David Stuckler, Oxford sociologist, and Sanjay Basu, Stanford epidemiologist, have a book to sell. They had a most interesting op-ed in Sunday’s NYTimes concerning that book, “The Body Economic: Why Austerity Kills”:
… The correlation between unemployment and suicide has been observed since the 19th century. People looking for work are about twice as likely to end their lives as those who have jobs.
In the United States, the suicide rate, which had slowly risen since 2000, jumped during and after the 2007-9 recession. In a new book, we estimate that 4,750 “excess” suicides — that is, deaths above what pre-existing trends would predict — occurred from 2007 to 2010. Rates of such suicides were significantly greater in the states that experienced the greatest job losses. Deaths from suicide overtook deaths from car crashes in 2009.
If suicides were an unavoidable consequence of economic downturns, this would just be another story about the human toll of the Great Recession. But it isn’t so. Countries that slashed health and social protection budgets, like Greece, Italy and Spain, have seen starkly worse health outcomes than nations like Germany, Iceland and Sweden, which maintained their social safety nets and opted for stimulus over austerity. (Germany preaches the virtues of austerity — for others.)
As scholars of public health and political economy, we have watched aghast as politicians endlessly debate debts and deficits with little regard for the human costs of their decisions. Over the past decade, we mined huge data sets from across the globe to understand how economic shocks — from the Great Depression to the end of the Soviet Union to the Asian financial crisis to the Great Recession — affect our health. What we’ve found is that people do not inevitably get sick or die because the economy has faltered. Fiscal policy, it turns out, can be a matter of life or death….
One need not be an economic ideologue — we certainly aren’t — to recognize that the price of austerity can be calculated in human lives. We are not exonerating poor policy decisions of the past or calling for universal debt forgiveness. It’s up to policy makers in America and Europe to figure out the right mix of fiscal and monetary policy. What we have found is that austerity — severe, immediate, indiscriminate cuts to social and health spending — is not only self-defeating, but fatal.
Corner Stone
I’m confused. Who’s fault is this?
kc
I don’t expect this to move our political leaders, since most of them want the unemployed to fuck off and die anyway.
Baud
@Corner Stone:
Everyone’s.
PsiFighter37
This shouldn’t be news. NYT ran an article last year about Greeks committing suicides when their small businesses shut down, leaving families who had worked for generations penniless, destitute, and hopeless.
Seriously, all these fucking assclowns who think waving the magic wand of austerity around their asshole and think it will produce a sweet-smelling fart with a slight taste of candy cane should wake the fuck up and realize that, in the real world, 4 minus 2 does not equal fucking 6. And yet, the IMF, the Germans (particularly the CDU and the Bundesbank), and the rest of the non-periphery EU who isn’t at the mercy of the Germans yet continue to perpetuate this lie that it’s all the fault of fucking lazy-ass Southern Europeans. Maybe someone needs to tell the fucking Bundesbank that the Weimer Republic died a long time ago (mainly because Hitler fucked the system and then torched the remains) and that hyper-inflation from the 1920s isn’t coming back.
PTSD of the economic sort apparently lasts a really fucking long time across the pond.
PF37 +5, mainly because I have to listen to AUSTERITY!!1111 advertised on CNBC all fucking day long and want to beat the living daylights out of shitheads and fuckwats like Michelle Caruso-Cabrera and Larry Kudlow
srv
@Corner Stone: We wouldn’t have any problems if all these old farts didn’t think they were entitled to live forever.
Sucking on their SS, Medicare and filing up the comment sections with their “Reading all those Emptywheel links and nuance is too hard so I’ll just cherry pick or go ad hominem.”
Yatsuno
@PsiFighter37: What the Germans could not do with Panzers and divisions they have done with bankstahs and the EU. Greece should have never been in the EU. I hope Turkey is looking very very carefully at their neighbours to the west and thinking aww hell naw we ain’t dealing with that shit.
Ruckus
Does anyone think that those who espouse austerity give 2 shits that people will die from their policies? Or that they are not thinking that people dying from them is a good thing?
They don’t care that more people will die or suffer. They really just don’t give a fuck. As long as they and their friends/benefactors get wealthier, they just don’t give a fuck. And nothing short of them dying will change that. They are not going to have an epistemic rush of empathy. Not gonna happen.
Nerdlinger
I think Martin Wolf pointed out that austerity is literally human experimentation without consent. It’s sickening.
PsiFighter37
@Ruckus: It’s not about becoming wealthier, it’s about being made whole. These fuckheads couldn’t care less about a few flesh wounds, so long as they don’t end up like Jamie Lannister or Theon Greyjoy (I haven’t read the books, so just going off what I’ve seen on teevee so far).
@Yatsuno: Pretty sure Turkey has some human rights issues that are preventing them getting in as well. It’s weird; it’s like they’re a boy and girl that want to get it on, but one has herpes, and the other has the clap – and they each know it. Makes for an uncomfortable situation.
SiubhanDuinne
@kc: Don’t apologize for a standard-issue FYWP double post. I had half a dozen ersatz Vietnamese comments going on a while ago and couldn’t figure out how to delete that keyboard. (And I still don’t know where it came from.)
scav
Yeah, culling the herd, not coddling the weak, supporting those unable to take care of themselves, they’re not going to care. They should have known better, not worn that dress, gotten into that occupation, not brought down GOD and the Holy Profit’s Wrath down upon themselves.
Calming Influence
Yeaaah, but it’s patriotic American austerity, not foreign mooslim terrorist austerity, so anyone who dies because of it is a patriot watering the tree of liberty with their blood.
FREEEEEEEEDOMMMMM!
Ruckus
@PsiFighter37:
Wealthier, made whole, what the fuck difference does it make what we call it? The bottom line is they are willing to fuck over completely anyone to get there. And there is never enough money for them to get whole, because that is an ever changing end point. Take the kochsuckers/brothers, all they want is more but they have so much now and more is never enough so what we have to conclude is that what they really want is everything.
PsiFighter37
@Calming Influence: You totally nailed what Thomas Jefferson had in mind when he said that quote.
It’s a bullshit quote, too, because all the aristocrats who founded this country would’ve let the masses burned, so long as they could’ve held onto their estates, their slaves, and their accumulated wealth.
Can you tell too much I come from the Charles Beard school of rationalization about the Constitution?
me
Close your blockquote!
PsiFighter37
@Ruckus: That’s the only memorable line from Wall Street 2. “What’s your number?” “More.”
Oh, and the Koch brothers are actually socially liberal – there was a profile that said they were pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. It really emphasizes that these shitheads care about nothing more than having extra Benjamins to throw at the masses, look at them, and say dance, motherfuckers, dance as hard as you fucking can so you can make it rain green.
Nothing else matter to these shitheads.
Of course, until their daughter turns out to be a lesbian of minority ethnicity in need of an abortion because of health reasons. Then see how quickly they tap-dance back. But they’ll still look to fuck you for economics reasons. See: Portman, Robert
jrg
One of the conditions of lending someone money is that you reserve the right to stop lending them money. Assume for a minute that’s counter-productive to the Germans to stop bailing out Greece (I don’t think it is), how is it not their prerogative?
El Cid
It’s kind of nice that the way in which Jeffrey Sachs, the Harvard Institute for International Development, and all sorts of establishment ‘experts’ fucked Russia over so badly just when it needed the most help hasn’t been entirely disappeared down the memory hole.
pokeyblow
I’ll bet the president talked about this very subject during his recent lunch with Lloyd Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Brian Moynihan, et al.
kc
@SiubhanDuinne:
Glad it’s not just me. Thanks to AL or whoever cleaned that up.
Corner Stone
@Baud: It’s not everyone’s fault sweetie.
Baud
@Corner Stone:
Of course, I meant everyone except you, precious.
Corner Stone
@srv: Agreed.
Corner Stone
@Baud: Well, indeed. Punkin.
Schlemizel
Its a feature, not a bug. Fewer takers.
@srv:
I’d like to start out with a hardy ‘fuck you’ as those old people have not only paid all the costs of SS over the last 40 years but actually build a nearly $3 trillion dollar surplus what has been given away in tax breaks for wealth folks. SS is not any part of the current, or even near-term, financial problems.
Medicare is also not currently any part of our problems. There are some simple changes that need to be made and we have to figure out how to control the ridiculous inflation rates in health care. But even if it were to eventually be a real problem it has no blame in the current situation.
You, however, go on and play the ‘us v. them’ game as it makes the asshole who created the real problems and benefit from the proposed solutions very happy.
Ruckus
@PsiFighter37:
I have had to deal directly with koch petroleum and all the gasoline in the world would not clean off the slimy feeling I got doing that. And I was dealing with someone down the food chain from the brothers. They are slime, primeval ooze, reptilian scum, just plain assholes.
Chris
@Yatsuno:
Is there any way the Euro survives this? The Germans aren’t about to end this austerity crap and the PIIGS governments can’t put up with it forever. At some point, something’s gotta break.
Higgs Boson's Mate
When the Congresscritters who espouse austerity have cut their staffs to a bare minimum, waived their pensions and health plans and voluntarily refunded substantial portions of their salaries to the Treasury I’m more than willing to give them a listen.
Until then I’d be just as happy to pull each of them on like a boot.
Ruckus
@srv:
Never noticed before that you were an asshole. Is this something new?
I paid into SS for over 50 years and in fact am still paying into it, even though I am one of those parasites sucking on the SS tit. It’s called an entitlement because that’s exactly what it is – I am entitled to the money that I put into it. I put more in than the average for those 50 yrs so I get above the average in return. I also payed into Medicare for the 47 years that it has been around and am still doing that even though I can’t collect it for another year. And then I get to pay an amount each month out of my SS to use it.
So to you I say a hardy FUCK OFF.
Corner Stone
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
they don’t get rich off their Gov salaries.
NotMax
Paging Mr. Scrooge. Mr. Ebenezer Scrooge.
Please report to the white courtesy semaphore tower.
Higgs Boson's Mate
If the generation warriors will just give me back every dime that I’ve paid into SS as a lump sum I’ll promise not to ask for another thing.
Corner Stone
@efgoldman: What’s wrong, amigo? You have a problem with President Obama?
You fucking Firebagger.
Yatsuno
@Chris: I thought that once Cyprus blew up that would be the breaking point for them, but they bent over for Angela Merkel like she was their dominatrix and ate their shit sandwich meekly. The thing is, if Cyprus had left the monetary union, Greece would have followed right behind. But someone is convincing them it’s worse to leave than to stay, and I’m pretty certain it’s a very Teutonic sort of whisper. The Germans are doing their damndest to NOT take the haircut.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Corner Stone:
And I don’t get rich from my wages. What’s your point?
Roger Moore
@PsiFighter +37:
It’s also worth pointing out that the Weimar Republic survived the hyperinflation of the early 1920s, but died as a result of the depression in the early 1930s. One hopes that the people in charge of the Bundesbank want to avoid a repetition of that experience rather than court it.
srv
@Corner Stone: So many sensitives here. You got them all riled up by killing Stuck.
Corner Stone
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: I…uhhh…I don’t know. I thought that was very clear.
I’m kind of sorry you don’t get the statement.
Ruckus
@srv:
Actually you are the one that riled me up by being full of shit.
Corner Stone
@srv: God dammit. Annie killed Stuck. Then she killed AWS. And possibly Tom Levenson.
We’re not really certain about the last part.
Xenos
@jrg: In the case of Germany, now that the effects of austerity include choking off demand for German-produced products, their opposition to loosening the money supply has rather suddenly shifted. Probably too late to avoid a generation’s worth of recession, but it seems to be happening at last.
Xenos
@Roger Moore: And it ought to be mentioned that at the point that the German people let the Nazis, with an electoral plurality of around 35% range, take over the country was due to a political crisis which followed the devastation of the economy as a result of a policy of… austerity.
Everyone who has been saying ‘inflation –> tyranny’ have it exactly wrong.
Ruckus
@Xenos:
Are you saying that conservatives will change their policies when they need to to benefit themselves? I can’t believe that. It’s not possible that their well reasoned policies that fuck over large swaths of humanity might be wrong is it?
KG
@Chris: the Euro survives as long as the EU survives. The problem is the EU isn’t really a union, it’s barely a confederation, even though its structured as a union
lojasmo
@efgoldman:
Learned behavior requires introspection and intellectual prowess.
Cornerstone possesses neither.
PeakVT
@jrg: Germany isn’t bailing out Greece. It’s bailing out its own damn banks, which lent too much money to the Greeks at too low interest rates over the past decade. This chart basically summarizes the problem.
Mnemosyne
@Xenos:
To be fair, the German people had very little to do with the takeover by the Nazis — not surprisingly, it was a plot by German conservatives who thought they could control Hitler. Whoops.
Corner Stone
@lojasmo: Oh Christ, no. No!
Please don’t hunt me down and kill me and my family!
For the love of Jesus Christ please fixate your violent tendencies to “go postal” elsewhere! Please get help before you get officially reprimanded and suspended from your work again!
srv
@Corner Stone: You know the Dijon disappeared at exactly the same time as Stuck did.
I couldn’t stop thinking of Two Bottles of Relish. I wonder when John last went into the basement. Tunch has many secrets.
Xenos
@Ruckus: In the case of Germany, it is not really correct to call them conservatives. It is more of a cultural issue, whereby speculation is strongly tamped down in the German economy and wealth is strongly redistributed (especially with the expenses of reunification). German social values are part of a social contract, though, where if you do not conform to social mores about work and thrift, then, well, fuck off.
The Germans are applying these values to the Greeks, Cypriots, and Spanish because these countries ‘chose’ speculation rather than honest business over the last decade. And Germans seem to be unaware that Germany’s manipulation of the Euro economy for their own purposes created the scenario where rational actors in the periphery economies were much better off by speculating rather than being nice exemplars of Germanic values, so they feel little guilt about this.
jrg
@PeakVT: Just out of curiosity, what’s the proposed solution here? Compel the Germans to buy Greek debt? If it’s that attractive, why don’t you start a fund?
jl
@KG:
” the Euro survives as long as the EU survives. ”
huh, what? I don’t see how that is true. The Euro is part of a monetary union with a single currency. The European Union is a trade union. Those are very different things.
The Euro monetary union requires a much stronger European Union trade union with much more integrated labor and financial markets and fiscal governance first.
Without a Euro (monetary union), the European Union (trade union) can be much more flexible in how much economic and social integration occurs and how fast.
The Euro is a gimmick on top the European Union. It is not needed, and if it can be ended without a financial disaster, the European Union can chug along, and probably make (edit: more and faster) progress with less trouble.
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
Yep. Fascism was the European elites’ own Southern Strategy, gone horribly right when the loons slipped off the leash and went berserk.
mai naem
When the rich do criminal sheet they get an agreement
http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/mcinerneydefendsdpas05072013/
This sheet makes me sick. Some black guy holding up the 7-11 because he doesn’t have a job and needs to maintain his cheap lifestyle would never ever get a non prosecution agreement but,hell,lie about safety conditions in a mine which leads to tens of people dying, you get a big fat fine and no prison time.
Ruckus
@Xenos:
They may not be conservatives like we think of in the US but they are conservative in the traditional sense. A bit more sane than ours of course, at least where Germans are concerned but the ruling party is about a particular life, as they envision it for everyone else. As long as it sort of works people don’t see the downsides. When it stops working(like now)…
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
Except for the substantial minority who voted for them, and the large majority who sat back and did nothing when they ignored the constitution and instituted authoritarian rule. Lots and lots of Germans were fine with the Nazis until it was way too late to do anything.
srv
@KG: As is the US.
@jl: The likes of Thugman have talked about a Euro A and Euro B. Obama could follow suit and propose the Amero for the south.
scav
@KG: Entirely funny how there was the EU, European Common Market et cetera long before there were Euros. Must have been a collective hallucination. As is not everyone in the Market using the Euro.
PeakVT
@jrg: Either more fiscal transfers and higher inflation, or a dissolution of the currency union would fix the problem.
Roger Moore
@jrg:
Require the ECB to set policies that benefit the whole Eurozone rather than just Germany. Maybe, just maybe, treat inflation below their 2% target as seriously as inflation above it.
Chris
@Ruckus:
Germany today kind of reminds me of America in the fifties and sixties. Strong social/community ethic and strong institutions (regulatory, redistributive, labor) imposes sharp limits on the 1%ers’ ability to screw over their fellow citizens, but they make up for it by screwing over people in smaller, less well protected countries. Though bank debt and EU regulations are a less crude, more sophisticated way to go about it than the American way using CIA coups and friendly dictators.
Roger Moore
@Chris:
The Germans even have their own ethnic underclass that somehow gets left out of discussions of how great their system is.
jl
@srv:
“Obama could follow suit and propose the Amero for the south.”
Maybe he will. An Amero-tyranny would blot out all the other scandals and problems, both real, imagined, and ginned up by GOP hacks.
Fox would welcome back Glen Beck, and if he survived the shock, Alex would be in seventh heaven.
Xenos
@Chris: Like the US in the 50s, there is a sizeable racial minority that is not considered part of the real country, and which is not allowed to integrate fully into social and political life.
Cacti
@Mnemosyne:
Que?
The NSDAP won the largest number of seats by far in the 1932 Reichstag elections, which put them in a position to form a majority coalition government with the DNVP.
Corner Stone
@Chris: There’s not a country born that hasn’t tried the proven formula of fucking over the masses to benefit the 1%’ers.
It works for a while.
I’m personally wondering when the Second French Revolution is going to occur, and willing to lay down money to bet that it happens before any such American revolt.
PeakVT
@Roger Moore: Inflation in the “core” countries needs to be 3% or 4% or even 5% for several years, not just above 2%. I don’t know what the figure is now, but a few years ago wages in places like Greece and Portugal were 30-40% too high relative to their productivity. “Internal adjustment” aka mass unemployment plus wage deflation has reduced the difference since then.
Corner Stone
@Xenos: Ask Espania about the Basque or the Moroccans. Or the Gypsies, or the…
Corner Stone
I’m kind of curious to see if the French survive their tax debacle.
Xenos
@Corner Stone: Second French Revolution? Hollande is not pulling things off very well lately. You think there is a public support for revolution?
Ruckus
@Chris:
Roger beat me to it. But I’m going to ask a question of anyone – what country of any size or modern economy doesn’t have an underclass they constantly fuck over, be they poor or different nationality?
Corner Stone
@Xenos: I wouldn’t bet against it at this point.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Corner Stone:
It comforts me that the point of my first comment failed to so much as graze you.
scav
@Xenos: I’ve memories of my French prof explaining in full Gallic intellectual detail exactly how the current republic could unzip like a stripper’s costume at a critical moment. ‘spose we could hope for that instead of full man the barricades blood in les sillons event. They’ve also got the practice of revolving republics down to an art.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
The Basques are at least citizens in their country of birth, and their language is officially recognized within the Basque country.
Corner Stone
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Good. Glad I could help.
Chris
@Corner Stone:
Well, do recall that change comes from the top as readily as the bottom in France. The first four republics all fell to military government (the fourth one only got lucky because De Gaulle was interested in building another republic, not a dictatorship). Either event seems unlikely right now, but if it happened it could as easily be a coup as a revolution.
Chris
@Ruckus:
Sadly, can’t think of any. An argument could be made that human nature means it’ll never happen.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Roger Moore: Now it is. For years, both Basque and Catalan were essentially banned in Spain.
Roger Moore
@Ruckus:
Does Korea have a substantial underclass that’s constantly getting screwed? I don’t know of one, but that may just be ignorance on my part.
Ruckus
@Chris:
Canada?
New Zealand?
Can’t think of a country in Europe, South America, Asia, the Middle East, Africa, other than possibly Canada, North and Central America.
Roger Moore
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
Yes, so Spain is showing real improvement in their treatment of minorities. I guess Germany is doing better than they were 70 years ago, but that’s not a very impressive standard of comparison.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
I thought about South Korea being one but I seem to recall they weren’t real happy with some people from other Asian countries. Maybe I’m wrong and/or they have gotten over it.
Still, it’s a pretty short list.
Some people hold grievances, real or imagined, for centuries. Of course sometimes the grievances are very, very real. But after a few centuries maybe it’s time to let it go.
Roger Moore
@Ruckus:
They’ve historically treated the First Nations atrociously, and even the Quebecois have a lot of grievances. They may be better than average, but I don’t think the classify as lacking a traditionally dumped on minority.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
The question mark was because I couldn’t remember if they still had major problems or not.
We seem to be narrowing it down to not fucking many.
Mnemosyne
@Cacti:
And yet they never had more than about 34% of the seats. Hitler was handed his power by Hindenburg because other conservatives thought they could get Hitler to do their bidding.
The Enabling Act of 1933 was much more instrumental in giving Hitler unlimited power than any election. According to Wikipedia, Hitler pressed Hindenburg to sign the act precisely because the Nazis had failed to gain a majority in the recent election.
Yatsuno
@Roger Moore: Same with New Zealand and the Maori. Maori right have really only been recognised within the last 20 years or so.
Anne Laurie
@Roger Moore:
IIUC, the South Koreans subcontract ‘screwed-over underclass’ to the military cadre running North Korea. It’s homier that way.
Koreans get to be the screwed-over underclass in Japan, of course.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
Oh, I’m not saying the German people have no responsibility for going along with everything. Just pointing out that the Nazis never had a majority when Germany had free elections and that they were handed their power by conservatives within the German government, not through the popular vote.
Ruckus
@Yatsuno:
I know that New Zealand has been trying very hard to recognize the Maori and make sure they have equal status. And when I was there ten years ago they seemed to be making remarkable progress. That’s why I listed them, but with a question mark.
No country and people can make up for the crap that went on in the past but they can change the present and work on the future. New Zealand is the only country that seems to be doing this to any extent. I’d be very glad to hear of more. Of course there are so many ways to be bigoted that I don’t expect a lot of progress any time soon. Although we seem to be gathering a lot of steam in the gay rights area here in the US and I’d say any progress is a lot better than none.
Loviatar, Firebagger
So Obots, does President Obama bear any responsibility for the “excess” suicides caused by his backing the implementation of austerity?
Ruckus
@Loviatar, Firebagger:
I see that dense has found a resting place. Now if it would just give it a rest.
Interrobang
@Roger Moore: We’re still treating the First Nations people atrociously.
As far as I’m concerned, the Quebecois grievances are basically in their heads at this point, and are essentially similar to American wannabe Confederates and their Lost Cause mythos, except the Quebecois are still pissed that they lost the Battle of the Plains of Abraham.
They have more explicit constitutional rights than any other linguistic minority group*, the country is officially bilingual in their language — except they’re allowed to have French-only signage in Quebec — and they have basically a completely different system of provincial governance than any other province, based on French common law instead of English. Not only that, but they’re statistically overrepresented in the federal government and the military. So, yeah, not exactly a dumped on underclass there.
Not only that, but there are actual minority French-speakers elsewhere than Quebec who barely make a blip on the national radar screen.
If we were feeling particularly mean, we should collectively offer to let them trade places with the natives, whom we do actively kick around, and did, at one point long before Canada became a country, actively enslave. (We didn’t do black slavery to any noticeable extent; we enslaved natives instead. Go us…gotta be different!)
___________
* They’ll try to tell you they’re also a religious minority, but Catholics are the largest single Christian bloc, and there are French-Canadian Catholics all over the place.
JustRuss
I’ve noticed there’s a significant overlap between torture justifiers and austerity lovers. Make of that what you will.