From the company paper, in the town where politics is the monopoly industry, in WaPo‘s political-horserace blog:
… Earlier this month, Jeremy Bird, the national field director for Obama’s reelection race, and Mitch Stewart, who ran the 10 swing state operation for the president, signed on to “Ready for Hillary,” the super PAC that is functioning as a campaign-in-waiting for Clinton should she decide to run.
While the Bird/Stewart hires drew attention when they were announced, it’s hard to overestimate what the duo’s decision to work for a Clinton vehicle (and said vehicle’s willingness to have them) means going forward.
The single most valuable commodity in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination is the staff talent that Obama cultivated during his two presidential campaigns. While some of the top names — David Plouffe, David Axelrod, Jim Messina, Dan Pfeiffer etc. — are Obama-ites through and through and won’t likely ever work on another presidential campaign, there is a whole layer of staff talent beneath them that is itching to bring what they learned in 2008 and/or 2012 to bear on another campaign. Bird and Stewart are at, or near, the top of that list — due in no small part to their expertise in building a field operation, a major weak spot of Clinton’s 2008 campaign…
From the MSM Paper of Record, the NYTimes, “A Bet on Clinton”:
A new group dedicated to paving the way for a Hillary Clinton campaign in 2016 has already recruited dozens of the Democratic Party’s elite donors and bundlers, effectively kicking off the presidential money hunt more than three years before Election Day.
The group, Ready for Hillary, is aiming to build Mrs. Clinton a grass-roots network that would give her a prohibitive edge in any Democratic primary and a significant advantage over potential Republican rivals, channeling enthusiasm for Mrs. Clinton, a former first lady and New York senator, into Facebook hits, Twitter followers and affinity groups around the country.
But the group’s early cash haul and cultivation of a high-powered donor network underscores how presidential campaigns have continued to evolve — and lengthen — in the wake of the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision…
Unlike many of the outsize super PACs formed in recent years to wage expensive advertising campaigns, Ready for Hillary is trying to build a list of enthusiastic volunteers and repeat small donors, emulating the model that proved to be Mr. Obama’s most significant strategic advantage in battling an onslaught of Republican outside groups last year. (The group has received more than 3,625 contributions of exactly $20.16 each.)…
Whether or not Hillary Clinton decides to run in 2016, I think this is good for the Democratic party. If she runs, she has a head start on the Republican Klown Kavalcade; if she doesn’t, there’s an army of volunteers and donors ready to support whichever Democrat does. The temptation for second-term Presidents is to hoard campaign veterans & donors for Operation Cement the Legacy, and that’s not good for the rest of their party — ask both Al Gore and John McCain!
schrodinger's cat
Too soon!
Yatsuno
She would help to further implement Obamacare and depending on the Congress she gets expand it or even nudge a few more states onto single payer plans. I hate to sound single-issue, but that’s my main priority for 2016: getting a semi-sane health care system rolling.
Ted & Hellen
I do not think it is good for the Democratic Party or the United States to have wealthy elites trading the White House around between their family members.
The fact that it has already happened with the Bushes is appalling enough. Do we really need to follow suit? Is it really necessary that Hillary be president? Is there NO ONE else in the party who would make a good president?
Really?
Gex
@Yatsuno: There’s a reason Kristol wanted the GOP to defeat health care reform at all costs. I think you are wise to emphasize health care, because when it really gets going, it will make a big difference for a lot of people. And it WILL actually help employers, no matter how much the Chamber of Commerce hates it.
p.a.
The Repubs are insane, but at least their bench has some youth going for it. Any Dem governors stand out? Historically lately they have done better than congresscritters running for Pres.
Ted & Hellen
@Yatsuno:
Obama supporters have made it crystal clear that POTUS has zero influence in congress, even from 2008-2010.
So why would that suddenly change with Hillary?
Jeremy
@Yatsuno: Yeah if she can get a a reasonable democratic congress then she implement further reforms ie. Public option to ACA. Though it’s too early to talk about 2016 I think it vital that a Democrat is a successor to the Obama presidency.
PsiFighter37
@schrodinger’s cat: When there’s a clear-cut front-runner in Hillary (and no rising star anywhere close to what Obama was at this point), it’s never too soon.
Also, too, for all of you bitching and moaning, just remember this: both Scalia and Kennedy are 77 years old (not to mention Ginsburg, who is 80, and Breyer, who is 74). It’s possible we will have the opportunity to remake SCOTUS for a generation.
Dolly Llama
The word you’re looking for in the latter part is “hoard,” not “horde.”
srv
I just don’t know if I have it in me to wind up the PUMA troll for this cycle… oh, well, let’s see (winding, winding, wind…)
How dare you fucking BJ misogyinists make fun of her pants suits. Just because she had to wear the pants for this administration for Benghazi does not justify your MUPpet attacks.
How’s that?
Just Some Fuckhead
I’ve never been a fan of the Clinton’s and I certainly wasn’t a Hillary supporter in 2008 but I had a drunken conversation with a young professional in San Fran who told me how important it would be for women like her to see a female President elected. I can suck it up for eight years if it’s that important.
Yatsuno
@PsiFighter37: I’m still rooting for Fat Tony in the kitchen with a cannoli.
Gin & Tonic
Maybe I’ve been drinking too much already, but I find myself in 100% agreement with T&H.
Gin & Tonic
@Just Some Fuckhead: Is she the only feasible Democratic woman?
Suzanne
@Just Some Fuckhead: If there’s ever a woman president in my lifetime, I think I’ll probably spend her Inauguration Day in tears. And I’m not a crier. It is huge.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Gin & Tonic: I think so.
Jeremy
@PsiFighter37: I’ve been talking about this issue. The next president will have the chance to remake the Supreme court for a generation. The 2016 election will be vital when it comes to the future of the courts, Health care, environmental regulations, financial regulations.
NotMax
One vote for Not.
Can I also register in the name of a dead person and vote Not again?
Anne Laurie
@Dolly Llama: Corrected, thanks!
Mandalay
@Ted & Hellen:
It won’t happen, but Elizabeth Warren would be my choice.
Roger Moore
@Yatsuno:
FTFY.
ChrisNYC
And we have the first If-Hillary-loses-I-blame-Obama post. Not a good sign.
PsiFighter37
@Gin & Tonic: I would take Gillibrand, but I feel like the first female president (just like the first African-American president, might I add) is going to take someone with serious gravitas and star power. As of now, no female politician comes within a prayer of the pull Hillary has.
In the end, I think it comes down to if she wants to do it. If she does, I think it’s going to accelerate the demographic shifts and advantages that Obama has made over the past couple of elections – and could cement Democratic hegemony on the national level for years to come.
As I said above though – Fat Tony and Kennedy are 77 right now – which means 80-81 when the next president is inaugurated…
Quarks
:sobs:
The election is not for THREE YEARS people. THREE YEARS. Surely, surely, we can wait until at LEAST the end of the 2014 elections before talking about it?
Haydnseek
@Ted & Hellen: Relax. You don’t have to paint us a picture.
PsiFighter37
@Ted & Hellen:
Probably no one who is pure enough for your firebagging tastes.
Jeremy
@Gin & Tonic: I’m not the biggest Clinton fan but Hillary is the most popular woman politician in the country and her numbers are so good that she could pull off a 400 Electoral vote total based on polling in many states. Her coattails could pull in enough Democrats to take the house in 2016.
Gin & Tonic
@Just Some Fuckhead: How different is Kirsten Gillibrand at this point in her career from where Barack Obama was in the summer of 2005? Just as one example. There are other first-term Democratic women senators.
Suzanne
@Gin & Tonic: There are plenty of women who would be great. But to be the FIRST of anyone, you generally have to be stellar in order to overcome longstanding societal bias. HRC has a resume that is really incredible. I can’t think of any other women who are in that league.
SIA
@Yatsuno: Exactly thr same with me. I like Hillary ok, Bill not so much (though I’m grateful for the fabulous speech he gave at the convention in 2012). I want Hilary to run because I think she can win, and she’ll protect the ACA.
ranchandsyrup
Never underestimate the power of the Clenis.
Mike in NC
Yes, the fucking Washington Post. If it’s not Milbank or Cillizza, it’s Dan Balz. Because they couldn’t arrange for Karl fucking Rove to drop by.
Gin & Tonic
@PsiFighter37: Hillary is the candidate of the past. She’d be barely (just barely) younger than Reagan was when he became the oldest POTUS in history.
This country was founded, at least in part, on opposition to hereditary monarchy.
Jeremy
@PsiFighter37: I think she is going to run. All her actions point to another run for the presidency.
fka AWS
OT, but this is a nice long read about Dick Trickle, who was a long-time racer, and committed suicide earlier this year.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Gin & Tonic: Has she expressed any interest in running for President?
Poopyman
@Ted & Hellen: @Gin & Tonic: Let’s hear you come up with some names of likely challengers.
Ted & Hellen
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Two words: Elizabeth Warren
Gin & Tonic
@Suzanne: Obama may have turned out to be stellar by mid-2008, but in the summer of 2005 he was a fairly obscure junior Senator who was known for having given one good speech.
Personally, I don’t think HRC will run. I think it will eventually come out that that health issue from last year was more serious than she had let on, and I don’t think she’ll have the energy for a run. It’s all-consuming, as I’m sure she knows far better than I do.
PsiFighter37
@Gin & Tonic: Yes, but just because you have multiple members of a family who happen to be supremely qualified doesn’t mean they should be disqualified for running from higher office. Yes, you have schlubs like the Bushes, but on the flip side, you have the Kennedys.
Besides, no one here is suggesting that Chelsea Clinton is going to be a politician anytime soon. At least it’s not as blatant as the Bushes, who are already grooming George P. Bush (son of Jeb!, nephew of Dumbya) to probably run for president in the next 20 years…
Gwangung
@Suzanne: Hm. Like the first black president?
Like G&T said…let’s see who gets through the primaries; THAT’s the test of star power, not pundit-like judgements ahead of time.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Gin & Tonic:
Tell that to the voters that elected John Quincy Adams, Benjamin Harrison and George Bush.
Mandalay
@Suzanne:
A resume isn’t everything. Her health care reform in the 90s was a flop. And for all her travels and exhaustion I’m not persuaded that Clinton really distinguished herself as SoS. But she was a pretty good senator.
Obama’s resume wasn’t that great, and he hasn’t turned out so bad. Bush One had one of the most stellar resumes of the twentieth century, and he turned out to be pretty meh.
ResumeSchmezume.
Ted & Hellen
@Haydnseek:
Relax. You don’t have to paint us a picture.
But I already did: HILLARY
Jeremy
@Gin & Tonic: Though Regan was an older man his election created many changes in politics (for the worse) and was a transformational president. Reagan also won the youth vote despite being the oldest president in U.S. history.
I think the age thing is overrated.
Ted & Hellen
@PsiFighter37:
You mad, bro?
Gin & Tonic
@Poopyman: That’s the problem. The bench is thin. We haven’t been building a farm team very well, blinded by the glare of BHO and HRC.
But, just for grins, are Gillibrand, or the Newark guy (avoiding moderation) or Deval Patrick, or Julian Castro, or Martin O’Malley any less unlikely than BHO was in the summer of 2005?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Ted & Hellen: Knowing Elizabeth Warren, she’ll be one of the first to endorse Hillary for president.
Gin & Tonic
@Just Some Fuckhead: Two stellar goddam examples there, sport.
JWL
H. Clinton has never admitted error in having endorsed the Iraq War. Quite the contrary, in fact.
She also endorsed the continuation, and expansion, of the sinister national security state apparatus, first crafted by Bush-Cheney, expanded by the Obama administration, and (if only partially) exposed by Snowden.
If she’s the best the democratic party has to offer the country, we might have passed the point of no return in our journey up shit creek.
Suzanne
@Gwangung: Obama’s resume wasn’t incredible, but he projected more vigor, passion, and integrity than anyone I’ve seen in a Presidential candidate since I started paying attention in 1992 when I was 12. In that way, he was stellar. 2008 was a time that really needed those qualities. In that way, he got lucky….the time called for his strengths.
Ted & Hellen
@Just Some Fuckhead:
If Hillary runs, I’m sure that’s true. Because they will have her killed if she doesn’t line up.
You don’t fuck with the global elite .01 percenters.
Ted & Hellen
@JWL:
Preach.
(and gasp!)
Just Some Fuckhead
@Gin & Tonic: Are you retarded?
PsiFighter37
@Gin & Tonic: None of them had a DNC keynote convention speech that rocketed them onto the national scene.
People act like Obama came out of nowhere in 2007, but he was a superstar – people just thought he was too young. The dude was a fucking rock star among Democrats after that speech. People turned out to see him campaign for fucking Joe Hoeffel in 2004 against Arlen Specter at a Philly rally (including yours truly) because of that speech. Can you honestly say Gillibrand, Patrick, O’Malley, or any of these other guys has the kind of national profile Obama did? Corey Booker is a wannabe at best.
Gin & Tonic
@Just Some Fuckhead: Not the last time I checked.
Ted & Hellen
@Suzanne:
Yes, that time of Hope and Change was a lovely, magical era, wasn’t it?
Sad it was all a carefully crafted mirage.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Ted & Hellen: I’m going to cast you into Eternal Darkness again.
Ted & Hellen
@PsiFighter37:
Haven’t we learned that pretty speeches mean zero unless backed up by action and principle?
No, I guess you haven’t…
Just Some Fuckhead
@Gin & Tonic: I’m not your sport and my point was pretty easy to understand: we don’t have a system that forbids family members of previous presidents from running for office themselves. It doesn’t go unnoticed that we only seem to give a damn about this when it’s Hillary.
PsiFighter37
@Ted & Hellen: All I hear is blah blah blah firebagging blah blah blah.
I’m so sick and fucking tired of purists who are shocked, SHOCKED! that nobody ever does everything the way they exactly want. This is the real world, fucking deal with it.
NotMax
@PsiFighter37
That’s George P. G. Bush
Middle names are Prescott Garnica. (Garnica was his mom’s maiden name.)
Although the Hispanic one has been assiduously scrubbed from sites over the past few months.
For example, courtesy of the invaluable Wayback Machine, here is what his Wikipedia page looked like earlier this year.
Ted & Hellen
Wait a minute. Don’t firebaggers allegedly love and worship Hillary above all things…or something something?
And didn’t I just type that I don’t think she should be our next prez?
And then didn’t the rageful Splainer above just call me a firebagger?
Can someone update me on the definitions and categories and specifications of BJ epithets please?
Thanks ever so.
Gin & Tonic
@Just Some Fuckhead: I gave the same damn about it when it was Bush.
And my point, also easy to understand, is that two out of the three times we’ve awarded the position hereditarily, the result has been, at best, mediocre. JQA was a rockstar and, in my view, the last time this was a good idea.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Gin & Tonic: You are still a retard. Find a valid reason to oppose her candidacy instead of damning her because of yer hang ups.
Jeremy
@PsiFighter37: There can only be one Obama. The guy is a historical once in a lifetime candidate/ president. And like you said he was pretty popular and many were saying he could be the first African American president. When all of us are long gone the guy will most likely have a monument in Washington in his honor, and plenty of schools and buildings named after him due to the historical nature of his presidency and his accomplishments. People need to realize that Obama didn’t come out of nowhere in 2007.
Gin & Tonic
@Just Some Fuckhead: Fine. Her support of the Iraq war. Her personnel decisions in her last run, which, so far, she shows no evidence of shedding, or having learned from. Her record of dissembling (e.g coming under sniper fire in Bosnia.) Her age (yes, I’m an ageist – I’m old too, so I’m allowed.)
Want more?
Gin & Tonic
@Just Some Fuckhead: Anyway, this has been more fun than a barrel of monkeys, but I have to go to work tomorrow morning.
Jeremy
@JWL: NSA was expanded long before 9/11. Look up Jimmy Carter and the FISA law he signed in the 70’s which created the modern day NSA.
Also I think a lot of this NSA stuff is over the top. Every country in the world has an NSA type operation. The Europeans, China, Russia, and many others. The problem is how do we make reforms that increase transparency and checks and balances while not pretending terrorism doesn’t exist.
Just Some Fuckhead
Consider your logic:
You: Holy fuck, John Quincy Adams was a fucking rock star.
You: Oh My Fucking God, Benjamin Harrison was a train wreck.
You: We can’t ever do that again because it only works half the time.
priscianusjr
@Gin & Tonic: Maybe I’ve been drinking too much already, but I find myself in 100% agreement with T&H.
Me too, probably for the first time. Pour me another.
Jeremy
@Gin & Tonic: My biggest issues with her have always been some of the campaign advisers she choose and not apologizing for the Iraq war vote.
MikeJ
@JWL:
Are you high? Here’s a story from a year before Snowden.
priscianusjr
@Mandalay: I’m not persuaded that Clinton really distinguished herself as SoS. But she was a pretty good senator.
Hillary was a much better SoS, she was quite a mediocre senator. I don’t know about you, but I’m from NY.
fuckwit
Fucking idiots. Don’t we have a Congress win back in 2014? Like, right the fuck now? Shouldn’t we be building a 50-state grassroots team NOW to keep the Senate and maybe take back the House? Isn’t that the most important thing in the world, the most crucial thing, the thing that everyone with organizing talent should be spending their time and money on?
You know…. the Congress… THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY MAKE THE FUCKING LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY.
God damn am I sick of this elected dictatorship bullshit, this star-fucking authoritarianism. The USA is not a private corporation. It doesn’t have a CEO boss calling the shots. It’s a fucking republic, you have to elect LAWMAKERS to get anything done. That’s Congress.
Also, too, I’m not a fan of Hilary, and am not thrilled with this sort of aristocratic royal family bullshit– I’d be happy to amend the Constitution so that neither children of nor spouses of Presidents can be allowed to run– but if she wins the primary I’ll campaign my ass off for her.
Jeremy
@Jeremy: Though she later admitted that it was a mistake.
Patrick
@Ted & Hellen:
I see somebody didn’t get their pony…
Obama has been the best President in my lifetime. The economy was literally in a free-fall when Obama took over. He saved GM and killed bin Laden. He got ACA passed (Clinton failed with his health-care reform and Carter didn’t even try). He ended the war in Iraq.
Yet some people still complain…
Mandalay
@priscianusjr:
No, I’m not from NY, and I’m not much of a Hilary admirer, but I do recall repeatedly reading articles describing how she worked hard on the boring nitty gritty tasks of being a senator, and was willing and able to help people with their concerns. She didn’t duck the small stuff. Maybe I was sucked in by a fawning press, but those views are in line with my perception of her as a “detail” person.
What made her mediocre in your view? And what made her good as SoS?
catclub
Very few kind words for Joe Biden.
Yes, he is old. He also appears to be the energizer bunny.
Atlantic, GQ, some profile recently. It was very pro-Biden as presidential candidate.
I seem to remember lots of people who kind of fit the ‘Reagan Democrat’ profile, liked him a lot.
Ted & Hellen
@Patrick:
So you’re what…12?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Patrick:
I’m guessing yer somewhere between 5 and 13 years old?
ant
My problem with Hillary is that she seems to not be able to admit that she’s ever made a mistake in her entire life.
Can anybody produce a quote by her where she admits that she messed up?
Having said that, I think that having a woman at the top of the ticket is the way to go for Dems, so I will prolly vote for her in the primarys.
Alls she gotta do to make me happy is pick good supreme court candidates, and drive Republicans fucking crazy.
I think she is well qualified to do that.
So whatever.
(if that fat fucking twelve sandwich eating retarded fucking slob is her pollster again I won’t vote for her)
Davis X. Machina
@Patrick:
Has he called on us to expropriate the expropriators?
Has he demanded ownership of the commanding heights of the economy?
You won’t catch me voting for Obama again, no siree.
Just Some Fuckhead
@ant: Why does she have to do a confessional for you? Is this some sort of weird litmus test we give to the female candidates to ensure they know they aren’t as good as the guys? Who the fuck runs for president on their failures?
Patrick
@Just Some Fuckhead:
You really think Clinton was better than Obama? You really think Bush the elder was better? Reagan? Carter? To each his own…
Zifnab25
FTFY.
Obama wasn’t the ideal President, but he’s got a lot to be proud of. When he retires, I suspect he’ll end up like Jimmy Carter – reviled by the right and beloved by the left, but not giving a shit about either as he runs around the world doing good works for others. Meanwhile, the Bush Family remains hidden in their undisclosed locations, hoping people forget they exist long enough for them to creep back into authority again.
Patrick
@Davis X. Machina:
I doubt I will either since he won’t run again…
JWL
@MikeJ: I was giving credit where it’s due. To be sure, anyone paying attention knew the broad outlines. But Snowden indisputably is the straw that stirred the shit-storm, a storm that is still forming.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Jeremy: As I noted the other night, Reagan didn’t win the youth vote in 1980. He did win with small percentages of the youth vote in 1984, but then again he won 49 states in 1984. Again I will note, I didn’t vote for him either time.
ant
@Just Some Fuckhead:
No. It is a personal thing that I use to figure out if I wanna be around certain people in my life.
People that don’t admit mistakes tend to keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
(It’s something I look for in people.)
And just to be clear: I WANT a female candidate.
Jeremy
@Just Some Fuckhead: Well I’m 26 so I remember Clinton and Bush though I was a baby and a little kid during the end of the Reagan years and Bush I years. I think if you look at the past presidents since Nixon Obama could be considered the best and definitely the most historic.I don’t see how Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II were all that great.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Patrick: Of course I think Bill Clinton was a better President. How does one make a case otherwise? Here’s how: by deciding Obama is the best President in his lifetime less than 5 years into his 8 years. Are you playing with us?
Anybodybuther2016
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jeremy: Community college graduate?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Just Some Fuckhead: I’d agree with Patrick and I’m 53. Let’s see who the competition is: Bush II, Clinton(competitive), Bush I, Reagan, Carter(competitive), Ford, Nixon, LBJ. I like Clinton alot but many of the financial problems are his legacy, Carter was given a shit sandwich with Iran. LBJ didn’t have the sense to get the fuck out of Vietnam when he could; Ford, Nixon pardon; Bush I, meh; Nixon, Watergate; Bush II, worst President ever.
Jeremy
@Patrick: True. If you look at the domestic achievements from health care, to environmental regulations, to foreign policy achievements etc. President Obama beats the records of Carter and Clinton combined when it comes to the totality of reforms and major legislation passed.
Just Some Fuckhead
@ant: Yeah, I know. We’re learning a lot of people have weird rules they make up for not doing something they weren’t gonna do anyhow.
catclub
I wonder what will become of her successor’s Israeli/Palestinian Talks?
They were generally given no chance, so any success might look good.
feebog
I agree that this is way too early in the election cycle (could we at least get past the mid-terms?) but I want to see a Democrat in the White House for 16 years. If that means Hillary Clinton, then so be it. Lets see;
First female President, check.
Full implementation and expansion of the AHCA, check.
Remaking the Supreme Court for a generation or more, check.
As for her age, well she is younger than I am, so that’s not an issue for me. Does she really have a health issue? Guess we will have to wait and see about that, but if not, I fully expect her to run. At this point she is out polling all Republican candidates in Texas. Fucking Texas.
Jeremy
@Just Some Fuckhead: No I graduated from a private university but thanks for playing. All I’m saying is that in modern times Obama’s accomplishments are more impressive than many of the presidents I listed. Now I don’t think Obama is greater than someone like FDR or even LBJ’s domestic record but the guy is better than many of the presidents that came after them.
Anybodybuther2016
@Jeremy:
Bull crap! Nobody cares about Hillary “look the other way” Clinton.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Gin & Tonic: I really do think this is an annoying train of thought. She has to be elected; she doesn’t earn it. She’s also not getting it right after Bill, since it’ll be 16 years since he was out of office.
I think she’ll have a lot going for her: She’s got a strong resume, and is popular. She’ll be the first woman, but not the first non-white male, meaning she should get more done than Obama, though we’ll have to once again realize that she probably wouldn’t get to do everything a white male would. But more winger heads will explode, and the party of no-color will also become the party of no-vaginas. And I’ll take that for a few more years. If she gets the nomination, she gets the support I have given to Obama.
SCOTUS. No matter who is the nominee, a Democrat has to be president.
Just Some Fuckhead
@BillinGlendaleCA: How does that make Obama the best? Do you think we oughta give him the rest of his final term make sure he doesn’t cap off a relatively unremarkable and risk-aversive presidency with something even worse than that?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jeremy: Obama isn’t even as good as Nixon’s domestic record. I can’t fault you for liking the guy but you prolly oughta at least let him finish his second term and then marinate for a few years before you tell people he’s the greatest thing ever. At least make it look like you’ve given it some thought and perspective.
Anybodybuther2016
What I don’t understand is why some women hold up Hillary as some hero that women should look up to. I can think of several women who are worthy of admiration, Hillary is not one of them.
Jeremy
@Just Some Fuckhead: And how was Clinton’s presidency so remarkable and bold ? He failed to even get a vote on a compromise health care bill, he failed to integrate gay and lesbians in the military,couldn’t even get a 16 billion stimulus package through Congress, he signed a regressive welfare reform bill, DOMA, De-regulation of Telecoms, and repeal of Glass Stegall. Let’s not forget that he had no self control and had an affair with an intern knowing damn well the republicans were out to get him.
Now he did some really good things as well like balancing the budget, expanding middle income and lower income tax credits, and leading an economic boom. But in terms of historical reform there wasn’t much during his presidency.
mai naem
I would like to see a Hillary/Biden ticket. I actually think Biden would make the better president but I want Hillary for the history(and she’ll do just fine.) I worry that she is and will be more of a hawk/warmonger than Obama. I admire Bill for his political skills, but I think he’s a little bit too much in it for sheer power not necessarily for the difference he can make in peoples’ lives. I like Obama’s governing style as far as decision making but I think he could be a better negotiator. I think HRC could possibly a better negotiator and, more importantly, I think HRC along with Bill will bring along Democratic white voters who couldn’t get themselves to vote for Obama which just may flip the House(along with the help of demographics.) The Dems desperately need to work on grooming leaders in their 30s and 40s. We have way too many people 60 and up. Also too, Steny Hoyer, Clyburn, and a lot of the old farts from the House need to retire. Not Nancy Smash because she’s done an awesome job.
Jeremy
@Just Some Fuckhead: Did I say he was the greatest thing ever ? No
But you act like those presidents listed were better when many were mediocre or horrible. Go to politifact or any website that list accomplishments or read the New New Deal and then come back to me.
Just Some Fuckhead
Then again, we’re talking about a person that got the Nobel Peace Prize for exactly nothing shortly after he was elected so he is certainly precocious. Maybe by the time his second term is over, he’ll have already been carved into Mt. Rushmore.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Just Some Fuckhead: Of course a final evaluation would have to wait for the full body of work. But really, unremarkable and risk-averse; that might describe Jerry Ford and his WIN button, but not Obama.
Mandalay
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
That’s your opinion, not a fact. And what you call a “strong” resume is also necessarily a “long” resume. And that means there is plenty of material for opponents to dissect and distort.
As I posted earlier, “strong resume” claims are pretty meaningless.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jeremy: That is almost exactly what you said, dipshit. You are the one who is saying he’s the greatest president in your lifetime a little over halfway into his eight years. I’m saying we should prolly wait at least until his presidency is over to decide that.
Jeremy
@BillinGlendaleCA: He thinks sending in a seal team to take out Bin Laden was no big deal. And if that mission failed his presidency would have been over. Or how about the government taking over and saving the Auto Industry which was highly risky and unpopular at the time, or pushing health reform in his first year when every Democratic president including Nixon failed.
Just Some Fuckhead
@BillinGlendaleCA: We’ll see what the historians say. FWIW, Ford had the filibuster blown up when Republicans were abusing it. Obama, not so much.
Mandalay
@Jeremy:
Go to politifact? Are you serious?
How about you go to mediamatters and read about politifact and then come back to me?
Jeremy
@Just Some Fuckhead: I have no issue with waiting till the end of the term but the comment still stands. If you look at the presidents during my lifetime Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 I think Obama comes out ahead.
Also there is no need for name calling.
Jeremy
@Mandalay: I was referring to politifacts promises kept page.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Just Some Fuckhead:
How did he do that? Ford was never in the Senate, and I believe the Senate had a Democratic majority in 1975.
Correction: Ford was President of the Senate from 73-74 as Vice President.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Jeremy:
It’s a Fuckhead family tradition.
Just Some Fuckhead
@BillinGlendaleCA: That’s right. He worked with Democrats to blow it up.
Just Some Fuckhead
Alright, I’m out. It’s bad enough I gotta sit here and teach you idiots history when you are just as capable as using The Google as me but I won’t be disrespected for trying.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Just Some Fuckhead: It seemed to more Mike Mansfield’s and Robert Byrd’s doing.
Jeremy
@Just Some Fuckhead: How can the president blow up the filibuster if there are not enough democrats to support it in the first place. That’s the reason Harry Reid didn’t try it the first time because he didn’t have enough support from his own caucus. Now he has the votes.
ruemara
@Dolly Llama: Maybe she’s secretly a pro-Garrosh Progressive.
ruemara, + some amount of vodka, dunno.
I don’t care if it’s Hillary or some other dem or Bo Obama. As long as it isn’t a republican and that goes for every seat up.
@Quarks: God forbid we don’t have our horse race.
sparky
WUT? No love for Kathleen Sibelius (sp?)? Former Governor of Krazy Kansas, Sec. of Whatever, and blonde. I’m not sure I can vote for a Clinton anymore than I could for a Bush on the principle that my dear friend Ted & Helen stated at the beginning of the thread.
A Humble Lurker
@Ted & Hellen:
Which is why Yatsuno said (in the bit you quoted no less) “and depending on the Congress“. I know you have trouble with the reading, but please TRY.
And I don’t buy into the Clinton hype. She was inevitable last time, and everyone was arguing Obama wouldn’t be able to beat McCain if he beat Clinton. So much for both those points.
Also, yes, 2014. Please, let’s talk about that. That’s what’s important.
Gian
Our best candidate might still be waiting a call up from the minors when the rosters expand after the trade deadline.
My personal issues with Hillary are “landing under sniper fire” story that she couldn’t stop from embellishing more and more as time when on. The Iraq war and her refusal to admit a mistake on that vote. last is the whole “fellowship/family” thing which you can read about here.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics
If she’s nominated I’ll give money and vote for her, but with reservations. (and all of this forgets her rather shameless race-baiting in the 2008 primary) http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-07-clintoninterview_N.htm
“hardworking people. white people” I think she’s a more decent person than that sound bite would have me think. But I’d anticipate that type of quote may undermine the very demographics which suggest Democratic Party victories will be more frequent. Some people just might stay home.
dogwood
One of the reasons we’ll be stuck with a republican house ( and more than likely a rep.. Senate as well) for a good long while is expressed in this thread. When I hear supposedly liberal democrats saying shit like “Nixon was more progressive than Obama ” , I want to tear my hair out. The progressive legislation Nixon signed was passes by a democratic house and senate. That’s who passes the fucking laws. Nixon signed because he didn’t much care about domestic policy. And just for the record, FDR didn’t get much passed after the first 100 days. And after the quick failure of his court packing plan early in the second term, the conservative southern dems and the conservative reps pretty much put an end to any more reforms. I guess I would judge a president by the lasting change the policies he advocated and the law he signed brought to the nation. Thus FDR is great despite the fact he rounded up American citizens and put them in detention camps. LBJ and Nixon are difficult cases. Their lasting accomplishments are equally balanced by disasters that had long term effects. And they were horrible people to boot. Ford, Carter,Reagan , HW, Clinton , W – can’t think of a single law signed by any of them that had any long term positive effect equal to the repeal of DADT and Obamacare. If Obamacare develops and expands in the manner of social security ad Medicare , and if we continue the march for full citizenship for gays, then Obama will probably be judged very favorably by posterity.
Anybodybuther2016
@Gian:
You don’t have to worry about supporting “hard working white folks” hillz, her support is artificial. What you’re seeing at work here is the filthy fingerprints of the Clintonistas, they have no respect for this president and if they think regular people like me aren’t paying attention, they’re in for a rude awakening.
Death Panel Truck
Hillary Clinton for president? No fucking way. She’s Nixon in a pantsuit.
Patricia Kayden
@fuckwit: Love your last sentence. If she’s the Dem nominee, I’ll definitely support her. I hope all Dems think the same way. A Repub President in 2016 would be a NIGHTMARE. Can’t even imagine it.
Patricia Kayden
@Mandalay: The opposition would dissect any Dems’ resume/accomplishments. So what? Hilary may be the best candidate possible for the Dems to keep the WH in 2016. That’s good enough.
Kay
I’ve said this before but I feel I have a duty to report that Clinton is very popular here. It’s just a fact. Whatever one might think about her, it is a fact that in this county she has very deep and committed partisans and it is legitimate grass roots. They’re already talking about her. I get asked all the time (although of course I don’t know any better than anyone else if she’s running, but they do ask).
I like and respect a lot of her fervent local supporters. I liked them in 2008 and I still like them. We didn’t have the huge battles and (public! anyway!) animosity I saw in national media and on blogs here in ’08, and I’m not planning on alienating them this time around, either, whatever happens in the primary.
Ramalama
@PsiFighter37:
I so agree.
But one thing I’d like to (continue to) hammer in: Hillary was not born to wealthy aristocrats. Bill wasn’t either. The two of them came together and made something out of Bill’s political career. And then hers. Remember when Hillary said she wasn’t going to change her last name to Clinton when Big dog was running for Pres? Remember when she was still Hillary Rodham, and then the howls of protest that forced her (if she wanted her husband to have a career in politics) to change her name and also come out with a cookie recipe?
They didn’t have relatives cultivating their careers, like children from aristocratic families.
Recall the carpetbagging complaints when Hillary decided to go after the Senate seat for NY state? Well, she went on a listening tour and turned the votes around in her favor. People changed their minds. They decided they liked what she had to say and voted for her.
This is a different thing – this is not aristocracy like a Bush or a Kennedy coming of age.
I thought Hillary’s vote for the Iraq war was shit fecked up and bullshit. She made huge missteps as first lady. Andrew Sullivan has a career because of it. But I thought / and still think if she were somehow elected, she’d fight for core Democratic issues. She knows how to fight.
Kay
And I just generally don’t agree with taking great people out of the legislative branch. Jesus Christ. We have about 10 who aren’t horribly corrupt and captured in the Senate, and Congress is broken, maybe beyond repair, as it is. Can we really spare them?
Of course I recognize that Clinton, Obama, and Biden came out of the legislative branch, but I would suggest we examine that as a long term strategy. Sherrod Brown is busy. He has a job.
Can we at least look at governors? But only from blue states.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Gin & Tonic: I was wrong about her running for senate, but I don’t think she’ll run for POTUS, either. She has said multiple times that she wants to do other things. Maybe it was all a show, but she struck me as being tired of the rat-race by the end of her SoS term.
She didn’t seem to have the constitution (or the fire in the belly – whatever) for the presidential campaign against BHO, either. Remember her confusion about the “sniper fire” in Bosnia?
And recall the picture in the Situation Room during the Bin Laden raid. She’s obviously a tough person given all that she has overcome and all that she has accomplished in her life. But what does her body language say at that moment?
I think she next wants to do what she has said she wants to do – help girls and women have a fuller-part of the societies around the world. And I think that she would be great at that very important task.
So I don’t think she’ll run, but I was wrong before…
There are lots of great women politicians out there. Picking one now for 2016 is premature, IMHO.
O’Malley has impressed me a great deal. (E.g. Warning: Politico link.) I think he’s one to watch when it comes to native political talent. But who knows whether he can build the national operation that it takes to win the nomination…
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
@Kay
Governor (or else former Congressperson) has historically been a better bet.
The list of those who ran and successfully won election as President while still in Congress follows:
James Garfield
Warren Harding
John Kennedy
Barack Obama
The list of sitting Congresspeople who ran and lost is much, much longer.
Patrick
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Clinton failed to pass any type of health care reform. Obama did.
Clinton helped pass the disastrous NAFTA, while Obama saved GM.
Clinton signed DOMA into law, while Obama refused to defend in court.
And on and on it goes…
Kay
@NotMax:
My objection to it is more process-oriented. We have a “cult of the Presidency” already. I would actually say “cult of the executive” because it’s true at the state level and in the private sector, too, IMO.
Legislature is co-equal, and really important. It’s a different but not lesser role. If people are talented in that realm, they should stay there. I want Congress to step over and occupy some of the space the Presidency has claimed. I think the presidency claimed the ground because Congress retreated, and Congress retreated because it’s safer for them to do that.
schrodinger's cat
@PsiFighter37 Not too soon for Hillary, but too soon for us to discuss this. I am still not over the election fatigue of 2012. MSM’s horse race obsession takes away oxygen from news stories happening right now. I am agnostic about Hillary. If people want to obsess about elections, they should obsess about 2014.
Just Some Fuckhead
@dogwood: By your standard for Nixon, Obama doesn’t get any credit for ACA since he initially ran on a different plan, made a pretty lackluster effort to get the one we have passed and when it looked like it was doomed in the final hour, decided to throw it away and do it piecemeal.
Only through the herculean effort of Nancy Pelosi is Obama the Greatest President in My Lifetime. How did He make her so awesome?
jonas
I have ambivalent feelings about HRC and we don’t know yet if she’ll run, but if she does, she’ll look like the only grown-up in the room. Gawd, can you imagine Ted Cruz or Rick Santorum standing next to her trying to act like they understand foreign policy?
Aside from Hillary, though, what’s the Democratic bench look like for 2016? Seems pretty thin to me. Andrew Cuomo, I guess, who’s basically cut from the same cloth as the Clintons (= never met a social program or tax he didn’t want to cut, slightly slimy, habitually triangulating). Elizabeth Warren? — great lib creds, but freshman senator, low name recognition outside Mass. or DC. Anyone else? The GOP will bring Teh Krazy like never before, but at least they have a clown car of crazy people with national name recognition that energizes their base across the country, and that’s something Dems after Obama don’t really have.
I, Floridian
@fuckwit: Per your 1st para, thank you.