics of most policies, I think it’s mostly about ego. Seems like all the critics here are attacking them for daring to exist.
ETA: And of course it always comes back to ‘fee-fees.’ Another stupid fucking obsession. Everyone starts mainlining testosterone whenever someone on the left doesn’t like how things are going. WELL I’M SORRY WE CAN’T PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR PRECIOUS LITTLE FEEEE-FEEEES YOU PANSY-ASS FRUITCAKE, SO HOW ABOUT YOU SHUT UP AND FALL IN LINE. Fuckin’ enough already. Yes, we get it, you’re steely-eyed pragmatists. No need to slap each other’s asses about it at every oppotunity.
Mandalay
@Todd:
Gore, like his father, was elected a senator in Tennessee, so enough of those “pasty white and flabby conservative Christian Tennesseans” preferred him to the Republican alternative. Gore was vice president for eight years during a booming economy. Gore’s boss had a 60% approval rating while Gore campaigned. Gore was running against a draft dodger with the IQ of a door knob. And Gore lost.
And somehow it’s all Nader’s fault?…
Andrey
@Mandalay: Why, exactly, do you think corporations would LOVE for the Greens to take their donations?
Can you perhaps provide an example of a corporate agent declaring anything like an intent to donate to the Green Party, or any kind of disappointment with their policies?
Yutsano
@Mandalay: You want me to respect the Green Party? Get them running for school boards and dog catcher. You know, positions that are involved with real issues in peoples’ lives instead of going straight for National Congress/President with zero state support back home. Until that happens, Greens are just Republican enablers. And this is true for ANY minority party in the US.
Mandalay
@Another Halocene Human:
I think you are onto something. Democrats and Greens should stop trying to be friends, and/or stop pretending that they are friends. Where they find common ground and common interests they should publicly agree and work together, and vice versa. But I think Democrats are pissing in the wind when they hope that Greens will “do the right thing” and stand down when it suits Democrats. Why the fuck should the Greens help perpetuate a two-party system, the only issue that ALWAYS unites Democrats and Republicans?
Much as the Democrats might wish it, the Green Party is not going away, if only because Republicans will keep funding them. But I don’t see that the Greens accepting Republican $$$ is any dirtier than Democrats accepting Wall Street $$$. Each party is doing what it has to do to survive. Don’t forget that Democrats were openly funding Todd Akin’s campaign last year to ensure that he ran against Claire McCaskill, so it’s not as though Democrats have any moral high ground on this.
Mandalay
@Yutsano:
The Green Party is going to do what is in its own interests rather than what you would like them to do. I find it plausible that they have concluded that running in state and national elections is very much in their interests, even if you disapprove.
Again, I urge everyone to stop kidding themselves that the Green Party and Democrats are anything but deadly rivals, just as much as Democrats and Republicans. The Green Party will do whatever it has to do to advance its own interests, which may or may not coincide with the interests of the Democrats (and vice versa).
Mandalay
@Andrey:
No, because it is the an explicit and open policy of the Green Party to not accept corporate donations. So I don’t really understand why you would even ask the question.
Ben Franklin
@Mandalay:
Democrats and Greens should stop trying to be friends
Do you think Democrats are Democrats?
Morzer
@Mandalay:
Statistically you are wrong in your claim. Yes, the Greens are irrelevant in terms of being a threat to the established parties or changing the national discourse. But, they might siphon off enough votes to make the difference in a close race once in a while. The two possibilities are not, in fact, mutually exclusive.
themann1086
@Another Halocene Human: This is probably the case; if anything, the Green candidate might actually take votes from Sanford than Colbert Busch. Speaking purely for my polling place, most “third party” votes come from Dems/Repubs who dislike both candidates. Registered voters of third parties have the lowest turnout, too.
Andrey
@Mandalay: Do you have anything remotely resembling a corporate agent saying “Man, we would totally have donated to the Green party if only they allowed us to”?
Do you have any other basis for your assertion that the corporations would LOVE to donate to the Green Party?
SiubhanDuinne
@PeterJ:
I’ve been thinking how totally great it would be to see Stephen do that bit with his Congresssister.
satby
That the Greens chastely refuse filthy corporate lucre while happily hoovering up donations from Republicans hardly makes the Greens the party that “can’t be bought”.
Another Halocene Human
@Mandalay: “we” meaning the Democratic coalition, not the Democratic Party, given that I was talking about the Democratic coalition that ought to have been clear, unless your intent is to dishonestly twist comments out of context to confirm your bias.
Another Halocene Human
@Spaghetti Lee: bqhatevwr, man, steely-eyed pragmatists just CHANGED THE LAW AGAIN in my county, now we will be fighting a corporate attack on that law from the state level thanks to Republican control of that body, while the purity progs wasted their time last fall telling us all about Jill Stein (I know ALL about her, buckeroos! And what you don’t know could fill a binder the size of the NY phone book. But whatever, again.) instead of FUCKING GETTING OUT THE VOTE like those brainwashed middle-aged Democratic activists for Move-On and a couple dozen insane labor activists did or attempted to do to GET THE CORPORATE WHORE OUT OF OFFICE (no thanks to the state Democratic party, btw, pace Mandalay, I in fact do not confuse Democrats with Democratic Party, that would be a category error).
You can sit there and wank about Jill Stein or Ron Paul or Nader while a GOOD MAN goes door to door and languishes for lack of money and boots on the ground in a big, rural county. We could have won that race but too many of you thought real change in Tallahassee wasn’t worth your time. Once you’ve accepted “both sides do it” and other derailing Village nonsense it makes perfect sense to go to a working people’s rally and sit in a Green Party booth and try to evangelize for a pol you LITERALLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.
Kind of reminds me of some trouble we’ve had lately trying to organize workplaces locally. It’s a RTW state and it’s really, really hard. Well, some local Wobblies (that don’t deserve the name) decided to pull some idiot wildcat shit, making numerous big mistakes, antagonizing the local community, and sticking labor leaders in the middle. The IWW attracts sometimes people who have more enthusiasm than experience, who then Dunning-Kruger their way into these situations because they won’t listen to anybody who might harsh their buzz. Then they wonder how their “massive support” dwindled to nothing.
Don’t think I’m going to stop calling so-called lefties out for being dishonest, ignorant, and counter-productive. If actually getting anything done is too ideologically impure, then you’d best acknowledge that what you have going on is a religion, not a political or social movement.
grandpa john
@kc: actually it’s NOT SC. It is a congressional district in the Charleston area.
LanceThruster
@Ben Franklin:
That’s a pretty powerful point. Dem special interests have their own baggage to lug around.
A winner take all system sure seems to distills the most Machiavellian tendencies and until there’s some sort of proportional vote. That lets us give a little more democratic input to the functioning of the republic. Even people on your side answer to what helps/funds them despite substantial public consensus on various issues. I have little (no) idea how to direct a party that treats you as the only game in town, nor how to get third parties to exercise their own power without hurting a side that is thankfully slightly less rapacious then the party that the split hurts.
The stability needed for that long slow arc bending towards justice is rapidly spinning out of control, with dire consequences for all across the board.
Herbal Infusion Bagger
I’m with Another Halocene Human: after Nader in 2000, Greens can f**k off as far as I’m concerned. Moar hippy punching, pleeze.
LanceThruster
@Herbal Infusion Bagger:
Am I an idiot for looking at the Nader runs like both sides in “An Unreasonable Man” made good points? Nobody owes or is entitled to anyone else’s vote, and certain copoerative compromises that get mutually agreed upon agenda items moved forward. When Nader said he offered the Dems something 4 platform issues they could run on, the Dems blew him off. Nader was also offered positions within the admin that, if I remember correctly, could also bring abot substantial chance the doc showed IIRC.
My lawyer friend was incensed…called him Nader the traitor. But it is undeniable the Dems found a myriad of ways to hurt themselves. How do you tell someone, “OK, you’ve had your campaign, now transfer that support to us”?
LanceThruster
@LanceThruster:
That s/b —
nor how to get third parties to exercise their own power without hurting a side that is thankfully slightly less rapacious then the party that the split helps.