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Stolen from Mr. Charles P. Pierce:
“Democracy is the most vile form of government… democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention: have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property: and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” — James Madison, Federalist 10, November 22, 1787
Also, I’m ashamed to admit that I never knew George Takei grew up in an interment camp:
… “Due process is a pillar of our American justice system,” the Star Trek star told Daily Intelligencer last night at the Eighth Annual Stella by Starlight Benefit Gala. “We were rounded up simply because we happened to look like the people who bombed Pearl Harbor. And we were put in prison camps with barbed wire and machine guns pointed at us. It was a horrific violation of our Constitution.”
Because of that experience, Takei is particularly wary of the government’s powers being abused. “We know where this can go,” he said. “We have to be ever vigilant against overstepping of the fundamental ideals of our democracy.”
Takei understands that President Obama “is a person who has to deal with a lot of issues.” But on the NSA spying programs, he says, “I don’t agree.”
I didn’t know George Takei grew up in an internment camp either. Damn.
I’m just going to go ahead and get my comment in before I even find out what this post is about, in case it goes away.
We have quite a few people here who either a)don’t care if reporters did anything wrong, they should be in the clink anyway and/or b)are speculating wildly on things reporters could have done wrong so they should be thrown in the clink.
Long time for a dog bleg. Someone abandoned this rottie that has cancer and is not expected to live 6 months. The Athens Humane Society is looking for help.
George Takei rocks. He also posts a lot more stuff that I Like on facebook than Barack Obama does. And since now I know Obama has my facebook, I know he knows that, and I feel slighted.
Now, let’s be fair to Madison, he was referring to
” …pure Democracy, by which I mean a Society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the Government in person”
and he gave the reason
” can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. ”
The text in Wikisource that I looked up doesn’t have the word ‘vile’ in it. I wonder what text Pierce is using.
a) is wrong. b) is like dreaming of winning the lottery — harmless if done in moderation.
@Karmus: yeah, but he knows that you know that he knows, but he’s totally cool with that
Sen. Mikulski Calls Out Reporter’s Tweet During Senate Hearing
I like a lot of what George Takei has to say, but he’s making the same error as a lot of other people. Obama didn’t dream up this program. Even the Patriot Act was just another step towards our secrete surveillance state. That Obama didn’t seek to curtain it is disappointing, but he didn’t start it & probably can’t unilaterally end it.
For those not in the now, Mr Takei has produced(?) & starred in a musical called Allegiance about the internment camps. I would post a link, but that functionality doesn’t seem to work on my work IE 9 (Soonergrunt can continue making fun of me I guess).
George gets very emotional about it to this day. I’ve heard a few radio interviews and he’s really powerful on the subject, especially when talking about the loyalty oaths.
@piratedan: This is more of that ‘leventy-dimensional chess, isn’t it?
Really? I knew. But then my printmaking teacher was also interned. She was able to buy a loft in SoHo with the restitution money. No amount would make up for it, but I was glad she was such a tough broad.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I gather there is a twitter campaign to promote Charlie Pierce’s post from yesterday
The difference between Pierce’s insistence on his responsibility as a citizen and The Dolphin Lady’s should-be-infamous mewling about torture (“sometimes you just have to just walk on by…” and let Big Daddy Dick Cheney beat up the scary man) is telling.
Read more: Tell Me What Is Being Done In My Name – Esquire
That is a heartbreaking story. I hope poor Maddy finds a home that can ease her passing.
Way to take Mr. Madison out of context. He was referring to direct democracy, and arguing for republican forms of government to check the passions of majorities.
In other words, he was arguing for representative government.
@Amir Khalid: We’re going to do our best to help.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
He’s the “Oh, my!” god.
I think everyone would agree that the government has massive powers that can be abused. Is the contention that Obama is currently abusing the government’s powers, or that Obama has done too little to prevent those powers from being abused, or from being developed in the first place?
Like, if we were talking about drones, and (somehow–it’s a hypothetical, bear with me) no one other than a mass murderer with a weapon ready to fire had ever been killed by a drone, you could say “Even though this best of all possible drone programs has never hurt anyone innocent, I remain troubled by its potential for grave harm, and will speak out against it.”
Seems like there are criticisms geared towards _potential_ for abuse, and criticisms predicated on already-occurring abuses. I’m not sure which is gaining traction here.
@Seanly: I didn’t get the impression from this excerpt that Takei was tying Obama’s responsibility to the program directly. His remarks gave me the impression that he’d like to see Obama take action to improve the program, as opposed to accusing Obama of being directly at fault for what the NSA is doing — a very measured and sensible observation, IMO.
Information is power, and all powerful institutions seek to consolidate it and at very least maintain it. It’s a ratcheting thing of human nature, our desire for “security.” Vs. are vague notions of “liberty.” I’ll venture to guess most of us still feel free in our own homes, at minimum. Me, it makes me squirmy knowing I’m on camera virtually the minute I leave my house.
I say my chances of being hassled by The State FAR outweigh my chances of being on the wrong end of a terrorist attack, or drug bust, which are basically the two primary cudgels currently being used to eviscerate the 4th Amendment.
Didn’t know that about George, either. Kind of amazing.
Should 2016 Democrats Break with Obama?
The Dem base is comprised of minorites, woman and yes liberals, but I’m sorry, but the members of the left that compromise the types who would be to the left of Obama (i,e. white liberals), are not as large a number as they seem to think on the liberal blogosphere. Relying on that group might work for midterms, but during Presidential elections, that would be a real dumb strategy in my opinion.
Obama won on the strength of that coalition and any Dem who wants to win needs to keep that coalition together period. Any Dem who thinks they can win without that coalition will be sadly mistaken. It might work in the primaries against Hilary or Biden, but in the general I’m betting it won’t.
oh jeez… after payday I can throw a few dollars their way.
I’m pretty sure he can. Chief Executive & Commander in Chief and all that.
But, Dear Friend, I am not suggesting that he end it unilaterally. That is just a dodgy argument that some hear like to make because they think Obama needs protection. He does not.
@Seanly: IIRC The Prez is on the record and being credited with introducing more checks and balances into the program than used to exist prior to his election. It’s a few days and mucho threads back
@Hawes: @jl: Also, when Madison says “rights of property,” he means that under democracies gangs of marauding plebeians can come and take your stuff. Democracy in 18th-century political theory most often means mob rule.
@efgoldman: Here I think. I had the temerity to suggest that if Greenwald broke the law he should pay. Still think so.
Internment camps? In America? Another Obot slander. I have it on good authority that FDR was the very model of a progressive president and Obama should seek to emulate him.
@lamh35: Something like a Wyden candidacy could be interesting as a shifter of the debate — getting the leading lights to address civil libertarian issues. But I also think that the depth and intensity of support for something like that is shallower and weaker than opinion-makers tend to think. (I think if these things stick as issues, the person whose candidacy is most helped is Rand Paul. Ack.)
Clearly Mr. Takei hates America and the Freedoms we have so valiantly fought for. I’d be shocked if Peter King didn’t try to see Takei prosecuted for his slanderous opinions. Because if he says anything more … then the terrorists win you see.
Although this is snark I am willing to bet several here will approve of that very paragraph I wrote as a course of action.
Slowly moving the country to the left is a good thing, and if that means presidents that’re incrementally more and more to the left, good. But there isn’t any kind of a serious voting bloc of True Leftists.
White liberal pundits don’t seem to understand who makes up the Democratic Party and if they think that it will help Biden or Hillary’s cause to stab Obama in the back publicly they are deluded. Obama is incredibly popular among minorities, women and young people. And Hillary is only in the position she is in today because Obama plucked her from the Senate backbench and gave her the SoS position. Biden also would not be in the position he is today without Obama. If they were to attack Obama now, all they are going to do is create an opening in the Dem Party for a presidential candidate who will run with the Obama coalition. Since I’d rather someone besides Hillary or Biden be the 2016 nominee, I’d be fine with that.
@Chickamin Slam: Well, I approve of it as snark.
Whereas you’ve taken the proactive stance that having declared himself a Very Serious Journalist, Greenwald is above the law of mere mortals.
“Capital as such is not evil; it is its wrong use that is evil. Capital in some form or other will always be needed. “
I think this is more complicated than Gitmo. There may be some things the President can’t do — for example, use a court other than the FISA court for certain types of warrants — but there are other things he can do in directing the management of the program. I’ve argued that the President shouldn’t unilaterally change his policies because I think we are better served trying to get Congress to take responsibility (for a change) and exercise better oversight and maybe even pass (or repeal) some laws. In my estimation, unilateral action by the President enables Congress to take a pass and, for some, gives them an opportunity to reignite the “soft on terror” canard.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I think a candidate could make an anti-Patriot Act plank in a platform without making it an anti-Obama campaign. The sequester? Please.
Am I the only one who thinks Andrew Cuomo is the Democrats’ Marco Rubio? A media favorite who will go nowhere?
@Phoenician in a time of Romans: I’m not familiar with all of Mr. Takei’s ouvre but from what I’ve seen he seems like a pretty stand up guy with a good sense of humour.
White Trash Liberal
@Corner Stone: there are also quite a few people who actively engaged in speculative fantasy about the leaked materials while frantically waving their dog-eared copy of 1984.
Personally, I feel that Yevgeny Zamyatin’s We is a lot more accurate in terms of the US dystopia.
I would only add that a representative democracy where the citizens do not vote or participate is a structure built to favor elites… And rather than making the game about attacking the president, it should be about reclaiming representation through local and national activism.
Personally, I feel this whole NSA scandal is a tragedy where all the players are fools. From feckless Obama, the pointless data pools that create distance from intelligence, a corrupt Congrss, knight errant Greenwald making it all about slavish partisan Obots, and trickster Snowden who is at play in the fields of Mao.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Cuomo is a dead duck. Na ganna happen.
Ok, forget GG, what exactly is Snowden’s game here. I mean is it weird that I think this sounds like some sort of negotiating tactic or something.
Snowden Makes Fresh ‘Hacking’ Allegations In New Interview
I’m also with Josh Marshall on this:
Seriously, at this point, whatever I think of the merits of what Snowden did, right now I’m just trying to figure out what exactly this dude’s game plan is?
@White Trash Liberal:
Ha! You have outed yourself Comrade! Shouldn’t your handle be “White Russian” ?
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: true, but this dude is saying “break” with Obama, well if they agree with Obama 95% of the time, then if they want to make the play for that other 5%, then wouldn’t that mean they’d have to make that 5% count and hit hard?
White Trash Liberal
@Corner Stone: I’m holding a beverage here, man
@lamh35: About the only thing you’ve posted here, ever, that I can agree with. Snowden clearly has a plan. His arrival in HK wasn’t in haste.
I think both HRC and Biden are in fact to the left of Obama on a lot of domestic economic policy.
So, if they run and do appear to be on his left on that area , it might just be because they are, not because it is a strategy. No tactical political backstabbing necessary.
I think on national security, they are same as Obama.
I think a Democrat winning in 2016 is more important than fealty to Obama. And shouldn’t the candidate in 2016 want to distinguish him or herself from the previous administration? Surely it can be done in a constructive way, at least I think it can be in the Democratic Party. Probably not GOP because that party can no longer be constructive about anything except new schemes to produce mayhem for profit.
@White Trash Liberal: Indeed, so am I. But I’m holding a good old fashioned American drink of vodka rocks, not some damn dirty Commie cocktail!
Oh…um, maybe vodka wasn’t the best choice for my rant.
Black nun could be the first African American to reach sainthood
@efgoldman: The speculation is that GG might have started “working” with Snowden before he heisted anything.
Which is nothing but speculation, as of the moment.
@raven: That’s not what you suggested. That’s how you clarified it later after I called you on it.
The question is whether Greenwald incited Snowden to leak the materials. It’s a fair question to ask considering Greenwald himself said he was “working with” Snowden *before* he started working at Booz Allen.
@White Trash Liberal:
Haven’t read “We” so I don’t get the reference, but the portrayal of a future dystopia run by totalitarian governments is so 20th century. Cyberpunk is the way to do dystopia nowadays, IMO.
Doesn’t that depend on where (the soon-to-be) previous administration stands in the public eye by the summer of 2016?
Ok, pol genius. Tell us all who does.
It’s not speculation. Greenwald said he started “working with” Snowden in February. Snowden didn’t start working for Booz Allen until March.
Worked for Al Gore. He won the popular vote!
ETA: Whoever the Dem nominee will be in 2016 will likely be to the left of Obama because the country in 2016 will likely be to the left of where it is now, IMHO.
@efgoldman: Ain’t approvin’ of it, just ‘splaining.
@lol: If you’re suggesting that I prefer authority to not cower or intimidate the press from reporting things govt may not want the public to know, then I fucking agree with your stupid fucking statement.
While the truth is that you are merely as hot as Pitt, not hotter.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think that’s true of Cuomo too. He’s benefiting from the fact that media types remember his dad so fondly. And I think that’s true of Cory B00ker as well. My impression is that B00ker is in reality what Obama’s most tenacious leftward critics (not the civil libertarians) imagine Obama to be — shallowly “hip,” neoliberal, beholden to Big Capital, etc.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@lamh35: I tried to read Shapiro’s piece, the tone is too cute by half, and I suspect Shapiro’s “everyone I know thinks” cadre is made up of a bunch of uber-tote-baggers who think David Gregory is doing a fine job, though of course no one will fill Tim Russert’s shoes. Joe Klein mini-mes at all the best parties. I think Obama’s “targeting of the press” is second or third on his list. This is not someone with his finger on the pulse of the public, much less the Dem primary voters. He does say at the end that the “break” should be done “gently”. But the idea of a Democrat running against Obama because the GOP has blocked stimulus? That’s just stupid.
What’s that “due process” nonsense Takei is nattering on about? We’re the Mighty United States of Under God America! We don’t get all hung up on that “due process” or “probable cause” lawyerball crap – ain’t nobody got time for that. We’re he-man men of action, we are, and we don’t play by “the man’s” rules, you dig? Because of our exceptional exceptionalness, y’unnerstand.
Oh, and “Boo hoo, my family and I got arrested, had all our property confiscated, and we were locked up for no better reason than some powerful people were powerful skeered.” I suppose you’d rather be blown up by a terrorist bomb, huh? Is that what you want? Is it?
@lol: If I’m going to view what I’m told about Snowden/Greenwald’s charges against the US with healthy skepticism about its accuracy, I’m going to do the same with any charges made against them. This is the damn internet, and I’m not going to put my marker on what a hoard of two-bit amateur keyboard sleuths come up with.
Well, that kind of depends on whose due process rights are being violated.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@lamh35: also, while I am a Joe Biden fan, I don’t think he has a chance at the nomination. I can’t put my finger on it, I like the guy personally and (mostly) politically, but I just don’t see him getting much traction in the primary.
Had a somewhat disappointing conversation with a co-worker today: she voiced the opinion that the NSA spying issue didn’t concern her much because 1) she has no expectation of electronic privacy, 2) she has nothing to hide, and 3) she wants the government to be able to capture terrorists.
I can understand reason #1 to a point, but just because our information passes through a lot of hands doesn’t mean it should be considered open to whomever wants it, for any reason. As for #2 and #3, well, there’s a really slippery slope there.
No sir. No, it isn’t. Where should I report to have myself chipped for safety?
@Baud: OK.. A candidate can distinguish him or herself in a bad way, which is what Gore did.
So, to clarify, when I said distinguish, I did not mean act like a sanctimonious jackass, picking a guy like Lieberman as VP, and desperately distinquishing away in response to BS GOP attacks on garbage the public didn’t care about.
My main point was that taking different positions from Obama should not be interpreted as some fakey tactical politcal ploy, should not be automatically interpreted as disrespecting Obama, and might be a good thing.
Or, if the candidate is stupid about, it might be bad thing (I assumed that would go without saying, but I guess I was wrong).
And how do you propose to do that without Obama supporters? That’s the gist of that article–running away from Obama and trying to win in 2016.
‘Tain’t gonna happen.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think it’s likelier that someone like Martin O’Malley could gain traction as an outsider from the president’s party who can clean house and end the din of “scandal” and other assorted nonsense. Same party, similar values, but not a lineal succession by the designated heir apparent. Especially if Hillary Clinton runs and the media won’t stop with the Benghazi bullshit.
I went to school with several people who were born “interned in camps. I remember asking one where Gila Bend was(that was the camp in Arizona.) One’s father fou severed in in a divieion in Euope.
@Seanly: you gotta stop making sense. :-)
@Linnaeus: Building a giant machine for the purpose of catching terrorists will always be popular. Trusting that the giant machine will only ever be used for the purpose of catching terrorists, and not to harass and repress, is a different matter. She might understand the stakes better that way: shouldn’t we have some safeguards in place to know that all this surveillance will only ever be used with careful oversight by skeptical people, with the goal limited to investigating and perhaps preempting terrible crimes (not routine ones)? At least that’s where I would draw the line.
(How to define a “terrorist” or a suspected terrorist is a much more difficult thing, but you/we can leave that for later.)
Wow, you’re 89?
Easier said that done, no?
@FlipYrWhig: OMG, that is soo the plotline of CBS’ Person of Interest. In reaction to 9/11, gov’t commissioned a mission that analyzes digital data, camera footage, cell phone usage, computer usage, i.e. any type of digital trail to spit out the “numbers” of people who are planning or may be planning a terrorist event in US.
Well, we could wrestle with whether you were or weren’t, or we could look at Chucky and Juno wrestling.
Juno is very much enjoying having her new big sister around.
@different-church-lady: Of course. But if Linnaeus wants his co-worker to understand why it’s important, IMHO raising the issue of how what’s been set up thus far could creep its way into being abused will be most likely to convince.
That’s one of these shows that I’d watch if I could find it online… but unfortunately, no dice.
@lamh35: That seems to be the plot of most dramas on CBS. Wisecracking, bickering hotties with high tech toys keep us all safe! You’re welcome, America!
@Chris: yeah CBS doesn’t show any of their shows online I think.
@FlipYrWhig: ummm hello, you can go wrong with a show where Jesus plays a reformed CIA super operative.
And by Jesus of course I mean this guy: http://www.cbs.com/shows/person_of_interest/cast/61987
@Jebediah: A mini me doggie! My dogs wrestle and biteyface all day long like that, but they are closer in size so no one has to lie down.
That’s more or less how I tried to respond to her; I also pointed out that there are historical examples of abuse of information by the government and its private sector proxies. To her credit, she acknowledged that, but went on to say (I’m paraphrasing) that she trusted the people handling our information until she had a reason not to (in the current imbroglio). I left it at that.
@lamh35: I watch that show, and am always urging him, Kick his ass, Jesus! Smash his teeth, Jesus! Shoot him right in the face, Jesus! I don’t know why I find this so entertaining.
” And how do you propose to do that without Obama supporters? That’s the gist of that article–running away from Obama and trying to win in 2016. ”
I will try to clarify further. I probably should have said that I thought the article’s point of view was BS. And I felt some commenters swallowed the BS in seeming to say that evern moderate differences from Obama would constitute ‘running away’ or backstabbing. I pointed out that differences between, say, HRC and Biden on one hand, and Obama on the other are genuine and not BS political ploys
If a future Democratic candidate wants to run as the anti-Obama, or on a platform that Obama was a failure, or took the country in a wrong direction, or goes with some BS super corporate centrist ConservaDem position, then I agree with you.
But you seem to imply that Obama supporters agree with everything he has done. I am a very strong Obama supporter, and I do not agree with nearly everything he has done.
Out of curiosity, have they made any of those 1970s type political/conspiracy thrillers about those kinds of electronic surveillance tools? The only one I can sort of think of is “Sneakers,” which I love but isn’t quite the same genre.
@Linnaeus: Frankly, I think that’s where most people are going to leave it. That’s why I think the most fruitful _political_ response to these revelations is to press the FISA Court to demonstrate that they’re not just rubber-stamping all surveillance but working to keep it at least as narrow and precise as other kinds of search warrants and court orders and such. I don’t see that anyone of good conscience and a common-sense view of the Constitution could object to that.
Another dodgy argument. The topic was not Guantanamo or military bases. Congress is not compelling the security services to act the way they are acting. The is purely in the administrative portfolio.
Whenever I can, I try to note that there are many here who cannot make that distinction (or will not).
Clinton is under rated as a candidate. It’s weird, because she was OVER rated as a candidate in 08 (and I didn’t vote for her in 08, and I’m not promoting her)
I just think it’s weird how people don’t seem to be able to look at her chances in what I view as a rational manner.
She would have substantial support here, in terms of delegates and all that. She would have the kind of support people assumed she’d have in ’08.
To me, it’s like people can’t get her RIGHT, as far as her chances. I don’t know if it’s the fame or that these narratives just spring up and get cemented into place.
“Inevitable!” was wrong in 08 and “weak!” will be wrong in 2016.
Just Some Fuckhead
I want to swear a loyalty oath to President Obama so I can disagree with Him on this matter.
removed a dub
Well, there’s 1974’s The Conversation.
In the same bailiwick.
@Just Some Fuckhead: A traitor reveals himself. To the tumbrels with the wretch!
@Just Some Fuckhead: Do you have a son that you can take to a mountain top? Bring a knife and matches.
Note the word “fealty“. There are plenty of people — possibly not among your friends, or the late Pauline Kael’s — who voted for President Obama without feeling a deep sense of personal loyalty to him as an individual. They voted for Obama because they agreed with his expressed campaign stances, or they didn’t want a Republican choosing more SCOTUS judges, or they personally loathed McCain/Romney, or they preferentially vote the (D) ticket. Kilgore thinks it’s possible that a 2016 candidate might run on the “I am a Democrat who is generally more left-of-center than President Obama”. Even people who agree with 85% of President Obama’s choices might agree, well, it’s not like the man’s eligible for a third term, and yes I would prefer slightly less Establishmentarian/Authoriatarian rhetoric from my Democratic president.
Not many of us want to go back to “If you disagree with anything Our President says, it means you want the terrorists to win” as the pinnacle of political discourse.
Internment was bad enough without the extra horror of interment — let’s not gild the lily, even in reverse.
Just Some Fuckhead
Why is President Obama trying to kill George Takei?
@Jebediah: Awww… bitey mouth! bitey mouth!
Particularly love that Chuckie keeps giving the photographer the side-eye. “Y’all know I’m just kidding, right? So, this is cool, yes?”
@Just Some Fuckhead
George Takei, alien scenery chewer.
@NotMax: Or another great Gene Hackman flick, Enemy of the State. Lawyer guy accidentally gets a peep at what Tha Gummint is capable of doing to any annoying little ant of a mere citizen, and almost loses everything that matters as a result.
No spoilers, but for those who remember the film, the ending is kinda similar to where I expect the Snowden case is headed… if he’s lucky :)
Just Some Fuckhead
Why is George Takei trying to ensure a Republican wins the White House in 2016?
@Anne Laurie: If I’m busy and they bug me I’ll say, “Go bite your sister/brother in the face!” And then they do.
@Anne Laurie: To be fair, Will Smith should have never decided to cheat on Michelle Obama with Lisa Bonet.
And he definitely should have never made that phone call from the convenience store.
Harrison Ford, pre-fame? I gotta watch that one.
That one, too.
Just Some Fuckhead
Why does President Obama put up with this nonsense? He should kill everyone that isn’t completely loyal to him. Whoever is left alive will know who to vote for in 2016.
@Just Some Fuckhead: It’s hard to tell but from what I can discern it seems it’s because Takei hates the very idea of a President Obama and wants to erase that scourge from our history.
I’m equally sure of this because I think George Takei was the first person to use MLK and Rosa Parks in an analogy with his own past.
She really does look like a mini-me – both dogs came to us more or less randomly, so I am kind of tickled that two totally different breeds/mixes look so similar (chihauhau/terrier mix and Catahoula Leopard Dog) and I love how Chucky lets Juno “win.”
Just Some Fuckhead
Internment / Interred ?
My guys look similar too, also luck of the draw. Sometimes the big dog will just stand there to catch his breath and let the puppy hump him. She’s hopping about on her hind legs, all smiles, not tall enough to really hump him properly, but she seems to have a blast. Then when he’s ready to play again he just kind of shrugs her off.
Yeah – when they first started playing like that, it made me really nervous. Chucky is sweet but can fit at least half of Juno in her mouth, and I was worried that she would accidentally eat her. So I think you’re right – she was checking to make sure I was still OK with it.
I am more relaxed about it now – ever since seeing Juno apply a real smackdown when it got too rough for her taste. Juno snarls and Chucky backs right off. They are a good pair.
Cute pups – and in at least one of those pics, it looks like it’s the non-face end that’s getting biteyed.
@lol: TA DAH!!! And now if you wiil grab your glass of wine, I would like you to meet this dining room table. I think you will enjoy the conversation better. :-)
@Jebediah: Gotta bite whatever you can. I like when they pretend to yawn, and then at the widest point another animal’s head just happens to fall in… I have had several dogs do this, and look over at me like they think they’re slick, so funny.
@Jebediah: Fortunately for us, 99.99% of all dogs are Lawfuls.
(I used to say just “all dogs” but I have met a couple who put the chaos in Chaotic. Like our current rescue Zevon — he is a great dog & I love him, but he’s Chaotic-Neutral on his best day. He’s not neurotically fearful like fellow rescue Sydney, or alpha-bitchy-resource-guarding dangerous like our third rescue Gloria, just unpredictable & possibly bipolar. Like the original Excitable Boy, which is how he got that name!)
To be fair, they are…
And no one can argue with that.
@michelle: Yeah! Patrick Nielsen-Hayden interviewed him a few years ago, and it was so powerful.
He was a little kid, and when they got out and got back to LA, his father helped build the Japanese section of the city.
But more importantly, he taught his son to not be bitter; that people were afraid then and they did what they did, but not to hold it against them.
That example of super-human grace and forgiveness has stood him in good stead in the struggle for gay rights.
Also, he is fucking hilarious.