Here’s a crappy video of some heat lightning in my area last night:
The video doesn’t do it justice, of course. It was amazing.
The Broward County (FL) Sheriff’s Office announced they’re working with other law enforcement agencies on plans to handle any public outcry in response to the Zimmerman trial verdict, which could come as soon as this week or next.
Wingnut media outlets like Big Dirt Nap, Drudge and the Daily Caller are all over it, naturally. A thousand little Zimmermans are blooming in their comments sections, eagerly looking forward to an opportunity to deploy “Second Amendment remedies” against the rioting hordes that populate their fever dreams.
Cassidy
Shit. I’m only concerned about
crackersrednecks with guns and alcohol.The kids are still asleep. I broke out wet food so the cats are quiet except for the occasionally moving can. I have a giant cup of coffee and pop tarts with butter. Yay furlough day!
Botsplainer
I feel really guilty. I put the puppy in his outdoor enclosure, third day in a row. He’s pretty outraged about it, I can hear him now as I get ready for work. I’d felt so guilty about it, I let him sleep in our bedroom last night (wife and youngest daughter are in Sicily right now, middle daughter with me). He was good as gold, and may actually house train early. He is better about biting as well.
I’m going to toss her ass out of bed as I leave – he’s too young to be left in there alone for hours on end.
ETA – I did play with him for a solid hour and a half already.
Schlemizel
One thing I remember about Central Florida is that they have the most spectacular lightning storms I have ever seen. I don’t recall ‘heat lightning’ there though.
ZImmerman was always going to walk given the laws in ‘America’s Pecker’. The Shoot Your Guns law really are an invitation to vigilante executions and the occasional dead blah kid is seen as a feature not a bug. Had Trayvon been armed & shot George when first attacked he would have been just as justified (although the law may have been used differently given reality) but because when attacked he responded by hitting back this somehow justifies his being shot. The lesson is always carry & always shoot first. Is this a great country or what!
Soonergrunt
I have a co-worker here in OKC who grew up in Florida. All of his family are still there and he says they claim to be stocking up on ammo, just waiting for the hordes.
On another note, I’m on vacation!
Betty Cracker
@Schlemizel: I think “heat lightning” is just distant lightning that you can see in the clouds but can’t hear because it’s too far away. With the exception of a few years after school that I spent up north, I’ve lived in FL all my life, and last night’s heat lightning show was the most impressive I’ve ever seen. I made the kids come down to the beach with me to see it. Wish I could have captured it better on video. It went on and on.
AdamK
I don’t think that little video’s crappy. I think it’s kind of beautiful.
raven
This lighting lasted nearly an hour last night and it wasn’t “heat” lightning, it was pouring. Closest thing to outgoing I’ve heard in years.
jayackroyd
Maybe I’m an idiot, but Florida is an open carry state. Why don’t supporters of Martin get permits and start openly carrying everywhere they go?
Why not show up at the courthouse steps, openly carrying, with “Really?” buttons?
FTM, why don’t progressives introduce legislation permitting openly carrying in courts, legislative offices, the floors of legislatures? Safer is safer, isn’t it?
raven
Jesus, it’s thundering again!
Omnes Omnibus
@Schlemizel: I still don’t think that Zimmerman is going to walk. He may not get convicted of Murder 2, but I doubt that he will get away clean.
@jayackroyd:
You know the answers to those questions, right?
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: So it’s not all or nothing?
Dave
Florida is not an open-carry state. It would be interesting if Martin’s father got a concealed carry permit and followed (not stalked) Zimmerman everywhere for the rest of his life. Then one rainy night, there’s a 911 call and Martin’s father with a bloody nose is standing over Zimmerman’s body.
BobS
@Schlemizel: I hadn’t watched any of the Zimmerman trial until yesterday, but I’m aware (I think) of the basic facts of the murder, and I’m not sure why the prosecutor didn’t or whether he could have made the issue of Trayvon Martin standing HIS ground an explanation for his apparently kicking Zimmerman’s ass, as opposed to arguing about who was on top and the (non)severity of Zimmerman’s injuries. A 17 year old kid walking down the street realizes he’s being stalked by a stranger in a car. The kid tries to lose his stalker, who not only reappears but exits his vehicle, at which point the kid stands his ground. That point should have been driven home to the jury (most or all of them women with children of their own) every day with every witness, e.g. “Dr. DiMaio, do you think you would be afraid if you were taking a walk at night and a car was slowly following you?”
Opie_jeanne
@Betty Cracker:
I wonder if that’s the same thing that is referred to as “sheet” lightning in SoCal. I saw it just one summer, the whole sky flickering and lighting up the low cloud cover. The show went on for several days.
Shakezula
Yes, because the one thing cops love is a bunch of fuck knobs running around in Full Rambo mode.
JPL
@raven: It’s sunny here!… I have a feeling that Chantal is going to travel up through the Atlanta area and dump on us. It’s starting to smell moldy outside on the deck.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: I sure hope you’re right. I’d put the odds of Zimmerman getting away with it at 80%, but that’s just my guess from having followed the trial fairly closely and gauged the opinions of my fellow Floridians who are also following the trial. In other words, it’s just a guess.
El Caganer
There probably won’t be anything but peaceful protests if Zimmerman walks. Won’t stop the teabaggers from shooting some people, though.
jayackroyd
@Dave:
Sorry and thanks. I’ve got a photo of a relative in FL at a playground with his four year old wearing a holstered Glock (the dad, not the kid wearing, that is). I assumed therefrom he was acting legally. But teh google tells me:
Amir Khalid
The lightning video made me think of this song. Not a signature number, of course, but certainly among his most beautiful and underrated works.
I’ve come across talk of post-verdict riots in the Zimmerman case. Most of it is from people who strike me as right-wing blowhards, the ones who are quick to damn Trayvon Martin as a hoodlum; they’re all confidently predicting that Zimmerman will walk, and black people will lash out. Despite the local sheriff’s understandable precautions, one tends to discount such predictions because of who’s making them. But is there any sense of the likely street reaction if Zimmerman is indeed acquitted?
jayackroyd
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes.
JPL
The laws should not allow concealed weapons. Wyatt Earp never felt the need to hide his weapon, why should we.
Did the “founding fathers” feel the need to hide their weapons? Concealed weapons take away my right to avoid places where assholes feel the need to pack.
raven
@JPL: Yep, we’ll get maybe Friday as decent and then it’s Katie-Bar-The-Door! WE drove to Loganville to get a bushel of butterbeans Saturday and the guy said produce is fixin to skyrocket because south Georgia is undewater.
Schlemizel
@Betty Cracker:
I knew that about heat lightning & given how flat & ope the state is I’m surprised I didn’t see it more often.
I remember one day driving down 95 by Titusville, it was bright sunshine, not a cloud in the sky. Way off South was this huge thunderhead, you could see it was black as night below but the column was shiny white. It had an anvil then more column then a second anvil at the very top. Lightning was jumping back and forth between the two anvils – it looked like something out of a sci-fi movie.
Dave
@jayackroyd:
Your quote raises a interesting point: it is considered a threat to display a firearm “in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.” If Zimmerman threw back his jacket to display his firearm to Martin before the first punch, I believe Martin would have legal justification to defend himself. I’m not an attorney, but I live in Florida and had a concealed carry permit for 10 years. Not anymore though.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Unless I am woefully off-base, there will be jury instructions on lesser included offenses.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Thx, I keep hearing that the prosecution “over-charged” and I was unsure of the ramifications.
Betty Cracker
@Amir Khalid: I really don’t know. Nothing would really surprise me. Over the holiday weekend, I was at a few events where the case was a hot topic of conversation, and I was amazed at how differently people perceive the exact same evidence and testimony.
To some, Zimmerman is obviously a cold-blooded murderer who stalked and killed a child, and the state’s witnesses were all credible while the defense witnesses were clearly bald-faced liars. To others, Martin was a no-good punk who got what was coming to him for jumping Zimmerman, the state’s witnesses were lying and all the evidence obviously supports Zimmerman’s story. And just about every point between those two poles was also represented.
Shakezula
@BobS: I’ve had this discussion with my husband, who keeps reading websites with a high concentration what I will charitably call racist libertarian fuck toads. (They are also claiming there will be riots proof being something someone saw on Twitter.) But at one point we got into a conversation about stand your ground. For some reason people interpret the law as “Stand your ground if you have a gun.” Which isn’t the case.
NickT
@Betty Cracker:
Was there any difference in the views of the case taken by men and those taken by women? I have been wondering whether the all-female jury might make a difference.
PaulW
@Schlemizel: Central Florida at night during lightning storms can be brilliant: a lot of the lightning stays in the clouds, giving you an incredible light show.
MomSense
@Betty Cracker:
Zimmerman sentenced him without trial to execution for the crime of walking home with candy and ice tea. It is just infuriating that the child who was killed seems to be the one on trial.
I don’t know what will happen in terms of the verdict but I do think that those of us who are so distraught by this have to find a way to support Trayvon’s family and friends so they know that there are people who care about them and know an injustice when they see it.
jayackroyd
@JPL: That’s an interesting question. You can try to infer why people concealed carry from posts like this:
http://www.usacarry.com/ideal-concealed-carry-gun/
It would seem that openly carrying would have a deterrent effect that concealed carry wouldn’t. (“An armed society…) OTOH, widespread concealed carry might have the same impact as lojack on auto theft. I have a friend who advocates concealed carry for young women.
Or I suppose we could ask @Dave. @Dave, why did you have a permit to concealed carry?
I had a friend who worked for the state tracking down fugitives. He carried, concealed, I suppose for the same reasons he worked plainclothes.
PaulW
@Betty Cracker:
Can anybody explain to me why Zimmerman was in the right when the 911 operator TOLD HIM NOT TO PURSUE Trayvon and wait for the cops and yet Zimmerman continued to? For me that is the key point of this whole thing.
All Trayvon had on him during his walk through a neighborhood to his home with a bag of skittles and a bottle of tea. All Zimmerman had was a gun.
It’d be nice if we could get Trayvon’s version of events. But, oh yeah, almost forgot, HE WAS SHOT DEAD.
MomSense
@Shakezula:
The same people who are furious about al Awlaki not given due process.
debbie
@BobS:
You’re right. According to my local weatherman, sound travels no more than 10 miles, so what you’re seeing is lightning that is further away than that. He also says that if you can hear thunder, you’re close enough to be struck — lightning can strike up to 10 miles away from the cloud.
balconesfault
But what if the rioting hoardes are 2nd Amendment fetishists out to protest a guilty verdict against poor Zimmerman, who was only out prowling the street and accosting young men in self defense?
Svensker
@jayackroyd:
Yup. Time for the “others” to start open carrying with signs about Second Amendment Solutions.
Cassidy
So, some interesting going ons in the world of combat sports. First, the uniformly recognized greatest fighter of all time got beat this weekend and was knocked out to boot. The underdog created some chaos, but it’s nice to see things shook up.
This weekend, Invicta FC 6 is happening. They’re the female fight organization and they’re moving up to PPV. The main event is one Cris “Cyborg” Santos takes on Marloes Coenen for the FW belt. Cyborg won their first match, but was later caught for steroids. She should be clean now and is tested frequently by IFC, but still has a significant amount of muscle mass, Coenen is a Dutch kickboxer and submission wiz and I’m hoping she wins. The card also features Thug Rose Namajunas, Rowdy Bec Hyatt, Joanne Calderwood, Leslie Smith, and Sarah D’Alelio. The whole card looks good and it’s not expensive.
The topic of fighter pay has been big in MMA news lately. Usually it comes from former UFC guys who are written of as whiners and complainers, but recently one of the more big names, Ted Kennedy, said it was too low. Kennedy is an interesting character. He left active duty, Ranger and Special Forces qualified, to fight full time and has had marginal success, fighting for a couple of belts but never getting the prize. He’s a bit of a douche and not nearly as likeable (marketable) as Brian Stann, the Silver Star awarded Marine Officer, so he doesn’t get the UFC’s promotional love. This past weekend he made 90K in a win, but that’s abnormal. Most fighters in the UFC make 6K to show and 6K to win; that’s the start and usually fight 3-4 times in a year. They can also win performance bonuses and get sponsorships, so the potential for money is there. The uFC also gives out non-disclosed bonuses in the locker rooms and say “trust us, we pay them”. The answer seems to be a union of some sort, but no one in the game has stepped forward to take charge.
Dave
@jayackroyd:
I had a concealed carry permit because at the time I went target shooting quite a bit. If you own a gun for whatever reason, getting a concealed carry permit is a wise thing to do because with a permit, innocent violations of certain weapons laws become a misdemeanor instead of a felony.
balconesfault
@Soonergrunt: On the ammo front – an interesting piece on NPR the other day – an ammo manufacturer who was having to hire to keep up with demand, while at the same time fully recognizing that the current demand is a bubble based on an unfounded premise.
Svensker
FYWP won’t let me edit. So, no “open carry” — then conceal carry with the signs.
flukebucket
@raven:
I had the privilege of watching that light show from about 40 miles away. You guys were definitely getting hammered down there.
Betty Cracker
@NickT: Unsurprisingly (to me, anyway), the “Martin was a no-good punk” people were almost invariably men. However, many women also think there should be no consequences for Zimmerman because they don’t believe he set out to kill Martin and view the case as more of a tragic incident in which no one was really at fault rather than a criminal case.
In Elon’s thread yesterday, Mnemosyne compared that “no-fault” view (which I would guess is the predominant view, at least in my neck ‘o the woods) to the attitude some people take toward motorists who accidentally kill bicyclists. I think it’s a good analogy for how that subset feels about the case: They think it’s a tragedy, but they don’t believe anyone should be held to account for it.
raven
@flukebucket: I’ve never seen lightning last that long.
jayackroyd
@Svensker:
As @OmneOmnibus points out, as long as you’re okay with the consequences.
But there is something profoundingly fucked. They get to use their guns to intimidate protest. It’s instructive to read the SCOTUS history on interpretation of the 2nd amendment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_case_law_in_the_United_States
United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875) – A post Civil War era case relating to the Ku Klux Klan depriving freed slaves basic rights such as freedom of assembly and to bear arms.
Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886) – This second post-Civil War era case related to the meaning of the Second Amendment rights relating to militias and individuals. The court ruled the Second Amendment right was a right of individuals, not militias, and was not a right to form or belong to a militia, but related to an individual right to bear arms for the good of the United States.
United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939) – The Court stated in part:
“In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a “shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length” at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument.
District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008) – The Court ruled the Second Amendment to reference an individual right, holding:
“The Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.”
jeffreyw
Illinois passed a concealed carry law over the governor’s veto yesterday. I think a Federal court ordered the state to do so, hazy on the details.
Punchy
If Zimmerman is convicted and all the rednecks riot, are blahs allowed to follow through with their 2nd Amendy remedies?
jayackroyd
@Svensker:
Is it concealed carry if you wear a button saying “I’m carrying. Don’t fuck with me.”?
What if you do that when you’re not carrying?
What if you open the box and see whether the cat is dead, and if it is you carry otherwise not, but you always wear the button?
Joking aside, I do think we could figure out civil protests that would demonstrate that our gun policies are an incoherent mess.
jayackroyd
@Dave: Thanks.
Again. I hate getting stuff wrong, and was seriously interested.
balconesfault
KThug calls out a bunch of his economist colleagues for espousing austerianism not because they believe it – but because there’s a Democrat in the White House.
We could have tested that proposition if Mitt Romney had won. But doing that test would have been a clear case of unethical human experimentation.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/political-inflationistas/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto
NickT
@Betty Cracker:
I am not surprised by the attitude of the men, which seems to be more or less what I would have predicted. I am somewhat surprised that the women see this as a no fault case. I would have thought that Zimmermann’s documented actions (and lies) would have made that an unlikely understanding of the situation.
JPL
@Svensker: The reason that I promote open carry, is that I would walk out of a store if someone was there with a gun. Once it effects the economy, then the laws “might” change.
rikyrah
live blogging of the George Zimmerman trial here:
http://3chicspolitico.com/2013/07/10/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-day-12/
Rosalita
good luck with your Rodney King riots, though I hope it’s that bad.
rikyrah
Don’t Say We Didn’t Warn You
by BooMan
Tue Jul 9th, 2013 at 06:46:46 PM EST
Jennifer Rubin couldn’t disagree more with Bill Kristol and Rich Lowry about immigration reform. For Rubin, who I think actually cares about maybe seeing a Republican president again in her lifetime, the opponents of immigration reform are hypocrites. They say that there is a big crisis at the border but they don’t want to do anything about it.
But Kristol and Lowry are probably more interested in their magazines’ circulation numbers than winning elections, so they take a casual attitude to the consequences of killing reform.
“It would be better if Republicans won more Hispanic voters than they have in the past—but…”
Where I come from a vote is a vote. If you lose a white working class vote but gain a Latino vote, it’s a wash. What Republicans like Ms. Rubin are trying to avoid is creating a situation where Latinos conclude, like blacks before them, that the Republican Party is implacably hostile to the interests- even their mere existence.
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2013/7/9/184646/0707
jayackroyd
@Betty Cracker:
I can’t put my hands on the article, and have to walk away shortly, but this no fault thing seems to be pervasive. You see it in KagroX’s gunFail stories.
The piece I’m thinking of a NYer is visiting a rural mountain west town with a friend who grew up there. And there are stories told, matter of factly, about various victims of guns, suicides, accidents, shot up living rooms–sorta like guns are just part of the environment.
Of course, the punch line is one of the local residents remarking “but isn’t New York dangerous?”
Punchy
Easy peasy. Organize the following:
Rally #1 on the east side of town — all white males, with concealed weapons, gun permits be dammed. Note the lack of cops.
Rally #2 on the west side, at the same time as Rally #1 — all young black males, with concealed weapons and all legal permits. Note the SWAT team, riot police, and tear gas.
balconesfault
@JPL: That echoes the reason I cheered that NY paper that published the list of locals with carry permits. If my kids going to another kids home to play, I’d prefer it to be gun free.
MomSense
@Botsplainer:
Puppy will survive. You can play with him when you get home and all will be forgiven. My “poopy” is at the other end of the experience now. We figure he sleeps about 23 out of 24 hours now.
Snarki, child of Loki
@Punchy:
Sure! But for dealing with a riot, handguns are not the tool of choice.
I suggest shotguns. For extra goodness, load them with Skittles.
rikyrah
GRIFTERS GOTTA GRIFT
………………………
WikiLeaks’ Money Trail: How It’s Raising Money for Snowden & Assange by Caitlin Dickson, Eliza Shapiro
Jul 9, 2013 4:45 AM EDT
Julian Assange has acknowledged the irony: a group dedicated to
transparency has truly murky finances. Caitlin Dickson and Eliza Shapiro report on how it’s getting funding for Snowden and more.
…The main artery funneling WikiLeaks’ donations through cyberspace is Wau Holland, a Berlin-based hacker organization that manages WikiLeaks’ finances, at least publicly.
…The Wau Holland Foundation was created in 2001 by members of the German Chaos Computer Club, one of the world’s oldest hacker groups, and started official operations in 2003. That was three years before WikiLeaks was founded, but even then Julian Assange was in contact with the foundation’s members, said Bernd Fix, a founding member of Wau Holland.
“We don’t know who these people are,” Fix said. “We are not the NSA, you know. People can donate anonymously.”
While Fix said the typical donation is small, around $20, Wau Holland also has received some serious piles of cash. The biggest bundle it’s taken in for WikiLeaks was $50,000, from an American donor. Fix knows who it was but isn’t telling.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/09/wikileaks-money-trail-how-it-s-raising-money-for-snowden-assange.html
jayackroyd
@balconesfault: There’s plenty of evidence. Start with Medicare Part D.
Shakezula
@MomSense: Er. Not in this case.
Dave
@jayackroyd:
Telling someone that you’re carrying a concealed firearm means that your firearm is no longer concealed and you can go to jail for it.
BobS
@Betty Cracker: I’m someone who doesn’t think Zimmerman set out to kill Martin when he left his house that night to pretend to be a cop or when he initially saw Martin, but he certainly created the conditions for the “tragedy”. He stalked the kid by car on a dark street, ignored instructions by the police dispatcher to stop his slow-speed chase, (I think) resumed his stalking after the kid successfully eluded him, then exited his vehicle (which there’s no fucking way he would have done were he not armed) and escalated the situation (possibly with gun drawn) which led to Trayvon Martin standing his ground. Again, I think the prosecutor fucked up, possibly by over-charging- I don’t think so- and definitely by not constantly reminding the jury this was a scared kid on a dark street trying to defend himself from an armed stalker.
Cacti
@Betty Cracker:
I’ve thought from the start that Zimmy would walk or get a hung jury, for reasons having nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
The ugly and uncomfortable truth is that we of the tribe caucasian, even those who profess to be non-racist, have been conditioned to reflexively think “trouble” when we see an unfamiliar black face. This is the filter through which the nice white ladies of the jury are hearing this case.
NickT
@BobS:
I thought it was very telling that Zimmermann made up a complete lie about Martin rushing him from some bushes while yelling threats. Thing is, there are no bushes at the location where this menacing scene supposedly took place – and nobody else in the vicinity heard Martin’s threats.
Maxwel
Google seems to be down.
Face
@Punchy: Or have a blah male with a valid permit in a open carry state walk by a KinderKare with a AR-15.
Cacti
@rikyrah:
Criminal organizations tend to have opaque finances. No surprise there.
balconesfault
@Cacti: The ugly and uncomfortable truth is that we of the tribe caucasian, even those who profess to be non-racist, have been conditioned to reflexively think “trouble” when we see an unfamiliar black face.
White teen walking through the neighborhood, gets accosted by a black man with a gun, and wrestles said black man down and bashes his head against the ground, he’s a hero practicing self-defense. Black teen accosted by white man with a gun, he’s a punk who deserved to die.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I think all of Martin’s supporters should wear shirts saying “Guess which one of us is carrying.”
Betty Cracker
@BobS:
Agreed. I hope the state hammers that point in the closing arguments — and that the five moms on that jury can imagine their kids in a similar situation. I don’t know enough about legal strategy to have a strong opinion about the charge. But one thing I’m still gobsmacked by is that the state introduced the video of Zimmerman doing his reenactment for the cops.
From what I gather, the defense couldn’t have done so without exposing Zimmerman to being called as a witness. But since the state entered it, Zimmerman’s account is out there in his own words without having to risk cross-examination. It seems to me the state could have highlighted inconsistencies in his accounts of the event using written statements rather than that video. I think that was a terrible mistake.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@rikyrah: They would probably qualify for tax exempt status here.
ChrisNYC
@PaulW: The defense is obviously really worried about this as they tried to spin that both the 911 operator and the woman who was the PD neighborhood watch coordinator either were not clear or could have been interpreted as giving Z directions to pursue TM. Both of those attempts were unsuccessful, to my ear. The extent of testimony on it, I thought, pointed up the role of the following in what happened. This is part of the reason that I think Z doesn’t get acquitted.
jayackroyd
@Dave: I’m trying to reconcile that with the “brief non threatening” exposure in the code I posted. I take your point, of course.
What if the button said “Sometimes I carry”? Or “I have a concealed carry permit”?
That would make me no different from a buttonless person, wouldn’t it?
Is the ownership of the permit a matter of public record? (I don’t think it is here in NYC. It’s hard to get a permit to carry,and the people who get permission are often prominent. Teh google doesn’t give me an answer in two minutes.)
debbie
@BobS:
Don’t assume the prosecutor won’t bring that up during his closing.
Anya
@Betty Cracker:
Anyone who believes that Martin got what was coming to him is a heartless racist pig who does not think blacks are humans. I can understand something thinking, yes, Zimmerman should’ve stayed in his car and waited for the police but maybe he got scared once he got into an altercation with Martin. But anyone who thinks Martin was a thug because he smoked a little weed thinks all black people are violent thugs who spend all their time plotting how to defraud the system and hurt whitey.
Dave
@jayackroyd:
As I understand it, inferring to anyone that you’re carrying is bad news. And the names of concealed carry permit holders are not public record in Florida.
Fun fact: until recently when you got your permit it was autographed by “Charles Bronson.” No kidding. The permits are issued by the Department of Agriculture and at the time the Commissioner was a fellow with the name Charles Bronson. So his signature was on all of the permits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_H._Bronson
Schlemizel
@jayackroyd:
There was a story out of FLA a bit after the Martin murder about a woman who shot in the air to scare off her abusive ex when he violated a restraining order. She was convicted of a gun crime (forget which one) despite the STG law. Wanna guess how much melanin she had in he skin?
BobS
@debbie: I won’t be, but I think he erred in not making it the arching narrative of the entire case, not only because it makes Trayvon Martin a sympathetic victim making testimony like we heard yesterday essentially moot but because it rings stronger of the truth than any other explanation.
Kay
@NickT:
Because he has to turn Martin from a 17 year old joking on a cellphone into a crazed killer or his story doesn’t make any sense.
He’s also trying to establish this clear demarcation between Act One and Act Two, because Act One was recorded (and doesn’t look so good for him) and he’s the only (living) witness to the alleged completely unprovoked attack by the crazed killer 17 year old.
NickT
@Kay:
Absolutely – but you’d hope that any competent prosecutor could rip that story apart in five minutes flat. It’s absolutely clear that Zimmermann has lied – and has done so knowing that he’s as guilty as hell.
D58826
@BobS: Lisa Bloom has been livid the past two nights on MSNBC. She doesn’t think the prosecutors have been aggressive enough in their cross of the defense witnesses, esp. the expert yesterday. They should have had their own expert to prep them with questions about the methods that the defense expert used in reaching his conclusions. She said the ‘rip your heart out’ comment was so far over the line and there should have been an objection. She also has been pointing out what other commenters here have said – Martin was acting in self defense from a perceived threat of some guy following him. She also raised the point that if Zimmerman had his gun in the holster, under his slacks, a shirt and a jacket, how did he get it out of the holster when laying flat on his back with Martin sitting on him raining blows to his face?
The local cops and prosecutors did not act until there was a national outcry over this. It might not be tin-foil hat territory to think that they overcharged on purpose and are just going thru the motions of trying the case. Once the all white jury comes back with an acquittal, they are off the hook.
D58826
@Schlemizel: Actually she put a hole in the dry wall of the garage. Fortunately the dry wall was expected to recover with no lasting side effects.
She was sentenced to 20 years to life w/o parole. And yes she had an excess of melanin
rikyrah
New scandal revelations imperils Virginia’s McDonnell
By Steve Benen
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:00 AM EDT.
Just last night, while reporting on Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell’s (R) efforts to address one aspect of the scandal surrounding him, Rachel noted that the governor’s term in office ends officially in January, but “smart bookmakers everywhere are taking bets on whether or not he makes it that far.”
In light of a new Washington Post report, published this morning, the odds of McDonnell’s political survival are considerably worse.
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/07/10/19393239-new-scandal-revelations-imperils-virginias-mcdonnell?lite
Kay
@NickT:
That is the state’s theory of the case. Exactly that. My feeling is (and I don’t know of course) they didn’t advance an alternate series of events on what Martin did because they didn’t want to turn this into a trial on Trayvon Martin’s guilt. He isn’t on trial. If that’s what they were thinking I see how they ended up here, with no defense in The Trial of Trayvon Martin, which IMO is what this turned into, despite what I consider genuine efforts by the judge not to allow that to happen.
It’s obscene. It fucking infuriates me because he has NO VOICE. He’s silent.
Dave
@D58826:
The local cops wanted Zimmerman charged immediately but the DA wanted to wait.
Betty Cracker
@rikyrah: That corrupt SOB needs to resign now, and good riddance!
Betty Cracker
@Kay: That’s my take as well. I don’t think the state is trying to throw the case at all. But they have made some serious mistakes, or at least I think so from over here in the peanut gallery, but I am SO not a lawyer.
NickT
@Kay:
In some ways, their performance reminds me of Marcia Clark in the OJ trial – hesitant, bumbling, apparently on the back foot when they should be on the attack against a defense which is nothing more than a collection of fantasies and lies.
Woodrowfan
I’m struck by the fact that when the black kid felt threatened and defended himself with his fists he was in the wrong, but when the light-skinned man felt threatened and shot a kid, it was supposedly OK. A perfect illustration of racist assumptions in society.
Woodrowfan
@rikyrah:
I wonder if the stories about him were spreading enough last summer that he got bumped off of Mitt’s short-list for VP?
NickT
@Woodrowfan:
I think they assumed that they had to make some sort of impression on Obama’s states in the Midwest/Rustbelt and that Virginia would come home along with them, so McDonnell wasn’t really going to do much to help their chances in the big game. And then they picked the blue-eyed granny-strangler and that obviously turned out so well for them.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
It IS sort of conceptually complicated, though.
I felt like reading his assembled statementss and interviews that he was obviously developing a story where he was the victim of the crazed killer 17 year old (you’ll notice Martin TURNED INTO exactly what Zimmerman deciddd he was the second he laid eyes on him, so Zimmerman was RIGHT!) but maybe they were too rigid, too locked into the idea that “it says RIGHT HERE this is State v Zimmerman!”
IMO that’s an occupational hazard for prosecuters.
NickT
@Kay:
What gets to me is that Don West has looked like a complete jackass on several occasions – and yet the prosecution seems incapable of taking advantage of this fact.
D58826
Slightly off topic but just to lighten the mood – the Sage of Wasilla, aka the wicked witch of the worth, is thinking of running for the Senate. That has disaster written all over it!!
Patricia Kayden
@MomSense: Hear hear! That’s exactly how I feel. I don’t see Trayvon as a punk at all. I see Zimmerman as a trigger happy idiot who killed a kid for no good reason at all. He may walk but this murder is gonig to dog him for the rest of his life — no different than what happened to OJ Simpson, who eventually messed up and is in jail as we speak.
I really hope Mr. & Mrs. Martin understand that there are many who sympathize deeply with their loss. I hope they find some kind of peace with their son’s senseless murder. Good on them for making sure that Zimmerman was charged and tried since it appears that many on the Right would have been fine with him not even having to stand trial for Trayvon’s death.
Woodrowfan
@NickT: I don’t think it was the only reason, I just wonder if there were whispers of a ticking time bomb. But yes, they were probably one-deaf enough to think Virginia was safely red. (bwahahahahha)
Kay
@NickT:
Zimmerman’s story completely fits Zimmerman’s profile of that kid. He WAS up to no good, walking to his father’s house! He WAS a f*cking punk! He was simply looking for an opportunity to assert his heretofore buried inherent thuggishness!
George Zimmerman was RIGHT.
That to me is the bigger danger of the “message” the trial sends.
Patricia Kayden
@Schlemizel: Blackity black black? I know she is Black because that story was covered by Al Sharpton. Sad that she’s in jail now and will probably be there for a long time even though her ex-husband wasn’t killed and she had no intention of killing him.
Kay
@NickT:
I disagree with you there. I think that WILL hurt him. I think he went after Martin’s mother too hard, in a really slimy wheedling manner. She outclassed him. He’s also patronizing and arrogant lecturing the judge on FL law. The jury didn’t hear that, but it’s not at all appealing.
NickT
@Kay:
I fear that the message will be that we have a justice system rigged in favor of white men with guns and a lust for vigilante killing of non-white people – and that’s fine with the white people who run so much of America. In other words, it ain’t murder if you are white and it can’t be self-defense if you are black.
NickT
@Kay:
If the jury didn’t hear it, I don’t think it’s going to matter, sadly. I do retain a little hope that the women of the jury will feel some solidarity with the victim of a clearly unnecessary killing. I think that they might decide that Zimmermann is guilty of manslaughter so as not to let a killer walk completely, even if they don’t see murder two as being proven beyond reasonable doubt.
TerryC
@jayackroyd: I agree. My favorite would be to get millions of people putting “Concealed Cary Onboard” stickers on their windows.
TerryC
@jayackroyd: I agree. My favorite would be to get millions of people putting “Concealed Carry Onboard” stickers on their windows.
TerryC
@jayackroyd: I agree. My favorite would be to get millions of people putting “Concealed Carry Onboard” stickers on their windows.
NickT
@TerryC:
“This area patrolled by the Black Panther Stand Your Ground Home Defense Militia”.
Patricia Kayden
@D58826: Does it? Why don’t you think Palin could win a Senate seat in red red red Alaska? I think she could easily. Wonder why she’d want to do that though given it’s not as lucrative as Fox News or reality tv shows.
Betty Cracker
@Kay:
She sure did. If Zimmerman is convicted of something, it will be thanks to Sybrina Fulton.
Kay
@NickT:
I actually feel pretty strongly about this. I’ve HAD a 17 year old who takes information in and ACTS according to his spinal cord, or something. Not a big talker. He would absolutely fight or flee if confronted with a strange, hostile adult who didn’t identify himself as some sort of quasi-law enforcement.
From MY parental view, Zimmerman is a threat in my neighborhood. I don’t know why I would have no choice but to accept his “help”. I don’t want it. Protect your own kids. Leave mine out of it.
Patricia Kayden
@NickT: Hasn’t that message already been out there? I will be much more shocked if Zimmerman is found guilty than if he walks off scott free given America’s history. After the Rodney King verdicts, where the police were on screen beating a man to pulp, I don’t expect White jurors to find their own guilty of crimes against Blacks. Just my opinion.
tybee
@JPL:
i hope we at least get some rain outta chantal. it has rained everywhere around here but not here. i’m still watering the garden.
D58826
@Patricia Kayden: Actually was thinking of what the loose cannon Palin would do to the already dysfunctional Senate
NickT
@Patricia Kayden:
I think this case is different in that it is the logical and desired outcome of the stand your ground law – which was very obviously passed with the aim of creating a separate area in the legal system within which white conservative men could act out their poisonous racist fantasies. I don’t hold just Zimmermann guilty of Trayvon Martin’s murder – I hold the GOP, their pet legislators, the people who funded them and the shock jocks who howled them on to be equally culpable.
Kay
@NickT:
I would be mad if I lived there. In the course of “protecting” the neighborhood you managed to KILL one of us, and it’s just no harm, no foul?
One starts to understand why no actual police agency hired him, so he had to.invent his own. Probably a good call on their part.
NickT
@Kay:
Well, you have to understand that those Skittles and soft drinks are a major threat to any neighborhood. That’s a clear and present danger right there.
D58826
The judge has denied the defense request to introduce the animation and Martin’s text messages.
The defense claims the text messages are relevant because they show Martins interest in fighting and physical prowess. Holy FSM, what 17 year old male isn’t interested in that.
Kay
@D58826:
I love that part, too. Martin had an “interest” in fighting.
Zimmerman actually trained to fight, but Martin is pegged with the “fighter” label.
It’s ridiculous.
Betty Cracker
@Kay:
Exactly. I don’t want these self-appointed, officious little gun-toting pricks “protecting” me and mine either.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
17 year olds are nuts enough when confronted with ACTUAL police. I think we’re going to have a lot of dead teenagers if the onus is on THEM to de-escalate or, ya know, “talk down” the armed adults.
“Stop helping us! We’ve decided to take our chances!”
D58826
At 17 the male brain is located somewhat south of the belt line. The assumption is by the age of 28 it has migrated north to it’s adult location. In Zimmerman’s case this may not be a valid assumption.
Omnes Omnibus
For people who are concerned that the prosecution is blowing it by not emphasizing certain things, you should remember that closing arguments are where the evidence is assembled into a story. Until then, testimony is coming out in what can seem to be a jumbled and bizarre order.
JCT
@rikyrah: Poor Gov Ultrasound. Actually, the best part of that story was the new information that Williams gave $$ to Cuccinelli as well. That he apparently didn’t declare. While Gov Ultrasound-in-waiting was involved in a case for his company.
Ruh-ro.
johnny aquitard
@D58826:
This occurred to me as well.
As usual, IANAL but Betty Cracker’s point of the dumbness of the prosecution letting a video do the talking instead of having Zimmerman take the stand also fits that explanation.
For the life of me, I can’t see why they didn’t do everything they could to get Zimmerman’s ass on the stand and be cross-examined. He’s already demonstrated his untrustworthiness (and stupidity) when he lied about his finances.
Tell me, you lawyers, why would a prosecutor NOT put the accused on the stand and sweat his ass when they already know 1) he lies and 2) he’s dumb, and 3) under pressure he does fucking stupid shit. It should be like chum in a shark tank.
The prosecution is, presumably, trying to prosecute this guy, right?
Makes me wonder.
JR in WV
@Dave:
Here in West Virginia, people granted carry permits are in a weekly (maybe monthly?) legal ad, like property transfers and divorces granted. So a neighbor grinned at me when I got my permit, and said “So, you’re carrying now?” – but of course I wasn’t, I was at a party where I intended to taste a couple of home-made beers.
Can’t carry with drugs on your breath!
Point is, it is public record here.
johnny aquitard
@Betty Cracker: These same kinds of self-appointed sheriff assholes will be the first to volunteer to ‘protect’ our kids in our schools, bank on it.
They’ve got something to prove, they’re just itching to prove it, and thus they are the very sort of people who should be DIS-armed in a building full of children.
Christ, they are the very sort of people who shouldn’t be armed, period.
Steeplejack
@johnny aquitard:
The prosecution cannot compel a defendant to testify. They can “sweat his ass” only if he voluntarily takes the stand to testify.
/Perry Mason
Kay
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s hard to watch, though. From a certain perspective Martin is going without a defense on charges of attacking Zimmerman.
Hell, he’s not even at his own trial! I hope they don’t sentence him. That could be a little awkward.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@johnny aquitard:
IANAL but, dude, 5th Amendment. You cannot be compelled to testify against (or for) yourself.
Omnes Omnibus
@johnny aquitard: As several others have noted, the prosecution can’t force a defendant to testify. The prosecution cannot bring attention to a defendant’s decision not to testify. A defedant has a right to sit silent and make the prosecution prove every element of its case.
@Kay: Yeah, it is awkward, but I am reserving judgment on how the prosecution did until after the closings.