An unusually harsh and personal war of words erupted on Sunday, even for the current hyper-partisan atmosphere in Washington, DC, with one of President Obama’s top advisers bringing up the 40-year-old criminal record of the Republican congressman leading the investigation into alleged IRS abuses.
“Strong words from Mr Grand Theft Auto and suspected arsonist/insurance swindler,” tweeted David Plouffe, the political guru (and unofficial adviser) for President Obama, referring to the chairman of the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif.
“And loose ethically today,” Plouffe ended his tweet, linking to a story about Issa answering questions on CNN’s “State of the Union” with Candy Crowley about the controversy over IRS staffers targeting conservative groups for scrutiny, in which Issa referred to White House press secretary Jay Carney as a “paid liar.”
I like how it only turned nasty when Plouffe responded. Most of us think it was kind of nasty for Issa to call Carney a paid liar, but hey, I don’t live in the beltway, which always has a GOP frame of mind. Not to mention this is par for the course for Republicans since the Kenyan socialist was elected, but I guess now it’s nasty because a Democrat had the temerity to respond.
Also too, both sides do it.
raven
Go for the short hairs and fuck these whiny bitches. Last week it was that punk Rience or whatever his name is.
piratedan
but John, Issa has a genuine passion for the rule of law, a man of conviction(s), so to speak
NickT
And we care about Jake The Self-Fellator’s opinions because…?
BGinCHI
So, Tapper assumes that folks like Issa and others in the GOP are name-calling dicks, but doesn’t say anything because they act according to type.
But then won’t call them dicks when someone responds to their dickishness.
What would Tapper say to a bully on a playground that knocked down his kid?
Baud
I seem to recall that the fake 40-year old war record of one John Kerry was treated quite differently in the press.
NickT
@piratedan:
He’s setting his own hair on fire with them as we speak.
MattF
You see, it’s not crazy and nasty when the Republicans do it because Republicans are lunatics, and lunatics can’t help saying crazy, nasty things. I wish I was joking, but that really seems to be the reasoning here.
NickT
@BGinCHI:
“Thank you kindly, Mr Koch, the little bastard had it coming to him!”
BGinCHI
@NickT: And if the kid fights back he’s a monster and probably has union sympathies.
ETA: Jake, why do you love bullies and hate your own children?
JPL
@BGinCHI: If Jake could make a few bucks, he’d have his child apologize.
lamh35
Ugh, can’t stand Jake Tapper. His only claim to fame in my book is that he used to date Monica Lewinsky, other than that, couldn’t stand him at ABC still can’t stand him at CNN (and based on what I hear about his ratings, no one else can stand him either). He, is the epitome of the “broken clock” theory, every so often he shows a sign of integrity, but then once that doesn’t get him the recognition that he wants, then he reverts back to form.
Anyway, like I said in the previous thread, everytime I read Plouffe’s tweet, my minds says “F*&^ yeah!”
Tonal (visible) Crow
I thought everyone knew that whatever it is, it’s not a crime for a Republican to do it, and it’s always a crime for anyone else to do it, because shut up you libtard.
geg6
I want to marry David Plouffe and have his children if for no other reason than that tweet.
West of the Rockies
I always come away with the same take-away from this type of story. Most Republicans see their political party as essentially good, honest, honorable, and intelligent; they see “the other side” as utterly incompetent, dishonest, stupid, dishonorable. Facts do nothing to dissuade them from this perspective. Tell them, for instance, that 97% of climate scientists say global warming is real and largely human-caused, the response is, “Yeah, but Sarah Palin says it’s all a bunch of hooey!” Show them the video of a Republican congressman sexually assaulting an unconscious goat, and they will say, “Yeah, well, Chappaquiddick!”
If a conservative does ponder his party’s short-comings, he is immediately and forever a RINO, a traitor, a lame-losing-liar.
There seems to be no real meaningful dialogue with these people. And in the balance hangs so much: the economy, the environment, justice….
I need a friggin’ beer.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Tapper’s a douche. You think for a moment he didn’t read Ryan Lizza’s article? I’m sure he’s flushed it down the memory hole, or maybe it escaped his tiny little attention span, kinda like when he went form his famously petulant and self-agrandizing “Where have you been?” on gun control to not even noticing when the Senate Republicans voted as one* to filibuster Caitlin Halligan because the NRA told them to. Like most in his zip code and pay grade, he’s a moron, a coward and a courtier. Send him to back to 17th Century Versailles and he’d be proud to be the bearer of Louis XIV ass-wiping cloth.
*including the twelve he bought dinner for to get Tom “Bourbon” Brokaw and Bob “Norma Desmond” Woodward to Shut The Fuck Up. Didn’t work.
BGinCHI
@West of the Rockies: You need a Freedom beer.
BGinCHI
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: NO WAY Erich von Stroheim would have worked for Bob Woodward. That dude had standards.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@BGinCHI: How ’bout Bernstein to play the butler? He could probably use a steady job, from what I hear.
“I’m STILL big! It’s the SCANDALS that got small!”
pokeyblow
Obama must be pissed. He doesn’t like being mean to republicans. He prefers writing them love letters, like the one he wrote to Tom Coburn. He also likes quoting Reagan, apparently one of his heroes.
Give ’em Head, Barack!
Baud
Plouffe’s tweet is worse than Watergate.
BGinCHI
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Billy Wilder Jr. on line 3.
lamh35
@West of the Rockies: speaking of Sarah Palin, but did my eyes deceive me or did some university actually invite Palin as a commencement speaker this year. I though I saw something on Martin Bashir’s MSNBC show, but maybe it was old footage
Turgidson
Baud
@lamh35:
Lots of right-wing colleges should could have been invited to.
Turgidson
Ugh, something went amiss and I need edit button for my above comment, which was in reply to BG’s question at #4: (“What would Tapper say to a bully on a playground that knocked down his kid?”)
Baud
@Baud:
@lamh35:
Ugh. Should say “she could have been invited to.”
Mnemosyne
Don’t forget, bringing up the fact that Obama once ate dog when he lived in Indonesia as a child is fair game, but pointing out that Darrell Issa was convicted of car theft as a young adult is totally not fair! Because eating what your family serves you at dinner brings your entire character into question, while committing crimes is just one of those things that happens, you know?
BGinCHI
@Mnemosyne: White boys will be boys.
lamh35
Robert Gibbs: Darrell Issa Made Himself ‘the Biggest Joke in All of Washington’
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Aww, did someone say something mean about your hero, Darrell Issa? I can’t imagine any other reason you would be so desperate to change the subject away from Issa’s well-documented past of car thievery and insurance fraud.
Eric U.
@Mnemosyne: thought he was just indicted
Just looked at the wiki page about government scandals. Reagan and the elder and lesser Bushies had a fairly impressive list of actual scandals with convictions and jail time. Obama has “scandals” that are “controversial”
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: Are you kidding me? I hate Issa, and think he should be called a car thief by every thinking American each time he is mentioned.
I’m just surprised that Obama allowed anyone in his administration to say anything not super-nice about republicans.
He’s so nice to republicans, he supports letting them get away with murdering over a hundred thousand Iraqis because, well, let’s look forward!!!
Give ’em Head, Barry!
gogol's wife
@BGinCHI:
LOLOLOLOLOL
TenguPhule
“Thank you Sir. May I have another as I slavishly wash your balls with my tongue, Sir!”
matt
It’s only news when Democrats push back against the streams of bilge directed their way 24/7 by the GOP.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Uh-huh. And you were a Democrat until 9/11 changed everything, amirite? Pull the other one, Republican troll. Go blow your pal Issa a few more times.
dance around in your bones
So, it’s ok for Repubs/TP’ers to say any damn fool thing/conspiracy/scandal they can dream up, but if a Democrat states FACTS on the record it’s OMG! the tone! and lack of civility! and did you see how RUDE he was?! and SO divisive!
Unh-huh. Tell me more.
Bobby Thomson
Why the surprise, Cole? It’s not like this is anything new for that asshole. He’s a perfect example of the Peter Principle.
BGinCHI
@pokeyblow: Make sure no one gets to the left of you. You can do it!
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
To be totally fair, Issa was only accused of grand theft auto and arson for profit; he was never convicted of either one.
belieber
Clueless Cole is SHOCKED….SHOCKED that Jake Tapper is acting like Jake Tapper again.
dmsilev
@Mnemosyne:
Henry Hyde established the baseline that for Republicans anything that happened before age 50 counts as a “youthful indiscretion” and it’s terribly rude to bring it up. Democrats, on the other hand, are responsible for not only everything that happened to them since conception but also any real or imaginary sins of their parents and grandparents.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Roger Moore: and Plouffe didn’t mention the hit-and-run with serious injuries that Issa bought his way out of I mean settled out of court. Downright Broderian of him.
Omnes Omnibus
@Roger Moore: IIRC the prosecution dropped the GTA charges both times he was indicted, but he did plead out to some lesser offense in one of the cases. So, to the best of my knowledge, convicted criminal it is.
Jay
I’m such an old geek, I can remember when the Coulter wannabe Debbie Schlussel took a steaming dump on Issa.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
Nobody ever proved Obama ate dog meat, either, but that was supposed to be scandalous during the election. And yet you tell those same “scandalized” Republicans about Mike Huckabee’s son torturing a dog to death and suddenly it’s all “youthful indiscretion” and “he didn’t know better.”
(Edited to fix my sentence — I had two halves of two thoughts stuck together.)
NickT
@Mnemosyne:
Don’t even mention what ol’ Huck did to those squirrels before he cooked and ate them!
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: What a silly person you are.
As it happens, I’ve been rabidly anti-republican since 1980. I was delighted, in November 2008, to see the American people soundly reject punk-ass Bush and his “ideas.” That’s largely because I didn’t feel very good about my country killing all those people so our rectum-spawned president could fondle Saddam Hussein’s gun and perhaps imagine his father felt pride for him.
Obama felt differently, however, and kicked off his governing by telling the world that he was a-OK with all that killing and that America, on his authority, would have no truck with war-crimes punishment.
If you think that’s all groovy, we disagree. Not going to worry me one bit.
Todd
@dance around in your bones:
Their Heartland generated simple, naive and passionate beliefs (no matter how logically misguided, racist or factually incorrect) must be respected, because First Amendment. And America. And the Founders.
The Other Chuck
Issa also got rich selling, get this, car alarms. Everyone who’s ever had their peace and quiet shattered by a car alarm should be given the opportunity to kick Issa in the junk.
Jamey
I think the issue here is that Issa is a criminal. Plouffe reminding us of this only underscores how flimsy Issa’s “moral authority” to judge the acts of others is.
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
It was actually a different case that he pleaded out on. He was stopped for driving the wrong way on a one way street and was found to have a gun in his glovebox. He pleaded from carrying a concealed weapon down to possession of an unregistered handgun.
Todd
@Mnemosyne:
Neil Horsley actually admitted to fucking a mule, and still managed to maintain status in the militant Right to Life movement.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/neal-horsley-mule-loving-republican-can
Is it true?” Colmes asked.
“Hey, Alan, if you want to accuse me of having sex when I was a fool, I did everything that crossed my mind that looked like I…”
AC: “You had sex with animals?”
NH: “Absolutely. I was a fool. When you grow up on a farm in Georgia, your first girlfriend is a mule.”
AC: “I’m not so sure that that is so.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Roger Moore: Okay then. I’ll still go with convicted criminal.
Keith
On the other hand, Ron Fournier of all people tore Issa a new one in the National Review for cherry picking data and lying himself.
dance around in your bones
@Todd: “You must respect my Insanitay!”
♪ Free to be me and me! (YOU, however, not so much) ♫
Anna in PDX
I just looked up both the Grand Theft Auto issue and the insurance fraud. In the insurance fraud he was not apparently accused of a crime but the insurance co. only paid out a tenth of the value of the building because they suspected arson. In the GTA which was when he was quite young, he apparently assisted his brother, and it ended up not getting prosecuted, and he has since completely blamed his brother for it publicly. What a tool.
NickT
Speaking of framing, someone is putting Chris Christie’s nuts in a vice:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/drudge-puts-christie-on-notice-whose-side-are?ref=fpblg
Anna in PDX
This article is interesting:
http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/001007.htm
BobS
@pokeyblow: They aren’t fond of people who open the curtain on the great and powerful Oz around here, you know.
ChrisNYC
Good effort but even Jake Tapper can’t save Issa.
pokeyblow
@BobS: I’m not worried about being popular. A lot of these inconsequentials are quite rude, however, and I don’t like rudeness.
Roger Moore
@Anna in PDX:
The first GTA was when he was relatively young. The second was almost a decade later, when that was less of an excuse.
Yatsuno
@geg6: Funny thing is I think John would let you. His wife might have an issue with it however.
Comrade Jake
I recall when Tapper made the move to CNN, more than a few people I respect on Twitter (San Drezner comes to mind) were all like, wow, major coup for CNN, Tapper is one of the best in the business.
To which I responded: seriously?
Chyron HR
@pokeyblow:
How does it feel to know that you had one chance to get rid of Obummer in 2012 and you completely failed?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@BobS: Just not much patience for tantrumy children who can’t get it through their marble skulls that “behind the curtain” there are things like the Constitution, a bicameral legislature, and the American electorate.
Or maybe we’re all just afraid to keep it real, like you do. Man.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Uh-huh. You’ve managed to pick up some of the lingo, but you’re really having a hard time keeping the mask in place since every single time a Republican is criticized, you feel compelled to pop up and tell us all that Obama is, like, totally worse. It’s becoming a tic at this point — bad Republican action/pokeyblow shows up to tell us all that Obama’s even worse.
Is there any current Republican you dislike more than Obama? Can you name just one? It’s obviously not Darrell Issa, since you were unable to watch people criticize Issa for more than a few comments before you felt compelled to try and draw attention away from poor iddle Darrell being treated so mean.
So tell us — is there any current office-holding Republican that you dislike more than Obama?
muddy
@Mnemosyne: All of them, Katie.
Anna in PDX
The insurance fraud seems pretty egregious. There was evidence of accelerants at the scene and also he had increased the insurance by over 400% less than three weeks previous to the fire.
I agree the GTA thing is serious, and that he was not a minor (I believe the second one happened during or right after he was in the military). As he runs on a law and order kind of attitude, and probably thinks we should prosecute minors as adults for serious crimes, his whole past makes him a bit more than just a garden variety hypocrite.
The article I linked also reminds people that he said that 9/11 responders should not get Federal aid for their health needs.
pokeyblow
@Chyron HR:
What on Earth are you talking about?
I wanted him to win in 2012, and was quite distressed after his first, disastrous (and typically kind-to-republicans) debate performance.
You know, I can feel that way and still find him significantly imperfect. And carry on with my life.
It’s good being competent.
Anna in PDX
@Anna in PDX: Sorry about this, I was responding to #63 Roger Moore.
BobS
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Which one of those stipulate the handjobs for Reagan’s ghost?
Chris
@muddy:
In what respect, Charlie?
NickT
@pokeyblow:
You should try the experience sometime.
FlipYrWhig
@pokeyblow:
With luck, you’ll get there someday.
FlipYrWhig
@BobS: It’s ectoplasm, not erectoplasm.
jl
I may have missed it above, and if so, sorry for repeat, but only thing I can find on substance of Issa’s charges is on TPM.
Bottom line is that Issa is using misdirection. Issa says ‘Washington’ meaning something sinister. When what the record shows is that IRS agent interviewed was referring to was an IRC compliance office located in ‘Washington’. So, as before, unless something totally unexpected turns up, Issa has nothing and is desperate that he has delivered total zip nada nothing on his big promise of 24/7 scandals, so is BSing and being (to be very polite) careless.
The fact that Issa is trotting out wild IRS conventions to outrage the rubes is another clue that he has nothing.
Unpacking Darrell Issa’s Latest IRS Claims
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/06/unpacking_darrell_issas_latest_irs_claims.php
NickT
@FlipYrWhig:
I can see you have a great mind!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@BobS: that was part of Obama’s secret college transcript. RAHM! buried it in the veal pen and parked a bus over it so only bold truth tellers like you and JANE! would ever see it. At the end of the Whitey tape, Michelle and Tony Reszko talk all about it, right before they teach the Dartmouth frat boys how to chant “Iron my shirt!”. All to a soundtrack by Donnie McClurkin.
I almost miss MyDD
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: Mitt Romney, John McCain, Newt Gingrich, Mark Kirk, Ted Cruz.
I honestly don’t think I can name a republican politician I like more than Obama. Their philosophy sickens me. I’ll reveal a bit that there are two primary sources in my own experience for feeling this way:
First, although I’ve been quite successful in my career, I wasn’t born to wealth or privilege (far from either), and I have a deep animus toward the notion that we can be a fair, democratic society while Tugg (whatever) Romney and Paris Hilton are born into vast fortunes. Secondly, I have a severely handicapped younger brother and I was a sensitive young man when Reagan came into office on a program of defunding whatever help he could for the mentally-disabled.
So, just like the republican who cares about gay people when their child comes out, I guess my personal experience is colored in my politics.
I think trolling is a very amusing concept. I used to love trolling on Fox News comment boards, before they shut those down a year or so ago. I don’t troll here, I post what I think.
The prophet Nostradumbass
Something funny about someone complaining about others being rude, when their very first comment in the thread contains “Give ‘em Head, Barack!” Or, in another thread, “Give ‘em Head, Barry!”
jl
@jl: Why can’t I edit my own damn comment? Anyway, sorry for typos.
pokeyblow
@The prophet Nostradumbass: That is correct, IN A THREAD. I used to be more polite, before learning that the more sensitive among the inconsequentials had deemed criticism of Obama a no-go area.
I’d also claim a fine distinction between vulgarity, which I readily own, and ad hominem rudeness. I try not to open with that, and if I do, it is only directed at someone who “threw the first stone.”
Now, really, there are better things to do than worry about me.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Funny how you couldn’t think of five current Republican office holders and had to fall back on a couple who haven’t held office in over 10 years.
But, hey, keep on trollin’. Just know that some of us realize why you just can’t stop yourself from trying to deflect attention away from Republican bad deeds every time they come up.
mclaren
And of course when I advocate this kind of tough response from progressive Democrats, everyone on this forum clutches their pearls and falls into a swoon.
Oooh! The shrill tone! Ahhh! The horrible ranting!
Mclaren’s off his meds again.
Rhetorically speaking, Democrats need to rip conservatives’ heads off and shit down their necks. That’s the only way to deal with bullies. Hit ’em with the verbal equivalent of a nail-studded baseball bat in the face, and they back off. Otherwise, the bullying just gets worse.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: I just thought of the first republicans who popped into my head. I saw Mark Kirk had made a public appearance recently, after having a stroke some time back.
Why is it so important for you to believe I am a republican?
For Christ’s sake, my biggest beef with Obama is his deflection of republican misdeeds regarding the Iraq war!
Shit, I don’t care if you don’t like me, and I’m happy to play dozens if you want to call me names. But don’t be willfully stupid, OK?
NickT
@pokeyblow:
Well, would you look at that, our own little conservatroll is squealing about civility suddenly. Truly, the conservative “mind” is wondrously predictable these days.
Chris
@pokeyblow:
This on a blog whose host-in-chief has been beating the “DROOOOOOONEZ!” horse for years now.
Obots are we, by your command. So say we all.
Mike E
Pokey is all trolls to all people. And double jointed, apparently.
Kay
@jl:
It’s dumb. It’s taking words that could have meaning or import, “targeting” or “Washington” and giving them the worst possible meaning.
I don’t even know if it’s working, if the intent was to fire up the Tea Party base.
They had this ridiculous meeting/press conference in Ohio and the whole thing was about how they elected Kasich and Portman and Republicans owe them absolute fealty.
They’re mad at Kasich over the health care law and Portman over his gay son.
Here, it just seems to be another opportunity to air their greivances and proclaim how important and vital they are.
I guess it “gets Republicans out” but I haven’t seen any evidence of it.
NickT
@Mike E:
He’s flexible too – any seat on the short bus is fine for good ol’ Pokey!
pokeyblow
@Mike E: Now I am become death, destroyer of worlds.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Dude, it’s embarrassingly obvious. Don’t worry, I won’t mention it again. I’ll just snigger every time I notice you desperately trying to point at the shiny object over there to distract people from the elephant you’re trying to hide behind your back.
And yet you felt compelled to come into a thread about the media ball-washing Republicans over the IRS “scandal” and complain about Obama. What, exactly, did this have to do with the Iraq War? Nothing, except that your knee-jerk reaction to any criticism of the Republicans is to try and redirect the complaint towards Obama and away from the Republicans.
NickT
@Mnemosyne:
Pokey’s such a classic “conservative” – it has to set up these bizarre little hierarchies of why your rightness is less important than its wrongness and is obsessed with defining what is civil and what is rude.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: Obvious? Apart from criticizing Obama for being too fucking nice to republicans, what have I ever said to make you think I’m a republican?
Obvious, right? It should be easy. Let’s hear it. Put up or shut up, you know?
BobS
@Jim, Foolish LiteralistSorry-I didn’t realize you shared Obama’s affection for Reagan.
Mike E
You is become wack, destroyer of underpants gnomes.
pokeyblow
@NickT: You need to be meaner, or smarter, if you want my attention.
Tonal (visible) Crow
@pokeyblow: You’re a Republican because you criticized Obama on Balloon-Juice.
NickT
@pokeyblow:
You should have said that before I made you squawk like a parrot with diarrhea. Try harder, my incontinent little feathery friend.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: My point is, Obama should have been smart enough to know what I, fucking pokeyblow, knew long before 2008, which is that the republicans would never deal with him in good faith.
He had a country sick of republican BS in 2009. He made a decision to reacharound to the republicans, letting their crimes skate and pretending they were a legitimate political voice.
While Obama bought time for his good friends like Tom Coburn, the completely routed republican party came up with their birth-certificate conspiracy. And from that small beginning, they have come back much stronger than they ever should have.
Sorry to break it to you, but every bit of republican assholeness Obama has to deal with is significantly his part. He’s too stupid, or too nice, or thinks too highly of himself as a uniting figure, or something… and he decided not to kick the republicans while they were down.
And now America is all the more fucked for it.
Give ’em Head, Barry!
Omnes Omnibus
@BobS: Reagan often spoke admiringly of FDR.
@pokeyblow: Dude, what’s with the homophobic imagery?
Elie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Great reply to this fool
BobS
@pokeyblow: The “something” is that Obama is what a sane Republican looks like.
pokeyblow
@Omnes Omnibus: What specifically? Show me something wrong, and I’ll apologize.
But, how about a substantive response to what I said? Surely, since it’s obvious I’m a republican, making the case will be easy.
Tonal (visible) Crow
Republicans pulled the birther BS during the 2008 campaign, and have never really let it go.
I don’t think the birther BS helped Republicans with anyone but their base’s base. Do you have evidence indicating otherwise?
NickT
@pokeyblow:
Say something substantive and you can ask for a substantive response. Or you can keep going with the homophobic trollery and militant ignorance.
Make your choice.
Omnes Omnibus
@pokeyblow:
Seriously, you don’t see it? I call BS. Oh yeah, find a link to me calling you a Republican.
pokeyblow
@Tonal (visible) Crow: Only my recollection. For a long time, I recall hearing about Obama’s birth certificate as basically the unique “particular, documentary” scandal (not counting that Obama was a Marxist, Bill Ayers, and so on). My impression is, the birth-certificate business kept people on freerepublic occupied and not-quite-defeated in the days before Ted Kennedy died (and, of course, BENGHAZI, the IRS doing-its-job scandal, and so on).
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Since you’ve obviously been skimming my comments I’ll say it again:
Every time Republicans are criticized, you show up to complain about Obama.
Every. Time.
There is no criticism allowed of Republicans without you presenting your claims of why Obama is worse.
Clear enough for you? Maybe you should be asking yourself why your relentless and persistent defense of Republicans is making people assume you’re a Republican. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is not actually a workable political position.
pokeyblow
@Omnes Omnibus: I assumed you would help out your friend Mnemosyne.
Sounds like you don’t subscribe to that particular bit of dullness. I am pleased.
Chris
@pokeyblow:
Sure;
There’s something pretty fucking funny about someone dropping a completely off-topic tangent (the same one, mind you) on two consecutive threads and then mewling “address my points, libs!” Also, too.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: As I said, I believe strongly that Obama gave cover to a vastly weakened republican party, and I believe it is worthwhile not to forget that.
You know, in case he might someday want to learn not to be so trusting of car thieves and such.
mclaren
@pokeyblow:
Asking Mnemosyne not to be willfully stupid is like asking a fish not to swim or a bird not to fly. Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly, Mnemosyne’s gotta spew grotesquely dumb gibberish in service of her David-Brooks-like pronouncements that seem moderate and sane until you think about ’em for more than 3 seconds…at which point you realize her posts are just more fellation of the billionaires and giant monopoly corporations and Washington D.C. inside-the-beltway unwise Common Wisdom.
NickT
@pokeyblow:
So, still nothing of substance, just the toxic sludge accumulating in your resentful little brain-pan.
The surprise, the shock, the horror!
Or maybe not.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: Further, if I’m talking with some teabagger and he/she complains about the debt, I’m going to say “well, Reagan believed Laffer’s nonsense, and Cheney said deficits don’t matter, and those Bush wars weren’t free, and we were plenty prosperous with higher taxes under Eisenhower.”
I’m going to say those things EVERY TIME. It doesn’t mean the debt isn’t a bad thing.
And I’m going to remind you that the republicans wouldn’t be as strong as they are today without the cover Obama gave them starting in 2009. It doesn’t mean republican assholery isn’t a bad thing. It’s a terrible thing. I believe that, I trust you believe that. I’m not sure Obama does, however.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Good to know that conservative Democrats don’t exist in your fantasy world, so it wasn’t Max Baucus and Joe Lieberman that Obama was trying to keep happy. Because Baucus and Lieberman and Ben Nelson and the Blue Dog Caucus don’t exist in your fantasy world. Nope, it’s nothing but liberal, loyal Democrats who were chomping at the bit to have single-payer healthcare, so the only explanation is that Obama was playing to Republicans. Because there are no conservative Democrats like Bart Stupak. He was just a figment of our imagination, amirite?
Puh-lease. Just admit it, at least to yourself — you keep obsessively defending Republicans against attacks from the mean ol’ Democrats like David Plouffe because you are one.
NickT
@Mnemosyne:
I have an odd feeling that pokeyblow exists at the intersection of Ann Althouse’s liberalism and Michelle Malkin’s conservatism.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: Silly person. I’ve explained myself clearly, I believe. Please let me know if something in #117 is unclear.
PsiFighter37
I love it when Democrats start being ‘uncivil’, aka bringing up unpleasant truths, and the Villagers and their GOP enablers start squealing like the chickenshits they are.
What a bunch of WATBs.
Jeremy
@BobS: Obama has no affection for Reagan. He said that Reagan transformed the country’s politics in a way Nixon and Clinton did not. He said even though he disagreed with a lot of his policies he admired his ability to change the course of America. And he said he wanted to be that kind of transformational leader,
Maybe emo liberals should read and understand the context before spewing BS.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh35:
This list isn’t necessary comprehensive (nor necessarily accurate, for that matter), but I don’t see Sarah Palin’s name on it at a quick glance.
(I do like that Brian Williams is described as a “new anchor.” I guess that’s only in comparison to Tom Brokaw.)
Omnes Omnibus
@Jeremy:
Oddly, that is the way Reagan spoke of FDR.
pokeyblow
@Jeremy: Crazy ol’ pokeyblow thinks Obama had the option to not even invoke Reagan, you know? Or perhaps to point out — by name — that Reagan’s policies led us directly into our current bankrupt state.
Oh… wait, I forgot. He couldn’t do that,, because a) Joe Lieberman, or b) he was black, or c) he would get shot. Just pulling a few excuses I’ve seen here out of the fishbowl.
Jeremy
@Mnemosyne: Thank you !
Obama was negotiating with conservative democrats in the Senate in order to pass big ticket items like ACA. There were not enough votes for Single payer and it had no chance of passing which is why Clinton, Edwards, and Obama campaigned on a bill along the lines of ACA with a public option.
The public option was replaced with non profit options because conservative democrat senators vowed to kill the bill if it contained a public option.
The emo liberals can’t stand the facts because all they do is blame Obama and never hold the proper people accountable.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as well as, you know, the American people, who supported the Iraq War by a margin of about 3-1, and don’t have a history of admitting they’re wrong, especially where “the troops” are concerned. Or 2006, when Nancy Pelosi did something politically stupid but very pragmatic when she said “Impeachment is off the table”. She shouldn’t have said it, but it was.
I actually do think that for the sake of history, if nothing else, Obama, and other Dems, and even a few Republicans, should have pushed harder for official, on-the-record hearings about Iraq, but anyone who thinks that would have led to indictments, much less convictions, is kidding themselves.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Sure:
Again, I love how Congressional Democrats are completely absent from your fantasy world. It’s just Obama and the Republicans and no one else exists. I mean, we certainly didn’t end up with the budget mess in 2010 because Congressional Democrats (including, sadly, my senator Barbara Boxer) refused to write a budget, did we? No, of course not — it all happened because Obama Sux, QED.
A very Republican way of thinking.
pokeyblow
@Jeremy: “…never hold the proper people accountable.”
LMAO!
I hear George W. Bush is suffering terribly for his crimes down in Preston Hollow.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Shhh. You’re going to ruin pokeyblow’s fantasy construction of what Obama said about Reagan and why he said it by bringing, like, facts’n’stuff into it.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: I don’t think those millions of people in the streets of Washington freezing their collective asses off to see Obama inaugurated in 2009 were Liebermanites.
Obama’s alliances, Obama’s friendships, with Lieberman, with Tom Coburn, and so on, are some I strongly disapprove of.
You’re apparently OK with them; that’s fine. Doesn’t tell me very much about you specifically. Yes, you’re clearly a silly person, but beyond that I don’t know much.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: I’m not the one who brought up Obama’s praise for Reagan. It’s not a big part of my polemic against Obama’s republican-coddling, although it is extremely unsavory.
Jeremy
@Omnes Omnibus: True ! Reagan said the same thing about FDR.
pokeyblow
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If Obama has his way, we’ll never know.
Look forward, not backward, ya know?
Jeremy
@pokeyblow: Wow ! You’re either a troll or an idiot. Obama was never friends with Lieberman so please stop spewing lies. Also, being friends with Coburn means nothing when liberals like Ted Kennedy were friendly with Conservatives like Orrin Hatch.
You can still be friends with someone but disagree with them politically. I have friends who have different viewpoints like many people.
pokeyblow
@Jeremy: WOW!
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Democrat-turned-independent Sen. Joe Lieberman managed to keep his Senate committee chairmanship in part because President-elect Barack Obama didn’t want to punish him for supporting Sen. John McCain, Lieberman said Tuesday.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/18/lieberman.senate/
Chris
@pokeyblow:
I’m pretty sure they weren’t sitting in the Senate or the House of Representatives, either.
Jeremy
@pokeyblow: Yeah Obama has coddled them so much that he beats them twice and was the last Democrat in decades to win 51 % + of the vote twice, passes big time legislation, and develops a large new democratic coalition that is growing and will have an effect on politics for decades.
Just because Obama’s doesn’t fit the stereotype of an angry black man doesn’t mean he is weak.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
They also didn’t have to work with Lieberman and convince him to support healthcare reform … which, after some fits and starts, Lieberman ultimately did.
But, hey, getting 40 million people health insurance isn’t nearly as important as grinding the government to a halt so you can stomp on some Republicans, amirite?
So you disapprove of Obama allying himself with Senate Democrats like Lieberman, and also with Senate Republicans like Coburn?
We only have two parties. If he wasn’t suppose to ally himself with Democrats and also wasn’t supposed to ally himself with Republicans, what was he supposed to do, exactly?
Wait, let me guess — he should have “used the bully pulpit” and “taken it to the people” and then Congress totally would have done everything he wanted without Obama even having to ask. Because being president is magic like that.
NickT
@Jeremy:
Funny how pokeyblow shuts up the minute facts enter the picture, isn’t it?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: What state did Lieberman represent? What is one of its main industries?
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
What industry does Hadassah Lieberman make a very nice living lobbying for?
Jeremy
@pokeyblow: He didn’t remove him moron because if the Democrats kicked him out he wouldn’t vote for ANY Democratic legislation.
I will repeat it again. If they kicked Lieberman out he would have voted with the republican obstructionist and blocked all legislation out of revenge.
Also that action doesn’t mean he was friends with the guy.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: Better to use the bully pulpit and tell America that it’s OK to launch illegitimate wars and kill hundreds of thousands.
You seem absolutely fine with that. How come?
You characterize any investigation/hearings on the Iraq War as “stomp[ing] some Republicans”. Is that how you feel?
NickT
@Jeremy:
“Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.”
pokeyblow
@Jeremy: Yeah, it doesn’t look like a friendly gesture one bit.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: Not insurance? That would be shocking.
/Louis Renault
NickT
@pokeyblow:
Still flailing, kid. Your problem is that your right hand is weak, your feet are slow and you’ve got a glass jaw.
gbear
Does everyone realize that all this attention is going to make pokeyblow laugh and laugh all night until his parents tell him to shut the fuck up and go to sleep?
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: Seriously, I won’t claim to have read even a tiny fraction of what you’ve posted here over x years. But I’m curious… are you satisfied that Obama did the right thing regarding Iraq War investigations? When he said “look forward, not backward,” did you think “yeah, that’s the right thing to do” ??
Omnes Omnibus
@gbear: Yeah, but I have had a headache all day, I don’t feel much like reading, and I need something to do until I go to bed.
muddy
@pokeyblow: This comment is OT.
pokeyblow
@muddy: It’s a very apt question, one I’m eager to see Mnemosyne answer.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
I’m not sure what you’re asking: was it the morally right thing to do, or the politically right thing to do? Because I can dislike the fact that — like every other president before him — Obama did not look into the crimes of his predecessor while still realizing that it was a politically impossible thing to do given how chin-deep in it so many prominent Democrats were. Do you really think the US could have prosecuted George W Bush but not Dianne Feinstein? Hell, Feinstein and the rest of the war-supporting Democrats would have gone down first, just to prove there was no bias — and all been replaced by “honest” Republicans.
But, again, I’m not surprised that you think that throwing total control of the government back to Republicans by prosecuting prominent Democratic politicians would have been the “right thing to do.” It’s just another of those little ways that your roots keep showing.
pokeyblow
Oops! Big mistake! I am indeed the one who brought up Obama’s Reagan tributes, and later I misremembered and denied doing so. I am sorry about that.
Mnemosyne
@muddy:
Everything pokeyblow posts is off topic. That’s his whole point — to deflect criticism of Republicans at any cost.
I do love how Obama is now fully responsible for Iraq in pokeyblow’s mind. Sure, Bush and Cheney masterminded and executed the whole thing, but Obama didn’t prosecute them, so it’s all his fault now.
NickT
@pokeyblow:
Riiiight.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: My simple question can be handled with a much shorter answer, and a firmer one.
We live in a world of necessities. One has to do things. When Obama said “look forward, not backward,” did you think to yourself “yes, that’s the right thing to do.” ??
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: That’s not true at all.
Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc., are responsible for Iraq. They killed hundreds of thousands, in all likelihood, including thousands of Americans. They wounded untold more. They wasted, what, $2 trillion of our nation’s wealth. They corrupted our (already far-from-perfect) reputation worldwide. They turned us into a torture state.
Obama didn’t do those things.
But Obama did say “no problem, don’t sweat it” to Bush, Cheney, etc.
I think you think that was absolutely the right thing for Obama to do.
Omnes Omnibus
@pokeyblow: The right thing to do? Jesus. That is funny. Doing the truly right thing in politics is almost always suicidal. What I hope for in politicians is that they leave the place better than they found it.
pokeyblow
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s very courtly of you to offer an assist, but my question is for Mnemosyne, and it’s a simple one.
Omnes Omnibus
@pokeyblow: And officer and a gentleman by act of Congress, that’s me. She basically answered your question already.
Chris
@Omnes Omnibus:
What’s this “basically” shit?
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris: pokey will have to interpret her language since she did not directly say yes or no.
pokeyblow
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s not true. She offered one messy potentiality out of many messy potentialities.
Don’t forget, Obama could have said nothing. The justice department might have “routinely responded” to information requests from the world court. The senate could have initiated hearings.
Obama decided to pre-empt any of that by standing up and saying we wouldn’t even think about punishing anyone for what happened in Iraq, and that we should all “look forward, not backward.” Which, by the way, is life advice I didn’t ask Mr. Obama for, and which I reject when it comes to murdering hundreds of thousands of people.
Obama could have said nothing. He chose not to. And Mnemosyne apparently applauds him for doing so.
aimai
Well, trolling troll has truly trolled. The entire thread degenerated into the supremely uninteresting question of what pokeyblow thinks about how great pokeyblow’s repetitive Obama hate is for all the rest of us. Astonishing but true. I don’t think its necessary to think that Pokeyblow has any particular political goals or “is” anything at all, politically speaking. I think pokeyblow is satisfied wasting people’s time talking to or about pokeyblow. I would not be at all surprised if pokeyblow uses the opposite shtick–he calls it shtick–on some other blog and poses as a relentless attacker of right wing shibboleths. In fact, I’m pretty sure that the only sure thing about pokeblow is that he is an attention hound and would happilly eat his own vomit if he thought it would attract attention, negative or positive.
pokeyblow
By the way, I don’t know whether “world court” is an accurate term representing the entity I am thinking of. If there is a differently-constituted agency and someone knows more about it than me, congratulations!
pokeyblow
@aimai: You regulars really are uncomfortable that Mnemosyne has been asked about her protective stance toward war criminals.
Omnes Omnibus
@aimai: I am somewhat chastened, but I stand by my headache story.
muddy
@Mnemosyne:
I know, but that last switch to Iraq really gave me whiplash. Issa and Iraq both being brought to you by the letter I?
pokeyblow
Goodness. Who would have thought that supporting the lies which led us into Iraq, and the consequent slaughter, was regarded as acceptable opinion around here?
muddy
No one can be this thick. This thread is about Issa. Not Iraq. When there is a thread about Iraq take it up there.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Sorry, I was driving home from work, so I could not immediately answer your summons:
I think it was the right thing politically and the wrong thing morally. You appear to have a single definition of “the right thing to do” that means that Obama is now more responsible for the Iraq War than either Bush or Cheney because he didn’t do “the right thing.”
Funny how all of your “liberal” stances always work out to giving a free pass to the Republicans because a Democrat is somehow really responsible for what the Republicans did. Again, your roots are showing — you should probably get those touched up if you still want to masquerade as a liberal around these parts.
Oh, and if you want to know my proof of you giving a pass to Republicans and handing all of the blame to a Democrat:
Yes, because it was Obama who supported the lies that got us into Iraq and it’s all his fault, amirite? Those poor Republicans just couldn’t help themselves, so their decisions were all Obama’s fault.
NickT
@aimai:
True, but it’s been kinda fun to watch the critter squirm and bloviate. After all, it’s not as if the thread was turning into a great triumph for the American intellectual tradition before pokeyslow slithered over the parapet.
Omnes Omnibus
@pokeyblow: Dishonesty and a straw argument. Have a good evening.
pokeyblow
@muddy: You’d be a good self-appointed neighborhood watchman!
You’ve got the busybody spirit of a George Zimmerman.
Mnemosyne
@aimai:
I know I shouldn’t feed the trolls, but it’s so fun to watch them thinking they’re winning points. It’s like watching a snapping turtle “catch” a fish that the zookeeper has on the end of a string.
@muddy:
The thread is about looking at Republican screw-ups. That’s why pokeyblow is so very, very desperate to change the subject — can’t have anyone thinking about that when there are Democrats to blame!
pokeyblow
@Omnes Omnibus: Poor Mnemosyne.
It ain’t easy, being on the side of mass murderers. But it undoubtedly can be profitable.
I wonder what her angle is.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: Yes or no, really simple.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
What’s the question? If it’s about “the right thing,” there is no yes or no answer, because you haven’t defined “the right thing.”
Unless you’re a Republican, of course. Then everything is black-and-white and there’s only the Right Thing and the Wrong Thing, and the only possible answers are “yes” or “no.” Funny how those little “tells” of you being a Republican just keep showing up with everything you post, innit?
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: Sorry, I missed your “answer.”
Get this straight: I would love to see George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, et al. experience Saddam’s fate. Although I oppose the death penalty, I would open champagne to mark that occasion.
Please tell me how exactly this attitude of mine lets republicans off the hook.
Apart from partisan republicans, I haven’t encountered anyone as satisfied to see George W. Bush skate as you are (excepting of course the president). All those dead people. “America the good” a sick joke.
Hard to imagine being in your frame.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: If Obama had said nothing, would you think to yourself “he should really recommend we look forward, not backward, and discourage investigations” ?
Try that one.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Because you’re looking back, not forward. You’re so focused on the past that you’re letting Republicans off the hook for their current actions, like Issa’s witch hunts. We’re not allowed to even discuss current Republican actions.
Congratulations — by focusing on the past, you’re making sure their current crimes also go unpunished. But you refused to look at current events and ignored current crimes because you’re so much more moral than the rest of us, amirite?
I’m not satisfied, but I’m not obsessing on it to the point of ignoring the things going on around me right now. Republicans are taking over public schools in Michigan and Ohio and turning them over to private corporations. But we can’t even talk about that because we have to get into your little DeLorean and revisit the past over and over and over again.
Inevitably, one of these days you’ll come in here screaming about the atrocity that Republicans in your home state passed that restricts your right to vote or sends your kids to a for-profit school and you won’t believe us when we remind you that we’ve been screaming about that stuff for years, but you wouldn’t listen because you were obsessed with the past.
By the way, there is no statute of limitations on war crimes. Anyone in the US who participated in them can be prosecuted for them at any point before they die.
But of course you claim you wanted to prosecute Bush NOWNOWNOW because you didn’t want a Democratic president to get anything else done. Because you’re a Republican.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne:
Well, George W. Bush is fancy-free, Joe Lieberman kept his nice office and all his committee positions, and Americans didn’t get the chance to hope for a public healthcare option.
For you, this situation is called the “sweet spot.”
Thanks for the time you’ve spent making that clear for me.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
I’m sure Dianne Feinstein would have thought that. In fact, Democrats who supported the Iraq War probably encouraged Obama to make that statement.
Oh, wait, I’m not supposed to talk about the Democrats in Congress who would also be in the dock at the Hague because that ruins your little fantasy world where Obama is more culpable for Bush’s crimes than Bush himself is and we’re not allowed to mention the prominent and powerful Democrats who would be subject to prosecution for their actions during the Iraq War.
Mnemosyne
@pokeyblow:
Keep looking backward, not forward. I’m sure that if you wish hard enough, a TARDIS will show up and you can change all the things in the past you can’t stop obsessing about.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue to try and clean up the mess that the Republicans left after 30 years of being in charge.
pokeyblow
@Mnemosyne: You don’t understand. If anyone, democrat, republican, taxes-are-too-damn-high, can be shown responsible for the rapacious killing of hundreds of thousands of people, I am happy to see that person hanged.
No problemo. Next misrepresentation, please.
NickT
@pokeyblow:
You are responsible for the rapacious killing of hundreds of thousands of people. You chose to participate in a political system that produced that result repeatedly.
Find a rope and a tree and do the decent thing to yourself.
Villago Delenda Est
@Comrade Jake:
The Village needs to be destroyed. This is clear evidence of this need.
Tapper is dogshit.
Forum Transmitted Disease
You fuckers, every last one of you, have to be some of the dumbest people to ever live on the planet. Good job letting one of the weakest trolls I’ve ever seen here turn a thread about something important into a shit-flinging fest worthy of a third-world zoo.
I hate each and every one of you.
pokeyblow
@Forum Transmitted Disease: I assume you mean me?
Why the hysteria?
dance around in your bones
The only interest I have in pokeyblow or Ted & Hellen or belieber and suchlike (I love that term) is to see if and when my pie filter suggestions turn up in their mouths. Now, THAT’S fun.
It’s ok to eat pie ’cause it don’t have any feelings.
pokeyblow
@dance around in your bones: That sounds really fun.
It’s good to hear you’ve got something so satisfying going on in your life.
Xenos
@pokeyblow: Fuck off, troll.
That is all that needs to be said to you.
Ted & Hellen
Why the fuck has it taken almost 20 years of constant republican abuse and bullshit before at long last one person in the White House fires back proportionally?
Dems so very much lack spinal columns.
Carolinus
The real Tapper WTF is with this from the first paragraph: “one of President Obama’s top advisers”
Plouffe no longer works in the administration. He’s a private citizen. He left in January and works as a paid, partisan contributor to Bloomberg TV. Tapper knows this and is intentionally misleading to fan the flames of controversy.
Fred Fnord
Wow. Every time I drop by a BJ comments section I ask myself, ‘why the fuck did you do that?’ But somehow I always do it.
Bonus points for the person who pointed to the drone posts as evidence that this blog isn’t unfailingly supportive of President Obama. That’s gutsy: the comments for Annie Laurie’s last drone post are utterly uniform in their condemnation… of her. Of the top 50 comments (I got bored) there were 4 in support of her, and a few non sequiturs. There were also a number of calls for her ouster from the front page, a couple of openly misogynist statements, and a couple of really offensive jokes. Most of the rest were just variations on calling her stupid.
This doesn’t support your case too well, it seems to me.
BobS
@pokeyblow: The hive really do hate it when someone interrupts their circle-jerk.
El Cid
It’s a shame that no Tea Party activists were around to defend Issa from this Democrat Chicago-style thuggery since Eric Holder and the IRS had them all killed. Or gave them tax-exempt status. One or the other. But still.
JVader
What is really worth questioning is how does someone like Issa get the required security clearance for members of Congress with that history? I go through one every year or two and they don’t even like it when I travel out of the country, much less a car theft conviction?
A Humble Lurker
@Ted & Hellen:
This from the guy who thinks ‘not having a spine’ is not agreeing kids who get sexually abused totally want it.