Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Come on, man.

White supremacy is terrorism.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Military / Chelsea Manning / Manning Verdict Today–Acquitted of Aiding the Enemy, Guilty of all other charges.

Manning Verdict Today–Acquitted of Aiding the Enemy, Guilty of all other charges.

by | 168 Comments

This post is in: ,

The Judge, COL Denise Lind announced to the parties that she would have the verdict today.  It should be coming in around 2:00 PM Eastern time, but possibly sooner.  Since PFC Manning has already plead guilty to several charges and specifications as lesser included offenses to the original charges and specifications, there will be a sentencing phase, which will occur immediately after the verdict is passed and the findings phase is concluded.

The sentencing phase will be essentially, another trial.  The Trial Counsel will present a case for a certain maximal punishment, which will include the possibility of life without parole if the Aiding the Enemy spec is included.  The Defense will present a case to minimize that potential punishment as much as possible.  This will likely include a feature not found in civilian trials, the Unsworn Statement, in which the Accused will be allowed to address the Court, with assistance of Counsel and make a statement for the record that, because it is unsworn, is not subject to cross-examination or to penalty of perjury.  The Judge will then retire to determine the sentence.  Just for the charges to which he has plead guilty, PFC Manning faces a maximum of twenty years in confinement, Dishonorable Discharge, reduction to E-1, and total forfeiture of all pay and allowances.  He will get sentence credit for each day he has spent in pre-trial confinement, as well as an additional 110 days sentencing credit for the unnecessarily harsh conditions in which he was kept for part of his time in the Quantico Brig.

In the event that his sentence exceeds one year or includes a punitive discharge, review by the Army Court of Criminal Appeals of the findings and the sentence is automatic under Article 66, UCMJ.  This is another right that Civilians do not have, in addition to the rights of the Accused to petition the Convening Authority for clemency, under which the CA can also review findings and sentence.  In both cases, the ACCA or the CA may, at their sole unreviewable discretion, set aside the findings or the sentence in whole or in part.  In neither case can the sentence be increased beyond what the trial Judge issues.  Additionally, the Army Clemency Review Board may reduce the sentence as they see fit, and this is also a nonreviewable decision.  Assuming that PFC Manning appeals to the Court of Appeal for the Armed Forces, that court may also review the record and make findings with respect to findings and sentence of the Court-Martial, and may reduce or obviate the sentence as they see fit.  If CAAF reviews, then that opens the door to SCOTUS review.  If CAAF does not review the case, then SCOTUS does not have appellate jurisdiction, and SCOTUS has never reviewed the law (Art. 67-a, UCMJ) that limits their jurisdiction here.  Every single challenge to the constitutionality of Art. 67-a has been refused hearing by SCOTUS.  The information contained in this paragraph however, refers to events which are two to five years away from today.

Also too, Open Thread

 

UPDATE:  MANNING NOT GUILTY OF AIDING THE ENEMY.  Tweeted by @kgosztola, @NathanLFuller

NBCNews.com reports that the Judge found him “guilty of two other charges.”  update–Guilty of all other charges including theft of government property, and espionage.  That last one is included in military law under a UCMJ provision that makes violating federal criminal statues a criminal act under the UCMJ.  It could carry a possible life sentence.  The Sentencing phase will begin immediately–like, after a short recess.  This is not like civilian criminal court where there’s a break of several days to weeks.

UPDATE: Sentencing phase of the Court-Martial will begin tomorrow morning at 0930hrs, Eastern.  PFC Manning faces a maximum sentence of 136 years in confinement, reduction to E-1, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and dishonorable discharge from the Army.

Reader Interactions

168Comments

  4. 4.

    The Red Pen

    2LT Calley got three and a half years of house arrest for premeditated murder, so I’m sure they’ll go easy on Manning. /sarcasm

    Also, too, for some reason — perhaps stories of Steve the Cat — I woke up with this lyric stuck in my head. (Sung to the chorus of the B-52’s “Love Shack”)

    The Love Cat is a little old cat that
    We can pet together
    Love Cat, baby
    Love Cat, baby, Love Cat
    Love Cat, baby, Love Cat
    Love Cat, baby, Love Cat
    [repeat ad nauseum]

    Is it stuck in your head now? You’re welcome.

  5. 5.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Feel bad for the kid, but dammit, he was told what the consequences were going to be and he did it anyway.

  6. 6.

    Botsplainer

    I hate people. Am sitting in an “away” court to do a telephonicvisitation hearing for a guy who got less interested in his child when somebody noticed that he quit paying child support.

    Getting him on the phone is like calling a second friend for moving assistance.

  8. 8.

    Soonergrunt

    @The Red Pen: 2LT Calley’s original sentence was Life w/o Parole at hard labor. It was reduced by many different levels of clemency.
    Personally, I don’t think it should have been.

  9. 9.

    The Red Pen

    @Soonergrunt:

    2LT Calley’s original sentence was Life w/o Parole at hard labor. It was reduced by many different levels of clemency.

    Let’s not gloss over the fact that Richard Nixon personally intervened to influence that leniency. Somehow, I don’t expect that level of support from Obama.

  14. 14.

    gussie

    Clemency is for people who are rather too enthusiastic in supporting our policy, not for those who oppose it. I’m pretty sure that in the law somewhere.

  16. 16.

    Soonergrunt

    In as much as those avenues–appeal for executive clemency, collateral appeal in the Federal Circuit Courts*, etc. are also available to PFC Manning, that’s appropriate useful to discuss them.
    Beyond that, they’re pretty much irrelevant to the case of US v PFC Bradley Manning.

    *It was this appeal by Calley to the US Federal District Court that ultimately reduced his sentence to two and half years on the grounds that Calley’s constitutional rights had been violated, preventing him from getting a fair trial. His final sentence in the military system was 10 years confinement at hard labor, after it had been first reduced by the Convening Authority to 20 and then by SECDEF Melvin Laird to 10 years. The sentence was later obviated by presidential pardon.

  17. 17.

    The Red Pen

    @Belafon:

    And why did Nixon get involved? That doesn’t really sound like something he should have done.

    Right after Calley was originally sentenced, President Nixon ordered him released from Leavenworth and put under house arrest, pending his appeal. That sent a pretty strong message as to what the President thought should happen with the appeal.

    I guess whether Nixon “should” have done that depends on your opinion of Calley’s original sentence, and Nixon’s decision making.

    I think it would probably be politically damaging if Obama got similarly involved because that would prove that Obama is the real racist.

  20. 20.

    Schlemizel

    Continuing to ignore the Manning trail still I see!

    Since you were accused of it a couple of times I thought I’d get that in before the next time it happens.

    Can anyone see any possible ‘good’ outcome, any way the results on the remaining issues get resolved in a way that makes anyone happy?

  22. 22.

    Viva BrisVegas

    Since this is an open thread, I’d like to ask a question that’s been bugging me.

    I’ve seen this thing called noodling on TV. Where you feel around on the dark in an Oklahoma river and grab a giant catfish.

    Now we have catfish, big and small here, but one thing you would never do is grab one. They have lots of very sharp poisonous spines, even the tasty ones.

    So are American catfish spineless? Or are Oklahomans just really tough leathery bastards?

  23. 23.

    Soonergrunt

    @Schlemizel: Well, to be fair, I ignored it (and as much as possible, EVERYTHING ELSE) for the last three weeks because I was on vacation. About the only thing I spent any time or energy on outside of my vacation was Sharknado.

  26. 26.

    Soonergrunt

    @Viva BrisVegas: “So are American catfish spineless? Or are Oklahomans just really tough leathery bastards?”
    Both. And while I’m tempted to tell you that only the inbred backwoods types engage in noodling, called ‘handfishing’ in some other places, I have to admit that I know a PhD chemical engineer and a Neurosurgeon that do it. And they aren’t grabbing the catfish in noodling. They are shoving their hands down the fish’s throat, and pulling the fish out that way. Many of them get bad bites and cuts from the teeth.

  27. 27.

    Corner Stone

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    I hope he gets the death penalty for associating with Jane Hamsher

    Fuck the Jane Hamshers of the Left!
    She’s pure evil you know. And more powerful than the combined thrust of a funny car at launch.

  29. 29.

    Corner Stone

    @jeffreyw: That is one fantastic beard you have. How do you keep it so white and clean with all the tasty food you create?

  32. 32.

    Zifnab

    @Anya: Frankly, I wouldn’t have been terribly shocked or horrified to see Manning get a 5-10 year sentence. I don’t like the laws, but I’m not going to pretend he didn’t break them.

    What disgusts me with regard to the Manning case was the fact that it took over 3 years to bring him before a court. Even Nelson Mandela got the decency of a trial before they shoved him in a cell.

  33. 33.

    srv

    @Corner Stone: Do we actually have any FP’ers who have a real job and aren’t sucking at the tit of soshulist federal, state, local or educational institution?

    Tom and mistermix are the only ones I’m sure of.

  35. 35.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Corner Stone: I wanted to be sympathetic to Manning but anyone that will willingly and knowingly align themselves with Jane Hamsher doesn’t deserve any sympathy.

  38. 38.

    Cassidy

    Can Anne chime in and let us know what opinion we’re allowed to have on this topic?

  40. 40.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Inevitable verdict, but would be surprised if sentence is READY, AIM, ****.

    @Felonius Monk: Last execution of a soldier by the US armed forces was WWII if I recall correctly. Manning won’t get it.

    Hassan likely won’t either, although that fucker deserves to.

  42. 42.

    Corner Stone

    @srv: I thought our Ombudsman worked in the dark heart of capitalism itself as a contributor to Forbes.
    And isn’t mistermix like a roughneck or something in the oil fields somewhere?

  44. 44.

    ruemara

    Is it okay to feel that some of the information Manning leaked was important but the fact that he just did a file dump and there happened to be a real cover-up nugget stuck in the dissemination of a lot of information that was classified, means he should pay some level of price?

  45. 45.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Frankly, I wouldn’t have been terribly shocked or horrified to see Manning get a 5-10 year sentence. I don’t like the laws, but I’m not going to pretend he didn’t break them.

    @Zifnab: He’s already pled to charges that will bring 20, and those aren’t the serious charges. If he comes out of this without a life sentence he’ll be quite lucky.

  47. 47.

    srv

    @Betty Cracker: So then there are a few people in FL who actually work. I was going to suggest there might be a market for wine-foil art once, but then I had a vision of you passed out in the yard surrounded by wine bottles and confused chickens.

    @Omnes Omnibus: drat. I thought he was a writer before he became a true academic.

  49. 49.

    patroclus

    The verdict seems to be a fait accompli given the guilty plea. The sentencing phase is obviously the most part of this trial – I’m hoping for some leniency given how he was treated but I’m not confident that that will happen.

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    @srv:

    I was going to suggest there might be a market for wine-foil art once, but then I had a vision of you passed out in the yard surrounded by wine bottles and confused chickens.

    Oh great, now the NSA has webcams in my tiki bar. Thanks, Obama!

  53. 53.

    srv

    @Corner Stone: As far as I can tell, Patrick Kennedy still doesn’t have a job, he’s been unemployed longer than Alberto Gonzales. So demi-Patrick must be the same.

    @ruemara: I concur also

  56. 56.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    Oh great, now the NSA has webcams in my tiki bar. Thanks, Obama!

    Actually, that was me. It’s what you get for leaving your geodata embedded in your photos. ;-)

  57. 57.

    Roger Moore

    @patroclus:

    The sentencing phase is obviously the most part of this trial – I’m hoping for some leniency given how he was treated but I’m not confident that that will happen.

    I thought the court had already ruled on how his pre-trial treatment was going to affect his sentencing, and the reduction was disappointingly small.

  58. 58.

    Ted & Hellen

    Yes, I know I am totally in utmost suspense wondering how the verdict will go down as we all know the judge is under no pressure whatsoever from above, and there is no reason whatsoever to believe the outcome is predetermined.

  63. 63.

    Soonergrunt

    @patroclus: Well, the Judge already gave him a sentencing credit of 110 days for the harsh mistreatment in Quantico. That’s not to say that his lawyer won’t bring the issue up at appeal as an inadequate remedy, and request more time. The Judge gave him credit of one day for each day of harsh treatment that was found to have occurred in the hearings on that subject. In addition, he’ll get one for one credit for time served, making a 2 to 1 credit for those 110 days. The ACCA may grant additional credit for the harsh conditions–I’ve heard of 10 to 1 ratios, although 2 to 1 is much more likely (which would make a 3 to 1 credit for those days.) I was surprised by the 1-1. I thought it might go as high as 4-1. At the hearing however, it came out that most of what we out here in the world heard and saw was, well, overblown bullshit. Even Manning never claimed that some of the things people around here heard of or thought was happening were in fact happening.

    Additionally, he gets automatic credit of one month off his sentence for every six months of good behavior, so that’s two months off per year in addition to the aforementioned credits. I don’t know anything about how the military does parole other than that.

  65. 65.

    Yatsuno

    @Keith G: And I’m guessing not a double of scotch. But it’s a bit early in the day for that.

    Manning will still see time for what he pleaded out to. He should also get some credit for his time in Quantico.

  68. 68.

    Corner Stone

    @srv:

    I was going to suggest there might be a market for wine-foil art once, but then I had a vision of you passed out in the yard surrounded by wine bottles and confused chickens.

    I always thought Betty Cracker..{blushes}..well, you know..the whole “works from home” routine thingie…

  69. 69.

    Keith G

    @Yatsuno: Interesting story. Since it’s high summer, It’s time to switch to vodka and gin. Just before checking out, my brother gave a me large bottle of Hendricks, so yesterday I decided to make a vodka run.

    The neighborhood store (a block away) had .75l of Tito’s at $25. Seemed pricey so I drove a bit further to Costco. Their 1.75l was $29.

    I think today, it’s Bloody Marys.

  70. 70.

    Corner Stone

    @srv: I guess that’s one way of looking at it.
    Otherwise, I’ve got Randinho down as a world traveling playboy of some variety. AL writes scripts for sci-fi pr0n movies. Zandar is a line foreman of a GM parts factory. I think Freddie simply enjoys his Dickensian lifestyle.

  71. 71.

    Yatsuno

    @Keith G: Tomato juice, celery salt, stalk of said vegetable, liquid breakfast! A shot of Tabasco if you feel like it, though sriracha gives an interesting flavour profile.

  75. 75.

    mai naem

    Manning’s going to spend a lot of years in prison or whatever the army does.

    Driving around Phoenix, I did see an Obey-me bumper sticker with the Obama horizon logo. At least the wingnuts are getting creative. And then I saw a vehicle with a shitload of signs – a couple of Ron Paul revolution stickers along with a No Fluoride, New World Order, Info wars and some other whackjob stickers.

  76. 76.

    Villago Delenda Est

    I am shocked, SHOCKED to be informed that OTC cough medicine can be abused by teens.

    Back in my day (when dinosaurs ruled the earth, and Richard Nixon was still in office) teens would never DREAM of abusing cough medicines! Never! They’d go straight to dope and then a week later be mainlining heroin.

    Also, too, we wore onions on our belts.

  77. 77.

    the Conster

    Sully’s acting like an abused dog who just got a little head pat from his owner the pope. It’s embarrassing.

  79. 79.

    Belafon

    @Villago Delenda Est: Once again, adults making rules to prevent kids from doing what they did as kids. I think it’s probably a good idea in this case, but I think it would be useful for everyone to have to take some type of pharmacology training to at least understand what’s in medicine.

  83. 83.

    Baud

    Someone just tweeted Bradley acquitted of aiding the enemy. Waiting for confirmation.

    ETA: NBC just announced it also.

  84. 84.

    mai naem

    Sounds like he’s going to spend the rest of his life in prison. Gee, I wonder why Snowbird flew out of the country.

  87. 87.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Baud:

    I’ve been wondering who “the enemy” is in this case. Did Congress ever formally declare war on Wikileaks?

  88. 88.

    4tehlulz

    Obviously, the not guilty of aiding the enemy verdict shows that Obama rigged the trial.

    This is also shown in the guilty verdicts on the other counts.

  89. 89.

    Belafon

    @Villago Delenda Est: The enemy was al Qaeda and other groups we considered terrorist organizations. Because they were leaked and the public got hold of them, these groups had access as well.

  91. 91.

    burnspbesq

    Not guilty of aiding the enemy. OK, fine. That’s probably the correct interpretation of the law.

  92. 92.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Belafon:

    Pharmacology training? It would be science based, and science based is, well, insufficiently medieval in outlook on recreational drug use. Reefer Madness ftw, bay-be!

  94. 94.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Belafon:

    So, the “enemy” is a NGO that we used to support when they were aimed at the right guys, aka The Soviets.

  98. 98.

    max

    @Baud: That’s the theory. My question is whether the prosecution has to prove specific intent to aid a particular enemy. If so, releasing to the public wouldn’t be enough.

    a) Yes, and b) it’s a stupid fucking charge. They were laying on everything they could think of. If he’d gotten any cash payments (donations?) I’m sure they would’ve charged him with insider trading.

    max
    [‘Ridiculous people.’]

  101. 101.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @max:

    That’s the way military justice rolls. Lay on the charges and specifications out the gazoo, and see what finally sticks to the wall when the smoke clears.

    The UCMJ has a ton of stuff in it that can be used for practically any occasion.

  106. 106.

    Soonergrunt

    @Baud: She ruled initially that the Government had to prove that Manning knew that the enemy (Al Quaeda and/or the Taliban) would get hold of the information that he was releasing, and that he did so with that knowledge and “evil intent.”
    Clearly, to the Judge’s mind, the Government did not succeed at that. I have been saying for weeks that I thought that they couldn’t prove the charge/spec under that requirement, and that I would acquit that charge, were I on the panel.

  107. 107.

    burnspbesq

    According to NBC News, Manning was convicted of “releasing classified documents knowing they would be accessible to the enemy.” The only way that verdict and a not guilty verdict on aiding the enemy are logically consistent is if intent is an element of the offense of aiding the enemy and Manning was found not to have possessed the requisite intent. So the stupid mixed-up kid defense worked.

  108. 108.

    Baud

    @Soonergrunt:

    Thanks for the explanation. Proving “evil intent” seems like (and I guess was) an impossible task in this case, from what I know about it.

  109. 109.

    Soonergrunt

    @burnspbesq: Early on, the Judge ruled that the Government would have to prove both knowlege that the enemy would get the information (easy to prove, because that was Manning’s job description) AND that Manning intended for the enemy to get the information. One of the phrases she used was “evil intent.”
    The military lawyers I know are all saying the best decision the Defense made was early on to go Military Judge Alone, instead of with a Members Panel. They all think he’d have been convicted of that charge by the panel, who would not have acted coldly and rationally applied the law.

  110. 110.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @burnspbesq:

    According to NBC News, Manning was convicted of “releasing classified documents knowing they would be accessible to the enemy.”

    By this standard, Dick Cheney should be dead, as his heart implant wouldn’t have happened if he were in Leavenworth making little rocks out of big rocks. Because Cheney did basically the same thing by setting in motion the leaking of the status of Valerie Plame to Robert Novak.

  112. 112.

    burnspbesq

    According to ABC News, Manning was convicted on five counts of espionage. He’s looking at >100 years. Sentencing put off until tomorrow.

  113. 113.

    burnspbesq

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Except, as you well know, Title 18 and the UCMJ criminalize different things in different ways and provide for different punishments. And Scooter Libby decided to take the rap for his boss.

  114. 114.

    Mnemosyne

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    So, the “enemy” is a NGO that we used to support when they were aimed at the right guys, aka The Soviets.

    I know the definition of an NGO is pretty loose, but it doesn’t include militias. And the Taliban definitely didn’t qualify as an NGO under even the loosest definition once they started running the government of Afghanistan.

  115. 115.

    The Dangerman

    @mai naem:

    Sounds like he’s going to spend the rest of his life in prison. Gee, I wonder why Snowbird flew out of the country.

    They would make great cellmates.

  117. 117.

    kc

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    That’s the way military justice rolls. Lay on the charges and specifications out the gazoo, and see what finally sticks to the wall when the smoke clears.

    Civilian prosecutors do that, too.

  118. 118.

    Yatsuno

    Cue much gnashing of teef by the nutroots. And candlelight vigils all over for the poor oppressed Manning.

  119. 119.

    Yatsuno

    @kc: A prosecutor, if so motivated, could indict a ham sandwich. And an indictment is really all it takes to mess up someone’s life.

  120. 120.

    Barry

    @Soonergrunt: “2LT Calley’s original sentence was Life w/o Parole at hard labor. It was reduced by many different levels of clemency.
    Personally, I don’t think it should have been. ”

    A pardon can make that sort of reduction, but otherwise – life to house arrest? That’s not clemency, that’s as close to a pardon as politically feasible.

  122. 122.

    Botsplainer

    Maybe he’ll be inclined to sell out Assange and Greenwald now for some clemency.

  123. 123.

    Paul in KY

    @raycharles90: There’s a little skinny one down in South America called the candiru (I think). Don’t want to come in close contact with one of them.

  126. 126.

    Soonergrunt

    @Barry: Nixon ordered House Arrest at the Fort Benning BOQ the day after the Court-Martial sentenced Calley to life without parole at USDB. He later issued a pardon after everything else was said and done.

    Jimmy Carter famously protested the guilty verdict and LWOP sentence by asking Georgians to drive with their lights on for a week. I loves me some Jimmy, but that was not his finest hour.

  128. 128.

    burnspbesq

    @Botsplainer:

    Maybe he’ll be inclined to sell out Assange and Greenwald now for some clemency.

    If he were inclined to do that, the time to do it would have been in 2011, when he had some leverage. He lost that when Assange holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy.

  130. 130.

    Keith G

    The President is speaking. I do so wish that he would just say “No” to speaking in front of a “regular person” backdrop.

    Fuuuuck!

    Who the hell can look at such a vision and think…”Man, that looooks good.”

  131. 131.

    ruemara

    @mai naem: You think his life would be easier in Russia? Really?

    I hope he doesn’t get more than 10 years. I may not like what he did in it’s entirety, but damn, this is a hard thing to bear. His whole life in jail is not justice. Then again, justice, law and punishment are not synonymous terms.

  132. 132.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    MANNING NOT GUILTY OF AIDING THE ENEMY.

    That really could have gone either way. He dodged a bullet.

    Manning could have made his life much easier by rolling over on Assange, but he chose not to. We may never know why.

    @burnspbesq: I think the simplest explanation – and the truth – will suffice. Manning is not very smart. Assange took him for a ride and Manning probably thinks they’re still best buddies.

  133. 133.

    Soonergrunt

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: just FYI–your user name and email address were playing hell with the spam filters earlier. It’s only the context of your comments being on topic is what clued me in to clearing you then.

  134. 134.

    PaulW

    While Manning already pled guilty on some charges and was expecting jail time already, I don’t feel he deserves much more time than the minimums. A harsh penalty won’t act as a deterrent to the next whistleblower, and it just looks spiteful for the gov’t in the long term.

  136. 136.

    CarolDuhart2

    I read somewhere that the leaks may have compromised the identities of sources and agents and some people were killed. So he’s not going to get the minimum. If nobody had died because of his leaks perhaps there would have been say, 50 years with parole, or out in 20 on good behavior.

  137. 137.

    raven

    @Soonergrunt: I wish I could find the WSB footage of civilian workers at Benning right after the verdict. “He should have killed everyone on of them gooks, that’s what her was there for”.

  140. 140.

    CDW

    The NYT said he had pled guilty to lesser charges that carried 20 years, implying, to me at least, that he’s likely to get more. NBC News reported the charges against him carry as much as 154 years.

  141. 141.

    Botsplainer

    @burnspbesq:

    He lost that when Assange holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy.

    I dunno – Assange spending the rest of his life in the Ecuadorian Embassy is fun punishment in and of itself – it punishes Assange, and it punishes the Ecuadorians for intervening in something that was none of their fucking business in the first place.

    Call it a teachable moment.

  142. 142.

    David Koch

    Where is Elizabeth Warren!?

    Why isn’t she defending Manning and calling for his release!?

  143. 143.

    Soonergrunt

    @raven: That’s pretty fucked up. You know, even when I was directly in combat with the enemy, I don’t recall ever thinking of them in terms of them being less than human, or not deserving of respect as human beings.
    On the contrary, I respected very much their ability to kill or maim me and my Soldiers.

  144. 144.

    tybee

    @raven:

    i lived in columbus during those days. many a “free rusty calley” billboard, roadside sign and bumper sticker was seen.
    i may even have a bumper sticker stashed away…unused.

  145. 145.

    Botsplainer

    @David Koch:

    Where is Elizabeth Warren!?

    Why isn’t she defending Manning and calling for his release!?

    Bernie Sanders is selling out, too, by failing to immolate himself in protest in the Capitol Rotunda…

  146. 146.

    raven

    @Soonergrunt: I’ve always said you guys were way better trained. The dude in the ice cream hat would have been a perfect Project 100,000 trooper.

  151. 151.

    Ted & Hellen

    Small victory but a victory. Yay.

    Let’s hope she’s sensible about the verdict: Time served.

  152. 152.

    Botsplainer

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Let’s hope she’s sensible about the verdict: Time served.

    *guffaw*

    Idiot trusted Assange. Idiot goes to prison for a very long time.

    The only sad part is that whichever idiot thought it was a good idea to trust a weird adolescent with access to information well-above his pay grade didn’t get convicted as well.

    It should have only been entrusted to some Spec 5 or higher.

  153. 153.

    David Koch

    @Alex S.:

    I’d like to see a presidential pardon.

    I’m sure Elizabeth Warren will pardon him on her first day in office.

    In fact, I’m sure Liz and Bernie Sanders at this very moment are submitting a Senate resolution demanding his release.

  155. 155.

    LAC

    @Botsplainer: LOL! That will learn ya!

    John Kerry wanted to have ” a conversation” about Vietnam war, but he served honorably and honestly protested. Manning just compromised security and might have endangered lives of other soldiers and civilians for a pat on the back by the slimy Assange and wikileaks. What a sad man…

  156. 156.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @kc:

    Do you really think that’s clever?

    Yes. His other clever one involves the president and the bully pulpit. They are so clever, he reuses them over and over.

    I flinch just thinking about them.

  160. 160.

    Phillip

    I’m with those who think time served is the appropriate sentence. Especially as compared to, say, the sentence given to HSBC for actually laundering money for our enemies. Consistency, in these cases: if we can’t punish the actual criminals, then we should at least force that standard to be used consistently.

    This kid did the right thing. There were war crimes with no accountability and much denial, and the right thing was to force honesty. I don’t have much sympathy for those who oppose the security state collecting all of their data if they won’t concede that they need to support those who push back.

  161. 161.

    NR

    @Botsplainer: And then you’ll be one step closer to your dream of seeing everyone who criticizes Obama jailed and tortured.

    Do you have a whole closet full of brown shirts, or do you just wear the same one over and over again?

  162. 162.

    Phillip

    I’m with those who think time served is the appropriate sentence. Especially as compared to, say, the sentence given to HSBC for actually laundering money for our enemies. Consistency, in these cases: if we can’t punish the actual criminals, then we should at least force that standard to be used consistently.

    This kid did the right thing. There were war crimes with no accountability and much denial, and the right thing was to force honesty. I don’t have much sympathy for those who oppose the security state collecting all of their data if they won’t concede that they need to support those who push back.

  163. 163.

    lojasmo

    @Phillip:

    This kid did the right thing.

    Well, the information he released ended up in Bin Laden’s complex, so even I, as you assert, he did the right thing, he did it in absolutely the wrong way, and should spend a long time in jail.

  165. 165.

    BruinKid

    @Soonergrunt: Wait, what things about his treatment were people saying happened that didn’t happen? Admittedly, I haven’t been keeping up to date with the latest in the trial on a daily basis.

  167. 167.

    Soonergrunt

    @BruinKid: No. Most of what was publicly thrown about at such sites as Firedoglake did not, apparently happen. Manning alleged several instances of abuse in his hearing, but none of the most sensational (and traffic-driving) claims by FDL and other places were among them.
    And let me be clear–many of the things that Manning alleged were definitely illegal under either US Navy regulations (it was a USMC brig) or were of questionable value under the allowed rationales for pre-trial confinement, which are guaranteeing that the accused is present for trial, and preventing the accused from engaging in further misconduct. There were enough of these that the Judge granted 110 days of additional sentencing credit, in addition to the day for day credit (over 3 years worth) that he will receive for pre-trial confinement. That 110 days accounts for the 110 days that the Judge found violated USN regulations, DoD regulations. Neither Manning nor his Counsel suggested that Manning’s civil rights were violated, only his rights under Article 13 of the UCMJ. That’s out of eight and half months of pre-trial confinement at Quantico before he was transferred to the the MJRCF on Ft. Leavenworth, KS.
    But in many cases, Manning himself turned out to be the best witness for the Government in minimizing the seriousness of the claims of abuse and maltreatment, even at one point testifying that he could understand why the brig staff did what they did on one occasion.

  168. 168.

    BruinKid

    @Soonergrunt: Since I don’t read FDL, what kind of abuses were they claiming? Because I’m on DailyKos, now I’m wondering if I read some misinformation someone there got from FDL, and just accepted it as true.

Comments are closed.