Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”

… gradually, and then suddenly.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

This really is a full service blog.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

“Loving your country does not mean lying about its history.”

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Giving in to doom is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

You are here: Home / Science & Technology / Tornado Hell

Reader Interactions

256Comments

  1. 1.

    Trollhattan

    I have a ton of snark I’ll holster while it’s still going on. I hope folks there have a way to be safe while this is still ongoing. Sheesh.

  4. 4.

    ? Martin

    Well, not sure much of OKC actually was hit by the tornado, but a lot of stuff around it was.

    Matters to the folks that live in and around OKC…

  5. 5.

    quannlace

    It’s horrific. And kind of bizzare watching the news coverage. For one thing, kept thinking that the video coming from that one chopper guy, should you really be up in a helicopter that close to a monster tornado? Also, almost surrealistic that they were tracking it from street to street.

  6. 6.

    ? Martin

    @quannlace: Being in a helicopter is a relatively safe place. They can outrun the storms, and they can see the storms for quite a long distance. Lots of people on the ground can’t see the storms until they’re quite close.

  7. 7.

    BGinCHI

    Sooner grunt????

    Anyone hear if he’s all right? And Jesus, he was just finishing his new house!

    Dude, check in!

  8. 8.

    MosesZD

    @David Koch: And don’t forget that they’ll need to deny climate change which predicts more and bigger tornadoes. More and bigger storms. More and bigger droughts. All of which scientists are now saying is happening.

  10. 10.

    David Koch

    I realize this is tragic, but we can’t go wobbly and take our focus off what is important, namely susan rice’s benghaz1i sunday show appearance, 9 months ago.

  12. 12.

    JPL

    John, Is there a way you can text Sooner. For some reason, I think he is closer to Tulsa, but I’m not sure.

  13. 13.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Keep repeating, over and over again:

    “Global warming is a fraud! Global warming is a fraud! Global warming is a fraud!”

    Then click your heels three times, and you’re magically transported back to Kansas, or something.

  14. 14.

    gogol's wife

    I just keep thinking, why isn’t Congress focused on climate change like a laser?

    I guess I know the answer to that.

    This is a very helpless feeling.

  16. 16.

    gene108

    This is God’s punishment for the people of Oklahoma embracing the homosexual agenda. /snark

  17. 17.

    TAPX486

    @Trollhattan: Agreed. However much the snark is deserved, not the time or place. We are our brothers keepers. Some of the video looks like Hiroshima after the a bomb.

  18. 18.

    MikeJ

    Amazing being able to see and predict where tornadoes will hit. First one I ever covered I was on the 16th floor of a building in Downtown Memphis when one hit West Memphis. Literally picked up the microphone and walked over to the window.

  19. 19.

    Todd

    @? Martin:

    Being in a helicopter is a relatively safe place. They can outrun the storms, and they can see the storms for quite a long distance. Lots of people on the ground can’t see the storms until they’re quite close.

    When the monster twister cut through the guts of Louisville in 1974, the afternoon traffic guy tracked it in his really light news chopper. He just stayed a safe distance away.

    The path through the Olmsted designed parks is still evident.

  20. 20.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MosesZD: Just reading on Think PRogress that the Canadian gov’t, never mind the oil companies has spent $25 million lobbying for Keystone.

    ETA: 75 kids trapped in rubble of the school.

  22. 22.

    gogol's wife

    I would agree with those who are urging that snark be eschewed at this time.

  24. 24.

    gene108

    @gogol’s wife:

    I just keep thinking, why isn’t Congress focused on climate change like a laser?

    Climate change won’t destroy the world. It may make human life hard to sustain at our current technology and consumption levels, but very few advanced life forms have lasted for ever, so I figure we lived large and had a good run.

    We became the apex species on the planet.

    You know, the star that burns twice as bright burns half as long sort of thing.

  29. 29.

    MikeJ

    @JPL: Sooner is in OKC, but Tulsa has tornadoes hitting right now too. We’re just getting coverage from OKC.

  31. 31.

    Trollhattan

    Per the live feed, there are 75 kids trapped in a collapsed school hallway they’re trying to get to. Hope it’s either erroneous or has a happy outcome.

  32. 32.

    Chris

    @gogol’s wife:

    I just keep thinking, why isn’t Congress focused on climate change like a laser?

    I think most of humanity considers it too esoteric and theoretical a threat to really focus on it. (Or maybe America’s just skewing my perception).

  33. 33.

    gogol's wife

    Thanks to everyone who’s filtering the news through here. I can’t stand it full strength.

  43. 43.

    Mnemosyne

    @Trollhattan:

    That was one of the first things I thought of when they said it had been declared an actual “tornado emergency” (aka get the fuck underground right fucking now). When I was in elementary school and high school, they would have us shelter in the hallways because there wasn’t a big enough basement. So that’s probably what the school had those kids do, not knowing that the roof would drop on them. It works 90 percent of the time, but the other 10 percent of the time ends up with what we’re seeing now.

  45. 45.

    BGinCHI

    Can someone watch sooner’s twitter feed and let us know when he gets on?

    I don’t have an account…..

    And yeah, all the snark isn’t funny right now. Save it.

  48. 48.

    gogol's wife

    @Poopyman:

    What I keep thinking is that tweeting probably isn’t at the top of his to-do list right now. I pray he’s safe.

  49. 49.

    notorious JRT

    @David Koch:

    I expect Senators Inhofe and colburn will reject federal aid given how they BOTH voted against Sandy relief.

    They will probably propose cutting NOAA funding to pay for aid to their constituents.

    This sort of destruction is hard to conceive. I hope the loss of life is somehow minimized, and I won”t be sorry if this ends Inhofe’s run as a climate change denier. Stay strong Oklahoma!

  50. 50.

    becca

    Between the emptying of the aquifer that supplies H20 to much of OK and being in prime twister territory, the state has got some serious decisions to make. Not a pretty picture.

  51. 51.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Chris: I don’t know. Europe has made huge strides in wind and solar, the Chinese gov’t and even some of the Arab petro-nations (sovereign wealth funds, I think they’re called?) are making huge investments in alternative energy because they see the way things are going. The weird American combination of religiosity and just the way our country is built–even in big cities its hard to live without a car– makes it really hard to change. Allowing the tax incentive for hybrids to lapse was a stupid move that I still don’t understand. Maybe not a game-changer but I think every bit counts.

  52. 52.

    Roger Moore

    @raven:

    Is it fucking possible for people to not show how goddamn funny they are?

    Some people use humor, especially dark humor, as a way of coping with disaster. Don’t assume the worst of them.

  53. 53.

    Comrade Mary

    Oklahoma buildings should have basements, right? I know that Texas and similar states generally don’t have basements.

    The KFOR live feed says one teacher and one kid have come out of the school rubble, so they know that at least two have survived of the 75. Jesus.

  54. 54.

    quannlace

    It’s simply unbelievable . And didn’t they say another storm was touching down?

  55. 55.

    Trollhattan

    @gogol’s wife:

    Honestly, if he’s in a damaged area, there is no way to get information of any sort out.Fingers crossed.

    There’s no way the locals and staties can handle this, so I presume the National Guard is mobilized by now.

  57. 57.

    scav

    @gogol’s wife: And the bandwidth — which has also likely taken hits — is likely best used on other needs. Volunteers in West, TX went into their fire using a google map I thbink I read somewhere.

  61. 61.

    Roger Moore

    @scav:
    A quick tweet to let everyone know you’re OK takes negligible bandwidth; it’s actually a very efficient way of passing on information. Of course it might also be a good idea to wait until the storm is over before declaring that you escaped it.

  65. 65.

    Comrade Mary

    @Roger Moore:

    Some people use humor, especially dark humor, as a way of coping with disaster. Don’t assume the worst of them.

    I don’t assume the worst of them: I assume that they should grow the fuck up.

    While people who are directly touched by tragedy can choose to use dark humour to cope, and those at a distance may feel so conflicted that they want to use humour, too, the latter group should think twice before choosing to indulge their humour in public, where people who are connected to those at risk may not be at all in the mood for someone else’s gauche choice of coping strategies.

    Say whatever you want in private; expect to be seen as an asshole if you say the same thing in public.

  66. 66.

    Trollhattan

    @? Martin:

    From what I can tell they’re tracking three separate cells, all of which are spawning funnel clouds. So long as the cells remain organized the process can continue as they head northeast. This ain’t over.

  67. 67.

    Eric U.

    For some reason, blaming stuff like this on climate change bothers me almost as much as when the wingnuts use a cold day in January as evidence that climate change doesn’t exist.

    they have had horrible tornadoes in that area for a very long time, and this is the season. So it doesn’t seem like this is real good evidence for climate change. When we start having regular tornadoes here in Pennsylvania, then I would agree.

  68. 68.

    Villago Delenda Est

    One of my WoW guildies in Tulsa just went offline to follow more closely the storm coverage. His son told him that a tornado had touched down just to the west of him, but no idea how far west that might be.

    At any rate, this is a damn nightmare, and efforts to do something about it have been systemically undermined by those in power, who yet again are pursuing short term profit at the expense of long term prosperity…or, for that matter, survival. It’s insane.

  69. 69.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Eric U.:

    One of the predicted outcomes of climate change is more intense storms, more often.

    We’re seeing that happen, right now.

  72. 72.

    scav

    @Roger Moore: But are we necessarily the highest on his list? That’s one problem with the internet, we’re now expecting immediate updates from wider networks. Individually not a problem, but at some point it scales. Just a general principle, breathe and wait, odds are anyone at BJ looking anyway will report it without a gazillion reminders.

    ETA of course, i was talking about tweeting Here — telephone tweets to family is just part of the stuff That should get top priority.

  74. 74.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    This is sad, but very predictable. The only thing that can stop a tornado is a bigger tornado.

  76. 76.

    max

    @Comrade Mary: Oklahoma buildings should have basements, right? I know that Texas and similar states generally don’t have basements.

    Not houses. Same reasons as Texas: the soil dries out and the foundations become unstable and crack. Cheaper and safer not to have one. What they do tend to have (if they have one) is a storm shelter, which is basically a bomb shelter with a different name.

    At any rate, this storm may or may not have something to do with climate change; I have seen plenty of nasty tornadoes before… the total number of nasty tornadoes in a season should go up over time though as additional retained heat in the atmosphere results in more violent storms. Whether that’s the deal here is irrelevant though.

    max
    [‘Shawnee got hit twice, yesterday and today. And More seems to have been totally wiped out. Ugly.’]

  77. 77.

    Trollhattan

    Another phenomenon I can’t wrap my brain around–“baseball-sized hail.”

  78. 78.

    Phoenician in a time of Romans

    @David Koch:

    I expect Senators Inhofe and colburn will reject federal aid given how they BOTH voted against Sandy relief.

    *sigh* I just saw some commentator taken to task elsewhere for pointing out that these places are the heart of climate denialist Republican know-nothingness and saying they shouldn’t get help.

    As far as I can see, they should get whatever aid can be given to survive the disaster and its immediate aftermath, helping people in desperate need of food, shelter and medical aid.

    And then they should get what they advocate for others with regards recovery and regeneration – which, for Republicans, is about nothing.

  79. 79.

    Trollhattan

    Anybody know location of the hospital Channel 4 is showing? It was hammered.

  81. 81.

    Roger Moore

    @scav:

    But are we necessarily the highest on his list?

    My point is that a tweet is broadcast rather than targeted. You can notify everyone interested by sending a single tweet. The heavy bandwidth is handled by Twitter, who have servers located all over the place, including places that are unlikely to have their bandwidth impacted by your local disaster. You can literally notify the whole world for the cost of one SMS message. That’s a very efficient use of locally constrained bandwidth.

  83. 83.

    ? Martin

    @Trollhattan:

    Another phenomenon I can’t wrap my brain around–”baseball-sized hail.”

    The first time you experience it is really something. My first tornado was the same day. Well, first 6 to be accurate. Not huge ones, and not particularly close, thankfully. But the hail started coming down and I could hear it hitting the roof (incredibly loud) and then you hear the higher pitched bangs. I looked out the window to see the hail just railing the shit out of the neighbor’s cars. By the time it was done there was a good 6-9″ of hail covering the ground, and every car not garaged was effectively destroyed.

    I was on summer break from HS visiting my dad who had moved just a few months before. He was at work and had one of those tornados right outside his window a couple hundred yards away. It was an exciting day.

  84. 84.

    Elizabelle

    Does Sooner need wireless to tweet? Or is it just phone lines? Maybe cell towers and electricity are down?

  86. 86.

    Gopher2b

    @Phoenician in a time of Romans: @Phoenician in a time of Romans:

    If I were in Congress I would give a passionate speech about what it means to be a nation and a community. Then I would say I would say I would announce that I’ll vote for aid as soon as those two idiots apologize for voting against Sandy relief. Until that happens, they won’t see a dime of federal money. It’s the only form of communication they understand.

  87. 87.

    Eric U.

    @Villago Delenda Est: everyone here knows this, but the denialists in Oklahoma also know that devastating tornadoes go back a long time. Pointing at a single storm as evidence is not going to convince the southerners that we really need to convince in order to do something about climate change.

    The charts in this article paint a pretty compelling picture though.

  88. 88.

    Gopher2b

    If I were in Congress I would give a passionate speech about what it means to be a nation and a community. Then I would say I would say I would announce that I’ll vote for aid as soon as those two idiots apologize for voting against Sandy relief. Until that happens, they won’t see a dime of federal money. It’s the only form of communication they understand.

    Those kids are getting prayers from this agnostic.

  89. 89.

    JPL

    @Elizabelle: I don’t know but if he or his family were in harms way, he needs to deal with them first. It could be awhile before we hear.

  90. 90.

    Roger Moore

    @Trollhattan:

    Another phenomenon I can’t wrap my brain around–”baseball-sized hail.”

    It happens. I remember one storm growing up where the media couldn’t decide if the stones were grapefruit sized or softball sized. I don’t remember seeing anything bigger than golf ball sized hail in person, but that’s pretty formidable when it’s driven by a serious wind.

  91. 91.

    Phoenician in a time of Romans

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    One of the predicted outcomes of climate change is more intense storms, more often.

    We’re seeing that happen, right now.

    If you have proof of this, rather than confirmation bias, please post it.

    I point at this 2011 piece – http://www.technologyreview.com/view/424099/record-tornado-season-caused-by-climate-change/

    “Tornadoes have killed more people this year than they have since 1953. This has some wondering whether higher global temperatures might be contributing. The answer: there isn’t a statistical correlation between the number of tornadoes and rising temperatures.”

    Maybe the science has changed since 2011 – if so, please cite your source. Until then, you’re mirroring the climate denialists pointing at cold days in winter – using singular events as assertions about a trend.

  93. 93.

    Tom

    Moore was hit by a devastating tornado in the spring of 1999. A couple weeks later I was driving south on I-35 just south of Oklahoma City. The interstate went up on an overpass, and as it crested I looked off to the right, which happened to be right down the path the tornado had followed. Utter devastation – enormous piles of debris, nothing but concrete foundations where houses had been – words failure to convey the immensity of the destruction. I hope those kids are OK.

  94. 94.

    Trollhattan

    @raven:

    Thanks, I think that’s the one. Great news; must be a tough building.

    They’re showing the school now, and it looks grim indeed. Breaks my heart.

  95. 95.

    TAPX486

    @Gopher2b: I vacillate between ‘we are our brothers keepers’ and remembering the anti government/anti aid speeches these red state pols made during superstorm sandy. It does make we want to say ‘you made your bed now lie in it’.

    The weather service warnings gave people 15 minutes warning which will hold the death toll down. Once the GOP finishes destroying the weather service folks will be on their own.

  96. 96.

    ? Martin

    @TAPX486: Well, in a just world, Congress would immediately approve the aid to be paid directly from the salaries of every Senator that voted against Sandy aid until the day they retire.

  97. 97.

    raven

    OK, this is a BJ post from soonergrunt from a couple of years back.

    May 24, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Well, that was fun.
    The big one just missed us by about half a mile. Dissapated just as it got southeast of my house. dropped some insulation that it took from somewhere in my lawn. No damage in my neighborhood. Same supercell started up again just east of south OKC/Moore area, but missed my sister’s place and my dad’s place.
    El Reno (west of OKC) hammered bad. Okarche-Piedmont area hit hard. A good friend and her family lost ”

    So it looks like he has family there and posting here is low priority

  98. 98.

    Roger Moore

    @Trollhattan:

    Great news; must be a tough building.

    Building standards for hospitals are generally tougher than for just about any other occupied structure outside the military. They have to stay in business through disasters that devastate the rest of the community, and the worse the devastation the more necessary the hospital. It makes them frighteningly expensive to build- the main medical building here at work cost well over $1 million/bed, and I’d bet it would be over $2 million/bed today- but they prove their value on days like today.

  100. 100.

    Trollhattan

    @TAPX486:

    I hope the New York and New Jersey congressional delegations stand up tomorrow and loudly proclaim their love and concern for the citizens of Oklahoma and demand immediate and comprehensive disaster relief without delay. That kind of leadership will give folks a compare-and-contrast moment to ponder.

  101. 101.

    fidelio

    Having done a big tornado, I can assure you that even if your yourself are fine it’s hard to do much more than check in with your people locally and start trying to sort things out.

    I’d love for Soonergrunt to surface and tell us he and his family are fine, but doing that may be a lot harder than it seems from where we sit.

  102. 102.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Phoenician in a time of Romans:

    If I’m erring, it’s on the side of caution.

    Denying this is happening is erring on the side of carelessness. Again, short term gain at the expense of long term trends.

    These fucking “conservatives” are anything but.

  103. 103.

    Eric U.

    fywp ate my thinkprogress link, you can search for “UPDATE: Tornadoes, Extreme Weather And Climate Change, Revisited”

  107. 107.

    Nicole

    My husband’s dad lives in OKC; he’s currently taking shelter in an underground bar. Seriously.

    OKC is huge- it takes about an hour to drive from one end of the city to the other; if soonergrunt is in the northern half, he’s likely okay, though quite possibly without power. Moore is southern OKC.

  108. 108.

    JR in WV

    We were through tornado ally on the way home from Arizona just last month. I remarked that the building code should provide a storm shelter for everyone, everywhere. So the local guy says, “The ground is too hard, it can’t be done!”

    Now, I’ve heard some strange/stupid stuff in my life, but to say that the ground is too hard to build storm shelters for everyone, the stupid just burns! Storm shelters can be built of reinforced concrete above ground, if necessary. Then the guy says “But that’s too expensive!” Too Expensive! More expensive than dying?!?!?

    Give me a break! Too Expensive to not die?

  110. 110.

    Heliopause

    I don’t know why this occurred to me but has Westboro Baptist weighed in on this yet?

  112. 112.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @TAPX486:

    Once the GOP finishes destroying the weather service folks will be on their own.

    Ayn Rand approves of this outcome.

  113. 113.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @fidelio: Just saw someone on MSNBC that said cell service was down. Being interviewed was their only way to get word out that they were OK.

  114. 114.

    Elizabelle

    OT. Ray Manzarek of The Doors has died of cancer.

    And Apple is relieved its tax evading strategies won’t be top story.

  115. 115.

    Nicole

    @raven: I know where Norman is; I didn’t see your post with mention of Norman until after I’d posted mine. My husband says Norman is a big college town and if it had been hit, we’d likely be hearing a lot about it. So fingers crossed soonergrunt is okay.

  117. 117.

    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn

    @Roger Moore: My last year or two in Denver (left in ’91) saw a lot of whacky weather for that town. Including golf-balls sized hail, which hit as my then-wife was out driving our Mustang. Fortunately, she wound up under an overpass and so the car was spared, but for months (likely years) after that, plenty of cars that the owners couldn’t afford to fix drove around with dimpled scars.

    I can’t imagine bigger than that coming from the sky. I’d think the world was ending.

  118. 118.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    MSNBC headline: cries for help coming from devastated school

  123. 123.

    Nicole

    @raven: Yeah, that’s where my husband went to college. So soonergrunt is likely without power for a while, but okay. Poor Moore, though. How awful.

  124. 124.

    cckids

    I grew up in Nebraska; when I was a junior in high school we got hit with this . Our house wasn’t destroyed, but had plenty of damage. The grocery store where I worked took a direct hit & lost its roof & all windows.

    I’d been through countless tornado drills, warnings & advisories, but there is really nothing that I know of in nature to compare to huddling in your basement, having seen a twister touch down fairly close & hearing that noise get louder & louder. It feels like the whole world is crashing around your heads. And there is not a damn thing you can do.

    I swear, it was 18 years later when I moved out of state, and THAT is what it took for the nightmares to finally stop. My heart goes out to the people in OK.

  126. 126.

    nellcote

    Soonergrunt checked in last night. As of last night, tornado missed his house and he doesn’t have power, cell or internet service.

  129. 129.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    Yeah, cell service isn’t very robust when the towers are wiped out, which we learned in NYC on that fateful day in September 2001.

    Which is why a land line is still a good idea, as a backup to your high-tech but subject to disruption cell phone.

  130. 130.

    rikyrah

    mindschmootz ‏@mindschmootz32m
    KFOR: Oklahoma teacher lay on top of 6 kids in a bathroom to save them. They are all ok. Teachers, God love ’em.

  131. 131.

    Trollhattan

    @Roger Moore:

    Good point. Our newest hospital has been under construction for at least half a decade and is still not open. I’ll wager just the utilities alone cost as much as a comparably sized office building. And then there’s the seismic aspect….

  133. 133.

    Sherlock Hound

    @Roger Moore:
    We are all terrified for Sooner. If he’s really in the soup, he will have a million things in his head. Twitter is likely not the first thing on his mind.

    Example from last month: I had been a volunteer radio op at the Boston Marathon for several years.

    Yes, at the finish line. I knew that area very well, and would have easily witnessed what had happened.

    If I were there, that is. I hadn’t volunteered in two years.

    My friends and family were panicking! I was at home and didn’t have my cell phone nearby.

    I finally had to use bandwidth on Facebook to reassure everyone even though I would have given it in a second to someone with loved ones who needed to message much more than I did.

    Just sit tight.

  134. 134.

    gbear

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was watching videos of the tornado yesterday on one of the OK television stations, and every video started out with a plug from an oil company asking you to visit they’re site to see how awesome North American oil mining was. I should go check back with that station today to see if it’s the same ads.

    My snark was going to be that god couldn’t find Minnesota on the map, but I’m just going to hope that the people in the path of that storm had adequate cover. So many people without houses or neighborhoods now, and they say that it’s not over yet.

  135. 135.

    Keith G

    @Elizabelle:

    And Apple is relieved its tax evading strategies won’t be top story

    As might some guys who work in a certain building on Pennsylvania Avenue, DC.

  137. 137.

    srv

    @raven: Well, he was building a new house somewhere, not sure it was also around there or somewhere else.

  138. 138.

    Flying Squirrel Girl

    My cousin is a teacher at Plaza Towers and is trapped but OK. Family has talked to her twice. I don’t know what else to do so I thought I’d tell y’all.

  140. 140.

    ? Martin

    @Elizabelle: I don’t think Apple is troubled by that. They paid 2.5% of all US corporate taxes last year. And Levin’s report is very odd. He knows full well that profits earned overseas are taxed in their local jurisdiction yet he seems to be avoiding noting that fact. Not sure what he’s after there.

  141. 141.

    raven

    @srv: I think he’s in it because the conversation this morning started with him feeling good about the lack of hail damage on the new roof. Others then chimed in that he needed to have it checked..

    soonergrunt (mobile) says:
    May 20, 2013 at 8:48 am

    OT: had a long night with the storms on our first night in the new house. Had 3-in diameter hail on the new roof. Seems to have held up well. Still don’t have internet or TV or hot water yet. 4G wireless reaches ALMOST to our house, but not yet.

  145. 145.

    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn

    @rikyrah: Clearly an act of brutish thuggery.

    *sigh*

    Snark aside, that kind of story gets ya where you live.

  148. 148.

    Flying Squirrel Girl

    @Flying Squirrel Girl: YES!!! Just got a message from her daughter, and she said they are texting with her! Trapped but OK. Neither my cousin nor her two daughters and their families know if they have homes left, they went straight to the school when it happened to check on their mom.

  152. 152.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Villago Delenda Est: This couple had evacuated and apparently couldn’t find any way to call out. Dunno how far outside the devastation they were.

    OTOH, I recall using a neighbor’s cell to call family after Fran when the land lines were all out.

  153. 153.

    JoyfulA

    @Elizabelle: Sooner said last night that he’d just moved in and didn’t have Internet or hot water yet. What he did have in his new house was big, hard hail that apparently did no damage.

    People nagged him about having an insurance inspection for minor cracks that would expand later, and then he said he called USAA and made an appointment.

    But last night he had no Internet in his brand new house.

  155. 155.

    Phoenician in a time of Romans

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Denying this is happening is erring on the side of carelessness. Again, short term gain at the expense of long term trends.

    I agree. The precautionary principle suggests we should be working real hard now before things get much worse. (As somebody once said – if we’re wrong, we’ll wind up with an economy based on clean energy and no pollution – where’s the downside?)

    But you’re not helping when you overstate the case – it just gives the denialists ammunition. The best you can say is that the US can expect more of this in the future.

    Incidentally to all – go read John Barnes “Mother of Storms” for an entertaining look at just how bad it might get…

  156. 156.

    Nicole

    @JoyfulA:

    We never had tornadoes in Pennsylvania beyond dust devils until the last decade or two.

    Most of my family still lives in PA and it’s just been so surreal hearing them talk about seeing them now.

  158. 158.

    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn

    @Roger Moore: I recall all sorts of spectacular spring and summer storms, but the ’90 hailstorm really stands out in my mind. Wonder if that was the one that did the window damage downtown, or was this another time?

    I also recall twice getting on my bike in my high-school years to view twister damage in the city. Once I had to ride clrear across town to the north end (Thornton). The other time, I just had to ride my bike around in my neighborhood.

    If you haven’t seen twister damage up close and personal, it’s hard to relay how surreal it is; common (and largish) object twisted up as if it had momentarily become string.

  159. 159.

    opie jeanne

    @riley’s enabler: Thanks. I finally got NOAA online. Posted that just before I lost my connection for 20 mimnutes. We were driving in the mountains near LA (Lake Arrowhead) and there are areas where there is no service at all.

    Our cabin has wifi, so I was able to see the map on NOAA.

    And may I say fuck those fuckers if they try to fucking take away my fucking NOAA.

  161. 161.

    PurpleGirl

    @Roger Moore: Dorothy’s home would have been safe. The farmhouse had a basement.

    Why don’t more houses/schools/whatever have basements? It’s been shown for years that people will be safer below ground. Why don’t they build basements.

  164. 164.

    Throwin Stones

    @Trollhattan: Baseball hail here in SWOhio almost exactly 2 years ago. $35K+ claim on a modest property.

    Good thoughts to all affected.

  166. 166.

    jprfrog

    @gene108: Wishing no ill to the people who were affected, I couldn’t help wondering when Pat Robertson would deliver his ukase (Russian for a Tsar’s decree). After all, he opined that Sandy was God’s chastisement of the evil liberal Gomorrah where I happen to live (Washington Heights, Manhattan was not affected at all, being about 175 feet above the water level). Isn’t Oklahoma the buckle on the Bible Belt? Didn’t they pray hard enough?

  167. 167.

    Todd

    @raven:

    They had a congresscritter from right there and he said many people have above ground reinforced shelters.

    You can do it. Deep sink rebar and concrete, do a cement block bunker, mound dirt. Make the sonofabitch about 2 feet thick, deep inset a slab door and you’re good to go.

  170. 170.

    Trollhattan

    I am not making this up: A reporter is showing a storm shelter where some folks holed up, and the camera zooms out to show somebody tying a Confederate flag to a tree snag, a few feet away.

    The shelter door has blood on it, inside.

  171. 171.

    max

    @Trollhattan: Anybody know location of the hospital Channel 4 is showing? It was hammered.

    They said on MSNBC that they were relocating the patients from the Moore hospital to the Norman hospital (which is, oddly enough, the hospital where I was born), so presumably SG is OK because Norman is OK. (And the odds are fairly long that another really monster tornado would hit so near again.)

    I have seen softball-sized hail; sounds like fucking bombs going off when it hits the ground. Doesn’t last very long though.

    max
    [‘Which is good.’]

    p.s. Not as exciting as the Weather channel map, but here’s the NWS map for right now (link changes in a few hours!). Anywhere in the yellow zone has got problems and they should be looking to the skies.

  172. 172.

    Todd

    @Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn:

    If you haven’t seen twister damage up close and personal, it’s hard to relay how surreal it is; common (and largish) object twisted up as if it had momentarily become string.

    It would be really easy for me to snark at the moment, and that moment will eventually arrive, but you’ve never lived until you’ve heard one of the sonsabitches pass overhead while you hide with your family (and the dog) under a pool table.

  173. 173.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Phoenician in a time of Romans:

    The denialists will deny no matter what.

    It’s the undecideds or the apathetic we’re trying to reach.

    I have heard, over and over, that one of the results of this is more intense, more frequent storms, as the overall global temperature rises, and a subsequent alteration of climate. The clash of hot and cold air is what gives us these thunderstorm cells. The heat of the ocean fuels cyclones. If the heat increases, there is more fuel for the storms.

    This isn’t overstating. It’s pointing out how the trends are going to flow.

    Unless you’re Dick Cheney, and you just ignore all this because you won’t get even richer if you slow down your voracious greed.

  174. 174.

    Anoniminous

    @PurpleGirl:

    Expense. Basement costs range from $10 to $30 per square foot. A tornado-proof basement, with an “escape hatch” type exit outside the house’s footprint would fall somewhere in the middle or around $25,000 for an “average” sized home.

  177. 177.

    JoyfulA

    @Nicole: I moved back about 15 years ago, and then a development had a couple of houses flattened by a tornado.

    So I was harumpfing that the houses must have been built of cardboard because we don’t get real tornadoes, just dust devils that might pick up a lawn chair, etc. Yes, climate change made a fool out of me; rural PA has been getting them for a couple of decades now.

  179. 179.

    scav

    @Roger Moore: You sort if blew by the ”gazillion reminders” and people asking about tweets part of the post, which is low-information clogging chatter — indeed, unlike any single tweet from him. Now we have multiples, the redundant queries, the multiple responses of no, the meta-discussion (mea culpa). There’s the hairball in the tubes.

  180. 180.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @jprfrog:

    Whenever some tornado or other storm wipes out a fundie church, I just shake my head. Obviously they didn’t pray hard enough, or to the right godhead of Mammon.

  181. 181.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Trollhattan: Wonder if that’s where they just pulled a dead family out.

    I’m vacillating between thinking “This is what it would have felt like to see Xenia coverage in real time” and “armada storms“.

  188. 188.

    Roger Moore

    @Todd:

    That’ll stave in a skull.

    If you’re unlucky enough to be out in it. When I was a kid, my brothers and I would go out in the hail, but we at least had the sense to wear hard hats when we were doing it. I don’t remember it getting bigger than pea or marble sized at our house, except for one occasion where it was about golf ball sized, driven by a strong wind, and destructive enough to smash our storm windows and require that we repaint the side of the house where it hit. My brother was out delivering newspapers when that storm hit, and he couldn’t do anything but lie whimpering in pain for an hour or so. Larger hail can be deadly, but it often gives a fair warning before coming down, so deaths are quite rare in the US.

  191. 191.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @sharl: Neither do I.

    At least two dozen of the 75.

    Neither do the reporters. They’ve shifted their focus.

  192. 192.

    Mike in NC

    Switched on the TV news for the first time today. Good grief, what colossal devastation in Oklahoma.

  193. 193.

    mclaren

    I’ve been saying for years now that America’s descent into barbarism was going to reap the world’s prize bounty of bad karma. Now what goes around seems to be coming around.

    Once upon a time, America used to be a real country that cared about things like the rule of law and put people from other nations on trial when they committed torture and war crimes. Once upon a time, this country actually used to try to rehabilitate its prisoners, and had at least a vaguely progressive system of taxation, and police who weren’t East-German-style stasi.

    Now, America has gone full metal police state, the rule of law has gone away, torture is rampant, our police are muggers with badges who beat innocent citizens to death for kicks and walk away scot free, and our president acts like the gangster Al Capone, ordering citizens murdered without a trial or charges, and sends drones to blow up innocent women and children in countries we’re not at war with, for no discernible reason…like some gangbanger blasting kids and pregnant moms in a drive-by shooting and then driving away without a care in the world for the innocent lives he’s destroyed.

    This nation deserves its city-wrecking tornadoes. We had a real civilization and chose to throw it all away and tear up the basic framework of laws (right to due process, right to be charged with a crime before the state can kill you, right to trial by a jury of your peers, prohibition of torture, prohibition against the state seizing your property or imprisoning you indefinitely without a trial or charges) that unpinned Western civilization for 900 years since the Magna Carta.

    Obliteration seems just.

  194. 194.

    A Ghost To Most

    @JR in WV:

    Hey, these clowns think it is too expensive to provide a good education to all kids, or to provide basic health care to those who can’t afford.

    Always enough money to buy another gun, though.

  196. 196.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @JPL: I can’t interpret that, not being fluent in out-of-context-Biblical. What is Ewick twying to say?

  198. 198.

    Don K

    @JR in WV:

    I’m reminded of back in the Vietnam days when conservatives (like my dad) would say shit like, “Well you know, Asians are different than you and me; they place a lower value on human life.”

    Well you know, rednecks are different than you and me; theyy place a lower value on human life.

  199. 199.

    A Ghost To Most

    @mclaren:

    Jebus, you sound as bad as Pat Robertson

    Karma = Pissed off Sky Fairy. You’re as big a fucking idiot as he is.

  201. 201.

    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn

    @sharl: TPM has been reporting the finding as good news, which seems to indicate they all survived.

    Fog of war and all that (I’d like to really, really hope). I’d be leery of reports where you don’t have a reporter and a camera at the scene.

  202. 202.

    Roger Moore

    @Yatsuno:

    I have no idea WTF that even means.

    Solomon is recommending diversification as an investment strategy. Seriously. Ecclesiastes 11:1-6 is discusses the risk of disasters and says you should diversify to avoid the risk of any one of them. I’d think something from Psalms would be a more appropriate response to a disaster.

  206. 206.

    TAPX486

    @Nicole: I spent most of my life in the Philly suburbs and can remember a twister or two. Mostly F1’s, the weather systems aren’t conducive to the big ones like the great plains. Something blew thru our neighborhood one evening during a thunderstorm. It did a lot of damage to trees and houses (but oddly the half dead tree on our lawn survived.). Straight line winds in a microburst of 100+ mph can do just as much damage as a small tornado.

    And yes that tree was taken down within the week. Wasn’t going to tempt fate a second time

  208. 208.

    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn

    @mclaren: Why, I do believe we’re being trolled!

    Westboro Baptist Church called — they said if you could tighten that screed up a tad, say to something like “GOD HATES FAGS,” they’d love to talk about your membership in their elite little misanthropic club.

  209. 209.

    Todd

    @Russ:

    I believe someone is smiting The Senator From Oklahoma. Just sayin”.

    I want to see those two mendacious fucks sit through the aid vote, as Senator after Senator reminds them and their constituents of their oh-so-principled philosophical stances before voting them the aid.

  210. 210.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Todd: Be interesting to see how other anti- Sandy folks vote, too. Actually it’s all to predictable, as is the lack of reaction from the Villagers.

  212. 212.

    Ash Can

    @mclaren: You’ve made a lot of shitty comments here, but this is one of the worst. It’s obvious why you rail on about how horrible you think our government officials are — like with all the rightwing assholes, it’s all projection with you. You’re looking in a mirror all the while you’re bitching. You just suck.

  213. 213.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I can pretty much guarantee what will happen: Inhofe and other-senator will demand federal aid as their right, because their constituents deserve it, unlike Those People in New York and New Jersey. If the senators from New York and New Jersey vote against it, the Republicans will run ads against them talking about how they refused to help people in trouble.

    Personally, if I were a NY/NJ senator, I would stand up and announce that I was not going to vote until Inhofe apologized to the people of my state for politicizing a tragedy. It wouldn’t do much in the short run or the long run, but it would be personally satisfying.

  215. 215.

    Ruckus

    @sharl:
    You don’t think she’s a little upset do you?
    People here are holding the snark because that’s the human thing to do while pompous arrogant assholes are being pompous arrogant assholes, once again.

  216. 216.

    Ash Can

    @raven: Cleek posted here just recently with an update. I don’t have the link, sorry — maybe someone else here has it.

  218. 218.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I can’t interpret that, not being fluent in out-of-context-Biblical. What is Ewick twying to say?

    Everything that happens is a part of God’s plan.

    @Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn: Yeah, I listened to the local reporters break down for a while, hoping someone would interrupt them, before I posted. The guy talking was on the ground, seeing the kids carried out.

  221. 221.

    Don K

    Oh, and snark about rednecks aside, I agree the people of Oklahoma deserve all the federal aid they need (I won’t even ask for offsets). I’d just put one condition on it. All of the elected representatives from the state have to stand in the well of the House or at their desks in the Senate, and beg, grovel, abase themselves, and perform whatever other penance is deemed appropriate by the elected representatives of New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut.

  223. 223.

    Elie

    I dunno…these Oklahoma folks have been hit by F4 to F5 tornadoes for a while now. Still — I don’t see modifications to rebuilding designs. Every school/hospital at least needs an underground shelter. Ideally they should be redesigned to be much more “”below ground” modern type “earthworks”. There is a lot of architectural knowledge about this. At least, the kids in that school that got hit, should have a below ground escape safe room accessed from each of the school rooms. They were instead, in a hallway outside their classroom, and last I heard, 20+ had been killed.

    Another thing — this HAS to effect these people’s psychology to year after year be “set ups” for arbitrary death from above. Same thing with Kansans and some parts of Texas. Its gotta play a role in their psychological dynamics. Every year, some of their folks “get chosen” for the big sacrifice that no one can seem to avert..Maybe that is why they just don’t “get” the concept of preventing hardships for poor folks. Every year, they know some x number of their folks are going to get the big axe and not only die, but lose every stick of material possessions that they have.

    Something to think about as we try to penetrate this culture’s mindset. I sure don’t get it. I would have moved the eff away a long time ago……

  224. 224.

    Todd

    @Ksmiami:

    Maybe god is none too happy with the haters

    Nah, it’s that the haters didn’t hate enough. They didn’t see to it that enough white people were armed against, you know, them.

    And now we’re interviewing a Caucasian-American over the efforts he made to save his motherfucking gun collection. He seemed proud that he dropped one of his guns to save a dog, like he deserves a goddamn medal.

  227. 227.

    Elie

    @Don K:

    agreed.

    I have some thoughts down string to why they might be so insensitive… they just seem to easily accomodate that some people are going to be “blown up”every year. Like the Wildebeests who chew their cuds while watching the Lions “get” one of their herd — “well Whew, it wasnt ME” so all is good, doncha know?

  228. 228.

    The Other Chuck

    @mclaren: Before I put you back in the troll filter where you’re staying for good, I just wanted to extend a hearty fuck you for being such a piece of garbage. You don’t deserve the effort of me thinking of any more colorful phrases to call you.

  231. 231.

    raven

    Seven dead kids in one of the schools and they’ve gone to a recovery mission.

  232. 232.

    Todd

    Dear Weather Channel: does the fact that these were Oklahoma wingnuts in large suburban homes (and thus are likely insured) make these people more worthy than some schmuck living in a small home on he economic fringe? I’d really like to know.

  233. 233.

    MomSense

    This is just terrifying. My heart goes out to the people who were hit by those tornadoes.

  234. 234.

    The Other Chuck

    What browser and version of Troll-B-Gone are you running? In Firefox, you can go to Tools->Add-ons, click “User Scripts” and it’ll tell you the version. If it’s less than 1.3.0, remove it and reinstall it. I thought all GM scripts auto-updated, but I think that was a plugin I ran that did it.

    I’ll add the userscripts.org update checker when I get a round tuit (could be a while)

  235. 235.

    MikeJ

    @Elie:

    Every school/hospital at least needs an underground shelter. Ideally they should be redesigned to be much more “”below ground” modern type “earthworks”.

    Hobbit holes would be ideal.

  236. 236.

    opie_jeanne

    @raven:

    They drowned.

    The reporter kept saying they drowned in the bottom of the school, which I don’t understand. They were in a hallway, I thought.

  237. 237.

    Todd

    @opie_jeanne:

    The reporter kept saying they drowned in the bottom of the school, which I don’t understand. They were in a hallway, I thought.

    Oklahoma and Texas routinely get hit by monster tornadoes. What asshole sat in a school budget meeting and said “we can’t afford a good shelter system, that costs too much, and would require a tax increase”?

  238. 238.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @opie_jeanne:

    The reporter kept saying they drowned in the bottom of the school, which I don’t understand. They were in a hallway, I thought.

    From the helicopter footage, it looks like when the building collapsed, it closed off the ends of the hallway.

  239. 239.

    steve

    KINDA OT, kinda not:

    Extreme weather, drought, flooding, have all been on my mind lately.

    After much consideration about finding a new career, I believe my:

    a) physics background
    b) willingness to travel
    c) extreme willingness to get somewhere west of texas and forever out of the morbid obesity zone)

    combined with the certitude of medium & long-term energy cost increases, mean there has to be a growing set of industries and opportunities related to increasing the energy usage efficiency of corporations, governments, small businesses, and consumers.

    Same thing with drought. It’s becoming an issue in every state, a severe issue, the draining of the plains aquifer is creating crisis, desalination is going to be essential in many places soon, so water is something else I’d love to look into.

    Problem is, this stuff’s kinda like the corrugated cardboard industry–you know there’s gotta be suppliers, designers, manufacturers, etc, but you don’t know offhand who the companies are, where they are, what jobs there are, who to contact, etc. If anybody knows a lot about either of these topics, and wants to chat, please email me at #Steve#story@#gmail#.com (minus the hashes)

  240. 240.

    opie_jeanne

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    Which then filled up with water. Dear God.

    I don’t get this whole excuse that the ground is too dry; Southern California has basements that date way way back, built when people from the mid-West and East moved to California and couldn’t quite wrap their heads around not needing that kind of storm shelter. Alternately that the ground is too hard. WTF? Do we not have adequate equipment that can dig in hard earth? It’s just basic cheapness of developers and the planning commissions go along because, hey, it’s development! Must make the developers happy.

    I do know that a lot of newer Texas houses have basements, just from watching House Hunters.

    And from my Sunday School days, saying that this is God’s will is not just stupid but also Very Wrong.

  242. 242.

    Mnemosyne

    @opie_jeanne:

    Someone was saying above that the soil is unstable (sandy) and so a full basement generally isn’t a good idea. I don’t know why that rules out some kind of small underground root cellar that doesn’t go the length of the house, though. Not enough man cave opportunity?

  243. 243.

    PurpleGirl

    Re Drowning: Tornados also come with lots of rain, wind driven rain. Without a functional roof, the hallway would fill with rain water.

    I sometimes watch those Stormchaser shows about tornado researchers and people fascinated with the storms. As the approach the storm, you see the amount of hail and rain they have to drive through.

  244. 244.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @opie_jeanne: Another reporter just said the kids who drowned were in a basement, but I’ve been hearing all evening that there was no basement at Plaza Towers.

    Another reporter said it would require dynamite to excavate in much of this area, but that above-ground shelters are possible.

    Death toll up to 51.

    As for Sunday School, well, I grew up among fundies. A friend of mine tells me that my stories from that church are like looking at her faith through a funhouse mirror.

  245. 245.

    The Populist

    @David Koch: I hate to agree when it comes to the lives of people not using political ideology as a hammer to screw with people, but I was thinking that myself. I expect all states who have senators and congresscritters who refused to help NJ or the eastern seaboard rebuild to refuse ALL federal aid. Problem is, that would be something I hope doesn’t happen because as much as these folks annoy me with their bizarre political ideas, I want to help all of them out.

  246. 246.

    The Populist

    What makes me angry (and I agree with Bill Maher the other night) is that if the right can keep arguing about impeaching and going after the President with one made up scandal after another, can we start to go after all the asshats on the right who perpetuate the biggest scandal of our time: That the Earth’s climate IS NOT changing.

    This type of weather is only gonna get worse every year. It would be nice if the voters who give idiots like Inhofe votes would demand more of him and wake up to the fact he is WRONG and that scientists are 100% right on this issue. If they don’t start challenging the pundits and politicians who say it’s not climate change? That’s like condemning their kids to death sentences. Sorry, time to call it as I see it.

  247. 247.

    Phoenician in a time of Romans

    @lojasmo:

    How about some science?

    Indeed. And what exactly is it you believe that study says?

  249. 249.

    Keith G

    @Eric U.:

    I thought the pie filter still worked, but I see it doesn’t. Bummer

    Sorry to say this, but it must take one hell of a weak will not to be able to skip over the comment of a person shown to be not worth a read.

    “Stop me before I do it. Oh please stop me. Stop me!”

  252. 252.

    opie jeanne

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    We spent a lot of time on this exact idea, that stuff like this is NOT God’s plan and that thinking so is just plain bad theology. When Bad Things Happen to Good People is a pretty good book on the subject, but Fundies probably discount it because the author is Jewish. A rabbi, IIRC.

    Methodists tend to be looked at askance by a lot of Fundies, and we are told by them that we are not Real Christians. I have Fundie in-laws (cousins) and sometimes I used to be astonished at the things they would say, and that they would corner me in my kitchen on Thanksgiving to tell me how evolution was a hoax and I was going to Hell if I believed it, and turn around and apologize for not being married to their live-in girlfriend/boyfriend..

  253. 253.

    opie jeanne

    @The Populist:
    My neighbor suggested we put in AC because the summers are getting hotter every year in the PNW (just outside Seattle).

    She’s as liberal as they come and I love her to pieces; she supposedly understands all about global warming, but can’t see what’s wrong with that idea. We have a fan that we haul out for a few days every summer, makes sleeping possible those nights and uses a heck of a lot less power. If we had AC it would be on a lot more often than the fan is now, and we moved to the area because we wouldn’t need AC. .

  254. 254.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @opie jeanne: There’s a lot of bad theology floating around in the fundamentalist movement. I concluded long ago that part of the point of the whacked-out interpretations is to twist the student-victim’s thought processes in a manner that very much resembles brainwashing.

    I do try to serve as a translator when I can, and save people the effort of trying to figure out the funhouse reflection on their own.

  255. 255.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Keith G: Some people are compulsive readers. Some people read in huge chunks of text instead of one word at a time.

    I fall into both categories.

    I literally cannot avoid reading something in front of me. By the time the commenter’s name registers, I’ve read the comment, and my blood pressure has gone through the roof.

    I use a script to block certain sites from search results for the same reason.

Comments are closed.