Depressing gun control poll of the day:
Democrats and Republicans continue to be divided over the need for new gun control laws, and the most recent national survey of registered voters from Fairleigh Dickinson University’s PublicMind finds that attitudes regarding the perceived likelihood of an armed revolution to protect liberties and the truth about the Sandy Hook shooting are helpful in explaining this partisan divide. Nearly three-quarters (73%) of Democrats say that Congress needs to pass new laws to protect the public from gun violence, but the views of Republicans are almost completely opposite: 65 percent don’t think new laws are necessary. Overall, registered voters are divided over the need for new gun control legislation. Fifty percent agree it is needed, with 39 percent who disagree.
Oh it gets worse.
So some 44% of Republicans think armed revolution is necessary in the next few years, and that’s a plurality of them. Yeah, the problem is Obama isn’t meeting them halfway, right?
Amir Khalid
You said it! They stink on ice!
(I mean, the nutters who think America needs armed revolution.)
WereBear
Who the heck are these freakin’ people?
Violet
Nearly three-quarters (73%) of Democrats say that Congress needs to pass new laws to protect the public from gun violence,
So that leaves the magic number. 27% of Dems are crazy too.
Chyron HR
What the hell is “Neither”? How can you answer “Neither” to a yes/no question?
Roger Moore
I suspect that some of what’s going on with the gun control question is that it’s very vague. If you say “is more gun control necessary”, Republicans will reflexively answer no because that’s their party’s position. If you ask them instead about specific policies, especially about expanding background checks and/or keeping felons and mentally ill people from buying guns, they’re a lot more likely to agree. If we want to win the argument, we need to focus on specific policies, not on the general topic of guns.
Butch
Please let me watch these lunatics with their AK-15s trying to face down a Bradley or a drone.
Scott S.
Might be able to look forward to the day when America’s wingnuts race out of their homes, guns drawn, and simultaneously shoot their own heads off.
srv
Y’all really need to stop thinking of the US as one country.
They don’t want to go where you feel they are required to go.
Villago Delenda Est
The 44% of Republicans think that the Democrats will take away their liberties, when, in fact, it’s other Republicans…the bulk of the 1%.
This tells you all you need to know about the 44% of Republicans. They’re fucking idiots.
Poopyman
So am I the only one who thinks maybe this is telling us that it might be a good idea to prepare ourselves for the day our neighbors rise up agin the gubmint?
belieber
You gl00m pr0n addicts love this sheit. Who are you trying to kid.
Meanwhile, 10 years ago today this happened.
http://i.imgur.com/el81hNl.jpg
Poopyman
@Villago Delenda Est:
Fixacated.
Amir Khalid
@Butch:
I see what you did there.
Villago Delenda Est
@Poopyman:
True, but most of them don’t know if there’s a round chambered or not.
Zifnab
And when the revolution comes, I bet they know exactly who needs to get thrown against the wall. :-p
‘effing delusional. I really am looking forward to the first state to go full metal Confederate and play the secession card. Eisenhower knew how to deal with dim-witted jack-offs like that back in the 50s.
raven
@Poopyman: Someone has to TELL you that?
SatanicPanic
These people are all talk. For reference, see yesterday’s post on James O’Keefe’s speech tour. I am not scared.
Death Panel Truck
@Poopyman: That 44 percent figure makes me consider whether or not to buy and learn how to use a handgun. I want to protect myself from these crazy motherfuckers when they decide to try to water the tree of liberty with my Type O positive blood. I happen to be using it right now.
gocart mozart
The 1% who refused to answer are currently plotting revolution and are afraid to tip off the FBI.
catclub
@belieber: Mission Accomplished Day! As they sang in Life Of Brian, Always look on the bright side of life.
I somehow thought May 2 or 3, 2003.
Bruce S
More evidence that traditional liberals and independent-minded moderates are the only true “conservatives” – i.e. those who care about preserving the best of our democracy, civil incrementalist politics, balance between class interests and some modicum of social stability – in context of today’s crazy political terrain. “Conservatism” is essentially dead in the GOP, in favor of right-wing reactionary radicalism and white populism – largely funded, of course, by self-serving plutocrats.
This is a scary poll but not really surprising. Psuedo-nationalism, nativism and a concocted myth about reclaiming some purer past glory are all elements of political movements that tend to end badly – and hopefully sooner rather than later, after they’ve wreaked real havoc. “You know who else…” believed in this kind of stuff? I won’t literally go there but it’s not as much of a joke as I wish it was.
Poopyman
@raven: Noooooooo, nor am I necessarily unprepared, but I’m not going to go telling them that.
raven
@Death Panel Truck: Fuck a handgun, if the shit comes down you’ll need more than that.
raven
@Poopyman: But they are everywhere, even here!
The Moar You Know
You’re reading the results wrong.
29% of the idiot populace thinks an “armed revolt to preserve America” needs to happen.
44% of that 29% are Republicans.
27% of that 29% are Republicans who are ashamed to call themselves that.
18% of that 29% are Democrats. What the fuck is that?
Bruce S
NOte that while a large majority of Dems disagree, less than a third of GOPers disagree. I would also like to know more about the composition of the 18% of Dems who agree. I don’t see any evidence of those types in context of the congressional Democrats. While there is clear evidence of this craziness among congressional Republicans (the AMMO act, etc.)
Are that many Dems that stupid? Or does polling tend to be stupid?
Villago Delenda Est
@Bruce S:
Bingo.
eric
the poll is not as bizarre was one might think. This is the very debate Malcolm X and King had in the Sixties. If you really believe your rights are at risk, then is ok to violently rise up? For many of these people, they have been subjected to the grifters and the fear mongers for so long that they cannot tell when they are being played (see the govt buying ammo grift that even the NRA refutes). Thus, the real criminals here are not simply the people that would rise up violently, but the grifters that led that horse to the water. I am not absolving people for thinking stupid shit…but they have been played and the players (Murdoch Rush et al) have told them not to believe a word in opposition because they are all lies so you cant reach them with evidence or reason. SO, i guess i am saying not to over react to a turn to violence to defend rights, but focus the rage on the Grifters.
Villago Delenda Est
@The Moar You Know:
Your “blue dog” types. Mainly blue collar, I’d venture, and mostly rural.
pseudonymous in nc
@SatanicPanic:
But as billmon noted, if you take x million people who give lip-service to armed revolution and say that 0.001% might do something about it, you still have more than a few armed nutcases.
Goblue72
I can’t find the poll tables and tabs from the link. Wondering if there are any regional breakdowns. With these kind of “GOP voters teh cray-cray”, its usually unsurprising to find the results skewed by batshit racist Republican voters in the South.
Bruce S
@The Moar You Know:
I don’t think so – I think the results work straight across as interpreted above. Of course the 44% of Republicans comprise the bulk of that 29% of “all”. But by your interpretation the numbers in the breakdown columns would all have to add up to 100% across each field, but they don’t (“Men: 30, Women:29” which would leave an awfully large cohort of radical right transgender folks – or something – to make up the difference. It doesn’t compute.)
Zandar
@The Moar You Know: If that were the case, the 3 party numbers and the 2 gender numbers would add up to 100%. They don’t.
Villago Delenda Est
@raven:
Abso-fracking-loutely.
Which is why semiauto (with a little work convertable to full rock n’ roll) rifles are the focus of the current firearms debate, not Saturday night specials.
Gin & Tonic
99.99% of the people answering “yes” to the “armed revolution” question would wet their pants the second they were faced with anything approaching this.
The Moar You Know
@Death Panel Truck: You can rent one at a range and learn how to use it, and I recommend that. However, with these people, you will need more than that. Fortunately, most gun ranges will let you rent most anything and you can find firearms that you’re comfortable with shooting, and learn what your strengths and weaknesses are. Me, if I had to go with only one gun, it’s a bolt-action 30-06 rifle. No-brainer.
If anyone asks what you want a gun for, and the more responsible ranges will do that, tell them you’re concerned about a SHTF scenario where immigrants decide to take over the Western United States. Common enough to not mark you as some anti-government loon that could cause them problems down the road, red-meat enough that no one will think you’re one of the commies on their kill list.
One of the advantages of going to the local range is you can see just how much heat your neighbors are packing. Try not to shit your pants. You will very quickly be convinced of the wisdom of your decision.
Bubblegum Tate
Yes, but you see, when the armed revolution comes, it will be ALL OBAMA’S FAULT because WHY ARE YOU MAKING ME HIT YOU?
Yutsano
@belieber: Herp de Durf. Yer kinda slow ainchta boy?
Cassidy
@SatanicPanic: I don’t believe they’re all talk. I jus tthink that indivdually, they’re too scared to lead. They’re waiting for someone to tell them it’s [finally] okay. But they’re waiting. They talk about it and genuinely believe that our gov’t is illegitimate and that the American way of life is under threat of extinction. They’re just too chickenshit to take the first shot. Honestly, that’s my biggest fears about one of these militias or compounds. I don’t think it’s going to take much to set these nutters off and a siege like Ruby Ridge or terrorism against the right people just might be enough to do it. Collectively, they are seething with anger and hatred. We need to disarm them.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
Well, the whole point of right wing politics is to give the rubes as many possible targets for their anger as possible so that when the people who control society either fuck up royal or take away everything they have, they’ll blame… someone else.
@SatanicPanic:
Yes, I’m inclined to agree with that.
I mean… think about it. In their world, Obama has already usurped a throne that he was constitutionally banned from having, he’s already imposed communism in the health care system, he’s condoning the abortion-holocaust of millions of our children… I mean, what else could he possibly “do” that would finally persuade them to get off their Medicare scooters and go into open revolution? If they haven’t done it by now…
Villago Delenda Est
@pseudonymous in nc:
Which remains problematic. They can sow fear and chaos easily, and they’re damned difficult to track down…ask Napoleon, or Hitler, or the Brits in Malaysia, or Westmoreland in Vietnam. Or any of the various revolving door generals in Iraq or Afganistan.
The question is, do they have the hardiness to stick it out like the guerrillas of the Iberian Peninsula or the Maquis or the Viet Cong or the tribes of Afghanistan?
I tend to think not. You do have to train to be miserable…I know this first hand.
SatanicPanic
@pseudonymous in nc: Totally right. I am a bit scared of the terror attacks they might carry out, but I’m pretty sure they won’t be able to upend our democracy and start the fascist dictatorship they’re hoping for.
Llelldorin
@The Moar You Know:
I wish you were right, but I don’t think you can be. If the results read as you think, the rows should sum to 100%. They don’t—the three numbers that you cite only add to 89%, while the numbers in the second row sum to 137%. The columns (the way every one else has been reading this) DO sum to 100%. 44% of Republicans surveyed answered yes, depressingly enough.
Edited to add: Others said the same first.
Bubblegum Tate
@Roger Moore:
Well, one wingnut I know claims to be in favor of expanding background checks and preventing violent felons and the mentally ill from buying guns, but he says he will oppose those things tooth and nail as long as Obama (or any Democrat) is in the White House because “I don’t trust them to not use it as a back door to disarming the general population.”
So…yeah.
Cassidy
@SatanicPanic: Funny you should mention that…thousands of war vets in the various State National Guards.
Amir Khalid
@Yutsano:
Now, he’s a Belieber?
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid:
And then I saw her face…
(on edit: looks like Apollo is still angry with you…your @Yutsano didn’t linkyize. I suggest sacrificing some small furry animals)
pokeyblow
The problem isn’t that Obama isn’t meeting them halfway.
Part of the problem, however, is that Obama legitimizes them through his perpetual attempts to do just that.
Poopyman
@The Moar You Know: I went to rent something at the local range and told them I was worried about the Zombie Apocalypse. They rented me a chainsaw.
SatanicPanic
@Cassidy: You really think they’re going to lead an attack on the government though? I don’t know too many vets personally but I find it hard to imagine they’d want to do that.
jl
” So some 44% of Republicans think armed revolution is necessary in the next few years, ”
I am sorry it is so high. But since GOP is only about 27 percent (Wiki says so as of 2011), that is about 12 percent of the country who are reactionaries ready to shoot up the place if they don’t get their way on everything. So, sad and scary, but if they try to act on it, it will be handled.
But, I have long made a stink about this ugly aspect of gun nuttery. It is tied to the dangerous idea that the second amendment is guarantees some kind of constitutional right to resort to violence as a means of redress of grievances.
You see it in the Jefferson quote about blood watering the tree of liberty, which when read in context says the opposite of what the teabaggers and gun nuts say it means.
You see it in a couple of Madison’s sentences from the Federalist papers, ignoring the counterbalance of Hamilto on the same topic there. And also ignoring Madison’s fuller analysis when Madison tried to reason his way out of the mess Jefferson made with the nullification issue.
Continued temporizing with second amendment absolutist gun nuttery is dangerous.
raven
@Cassidy: What you mean WE white man? :)
Cassidy
@SatanicPanic: I think if things escalated to the point of violence and insurrection, yes, the states that are most likely to do it are filled with people who are more loyal to their states than they are to the US. As I mentioned, the citizens are too chickenshit to start it off, but if a cabal of state gov’ts seceded, logistically, they would have to mobilize their National Guard to secure the borders and take control of military bases. That being said, i don’t see nay of these states willing to do that as they like that federal money too much, so they’re only talking a big game.
Chris
@Bubblegum Tate:
That’s the first thing that occurred to me when I saw polls showing that 80% or 90% of the public supported background checks: “no they don’t. They might support them in theory, but as soon as you pose it as something Obama suggested versus something Republicans oppose, 30/40% of that will evaporate instantly.”
Republican voters aren’t incapable of having moderate and reasonable thoughts of their own. It’s just that as soon as it’s explained to them that these thoughts are heretical, treasonous and worst of all, what liberals want, they’ll immediately bury them and defer to their gurus. Which is why I’ve always found “conversation” with the average conservative to be a waste of time – they themselves don’t know what they actually believe until Fox News tells them.
Cassidy
@raven: We, the non-traitorous US Citizens.
Amir Khalid
@Villago Delenda Est:
I must differ, at least with regard to my country. The Communist Party of Malaya were more than just armed nutcases; and for much of the party’s history, going back to the 1920s, there were more than a few of them.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@The Moar You Know: Actually, 49.4% of that 29% is Republicans, 30.4% independent, 20.2% Democrat
Poopyman
@raven: My thoughts exactly. Who will bell the cat? Especially after somebody’s convinced him that when someone shows up to bell him, it will be the Antichrist.
Southern Beale
This is why Republicanism is no longer a political movement, it’s a fucking mental disorder.
gene108
If this PPP poll is accurate and Flake’s poll numbers took a hit for voting against Manchin-Toomey, there may still be hope.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/sen-jeff-flake-yep-my-vote-against-gun?ref=fpb
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid:
Well, the Viet Cong were not armed nutcases, either.
The idea is an insurgency in general is difficult to deal with.
However, I don’t think our armed nutcases here have the balls to try what the Viet Cong did or your local communists did.
Because the latter two were far more than “armed nutcases”. Their insurgency had actual intellectual heft.
Not so of our armed nutcases here. Although they do attempt it.
elmo
Those of you who are surprised at this have clearly never visited any of the Freeper threads about the supposed wave of black-on-white violence that is being suppressed by the “enemedia.” Those are shocking.
Many of the responses in those threads are very clear, don’t dance around, don’t use code, and just say flat-out that they are very much looking forward to the coming race war. Not worried; not concerned; not “oh gosh I hope this never happens.” They are not shy at all about saying, in so many words, that they can’t wait until they have an excuse to shoot black people (and Hispanics and liberals, but mostly it comes up about black people).
And when I’m tempted to pooh-pooh what I’m reading as over-the-top hyperbole for the benefit of the audience, I remember the hunting parties in white neighborhoods after Hurricane Katrina.
Southern Beale
Also, I’d like to take this moment to quote from the late, great conservative “journalist” Jeff Gannon:
Southern Beale
Meanwhile, in Kentucky, a 5-year-old uses the rifle he was given as a gift to shoot and kill his 2-year-old sister because FREEDOM. The gun was left out, loaded. And the county coroner called it “just one of those crazy accidents.”
SatanicPanic
@Chris: Would FEMA reeduction camps do it? How about ordering them to pick watermelons and replacing their names with #s? I wonder what their breaking point is myself.
Hungry Joe
@SatanicPanic:
That pretty much nails it … and even a McVeigh-level terror attack is a lot less of a threat to any of us than a drunk driver or a neighbor’s little kid who got a .22 for his birthday. Armed rebellion? Syria-like civil war? Government overthrow? Please. If it’s not all talk, it’s 99.9999% talk. And that ain’t enough to do more than kill some innocent people … and inspire posts about armed rebellion, Syria-like civil war, and government overthrow.
Mnemosyne
@Southern Beale:
I was saying in the other thread where this came up that it seems to me that one of the biggest changes in our gun culture is that gun owners really seem to treat them like toys and are shocked, shocked when their gun actually kills or injures someone.
My dad always had guns, and always kept them locked up. He was very clear with all of us kids that guns were not toys.
Now a frickin’ .22 rifle is just an amusing toy you give to a four-year-old for his birthday. Not a BB gun, not a toy gun, but an actual rifle. To a four-year-old.
WTF is wrong with these people?
elmo
@Southern Beale:
Yeah. I’m really sick over that one. Who gives a fucking rifle to a preschooler?
cleek
@pokeyblow:
Obama is legitimizing people who want to overthrow the government?
i wish the poll had asked a few more questions. there seems to be a lot of conspiracy-minded folks out there…
Li
@Butch: You already did, it was called the Iraq War II. News Flash: the US Military lost, and had to leave town in the dead of night without prior announcement.
Jack the Second
@SatanicPanic:
Hey, you’re talking about the Scooter Brigade here. They can be literal armchair commandos.
raven
@Villago Delenda Est: “have the balls to try what the Viet Cong”
Two ways, no way and no fucking way.
I hate to get all nostalgic but this shit is nothing like 1968. Sorry worrywarts.
SatanicPanic
@Hungry Joe: You know what’s incredibly weird to me? The right has gone to such lengths to make terror attacks not a reflection on them, that the attacks don’t do anything for their movement. The muslim fundies at least get a reaction and gains in recruiting. When some right winger attacks everyone shrugs. I mean terrorism is bad regardless of who or why it’s being done, but I really don’t get what the right thinks they’re accomplishing.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mnemosyne:
Their fetish runs their lives for them.
Hungry Joe
@SatanicPanic: That’s a good point. Right-wing terror attacks seem unable to inspire anything but a few handfuls of low-IQ blowhards with an uncanny knack for finding FBI agents to infiltrate their groups.
johnny aquitard
Shorter: If there isn’t an old bible-humping white man running things in the next few years, most old bible-humping white men will want to see the our police, soldiers and democratically elected government officials shot. Plus liberals, soci-alists, trade unionist, atheists, homosexuals, feminists, and anyone of sufficient melanin who doesn’t get back in their rightful place as god intended.
Chris
@Hungry Joe:
Right wing terrorist attacks are a byproduct of the mass hysteria that right wing pundits, politicians, financiers and other elites work hard to induce in their followers in order to drive them to the polls and to the Tea Party Movement rallies. I don’t think they actually think much about such byproducts as long as the mobs keep turning up to vote.
Bubblegum Tate
@Chris:
Indeed. The kicker to said wingnut’s stance is that he thinks it proves how “terrible and untrustworthy” Obama is (“Remember: I WANT to do these things, but I oppose them now because Obama!”) and not how deranged and obedient he is.
fuckwit
It’s the 29% ers!!! That fucking number keeps coming up.
I wouldn’t drink it though. Most of it is backwash.
And how closely it tracks with education!! None of the edumucated folks are this stupid.
A democracy is only as strong as its dumbest, most ingorant voter.
Education has to be the #1 priority if we are to save this nation, and government of the people in general.
fuckwit
@elmo: And Putin made a joke this week wondering if the American Civil War has started up again.
Looks more like it has never ended.
rikyrah
they didn’t open their fucking mouths about ‘revolution’ until a BLACK MAN BECAME PRESIDENT.
RSA
@fuckwit: In other words, colleges continue to be liberal indoctrination centers, convincing people not to rise up in an armed revolution against the government.
Todd Dugdale
@Villago Delenda Est: I have a hard time believing that they could manage a real military effort. They are mostly older, after all. But they could pull off some kind of death-squad activity.
artem1s
@Zifnab:
EisenhowerSherman knew how to deal with dim-witted jack-offs like that back in the50s1860s.Uncle Ebeneezer
@The Moar You Know: Yeah I’m guessing the 27% are Liebertarians aka stoned Republicans.
Fax Paladin
The question is also more vague than it might be. Do I think armed revolution *might* be necessary in the next few years? Yes, it’s within the bounds of possibility. Do I think it’s *likely* to be necessary? No.
Although possibly the scenario I’m thinking of would be more accurately described as “counterrevolution,” since what I’m imagining would follow a GOP coup d’etat (think “President Boehner”) (edited to add: also, I have a rather strong imagination). Also: the Democrats who agreed with the question could either be thinking of that situation or be in the Obama-betrayed-us-all-man-the-barricades camp…