Jeff Flake used to appear on Real Time with Bill Maher on occasion, playing the compassionate conservative, and when it suits him he also plays the libertarian, but all of that is a veneer over the fact that he’s just a younger John Kyl, a bog-standard red state Republican. I’ll leave it between him and the Angel Moroni to determine whether he knowingly told a lie when hand-wrote a nice letter to some grieving
Newtown Aurora parents, promising them he’d vote to strengthen background checks. Even if he was sincere at that moment, I’m sure he knew he could weasel out of doing anything that would offend the NRA. And it’s typical that he did so by telling a lie about the content of the bill (claiming it would extend background checks to transfers between friends or family, which is plainly false).
My guess is that Flake won’t join in on the Gabby Giffords countertop inspection going on at the moment, but just because he has a tiny bit of human decency, is handsome by DC standards, and smiles a lot doesn’t mean he’s not a liar, or that he’s going to change any of his generic Republican positions.
My computer shows this thread as posted at 8:00 CST, yet by 8:24 not a single comment? Lolhowz?
Flake is going to skate on these allegations of lying by lying again. Trust me, these guys are good at it. And then Coulter or Limbaugh will just trash the Giffords’ victims and the spotlight will move off Flake to someone else.
c u n d gulag
Well known hypocrite, acting hypocritically.
Color me, not surprised.
Maybe I need more coffee, but I am confused by that statement.
Brother Machine Gun of Desirable Mindfulness (fka AWS)
@Face: I suppose Republicans Acting Like Hypocritical Douchebags just isn’t news around these parts. What is there to say, really?
I have no words
“but just because he
hascan fake a tiny bit of human decency”
Remember when Limbaugh flailed his arms around, to mock Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s symptoms?
Has he has done a slurred-speech imitation of Gabby Giffords yet? Seems like that would be right up his alley…
I’m usually a defender of Ezra Klein against the Klein-bashers around here, but he really missed the point on the demise of the Toomey-Manchin bill. Basically, he argued that it was a weak bill and wouldn’t have done much anyway, so he doesn’t get why people are so upset, and better luck next time.
Talk about clueless. The obvious point, at least to me, is that if we can’t even get some tepid reforms after the wholesale slaughter of 6-year olds in their elementary school, there isn’t going to be a next time. It just ain’t happening.
Joel (Macho Man Randy Savage)
I believe the letter was to an Aurora parent, but the point remains the same. Whatta douche.
As far as his faith is concerned, there’s this little commandment in the Bible about bearing false witness: this Yahweh fellow says you’re not to do it.
And Flake’s note certainly constituted bearing false witness. He was perfectly happy to induce Caren Teves to believe that he meant more or less the same thing she did by “strengthening background checks” when he clearly meant no such thing.
What we’ve learned from the silence of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints during last year’s campaign when Mitt Romney was lying every which way is that the Mormons are perfectly OK with bearing false witness if it suits their aims.
@Joel (Macho Man Randy Savage): Yes, you’re correct. My bad.
Mike in NC
Flake has a hefty record of being a wingnut scumbag, so where’s the surprise?
Bill Maher could do the world a real service by inviting Flake back on his show and then ambushing him with a half-hour of asking why he lied to the victims’ parents like that…
Wait, hold on. If the background checks didn’t apply between “friends and family”, then who on Earth did they apply to that they didn’t already apply to? Anybody “engaged in the business” of selling firearms needs a Federal license to do so, and anybody with a Federal license to sell firearms has to background check the people who buy them.
Maybe you interdict a couple purchases on Craigslist, or something, right up until people realize that they can simply tell the cops that they’re just selling a gun to their buddy Bob, here, old friends we’ve been for years, etc. There’s no “national friends registry” so how the fuck would anybody know?
Thanks for proving yet again how completely useless Manchin-Toomey would have been, all in exchange for never ever getting a national firearms registry, which is actually something we could have used. Good trade!
@Chet: People buying guns at a gun show don’t have to go through background checks.
He’s from Arizona, where Sheriff Joe wants to put an armed Steven Seagal in each school. State of open carry laws. He could never support any level of gun control.
You misspelled “National video game-playing miscreants registry”.
@Joel (Macho Man Randy Savage): You’re right, fixed.
@mistermix: I’m not sure where you got that idea. Federally-licensed firearms dealers have to background check anywhere they sell a gun, including gun shows. Unlicensed sellers of guns – and remember, you can only sell a gun without a license if you’re not “engaged in the business” of doing so – don’t have to background check anywhere they sell a gun, including a gun show. The “gun show loophole” isn’t something that actually exists. It just refers to the fact that unlicensed sellers go to the parking lots of gun shows to illegally engage in the business of selling guns. But it’s already illegal under existing law to do that.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
That would have changed with the law, if they had tried to sell it at a gun show. Did it go far enough? No. All sales should have been required to go through a background check, ie, through a gun shop, even if it’s just for the shop to bless the sale.
OT Max Baucus won’t run in 2014.
Gin & Tonic
@Chet: How many guns can you sell before you’re “engaged in the business” and who determines that when the NRA prohibits the ATF from that very function? The “engaged in the business” is large enough to drive a truck full of Bushmasters through.
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Unless, apparently, they sold it to “friends or family.” Hey, officer, I just came to this gun show and met all of these friends! And, sure, I decided to sell them some of my guns. It’s not like it’s a “business I’m engaged in” or anything, since these are all my friends.
The loophole isn’t “gun shows”, the loophole is “friends.” Manchin-Toomey left that loophole wide-the-fuck-open, all in exchange for placing a national gun registry permanently out of reach. Awesome.
Agreed, but that was not what Manchin-Toomey put into place.
Gin & Tonic
How does Armslist work?
@Gin & Tonic:
I think the law should make that clearer. Manchin-Toomey didn’t; nothing on the docket, in fact, did. To my mind, the minute you sell a gun to someone who isn’t your immediate relative, you’re engaged in the business of selling a gun. This “friends” loophole is bullshit.
Flake is a fake, not surprising really.
@Gin & Tonic: Anybody selling on Armslist is engaged in the business of selling a gun, if you ask me. If they don’t have a license they’re doing it illegally. If they have a license and aren’t conducting background checks, they’re doing it illegally. They should be prosecuted.
@Maude: WooHoo. The health care sell-out and budgeting bluedoggedness make Baucus a problem. I’d rather see a socially conservative but economically liberal run. MT could support a Dem with a better mix of values and still win.
Republicans, like big business, always get a free ride because when they engage in amoral behavior because “it’s in their nature.” Of course Republicans who are supposed to represent the best interests of their constituents will display total fealty to their party instead, and of course they take extreme positions because preserving their job is their greatest priority. The media treats this as the scorpion and the frog, yet holding Democrats to a higher standard because Democrats are supposed to have a greater sense of altruism, and for the to do otherwise is hypocrisy.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Chet: Manchin-Toomey was trying to get something passed, even if it was an incremental step. They originally wanted all sales, but it was weakened in the hope of getting even a smaller check through.
@Joel (Macho Man Randy Savage):
Some other jackass senator or congress critter did the exact same thing to one of the Newtown parents, and subsequently voted no on the recent cloture (must have been a senator, I guess) The letter is up on Kos, IIRC.
The Moar You Know
@low-tech cyclist: You should try doing business with them.
I’m pretty sure they consider the “commandments” only applicable to other fellow travelers.
I am fine with Max Baucus retiring.
He has served his masters well.
@Chet: Engaged in the business versus doing an occasional sale is not that complicated a thing. The IRS works with similar things when determining whether someone had a hobby or a business for the purposes of deducting business expenses.
Villago Delenda Est
What a surprise. NRA shill Chet is here.
@Chet: I agree here. The “friends and family” exception was a loophole big enough to drive a truck through and banning a national registry is just stupid. I’m surprised you’re in favor of a registry.
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): I don’t understand the utility of “getting something passed” if what we pass doesn’t actually do anything helpful. And remember that Manchin-Toomey made it illegal to institute a natural firearms registry. Why give away the farm in exchange for symbolism?
What was the name of that fake reporter covering the Bush White House who was rumored to be the gay hookup of someone within said Administration? Was it Flake too?
@SatanicPanic: I’ve said I’m in favor of a national firearms registry in a dozen threads. I’m particularly upset to see liberals bemoan the failure of a bill that would have set it out of reach forever, all in exchange for empty symbolism. It’s just another example of the “die on a hill” dead-ender Totebaggerism that has been kneecapping progressivism since 2008.
@Omnes Omnibus: So then a side business selling guns on Armalist is already against the law.
@Redshirt: Jeff Guckert/Jeff Gannon.
What ever happened to that guy? Wingnut welfare column somewhere, I assume?
Google “Lying for the Lord” for the full story on why elite Mormons seem to have such a casual relationship with truth-telling.
These 9 minutes sorta capture the spirit of the thread.
@Chet: Not necessarily the case.
@Chet: We went through this ad nauseam during the arguments over and passage of the ACA. The bill doesn’t give us single-payer, so don’t pass it. The utter delusion on display, that a bunch of corporate shills, sociopaths, and bigots in the federal legislature were somehow going to turn our health care system into France’s overnight, was mind-boggling. No, Toomey-Manchin didn’t do enough. Nothing short of waving a magic wand and making the desire on the part of the people in America to possess and use firearms is enough. And like single-payer, that ain’t happening– at least not overnight, with one bill. Progress in politics and society happens gradually. Toomey-Manchin was important not just for what it did but for what it represented, which is (or would have been) the ability to start moving in the right direction. Its failure indicates far more than just an inadequate bill going away.
@Chet: Oh, OK, didn’t know that. I hadn’t been following the bill all that closely so I was shocked when Obama said it specifically outlaws a national registry. I don’t get why he was conceding that.
And if we don’t get every single thing we want now, then it’s lost to us forever.
Because everyone knows there were no subsequent changes to the Social Security Act of 1935.
Joel (Macho Man Randy Savage)
@Scott S.: Maher would never do that; he’s only a tough interrogator on things that don’t matter. If he honestly grilled a guest like Flake then he’d never get any conservatives to show up at all.
@Villago Delenda Est: Is there a Chet-signal that goes out when BJ discusses gun legislation?
ohh, look who showed up llike blowflies marking their territory.
@Cacti: OK, I’ll cede the point on the national registry. I agree that outlawing it would have been a bad thing.
ETA: @Chet too.
Flake is part of the East Valley mafia, conservative mormon ideologue. He’s usually smart enough to keep his head down and not do too many outrageously stupid things (Trent Franks anyone) but that doesn’t mean that he won’t vote lockstep with the right. Carmona ran a good campaign against him and how I wish he had been the guy to go against Grandpa Walnuts (he stood a good chance considering how polarizing McCain is) but against a nonentity like Flake who’s part of the machine it was a much tougher climb (especially with the Kenyan usurper on the ballot). Now we get another 5.5 years of the desert version of John Thune, smiling, insincere bastard that he is.
First of all, not having a national registry is already the law, so the bill just reaffirmed something already in effect. Secondly, to say something is out of reach forever is really a stupid comment. You are smarter than that.
@Ash Can: The ACA gave us something, though. It was a net gain because it actually solved some problems in exchange for its concessions. The problem with Manchin-Toomey isn’t that it doesn’t solve every problem, it’s that it wouldn’t have solved even a single problem, and in exchange it would have put a national firearms registry permanently out of reach. Absolutely zero benefit in exchange for a substantial concession. Exactly the opposite of the ACA.
@japa21: Laws can be changed down the road, I know, but the endurance of stuff like the Hyde Amendment makes me reticent to give away the farm now in the assumption that it can be bought back later. And I don’t understand the overwhelming enthusiasm in these parts to have given away the farm in exchange for nothing at all.
For your amusement.
Shorter article: Bush now has an approval rating that is no longer scraping along the bottom of the ocean, therefore Americans are rueing the day that they abandoned New George Washington for the Kenyan usurper.
@Maude: @Elizabelle: Senator Schweitzer has a nice ring to it. And he could win since he was a very popular governour.
That’s like several dozen generations have lived and died, entire cities grew from villages and then fell and decayed back to dust, in internet time.
That’s almost one half of one hour without someone wittily weighing in as a response to this brief comment on how yet another Republican acted the asshole dickweed. How?
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@SatanicPanic: Actually, it’s already the law that the government cannot create a registry. This law didn’t have to include anything. The only thing Obama conceded is that it’s currently the law.
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Oh, didn’t know that. Here I go making uninformed comments on the internet.
Chet, stop acting as if putting the inability of having a national registry in Manchi-Toomey was some give away. It wasn’t and you should know that. Even when told that that was already federal law, you repeated the claim.
How To Make Friends and Influence People, by Chet D. Chett:
1) Demand that all gun control legislation be watered down because of MUH SECOND AMENDMENT COLD DEAD HANDS.
2) Disingenuously claim that you totally would have supported said gun control legislation except that it was so watered down.
3) Get punched in the face a lot.
I’m guessing about step 3, but it only seems logical.
What do you mean “we,” NRA shill?
The Moar You Know
So glad Chet’s getting the reception he so richly deserves.
Yeah, but McCain voted for Manchin-Toomey. Although he could be retiring in 2016, so who knows…
Bring on Senator Schweitzer.
Baucus be gone!
Mistermix wrote: “.. is handsome by DC standards”