Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Ah, the different things are different argument.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Second rate reporter says what?

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Come on, man.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread

Reader Interactions

112Comments

  1. 1.

    Redshirt

    Weather sucks!

    Also, “Pop Song 89” was the first song I learned to play on guitar. It’s very easy. And catchy!

    “Green” was one of the most pivotal albums in musical history. Debate/discuss.

  2. 2.

    janeform

    Our dog is the opposite. 25 degrees with wind and a little snow is optimal. In hot weather he’s slow as molasses.

  3. 3.

    NickT

    Nice bit of Bolshevizing from Krgthulhu here:

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c…..publicans/

    …the preliminary numbers for CA are in — and they’re looking very good, with costs coming in below expectations. At this point, it looks as if this thing is indeed going to work.
    And think about the political dynamics. Because the Supreme Court decided to let states opt out of the Medicaid expansion, some states — notably Texas — will have a pretty dysfunctional version of Obamacare in 2014, although even those systems will provide significant benefits to many people. Still, the whole political calculus was supposed to be that Republicans in red states could point to the horrors of Obamacare and ride them to political victory. Instead, it looks as if we’re going to see blue-state residents reaping the benefits of a functional health care system, while red-state residents are denied many of those benefits, for what looks like no better reason than mean-spirited spite — because what’s going on is, indeed, mean-spirited spite.
    Predictions that Obamacare will be a big political issue are probably right — but not in the way gleeful conservatives imagined.

  5. 5.

    ? Martin

    Another writeup from California:

    The proposed premium prices vary depending on the geographic region of California, the consumer’s age and the richness of benefits, from catastrophic coverage for young adults to “Platinum” products. Under the premiums unveiled on Thursday, a 25-year-old in Los Angeles could choose a Health Net catastrophic plan for $117 a month or a more comprehensive “Bronze” plan for $147 a month from L.A. Care, the nation’s largest public health plan. And if that individual makes less than about $45,600 per year, she would qualify for a subsidy that would bring the cost of the premium down further.
    …
    “I’m impressed,” said Betsy Imholz, director of special projects for Consumers Union, a division of Consumer Reports. “I actually think they are good prices,” she said, especially for those who will receive federal insurance subsidies.

    More than half of Californians shopping for insurance through the state-run marketplace will be eligible for federal income tax credits. Those credits will offset the price of private insurance: A 40-year-old individual in Los Angeles, for example, who earns $1,915 a month, or 200 percent of the federal poverty level, would pay a monthly premium of $90 for a Health Net HMO “Silver” plan in 2014, according to the rates released by Covered California.

  6. 6.

    TAPX486

    What a great country we live in. Folks in a county in Oregon just voted down a property tax increase because they prefer to have 911 calls go to an answering machine. Even if they are answered there are no cops on duty to respond. Long live the tea party mentality

  7. 7.

    Cassidy

    @Redshirt: I think people view Green the same way they do Pretty Hate Machine; lots of nostalgia for the period, but not as amazing as Rolling Stone and VH1 says. Personally, I like Automatic for the People. I think they’re the difference between a band that wanted to be/ could be great and a band that really was great at songwriting.

  8. 8.

    Violet

    We’re already in the mid-90’s and it’s not yet June. Going to be a long summer. Ugh.

  10. 10.

    Berial

    @NickT:
    Does Krugman not pay attention to Republican election efforts at all?

    They won’t be all, “The blue states have better healthcare than us! We screwed up!”

    Hell no. They’ll be saying, “See! The liebrules are only giving benefits to THEIR SUPPORTERS! We aren’t being screwed by the decisions WE made. No! We’re great! It HAS to be those damn Democrat party cheating again!”.

    And the red states won’t learn a DAMN thing from their own decisions.

  11. 11.

    Maude

    It dropped 10 degrees in a half hour. The front came through.
    Obama didn’t salute a Marine, I read on Twitter. Uh, oh. Drag out the whiners for a group whine.

  14. 14.

    Redshirt

    @Cassidy: It’s not merely the quality of the album which makes it important. Rather, it was the major label deal and the arrival of “Alternative Music” into the mainstream, which then exploded a few years later with Nirvana, etc.

    Mainstream music was forever changed. REM led that charge.

  15. 15.

    gene108

    @Maude:

    It dropped 10 degrees in a half hour. The front came through.

    Yeah, damn….it sure did…that’s what I get for assuming we’re out of 50-degree weather at the end of May on the east coast. I can live with a rainy day, but a cold rainy day doesn’t belong at the end of May.

  16. 16.

    Redshirt

    @cleek: That happened for a lot of folks. I jumped off the REM bandwagon a couple of albums later.

    To this day, “Reckoning” is one of my favorite albums. It’s kind of a downer though.

  17. 17.

    22over7

    @Berial:

    This, all day long. There’s just no reasoning with those people. Or as my old dad used to say, “I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.”

  18. 18.

    eemom

    Have renewed acquaintance with REM recently thanks to XM radio. Great stuff….for example, Everybody Hurts, which I don’t think I’ve listened to since the ’90s. A little tear jerky to be sure, but some of us are into that.

    Also too — did anyone mention Michael Stipe on that vocalists thread the other night? Unique voice.

  19. 19.

    Maude

    @gene108:
    Tomorrow it will be 55 here. Warmer Sunday and Monday.
    When I left for the bus, it was mid sixties and then fifties when I came home. A woman got on the bus and said the temp dropped very fast. She was cold. I wore my light hoodie and was glad.

  20. 20.

    gogol's wife

    @Maude:

    It hasn’t hit us yet, it’s still warm and steamy. It’s hard to believe it’ll be in the 50s tomorrow and in the 30s at night!

  21. 21.

    Cassidy

    @Redshirt: I don’t dispute that.

    @Berial:

    No! We’re great! It HAS to be those damn Democrat party cheating again!”.

    And the red states won’t learn a DAMN thing from their own decisions.

    yeah, until they lose a loved one or a tornado flattens their homes….and nope, not even then. Crass, I know, but doesn’t make it less true. My sympathy lies with the people dragged into their madness.

  24. 24.

    NonyNony

    @Berial:

    Hell no. They’ll be saying, “See! The liebrules are only giving benefits to THEIR SUPPORTERS! We aren’t being screwed by the decisions WE made. No! We’re great! It HAS to be those damn Democrat party cheating again!”.

    You’ll get that from the Republican voters. But there will be a contingent of Republican movers and shakers who will have business ties in multiple states and who WILL see just how much it’s hurting their bottom line to not have the Obamacare markets implemented properly. Whether it comes from folks who own insurance companies or just people who have to pay out penalties to the Feds because the state sucks.

    We’re already seeing this in Ohio where longtime supporters of Republicans in the Ohio Chamber of Commerce are saying “hey we’re going to lose a lot of money if we don’t take the Medicaid expansion” and the Republicans are saying “screw you, Obama sucks!” This will hurt those businesses bottom lines. I think stuff like this has the opportunity to be a wedge issue to force business owners away from the radical reactionary conservatives that they tied themselves to under Reagan if the Democrats play their cards right.

    (Oh who am I kidding – anything that relies on Democrats showing long-term political savvy is probably just pie in the sky…)

  25. 25.

    Cassidy

    @Redshirt: I thinkt he bigger discussion is that “90’s Alternative” has to be one of the single greatest period of music. There was so much good stuff, it’s unbelievable.

  26. 26.

    raven

    @Cassidy: When I moved here in 84 they were playing a free show in a big outdoor venue here. As I walked up I thought, WOW the Byrds are here!

  27. 27.

    Steeplejack

    Looks like the weather here in NoVa will be quite pleasant this weekend. It’s only 54° right now, going up to 60° later today, but the predicted highs for the long weekend are 69°, 71° and 76°. Unseasonably cool, but pleasantly so. And the cloudy-windy-threat-of-rain thing right now is kind of bracing.

    That said, I have no big plans for the weekend. I have to go over to the brother’s house in a bit to let out the hounds, because brother and partner are on their way to Rehoboth Beach for the weekend. Partner’s aunt is coming over to housesit with the dogs, but she won’t arrive until late this afternoon. I need a haircut, but I have been telling myself the place will be crowded and therefore talking myself out of going. Maybe I will swing by on the way to dog patrol and eyeball the situation.

    And I sort of want to go to IKEA. I have been looking at a laptop stand to use with the cushy chair in front of the TV, plus I always enjoy looking at everything there. I fantasize about the people who might live in the different IKEA room tableaux. Not me, but, you know, young, hip up-and-comers.

  28. 28.

    Amir Khalid

    Right now, I’m watching Les Misérables, the 25th anniversary concert. Still in early part of Act 1. It’s amazing that Lea Salonga manages so much effective acting as Fantine, even while just standing there in costume. Almost makes up for the wretched casting of a Jonas Brother as Marius.

  29. 29.

    Roger Moore

    @NickT:
    KThug is almost certainly right about the effects, but wrong about the original political calculus. The reason the Republicans opposed HCR so vigorously is because they knew it was going to be a long term political disaster for them. The whole thing about opposing Medicaid expansion was about pleasing the teabaggers in the short term, not about any kind of long term political calculus. It’s the contemporary Republican MO: please The Base in the short term and damn the long term.

  30. 30.

    Maude

    @Steeplejack:
    I need to go and get a couple of window air conditioners. Of course, I didn’t do this last week. I may go tomorrow. There’s a small business that delivers and installs. I can’t carry an AC and can’t get it up the stairs.
    I’m very close to being addicted to B&N.
    I will probably do a camera walk and go look at junk in stores.

  31. 31.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @NonyNony: I think your analysis was pretty good up until the comment in (). So the clean air act was passed because the skies were just horrible. It worked so well that people these days don’t think we need a clean air act. The social safety net has worked well enough that people can argue that we shouldn’t be spending so much on it.

    How do you convince people that the reason they are doing well is because of things they are used to without taking it away from them? We can’t send half of the country to their rooms.

  32. 32.

    raven

    A couple of years ago their guitar tech got married and had a reception in a little bowling alley. There was a band and after a while the guys wandered in and played about 7 songs. There were maybe 150 people in this tiny room, jolly good show.

  33. 33.

    Steeplejack

    @Maude:

    I am loving the (central) A.C. in my new (since last August) apartment! I haven’t used it much, but it works very well. My previous place had an anemic, antiquated in-wall unit that desperately needed to be replaced, but it was actually preferable to suffer than to deal with the fucking insane landlord. I am so glad I am out of that place.

  34. 34.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @Amir Khalid: Do you actually think he’s bad at the part or do you just think he’s a Jonas? He tried out for the part, since he want to go into stage acting. I personally am under the impression that he needed Les Mis’ more than it needed him.

  35. 35.

    eemom

    @Steeplejack:

    I fantasize about the people who might live in the different IKEA room tableaux. Not me, but, you know, young, hip up-and-comers.

    heh. Well, I was never hip or an up and comer, but I WAS once young….and when I first moved to deecee as a 25 year old law school grad I had a little bachelorette pad in Adams Morgan with an IKEA living room, from the one in Petersburg.

    omfg, Reagan was still president then. [headdesk]

  36. 36.

    Redshirt

    @raven: Awesome! Please continue to share any REM stories you have. I’m completely jealous.

    I contemplated making an Athens pilgrimage back in the day, but, alas…

  37. 37.

    Shakezula

    Cool and cloudy in the elitist commie D/M/V. It is really weird that it is still so cool at the end of May. The plant life is thriving in the cooler temps and it could be a broiling nightmare out, so I’m not complaining.

    I am in a state of constant tension because I can’t believe we’ll get through the entire summer without doing time in the hellscape that is a DC summer. What if it is nice into July and suddenly BAM 10 Code Red days right in a row? The shock might kill us.

    Also wondering if anyone in Va. has seen anything of Brood II?

  38. 38.

    SatanicPanic

    @Cassidy: ooh are we enough to start saying that our era was the best? 90s actually were really good, but I wouldn’t stop at alternative- 90s rap was some of the best and 90s punk wasn’t bad either. 90s metal… errr… the less said about NuMetal the better.

  39. 39.

    MikeJ

    Yesterday on LGM there was a conversation about how some people don’t like it when their “thing” becomes popular. I remember the first time I heard an REM song on a commercial radio station. Pretty Persuasion. I was was fucking psyched. REM didn’t even get played on the on-commercial stations in Memphis that often. I had heard more different bands cover Radio Free Europe at that point than I had heard anybody anywhere play REM on the radio.

    Green was recorded at Ardent, where Big Star used to record. A friend who worked at Squash Blossom ( a health food store/restaurant) had a crush on Michael Stipe who would come in and get pesto pizza every day. REM would occasionally show up and play the Antenna Club unannounced. Pyramid guitars had a 196something Vox guitar with all sorts of cool switches and knobs I wanted to buy, but before I could save up the money that damned Peter Buck bought it. I’m sure he put it to better use than I would have.

    I liked Green. Hell, I liked Accelerate. Certainly not the same band that did Wolves, Lower, but it would be pretty fucking dull to do exactly the same thing for 30 years.

    That’s all my rambling for now.

  40. 40.

    quannlace

    Rain, rain, rain, thunder, rain, more rain, another thunderstorm, rain, rain, rain. For three straight days. My dog is giving her own ‘WTF’

  41. 41.

    Cassidy

    @SatanicPanic: Hehehe…Linkin’ Park has aged well. I think a bold pronouncement that 90’s music beats all this 60’s and 70’s hackery the olds like to talk about hands down, is in order.

  42. 42.

    raven

    @Redshirt: This was the first time Bill had played with the band in quite some time. I shot video but have always kept it private out of respect. I asked their manager if it would be ok to post them but he hasn’t told me what they say. Mike is way into sports and he pitched for the Georgia Bar team in the summer bar league and that was fun. The thing about Michael is that everyone is hypersensitive about not bugging him so it was really sad to see him sitting by himself at parties.

  43. 43.

    Berial

    @NonyNony: I hope you are right, but my fear is that those ‘mover and shakers’ at the state level are the ones being pushed out of the GOP by the Tea partiers who are supported by the Ultra wealthy who, more often than not, don’t even LIVE in the red states.

  44. 44.

    Amir Khalid

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):
    Nick Jonas got cast as Marius because he was the last Gavroche of the 1987-2003 Broadway run, and because his dad had some pull with Cameron Mackintosh. But his Marius lacks a strong voice and stage presence — especially playing opposite Sam Barks, the definitive Éponine of the past few years (and maybe of all time, since she’s Éponine in the movie as well). It’s because of Nick Jonas’ suckitude that Les Miz fans generally prefer the 10th anniversary concert.

  45. 45.

    raven

    @MikeJ: They recorded that Hindu Love Gods with Zevon up the street. I’d never heard of it till I read the reprehensible I’ll Sleep When I’m Dead. As much as I dislike Warren after reading that book I have to say one of my top 5 ever shows was him and a guitar player at the Georgia Theater.

  46. 46.

    SatanicPanic

    @Cassidy: Definitely. And woe be to anyone who tries to defend the 80s. Barf. Let’s get the generational wars started-

    The 60s were important because that’s when rock and roll became its own thing- no longer just a faster blues. Since I put Hip Hop on the same level as Rock and Roll (as any reasonable human should), you have to give the 90s the same level of respect- rap finally reached the point where it was no longer that 70s/80s junky mix of disco, rock and whatever else it was. It became its own thing. Ergo, the 90s were as important as the 60s.

    ETA- fixed some spelling

  51. 51.

    MikeJ

    @raven: To this day if you were to ask me to sing Raspberry Beret (something you should NOT under any circumstances do unless you are angry with your ears) I will sing the Hindu Love Gods version. I will then occasionally segue into Battleship Chains.

  52. 52.

    SatanicPanic

    @raven: I actually love the 70s, mostly because of punk rock, glam rock and ABBA. Oh and bubblegum music. I just like arguing over music because it’s fun, I’m not judgemental on what people actually like.

  55. 55.

    Shana

    @Steeplejack: I don’t know how to embed, but take a look at Guy Ben-Ner’s video art called “Stealing Beauty.” It’s all filmed in various IKEA stores in different room settings. Art Historian daughter and I caught an exhibit of his art at Mass MOCA a few years ago. Terrific!

  60. 60.

    Redshirt

    @raven: Wow! Amazing photos. Got any more?

    Also, Bill Berry is King of the Monobrow.

    And yes, the early 90’s were some of the best musical eras in all genres. Late 90’s? Not so sure.

    ETA: It’s funny to consider the locals so polite that Stipe never gets to talk with anyone. Ironic!

  62. 62.

    Mnemosyne

    I’ll go against the crowd and say that I like quite a bit of latter-day R.E.M. — “Nightswimming” and “It’s Been A Bad Day” are a couple of particular favorites.

    Have I mentioned I’m going to see They Might Be Giants on my birthday? ‘Cause I think I only mention it three times a day, so some people may not have heard yet. :-)

  64. 64.

    SatanicPanic

    @Cassidy: yup. We all grew up with “60’s are the greatest… blah blah blah” now it’s our turn to annoy the youths.

    Although seriously, I’m still going to be embarrassed for us when 4-Non Blondes plays at GenXer nostalgia events.

  65. 65.

    Cassidy

    @raven: I’ve honestly never listened to him besides anything that casually came on the radio. I couldn’t name a single Zevon song. I just like giving the audiophiles heartburn. I will listen to anything at least once, no matter what, sometimes several times to decide if I like it. Even today, I end up listening to a lot of Top 40 because of the kids and there are some gems in there.

  74. 74.

    burnspbesq

    @Redshirt:

    “Green” was one of the most pivotal albums in musical history. Debate/discuss.

    False. Murmur and Reckoning are the important, ground-breaking R.E.M. albums.

  79. 79.

    MikeJ

    @burnspbesq:

    False. Murmur and Reckoning are the important, ground-breaking R.E.M. albums.

    Everything after the Hib-Tone singles was a sellout, man.

  82. 82.

    Redshirt

    @burnspbesq: Those are better albums, no doubt. They are not as pivotal. “Green’s” importance is less about the songs and more about the shift in the music industry.

    “Green” was the first “alternative music” release by a major label and it opened the floodgates to entirely new artists and styles of music in the mainstream.

  85. 85.

    Cassidy

    @SatanicPanic: Well shit. We should probably plan this shit in advance and make sure we’re on the same page. I actually like the Beatles too.

    But, I do have a theory that rock stagnated some because they got so big in the early days of rock and roll. One of the things that made the 90’s great was it’s constant experimentation and integration of multiple genres. If the Beatles hadn’t happenned, we might have gotten there sooner.

  89. 89.

    SatanicPanic

    @Cassidy: I blame the 80s for rock and roll stagnating. Things were going well until hair metal. There were like 4 good mainstream rock and roll songs in that whole decade.

  90. 90.

    Cassidy

    @Amir Khalid: Honest to FSM, I’ve never willingly listened to anything he’s put out. Nothing against him, I don’t think he sucks or anything, I’ve just never crossed paths with his work. I imagine that I have heard some of it and would go “oh yeah..”. The last time I took musical advice from the BJer’s I subjected myself to Tom Waites and, to quote the wonderful Ellen Page in the role of Juno, it’s just noise.

  92. 92.

    Cassidy

    @Cassidy: And dammit, I want the edit button back.

    Also, for all it’s glam, hair metal (imo) has the best lineup of lead guitar players, hands down.

  93. 93.

    raven

    @Cassidy: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, you so funny GI.

    you need the edit button to send that bullshit to the scrapheap of history before someone reads it!

  94. 94.

    SatanicPanic

    @Cassidy: I like Talk Dirty to Me. And G’N’R. The rest, not so much. It was just such a narrow vision of what rock and roll could be and it dominated the airwaves for so long, it really crowded out everything else.

  96. 96.

    Berial

    How many big labels existed in the 60’s and how many existed in the 80s? If there were a lot fewer in the 80’s that may explain why so much of the music was the same.

    Personally I liked a lot of 80’s music. Still love “The Police”.

  99. 99.

    Redshirt

    @Berial: No doubt. There’s a ton of great music in every decade, if you know where to look. I think it’s more instructive to look at what was popular. As such, the 80’s as a whole was kinda weird/crap.

    The best REM is early REM. Hell they’re so old they could be considered a 70’s band.

  103. 103.

    gene108

    @NonyNony:

    You do realize you are advocating the DLC/Clinton strategy of appealing to business at the long term expense of other Democratic constituencies?

    I’m personally not against it, but plenty of current Democratic supporters aren’t in love with their party getting more in bed with busined.

  105. 105.

    gbear

    @MikeJ: I’ve got a copy of that 45. I bought it when it came out.

    I’ll toss in that my favorite REM record is Murmur. It was just so unexpected after the first EP. No one was expecting the wonderful variety that’s on that album.

  110. 110.

    p.a.

    I find myself playing ‘Fables…’ now more than any other REM. And ‘Automatic…’ has held up well, I think. ‘Nightswimming’ brought back memories of being 13, summer nights hopping the fence of Modern Pools and swimming in their demos, trying to talk the girls into skinny dipping. Funny that they seemed to need help getting over the fence to get into the place, but when we pulled off our trunks they got over the fence and out of there all by themselves!

  111. 111.

    Wilson Heath

    Listened to Green all the way through this afternoon for the first time in probably 24 years, inspired by this thread. Never bought the album, though I heard it plenty back then. It’s a much deeper album then I remember it being, though I’m not sure I ever would have gotten that back in my teens. I think there’s definitely something of a jump in the songwriting that ended up leading towards Out of Time and Automatic.

    And observing that undercuts a favorite pet theory of mine that Automatic for the People might have had something to do with R.E.M. chasing some of the vibe of Talk Talk’s Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock. (Yes, that Talk Talk. Start with the first track of either album if you don’t believe me.) Who knows. Maybe a factor, but Green came out just a couple of months after Eden and gave hints already of where they were going.

    (BTW, the 25th Anniversary Deluxe Edition has a concert that I’m pretty sure is exactly the one they syndicated for radio back in the day, but it doesn’t include their cover of Academy Fight Song by Mission of Burma. Lame. Just play the fricking licensing, Warners.)

  112. 112.

    JR in WV

    @raven:

    Thanks! That is awesome! Los Lobos is a great show band, much better in person than recorded, as you can see here. They’re all 25 years older now, olds in every sense of that word. I’ve seen Los Lobos at least twice here in Chalreston, WV.

    Thank FSM for Mountain Stage, introduced us to Taj Mahal, Arlo Guthrie, Los Lobos, REM, Sarah McLaughlin and so many more. Go see some live music TONIGHT!

    Thanks for showing us the YouTube concerts! 45 last night here, turned the HVAC back to heat at bedtime and very glad of it. Nothing strange about the weather – nothing to worry about if there is. Right!

Comments are closed.