Things ain’t what they used to be in Egypt:
Egyptian cities were left strewn with rocks, glass and bullet casings on Saturday morning after almost 24 hours of violence which left 30 dead and more than 1,100 injured.
Clashes erupted on Friday night between supporters and opponents of ousted president Mohamed Morsi in central Cairo and other cities across Egypt, as fears of an expected backlash against his removal materialised.
Fighting broke out shortly after the Muslim Brotherhood’s spiritual leader, Mohammed Badie â reported to have been arrested on Thursday â appeared unexpectedly at a rally in east Cairo on Friday evening to tell his followers to remain on the streets until Morsi’s return. The ousted president had once been a senior member of the Islamist party.
Here’s Juan Cole with some more. Please chime in with good sources in the comments.
Of course, the most important question of the crisis is whether John Kerry spent some time on his fucking boat.
(Credit to reader Greg B. for the title.)
MattF
Here’s a chart to ponder:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Middle_East_countries_by_population
Egypt is by far the most populous arabic country, followed by Iraq, Saudi Arabia (!!!), Yemen(!!!), and Syria.
Jen
On twitter I see a lot of people parroting the whole “obama supports terrorists in Egypt!!” car. They do know Obama only gave a cra p since Morsi was elected BY THE PEOPLE right? I just wish they would take responsibility for their own mess. (I have no idea what the company line is on BJ but thats what I feel)
c u n d gulag
Well, according to FOX, Rush, Bill Kristol, and Charles Krauthammer, all of this is the fault of (fill-in the predictable response here): ________________________________________________________________, and Socialism.
There, THAT was easy, wasn’t it?
Jen
The only thing I understand about this mess
Is that both sides think America is to blame. Business as usual then.
PsiFighter37
Hasn’t Kerry been on the road for a long time? Who gives a shit if he was kicking it for a couple hours on his boat. It’s not like the right-wing wonderboys who ran the show before Obama were known for working hard, if at all
Betty Cracker
The wingnut choir sure is singing from different hymnals on this. Some are arguing that Obama failed to stop the coup that removed Morsi because he hates democracy, whereas others are saying that Obama tried to prop up Morsi because he loves the Muslim Brotherhood.
c u n d gulag
Btw, mistermix – GREAT TITLE!!!
MattF
@Betty Cracker: Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!
Mino
@c u n d gulag: Hillary Clinton
Jen
@Betty Cracker: So basically the wingnuts are Egypt encapsulated?
Suffern ACE
@PsiFighter37: he needs to pretend that the outcome in Egypt is favorable for the US and that we are in control of the situation. It is very important that major events appear to be steered by the USA. We are on top of things-not just you’re average global power, we are like the boss who works on Saturdays even though the staff suspects that the “work” is really paper shuffling to avoid dealing with a failing marriage.
Chris
@c u n d gulag:
The Jews.Whoops, wrong century. They’ve got a new semetic scapegoat group now.
gnomedad
@Betty Cracker:
But whichever it is, IMPEACH!!!
NickT
@Betty Cracker:
Let’s not forget Obama and his Chicago thug cronies shooting the nose off the Sphinx in an all-night homosexual coke-orgy with Sandra Fluke, Ray Lewis and the IRS.
Not that I meant to give the plot of Jerome Corsi’s next book away or anything…
Chris
@Suffern ACE:
This.
It always amazes me just how much they believe we control the world. Thus, Truman “lost” China, Carter “lost” Iran, and Reagan “defeated communism.” Internal factors just don’t happen, apparently.
Suffern ACE
@Betty Cracker: lol. What the hell does prop up mean on this situation. We should have taken out ads in the Cairo Post offering free macdonalds fries to anyone who stopped demonstrating?
Southern Beale
This is an interesting piece on the BBC.
I heard a program on BBC radio yesterday, it’s called something “Having Your Say” or some such … they get people to just discuss the issue of the day, and they had pro and anti-Morsi people on the show (mostly women). It’s very well moderated so you don’t have a lot of people talking over each other.
Baud
@Suffern ACE:
To be fair, that would probably work here.
NickT
@Suffern ACE:
If Obama had only stopped bowing before evil Ayrabs, this could all have been avoided.
donquijoterocket
One wonders whether the theocratically inclined wingnuts in this country will take any lessons about non-secular government from these events.
beltane
@Betty Cracker: This is one of the few instances I’ve seen where there really isn’t a hymnal at all, and there are quite a few very stupid statements being issued from all political quarters (a Digby post was actually singled out at Crooked Timber). In the case of Egypt there are also numerous back stories having to do with a looming conflict with Ethiopia over a proposed dam, and other issues that are too complex for our average, slow-on-the-uptake pundits to wrap their small minds around.
In the meta sense, though, there does seem to be a widespread, even global, malaise, where voters experience the same outcome no matter who they vote for.
beltane
@donquijoterocket: The Christian right learned this lesson many years ago. They have not sought to exert a huge amount of influence over the military, particularly the Air Force, just for the fun of it. The wingnuts will look at events in Egypt and see all their fears about taking God out of their armed forces realized.
gnomedad
@donquijoterocket:
The important thing is to have the right kind of theocracy.
Roger Moore
@donquijoterocket:
No, they won’t learn anything from anything. SATSQ.
jon
What kind of teleprompter sits atop the yacht’s countertops? Must learn now. WHERE IS MY FOX NEWS ALERT?!
Chris
@Southern Beale:
Sounds like America. With exactly the same two factions.
(With the exception that the military-industrial complex and the fundamentalists are on opposite sides over there… and in many of the countries in the region. Interesting deviation from the way things are in the West).
NickT
@gnomedad:
A bipartisan heartland theocracy with Newt Gingrich as its First Imam and a weeping orange object as the fallguy.
beltane
@jon: Naturally, the yacht has granite countertops. All the better to prepare the arugula on.
Mike in NC
So is Cairo the new Benghazi?
Easier for the wingnuts to spell as they get out their crayons to compose Letters to the Editor of their local fishwrap.
Baud
@Chris:
I wonder if we’ll transition to that structure as our wingnuts become more radical. On the other hand, our wingnuts are dying off.
Botsplainer
Tsk, tsk. Secularized cosmopolitan urban elites are resorting to using jackbooted thugs to crush conservatives who simply want the government to recognize and promote the authentic expression of traditional religious faith…
NickT
@Botsplainer:
Next they’ll be forbidding Egyptian Tim Tebow to unroll his prayer mat at the 50 yard line.
Wake up, MUSLI-SHEEPLE!!!
Botsplainer
@NickT:
I always thought that the galleys were never to be divulged.
Roger Moore
@Mike in NC:
I doubt it. With Benghazi, they at least had a vague story about why Obama was wrong out fairly quickly. Now they can’t even decide which side Obama was wrong for backing.
Higgs Boson's Mate
How Morsi, Brotherhood Lost Egypt
The article is on Al-Monitor. The author, Bassem Sabry, explains, in restrained language, the actions of the Muslim Brotherhood that led to their losing the support and confidence of large segments of Egypt’s people.
maya
Will Egypt offer refunds on Morsi’s jersey?
Why isn’t Obama doing what Bibi wants?
What does Bibi want?
Can Morsi get asylum in Israel?
Does Venezuela have a counter-offer?
What is the name of Kerry’s yacht? Is there a connection between Kerry’s yacht, Morsi’s jersey and Bibi’s desires?
Baud
@maya:
Swiftboat
Higgs Boson's Mate
@maya:
Morsi would be wise to avoid Sheremetyevo-2 airport.
Keith
I’m still baffled as to what the deal was with Kerry on a boat. I keep reading headlines like “Kerry On Yacht While Egypt Crisis Unfolded” and “State Department Says Business Was Not Conducted Aboard Boat”, but I’m not seeing the problem. This thing happened during 4th of July week, and AFAIK, Kerry was on a vacation at the time, so he’s allowed to do pretty much what he wants during his day(s) off. And it’s not like my memory is so bad that I don’t recall W. (the President, not a Secretary) spending an entire month on his ranch to “refresh” himself.
fasteddie9318
I feel like I’m having my titles stolen, except we can’t be the only two to go there.
Baud
@Keith:
John Kerry is a Democrat.
Botsplainer
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
At least until El Salvador, Jamaica and Uruguay can be contacted about possible asylum claims.
AxelFoley
@Baud:
Well played, my friend.
Southern Beale
@Keith:
It’s not like Bush wasn’t on vacation celebrating his birthday while NEW ORLEANS DROWNED. An American city. I mean, what the fuck is John Kerry supposed to do about Egypt, anyway? Except monitor it and sorta watch and make sure Americans over there are protected?
Botsplainer
@Keith:
It isn’t as if he could actually do anything – that was going to unfold like it was going to unfold.
Perhaps he was supposed to be on conference calls with all factions so that he could deliver hours of statements on how they are to treat America’s Special Friend and Bestest Ally that Ever Was, Is, and Ever Will Be, the Sacred, God-Ordained State of Israel.
Southern Beale
Speaking of jerseys, from my local fishwrap:
Umm …
maya
@Southern Beale: It was Gramps Walnut’s birthday and that’s a national holiday….. somewhere.
piratedan
@beltane: c’mon now, the Evangelicals run rampant through the AF. Their academy is in the center of AF heaven, Colorado Springs. You know, the experimental Libertarian example of now that everything is built, we’ll decide if we need those pesky governmental intrusions like a fire department, tyvm.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Keith:
Although W set a record for the amount of time he spent refreshing himself, his was a White, Republican, and therefore legitimate presidency with a legitimate administration. The minor incidents that occur during a legitimate presidency are no one’s fault. Any presidency, and its administration, that is not White and Republican, is illegitimate. All of its actions are the result of incompetence and/or dark desires to undermine Onenationundergod.
Those are the rules.
Suffern ACE
@Roger Moore: the republicans in NC just passed their anti-abortion bill as an amendment to their anti-shariah bill, so I’m doubting that the republicans are going to spend a lot of time complaining about the Muslim brotherhood. My guess is the line will eventually be how none of this would have happened if the US wouldn’t have accepted the results of the Egyptian elections. Or would have put CIA paramilitaries in there to keep our ally Mubarak in power two years ago. Because showing unwavering support for 82 year old autocrats with health issues works out 2% of the time.
Va Highlander
The various Salafists with whom I’m indirectly in contact through failbook are losing their collective shit over Morsi. They are taking it very personally, as indeed they seem to take any perceived slight against Sunni Islam. From what they’re screaming, it seems this is yet more proof that any Muslim leader that fails to kiss American and Zionist ass will be removed or murdered. The “traitors” in Tahrir Square are just so many Mubarak shills and the “1 or 2 million” demonstrators do not represent the vast majority of Egypt.
Just like our own wingers, right-wing Islam is fuelled by conspiracy theories and butthurt.
Chris
@Baud:
I don’t really see it, but I could be wrong. We don’t really have a “jackbooted thugs” equivalent, and the uniforms (or at least the people who run them) have generally been lenient as fucking hell with teabagger rallies (as opposed to OWS).
Mino
@beltane: Huh. Lot of that going around, indeed. At least in economic policy. And climate policy. And trade policy.
Baud
@Chris:
I was thinking more of the business side of the MIC. We are losing billions of dollars of economic growth because of the teahadists.
beltane
@Va Highlander: This is funny because one of the grievances leveled against Morsi is that he was secretly a CIA puppet who failed to take meaningful action against the Zionist entity. Gotta love the mutually exclusive conspiracy theories. The wingnut mind is truly a wonder to behold.
Chris
@Va Highlander:
That’s not fair. Their right wingers have a hell of a lot more substance behind their conspiracy theories and persecution complexes, when you consider the brutal, autocratic methods that “modernizers” like Nasser and his successors, or their equivalents in neighboring countries, used to stay in power and stamp out opposition. Our right wingers have absolutely nothing of the kind to justify their paranoia (largely being, as I pointed out, on the same side as the security state), which is probably why the Civil War is still such a sore point – that’s how far back you have to go to find a semi-plausible-ish story of “help, help, I’m being repressed.”
Betty Cracker
@Chris: But War on Christmas!
GregB
@fasteddie9318:
Fast Eddie, this is lateral thinking. I had that song ringing in my mind for some time whenever I heard his name. Especially when it is pronounced Mercy by folks who are familiar with Arabic. My first glimpse of your blog ever was when I clicked on the link.
Chalk it up to the great minds think alike maxim.
beltane
@Chris: Their right-wingers also cannot possibly create art that is even half as atrocious as this: http://www.covenantamerica.us/covenant-america-diorama-2/
Chris
@Baud:
Depends if they care. It’s been a theory of mine that businessmen who vote wingnut do so because of things other than their financial bottom line, and that they’d be fine with having less money in absolute terms if the peasants took an even bigger cut. (If growth and stuff was all they cared about, the 1950s/60s Keynesian model would be totally fine with them).
Jay in Oregon
@Baud:
You have won the internet for today.
Va Highlander
@Chris:
I invite you to spend time in their company. The Islamist world view I get from these jokers makes Glenn Beck look tame and thoughtful. Alex Jones is mere grist for their mill. It’s frankly more frightening than anything I’ve seen over here.
NickT
@Southern Beale:
I still think the Holy Handgrenade of Antioch is better.
Mandalay
@Southern Beale: From your BBC link…
While it is factually correct that Morsi was democratically elected, it is also the case that since coming to power he heavily stacked the deck in favor of himself and the Muslim Brotherhood…
Morsi may have been elected democratically, but he governed as a dictator, and pushed his luck too far.
waratah
Now we know why Hiliary traveled so much while SOS. Bill was not the only reason.
Mandalay
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: That was an excellent article. I guess things will get worse before they get better, but it is hard to believe the Egypt and the world aren’t better off with Morsi gone. He was rotten.
Corner Stone
Since we’re in a thread tagged Foreign Affairs, I’ll just leave this here:
Spain: We were told Snowden was on Bolivia plane
“Spain on Friday said it had been warned along with other European countries that former U.S. intelligence worker Edward Snowden was aboard the Bolivian presidential plane this week, an acknowledgement that the manhunt for the fugitive leaker had something to do with the plane’s unexpected diversion to Austria.”
Chris
@Va Highlander:
Oh, I’ve read quite a bit of their stuff (Sayyid Qutb’s rants about life in America especially, hair raisingly racist and sexist). I’m under no illusions that they’re anything but really, really frightening/fucked up.
JGabriel
I’m ambivalent about Egypt’s overthrow of the Morsi regime. In general, I’m not too fond of military coups. On the other hand, I am really unfond of religious right-wing political fundamentalism of the Morsi and Muslim Brotherhood stripe.
That said, I have to confess that I’m both puzzled and amused by the Republican Party’s general support for the overthrow. I mean, religious right-wing political fundamentalism is what the GOP is all about — you’d think they’d show a little self-concern.
Mandalay
@Corner Stone:
Yet we had all been assured the other day by paid up members of the BJ Flat Earth Society that there had been no US involvement at all, and the entire incident was fabricated by Bolivia. I’m shocked.
fasteddie9318
@GregB: I figured. It’s too obvious.
Corner Stone
@Mandalay: The article never confirms direct US involvement, although I find the idea silly that the “they” referenced by Spain did not mean some type of US personnel.
However, France has apologized to Bolivia for the “conflicting information” and Spain’s Foreign Minister is on the record with national TV that the redirect was linked to Snowden.
Bolivia hasn’t backed down one bit, which could be argued it’s mainly for domestic consumption.
I’m really only sure of one thing at this point, and that is The Great Semantic War ™ will continue.
This event never happened and we had nothing to do with it.
This event may have happened but we had nothing to do with it.
This event happened but we had nothing to do with it.
We had nothing to do with it.
Botsplainer
@JGabriel:
Remember the 80s when St Ronnie’s State Department allied with the Vatican and radical Islam to stymie UN population control and democratization efforts?
NickT
@Mandalay:
And you and the rest of the cultists were assuring us that direct access to servers didn’t mean what it means.
Just remember that before you award yourself a victory lap in the self-righteous pomposity stakes.
Yatsuno
@NickT: Now now now. Let them fap in peace. THAT ONE is still President you know.
Xenos
@beltane:
Pretty funny, that. Credulous fools would try to suborn the Air Force, thinking strategic air power would allow them to take control of a country. What could go wrong?
NickT
@Yatsuno:
True, true.
Fap on, young Mandalay, fap on.
JR in WV
@Suffern ACE:
I’m thinking that the Anti-Sharia law makes an anit-abortion law illegal, since Sharia outlaws abortion.
If Sharia is not allowed, then anything required by Sharia is illegal; by the same logic, anything prohibited by Sharia is allowed, almost required.
jon
@JR in WV: From what I learned about Islam, based on a college course from an actual professor and stuff, Islam bans abortion once the baby can kick or be heard in the womb. Up to then, I guess it’s herbal tea time. Or something. Sharia is okay with some abortion up to a point, kind of like most Americans.
Mnemosyne
@JR in WV:
I’m kind of curious about that, actually — I know that Talmudic law allows early abortion and abortion to preserve the life and health of the mother, so I’d be curious to find out if Sharia law is similar or if it’s more like our nutty Christianists who insist that the only acceptable end to a pregnancy is birth or the death of the mother.
JR in WV
@jon:
So Dangerous Arab moooslim islamists fanatic terrorists are more liberal and empathic than our right-wingnut religious loons? Whocoulda node?
Thanks for the update! Always good to learn a little bit about somewhere else!
The article from Al Monitor is quite good.
I had heard of many of the Brotherhood’s bonehead anti-democratic moves over the months, but had forgotten a lot of the details. Seeing them all summarized showed that democratic activists in Egypt had strong motivation to move when they did.
tybee
@Baud:
Zzzzinggggg….
jon
@JR in WV: Here‘s the wikipedia entry on the subject. Yeah, they’re almost radical feminists compared to our right wing. They don’t even use probes to shame women, though that may be because no Islamic scholar would ever publicly admit to knowing where the vagina is.
Of course, if confronted with these facts, a wingnut would only see this as proof that Obama is a Muslim.
JGabriel
@Botsplainer:
Yep, that’s what I mean. Not to mention selling arms to Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran.
See, back then, Republicans knew who their, though not America’s, real allies were, and weren’t afraid to show it.
FlipYrWhig
@Corner Stone: Regarding “they,” is that the kind of thing Interpol does? Despite its presence in any number of spy narratives, I’ve never been too clear on who or what Interpol is.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig: I thought Interpol mainly went after guys in kilts who flashed their nethers to schoolgirls?
Or fetched coffee for the CIA station chiefs?
Chris
@JGabriel:
Well, they didn’t exactly seek out this war. As with the Nazis in the 1930s, our conservatives considered the jihadis at worst a harmless annoyance in a far off land and at best an ally against the left, liberalism and modernity, until they did something egregious enough to be put on the Bad Guy Radar. They basically forced their hand, sort of, with 9/11.
(Even then, it’s noteworthy that other than invading Afghanistan, the immediate wingnut reaction was to label Iraq, Iran and North Korea, three countries with zero connection to the Taliban, al-Qaeda or 9/11, but that fit a preexisting wingnut script).
Villago Delenda Est
@Xenos:
Well, the USAF academy is right there nearby Christianist kook central, in Colorado Springs. The commutes to West Point and Annapolis are more intimidating.
AA+ Bonds
Banker-controlled media blitz for IMF exploitation and against Egyptian people began with full force today.
WSJ today:
Washington Post today:
The Telegraph today:
Don’t say I didn’t tell you so…………………
Not that I’m ever happy when I’m this right about capitalist exploitation.
They are building the frame for the conversation about the theft of Egypt so that by the time everyone else catches up, the theft of Egypt will be to ensure Egyptian “freedom”.
Bob h
Can someone reassure me what we are watching in Egypt is not a harbinger of things to come here? The mindset of fanatics is pretty similar everywhere.