K-Thug (via) is onto something here:
It was obvious during the runup to the Iraq war that what was going on in the minds of many hawks — and not just the neocons — was not so much a deep desire to drop lots of bombs and kill lots of people (although they were OK with that) as a deep desire to be seen as people who were willing to Do What Has to be Done. Men who have never risked, well, anything relished the chance to look in the mirror and see Winston Churchill looking back.
Actually, I suspect that even the torture thing had less to do with sadism than with the desire to look tough.
And the austerian impulse is pretty much the same thing, except that in this case the mild-mannered pundits want to look in the mirror and see Paul Volcker.
War is manly, austerity is manly. Sanctions and inspections are for girls and wimps; Keynesianism is literally a homo theory.
Perhaps the world was ever so, perhaps we’re going through a particular crisis of masculinity, what with castrating Madame Speakers and an male aging population that (if NFL ads are any indication) often has trouble getting the old Evinrude cranking. Media and political types are likely to frame their misguided machisimo in terms of seriousness and historical importance. Here’s a classic quote (from serious person Jonathan Alter about his old Crimson buddy, neocon heroin addict Eric Breindel):
“We missed the war to save the world, and we even missed the civil-rights movement. We didn’t get our chance to be heroic. We were left with the table scraps. But Eric, at least, was determined to make those scraps the most nourishing and the most useful meal he could.”
It’s about feeding their inner tough guy, not doing something for the outside world.
Citizen_X
McKinley Morganfield libel!
Anoniminous
Hard to be a manly-man when running to the store every four hours to replenish the Depends supply.
Just Some Fuckhead
Wait. These rightwinger motherfuckers have ALL THE MUSCLES AND THEY STILL NEED TO PROVE THEIR MASCULINITY?
WHAT THE FUCK?
hildebrand
Which dovetails nicely with MoDo continuing to bang away at the Obambi nonsense, as well as the standard Republican freak-out about GLBT issues – if we could simply get all of these people laid our problems might be over.
Patricia Kayden
How did destroying Iraq boost their manliness? Attack a country with nuclear weapons and we can talk.
Chris
I think we’ve been going through a crisis of masculinity since Vietnam.
We’ve always had a lot of arrogance and aggressiveness in our political DNA (normal for a superpower), but losing Vietnam injected a whole dose of insecurity into the mix, and we’ve been trying to compensate for it ever since.
Anya
Weird, when you search for Eric Breindel, “People also search for” suggestions include: Frederick Vanderbilt Field and Lally Weymouth. I don’t see the link.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Chris: lolvietwut?
azlib
Testosterone should be a contorlled substance.
the Conster
As a middle aged woman, all I can say to this after perusing my male cohort is a hearty “no fucking shit”. Too bad there isn’t a procedure that’s the equivalent of a boob job for men and there wouldn’t be all this pathetic acting out, but maybe that’s what the whole gun thing is about.
Frankensteinbeck
I believe K-Thug is mostly correct. Of course, many of them are cruel or filled with hate, and it ties into their use of abusive thinking. Technically these are all different things, but they feed each other and begin one big knot of corrosive evil. Hell, doesn’t Sully go on about this at length? They cannot believe, just cannot believe, that helping people can be responsible. Only hurting people shows you’re mature and doing the right thing.
@Chris:
After observing Ted Nugent, I think Vietnam draft dodging created a lot of masculine insecurity. Some of the dodgers seem to be carrying this giant ‘I must prove I am not a coward with violent fantasies and applauding war’ thing.
Mnemosyne
@Patricia Kayden:
Bullying has always been seen as “manly.” Think of the old classic Charles Atlas ads, where the guy bulks up to get revenge on the bigger guy who was bullying him.
Anya
@hildebrand: I agree with Robert Gibbs, MoDo columns about Obama are so predictable. Snarky nickname, a 90s pop culture reference, calling him aloof and disinterested, then pepper every paragraph with a reference of how girly he is. I don’t know why people read her?
Suffern ACE
@Patricia Kayden: You see, I think the fairer sex complicates matters. If you want them to stop, you need to say, “wow, I’m impressed.” Otherwise, you’re just goading the men to go kill more people.
catclub
@Frankensteinbeck: and here I was thinking there would be no thread on DSM-V.
MattF
I’m reading a new book “The Sleepwalkers” by Christopher Clark, about the runup to WWI, where Clark comments about a change in what was considered ‘masculine’ at the end of the 19th century. ‘Austerity’ was not considered a particularly masculine trait before then.
catclub
@hildebrand: Just remember:
1. Bambi was a male.
2. He kicked ass.
cyntax
One person’s hero is another person’s asshole. I might be paraphrasing but I’m pretty sure that’s the point of the Aeneid.
Cassidy
@the Conster:
Actually…it is. Think about when assault rifles and semi-automatic handguns started to gain in popularity. The fare coming out of hollywood at the time was the lone, action hero. Skip forward to today and the “epitome” of maliness (in our micro warrior societies) is the Special Operations people. Take a look at what our “manly” gun owners want; they don’t want Vietnam era M-16’s. No, they want modern M-4’s with all the gadgets and gizmos and doodads. They associate those things with the Navy SEALs, or the tough guy flavor of the week, and they think that owning the same style of weapon somehow makes them comparable just by association. The delsuion these people are under is amazing. it’d be sad and funny, if they weren’t so moronically dangerous.
Pooh
@the Conster: Monster trucks are too expensive, yo.
Cris (without an H)
I don’t want a chance to be heroic. I would be perfectly happy if there was no need for heroism.
Nothing to kill or die for, as the man said. (Then he got shot in the back.)
Violet
What a bunch of men with small dicks. Compensation galore. They think we don’t know, but we know.
Eric U.
I was sitting next to my bicycle at a convenience store, and this guy pulls up in the most useless pickup ever. Semi-style pipes through the bed, big tires, lift kit, the works. Then a guy pulls up in an ancient F-150, definitely rather drive around in that except they all smell like smoke
Mnemosyne
@Frankensteinbeck:
/putting on amateur psychologist hat
Sometimes that comes from having grown up in a family with authoritarian parents who believed in corporal punishment. I’m only spanking you for your own good, that kind of thing. G’s nephew grew up with an abusive dad (when the guy wasn’t in prison, that is) and he had to get a lot of therapy to unlearn the lesson that you get people to do what you want by hitting them.
So I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that most of the people who think we should “throw a crappy little country up against the wall once in a while” came from abusive homes where they learned that that it’s normal and right for the person with the most power to physically shove everyone else around.
/taking off amateur psychologist hat
Shakezula
Correction: It is manly to subject other people to war and austerity.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Cassidy: My gun-loving aunt coulda just stopped shaving her legs and she woulda prolly kept herself from blowing off two fingers and a toe.
raven
@Cassidy: I’ll take my 14 back.
NobodySpecial
@Chris:
Korea. Evidently the ‘Greatest Generation’ gave the Korea vets a lot of shit for only getting a ‘draw’ in THEIR war, to the point where no one wanted to recognize it.
They like their teams full of assholes and undefeated forever, preferably all by blowouts. Anything less is ‘everyone gets a trophy ARGLARGLARRRRRG’ nonsense.
raven
@NobodySpecial: There were an awful lot of WWII dudes in Korea too!
KG
@Just Some Fuckhead: I’m a fairly big dude, 6′ tall, 250 lbs (or so), and well trained in martial arts… I’ve never once been in a fight, or found it necessary to “prove my masculinity.” I’ve always thought that if you were secure enough in yourself, it would show to the rest of the world. Usually the guys who feel they have something to prove aren’t very secure in themselves, which I sort of get, I was like that once too… when I was 14.
What makes these guys so dangerous is that they have externalized their issues. It’s not enough for them to prove their masculinity to themselves, they have to show it to everyone else. Externalizing insecurity isn’t healthy on an individual scale, doing it when you have the levers of power in a society like ours is flat out dangerous.
Violet
@Shakezula:
FTFY. Pretty much it’s about power and control over other people.
Just Some Fuckhead
@KG: You sound dreamy. What color are your eyes. Say blue.
Jager
In my business career there were always guys who always talked tough, “Let’s go in there and rip his balls off!” or “I really roughed up that bastard in the meeting today, didn’t I?” or “I’m going to kill that fucker the first chance I get!” All this macho crap was about going into a meeting or making a sales call for christsake. From guys who had never kicked an ass except in their imagination.
I worked for a guy, a little fucking bully, early in my career, who called me a “little fuck” during a meeting with a couple of other guys in the room. I stood up and lifted the front of his desk about 8 inchs off the floor and said, “What did you call me, you little prick?” He turned pale as a ghost and rolled his chair back against his credenza.He stuttered out, “Hey, hey you know me, I don’t mean half the shit I say.” I was hoping he’d retaliate, he didn’t and he modified his behavior. Never said a word about it to me or anyone else.
SatanicPanic
Would it be possible to recast the austerians as a bunch of nannies who want you to eat your arugula? I want Keynesian steak and dessert, because I’m an American.
srv
I’ve been working on the pecs since the post last week and already feel like bombing a country or two.
SatanicPanic
@Violet: Not always true. I have a right-wing friend who is well-endowed. I know this because he was always exposing himself to people.
Roger Moore
@Chris:
I don’t think it’s so much a crisis of masculinity as a crisis of empire. From 1898 through the 1970s, we were going all around the world taking over other countries’ colonies, overthrowing governments, and generally doing WTFWW, even when it cost a bunch of American lives. With Vietnam, the public finally got fed up and said it wasn’t worth wasting American lives on the far side of the world for something only dimly related to national security. The militarists have been fighting and refighting that point ever since. They’ve mostly worked on building a military that can fight on the far side of the world without costing a lot of American lives (DRONEZZZ!), but the militarists really don’t like being told that no, empire isn’t worth it.
Lurking Canadian
@SatanicPanic: They cast themselves that way. The Kinsley article was all about making people eat the damned asparagus, or broccoli or some other bitter green vegetable.
Frankensteinbeck
@SatanicPanic:
Masculine insecurity is so much bigger (no pun intended) a topic than genitalia size. I personally think a combination of occasional flashes of bisexual interest and the internalization of homophobic violence is the biggest issue. That is entirely my speculation, however.
Southern Beale
I have always believed that this infatuation with war is in many respects a nostalgia for World War II and all of the fantasies attendant with that. I don’t think you can underestimate the cultural impact Hollywood had regarding World War II. WWII was our first Movie War, it was the first time we had such a huge mass-media/entertainment component to war making. Hollywood was brought in to propagandize the war, demonize the enemy, and the lasting effect of that was to romanticize war. We’re still dealing with that today.
Vietnam came along and some of that was undone by the counter-culture, but I think every war since WWII has been an effort to recreate that romanticized view of war. Of everyone pulling together “for the duration” and sacrificing and all that.
What’s so fucking hilarious is that a lot of that was necessary (and happened) because Roosevelt nationalized our entire manufacturing sector for the war. Can you imagine people rationing gas and sugar today? Tyranny! Or the government taking over Ford Motors to make tanks for the war? This kind of massive transition from peacetime to war time economy required that kind of propaganda effort. But it’s so ironic that today every war is going to be that “good war.” And they never are, are they?
I mean crap I must have been 30 years old before I learned that WWII didn’t pull us out of the Great Depression.
Biscuits
’twas ever thus. It has always, always been about fragile masculinity. Always.
Roger Moore
@the Conster:
You mean this didn’t give you a clue?
Southern Beale
@Frankensteinbeck:
I always thought raging homophobes are that way because they’re afraid another man will treat them the same way they themselves treat women.
SatanicPanic
@Lurking Canadian: So liberals like Kinsley are in favor of the Broccoli mandate? That’s nefarious. Only answer- no austerity. (I’m spitballing a good counter argument here)
Southern Beale
@SatanicPanic:
LOL
raven
” demonize the enemy” Yea, how could we do that to them?
Steeplejack
@Southern Beale:
I thought World War II did end the Depression—not because it was a noble cause but because it was a massive government spending program that promoted full employment.
Cassidy
@raven: Well, that’s a much more manly rifle.
BUt, seriously, you’ve seen these pricks before. They want a particular weapon because it looks sexy and awesome, not because it’s the right tool for the job. It’s no diffferent than the shopper that has to have a Coach handbag.
raven
@Cassidy: Takes a lickin and keeps om tickin!
Frankensteinbeck
@Southern Beale:
No, I don’t think so at all. As an adolescent I was surrounded by the very overt threat of verbal abuse and the implicit threat of physical abuse for any male who was not seen as sufficiently manly. I envy those who didn’t face this, but I know that in some areas it was much, much worse than even what I dealt with. Homosexuality was seen as the epitome of this brutally punishable lack of masculinity. A lot of men grew up in very justified fear of this social pressure. You don’t need misogyny at ALL to explain violent homophobia.
Violet
@SatanicPanic: Ewww…creepy. Same problem (insecurity about size), manifesting in a different manner.
raven
@Cassidy: Oh yea. A wood stock is for us Woodstock guys!
Chris
@Roger Moore:
I think the disconnect in Vietnam was conscription.
Usually, we didn’t break out the draft unless there was a major conflict (Civil War, World War One, World War Two) to be fought. The people tolerated imperial ventures that benefited no one but the rich and connected, but not if they had to die for it themselves – they left that in the hands of the reduced all-volunteer-force that we maintained in between the major wars.
In Vietnam, they tried to mobilize and conscript society as if there was a major, existential, World War Two type of conflict under way, for a war that was actually closer to the Boxer Rebellion or the occupation of Haiti – something of dubious benefit that the public certainly didn’t want to die for.
I agree that it left a really bad taste for the neocons and that they’ve felt the need to wash it away ever since, though.
raven
@Chris: While lowering standards with Project 100,000 and giving deferments to nice honky college boys.
Tonal (visible) Crow
@Southern Beale:
Republicans and the DINOs who love them would fully support this move if it were done by a Republican President. They would also spend plenty of time blasting liberals as “unpatriotic unmanly cowards” for objecting, and our media would fall over themselves giving them air to do it. If, on the other hand, a Democratic President were to impose these mandates, the screeching about “sockialism” would never end.
Shorter: IOKIYAR.
SatanicPanic
@Violet: yeah, that’s true. I stopped hanging with him because really, maybe it was funny to pull out your junk in front of your friends when you’re six. When you’re an adult, not that funny.
Tonal (visible) Crow
@the Conster:
They could get chest implants and whole-body liposuction, but that would be kinda expensive, the implants would move, and the liposuction wouldn’t last, plus plastic surgery is gay. Or they could stop pigging out and get regular exercise, but that’s too hard. So they buy guns instead.
Persia
@Chris: Nah, it started with the Pill and women’s ability to decide who they wanted to fuck and/or have babies with. Masculinity’s been confused and reactive ever since.
Tonal (visible) Crow
@SatanicPanic:
Most Republicans stopped growing emotionally at around the age of 6.
fuckwit
This is it. This is the Unified WIngnut Theory. You ‘ve nailed it, head on, right here.
Gun nuts: small penis issue.
Austerians: small penis issue.
Racists: small penis issue.
Warmongers: small penis issue.
Homophobes: well, small penis issue, DUH!
Misogynists and patriarchists: fucking screamingly obvious small penis issue.
Religious fanatics: small penis issue (c.f. patriarchy above, the religions are patriarchies)
The right wing really is all about a crisis of masculinity. It’s a common thread through all of their crap.
It’s about old straight white christian men in particular. Losing their power, losing their privilege, and throwing a hissy fit over it.
Fuck, Michael Moore explained this theory in great detail in “Stupid White Men” in like 2001 or so. And people are finally really waking up to it now!
Right-wing idelogy is small-penis ideology. It’s the pencil-dick party.
Mnemosyne
@Southern Beale:
Actually, the propaganda during the war wasn’t nearly as harmful as the post-war propaganda that prevented people from questioning the war. The Best Years of Our Lives won seven Academy Awards, but it’s been thrown down the memory hole because conservatives didn’t like the message (even though it ultimately ends on a censor-required optimistic note). Another one to check out is They Were Expendable, which was made by John Ford at the end of the war. The title says it all.
But once the HUAC started investigating “communist infiltration,” any questioning of the purpose and costs of the recent war had to be hushed up lest you be put on a blacklist or greylist.
'Niques
@fuckwit:
Which is another reason for them to hate Obama … not just the age-old belief that AA men are well endowed, but that his white mother preferred a darker skinned mate.
Lazslo Anton Zapotec
At last week’s 2013 CEO Summit hosted by Microsoft and Steve Ballmer there was a rather disturbing discussion topic presented. The description in the Microsoft information kit reads:
Am I too cynical in suspecting that few, if any, people at the summit defended democracy?
mclaren
The problem with this reasoning is that there is literally nothing as cowardly and contemptible as a torturer.
Nobody looks at the BTK killer and says “Wow, that’s a real man!” They look at assholes like Jeffrey Dahmer and the BTK killer and think “What a gutless pissant coward.”
So I don’t buy the tough-guy logic. These people are sadists, pure and simple.
The torture tapes disappeared because Cheney and Dubya use them to masturbate to.
Tehanu
@Jager:
It’s worse in Hollywood. Hubby Dearest once overheard an extremely well-known talk show host — I won’t say who — talking to his alte kocker buddies at a Beverly Hills deli. “How’s the competition from Oprah?” one asked. The host replied, “Are you kidding? I killed her in Chicago, I murdered her in Cleveland, and I destroyed her in Detroit!” The other guy says, “But what about Cincinnati?” “Cincinnati? I cut off her balls in Cincinnati!”