• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

The snowflake in chief appeared visibly frustrated when questioned by a reporter about egg prices.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Bark louder, little dog.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Not all heroes wear capes.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

All hail the time of the bunny!

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Books are my comfort food!

American history and black history cannot be separated.

In my day, never was longer.

Mobile Menu

  • Seattle Meet-up Post
  • 2025 Activism
  • Targeted Political Fundraising
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2025 Activism
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Sports / The center cannot hold

The center cannot hold

by DougJ|  May 18, 20132:41 pm| 67 Comments

This post is in: Sports

FacebookTweetEmail

Random sports question: who was the last great center to come into the NBA (I realize Duncan is still playing but he entered the league years ago)? Yao Ming? How come there aren’t any anymore?

Update. Per the comments, I guess the answer is Dwight Howard. I don’t think of him as having enough of a post game to be a great center (he mostly gets by on pure strength) but he has scored a lot of points some seasons.

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Eggs Bettydict
Next Post: Sometimes an Umbrella Is Just an Umbrella »

Reader Interactions

67Comments

  1. 1.

    Kevin

    May 18, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Love him or hate him, Dwight Howard. At his prime, pre injury and pre douche, he was better than Yao.

  2. 2.

    PsiFighter37

    May 18, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    I would venture to say Dwight Howard, but he’s got to get fully healthy again before he gets that title. That said, definitely was more known for his defense than his offensive proficiency. The last big dominant offensive centers came into the league in the 90s…the NBA is a much smaller and faster league now.

  3. 3.

    BGinCHI

    May 18, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    The center in “The White Shadow” was pretty good.

  4. 4.

    quannlace

    May 18, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    Ooh, we’re talking about something besides Hollandaise. Unfortunately, I know bupkis about sports.

  5. 5.

    Kevin

    May 18, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Dwight did lead his team to the finals, and he rebounds and plays great D (well, played until his back injury, he was a monster. If his health gets better and he gets back to that level, he is one of the 5 best players in the league…and i’d still not want his whining personality on my team…and i root for the Raptors…)

  6. 6.

    Hill Dweller

    May 18, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Howard is a good rebounder and defensive player, but he has zero offensive skills.

    Duncan is a PF.

    Marc Gasol is good, but he isn’t a dominant offensive player.

  7. 7.

    Davebo

    May 18, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Yaou Ming doesn’t qualify as a great center IMO and I’m a Rockets fan.

    At 17 points per game average I don’t think Howard does either.

    Would we have to go all the way back to Olajuwon?

  8. 8.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    My knowledge about basketball is pretty sketchy. Much like Kinsley’s grasp of economics. I can has basketball column in TNR plz?

  9. 9.

    catclub

    May 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    How many years does it take to have: Wilt, Bill Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Bill Walton?

    Second tier: Ewing, Hakeem.

    Would Oden have been the latest, but his knees failed first?
    Bogut could be pretty impressive if healthy.
    Hibbert is no slouch. Hibbert with Kobe, rather than Hibbert with Paul George, could be pretty dangerous.
    Marc Gasol, likewise.

  10. 10.

    DougJ

    May 18, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    @Davebo:

    Ming scored 26 points a game one season, almost all in the low post. That’s a great center season at least.

  11. 11.

    DougJ

    May 18, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    @catclub:

    Hakeem is first tier, not second, otherwise I agree with your ranking.

  12. 12.

    catclub

    May 18, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    As a side thread, is it the case that less than dominant centers get laughed at the most?

    Kurt Rambis springs to mind.

  13. 13.

    Hill Dweller

    May 18, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    @catclub: I’d switch Hakeem and Walton on your tiers. Hakeem was the most skilled offensive center in NBA history, IMO. Injuries prevented Walton from ever reaching his potential.

  14. 14.

    catclub

    May 18, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    @DougJ: Not problem. I really know very little about 90’s era basketball. So I have little first hand knowledge of Hakeem.

  15. 15.

    Kevin

    May 18, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    @Davebo:

    No, Shaq came after Hakeem. And he was more dominant.

    I don’t think Howards PPG is enough to disqualify him as a great center. His defensive contributions were so great to his team that it made up for it.

  16. 16.

    DougJ

    May 18, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    @Hill Dweller:

    Hakeem was a great defender too.

  17. 17.

    Kevin

    May 18, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Hakeem was great all around. Too bad he came to my Raptors when he was a shell of his former self.

    And he got a bit lucky. Jordan doesn’t play baseball, I don’t think Hakeem gets a title. That helps his stature quite a bit. At the very least, you never hear Houston fans lamenting drafting him over Jordan the way Portland fans do. That’s what two titles will do for you.

  18. 18.

    John Walters

    May 18, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    The modern NBA game is extremely physically demanding. (See all the injuries in the playoffs this year.) I think we’ve reached the limits of what a very tall human body can take without breaking down. (See Yao Ming, Greg Oden, as well as Bogut and even Dwight Howard.) Almost every big man suffers from plantar fasciitis or back trouble sooner or later.

  19. 19.

    Goblue72

    May 18, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Iron Mike Webster.

    Oh wait, wrong sport.

  20. 20.

    Mark S.

    May 18, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    The centers I grew up watching were Hakeem, Shaq, Ewing, and David Robinson. Dwight Howard is nowhere near as good as any of those guys were.

  21. 21.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    @catclub:

    Second tier: Ewing, Hakeem.

    Hakeem second tier?? You are out of your blipping mind.

  22. 22.

    PsiFighter37

    May 18, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    I should elaborate that while Howard scores points, he’s very much a pick-and-roll kind of finisher. He’s not going to post up and kick your ass like Ewing, Hakeem, or the Admiral would back in the day.

    Just a different game now. I would say Yao and Tim Duncan were the last true centers who were really good. Pau Gasol was at a pretty elite level a few years ago, but he didn’t have the physicality to punish people in the paint like the older guys did.

  23. 23.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    @Mark S.: Hakeem destroyed both Shaq and David Robinson in the span of one season. Just total domination.
    Anyone who’s saying Hakeem wasn’t first tier or dominant never watched him play.
    They listed him at 7′ but he was 6’10” with the footwork of a soccer goalie. Just brilliant low post.
    Who did Dwight go to for lessons when he wanted to get better and try to develop some semblance of offense? No, not Hitler.

  24. 24.

    Kevin

    May 18, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    @Mark S.:

    I’d say Dwight healthy was better than Robinson and Ewing for sure. Nostalgia colours our views, but Dwight was really damn good, and if the last two seasons were due to his bad back/shoulder (very likely), and he comes back healthy, he makes any team a contender.

  25. 25.

    jon

    May 18, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    With the three-point shot, the value of a center has diminished greatly. Add the fact that anyone is allowed to travel as long as a dunk is involved, and suddenly the big guys in the middle are just going to get fouls called against them. The game has changed, for better and worse.

  26. 26.

    Hill Dweller

    May 18, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    @Kevin:

    I’d say Dwight healthy was better than Robinson and Ewing for sure.

    No way.

  27. 27.

    John S.

    May 18, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    @catclub:

    Ewing second tier? You’re out of your gourd. He was part of a group of the last great centers the NBA has seen. Nobody even comes close to the big men from the late 70s to the early 90s.

  28. 28.

    Haydnseek

    May 18, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    @catclub: Laugh all you want. It’s Rambis with the rings. Oh, and FYI. Rambis wasn’t a center. Other than that, great post!

  29. 29.

    John PM

    May 18, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    Bill Wennington and Luc Longly!

  30. 30.

    catclub

    May 18, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    @Haydnseek: ” Rambis wasn’t a center.”

    That is how un-dominant a center he was!

  31. 31.

    Haydnseek

    May 18, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    @catclub: LOL! Got me!

  32. 32.

    Tbone

    May 18, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Shaq

  33. 33.

    Console

    May 18, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    The only guy that could ever hope to be as dominant as Shaq is Dwight Howard. But there is still good talent out there. Brook Lopez, Andrew Bynum.

    Really, all the tall offensive power house “centers” play PF. Garnett, Nowitzki, Pau Gasol. Each of those dudes are 7 feet tall.

  34. 34.

    khead

    May 18, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    @jon:

    My judgement may be clouded by my career as a playground and rec league chucker but I agree with this. Not as much need for a big man with post moves and an ability to play with their back to the basket.

  35. 35.

    Tokyokie

    May 18, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    @jon: I agree with that sentiment. Also, probably as a result of those developments, a lot of the more agile big men these days seem to be more concerned with their outside games than excelling down low in the scrum, with Dirk Nowitzski being the most prominent example.

  36. 36.

    James E. Powell

    May 18, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    @John S.:

    Ewing’s rep suffers because he didn’t win an NBA championship and because there are a lot of people who never saw him play

  37. 37.

    Haydnseek

    May 18, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    @Console: Andrew Bynum? Really? I’ve seen fucking statues that were superior to Bynum, but then, they had healthier knees, not to mention a far superior attitude and will to win. He was a bust with the Lakers and now the Sixers are wondering what came over them when they made a deal for this stiff…..

  38. 38.

    Lurking Canadian

    May 18, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    @catclub: Rambis could have put up Kareem’s numbers and we still would have laughed at him. That dude’s glasses were fugly.

  39. 39.

    Lurking Canadian

    May 18, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    @jon: It is interesting that you say this. Back when Shaq was stomping everything into the ground, I remember reading something (Sports Illustrated, or somewhere like that) lamenting that now the big men had completely taken over the game and we’d never again see the skill and finesse of Johnson, Jordan and Bird.

    I predict that it’ll come back around. Kobe will get old, LeBron will start having trouble with his knees and some Brobdignagian kid will show up and start eating everybody’s lunch. Probably at fucking Duke.

  40. 40.

    Haydnseek

    May 18, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    @Lurking Canadian: Nah, he was just ahead of his time. See every hipster lately….

  41. 41.

    trollhattan

    May 18, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    @DougJ:

    Was lucky enough to watch the Rockets and Yao from floor level, and he may be the most impressively large and athletic human I’ve ever seen. He was relatively healthy at the time and showed some athletic moves, as well as being a real defensive force.

    Because it was during the Shaq era I don’t think he ever got his due and of course, injuries took their toll. I never saw Shaq (tickets for the hated Lakers being unpossible during that era) so can’t compare the two; only know that Yao is a human sequoia even in a forest of giant men.

    If he weren’t such a headcase, DeMarcus Cousins would be an all-star scoring center, although not a dominant defender (he’s a pretty small center). Alas, I don’t know if there’s a coach who can reel him in to embrace his potential.

  42. 42.

    Gin & Tonic

    May 18, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    @James E. Powell: I saw Patrick play, and I’m a Knickerbockers fan from way way back, but I’m OK with him in the second tier compared to the others listed. But then again, I’m old, and first tier to me contains three guys only.

  43. 43.

    Haydnseek

    May 18, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    @trollhattan: As I remember, Yao also had a nice medium-range jumper. You had to defend him all over the floor. I’m no Houston fan, but I enjoyed watching him early in his career.

  44. 44.

    Haydnseek

    May 18, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Don’t tell me, let me guess. Wilt, Bill Russell, and Kareem. That’s my top tier, but then I’m old as well……

  45. 45.

    Montysano

    May 18, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Anyone who’s saying Hakeem wasn’t first tier or dominant never watched him play.
    They listed him at 7′ but he was 6’10″ with the footwork of a soccer goalie.

    Absolutely. No other big man had his speed, grace and agility.

    Here’s a related question: how come no one uses the hook shot anymore? In the hands of someone like Abdul-Jabbar, it’s impossible to defend. He made a career out of it.

  46. 46.

    Keith G

    May 18, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    Watching Olajuwon up close for a few seasons (good friend with corporate tickets) was a great thrill. In the highlight “reel” linked below, I was at the Summit for play #10. His speed at making that play blew. my. mind. One of the best period. Certainly the last great one. Note his quickness on his characteristic spin move, as well as immaculate timing on blocks

    Hakeem highlights

  47. 47.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Because it was during the Shaq era

    Shaq made Yao look like a willow tree in the wind. Shaq absolutely crushed Yao, mainly because Yao had no ass to him (underweight), and the refs liked it that way.

  48. 48.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    @Keith G: I think people don’t get how freakishly fast Hakeem was. Not “for his size” but just straight ass fast/quick.
    The Dream Shake and the drop step fallaway were both “invented/perfected” by Hakeem.
    Completely unstoppable inside 18 feet except for the hack attacks coaches were forced to deploy.

  49. 49.

    Lurking Canadian

    May 18, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    OT but I need help. I accidentally pressed the button to turn off “Mobile Theme” on my iPhone. Is there a way to get it back?

  50. 50.

    Corner Stone

    May 18, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    @Keith G: Damn. Those #2 and #1 highlights are just jaw dropping.
    Allah be praised!

  51. 51.

    p.a.

    May 18, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    @Goblue72: are you flirting with Cole?

  52. 52.

    mr.peabody

    May 18, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Shaq was the best most recently. Dikembe Mutombo was a a great defensive center.

  53. 53.

    PsiFighter37

    May 18, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    @Corner Stone: I don’t think there are any big men who could pull those off.

    Not only that, but those last 2 are on Ewing and Robinson…imagine if he played against today’s center. I think he’d be putting up some disgusting paint moves against the undersized centers that play today.

    Also, too, that highlight where he blocks the ball and knocks it into the backcourt…awesome.

  54. 54.

    Keith G

    May 18, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    @Corner Stone: I know it sounds like a hack (and homer to boot), but watching Hakeem for all those years spoiled me for other tall men. More often than not, he was the best all around athlete on the floor. No one since can match the size of his tool box.

  55. 55.

    gene108

    May 18, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    If you’re calling Tim Duncan a center, I’d have to say Kevin Love is pretty damn impressive.

    EDIT: When healthy of course.

  56. 56.

    trollhattan

    May 18, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    @Keith G:
    I remember somebody asking Walton around the time Hakeem was coming into the league who he’d build a team around, and he named Olajuwon without hesitation. Great centers know what it takes.

  57. 57.

    jesse helms' ghost

    May 18, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    Hank Finkel, Greg Kite, Rick Robey.

  58. 58.

    p.a.

    May 18, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    Hank Finkel, Greg Kite, Rick Robey. “The Jesse Helms guide to great NBA centers.”

  59. 59.

    trollhattan

    May 18, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    BTW, I still hold Russell (or Morgan Freeman, as his buddy Stephanopoulos likes to call
    him) personally responsible for Pervis Ellison. Darn you to heck, Bill!

  60. 60.

    Bonnie

    May 18, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    The last truly great center in the NBA is Kareem Abdul Jabbar. No one does a sky hook any more.

  61. 61.

    Ailuridae

    May 18, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    The most recent great center to come into the NBA is Andre Drummond.

    He was laughably misused last year but he’s absolutely a great player

  62. 62.

    jake the snake

    May 18, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    Great centers come and go. Usually there are only one or two in the league at a time.
    Sometimes there is a gap between the great centers.

  63. 63.

    dp

    May 18, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    @Hill Dweller: This is correct.

  64. 64.

    GR

    May 18, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    For me, it’s Shaq if we are looking at all-time-great caliber, otherwise Dwight Howard if we just mean dominant. I agree with others that this is largely a result of guys like Duncan and Pao playing the 4 instead of the 5.

  65. 65.

    eddie blake

    May 18, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    the rule changes that they’ve slowly brought into effect, starting with the hand-checking rule in 95, have made the game a slasher-shooter-chucker game and not a boxing-out-physical grind… it will be very hard for anyone to play with the intensity of a shaq or a ewing or a chamberlain without getting flagrant twos called every time they post up.

  66. 66.

    billB

    May 18, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    As was said above, the best bigs want to play PF now. Look at our Blazer baby-stud, LaMarshmellow Aldredge here in Portland. The man has the size and bulk of a center, good footwork, and for a brief spell he chose to go inside and scored like h^ll. But he is sooo pampered and wants to hang out in the corner like a ?SF. As many of us say in PDX, ‘Man Up, LA’.

  67. 67.

    DLew On Roids

    May 18, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    @John Walters: Or, similarly, we’ve reached a point where being seven feet tall isn’t enough on its own to dominate any more. There are lots of 6′ 8″ athletes now who can shove around and outrun a 7′ 1″ stiff who’s only playing because of his height (one recent study found that probably about 1/6 of 7′ tall American men of NBA age play pro basketball).

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

On The Road - Christopher Mathews - Iceland: Season's Fleeting 3
Image by Christopher Mathews (6/13/25)

PA Supreme Court At Risk

We did it!

We raised the 25,000 for The Civics Center, and with the external matches, that gives them $60,000 for this Spring effort!

You guys rock!

Recent Comments

  • Sally on Open Thread: Tracking the Protests (Jun 14, 2025 @ 6:13am)
  • David_C on Here I Am Again, With Another Positive Message (Jun 14, 2025 @ 6:13am)
  • NotMax on Saturday Morning Open Thread: No Kings (Jun 14, 2025 @ 5:30am)
  • Tony Jay on Saturday Morning Open Thread: No Kings (Jun 14, 2025 @ 5:30am)
  • Baud on Open Thread: Tracking the Protests (Jun 14, 2025 @ 5:13am)

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
War in Ukraine
Donate to Razom for Ukraine

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)
Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Social Media

Balloon Juice
WaterGirl
TaMara
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
DougJ NYT Pitchbot
mistermix

Keeping Track

Legal Challenges (Lawfare)
Republicans Fleeing Town Halls (TPM)
21 Letters (to Borrow or Steal)
Search Donations from a Brand

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2025 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!