Ah, the very serious National Review:
On Friday, the District of Columbia Superior Court ruled that climatologist and Penn State professor Michael Mann can proceed in his lawsuits against the National Review and the Competitive Enterprise Institute. Dr. Mann accuses the two conservative entities of defamation for comparing him to convicted rapist Jerry Sandusky last July.
It wasn’t just an idle comparison NR made, they had side-by-side “mug shots”. EDIT: It was in this Mark Steyn piece.
El Caganer
I was amused reading this story over the weekend, particularly NR/CEI’s defense that they really didn’t mean fraud fraud, just sorta-fraud. And anyway, they were jes’ funnin’. I hope Mann takes them to the cleaners so bad that NR will need to have a year-round fundraising cruise.
MattF
One can only wonder what NR’s defense will be. ‘Irremediable stupidity.’
Violet
Wow. I didn’t know about this story. What in the world were they thinking?
kerFuFFler
I am just glad that the whole climategate situation will get some public attention—–too many people STILL mistakenly believe that the scientists were “caught” doing dishonest things with the data. Even though several thorough reviews have vindicated the scientists, the word has not really managed to get out. Perhaps the hoopla of a lawsuit will draw attention to the situation and give the conservative deniers a very public black eye.
Chris
@kerFuFFler:
Yet another exhibit of the “liberal media” not actually being that.
Comrade Mary
You should read NRO’s appeal for donations. (Link goes to same blog as linked in the post, not NRO. You can follow their links to NRO if you really want)
Fuck you, NRO. Fuck you.
dp
If there is any justice in the world (a big if), he will clean them out and shut them down.
I hope he sued the individual writers and editors too, so that he can hound them into bankruptcy.
piratedan
nice to see someone “standing their ground” and taking these fuckers on. They get away with all sorts of heinous crap and supposedly have editors in place that are supposed to know better but have been living on this artificial high of “we’re conservatives, no one screws with us” that the hubris is apparently bringing them down. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of morans.
gnomedad
@kerFuFFler:
The trouble with stressing the vindication of these scientists is that it furthers the idea that the validity of AGW (or any scientific results) depends on all scientists everywhere being impartial saints. The integrity of science lies in peer review, reproducibility, and multiple lines of evidence. If we don’t catch people fudging data occasionally we probably aren’t looking hard enough.
Also, I assume water-cooler smack-talk is as common among scientists as any other profession. God help anyone if someone gunning for them gets hold of their day-to-day emails.
Botsplainer
Mark Strung is a smug, closetcase candyass.
Comrade Mary
Welp, so much for Steyn’s mottled rep as a “sane” conservative. Va te faire foutre, Mark.
Another Halocene Human
Speaking of wingnuts, Bryan Fischer and WND jumped on this highly speculative Post story about West Indians shipping food to their families back home:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/it_on_y22owkLpsldSAjDVC9isjM
How many West Indians are really on welfare? I suspect less than the number of Hasidim.
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/03/report-hasidim-geti-disproportionately-high-number-of-low-income-housing-vouchers-789.html
(Full disclosure: I’ve had a mad-on for this community after the NY Beit Din allowed angry ex-husbands to abusively deny a Get (religious divorce) and in one case pretty much drove a woman out of the community. The bright side is that the New York courts are catching on to this ugly little practice. Read more about it if you’d like to know what Sharia law in the US would look like. Shorter: men bribe sexist clerics and women get the shaft. Also, too, Chabad is a creepy cult. I know, I know, I was raised Catholic and the RCC is a creepy cult as well. But at least the RCC is open about its worship of a dead Jew and the fact that they think said religious leader is still alive and going to return. Many Chabadniks will lie to your face about what they believe and think it’s justified. They also brainwash kids who make aaliyah and convince them to cut off contact with their families. Not cool.)
(Other full disclosure: every West Indian I’ve ever known worked far harder than any American. I think that’s why they’re so resented, honestly. They’re also traditionalists compared to Americans and pretty loud and proud about that, and that can cause a lot of friction. But mostly I see anger that they work like dogs for less pay and don’t complain–Mexicans (Hondurans) redux.)
Punchy
Nobody oughta fuck with the guy who brought us Miami Vice.
Chris
@Comrade Mary:
LOL. What, their big donors can’t afford to take a few bucks out of the money they allocate to financing privatization, union-busting, pension-busting and all that shit? Cry me a river, fuckers.
Jerzy Russian
@El Caganer:
They can take cruises over the North Pole when there is no ice there in the summer.
gnomedad
@Comrade Mary:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Aha. Ha.
No, seriously?
Chris
@gnomedad:
Which is kind of the conservative mindset in a nutshell – we know things are true because Good Authority Figures told us so.
Belafon
@gnomedad: See race, gender, etc. Until they are discredited, the Right will always have this as a fallback.
The Dangerman
Also from the Department of Making Shit Up…
…I was watching FOX this morning and their expert was saying that if the MSM would just tell the truth, Obamacare would get repealed.
I’ll be long gone and they’ll still be trying to repeal Obamacare (see Medicare).
IanY77
@Comrade Mary:
Given that they repeatedly state how they’re not a for-profit organization (read: propaganda rag), you’d think they’d be a little more judicious in their language. They dared Mann to sue them.
Belafon
@Another Halocene Human: Someone ought to remind Fischer of the story of the poor woman who gave the last of her savings to the disciples vs the wealthy couple that lied.
Shinobi (@shinobi42)
So absurd, I recreated the hockey stick graph from raw data in a 300 level stats class. I cannot even comprehend what they are accusing this guy of. I hope he takes all their money and uses it to lobby for stricter environmental legislation.
kindness
Could this end up breaking the National Review much like the suits against the white supremists in Idaho did?
Won’t matter. Wingnut Welfare will go on.
feebog
@ Comrade Mary:
Baahaahaaa! Their pitiful little rag can’t even break even. What a bunch of losers.
Mnemosyne
I know that 90 percent of the time a newspaper or magazine can say anything they want about a public figure and be covered by the First Amendment, but I don’t think NR is going to be able to claim that it was satire or that they didn’t intend their readers to infer that Mann is a pedophile.
Ted & Hellen
defamation for comparing him to convicted rapist Jerry Sandusky last July.
Rilly?
No biggie: Common practice among the intellectual giants here at BJ.
PurpleGirl
@kerFuFFler: Won’t happen. You want to rely on facts; conservatives go with belief and gut feelings and disregard facts.
gnomedad
@Chris:
And scientists are Bad Authority Figures — not different in kind; just on the Evil Side.
Ruckus
@feebog:
Besides the fact that they think being a non-profit means they don’t make any money. Dumb shits.
Ted & Hellen
Except that according the linked article, he is suing NR for something else entirely:
Is the Sandusky thing even mentioned in the lawsuit?
Chyron HR
Well, looks like whoever had “Jerry Sandusky is HAWT” in the “What will T&H be obsessed with this week” pool really hit it big. Most everybody played it safe and bet on another week of “Trayvon had it coming because of drugs and also the text messages.”
Shakezula
Dear me, who could expect NR & CEI to pay attention to those piffling libel laws?
If the English language could sue these assholes would be in even more trouble.
Comrade Mary
@gnomedad: I did call it a “mottled” rep. The most casual search will find grudging praise from all kinds of left of centre types whenever Steyn pointed out some obvious RW idiocy.
Another Halocene Human
This is what happens when you let religious community leaders take over secular functions-thank goodness this young lady finally went to the police in the end:
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/07/sex-abuse-victim-shunned-by-chabad-hasidim-as-abuser-is-praised-678.html#more
Ruckus
@gnomedad:
I was told yesterday that Al Gore would have made millions on the sale of carbon offsets and that is why he does what he does, not that global warming is real. Also that CO2 from cars doesn’t rise in the atmosphere while CO2 from other sources does. I found it fascinating that nature can distinguish and reject the source of a chemical and do separate things with it. I also find it fascinating that having smog controls on cars has made LA visible, which it mostly wasn’t in the 60s-70s. But there’s no such thing as man made global warming. Or so I’ve been told.
I think I’ll believe otherwise, given the evidence and the science.
Another Halocene Human
@Belafon: But those “red letter” parts of the Buy-Bull are for THAT Dispensation, which was “When The Messiah Was Alive”. For OUR Dispensation, you must read Paul and Revelations.
I think he particularly likes the part where G_d strikes dead on the spot a wealthy couple who lied about their profits on a business deal when they were paying tithes to Peter.
Giving food to relatives? Bah! An insult to G_d–didn’t He say He would provide?
kerFuFFler
@gnomedad:
While I agree that whole fields or research should not be disregarded when the occasional bad actor is discovered, I still yearn for the record to be set straight here. The hackers materially misrepresented what they found, and took short passages out of context to create the appearance of academic fraud. When it was looked into, all the accusations were found baseless. The whole thing was as dishonest as (I can’t remember his name…?…) when that creepy-assed conservative visited several Planned Parenthood clinics under various false pretexts. I think a lawsuit is just the thing to shine some light back this largely forgotten injustice.
The Red Pen
BTW, there are two possible outcomes of this suit:
1) The CONSTITUTION!!!!!! prevails and Mark Steyn’s right to be brilliant in the press is upheld,
2) or Eric Holder uses NSA wiretap information to blackmail the judges and jurors and the media and everyone associated with Comic Con (no time to explain) and the Fascist/Communist/Socialist/Muslim Michael Mann prevails and we have to have another civil war.
A third possibility is that Obama has Mann killed because he knows too much, but that depends on the NWO Illuminati’s deliberations.
The Red Pen
@Another Halocene Human:
Ah, Dispensationalism. Keeping Jesus from ruining Christianity since the mid-19th century.
Jay in Oregon
@Chris:
Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?
kerFuFFler
@kerFuFFler: ….James O’Keefe…I remembered his name right after the clock for editing ran out. What a dishonest shit. And what the hackers did with the emails of the scientists was just like something out of his playbook.
Snarki, child of Loki
If there is any justice Mann will take NR to the cleaners financially…
…and in addition, the judge will sentence Steyn to be marooned on a remote tiny little island, two inches above sea level.
Seanly
@Ted & Hellen:
We’re not mainstream journalists publishing defamatory or libel for profit. I believe almost everything said here is covered by 1st Amendment. Journalists are supposed to have standards. Plus comments on some backwater blog are not widespread enough to cause serious defamation.
Amir Khalid
I’m not among the lawyers who comment here, but it seems to me that Professor Mann has The National Review dead to rights.
@Mnemosyne:
I think TNR wanted to convey to its readers that the professional dishonesty it and CEI accused Mann of makes him as bad as Sandusky the convicted pedophile, not so much that Mann himself is a pedo.
@Ted & Hellen:
Pedophilia is a bad thing. Comparing a scientist’s alleged professional misconduct to it is defamatory, especially if you can’t back up the allegation. You can bet your last ineptly executed portrait that Professor Mann has included the Sandusky comparison in the particulars of his lawsuit.
Another Halocene Human
I know I need to drop this topic but wow:
One third of Israeli women – 50% of haredi Israeli women – in the process of getting divorced is subject to threats and extortion from her husband, a new survey found. The extortion is based on withholding a woman’s get (religious bill of divorce), which can only be granted by her husband. If their husband refuses to do so, his wife is forbidden to marry or to have sexual relations with another man, and any children born to her by another man are branded mamzerim (bastards) under halakha (Orthodox Jewish law).
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/07/half-of-all-haredi-women-are-extorted-in-divorce-process-survey-finds-345.html
Happens in the US too.
Another Halocene Human
@The Red Pen: They needed a workaround when they got rid of the RCC and its doctrine of “Tradition”.
Villago Delenda Est
Good.
I hope his suits succeed, and drive these two vile entities into utter penury.
Villago Delenda Est
@Snarki, child of Loki:
….surrounded by sharks with frickin’ laser beams on their heads…
kindness
@Ted & Hellen:
You lookin’ in a mirror dude?
gene108
@feebog:
All right-wing print media are not profitable. They are vanity projects of billionaires with axes to grind and propaganda to publish.
I’m surprised the NRO isn’t getting bailed out by whatever billionaire sugar-daddy writes their paychecks.
Jay C
@kerFuFFler:
Probably not: by the time the right-wing media have finished spinning Mann’s case, they will have made said “deniers” into hapless martyrs to (radical extremist progress-hating America-hating) environmentalist political-correctness: with their “rights of free speech” being trampled on as well. Sad, but even I (who think AGW-deniers are either malicious or deluded cranks) could craft an effective PR campaign to spin the NR suit into a publicity/fundraising opportunity.
@Jerzy Russian:
FTFY
Another Halocene Human
I’ve always admired rabbinical Judaism actually for the fact that halakha makes waaaaaay more fucken sense than Thomas Aquinas and all the Papal Bulls ever written. Even the Jesuits can’t polish those turds and make them shine.
If you start to get into you’ll realize that “Jesus'” teachings are part of that same halakhic tradition, so no wonder the crazy fundies had to stick a sock in him…. You know he said shit like “the Law was made for Man, not Man for the Law” and “Just cuz I said Judgment Day could be any day now doesn’t mean you shouldn’t pay your fucking taxes, dumbshits.”
(If you really want to understand where Xtianity comes from, well, aside from reading some Gnostic writings, Gnosticism being the ‘real’ xtianity which was suppressed–with violence–by the orthodox (“right teaching”) heretics, you need to first understand that the name Jesus, that is Joshua, is a pseudonym with strong political undertones. A nom de guerre, if you will. In Biblical legend Joshua defeats the Philistines with the power of the Lord–so too will the New Joshua defeat the hated
GreeksRomans and end the insult of gentile rule.)Shakezula
@Mnemosyne: I think a big issue will be whether he was a public figure, at the time the article was written.
Jockey Full of Malbec
@gene108:
These prefer to move their money anonymously. (THAT was the real intent of Citizen’s United, the anonymity)
If there’s a way to funnel anonymous cash into the NRO legal fund through a 503(c), it’ll happen. Otherwise the NRO will just have to rely on the kindness of strangers.
The Red Pen
@Another Halocene Human:
1. Tradition can be a stabilizing influence that prevents radical craziness if applied judiciously.
2. The RCC never let tradition or Jesus get in the way of doing the wrong thing in pursuit of money, or power.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@gnomedad: After three years of working in digital forensics all I can say to anyone is that you’d better start thinking of your email – and I do mean ALL your email, as well as any piece of data on any digital device you have, as publicly published.
Eric U.
on the Sandusky case, there was a recent story that the university has spent $47 million on consultants and lawyers. So along with the criminality, the $14M and the $60M penalties, football is a really great addition to the institution. And we have only gotten raises 4 out of the last 5 years. If Beaver stadium wasn’t the world’s largest metal bleacher, I would be inclined to burn it down.
Ted & Hellen
@Amir Khalid:
Lots of people with bad taste pay good money for my inept crayon drawings. The bitter jealousy you feel toward my success, as a result of my political opinions not aligning with your own, is your problem.
As for the second portion of your typing above, you have no idea, do you? I’d guess it is NOT included because right in the sentence in which he is linked to Sandusky the pedo charge is specifically exempted. But that’s obviously irrelevant because you feel otherwise, eye roll.
Just One More Canuck
@MattF: A work colleague once complained about getting a ticket for an illegal turn, saying that he didn’t see the sign. Essentially, his arguement to the judge was going to be, “Your Honour, Ah’s Stoopid”
It didn’t work
Amir Khalid
@Ted & Hellen:
Yet another willful reading comprehension failure by you.
The Red Pen
@Another Halocene Human: This.
RSA
@Eric U.:
Loooxury. At my public university, we’ve had one raise (1.2%, if I remember correctly) in the past five years.
Roger Moore
@Shakezula:
I’m not sure that these assholes could squeeze through the public figure loophole, even if they can establish him as a public figure. Equating him to a child molester is way beyond the pale, especially because, unlike Jerry Sandusky, he’s been exonerated by public investigations of his behavior.
Suffern ACE
@Another Halocene Human: Jeebus. So the young bucks with their t-bone steaks get yelled at for being selfish and greedy, but the young bucks slowly filling their barrels with rice and beans get yelled at for trying to be generous. How shocking. Immigrants, even very poor immigrants, work to support people outside the country!
pagodat
Almost makes me want to get jury duty in hopes of hearing one of these. (I live in DC.)
Roger Moore
@gene108:
Why would they get bailed out? Defending them in the lawsuit only makes sense if substantially improves their chances of winning, which it probably doesn’t. The smarter approach is not to give them money until after the suit is over. If they win, you fund them to keep them going. If they lose, they have essentially zero assets, so Mann gets vindication and no financial reward. National Review declares bankruptcy, you buy up the “business” side of the operation for next to nothing- it’s a money loser, so it has little commercial value- and start publishing again under new leadership.
Tone in DC
@Shakezula:
LULz.
I figure Mann will actually win his suit(s). Thing is, like all gas-hole wingers, the NR and other assorted non-reality based idjits will just appeal and stall until roughly 2099, unless the final judge and jury actually makes them pay up.
burnspbesq
@Comrade Mary:
Steyn also got, for a little while at least, a sort of limited pass due to his ridiculous persecution at the hands of provincial human-rights busybodies, but I think that get-out-of-jail-free card has now expired,
Woodrowfan
T&H really needs to change his name to “Dunning & Kruger”
J R in WV
Sandusky’s own son is changing his name to avoid being associated with the criminal records the elder Sandusky established.
So comparing a brilliant (or even a dim but correct) scientist to the former coach is just way over the acceptable argument line.
Any so-called journalist that isn’t on top of libel requirements deserves the judgements they may be handed.
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid:
It’s what special Timmeh DOES.
burnspbesq
@Roger Moore:
Even if he’s a public figure, he wins if he can show that the defendants acted with reckless disregard for the truth. A tough, but not insurmountable, standard.
Villago Delenda Est
@Suffern ACE:
Please. These people are BROWNS. They are inherently inferior, inherently lazy.
gnomedad
@kerFuFFler:
I completely agree.
gnomedad
@Comrade Mary:
Sorry, a wingnut relation adores Steyn, so I get all the “good stuff”.
Joey Maloney
@Shakezula: I don’t think that’s correct. This court found substantial evidence of actual malice which is the very high bar a libel claim against a public figure has to clear. That is, this court found that even as a public figure, Professor Mann appears to have a case.
Lurking Canadian
@Roger Moore: As much as I’d like to see Mann win this, I’d be surprised if Steyn wasn’t smart enough to insert some weasel language like “Assumig these emails mean what they appear to mean” or even “It sure looks to me like…”. That’ll probably be enough to make a defense out of “Your honor, I never said he was a plagiarist as bad as a pedophile. What I said was IF he’s a plagiarist, that’s as bad as being a pedophile”
The second statement is also bullshit, but is probably not libelous.
Shakezula
@Roger Moore: I don’t know enough about him to try to guess. But so far as I can tell he was minding his own damn business when these assholes latched on to him.
My money is on a settlement for an undisclosed amount, maybe with some sort of public apology/retraction. The undisclosed amount part will also keep the NR safe from donors who wonder what happened to the money. “Sorry, can’t say but the evil liberul scientist climate fibber took it all!”
Shakezula
@Joey Maloney: Sorry, do you mean the court addressed the issue of whether he is a public figure?
prometheus shrugged
@burnspbesq: Mann gives frequent enough public lectures on climate change, and his “Real Climate” blog is popular enough, that he would certainly qualify as a public figure in any sense of the term.
Ted & Hellen
@Villago Delenda Est:
ooooh…so mean and fierce.
Where are your fearsome “tumbrels!!!” today?
Again, I will not have sex with you so just stop obsessing…
CONGRATULATIONS!
What’s a raise?
Joey Maloney
@Shakezula: Not exactly. My understanding of the writeup I read is that the court found that NR’s conduct appeared to surpass even the very high level that a public figure needs to show. The court denied NR’s motion to dismiss on that basis.
Again, keep in mind the sorry state of legal journalism in this country, plus I, anal.
The Red Pen
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
It’s something that happens to C-level executives after a hefty layoff of riffraff.
MattR
@Ted & Hellen: First line of the lawsuit
Xenos
@Another Halocene Human: I thought the proper name was Yeshua, not Yoshua/Joshua, or whatever. Is that one of those made up bits of history that conveniently make Jesus seem so very not-really-that-Jewish-after-all?
The Red Pen
@Xenos:
Those are all various transliterations of the same Hebrew name, יְהוֹשֻׁעַ Yĕhôshúa‘. This means “Yaweh is salvation” so the if the Messiah wasn’t named that, He would be given that name like a title. Of course, a lot of Jewish mothers (mostly with the ubiquitous name Myrium/Mary) would give their son this name in hopes he’d be the One.
That’s kind of the joke about the “Jesus’ ossuary” that was touted a few years ago. Thousands of Jewish families at the time had a father named Joseph, a mother named Mary and a son named Joshua.
In Greek, Yeshua/Joshua became Iasus which became Jesus.
It’s much like the variations Moshe/Moishe/Moses.
Ted & Hellen
@MattR:
Wow, an actual relevant reply.
Thank you very much for the information. I appreciate it.
However, it’s my guess the Sandusky portion of the suit won’t go anywhere. The comparison was not in earnest, and they qualified it in writing…but including it can’t hurt either.
gbear
@J R in WV:
gbear
blockquote fail. FYWP.
The Red Pen
@gbear:
I just had an image of Matt Sandusky standing outside a courtroom saying, “I have finally separated myself from the monstrous acts of my adoptive father. I can now go forward proudly with the name Matthew Hitler.”
drkrick
@Xenos: It’s a matter of different transliterations, futher confused because sometimes it’s directly out of Aramaic and sometimes out of Aramaic with a pit stop in Greek. I’d be interested in what the support is for the idea it’s an alias, though.
gbear
@The Red Pen: Matthew Manson has a nice ring to it too. and less taint.
Jebediah
@Jay in Oregon:
I think you mis-spelled “manure.”
gbear
@gbear: Damned WP, can’t edit. I meant that the name Manson had lest taint than the name Sandusky.
Amir Khalid
@Ted & Hellen:
From your comment #33:
As is evident from what MattR quoted, and contrary to what you claimed, the comparison to Sandusky is very much a part of the defamation Mann is suing TNR and CEI over. And there is no “not in earnest”/”just kidding” defence against a claim like Mann’s: the words in question are either defamatory or not.
stratplayer
@Ted & Hellen: The Sandusky comparison provides compelling evidence of actual malice, which Mann may need to get around the public figure exception.
Ted & Hellen
@stratplayer:
Hey, if bringing the Sandusky thing into it can help him hammer NR, then I’m all for it.
Redshirt
@The Red Pen: Sandusky is a fairly common last name. There’s a Gerry Sandusky who does the radio play by play for the Baltimore Ravens. Poor guy.
The Red Pen
@Redshirt:
Seriously.
Michael Bolton: Yeah, well, at least your name isn’t Michael Bolton.
Samir: You know, there’s nothing wrong with that name.
Michael Bolton: There *was* nothing wrong with it… until I was about twelve years old and that no-talent ass clown became famous and started winning Grammys.
Samir: Hmm… well, why don’t you just go by Mike instead of Michael?
Michael Bolton: No way! Why should I change? He’s the one who sucks.
A Humble Lurker
@Ted & Hellen:
Sure you are.
Ted & Hellen
@A Humble Lurker:
lol
Tehanu
@Comrade Mary:
Sane? I thought his moniker was “The Human Steyn”.