A 700-pound, 11-foot-long croc does the perp walk in West Central Florida this week:
Luckily for the critter, he’s not destined to become a pair of kinky boots:
The crocodile was sent to a rehabilitation facility in South Florida and will most likely be released back into the wild.
The woman who called the trapper on the croc had a very Florida comment once she saw how big the creature was:
“Man, after seeing that thing and how big it was,” she said, “I’m just not afraid of gators anymore.”
In other local-ish news, the judge will give the jury of the Zimmerman trial instructions at 2 PM today, and they’ll commence deliberations. I watched some of the closing statements from both sides and thought the prosecution recovered a bit from earlier bungling.
I still believe Zimmerman has a better than even chance of getting off, though. Please feel free to discuss whatever.
Jewish Steel
Music review!
I don’t think I’ve ever sat down and listed to this whole album. It’s pretty good! Joplin’s voice is incredible, obviously. It’s very guitar heavy. The guitarist swings along a spectrum from competent to good. He’s quite imaginative, but his playing lacks a certain fluidity and his phrasing is kind of ham-fisted. This might not be his fault if he never expected to be mixed so prominently.
Janis Joplin & Big Brother and the Holding Company – Cheap Thrills
Mike E
Unless that’s an introduced exotic, it’s an alligator.
/pedant
burnspbesq
Watch emoprog heads essplode! The co-sponsors of a Senate bill to bring back Glass-Steagall are Warren and … McCain!
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/07/11/senators-introduce-bill-to-separate-trading-activities-from-big-banks/
Betty Cracker
@Mike E: Nope — it’s a croc. See the linked article. And note the narrowness of the snout.
Keith G
@burnspbesq: How will that cause the violent combination to which you refer?
BobbyThomson
She ain’t got the time and her daddy thinks she’s fine.
Lavocat
He already got off. Now he just wants to be acquitted.
? Martin
I wonder if a man would ever be fired for being too attractive?
But any really hot Iowa women are welcome to move to CA. We have much better employee rights here.
quannlace
“The crocodile was sent to a rehabilitation facility in South Florida”
********
Was this an episode of ‘Intervention?’
Culture of Truth
“I’m just not afraid of gators anymore”
It’s not like it was carrying skittles or something.
Just Some Fuckhead
Lemme guess, the croc is a Republican and he was caught with an underage female?
Snarki, child of Loki
@Betty Cracker: That’s right!
Florida is in a rare club: home to Alligators AND Crocodiles AND Land-Sharks.
If only the first two would gang up and eat the third…
Comrade Jake
Snowden has obtained a passport from the World Service Authority, which, so far as I can tell, is kind of like The Human Fund.
MikeJ
Obvs part of the global warming hoax.
S. cerevisiae
Too bad the croc wasn’t swept up in a tornado…
Yatsuno
I know AL will post this later, but BJ meet-up tomorrow at Pike Place Brewery 8pmish! Have a vague headcount but I’ll try to get better numbers this evening.
Someone get me out of work please. One little earthquake that’s all I ask…
@Betty Cracker: Teeth are on the outside. Gators are all internal chompers.
Amir Khalid
@? Martin:
I’ve wondered about this. The woman was fired not because of anything she did, but because of the insecurities of her employer’s wife. How is that a justifiable firing?
Ted & Hellen
As I work from a home office/studio, I was able to watch almost the entire Zim trial.
If the verdict is based on what was presented and what went down in the courtroom, as opposed to being based on the decibel level of the know nothing lynch mobs outside, Z SHOULD be acquitted.
Anyone who watched the trial and says otherwise is frankly, delusional.
Not that, you know, evidence and testimony and shit matters or anything, I know, I totally get that. He should fry.
Betty Cracker
@quannlace: Yeah, I got that Amy Winehouse song stuck in my head when I read that.
mdblanche
“You can go to Hell – I’m going to
TexasNew York.”Comrade Jake
@Ted & Hellen:
Anyone who willingly chose to watch the Zimmerman trial is frankly, delusional.
raven
@Jewish Steel: You never listened to this? Wow. This is from Festival Express, not Big Brother but check her out live. Tell Momma
sound not so good on this version but it’d bring a tear to your eye if you ever saw her live
Cry Baby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXM9X_L07zY&list=PLBD8E1DCF28E5F568
Yatsuno
@Comrade Jake: It’s Special Timmeh. He of course knows DA TROOF!!! about Zimmerman being a total innocent lamb against that horrid thug Martin armed with his terrifying tea and Skittles. It’d just be totes obvs if you weren’t such a racist.
cmorenc
Since the croc was sent to a “rehab” center, query what kind of therapy / vocational rehab courses will he undergo to hopefully deflect his life onto becoming a useful member of society instead of a thug. I somehow doubt he’ll be able to find future employment in a petting zoo.
Trollhattan
Crock rehab–who knew?
Does this mean he’ll stop trying to eat Zeeba Neighba and quit the Zeeba Zeeba Eata frat?
Elizabelle
@Culture of Truth:
Tee hee re Skittles.
Nate Silver reviewed two childrens’ books for NY Times, on Albert Einstein and mathematician Paul Erdos.
Review starts out like this:
and ends with a plea to embrace our inner nerds (and young and upcoming nerds).
Thought y’all might enjoy.
Trollhattan
@Ted & Hellen:
Anyone who watched the trial and says otherwise is frankly, delusional.
Ah irony, you never take Friday off, do you?
Mike E
@Betty Cracker: Oops, got it.
Plus, the ability to walk upright shoulda been a give away, also. Too. ;-)
Citizen_X
CROCOCANE!
liberal
@Ted & Hellen:
There’s two different issues here.
One issue is whether he’s plausibly innocent under FL’s SYG law.
An entirely different issue is whether he’s innocent in a non-failed state where homocide (at least against the blahs and browns) hasn’t been legalized. Under an actual just, coherent legal regime, he’s clearly guilty of at least manslaughter: he assaulted (as in “approached in a hostile manner”) someone who was minding his own business for no good reason, started a fight, and then used deadly force when none was shown against him.
Real justice would be some anonymous do-gooder putting a bullet in his head, after executing (in some manner consistent with FL’s law) that woman who apparently spear-headed the effort to pass it.
The Moar You Know
@burnspbesq: I don’t care if it’s Satan/Cheney, Sensenbrenner, the NRA and Sarah Palin introducing that legislation; it needs to pass and get put into law yesterday. Good for Warren and good for Senator Crash Landing.
S. cerevisiae
@Citizen_X:
Even better. Eric Clapton could play the theme.
Cassidy
@Yatsuno: Have you noticed that when anyone mentions Zimmerman it’s like turning on the Batshit Signal?
liberal
@Amir Khalid:
I thought most employees in most states are at will or whatever it’s called, and no justification need be given.
Comrade Jake
@Elizabelle: Love it! Thank you!
I suspect there are more than a few Juicers who know what an Erdos number is.
liberal
@Cassidy:
Sadly, he’s not the only batshit persona on this topic around here, though admittedly there aren’t many.
raven
@Cassidy: Is that what the idiot is babbling about now?
liberal
@The Moar You Know:
Devil’s in the details. I’m sure someone could write up legislation that looks great which the banksters could find oodles of holes in.
The Moar You Know
@Amir Khalid: It’s legal.
I’d hate to have to justify it. “Yes, I am a basket of fears and neuroses and I find my husband untrustworthy. He feels the same way. So I made him fire her.”
kindness
But will she still vote for Governor Bat Boy next time?
@Jewish Steel:
You are shitting me, right?
gbear
@Jewish Steel: That was Janis’ hippie band. They weren’t technically all that good, but at least Janis and the band were on the same wavelength at the time. Once the music business started pushing Janis to use a bunch of ‘professional’ musicians, her desperation level began to increase. She was starting to get it musically back under control for the Pearl album, but she ultimately flamed out before it was finished. I wonder what would have happened if she had stayed with her hippie band and told the music industry to stuff it.
MomSense
From our tea party governor LePage. LePage vetoed bill to increase minimum wage because Mainers deserve more than the minimum.
http://www.dirigoblue.com/2013/07/lepage-vetoed-bill-to-increase-minimum-wage-because-mainers-deserve-more-than-the-minimum/
Cassidy
@raven: Prettymuch. Knucklehead is knucklehead.
Xecky Gilchrist
@liberal: Yup, that’s a big part of the point of “Right to Work.” The boss can toss you for no reason at all, legally, which really means they can fire you for any bullshit reason or delusion they might fever up in their heads.
MrSnrub
@liberal:
From what I gather, he waived his defense under SYG back in April. I’m not sure what the rationale was.
Mnemosyne
Christopher Darden’s closing argument in the OJ trial is supposedly one of the best many lawyers ever heard.
Didn’t do the prosecution much good, though.
jrg
@liberal:
SYG was waived by the defense.
The evidence doesn’t seem to support that view.
raven
@gbear: Ball and Chain is insane.
Citizen_X
@Jewish Steel: The guitar playing isn’t Earth-shattering, but I think the band did some wonderful arrangements on that album.
Spaghetti Lee
What goes on in crocodile rehab, exactly? “Hi, my name is Chompers, and I have a problem with tearing humans’ limbs off.” “Hi, Chompers…”
NickT
@Trollhattan:
Well, T & H’s work consists of telling the world about this incredible method by which his sister earned $7992 last month alone working from home.
Comrade Jake
@Mnemosyne: In fairness, it is tough to beat “If it doesn’t fit, you must acquit!”
greennotGreen
Trayvon Martin was being followed by an armed adult (of course, presumably he didn’t know he was armed.) Why shouldn’t he have felt threatened? If Zimmerman wouldn’t stop following him, wouldn’t Trayvon have the right to “stand his ground”? Why does that give Zimmerman the right to shoot him?
Maybe that’s exactly what the Florida law says: you can start a confrontation, and if you’re losing, you can escalate it to the point that someone dies. In which case, Zimmerman gets off scot-free. And the Florida law is seriously fkd up, but we knew that. But if Trayvon had been a white girl, is there a jury in the United States that wouldn’t convict Zimmerman, SYG law or no?
? Martin
@Amir Khalid: Iowa is a
right-to-workright-to-be-fired-for-any-reason state.Mnemosyne
@Yatsuno:
Don’t forget, Timmy had sooper sekrit information that the accusers in the Sandusky trial weren’t plausible and the prosecution was going to drop all of the charges. Yeah, not so much. So I don’t put much credence in his legal acumen, to say the least.
LAC
@Yatsuno: We should just be relieved that Timmeh is inside, watching something.
PurpleGirl
@Amir Khalid: If you live in an “at will” state (like NY) you can be fired without cause, unless you’re covered by a work contract or union contract, of course. (IOW, you are working “at [the] will” of the employer.)
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Elizabelle: My youngest, 8, has picked up that ability from me. It’s fun giving him two 5 digit numbers and have him adding them in his head.
I agree with Silver that multiplication is harder to do now, because I’m out of practice. But, I bet, given a mean and standard deviation, he could not only give you the first and second standard deviations, he can probably also come up with the student’s T for various sample sizes without paper.
Persia
@Amir Khalid: “The court said such firings do not count as illegal sex discrimination because they are motivated by feelings, not gender.”
…so if he felt sad the lady wouldn’t fuck him, that would be a justifiable firing too?
cmorenc
@Ted & Hellen:
This was certainly true in the infamous OJ trial: based on the evidence at trial a “not guilty” verdict was indeed the justly correct verdict by the jury, even though most people’s heuristic gut impression that OJ was in fact guilty as sin of the murders he was accused of is probably also correct.
However, I’m not so sure Zimmerman will get off with a NG verdict, especially now that the judge has ruled that they will be offered the option of a lesser-included charge of manslaughter rather than 2D murder. A HUGE problem with Zimmerman’s handling of the situation was that he admitted that he never informed Trevon Martin that Zimmerman was following and approaching him in the role of neighborhood watch, simply wanting to check out an unfamiliar stranger to the neighborhood, but instead got out of the car with a loaded gun with the safety off, ready to fire. Zimmerman approached Martin in an ominously threatening manner with the presumptive mindset that the only explanation for Martin’s presence was that he was a burglar casing the place, expecting the likelihood of provoking a violent response from Martin which he’d need a loaded, ready firearm to deal with.
Betty Cracker
@liberal: That would be Marion Hammer. I don’t advocate anyone shooting anyone else, but Ms. Hammer certainly has a lot of blood on her hands.
The Moar You Know
@MrSnrub: Appeal gold. If convicted – which won’t happen – it goes to appeals, they assert SYG and he walks. But better to do it the first time around. I thought his defense had a pretty solid strategy as far as that goes.
mdblanche
@burnspbesq: I thought their heads already essploded earlier today when a Gitmo detainee sued to remove a legislative constraint on executive power.
greennotGreen
@MrSnrub: Oh, okay, I didn’t know that he had waived SYG. Maybe it was to prevent the prosecution from turning it on its head, that Trayvon was the one standing his ground.
Comrade Mary
@Comrade Jake: It’s the great-granddaddy of the Kibo and Bacon numbers, right?
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: The band was raw and scorching and a perfect complement to Janis’s vocals.
Steeplejack
@? Martin:
Sheer douchebaggery. If this guy was so worried about temptation and threats to his marriage, why not have an all-male staff? Unless he was worried that OMG they would turn him ghey!
Not to mention that at age 33 his assistant was practically an old hag. He had already survived the years of maximum temptitude!
Gindy51
@S. cerevisiae: Nope, it has to be JJ Cale, the original version please. Clapton did a nice cover, but the Cale is THE only one that is great.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_%28song%29
gbear
@raven: Yep. I didn’t mean to imply that BB&tHC were lame because they weren’t ace technicians. They did some cool ensemble playing (lots of interweaving guitars) and were intense as all get out. I love that album.
Amir Khalid
More than one lawyer among the Juicitariat has pointed out that it’s all up to the jury, and it’s a brave person who would predict how any one case will go. But unlike the commenter at #18, I am not wholly convinced that acquittal is the only likely course. This is what’s beyond dispute: acting against police advice, an armed grown man followed and then confronted an unarmed teenage boy; in that confrontation, he shot and killed the boy. I find it hard to believe there should be no criminal consequences for the man’s lack of good sense which resulted in a needless death.
Steeplejack
@Jewish Steel:
It is a good album, and it holds up surprisingly well. The one-step-above-a-really-good-bar-band backing actually supports Joplin’s vocals really well. Makes it all sound somehow more “authentic.” I find myself going back to that more often than, say, to Pearl.
Comrade Mary
@Comrade Mary: And then there’s the Erdos-Bacon number. No Kibo kombinations that I can find, though.
Mnemosyne
@cmorenc:
After reading Jeffrey Toobin’s book about the trial, I wouldn’t put it quite that categorically — it could easily have swung to “guilty” based on the evidence at trial, especially if a lesser charge had been allowed — but there were many, many screwups by the LAPD, particularly in evidence handling, that allowed the defense to open plausible holes in the prosecution’s case.
Toobin says in the book that part of the problem was that the LAPD had become overly reliant on confessions and their evidence gathering had gotten sloppy, which is why you had stuff like the medical examiner absent-mindedly leaving blood evidence in his car on a summer day.
? Martin
@Comrade Jake: My Erdos number is 3. My wife’s Bacon number is also 3.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Moar You Know: If it was waived at trial, it can’t be raised on appeal. Except collaterally as a part of an ineffective assistance of counsel claim.
NickT
@Amir Khalid:
I think that the jury will take the manslaughter option, but I wouldn’t put money on it either way.
MrSnrub
@The Moar You Know:
If the defense voluntarily waives it, I’m not sure how they can bring it up in appeal, but then again, IANAL.
My best guess was that defense counsel wasn’t sure that they could argue SYG when Zimmerman deliberately went after Martin, but could argue self defense after the altercation began. Dunno.
I am happy about allowing manslaughter in deliberations.
NickT
@? Martin:
My Bacon number is 24/7. Oddly enough, that’s also my Coffee number.
Mnemosyne
@Amir Khalid:
And yet that’s kind of what the attitude is here in the US. In another thread, I brought up the fact that it’s very, very difficult to get someone charged for injuring or even killing a bicyclist with their car because most people drive cars and automatically sympathize with the driver, not the injured or dead person. And, thanks to the Republicans, most people have an attitude that only “bad people” commit crimes, so they won’t sentence an otherwise “good person” to prison if they make a mistake that kills someone because a “good person” couldn’t possibly commit a crime.
The Moar You Know
@Mnemosyne: My former father-in-law, head of the public defenders office here (and a former assistant DA in San Francisco), said the OJ prosecution team put on the worst performance by any lawyers that he’d ever seen in a courtroom. Had some pretty choice words for Ito as well, but as far as he was concerned the outcome of that trial rested 100% on the heads of the prosecution.
Citizen_X
@cmorenc:
Which, most likely, would have defused the situation.
Which bugs me most about gun nuts, and crazy aggressive cops: not admitting that, if possible, they have a responsibility to de-escalate a potentially deadly situation.
Omnes Omnibus
@NickT: My Bacon number is 3. I don’t think I have an Erdos number; I have never published anything with a co-author.
JWL
Nullification being all but essentially effected by the backward people of the backward States of the Union in congress, why shouldn’t Floridians, Alabamians, Arizonians, Texans, et.al. be forced to set up shop for themselves?
When a kid can be hunted and murdered by a twisted racist with a gun, and that state’s law has afforded him a reasonable chance of acquittal, why shouldn’t decent people elsewhere be permitted to divorce themselves from those governmental entities?
Ah, you might say, “decent peoples” is the fly in the ointment…
gbear
@Mnemosyne: In MN one motorist was recently convicted and another turned himself in (at the insistence of his family) for hit and run of bicyclists. Hitting a biker is taken pretty seriously here, usually resulting in jail time.
Trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
Pretty much this. Even if “Cheap Thrills” was their second album it was the first most folks heard and, remarkably, hit #1. Considering Janis’ breakout performance at Monterey in ’67 it’s not surprising the live opener makes “Cheap Thrills” hit the ground running.
Looking at the Billboard charts from October ’68 is quite a musical journey, with the likes of Jimi, The Beatles, Aretha, Creedence and Jeannie C. Riley.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ll be damned. I thought there were no crocodiles in North America
As to other Florida news, Josh Marshall sums up my feelings
Also, too, I don’t believe (among other things) Zimmerman’s story about how the gun, excuse me, Zimmerman’s “firearm” was introduced into the confrontation.
Trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
Not to mention the odd behaviors of judge Ito and the prosecution team.
gbear
@gbear: No edit – fywp. I should have said ‘hit and run resulting in death of a bicyclist’.
Cassidy
Are you all about to start talking about how amazing Eddie Van halen is again? Good god, it’s like sitting in the break room of the old folks home.
scav
I once ate a bacon sandwich. I consider myself well in the average on this metric at least. whew!
Betty Cracker
@Citizen_X:
And that’s my beef with the SYG law: It was designed explicitly to remove the “duty to retreat” that previously existed.
Comrade Jake
If you’re itching to kill off a few of your brain cells at some point today, read this and thank me later.
A former technology writer for the NYT explains why she’s a creationist. The piece really is mind-numbingly stupid.
liberal
@jrg:
Of course the evidence supports that view. But thank you for helping to fill out the roster I alluded to above with Sadly, he’s not the only batshit persona on this topic around here, though admittedly there aren’t many. I remembered one commenter in particular with a 3-char handle; must have been you. Thanks for outing yourself as a batshit crazy justice hating moron.
Omnes Omnibus
@Omnes Omnibus: My Sabbath number is no higher than 5.
realbtl
@Trollhattan:
I agree that the ’67 Monterrey era was Janis’s best. I was there and the band just blew everyone away. They played the Sat afternoon show and were so impressive they were fit into the Sat night show, the only group AFAIK that did 2 shows.
Cassidy
@Citizen_X: Gun nuts consider themselves to be “the solution” to any problem. It’s the Charlie Bronson fantasy.
@JWL: No shit. I live in Florida and I say put it to a vote. Threaten to cut these fucking crazy ass red states loose. And if you have darker skin that didn’t come from being white and on the beach/ tanning booth, get the fuck out because at some point odds are good some crazy ass cracekr is gonna try and kill you.
gbear
@Cassidy: We’ve all seen what an old Eddie Van Halen looks like. We’ll just stick with talking about Janis for now.
Redshirt
I hope that Croc can get his right to vote back once he’s out of the clink.
Steeplejack
@Cassidy:
Hey, are there any hot chick fighters beating each other’s brains out this weekend? Maybe you could update us on that. We are mostly elderly white shut-ins, as Fuckhead put it, but we do like to support women’s sports.
Redshirt
@MomSense: If Michaud runs, I’m now confident LePage is out of there next year. I’m not the biggest fan of Michaud, but he’s boatloads better than Governor Lout.
Now, if Michaud does run, I suspect his House seat will flip.
peach flavored shampoo
Does this include Aaron Hernandez?
liberal
@Betty Cracker:
IMHO someone killing her with a gun and then successfully invoking SYG would be the epitome of awesome.
Unlike General Stuck, who I thought was a douchebag but whose loss (as I wrote in another thread) was a net negative for the world, this woman’s execution would be a large net gain.
The Dangerman
My Zimmerman prediction:
He’s found guilty of manslaughter (2nd Degree looks like a bit of a joke)…
…and pardoned by Rick Scott on his way out of town. NRA rejoices.
Cassidy
@Steeplejack: Lighten up Francis. ;)
But since you bring it up, yes. There are a number of young, talented women competing at Invict FC 6 this weekend. And bonus that they are very fit and attractive, but personally, I’m hoping to see Rose Namajunas do something even cooler than the flying armbar she did last time and see Marloes Coenen win the FW belt.
Jewish Steel
@raven:
@kindness:
Not formally. I’ve heard every track before somewhere. Still, kinda crazy. I woke up this morning burning to remedy oversight.
liberal
@Comrade Jake:
A much more interesting case is Richard Smalley, one of the guys who got the Nobel for “buckyballs.”
My impression (see Wikpedia entry) is that he became an “old earth” creationist after he became a Christian nutjob after he got cancer. Pretty weak, but then again he’ll always be a hero to me for destroying Eric Drexler on self-replicating nanotech. (Of course, the ever-idiotic Ray Kurzweil proclaimed Drexler the winner, which is LOL funny.)
Trollhattan
@The Dangerman:
In Florida, who imposes the sentence, jury or judge? IIUC a Florida manslaughter conviction can stretch into decades.
Too bad croc’s not on the jury.
“We, the undersigned jury, find the accused delicious!”
scav
@The Dangerman: How many others see the PoliPRañas designing a presidential campaign entirelty on the strength of it?
NickT
@Cassidy:
No Miesha Tate on the card?
I don’t know whether I can give the event my bipartisan approval.
liberal
@Mnemosyne:
Jesus Christ, I hate that kind of small-minded stupidity.
Jewish Steel
@gbear:
@Citizen_X:
@Steeplejack:
I agree generally with y’all that its lack of polish and occasional clunkiness is part of its charm. Nothing like this would ever get any kind of financial backing from the entertainment monster these days. It’s got just loads of personality.
Cassidy
@NickT: Miesha Tate is signed with the UFC and currently filming the next season of TUF. She’ll be fighting Rousey, again, at UFC 168 which is in December (I think). Rousey was scheduled to coach against Cat Zingano who defeated Tate by 3rd rnd TKO, but she hurt her knee and needed surgery, so Tate was asked to step in and got a title shot.
Cassidy
@Jewish Steel: But with social media, who really needs backing from media giants anymore? It’s not easy, but it’s not as hard as it used to be either. A good band can develop a following and make a living these days without that kind of backing.
NickT
@Cassidy:
Well, good luck to her from her most detached fan.
Davis X. Machina
@Redshirt: Concur. IMHO Kevin Raye, would win, perhaps win in a walk — no incumbency this time. The GOP may do themselves a favor and not run a mouth-breather.
Trollhattan
@liberal:
I don’t care what newspaper is is, any time there’s any article about cyclists, bike lanes, cyclist injuries or death, the preponderence of comments are rabidly anti-cyclist, typically framed in teabagese.
It’s depressing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cassidy: Never liked Van Halen. Now go watch a crappy movie before I sic Wes Anderson on your low brow ass.
Punchy
I agree with you, but you have clearly spent little to no quality time in America’s wang. Calling it a cesspool is insulting to cesspools. Aside from B. Cracks, there’s nary a decent person in the state.
Zimmy walks. Miami riots.
raven
@Jewish Steel: Give Quicksilver a listen sometime.
Tone in DC
@? Martin:
I suspect that these Iowa judges are a bunch of reprehensible ODS sufferers.
Also, and such as.
Mnemosyne
@gbear:
I live in Los Angeles, the hit and run capital of the United States, so pretty much no one voluntarily turns themselves in or has their family urge them to turn themselves in. It’s even worse for pedestrians, but bicyclists have been getting hit a lot this year.
@liberal:
That kind of thinking could end up in play with the Zimmerman case — the jury could picture themselves accidentally shooting an “intruder” who turns out to be an innocent person and decide that if they did it completely by mistake, they shouldn’t be punished, so therefore Zimmerman shouldn’t be punished, either.
Cassidy
@Omnes Omnibus: Man, you olds are cranky today. No tapioca?
Just for the record, I like Janis Joplin and get annoyed as hell anytime I’m at a karaoke bar and some drunk southern girl thinks she’s gonna belt out Me and Bobby McGee. I also feel the same way about poor reditions of Amy Lee.
Mnemosyne
@The Moar You Know:
Yes, the LA District Attorney’s office routinely fucks up high-profile cases. Vincent Bugliosi was an exception to the rule. OJ, Michael Jackson, and Lyle & Erik Menendez are much more typical of what happens when the LA DA’s are in charge of a case.
raven
@Cassidy: OO ain’t old, get your chronology straight. 44 years ago tomorrow I was in Sydney on R&R and we landed on the moon!
Jewish Steel
@Cassidy:
I’m kind of down on rock bands post, say, the late 90s. I honestly haven’t heard anything that I didn’t find derivative or boring or idiotic or tired or all four at once.
I cannot prove it’s not the result of incipient get-off-my-lawnism. But I deny it all the same!
Trollhattan
@realbtl:
Lucky, lucky you! Each and every time I stumble across “Monterey Pop” while channel-surfing (rare, but it happens) I’ll stop and watch it. Simply a magical string of performances.
I didn’t discover until recently that the Lou Adler, who was in large part responsible for the festival, is “dude next to Nicholson” at Lakers games.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
See, I’m so old and cranky I just stop there.
Now get off my lawn and get a haircut
Cassidy
@raven: He’s older than me. ;)
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@liberal: Which side was he on, and how did he destroy Drexler?
raven
Or try What About Me by Quicksilver:
I work in your factory.
I study in your schools.
I fill your penitentiaries.
And your military too!
And I feel the future trembling,
As the word is passed around.
“If you stand up for what you do believe,
Be prepared to be shot down.”
Southern Beale
I have the dumbest troll on the internet. I just did a post on how not all undocumented workers want to become US citizens, many just want to come here to work without putting their lives at risk and have some workplace protections while they’re here. … after a lot of back and forth with my troll over “pathway to citizenship” BS he finally got to the delicious, racist nub of his anti-immigration reform argument:
I am so grateful we got to the point. Finally.
Amir Khalid
@Punchy:
… And Mr. Roberto Martinez, who wrote this in the Miami Herald. (Cited by Josh Marshall at TPM.)
ETA: I once spent four days in Florida, covering a software conference. So you’re right, I haven’t spent much time there at all.
Cassidy
@Jewish Steel: Well, the 90’s was ana amzaing time for music, so I can get behind that. I like a lot of what’s out there now, but you’ve all seen my taste in movies and I’ll listen to anything except pop country. There is some good stuff going on right now, though.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: In my defense I get dragged there. My wife really can sing, enjoys it, and I like it when she drinks tequila. I, on the other hand, can sing about as well as anyone else in a chorus as long as you don’t try and pick out my voice.
rikyrah
Sybrina Fulton:
Day 24 – As I sit in the courtroom I’m realizing that God is using
me to stand up for my son, your son and all teenagers black, brown and those that wear hoodies. The bottom line is you all have rights too. If you don’t stand up for something positive you will fall for anything. No weapon formed against us will prosper. In the name of Jesus. XOXOXO
rikyrah
@keithboykin
John Guy’s best line yet: “This case is not about standing your ground. It’s about staying in your car.”
@keithboykin
John Guy: Why didn’t Trayvon Martin go home? Use your common sense. Did he really want to lead Zimmerman to his house? [went on to note that the only other person home was a 12 year old boy]
rikyrah
@keithboykin
John Guy: Trayvon Martin was a son, a brother, a friend, and the last thing he did on this earth was try to get home.
@TheReidReport
John Guy: “this case is not about race. It’s about right and wrong.” #ZimmermanTrial
@TheReidReport
John Guy: “if the situation was reversed and 17 year old TM was driving around in a car, followed and shot GZ what would your verdict be?”
@AngryBlackLady
That last bit was brilliant. John Guy said it’s not about race, and then made as close to an ‘A Time to Kill’ argument as he could. #J4TM
PaulW
@Mike E:
It’s a croc. There is a difference in the scaling and snouts. Crocodiles usually aren’t that far north in Florida, but I think the burma python infestation has driven them out of their natural habitat.
BIBLE_DUDE1
Let us remember that the Zimmerman trial was politically motivated from the start and it’s mere existence ids a gross miscarriage of justice.
BobbyThomson
@Betty Cracker: You ain’t the only one.
kindness
@Jewish Steel: Well I am older than most here. re- BB&THC/Janis. Yes I’ve bought this one on vinyl, CD & then gold disc CD.
The one criticism that I had heard from folk who actually went to the Big Brother shows (I am not that old, but I do have several bootlegs) was that Janice did not do a good job jamming on songs. She wasn’t good at changing the tempo or key. If it wasn’t like they had practiced it she fell apart. Now I don’t know how true this is but I can say that in all my Big Brother bootlegs, they all follow the songs pretty strictly. Not much difference from one show to the next.
Still I love/d Janice. She was/is and icon and a force in rock history.
raven
@BIBLE_DUDE1: You are a stupid Rush listenin cocksucker.
Cassidy
@raven: Sock puppet, dude.
PaulW
@Punchy:
The possibility that the jury goes with manslaughter is there: the judge did allow the lesser punishment. The jury may have reasonable doubt about what actually happened but the result is still the same: Zimmerman shot an unarmed kid whose “crime” was walking home with a bag of skittles. If the jury has an out with the manslaughter, they’ll take it.
raven
@kindness: Kinda hard for a vocalist to “jam”. When I saw her sit in with Johnny Winter in the fall of 69 she did blast off a bit!
Yatsuno
@Southern Beale: It’s Good News Friday!!! Also. Too. :)
Davis X. Machina
@BIBLE_DUDE1:
Lo tirtzach
raven
Joplin & Winter
rikyrah
@rodimusprime
It feels like John Guy is arguing for the right to simply be a black male and EXIST in America right now. I feel like he’s arguing for me
Seanly
@Comrade Jake:
She seems to have no understanding of the scientific method. Does she have any background in science other than having been a tech writer? She’s so ignorant that her understanding of phones & computers is almost a reliance on magic.
When I was a grad student, a professor was ranting about tech. He was worried that we were developing 2 classes of people – those who understood science & how technology works and the great uneducated masses. We got a chuckle out of it at the time (1996), but I now kinda agree with him.
raven
@Cassidy: Cut the head off of it as soon as it rises up. . .
D58826
@greennotGreen: After listening to the defenses closing argument in which Zimmerman was depicted as the victim since he is a haplessly weak man attacked by a teenager who carries a concrete block around as a weapon, I would vote to convict for two reasons. 1. Zimmerman is obviously to helpless to be left without a minder so best place for him is in jail. 2. . The defense must think I as a jury am stupid. The concrete block as a weapon doesn’t pass the smacked a** test. But in the real world I suspect he will get off
PaulW
@BIBLE_DUDE1:
The miscarriage of justice is that Zimmerman was Trayvon Martin’s judge jury and executioner. Zimmerman saw a black kid he didn’t know and he freaked. He called 911 and then ignored the operator’s instructions to wait for the cops. He carried a gun with him and pursued a teenager carrying a bag of Skittles and a bottle of iced tea. If anyone had the right of self-defense it was Martin. But we’ll never be able to ask Trayvon his side of events, will we, because Trayvon Martin is dead.
Citizen_X
@raven:
Wow! And to think HST and his lawyer only made it as far as bat country!
raven
And Janis and Big Brother at Montery should be seen by all you pups.
Origuy
The World Orienteering Championships are wrapping up in Vuokatti, Finland. Allison Crocker had the best showing by any American ever in an individual competition, finishing 18th in the Long course, 25th in the Sprint,and 29th in the Middle distance. Simone Niggli of Switzerland won all three distances; she now has 23 WOC gold medals, the most by any orienteer.
Mårten Boström of Finland, who ran track and cross-country at Northern Arizona University, won the men’s Sprint. Thierry Gueorgiou of France, who has been dominant in the last few years, won the Long, but lost to Leonid Novikov of Russia in the Middle distance.
The Relays are tomorrow.
MomSense
@Redshirt:
Yeah I am not feeling good about all of this. I had really hoped we could just hold those two Congressional seats and focus on the Governor’s race and keeping the legislature. Collins is up for reelection as well but I don’t see anyone providing much of a challenge to her.
I bet Raye will run for his seat and do well.
raven
@Citizen_X: My trip was all expenses paid!
Southern Beale
@Yatsuno:
Indeed, it is. And sorry to say, a paltry contribution but I just was too busy … but yes, there is SOME good news!!!
Ted & Hellen
Anyone who knows this case also knows the following:
Z’s prior involvement with putting a witness in touch with the cops regarding an earlier burglary, led directly to the arrest of the dude who actually did the crime, and who happened to be black. (racist!)
M was not on the sidewalk, but on and off the lawns of neighborhood homes, occasionally looking in windows.
Zimmerman was never told to stay in the truck, in fact was already out of the truck when the operator said “we don’t need you to do that.”
When he was told “we don’t need you to do that,” Z turned back toward the truck.
Z did not approach M with gun drawn.
Z did not continue following M and had lost sight of M just before the altercation.
M, not Z, was on top in the hand to hand scuffle before the gun went off.
The Martin brother and son changed their story about who it was screaming on the recording.
On and on the list goes, but don’t let inconvenient facts get in the way of your need to convict George Zimmerman for the pleasure of your political/social biases, and to preserve your preferred narrative.
It also should be noted that Z is on trial for alleged crimes committed under Florida law at the time of the incident, not for past sins of the white races against African Americans.
All of you here, on an alleged progressive blog, should of course be championing that last sentence, instead of braying for vigilante, “we don’t need no stinkin’ evidence or laws” type bullshit.
But then many if not most of you are comfortable with the Bush/Cheney cabal and the banksters and Wall Streeters all walking away from their murder and mayhem, so it is true that I’m looking for consistency where there is none.
Jewish Steel
@kindness: In Janis’s defense, it’s one thing to noodle away on your guitar, bass, keyboards, what have you. I am not a big fan of improvising, but I can do it for a while on my guitar. Just coming up with something good to sing out of thin air is pretty tough.
Also, the way she sang had to shred the hell out her voice. Getting to the end of a show with the allotted notes was probably all her vocal chords could handle.
@raven: Yes. Unless you’re talking some scat stuff or whatever. But that’s not very rock n roll.
raven
@Jewish Steel: Hence the Southern Comfort.
raven
Aw, poor baby even if he gets off:
“He has to live mostly in hiding, he has to protect himself from that periphery that still believe that he’s some racist murderer or acted in a bad way,” O’Mara said. “I think that he’s probably concerned about living in central Florida and never having a normal life, and that’s unfortunate. His life will never be the same.”
Ted & Hellen
@PaulW:
This is one of the zombie lies kept ambulatory by liar liars like you.
GZ received no such instruction.
If you can stop spreading falsehoods for a moment I have a question for you: Why would someone intent on murder call the police to witness their crime over the phone?
EconWatcher
I really don’t like televised court proceedings. I guess you can argue that it’s just an extension of the Constitution’s requirement for public trials, which is important for liberty (you don’t want secret Star Chamber trials). But when you have TV cameras in there, everyone has a temptation to think about their public image rather than their job. Judge Ito was Exhibit A.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Truly tragic, that there should be consequences for racially motivated, lethal vigilantism.
metricpenny
@rikyrah:
Thanks rikyrah for sharing that.
Can Ms. Fulton’s writings be found on the internet?
Jebediah
@BIBLE_DUDE1:
You are right – the trial shouldn’t be happening at all. A better outcome would have been Trayvon wrestling the gun away from Zimmerman, shooting him in the nuts, and leaving him there to bleed out.
Jebediah
@raven:
Who knew getting away with murder could suck so much? My sympathy for him is rather limited.
Amir Khalid
@Ted & Hellen:
I refer you to the 20 bullet points listed by former US attorney Robert Martinez in his Miami Herald opinion piece, which I linked to in my comment #132.
The Moar You Know
@Ted & Hellen: I’m glad you were there. Did you try to rape him in the ass while in the shower?
Ted & Hellen
@Jebediah:
And here, in a nutshell, we have the blind, rageful, wholly barbaric soul of the frothing vigilante on display for all to see.
You’re every bit as much an animal as you imagine GZ to be.
Amir Khalid
@raven:
World’s smallest violin, et cetera.
Amir Khalid
@metricpenny:
Sybrina Fulton is Trayvon Martin’s mother. To my knowledge, she’s never been in the public eye before and isn’t a prolific writer on the Internet.
Ted & Hellen
@Amir Khalid:
Your bullet points are lovely and emo, but have almost nothing to do with the case we’re discussing or the laws under which it falls to be decided.
I’ll say it again: GZ was never told to stay in his truck, to not pursue M, or any thing else of that nature. Words matter.
I don’t believe trials should be decided on mass feeeeeeeelings about general issues.
Ted & Hellen
@The Moar You Know:
Who? Zimmerman? Martin? One of the cops? The hot defense attorney with the goatee?
You’ll need to be more specific…
liberal
@Seanly:
Well, there was the time that, IIRC, a sports writer for the WaPo came out as a creationist.
liberal
@Seanly:
Knowledge of technology isn’t necessarily a protection against this form of stupid.
liberal
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Smalley was against the idea that one could easily create self-reproducing nanobots.
In particular, IIRC, he showed that Drexler had no understanding of how things operate at tiny, atom-sized scales.
The details of the debate are on-line; you can start with the Wikipedia page. Fascinating reading.
ETA—IIRC Smalley concluded that there is a nanobot tech around; it’s called “organic life”.
liberal
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah, well, you and I know that it’s not a “mistake” when you choose to run after someone armed with a gun and (pace thugs like T&H and jrg) questionable intent…but as Schiller said, “Against stupidity/The gods themselves/Contend in vain.”
Catsy
@Trollhattan: In all fairness, after commuting in this town for decades in every way possible (in a vehicle and not), I’ve started to gain an appreciation for exactly why there is so much anti-cyclist sentiment among drivers: far too many bicyclists ride like entitled dicks who don’t think the rules of the road apply to them.
Ignoring red lights/red turn arrows when they can see there’s no traffic is not uncommon, and almost every single day I see some cyclist zooming along beside cars that are stopped at a light and treating that gap beside them as a bike lane just so they can get in front. And then pulling back out into the proper lane when the light turns so that that line of cars has to get behind them. Not having the courtesy to pull over and letting others pass them when they’re blocking a long stack of traffic on a one-lane road by going ten miles under the speed limit during peak hours.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for sharing the road with everyone else; I’ve been on the other side of this. And anyone who endangers or hits a cyclist needs to have the book thrown at them. But respect cuts both ways–if they want to be treated like any other vehicle on the road, they need to follow the same laws and rules of courtesy as every other vehicle on the road. The fact that so many don’t goes a long way towards explaining the source of all that anti-cyclist sentiment you see cropping up among drivers, and the cycling community needs to do a much better job of discouraging that kind of assholish and frankly dangerous behavior.
johnny aquitard
Jeez, Obama’s got those FEMA re-education camps everywhere.
Seanly
@Ted & Hellen:
Words matter? Read the fuggin’ transcript:
If you’re going to split hairs, no, Zimmerman wasn’t ordered to not follow. But Martin was at a distance that he couldn’t tell that Martin had a can of ice tea in his hand. He says earlier that Martin was approaching but then talked about him running away. Why not go wait for the cops at the entrance?
The problem is that if Z didn’t have a gun & didn’t ultimately make contact with Martin, Martin would still be alive. Even if Z approached & said something like “Hey, neighborhood watch, everything alright?”, maybe a confrontation could’ve been avoided. Z was the aggressor in pursuing Martin which led to the teen’s death.
And yeah, I hope Bush/Cheney/Wall Str, etc. etc. get payback for their crimes though I doubt our system would ever put them on trial.
Gin & Tonic
@Origuy: But will there be attractive muscular women beating each other senseless? I think not.
Amir Khalid
@Ted & Hellen:
You keep saying that the police never actually told Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon Martin. Then what did the police dispatcher mean by saying, “We don’t need you to do that”, if he didn’t mean to say that the police did not want Zimmerman to follow Martin?
FlipYrWhig
@Ted & Hellen: he was not told to stay in his truck because he wasn’t in his truck when he was talking; then, beyond that, being told that he wasn’t needed to pursue anyone isn’t the same as being told explicitly _not_ to pursue anyone? That seems incredibly semantic. It seems much more logical that the plain sense of what he was told, politely but firmly, was that he didn’t need to involve himself any more than he already had done. But then he did. In truck vs not in truck, don’t need to do vs don’t do… This is pretty thin gruel.
different-church-lady
Pro troll is pro.
liberal
@Catsy:
I completely agree, but…as a now-mostly driver myself, I’m amazed at the number of dipshit drivers (not signaling, leaving lights off when wipers are on, etc).
My biggest two bete noirs these days: people not pulling all the way up (to stop lines or the car in front of them—some folks seem to think they need a car length of room), and people who inexplicably cross lanes while driving straight ahead.
Cassidy
@Gin & Tonic: Do you just not enjoy sports? Is that the problem?
FlipYrWhig
@Seanly: Not to mention that “we don’t need you to do that” is rather obvious de-escalation official-speak. No, the voice on the phone doesn’t say, “You stop right there, George Zimmerman, and don’t move a muscle!” But that phrasing about “need” is 100% public-servant training. Think “I’m going to need you to step behind the yellow line, sir.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Seanly: @Amir Khalid: They cling to the reed that the person speaking was a civilian employee, not an officer, and that was, for reasons of legal liability, not an order but a suggestion.
different-church-lady
Good opportunity for a repeat of this.
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
So exiting his truck to look for Martin doesn’t count as continuing to follow him?
That’s one thing you apologists seem to have trouble explaining — if Zimmerman was not continuing to follow Martin, why did he get out of his truck? Why not drive home?
lol
@Trollhattan:
I’m pro-biking in general, but cyclists (in DC at least) are just nuts. They erratically weave through traffic, run red lights, fly down sidewalks, etc. Makes me a lot less sympathetic to the ‘The road belongs to us too!” crowd.
Mnemosyne
I guess in Timmy’s world, Zimmerman is a lying liar who lies, since Timmy just assured us that Zimmerman was not following Martin despite what Zimmerman himself told the 911 operator.
Redshirt
@MomSense: District 2 is the “Real Maine”, of course. Michaud’s a Blue Dog, or close to it, for a reason. So yeah, Raye could easily win. I think I read that the Lumberjack from up North who LePage said needs no Vaseline might run. Maybe he could capitalize on that controversy, and his lumberjack background. REAL MAINE.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: He thinks because Zimmerman had already exited the truck at the time of the conversation, his further actions were not in defiance of the person from the PD. It’s a very niggling point that doesn’t affect what actually occurred, but a good way to score points for picayune accuracy in the greater purpose of being a royal pain in the ass. Kind of like how it’s technically true that your big brother isn’t touching you when you’re sitting in the car and he sticks his finger in your face for 11 minutes.
Seanly
@liberal:
Yeah, as a civil engineer I am embarrassed by the number of idiot engineers out there.
Many, many engineers are conservatives. While we are taught (tangentially) to think critically, there is also a strong reliance on doing things the way they’ve been done before. Many of the older engineers are rigid & inflexible personalities. In the civil engineering branch, anti-union as well as racist and mysognist viewpoints can be prevalent (the most vocal of these were typically the older engineers).
I would argue though that being trained as an engineer doesn’t predispose someone to be a creationist. I think it’s that the conservative nature of the engineering professions draw people to it who are more likley to be conservative.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: but because he was already following him and was not specifically told to stop in the magic words, his continuing to follow him was not against PD orders. Tada! Pfft.
Catsy
@liberal: Add to that the people who slow-roll their way to the next light when they can see it’s red, or who insist on going five or ten under the limit during peak hour and taking an entire city block to accelerate to a reasonable speed. They don’t seem to realize that if they just came up to speed in a timely way, by the time they get to the next light it has a good chance of turning green again. Instead they’re ensuring that not only they, but everyone behind them, will have to wait for that light instead of having a chance to get through it.
Worse, this has a systemic ripple effect on traffic. They are acting as a throttle that limits the number of people behind them who can get through the previous light in time. That creates a longer stack of cars waiting at that light, and the heavier the traffic or the closer to peak hour, the further that effect can spread. People like this are a big part of the reason why traffic gets so bad.
Ted & Hellen
@Amir Khalid:
Two things:
The dispatcher said “we don’t need you to do that.”
My complaint is that most of the public and folks here seem to believe the dispatcher spoke words very different than those in the form of something like “don’t get out of the truck” or ” I order you not to follow this person.” Neither is the case. I’m advocating for simple accuracy about what was said.
Please also notice Z’s reply to the dispatcher: “OK.” Not “fuck you, I’m doing what I want.”
I haven’t gotten an answer, so I will try again: Why does a murderous thug contemplating cold blooded killing, call the cops and stay on the phone?
Hal
@different-church-lady: what gave it away? The obvious bullshit talking points, or the use of the term lunch mob? At least ted & hellen isn’t an obvious troll name like bible dude.
Ted & Hellen
@FlipYrWhig:
It’s about ACCURACY. I have read in comments here and in news and opinion pieces elsewhere, that Z was “told not to get out of his truck.” That Z was told “not to follow Martin.”
Those words were not used, and it’s important that the words that WERE used be presented as such.
Also, note Z’s reply to “we don’t need you to do that:” OK
Ted & Hellen
@Amir Khalid:
In a nutshell: Your question is for the jury to decide. As they will and as they should, and as it is intended thru the court system to work.
Gin & Tonic
@Cassidy: I enjoy lots of sports, just not ones in which people beat each other up.
Ted & Hellen
@Mnemosyne:
You WOULD be dumbest one of all.
Zimmerman was ALREADY out of his truck, trying to find a street sign as the dispatcher had asked for the location, when the dispatcher said, “we don’t need you to do that,” to which he replied “OK,” at which point he says he turned back toward the truck.
He called the police in regard to Martin (so they could witness his planned murder of him, I presume). It makes sense that he would wait around for them to arrive.
You don’t know what you’re talking about, but you almost never do.
Amir Khalid
@Ted & Hellen:
No one is arguing that Zimmerman is a murderous thug as such; rather, that his actions in this case went over the line between proper neighbourhood watch practice and vigilantism, with a fatal result for which he should be held criminally responsible. In the column I cited in my comment #132, a former US attorney (a white Hispanic like Zimmerman, to go by his byline photo) argues that Zimmerman is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of manslaughter.
Ted & Hellen
@Mnemosyne:
See, this is where you rearrange comments to suit your fantasies, as per always. You are a dishonest hack.
He was following Martin until he got out of the truck to look for a street sign so he could provide the dispatcher with a location, as requested, which is when the “we don’t need you to do that” statement was made,” to which he replied, “OK,” and turned back toward the truck.
You see, I have actually listened to the testimony and paid attention to the time line. Unlike you, I have paid attention.
Ted & Hellen
@FlipYrWhig:
Do you believe FACTS and accuracy matter at all in a court of law and in news gathering? yes or no?
different-church-lady
“I guess that’s why the charge was second degree murder and not first,” I said to nobody in particular.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ted & Hellen: You are, of course, full of shit. To the best of my knowledge, no one posting here is on the Zimmerman jury. Given that, we are free to interpret the facts and come to conclusions as we choose. You are free to choose not to come to conclusions. Asking people to view themselves as jurors when they are not is absurd.
Ted & Hellen
@FlipYrWhig:
Not what I said. Christ, the stupidity.
Ted & Hellen
@FlipYrWhig:
I had previously thought you were one of the less willfully ignorant blowhards here. Glad to be updated.
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
Whereupon Martin tackled him from behind bushes that photographs show don’t actually exist. But Zimmerman said there were bushes, so that means that reality is lying.
Also, since Zimmerman says he was wearing his gun in a holster at the small of his back, how exactly did it get it free and shoot Martin, who was on top of him throwing punches?
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
Facts and accuracy are important. There were no bushes for Martin to hide behind. So who do you believe in this case, the FACTS or Zimmerman’s claims?
So far, you’re choosing Zimmerman’s claims over FACTS.
Ted & Hellen
@Amir Khalid:
Holy shit.
He gets called that and much worse here and elsewhere on a regular basis. Why would you waste your time typing such an obviously false grouping of words?
FlipYrWhig
@Ted & Hellen: and after saying “OK,” he involved himself anyway. That doesn’t help his case.
I think it’s pretty plain that the PD was saying, though in different words, “Thanks, sir, now sit tight, we’ll take it from here.” I also think, although this exceeds the evidence, that Zimmerman heard it in that way, then thought to himself, “This is what always happens, and he’ll get away because the cops don’t give a shit, and I’m done meekly obeying their orders, so I’m going to keep tracking him, because what’s the worst that can happen?” No, we have no evidence that he thought those things, but they would be consistent with other things he did say and do.
rea
@Mnemosyne: “Z did not continue following M and had lost sight of M just before the altercation.”
This of course is based on Z’s statment to the police, under which Martin jumped out of a bush and attacked Z–not very credible. If I were on the jury, I’d be reluctant to take Z’s word, considering that he chose not to testify and subject himself to cross-examination.
NickT
@Mnemosyne:
I see that T & H is fabricating facts as usual in pursuit of his racist vigilante fantasies.
Not exactly a surprise to anyone who knows TeddyTroll’s sordid nature.
FlipYrWhig
@Ted & Hellen: your comment a few entries up says almost literally that: he was already out of the truck, so he didn’t leave the truck after being warned not to. That’s what I said you’d say. You did.
tybee
eventually, T and H will fist each other deep enough to disappear up each other’s anus.
Ted & Hellen
@FlipYrWhig:
Not in evidence, if you’ve paid attention. He says, and there is nothing presented in court to contradict him, that he turned to go back to his truck. He replied to the dispatcher: “OK”
But that doesn’t fit your preferred narrative.
From the beginning, my objection here at BJ has been to the know nothing hysterical vigilantism thru which so many just KNOW Zimmerman murdered Martin and that’s all there is to it, evidence and law be damned.
For instance, I favor strict gun control laws that would have made it illegal for Z to be carrying the weapon he had on him that night. But those are not the laws under which this incident took place and under which he has been accused and tried. Not hard to understand.
Amir Khalid
@tybee:
If only he/they would.
Ted & Hellen
@rea:
Z did not say Martin “jumped out of a bush.”
You are spreading false information. Is it so hard to be accurate? Or at least try to?
Ted & Hellen
@NickT:
List and evidence contrary to, please?
You don’t know what you’re talking about, but like Nem, you rarely do.
NickT
@Ted & Hellen:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting
Hal
@rea: he’s not required to testify and as a juror you cannot hold that against a defendant. I would simply call bullshit on him getting out of his car at all. You’re how far from you’re house in a neighborhood you’ve lived in for years. Why did he even need to get out of the car? I couldn’t see the street signs is a bs answer.
different-church-lady
@Ted & Hellen: How’s that being angry at the entire world thing working out for you?
NickT
@Ted & Hellen:
I’ve just exposed one of your more obvious lies. Others have demolished more of your falsehoods throughout the thread. You’ve got no credibility on any topic here, TeddyTroll.
Ted & Hellen
@FlipYrWhig:
I also said that the words “don’t leave your truck” were never uttered, and that he did not “defy” the dispatcher (who has no authority over civilians anyway) because he replied “OK” and turned back toward his truck.
Mnemosyne
@NickT:
Oooh, those pesky FACTS rear their ugly heads.
But if Zimmerman’s claims and the FACTS don’t match, then obviously we have to believe Zimmerman’s claims. After all, it’s not like he has any reason to lie or exaggerate, amirite?
Ted & Hellen
@NickT:
Apologies. My bad. I stand corrected.
FlipYrWhig
@Ted & Hellen: It doesn’t make sense that Martin would ambush him at that point, with or without bushes to hide in. Sure, he claims that, but it’s not believable. I think Zimmerman is over-egging the pudding with every possible detail that would support straightforward self-defense, rather than a wannabe playing cop who got into a fight he couldn’t win without a gun. And I don’t think he would have been convicted even if he had told the story that IMHO probably matches what really happened. I’d use the word “overkill,” but, well, you know.
NickT
@Mnemosyne:
I guess T & H is playing by his usual creepy ass-cracker rules. Not exactly surprising from the despicable creature.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ted & Hellen: He didn’t testify, so why are you bringing in what he said he did as though it establishes anything? It should mot be front of the jury. Or are you allowing outside facts to come in to the judgment you are making?
metricpenny
@Amir Khalid:
Thanks for responding. I know who Sabrina Fulton is; that she has been in the public eye for at least a year; and, could be a prolific writer. I don’t know her personally, so don’t know if the latter is true or not.
The reason I asked rikyrah the question is that she framed her comment as if it were from a journal/diary Trayvon’s mother was keeping on the trial. I tried google and bing and didn’t find anything.
FlipYrWhig
@Ted & Hellen: Both of which I say in that post you quoted to suggest that I misrepresented you. I don’t see how I did. Find something else to argue about than those details of your own views, because, you know, I got them right.
Ted & Hellen
@different-church-lady:
I have no idea, since that’s not the case.
You, however are probably angry that you have zero life away from this blog; evidence for which being the fact that you comment repetitively on almost every FP page post, over and over and over; and obviously rely on your standing here for much if not most of your self identity and sense of worth.
Despite claims to the contrary, I skip many threads. Unlike you.
Ted & Hellen
@NickT:
Could you list those out for me? Thanks.
Ted & Hellen
@FlipYrWhig:
Why is it not believable?
different-church-lady
@Ted & Hellen: Gosh, that didn’t sound angry at all.
Cassidy
@Gin & Tonic: Well I’m sorry it doesn’t meet your personal approval, but it is still a sport and I don’t think your smugness is warranted. These women have worked hard for recognition and respect from their male counterparts and legitimacy from the fans. Invicta FCC is the only organization that is dedicated WMMA and has grown over 6 cards to a PPV show. So if you do t like it, don’t fucking watch, but not going to feel bad for trying to get others to purchase the card so that some very worthy athletes can start making a living.
Ted & Hellen
@Omnes Omnibus:
The sequence of events as claimed by Zimmerman was included in a presentation by the defense during closing arguments. You can say that’s not evidence, but it’s in front of the jury and expert testimony concluded that it is consistent with forensic and other evidence.
Ted & Hellen
@different-church-lady:
You’re projecting, ever-present one.
Any anger you infer is entirely your own.
different-church-lady
@Ted & Hellen: Now you’re angry and defensive? Pro troll is rattled.
LAC
@Ted & Hellen: NickT, per this request. Will you need coffee, takeout food, a fast typist, and time off for work? This will take some time, I imagine.
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
Uh, evidence presented in court isn’t automatic proof that something is true. By that standard, I guess OJ really was completely innocent, because his lawyers presented evidence! In court!
Or, to go the other way, prosecutors presented evidence that Rolondo Cruz was guilty of raping and murdering a little girl, but he wasn’t the actual killer, as DNA later proved. But, you know, evidence!
The whole point of having a trial is that both sides present their evidence and the judge and/or jury decide whose evidence is true and whose experts are correct. The mere fact of presenting someone as an expert doesn’t automatically make their testimony true.
NickT
@Ted & Hellen:
I see you haven’t bothered to read the thread. Do your own work for a change, you lazy piece of troll-dung.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ted & Hellen: Opening and closing arguments are not evidence. You said that Zimmerman says he went back to the truck. A statement from Z pretty much cannot be evidence since he did not testify. Now, it appears that the defense team is arguing that the evidence tends to show that he went back ton the truck, but that is argument and people will need the make calls about witness credibility, weight of evidence, etc. You are criticizing people for coming to conclusions, yet you are putting yourself in the shoes of a juror and making a determination. The fact that you are making a pro-Z call doesn’t change that.
NickT
@LAC:
Hell no. I’ve told the lazy little worm to do his own work for a change. I’ll take you up on the coffee though while we watch him moving his lips and pushing a thick, hairy finger down the thread very, very, very slowly.
NickT
If anyone is interested, apparently the jury have been deliberating for over two hours and have recently asked the judge for a list of the evidence exhibits by number and description.
LAC
@NickT: LOL!! Well, since he will be taking a break to use that finger to pick his nose or scratch his ass, coffee will be better choice. One or two sugars?
(thanks for the update, btw)
NickT
@LAC:
One sugar, if you would be so kind. TeddyTroll’s monobrow is looking distinctly furrowed as he contemplates those exhausting five letter words.
Maude
@johnny aquitard:
Your internets are in the mail.
catclub
@Comrade Jake: A mathematician is a device for converting caffeine into theorems.
(also works for amphetamines, according to Erdos, or someone like him).
p
how does one “rehabilitate” an alligator/crocodile? psychoanalysis? drugs? electroshock? a reconciliation counsel? restitution?
Amir Khalid
@p:
And what does one rehabilitate a crocodile from?
Redshirt
@Amir Khalid: Crocodile Vegetarians. PC run amok.
NickT
@Amir Khalid:
Ingesting Republicans
JR in WV
@Ted & Hellen:
Dumass! Anything said by the lawyers, whether opening statement, closing arguements, phrasing of questions, is specifically NOT evidence.
It is explanation of what the lawyer wants you to think about the real evidence, which is sworn testimony, pictures, videos, medical reports, letters, etc.
The judge will tell the jurors that statements by the lawyers are not evidence before the trial, and probably in the instructions already provided to the jurors.
N