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“But what about the lurkers?”

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

In after Baud. Damn.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

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They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

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Open Thread

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Django Unchained is officially the most violent movie I have ever seen. I’m only half way through it and all I can think is “EWWW.”

*** Update ***

This is a great fucking movie. Christof Waltz is unbeleivable, Jamie Foxx has really matured into one of the better actors of our time, and I am thoroughly enjoying it. There is tons of violence, but all of it has me yelling “FUCK YEAH, THEY DESERVED IT” so far. And the Jim Croce was perfect.

Reader Interactions

130Comments

  3. 3.

    S. Holland

    Curses, was ready for popcorn, lovely drink and that movie tomorrow ! Might still…I can deal!

  4. 4.

    mclaren

    I’m guessing you’ve never seen Bullet in the Head (1990) by John Woo or the Indonesian film The Raid: Redemption (2011).

  5. 5.

    Smiling Mortician

    The most violent movie you’ve ever seen? Really? I don’t think it’s even Tarantino’s most violent.

  6. 6.

    smintheus

    Is the film as dumb ‘n’ violent as Glorious Basterds?

    Recently saw a great western on Netflix, Bad Company, with a young Jeff Bridges. Had never heard of it, but it was interesting and entertaining.

  8. 8.

    Katie5

    Just got a new cat. Young female the vet named Rosie (hope she doesn’t have the same problems her eponymous relation had). The suspicion is that she was abandoned when she got pregnant. She had 6 kittens and adopted a couple more when the female near her died. She’s very small but super affectionate.

    It was hard to ignore the kittens (optimal cuteness stage) but I felt Rosie would be the last adopted (if ever).

    She’s currently isolated from our big scaredy male cat, who needs lots of petting.

    Question I have is when can I un-isolate new cat?

  10. 10.

    gogol's wife

    I just watched The Entertainer (1960) on TCM. Sheer perfection. Why does anyone need these newfangled trashy movies?

  12. 12.

    Todd

    Love Django Unchained. Awesome sentiment, great violence.

    This week, am looking at watching Jack Reacher and Erased.

  14. 14.

    James Gary

    The violence in “Django” might seem excessive, because ultimately (to me at least) it’s arbitrary and pointless. I yawned and fidgeted through the whole thing.

    (I mean, I totally understand that Tarantino’s trying to make “meta-action movies” in the same way that Godard and Buñuel subverted the devices of cinematic narrative to snarkily comment on the viewer’s need for/expectations of a “satisfying story.” I just don’t think the end product–in the case of “Django”– is all that profound, or even clever.)

    (I suppose I should also add that I thought “Reservoir Dogs” and “Pulp Fiction” were good, and ground-breaking, movies.)

  15. 15.

    Suffern ACE

    @mclaren: The Raid is probably the most violent action movie I sat through and enjoyed. Had no trouble with it. No trouble with Save the Green Planet either. But Miike films, even the lighter ones, are too uncomfortable to watch. For some reason, the type of violence in Tarantino films can be difficult for me to sit through as well.

  17. 17.

    Suffern ACE

    @Todd:

    Sex and violence, duh!

    Sex? Where? The closest we come to that any more in an action films are two blue creatures touching tails. Sex or Violence! Pick one!

  19. 19.

    Joel

    I once watched some sick hyperviolent French movie because Ebert recommended it. I had blotted the title out of my mind but this thread brought the memory back to me. Yuck.

  21. 21.

    Suffern ACE

    Pf37 posted his essay from 2000 when he was 14 on another thread and one of the positions he thought at the time made Al Gore a hypocrite was his statment that he wanted Hollywood to tone down. I remember that Tipper was into the parental labels for the bad rock-n-roll and rap. But was there a particular movie out that summer that made movie violence an issue? I thought that might be Natural Born Killers, but that was much earlier.

  23. 23.

    FridayNext

    It’s clear you have never seen Gibson’s Passion of the Christ.

    Enough blood to fill every hallway and room in the Overlook Hotel.

  24. 24.

    Dolly Lllama

    @Redshirt: That was a fucked-up weird film. I can understand why the critical judgement on it was split, because I don’t know what to think about it myself. It was almost as weird as Cronenberg’s Videodrome.

  25. 25.

    Bizono

    Thomas Frank commented a few weeks ago about the irony of Quentin Tarantino flashing the peace sign and saying “peace out” after accepting his Oscar for yet another movie about mass murder.

    Yup.

  28. 28.

    Haydnseek

    @lawguy: The violence in a Peckinpah film is extremely stylized. Look at The Wild Bunch. Approaching dance in the slo-mo sequences, with Jackson Pollock blood. Terrible yet beautiful.

  29. 29.

    PurpleGirl

    @Katie5: I do not have a cat but I follow a live cam for kittens being socialized toward being adopted. I like cats.

    One of the BJs regularly commenters — WereBear — has a web site (The Way of Cats) where she writes about cats and how to understand them and take care of them. I recommend that you take a look at her site.

    http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/

    Someone else may answer you more directly, maybe even WereBear.

  30. 30.

    Mike in NC

    Django Unchained is Tarantino’s homage to 1960s Spaghetti Westerns, complete with over-the-top buckets of blood. The last half hour is literally a bloodbath.

  31. 31.

    gbear

    @Redshirt: I’m a big fan of A Clockwork Orange, but from everything I’ve read about Crash, I won’t go near it. I think I’d get sick.

  32. 32.

    Dolly Lllama

    No Country For Old Men was pretty violent. But a damn good movie. And damn faithful to the book, as far as movies based on books go.

  34. 34.

    David Koch

    I don’t know, Dirty Harry and Magnum Force were pretty gruesome.

    As the single most violent act, I’d have to go with blowing your head off in Deer Hunter.

  35. 35.

    Gravenstone

    Was just browsing recipes and ran across a mention of Bragg’s liquid aminos. The provided link to Bragg’s site talks about the 16 amino acids contained in the mixture – then proudly proclaims it is “free from chemicals”.

    /facefuckingpalm

    Science, how the fuck does it work?

  41. 41.

    Suffern ACE

    I’m still a little freaked about what those flying baboons did to China Girl in Oz. Those were some nasty creatures.

  44. 44.

    Beatrice

    I have a very low violence threshold. It’s easy to avoid the obviously violent films, but I get surprised sometimes because apparently the level of violence that is unremarkable nowadays and not worth mentioning in reviews is still a bit much for me.

    I guess I don’t get the point of excessive explicit gore. Does it add to anyone’s enjoyment of a movie? Mostly it feels to me like the filmmakers are showing off how realistic they can make the guts and gore. I’d like to hear why people enjoy it, because obviously it’s lost on me.

  45. 45.

    Gravenstone

    @Todd:

    Love Django Unchained. Awesome sentiment, great violence.

    This week, am looking at watching Jack Reacher and Erased.

    Thought you said “Eraser” initially. For all that is holy, don’t go down that path. Its not worth the tedium.

  46. 46.

    Dolly Lllama

    @David Koch: The chainsaw scene in Scarface (the Pacino one, not the old one) would have to be in the top 20. And the ear-cutting scene in Reservoir Dogs is pretty damn disturbing, too, even though the camera cuts away and spares you the actual watching of it.

  48. 48.

    West of the Rockies

    Daily Kos has a post about Bachmann’s former campaign peeps turning on her and saying she knew funds were illegally going to her worker(s). Oh, but wouldn’t it be lovely to see her taken down and doin’ a perp walk in an orange onesie?

  50. 50.

    Hal

    I hated Reservoir Dogs. The only purpose of that movie was to kill off each character one after another. It seemed to exist for no other reason.

  51. 51.

    Dolly Lllama

    @Beatrice:

    I guess I don’t get the point of excessive explicit gore. Does it add to anyone’s enjoyment of a movie?

    That’s why I always thought The Blair Witch Project was such a good movie. It really brought the fear using nothing but, literally, sticks, stones and scary noises.

  52. 52.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    @goblue72: The martial arts in the Raid Redemption was kick ass, Battle Royale was far more violent than Django. Django I thought was not that good the shootout was the most pointless use of gunplay. Only decent characters were Christolph Waltz and Samuel L Jackson.

  53. 53.

    Dolly Lllama

    @Hal: Well, there was clever dialogue. And Harvey Keitel who, no matter what movie he’s in or what character he’s supposed to play, just plays a single character: Harvey Keitel.

  55. 55.

    JasperL

    JC, at least you didn’t take your 83 year old mother in law to that movie for a mental health break after the recent death of her husband. She likes Jamie Foxx Leonardo DiCaprio! Never noticed it was directed by Tarantino. BAD MISTAKE!

    She was a sport about it, but said “I don’t think I want to see it again…”

  57. 57.

    White Trash Liberal

    Most violent movies I have ever seen are Martyrs, Ichii The Killer, and The Killer Dwarf. Django is prosaic in comparison.

  58. 58.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    Now the most violent teen movie I guess is Kick Ass, I liked it but some of those violent scenes especially that involved Hit Girl was a tad bit over the top.

  64. 64.

    cckids

    @West of the Rockies:

    Oh, but wouldn’t it be lovely to see her taken down and doin’ a perp walk in an orange onesie?

    Of course it would be wonderful, but . . .as if. Such results are not for the likes of Ms. Bachmann, I’m sure.

  66. 66.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    Hard Boiled is a pretty amazing movie, with some incredibly choreographed scenes. For a truly gruesome Hong Kong movie though, there’s The Untold Story. Holy shit, that movie nauseated me at times.

  67. 67.

    Haydnseek

    @Mike in NC: Eraserhead is in my top 10. It’s a bit like a William Faulkner novel. Sometimes it takes repeated readings/viewings before the lights go on. It can be well worth it, should one be so inclined.

  68. 68.

    dewzke

    Picture this…alone…off a lake in the north woods of Wisconsin and tuning in to House of 1000 Corpses. Mind you i was 28 or so at the time but that freaked me out!

  69. 69.

    Dee Loralei

    I don’t like violent movies so seldom watch them, but Eastern Promises and A History of Violence are way beyond my normal tolerance level for blood and gore. I’m surprised I was able to force myself to sit through either of them. Though I did have my head down and eyes closed.

  70. 70.

    Haydnseek

    @dewzke: “House of 1000 Corpses!” I like it, but I would love it if they were all listening to “Land of 1000 Dances.”

  72. 72.

    Sarah in Brooklyn

    @Katie5: 3 or 4 dys should be enough. Can they sniff each other under a door or something? Supervise their first interactions – and good luck!

  74. 74.

    dewzke

    Just watching it in complete darkness and alone was surreal! “Devils Rejects” also was messed up.

  75. 75.

    patroclus

    You get to kill white people and get paid for it?? What’s not to like?

    The “D” is silent.

  77. 77.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    The one movie that totally grossed me out was the sequel to The Silence Of The Lambs, Hannibal, I checked out when Hannibal was having dinner with the Ray Liotta character.

  78. 78.

    Dolly Lllama

    @Mr Stagger Lee: True that, on a lot of levels. Hard as it is to imagine, the movie actually toned down some of the violence of the book – and changed the fuck out of the ending, too.

  80. 80.

    eastriver

    Insanely good soundtrack for Django. Like Kill Bill. Beautiful camera work. Really well done. Lincoln is a snooze-fest in comparison.

    Jack Reacher is fun. More fun than it should be.

  81. 81.

    mai naem

    @efgoldman: I used to watch a lot of AMC and TCM because the movies were good and I used to think that movies were just so much better way back, movies are just crap now blah blah blah….but what I realized is that there were plenty of crap movies back then, it’s just that you only see the cherry picked good ones on AMC and TCM.

  82. 82.

    catdevotee

    Did anyone see the international sensation El Topo? It was made in Mexico in the late 60’s with a Mexican cast and director, but I don’t think it was allowed to be shown there.
    Unbelievably bloody, to the point that it seemed unworldly.

  84. 84.

    MikeJ

    @catdevotee:

    Did anyone see the international sensation El Topo? It was made in Mexico in the late 60′s with a Mexican cast and director, but I don’t think it was allowed to be shown there.

    That was the movie that made midnight movies. It literally created the genre.

  86. 86.

    mcd410x

    I’ve always found Tarantino violence to be so over the top as to not bother me.

    For out and out violence, Saving Private Ryan tops my list. War is hell.

  87. 87.

    fleeting expletive

    Whoa.

    Jon Stewart’s moment of zen just now was a clip of S.E.Cupp saying “they’re saying the problem with Washington is too much penis!” Somehow I had missed seeing that that had happened.

    Way to go Jon Stewart.

  89. 89.

    Mike E

    The original Evil Dead films are pretty over the top violent. The first one is pretty low budget and raw, but the next two are hilariously gory.

    See Dark Man if you haven’t.

  90. 90.

    Dead Ernest

    @Suffern ACE:

    Moose bites can be pretty nasty.

    My sister was bit by a moose once.

    [the Internet would like to apologize and say the writers have been sacked…]

  91. 91.

    DaddyJ

    I was interested in seeing the Joss Whedon Cabin in the Woods with my teenager, but didn’t want to sign up for a brainless gore fest, so I skimmed one of those parental guides that catalogs every act of violence. The catalog made it sound ludicrously over the top. Anybody seen that one?

  94. 94.

    YellowJournalism

    @DaddyJ: You may like it, especially if you were a fan of Buffy. Very similar sense of humor and establishes a similar, freaky-yet-funny universe as a setting.

  97. 97.

    Dead Ernest

    @Gravenstone: Ah, but look closer, these are happy little Amino Acids as you can see by their 1940’s Disney style smiling faces. Once they’ve completed their Montessori experiences they’ll come and bring you radiant health. NOT like those chemicals tortured into existence by Wicked Witches & Flying Monkeys at the foul, smelly Monsanto citadels. When those come at you they tear into your DNA like something out of a Tarantino John Yoo hybrid squad of killers.

    I do not believe any moose are involved.
    Llamas, maybe llamas.

  100. 100.

    Katie5

    @Sarah in Brooklyn: I’m following the advice at petfinder but it’s intimidating. So I hope it’s only 3-4 days. They can’t see each other. They know each other are there and must be able to smell each other. No growling from existing cat. A bit from the new cat (nicknamed N-cat).

  101. 101.

    Bruce S

    Tarantino is a great entertainer, but he makes cartoons. His best movie that’s not 50% clever gimmick is “Jackie Brown”, which is no mystery because it’s drawn from Elmore Leonard, who is a much more evolved story-teller. Not really dumping on Tarantino, because…well, he’s Quentin Tarantino and I enjoy his movies – but he’s hardly on my “great filmmakers” short-list. I don’t expect much more than I get, and I pretty much know what its going to be. As a screenwriter, he’s a case of serious arrested development when it comes to the real shit that makes movies more than popcorn opportunities. He couldn’t have developed a female character like Jackie Brown without adult help. I thought the Kerry Washington character in Django was borderline pathetic in it’s one-dimensionality.

  102. 102.

    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn

    @Mr Stagger Lee:

    Only decent characters were Christolph Waltz and Samuel L Jackson.

    Any one of which is reason alone to see a film.

    I won’t watch slasher flicks because I cannot consider their gratuitous depictions of violence as “entertainment.” And yet as I’m watching something like Inglorious Basterds, I’m fully aware the violence is gratuitous, but the meta makes it worth squirming through — especially something as intriguing as IB’s meta-message of movies literally causing the fall of the Third Reich and the end of WWII (the European part, anyway) — and, yes, I’m aware there are more nods to cinema in IB than I could pick up if I got a four-year degree in the history of cinema.

  103. 103.

    Dead Ernest

    @Katie5: I don’t think one can know how long it will take. But I think you can take comfort in picturing a future in which they tolerate one another, perhaps even bond and become pals. To reach that best you take your time and convey a sense of calm and assurance to each of them. They will take some cues from you. So, relax and think warm, light hearted thoughts.

  104. 104.

    MikeJ

    @Bruce S: How is making cartoons different from making great movies? Chuck Jones is the greatest filmmaker who ever lived.

    Live action cartoons are what Tarantino does, and he does a spectacular job at it. I don’t see how his genre takes him out of consideration as a great filmmaker.

  106. 106.

    DaddyJ

    @YellowJournalism: I might give it a try. Maybe without the teen.

    Violent-but-funny is very hard to pull off.

    In the Cole-recommended God Bless America I found the rants funny, but the murders just repellent. The scene in the original Evil Dead II where Ash fights his own hand is funny even when the chainsaw comes out, but there are some other elements of that franchise that I wish I could unsee.

  107. 107.

    YellowJournalism

    @MikeJ:

    Chuck Jones is the greatest filmmaker who ever lived

    Just thought this needed to be repeated and QFT. Some of the world’s greatest films are really nothing more than lovingly produced popcorn opportunities and possibly cartoons at heart, and there’s nothing wrong with that. (See: Chaplin, Charles or Sellers, Peter)

  108. 108.

    manfrommadras

    John, As always your spelling is unbeleivablee atrocious, but God love you for htat! :)

  109. 109.

    jnfr

    @Katie5:

    Bless you for taking in the mama. So often they get left behind while people adopt the kittens. I hope you all have a long, happy life together, and the big baby boy comes around.

  111. 111.

    Bruce S

    @MikeJ:

    Whatever…if you think Chuck Jones is “the greatest filmmaker who ever lived” and Tarantino – who has the emotional depth of an adolescent IMHO – is “great,” we don’t have much to discuss but enjoy!

  112. 112.

    Bruce S

    @YellowJournalism:

    I don’t think Tarantino can touch Chaplin – not even close – and I don’t think Chaplin is “cartoonish.” John Waters thinks Russ Myers’ “Faster Pussycat, Kill, Kill!” is not only “the greatest film ever made but the greatest film that will ever be made.” So this is mostly opinion and a matter of taste as much as anything – since nobody’s giving either of us Roger Ebert’s gig, who really gives a f*ck? I DO know that I’ve seen quite a few films that have left me with much, much more to think about and feel than the clever visceral entertainment that is Tarantino’s forte.

  113. 113.

    Mnemosyne

    @Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn:

    And yet as I’m watching something like Inglorious Basterds, I’m fully aware the violence is gratuitous, but the meta makes it worth squirming through — especially something as intriguing as IB’s meta-message of movies literally causing the fall of the Third Reich and the end of WWII (the European part, anyway) — and, yes, I’m aware there are more nods to cinema in IB than I could pick up if I got a four-year degree in the history of cinema.

    I have one of those (a four-year degree in cinema critical studies), plus a second film degree, and I still didn’t pick up all of the references.

    My favorite semi-obscure one, though, is that Tarantino makes a point of showing that Emil Jannings is at the premiere, and presumably is incinerated with the rest of the audience. Because, to Tarantino, a great actor like Jannings becoming a Nazi propagandist is a crime worthy of the worst possible punishment.

  114. 114.

    Mnemosyne

    @MikeJ:

    Kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit …

    @Bruce S:

    Art is, to a certain extent, a matter of taste. I once got into an angry argument with someone who didn’t believe I was serious when I said PG Wodehouse was the greatest novelist in English. But I am very serious about comedy being a great art form.

  116. 116.

    Elizabelle

    Django is one of my favorite movies, and I am usually a wuss about violence.

    The cartoonish red blood spatter helped mask it, and I didn’t enjoy the extended shoot ’em ups (you knew going in it’s a Tarantino movie) BUT the screenplay rocked and Waltz, Foxx and DiCaprio were phenomenal.

    Mandingo fighting scene is painful to watch, on purpose.

    Movie’s probably too long, but other than QT’s beloved spatterfests, don’t know what I’d cut. (OK, the threatened “messing with fun parts” could go.)

    Liked the Grand Tetons footage.

  117. 117.

    cosima

    Not that violent. Or bloody. The shoot-out in the mansion was a gore-fest, but other than that I thought it was pretty limited to violence with a message. Not even close to Sin City or dozens of other movies that my husband looooves.

    I laughed & laughed over the scene with Don Johnson and the hoods. Non-stop. For so many reasons, some of them legit, others just mentally assigning that level of stupidity to the prominent/vocal racists that are given so much airtime today.

    Django was not even close to as entertaining or fabulous as Inglorious Basterds. I could watch that movie over & over. Pulp Fiction, one of my all-time faves, is more violent than Django. Kill Bill is more violent.

    My husband limits me to one episode of The Walking Dead at a time, I’m so squeamish. But QT movies I can handle, there’s a lot of story in with the violence, a message.

    And what about 300? The movie & the book.

  119. 119.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    @Mnemosyne: Yes, Yes, Yes. Comedy is hard. I’d like any novelist around today to try and copy P.G.’s dialog — Bertie’s narratives are art.

  120. 120.

    Patricia Kayden

    No one mentioned the Hostel movies. Haven’t watched any, but a movie about men paying for the “joy” of torturing people sounds pretty violent and sickening to me.

  121. 121.

    Tokyokie

    I think Django Unchained is bloody brilliant. (And this is coming from somebody who thinks Kill Bill is a misfire). Tarantino realized that one cannot portray the utter depravity of slavery by making a tasteful movie (as the ever-tasteful Spielberg does with Lincoln). So he’s gleefully over-the-top with his tastlessness (which seems to suit him). But he also managed to slyly merge blacksploitation films with spaghetti westerns, something that was tried without much success in Jim Brown/Fred Williamson westerns like Take a Hard Ride back in the day because they basically mediocre spaghetti westerns (as many that were made late in the cycle were) that happened to feature black actors. I caught a lot of the spaghetti western references (Il grande silenzio, Death Rides a Horse, and by far the cleverest, the orginal Corbucci Django), but then, I grew up on spaghetti westerns. There have been a few spaghetti westerns homages over the years, like Alex Cox’s Straight to Hell and Takashi Miike’s Sukiyaki Western Django, which I especially enjoyed, but I think Django Unchained tops them.

    Still wonder where all those Antebellum rednecks got lever-action carbines though.

  122. 122.

    Lurking Canadian

    @DaddyJ: Ludicrously over the top is what it is. By the time the gore really gets going, it’s actually kind of funny.

  124. 124.

    dance around in your bones

    @debbie: THAT was really funny.

    I remember seeing Peckinpah’s Straw Dogs way back in the day and just being thoroughly traumatized by it.

  125. 125.

    John PM

    Until recently, I would have gone with Natural Born Killers. However, Machete is now the most violent film I have seen. As one example, Machete uses a baf guy’s intestines as a rope.

    I also cannot believe that no one mentioned The Departed or Goodfellas.

  126. 126.

    MarkusOfarkus

    @catdevotee: One of my favorite films is another one by Alejandro Jodorowsky called Santa Sangre.

    Wikipedia describes it accurately when it calls it “surrealist horror”.

  127. 127.

    Bruce S

    @Tokyokie:

    I’d hate to think that the range of options for treatment of slavery in film are limited to Spielberg and Tarantino – two justifiably popular directors each of whom is very talented and very limited. No surprises – they deliver as expected in good Hollywood form. Also, “Lincoln” wasn’t about slavery but about politics – and frankly as much as it annoyed me with Spielberg’s predictable flaws, I actually learned some things from it that had a connection to its subject. Django was an essentially comic revenge fantasy for 21st Century movie audiences, mirroring Inglorious Basterds. It was much more about its genre than its alleged subject matter. Given that, it was excellent movie-making.

  128. 128.

    Ed Drone

    @Haydnseek:

    You have reminded me of a radio program (or “programme” since it was on Radio Luxemburg, as I recall) called

    “Land of 10,000 ” (I can’t think of any way to indicate that a sound effect of breaking glass was part of the title).

    It was like “The Goon Show” or “Monty Python” but funny. All I ever heard was a tape (remember those? It wasn’t even a cassette!) and I had no source for more.

    Does anyone know what this show was? Any history of it or source I can explore?

    Thanks anyway

    Ed

    PS: There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand the concept of binary and those who don’t.

  129. 129.

    Sasha

    Question: Why did Django gun down the empty-headed sister of Calvin Candide in cold blood, but allow the complicit female slaves to escape with their lives?

  130. 130.

    Elizabelle

    @Sasha:

    Maybe because sister was the one who spilled the beans about “looks like this little pony only has eyes for Django” and set up what followed?

    I wondered too. Loved her exit, though. Swish.

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