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When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

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… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

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You are here: Home / TV & Movies / Movies / Open Thread: Preverting Tha Poplar Culchar

Open Thread: Preverting Tha Poplar Culchar

by Anne Laurie|  July 11, 20139:04 pm| 97 Comments

This post is in: Movies, Open Threads, Popular Culture, Religious Nuts

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Back in the late 1970s, I went to an author reading to hear Samuel R. Delany and got Orson Scott Cardboard as the opening act. Proud Mormon Professional Writer Card was happy to explain why he’d chosen to grace us sci-fi hordes with his awesomeness — he said he wanted to write ‘adventure’ and the only pulps still publishing yet-to-be-established writers were, tragically, sf/fantasy oriented. Then he read from his hot new Hugo-nominated story “Songbird”, and the sweaty delight he took in the torture-porn scenes repulsed me from further exploration of the Card ouevre.

Obviously I can’t predict what other people will find attractive in genre fiction, either. The Ender’s Game books sold a whole lot of copies, so of course there’s going to be a blockbuster movie now. Unfortunately for its backers, Card is a board member of the wildly misnamed National Organization for Marriage and a virulent homophobe, so people who are not hate-mongers are organizing a boycott. And this, OSCard whines to Entertaiment Weekly, makes him the real victim here.

Because I am a fan of bricolage, and tolerance, the juxtaposition at Paul Constant’s blog made me happy. First, Constant highlighted three excellent, heartfelt responses to Card’s high-dollar victimology.

And Constant’s very next post is titled “Should Spiderman Be Bisexual?“

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Reader Interactions

97Comments

  1. 1.

    Corner Stone

    July 11, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    Since it’s an open thread, I’d just like to say I hope someone decides to start really fucking bashing the James Comey for FBI nomination.
    Fucking disgraceful.

  2. 2.

    NickT

    July 11, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Shorter OSC:

    “My bigoted views, which I spewed out as often as I could when I thought there was money in it, are losing, so rather than admit i was wrong and hateful, I’ll whine and play the victim. Oh and please don’t boycott my work, because… er.. money.”

  3. 3.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    July 11, 2013 at 9:12 pm

    The only value of Ender’s Game is that it sets up Speaker for the Dead. The latter is a truly amazing book that I recommend highly. I’m not really sure whether it’s necessary to have read the first one to understand it. And there’s really no purpose in reading the two books after Speaker. It’s not that they’re bad, really, just that Card didn’t have anything additional to say.

    There are four Card books I really enjoyed: Speaker for the Dead and the first three books of the Alvin Maker series, Seventh Son; Red Prophet; and Prentice Alvin.

  4. 4.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 11, 2013 at 9:13 pm

    @Corner Stone: How so? Comey is one of the good ones. President Obama knows what he’s doing. He’s got this.

  5. 5.

    MikeJ

    July 11, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    When NOM calls for a boycott of Disney because they allow gay people in their amusement parks, that’s good old fashioned capitalism. When people decide they’d rather not enrich Card because he’s a bigot, that makes him a victim.

  6. 6.

    Anne Laurie

    July 11, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    @efgoldman: Yup! Watch City Brewing, seven-ish, next Wednesday. Plan to front-page it Friday (along with this weekend’s Seattle meetup, Yatsuno) and again on Monday.

    So far it’s you (plus maybe spouse), organizer Lahke, me plus spouse, SFAW, Regnaad Kcin, Antonious, Immanentize, and FormerSwingVoter…

    Lurkers & friends-of-the-blog welcome, y’all!

  7. 7.

    BGinCHI

    July 11, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    @MikeJ: Well, obviously. The free market is a flaming heterosexual.

  8. 8.

    Roger Moore

    July 11, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    I’ll believe Mr. Card’s claim the issue is moot when he resigns from the board of NOM and stops saying hateful stuff about marriage equality. Until then, it’s just a lame evasion.

  9. 9.

    Narcissus

    July 11, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    I think I posted this here in the last few days, but as a teenager reading Ender’s Game, which I did several times, I assumed the exact opposite about Card. It was homoerotic and awesome. Until I found out Card was “straight”. Then it was just weird.

  10. 10.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 11, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    bricolage

    This is a term I should have known long ago, and didn’t. Thanks, Anne Laurie!

    /come for the politics, stay for the words

  11. 11.

    BGinCHI

    July 11, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    @Narcissus: You are definitely on to something. These loudmouth angry fucks are almost always repressing (often badly) their feelings.

  12. 12.

    khead

    July 11, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    After we sign our lives away at settlement tomorrow, we will have pretty much done our part for the economy. So, it’s up to the rest of y’all now. Not complaining, just pointing out that someone else will have to rent the condo in Myrtle this year.

  13. 13.

    Roger Moore

    July 11, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    And there’s really no purpose in reading the two books after Speaker. It’s not that they’re bad, really, just that Card didn’t have anything additional to say.

    Except that they are bad. I’ve re-read Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead several times, but never had the slightest inclination to re-read the subsequent books, whose titles even elude me because they made so little positive impression. When an author has nothing to say but keeps writing because the series is popular, it’s a guarantee that the product is going to be worthless.

  14. 14.

    Corner Stone

    July 11, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I thought that was how all the structures were built back in your day?

  15. 15.

    Highway Rob

    July 11, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    I think Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead are great reads, great enough to hook me into the lesser sequels and spinoffs. However, here is where Card lost me, before I knew about his politics:

    Of course, I think Keanu Reeves is a terrific actor who absolutely can sustain both a character and a movie, and those who criticize him usually reveal themselves to be utterly ignorant of what it is an actor does or what good acting looks like. (Here’s a clue: It doesn’t look like acting. That’s why Meryl Streep is a constant irritant to people who understand what acting is supposed to be, and why Keanu Reeves is so wonderful.) Keanu Reeves can hold his own on the same screen as Laurence Fishburne.

    Written and published under his own name, at his own website. Link, although I wouldn’t recommend giving him the traffic.

  16. 16.

    Rob in CT

    July 11, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    I liked Ender’s Game, and the sequel. After that, as Tissue Thin Psuedonym said, he didn’t really have much more to say. I’m sad that he’s a big anti-homo (homophobe assumes fear, which I’m not sure about). It’s especially sad, since he seems like the sort to root for an underdog (like, say, Ender).

  17. 17.

    Rob in CT

    July 11, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    @Highway Rob:

    LOL! I’ve always disliked Meryl Streep, and have never been able to articulate why, exactly. I don’t see the connection to Keanu, but… well… LOL!

  18. 18.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 11, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    McKay Coppins is a douchebag, and no doubt future regular on Meet The Press.

  19. 19.

    GregB

    July 11, 2013 at 9:26 pm

    I plan on making the trip down from the Granite State too.

  20. 20.

    Corner Stone

    July 11, 2013 at 9:26 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Well, maybe you’re right. Comey did threaten to resign that one time. And he also argle bargled that one time. And something about Fitzgerald. And the whole Obama nomination thing.
    That’s really about all I know about him from my readings here so I guess I have to agree with you at this point.

  21. 21.

    Roger Moore

    July 11, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    @Rob in CT:

    It’s especially sad, since he seems like the sort to root for an underdog (like, say, Ender).

    Except Ender wasn’t really an underdog. He was a selectively bred super genius capable of killing other kids with his bare hands when he was 6 years old and then trained to commit genocide.

  22. 22.

    Carrie

    July 11, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    The news about Stuck made me really sad today. I hope there will be some kind of top billing mention, an open thread in memoriam from Cole. The General would’ve loved that.

    RIP General Stuck in Mud: Shine on you Crazy Diamond.

  23. 23.

    GregB

    July 11, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    @efgoldman:

    You bring the Naragansett, I’ll bring the Timberland Boots.

  24. 24.

    NotMax

    July 11, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    card’s claims of victimhood are the stuff of labored farce, but some of his other topically-related statements added to other developments (demise of that ‘ex-gay’ organization and other recent stuff) support a sneaking suspicion that the Mormon hierarchy has quietly sent out the word to tone down and take a step away from blatantly fostering LGBT intolerance, and that monies will no longer be showered on those who refuse to do so.

  25. 25.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 11, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    @Corner Stone: I’d agree with you if there any qualified Democrats. Who is he going to nominate? Russ Feingold or Bernie Sanders? Or Cindy Sheehan? Lol. You should be happy Obama doesn’t want a Democrat because that gives Greenwald an outside chance to get the job! Haha, Greenwald and a pony, a sparkly pony.

  26. 26.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 11, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Since it’s an open thread, may I just take a minute to be sad (out loud) for friends.

    No sooner had I seen the semi-confirmation of General Stuck’s passing, than I received an email from my best friend for the past 50+ years. We met in sophomore h.s. geometry class, were in each other’s weddings, saw each other infrequently, lost touch for great swaths of time then reconnected, saw each other in person joyously last year. Anyhow, she was told yesterday that she has lung cancer. Her husband is also dying, so this is just sucky sucky news.

    I was still absorbing that when a colleague came in my (former) office and told me he was just diagnosed with melanoma. I’ve known him for nearly the entire 25 years I’ve been at this job, knew his mother long before I ever met him (long, irrelevant but slightly interesting story there), and am just so pissed that this is happening. He was in the first tranche of Peace Corps volunteers in the early ’60s, was sent to Brazil where he met a woman and had two great kids, just a very very decent guy and one of the true unreconstructed liberals in these parts.

    I’m just devastated. And yes, they are both my age and these things happen at 70-71. Still sucks rope.

  27. 27.

    Spaghetti Lee

    July 11, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    I’ll probably still buy a ticket, because I liked the book. Rich writers with wacko opinions is nothing new.

  28. 28.

    PhaseIV

    July 11, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    How is James Comey not qualified?

  29. 29.

    ShadeTail

    July 11, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    Ender’s Game is only good if you don’t actually think about it. Ender is a completely unrealistic character, because in real life a six year old boy going through what he endures would be either a seething ball of hatred and rage, or utterly emotionally dead.

    And the secondary plot about his brother and sister taking over the world by starting flame wars on internet message boards was utterly absurd. It was even absurd back in the 1980s, when some people (like Mr. Card, apparently) were still naive enough to think that infinite connectivity would raise the human race to the highest common denominator.

  30. 30.

    Marc

    July 11, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    Chris almighty, does the Obama bashing ever get tired for the two of you? Get a room already…if you’re not two sock puppets talking to each other already.

  31. 31.

    Howard Beale IV

    July 11, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    Why anyone pays attention to the opinion of a believer in a relatively new religion that’s two steps away from Scientology on the evil scale is a mystery.

    Now excuse me while I pay my tithe to slack.

  32. 32.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 11, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    @Corner Stone: Absolutely they were, I just never had the vocaBILLery fer the STRUCKchering.

  33. 33.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 11, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    @Corner Stone: Ha, I see you pulled yer very own troll. Fucking show off.

  34. 34.

    Scott Alloway

    July 11, 2013 at 9:38 pm

    As a long-time speculative-fiction (Sci-Fi for most of readership) reader – 50 years, I read Enders Game, Speaker for the Dead, Seventh Son and Folk of the Fringe by Card. But Card’s political views just turned me off so much I won’t buy or read his writings. Still love Pratchett – been downloading BBC’s renditions of his stuff including Hogfather, Going Postal, Johnny & the Dead and more.

  35. 35.

    Anne Laurie

    July 11, 2013 at 9:38 pm

    @Narcissus:

    It was homoerotic and awesome. Until I found out Card was “straight”. Then it was just weird.

    Believe me, it was extemely icky listening to Card read his own sadomasochistic fantasies to an auditorium full of strangers. Only reading I’ve ever witnessed where I wanted to wash my hands afterwards!

  36. 36.

    PhaseIV

    July 11, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    You ever get tired of being the Troll with the Heart of Gold?

  37. 37.

    Baud

    July 11, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    @Carrie:

    I saw the Stuck thing earlier. What’s our confidence level that’s him?

  38. 38.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 11, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    @Carrie: I hope so too. Wish we could know what became of Charlie the Wonder Dog.

  39. 39.

    Cacti

    July 11, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    @Highway Rob:

    Of course, I think Keanu Reeves is a terrific actor who absolutely can sustain both a character and a movie, and those who criticize him usually reveal themselves to be utterly ignorant of what it is an actor does or what good acting looks like.

    Orson Scott Card was also arrogant enough to write a sequel to Hamlet.

    With a gay villain, natch.

  40. 40.

    kindness

    July 11, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    Usually I go to The Stranger to read Dan Savage. It’s nice to see others there as well.

    Thank you.

  41. 41.

    Anne Laurie

    July 11, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    @GregB: Kewl!

  42. 42.

    Suzanne

    July 11, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Oh, SHIT…..there was a confirmation about Stuck?! SHIT.

    Hugs to you. Sickness stinks.

  43. 43.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 11, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    @Baud: Its him, Baud.

  44. 44.

    Violet

    July 11, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    @Suzanne: Link to Stuck obit in comment: https://balloon-juice.com/2013/07/10/tire-rims-and-anthrax/#comment-4528091. We definitely need a FP thread for him.

    Edit: And John Cole has posted. Pending confirmation from funeral home.

  45. 45.

    Carrie

    July 11, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    @Baud:
    There’s no way that he would have stayed away from this place for this long unless something happened to him, also the location, the history he shared with us….i’m sure it’s him.

  46. 46.

    Anne Laurie

    July 11, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Still sucks rope.

    That, it does.

  47. 47.

    Baud

    July 11, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    I’ll wait for a better verification before having a drink in his honor.

  48. 48.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 11, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    @Suzanne: Well, semi-confirmation from one of the FPers (AL I think but wouldn’t swear) who said that the info in the obit seemed to match up with whatever behind-the-scenes info she had. Don’t take my word for it, though, because it’s all second- and third-hand.

    And thanks for the hugs. Hope you and your kitteh are both improving with each shining hour.

  49. 49.

    Cacti

    July 11, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    @Marc:

    Chris almighty, does the Obama bashing ever get tired for the two of you?

    Nah, the BJ emo-progs have one sour note that blow in every thread “Obama sux because ________.”

    And at some point, it will become a circle jerk.

  50. 50.

    Carrie

    July 11, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Poor Charlie, wherever he is i’m sure he’s missing his buddy.

  51. 51.

    aangus

    July 11, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    ‘Back in the late 1970s, I went to an author reading to hear Samuel R. Delany and got Orson Scott Cardboard as the opening act.”

    Many thoughts spring into my mind. The strongest being: “Oh, noes!!!”

    Went to a lot of Cons in the NE from ’79 – ’91.
    If that had happened at my first it probably would have put a dent in my fannish travels.

    Still, it beats being stuck in a VERY CROWDED elevator, on party night, for an endless five minutes, with a totally wrecked Jerry Pournelle.

    Trust me on this one.

  52. 52.

    mai naem

    July 11, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    @Carrie: Same here, I happen to peruse through BJ this AM before I left for work and that’s the post I saw. Crappy way to start the day.
    @SiubhanDuinne:About five years ago, I knew six people through work who had formed a clique outside work where three died pretty much one after another with different aggressive forms of cancer. All three were in their 60s and just good people. Really sad. Melanoma’s an ugly way to go.

  53. 53.

    John.Ty

    July 11, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    The guy reads like such a huge closet case. All the lovingly-wrought descriptions of, you know, naked boys are kind of confusing.

  54. 54.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 11, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    @Anne Laurie: @Cacti: I don’t know much about OSC, is the implication he’s a homophobe who’s “chosen” to be straight?

  55. 55.

    PhaseIV

    July 11, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Yeah, fuck it. H. P. Lovecraft was a racist.

    Let’s boycott Guillermo del Toro when he finally makes At the Mountains of Madness.

  56. 56.

    Anne Laurie

    July 11, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    @aangus:

    Went to a lot of Cons in the NE from ’79 – ’91.
    If that had happened at my first it probably would have put a dent in my fannish travels.

    Hah, we were probly in the same potential blast radius at least once or twice — my congoing days were ca. 1972-92, or thereabout, although we were living in the midwest until 1989. I’d been moving into dog-training fandom for some years by the time we moved to New England, and there was an obedience group that needed my participation in a way that NESFA obviously did not.

  57. 57.

    Cacti

    July 11, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I don’t know much about OSC, is the implication he’s a homophobe who’s “chosen” to be straight?

    Just a straight-up fire breathing Mormon bigot who hates him some gays as far as I know. With his personal level of obsession over it, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a deep closet case.

  58. 58.

    dm

    July 11, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    @Anne Laurie:

    Oh, is that the story where the protagonist gets sentenced to death, repeatedly? I read that story and thought it was so disgusting I didn’t touch another book or story by Card for about 20 years (until the Alvin Maker books — those were pretty good).

  59. 59.

    aangus

    July 11, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    @Anne Laurie:

    ChiCon IV 1982?

    P.S. Hung out with the likes of Filker Tom & Bob Asprin Choir.

    Good times.

  60. 60.

    Pogonip

    July 11, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: An Alpine cough drop, isn’t it? “Briiiiiiiiii-co-laaaaaggggge!”

  61. 61.

    Scott S.

    July 11, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    @PhaseIV: HPL ain’t going to get any royalties off “Mountains of Madness.”

  62. 62.

    Anne Laurie

    July 11, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    @aangus: Nope, I was a fanzine/apa fan — the only two worldcons I’ve attended were both in Boston, the most recent (2004) as a day-tripper hanging out with old friends…

  63. 63.

    Desert Rat

    July 11, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    @Scott S.:

    Right. All the stories are public domain.

  64. 64.

    The Other Chuck

    July 11, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    @PhaseIV: When Card has been dead for 76 years, then yes, some of the stink might wear off. In the meantime, he’s still a fucking board member of NOM.

  65. 65.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 11, 2013 at 10:40 pm

    @Pogonip:

    Hahaha. I like it.

  66. 66.

    Yatsuno

    July 11, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: :: hug :: I’m so sorry hon. The age doesn’t make it any easier.

  67. 67.

    The Tragically Flip

    July 11, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    He also, apparently admired Hitler and thought he was oh-so-clever in how he hid that in Ender’s Game. Also, too.

  68. 68.

    scuffletuffle

    July 11, 2013 at 10:59 pm

    @Anne Laurie: Would love to come but I have jury duty the next day in Springfield and three closings on Friday! I haz a sad…

  69. 69.

    aimai

    July 11, 2013 at 11:02 pm

    I liked Ender’s Game when I read it, and even sort of liked the book about Bean (Ender’s Shadow). But I agree with AL and others–its consistent eroticization of violence, and specifically nude boy violence–is very disturbing and reads as pedophiliac as well as explicitly manipulative of the reader. It forces the reader into complicity with the violence over and over again. I also found both books really sad in their inability to imagine any female characters who were truly female or in any way of use or of meaning. I mean, most of the male characters were equally unloveable/cruel/officious/useless but Ender’s aloneness (and beans) is predicated on stripping all maternal and feminine actors out of their lives. They are treated as orphans in a world where parent figures/protectors are either weak, or compromised, or uncaring.

  70. 70.

    Scott S.

    July 11, 2013 at 11:08 pm

    @Desert Rat: Plus he’s dead.

  71. 71.

    jake the snake

    July 11, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    I disliked Ender’s Game so much that I was not interested in anything else Card has written. I was not going to see the movie anyway, so my boycott is moot. Among many other things, I found the enabling of the Sociopathic brother to be very disquieting.

    I have some slight hope for Elysium, but can’t make up my mind about trying to see it in a theater or waiting for the DVD.
    I am still pissed off about the $7.50 I wasted on Into Darkness.

  72. 72.

    jake the snake

    July 11, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    I disliked Ender’s Game so much that I was not interested in anything else Card has written. I was not going to see the movie anyway, so my boycott is moot. Among many other things, I found the enabling of the Sociopathic brother to be very disquieting.

    I have some slight hope for Elysium, but can’t make up my mind about trying to see it in a theater or waiting for the DVD.
    I am still pissed off about the $7.50 I wasted on Into Darkness.

  73. 73.

    NonyNony

    July 11, 2013 at 11:18 pm

    @PhaseIV:

    Yeah, fuck it. H. P. Lovecraft was a racist.

    Yes, yes he was.

    Let’s boycott Guillermo del Toro when he finally makes At the Mountains of Madness.

    Why?

    I mean besides the fact that Lovecraft is dead and so isn’t going to be able to profit from movies made of his stuff, we’re talking apples and oranges here. Card isn’t just a homophobe – he’s a hatemonger. He sits on the board of NOM – one of the most hateful anti-gay groups in the country. Money that goes into Card’s pocket goes to fund hate. If people choose to say “hey, I don’t want to give this asshole my money” then that’s just the Free Market at work.

    For the analogy to work, Lovecraft would not only have to still be alive to spend the royalty money on a racist agenda, he would have had been something like a Dragon of the Klan or something – whether he likes it or not that’s the kind of position that Card is in now and history will not judge him kindly for it.

  74. 74.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    July 11, 2013 at 11:21 pm

    @The Tragically Flip: I read that kuro5hin article at the time, but had completely forgotten about it. Kind of funny how he referred to Jerry Pournelle, another legendary dick, but not by name.

    ETA: heh just noticed that I actually commented on that Article, under a different name.

    In the early 90’s I worked in a book store where Card did a signing, and he was a complete asshole to the entire staff.

  75. 75.

    CaseyL

    July 11, 2013 at 11:23 pm

    I liked Ender’s Game, and frankly adored the first three Alvin Maker books. Songmaster, though, was a disturbing read on many levels – the lingering eroticism around a boy, the sadism – and set off mental alarms. I was never able to read his work after that.

    Finding out he’s a hatemonger was not at all surprising; and Songmaster makes me wonder if Card isn’t a closeted gay but a closeted ephebophile/pedophile.

  76. 76.

    Emma

    July 11, 2013 at 11:24 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Late to the thread but I wanted to tell you how sorry I am. We’ve had a spate of bad news at work and even though I was not close to any of them I was greatly affected. Too many good people leaving us.

  77. 77.

    Gex

    July 11, 2013 at 11:26 pm

    It is laughable how often haters equate gays NOT paying them money to purchase their wares or services with us being intolerant, oppressive, and bigoted. These are people for whom freedom means, apparently, that gays must be compelled to buy their shit. That is what is in fact being claimed here. That if we do not pay to see his movie, we are intolerant.

    Fuck that noise. How about he gets to say and believe whatever the fuck he wants, and we get to tell everyone what he says and believes and then people can decide for themselves, in the marketplace of ideas, how they want to invest their attention and money.

    He, Paula Deen, and their ilk don’t seem to understand that the marketplace for conservative ideas doesn’t work the same way as the actual market place. There’s all kinds of wingnut welfare that makes the former work. The latter…well, any good marketer could tell you to protect your brand. Idiots.

    ETA: It is also laughable how quickly the big tough bullies tuck their tails and start crying like babies when the tide turns. Can you imagine how he’d react if he actually faced adversity like, say, gay people do?

  78. 78.

    Chris

    July 11, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Except Ender wasn’t really an underdog. He was a selectively bred super genius capable of killing other kids with his bare hands when he was 6 years old and then trained to commit genocide.

    Among other things, Ender’s Game strikes me as what John Scalzi calls “nerd revenge porn” (or maybe just “nerd porn”), a story about a very special child who’s picked on by everybody because they just don’t realize that he’s special and destined to save humanity). When you think about it, it’s not surprising that it came from the same side of the aisle that gave us “Atlas Shrugged.”

  79. 79.

    Chris

    July 11, 2013 at 11:36 pm

    @Highway Rob:

    here is where Card lost me, before I knew about his politics:
    …
    Of course, I think Keanu Reeves is a terrific actor who absolutely can sustain both a character and a movie, and those who criticize him usually reveal themselves to be utterly ignorant of what it is an actor does or what good acting looks like.

    I still read his blog (gives good nuggets about science fiction stuff from time to time), and based on what I read there, OSC strikes me as that pathologically contrarian kid who just HAS to disagree with you simply to prove that he’s smarter, no matter who you are.

    Which explains why even though he’s a right wing nutjob, he still identifies as a Democrat and occasionally lambasts the Republican Party as “racist” or “the party of the rich…” though anyone else doing it is just a left wing extremist.

  80. 80.

    Ronnie Pudding

    July 11, 2013 at 11:42 pm

    Personally, I think it is stupid to boycott a book because of the homophobia of the novelist. I cannot imagine the consistency bug won’t bite back at some point.

  81. 81.

    jake the snake

    July 11, 2013 at 11:47 pm

    @Chris: A. E Van Vogt’s “Slan” is another prime example of nerd revenge porn.

  82. 82.

    Crouchback

    July 11, 2013 at 11:58 pm

    Card was always to the right of Attila the Hun and the creepy sadomasochism elements in his writing have already been noted. I didn’t see a link to it, so I’d recommend this – http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm – as a pretty thorough takedown of Ender’s Game. As for me, I think Ender’s Game became a hit because it plugged perfectly into SF nerd psychology. Ender is this sensitive, lonely, put upon kid. He’s also gifted and special, in fact the savior of the world. Plus he’s a natural born hand to hand combat expert. On top of that he gets to twice brutally kill two kids bullying him while the author solemnly and insanely insists Ender had no choice but to kill or be killed. And he gets to evade any moral responsibility for his acts because it was all either necessary or beyond his control. Any guilt is just a sign of how sensitive he is. Personally I prefer Mike Hammer – at least Spillane has the decency to openly revel in his brutality. It’s all emo-porn. The appeal is a lot like the Twilight series – another Mormon authored series. Maybe it’s linked to the missionary work. I’m willing to watch Chinatown so I’ve got a pretty high threshold of disgust when it comes to artists. But Ender’s Game is frankly pretty bad and morally obnoxious in and of itself – that’s why you should avoid it.

  83. 83.

    Joey Maloney

    July 12, 2013 at 12:02 am

    @Rob in CT: I don’t agree with Card. There’s different kinds of acting, is all, just like there’s different kinds of food, and different people like different things. There’s actors that disappear into a role, like Daniel Day-Lewis. There’s actors who you can watch them work and see every decision that they made, like Meryl Streep or Michael Caine. There’s actors who have made a career out of playing “themself”, so every character they play is informed by their public image, like Sam Jackson or Jack Nicholson.

    I can enjoy watching all those types of acting, just like I can enjoy both chocolate ice cream and bi bim bop.

  84. 84.

    Xenos

    July 12, 2013 at 1:04 am

    When I read ‘Ender’s Game’ a decade ago I thought the ‘guiltless genocide’ to be interesting, but the link to Hitler never occurred to me. As Americans, and I would expect all the more so for Mormons, we often root around blindly for ways to be guiltless about the Native American genocide – I just assumed that was what was going on.

    That and the whole plot involving Jane being Mormon cosmology in action, what with the universe automatically budding off new creations in response to intelligence, so every good boy gets his ow creation to play God in.

    That last book about the planet of super-intelligent Chinese OCD sufferers who worship Chairman Mao’s wife as a goddess… I don’t even know how to unpack that one.

    So, how was the Delany reading?

  85. 85.

    RJ in West-of-Fuckall Tejas

    July 12, 2013 at 1:06 am

    @Ronnie Pudding: How about my reason?

    I think he’s a terrible writer and his stories are pathetic. :)

  86. 86.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 12, 2013 at 1:32 am

    @CaseyL:

    and Songmaster makes me wonder if Card isn’t a closeted gay but a closeted ephebophile/pedophile.

    One theory that’s been going around (with, I should stress, absolutely no direct evidence to support it) is that he was the victim of some sort of child abuse, and has come to believe that that experience turned him gay. It would explain a lot about his writing.

  87. 87.

    thruppence

    July 12, 2013 at 5:44 am

    I know I’m late to the thread, but Anne – why no praise for Samuel R. Delaney? African American and openly (although in the late 70s? I don’t know) bisexual, he must have been an incredible contrast to Card. His Babel-17 was the first book I ever bought – at an elementary school book fair off a spinning wire rack. Here is the cover that caught my 11 year old attention. His later novels became increasingly dense and surreal.

  88. 88.

    Sgaile-beairt

    July 12, 2013 at 7:27 am

    oh, phobia fits card bc he says gaydom is such a danger to TEH CIVILIZASHUNS that he, well, he was gonna start him a revolushun if the gubmint passed it….also too, its so alluring that the only way to save straight marriage is to throw, the most flamboynt ones, into prison, par encouragez les autres, you know….

    here are some of his quotes,
    http://www.glaad.org/cap/orson-scott-card

    ….oh, also a creepy forced birther, who thinks women who arent meek & sweet & popping out TEH BAYBEEZ and loving them, even if they were raped, are doomed to be wicked old witches, who deserve their fates….and hes said some squicky things about muslims too, in the past….so mch for overcoming xeno phobia!!

  89. 89.

    brantl

    July 12, 2013 at 7:57 am

    Orson Scott Card, homophobe, Islamophobe, generel -phobe. He’s scared of anyone who has a belief other than his, as he is an unreasoning zealot, who projects an unreasoning zealot onto everyone else. He ought to be scared of everything, I think, because being the chickenshit that he is, I’m pretty sure a mild breexe can knock him on his ass, just from his overreaction.

  90. 90.

    hartly

    July 12, 2013 at 8:22 am

    @jake the snake: This is the one about the evolutionarily (is that a word? – well it suits my purposes anyhow) advanced people who are persecuted by the normal majority? I can see how that might be a sort of nerd revenge porn, but I took it as an anti-prejudice novel. Of course it’s been a looooong time since I’ve read it, so my memory may be faulty.

  91. 91.

    Rob in CT

    July 12, 2013 at 9:18 am

    @Chris:

    Oh, it’s definitely nerd revenge porn. Which is probably why I rolled with it, having been the nerd kid who got picked on. But yeah, frankly it’s pretty sadistic at times and the lunacy about the twin bloggers taking over the world is, well, lunacy. There were interesting things in there, and setting up the sequel, when Ender works to make amends for genocide, was neat.

    Good point about Atlas Shrugged. Both tap into the “you’re really special, it’s just that bad people are keeping you down!” thing. Except none of us are actually John Galt or bred to be supermen (thankfully).

  92. 92.

    RSA

    July 12, 2013 at 9:28 am

    It’s funny how old the idea is that the kid in the story, whether Ender’s Game or Slan, has special powers because of a breeding program—it’s “You’re secretly the son of the king!”

  93. 93.

    hartly

    July 12, 2013 at 9:47 am

    @Scott Alloway: Does Terry Pratchett have offensive political views? I wouldn’t have guessed from his books.

  94. 94.

    rea

    July 12, 2013 at 10:03 am

    The great theme of his work does not necessary become obvious until you’ve read several of his books, but they are always about the precocious child mastering sex and violence. That made me stop reading him long before I became aware of his politics.

  95. 95.

    Rex Everything

    July 12, 2013 at 10:05 am

    I read one OSCard book, and one was enough. HE SUCKS ! ! Man, how he sucks!

    However, it’s pretty amazing that he’s written so many books, cause it must be hard to type with one’s head up one’s asshole.

  96. 96.

    The Stolen Dormouse

    July 12, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    @aangus: Nothing strange about that. Pournelle was always bombed at the meetings of the American Association for the Advancement of Science as well as the concordant meetings of the National Association of Science Writers. Especially when there were presentations about the Strategic Defense Initiative (i.e.–Pres. Reagan’s “Star Wars”).

  97. 97.

    The Stolen Dormouse

    July 12, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    I think it was sheer brilliance of the the SF Con’s organizers to have the Samuel R. Delaney’s reading following Card’s. After all, Mormons in the 70s loved blacks and gays–and Delaney was both (as well as Delaney being a googolplex better writer than Card).

    Forget about Card–go read something by Delaney, if your local library still has any.

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