The latest in the Christie/Paul Jr. mudfight (via):
“I find it interesting that Senator Paul is accusing us of having a gimme, gimme, gimme attitude toward federal spending when in fact New Jersey is a donor state, we get 61 cents back on every dollar we send to Washington,” Christie said. “And interestingly Kentucky gets $1.51 on every dollar they sent to Washington.”
Perhaps I’m confused, but I thought Chris Christie wanted to win a Republican primary. The primaries that matter are in taker states, like Kentucky, not maker states like New Jersey. Can Christie win by rubbing the Teatards’ noses in the fact that they are living in welfare state that sustains itself by a regular, vigorous suckling at the federal sugar teat? Even those benighted morons must realize that Kentucky’s $1.51 isn’t all welfare queens driving Cadillacs and young bucks buying t-bones with food stamps. Can they handle the fact that their diabetes test strips, Medicare scooters and Marlboro-yellowed dentures are financed by coastal elite secular humanists who receive a mere $.61 for every hard-earned dollar they send to DC?
Hawes
If you’re a blowhard, the important thing is to blow hard. The direction of the wind doesn’t need to be consistent. Christie’s only advantage in the GOP is that he’s a loudmouth asshole, so he’s just working with the tools he had.
Jack the Second
@Hawes: Is being a loudmouthed asshole really a distinguishing feature in the GOP?
MomSense
He can always pivot back to berating teachers/union members in time to win back the base.
Jerzy Russian
Is it wrong that I derive pleasure from watching these two gentlemen sling poo at each other? One might think I have more pressing things to do than to watch them*, given all of the unfinished projects I have going on at work.
*or commenting here, for that matter
Belafon
It points out that Christie would be a horrible president – “France, the only reason the big people give you a seat at the table is because you would throw a tantrum if we didn’t” – but it is nice having a Republican point this out and fun watching these two go after each other. Maybe Clinton can have Christie be her press spokesman.
Has there been a followup by Paul, or did Christie point out the one thing they have to figure out how to hide?
TomG
I’m considering the theory that perhaps Christie decided a few years back to claim the title of “maverick” on the Republican side, since McCain is pretty old now and Christie has certain disadvantages to overcome if he wants a more national stage. It would explain a lot of his contrarianism.
Anyone else think that this makes sense?
KCinDC
So Christie will get into trouble because the “Keep government out of my Medicare!” crowd will subject his anti-government ranting to rational analysis and suddenly discover how they benefit from government spending? I doubt that’s going to be his problem.
japa21
But, ultimately, the most delegates are in “donor states” not “taker states”. And it is those people he is talking to. And, of course, he is really pushing to show what a hypocrite Paul is, which isn’t hard to do.
Citizen_X
Hah hah. Look at you, with your consistency and logic. Elitist!
Yes it is. And the Mexicans. And foreign aid.
magurakurin
Christie might be a contender, but he has to prove to me that he can live to 2016. I don’t mean that as a slam on large people. Just that it is medical fact that there a lot of complications associated with heavy weight. Steve Gilliard was great guy, great blogger, a great voice on the Internet, but his weight took him from us too early. Chrisite is in the same boat. Everything else aside, this is a huge issue, I think.
EconWatcher
The Republicans can’t win without finding a unifying figure to pull together their various factions, and at this early date, it’s hard to see how any of their possibles fits the bill.
Much as I loathed W, I can see in retrospect how he really was their perfect presidential candidate: Appeal to fundies? No problem; saved by Jesus from the demon rum, and considers Jesus his favorite philosopher to boot. Money guys? Tied to an old money family, and bonus points for deep oil industry connections. Glibertarians? He was all-in on tax cuts and starving the beast. Neo-Confederates? He could pretend to be a redneck with the best of them. Hawks? Some of that early talk about a more humble foreign policy might have had them a little worried, but boy did he come through for them. Oh, and if there are still any moderates left, throw in some pablum about compassionate conservatism.
The more I think about it, what the GOP needs is…another George Bush. But I don’t see any around.
Belafon
@Citizen_X: “We Kentuckians get $1.51 for each dollar we send because we give $1.51 for each dollar we get. Obviously.”
JPL
@magurakurin: He had weight loss surgery to help address his weight problem.
I haven’t seen recent pictures so I have no idea how he is doing.
MeDrewNotYou
I think this is a decent rhetorical move from Christie. In addition to what @japa21: said, he’s bringing up the whole ‘makers vs takers’ bit, which always plays well to the base. Outside of KY, are any righties going to know that they’re in a taker state? Are any of them going to look up an easily found, simple fact? History shows that they won’t; they’ll go on believing their own virtue because they know that they’re right.
So Christie gets to play a favorite tune of the right and everyone but KY ‘knows’ he’s not talking about them.
ETA- Dammit! Missed @KCinDC: at 7.
Face
Uh, no….that’s precisely what they all believe. Every honkey in KY is fully self-sufficient, while the blahs and spahs cause all the problems and steal their tax money and iPads.
Nina
Weight loss surgery bears its own medical implications, and frankly that choleric temper points to more medical/psychiatric complications than the weight. And that Republicanism would disqualify him if he were 165 pounds and a yoga master.
Hoodie
This may be Christie’s achilles heel; he doesn’t know when to shut up. However, it may be a calculated risk he feels he needs to take given the nature of the GOP base. Intimidation is a big part of GOP mindset and one way you do it is by accusing your opponents of being liberal pussies who want the government to take care of them. The classic response is to double down, e.g., Romney and his double Guantanamo bullshit. If you don’t respond, you lose face.
What Christie may be trying to imply is that NJ deserved the federal aid because (1) it was a natural disaster and (2) they already paid for it. He can deflect the diss to Kentucky if it’s taken as all the money going to Kentucky is for “those people”, i.e., all the Kentuckians that aren’t Republicans. The individual GOP-voting yahoo might not think Christie is referring to him personally, as long as Christie is a big enough asshole to liberals, teachers, college professors, women, minorities, etc., to prove his bona fides. Libertarianism a la Ron Paul is skin deep with most GOPers. What matters are tribal markers.
IowaOldLady
Being nasty is feature, not a bug in Republican primaries. The direction of the nasty matters less because they all figure it can be redirected against Obama. They apparently don’t know he can’t run again.
Punchy
I think the explanation for Christie’s behavior is that it’s apparently really hard to be a dick when you cant see your own.
cleek
perhaps Christie isn’t so interested in the mouth-breathing caucus, and is trying for the urban/sub-urban non-movement conservatives instead. there are a lot of them, after all.
weaselone
@Belafon:
Paul’s response was essentially: “Kentucky has military bases. Do you want to hurt our brave soldiers fat boy?” A nice slither and dart that conveniently ignores that NJ actually has more military bases than Kentucky and that military bases are not the reason for the discrepancy.
The Moar You Know
Never been anywhere near the South, have you?
It’s always the fault of the black people. Always. They’ve already left the United States once rather than face up to the fact that it isn’t.
MikeJ
@IowaOldLady:
To be fair, that really doesn’t matter. I can barely remember who it was Obama beat in ’08 because Bush was the issue.
raven
This whole makers vs takers stuff seems like bullshit. The takers will just tell you it’s not THEM that takes, it’s the ni-clangs!
eric
Until i hear Christie tells me he loves Jesus Christ and that he does what he does out of his belief that the Lord has ordered the world thusly, then I am not buying he can win the primary. The primary voters want a theocracy and they want it before the Tribulation so that Jesus is not pissed at them, too.
Digital Amish
@Citizen_X:
Yeah, I’ve spent a little time down in the Tennessee/Kentucky area. I think it’s fair to call it “foriegn aid”.
Maude
@raven:
And the bankers and corporations are the biggest takers.
Villago Delenda Est
This is glorious. Destroy each other, you assholes. Go for it!
SatanicPanic
I’ve heard two very dubious explanations for wingnuts about this. One is that their states have much lazier minorities than blue states, for whatever reason. The other is that people retire there. Because making it to age 65 means you are not a moocher. Those are the ones I’ve heard.
red dog
@Digital Amish: Having tried to have a sensible conversation with a southern Goper is an oxymoron.
Tone in DC
@Digital Amish:
LULz.
I was traveling through the hills of SW Virginia in 2009. It’s a fair description.
Villago Delenda Est
@Belafon:
WIN!
Neutron Flux
@EconWatcher: Sam Brownback from Kansas, I think. He is ruining the state so that he can ascend like George W Bush as a candidate with executive experience.
brettvk
@EconWatcher: JEB! has to walk that delicate line of being the new GWB while not reminding anyone of GWB. Given the GOP, he might do it. I’m unconvinced that Shrub permanently damaged the family brand; I remember Nixon’s story arc.
cmorenc
@EconWatcher:
That’s Jeb Bush’s niche in the GOP, but purportedly without any of the drawbacks of George W., except for the glaringly inconvenient fact that Jeb is George’s brother. That, and the fact that Jeb will have a problem George W. didn’t back in 2000, how to navigate the dominant wingnut factions within the GOP without alienating moderates.
BTW: wasn’t that supposed to have been Romney’s niche: Bush without his stupidity, baggage, or problems?
Mark B.
Whatever you think about Christie’s rhetoric, it was very effective. Paul immediately threw up a white flag and conceded the debate after that remark. I think he didn’t want to get hurt any worse by the fat man.
Zifnab
Florida, NY, California, Texas… which one of these is a taker state? I mean, the primary states take a whole bunch of pandering too, but I think they’re more of a special case since neither Paul nor Christie will be crazy enough to suggest eliminating agricultural subsidies while in Iowa or defense spending while in S. Carolina.
rb
Bush without his stupidity, baggage, or problems?
After that, what’s left?
gocart mozart
Short answer: Christie is not running for President. His comments help him in Jersey where he will be re-elected and then perhaps a future Senate seat. The media is assuming he will run but they don’t know shit.
NickT
Chris Christie’s an alfalfa male, but he tries, bless his heart.
Paul in KY
@Citizen_X: We don’t really have alot of ‘young bucks buying t-bones’ in Kentucky. Some of the casual racism here weirds me out as the person belching it out has probably only met 2 or 3 black people in their life & none live within 30 miles of them.
FlipYrWhig
@EconWatcher: Bob McDonnell was another George Bush in the making. Then he raised taxes. Then his many ritzy gifts from a sleazy lobbyist were revealed. Now he’s going nowhere. Haha!
Paul in KY
@Face: And Ski sodas too!
FlipYrWhig
@gocart mozart: that’s my feeling too. Christie is running to be Emperor of New Jersey, not president, and never president.
Just Some Fuckhead
Hells to the yeah! These inbred white yahoos knows they ain’t the problem in Kentucky. It’s OTHER PEOPLE and Christie done called ’em out.
NickT
@Paul in KY:
But isn’t that the core of racism – hateful generalizations about people/communities that the racist doesn’t know and takes great care not to know?
karen
I think that Christie is thinking ahead of the GOP dog show to the general election and for that he needs moderates whether they’re Republicans or Democrats. Remember, a lot of the people who like him in Jersey are Democrats.
Paul in KY
@The Moar You Know: Just for the record, Kentucky did not leave The Union. We did have a little more sense than the dipwads down in SC, AL, MS, etc. etc.
Shakezula
@Face: Exactly. And even if they and their families would be dead in ditches without government assistance they are convinced they it is different. They’re just getting help until they’re back on their feet (even if this takes 80 years). Everyone knows those blah people have no intention of working.
FlipYrWhig
@Paul in KY: seems like a case of Atrios’s theory that conservative rank-and-filers believe there’s a special “black welfare” that’s really generous.
Just Some Fuckhead
Sorry about that, Paul. I didn’t realize you were here.
Paul in KY
@NickT: You know it! We’ve always been at war with Eastasia…
Fred
I’ve been to the south and even lived in SC for a short while. When I hear people talk about “The New South” and how it’s not like it used to be I just laugh and laugh.Them ol’ boys don’t like them no uppity nigrahs, uppity wimins, yankees or any other kinda ferrin degenerates, no how. They’s good christins and they’ll shoot you to prove it.
Another Halocene Human
Those shitweasels in KY land know it ain’t young bucks or Messicans which is why they voted themselves a god-damned STATE HEALTH EXCHANGE
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Maps-and-Data/State-Exchange-Map.aspx
AND they are reforming their school curricula. In fact, some Catholic-vs-Protestant ruckus over the biology guidelines is the only thing that’s put them in the snooze lately besides their shitty Senators.
Maybe ALEC hasn’t really bothered to drop money there lately or maybe the real shit is a few years off. The Appalachian states have done a big 180 in the presidential elections because racism, but it takes longer for every other level of government to flip.
I think it underscores just how bizarre what is going on in NC right now is. When NC is the story and KY and TN are actually making good decisions you know something is very, very wrong.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Paul in KY:
Paul, Kentucky did the most senseless thing imaginable: They declared themselves neutral in the war to preserve the union.
Paul in KY
@FlipYrWhig: That program has only been in place since 2009, dontchaknow.
Paul in KY
@Just Some Fuckhead: I just consider the source ;-)
Trakker
Rand Paul believes he’s an intellectual giant because he’s been surrounded by the self-selected dumbest people in the country, and he just met a foe from the “other” United States where politicians have to have a command of actual facts to win elections. No contest. Christie can beat Rand with one lobe tied behind his back.
NickT
@Trakker:
Rand Paul – a jackass among imbeciles.
Shakezula
As for Christie saying mean things, the Base thrives on bluster and rebRAND PAUL(TM) is one of them leetiss doctors. Can’t really trust him. Christie’s problem is he can’t to deliver their RDR of bigotry without making himself unelectable in NJ.
Having said that, I’m glad he pointed out the spending disparity. This east coast leetiss is sick of those fucks yelping about their precious tax dollars.
Paul in KY
@Just Some Fuckhead: We weren’t nuetral. There was a ‘confederate government’ or something, but it only controlled some BS part of state until the battle of Perryville. Alot of good Kentucky men died fighting for the Union. I’ve seen their grave markers.
cleek
@Fred:
SC ain’t the “new south”. try one of the big cities.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@gocart mozart: you may be right, but I see Christie as having an ego and ambition outsized even in a world where Rick Santorum and Tim Pawlenty think (or thought) they can and should be president. And he’s youngish and smart enough to know the Senate’s a bad fit and a political albatross. I wouldn’t be surprised if he sits out 2016 to preen and concern troll bothsides for a few years. Is NJ’s gov term limited?
gocart mozart
Strike one: Called the Sharia obsessed idiots
Strike two: Was once nice to Obama
Is this strike three?
SiubhanDuinne
@TomG:
You mean to tell me Christie was never a POW??
NickT
@SiubhanDuinne:
POS, yes, POW, not so much.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Paul in KY: No, Kentucky declared itself neutral at the start. The state had pro-Union sentiments, the governor was a scalawag confederate and Kentucky wasn’t fully on board with the Union until the Confederacy invaded and therefore appeared to be the bad guys (which granted, was pretty early on.)
cleek
did you people forget how to count?
Christie doesn’t need to win the deep-south GOP “base”. Romney didn’t – he lost SC, GA, MI, AL, and he lost most of the mid-west. but he won the big states and the more moderate states. and McCain lost a lot of the south, and mid-west, too. but again, he won the big states.
a guy can go a long way without appealing to the fundamentalist wing of the GOP.
Roger Moore
@SatanicPanic:
It does. It means you’re getting back your actuarial share of what you paid into the system. The flaw is in not seeing that collecting unemployment, medicaid, etc. is essentially the same thing. Part of the reason we pay taxes when we’re doing well is so there will be a safety net for us when things go bad.
The Moar You Know
@Trakker: Paul’s a doctor’s kid with a shitty hairpiece and no spine, never been in a real fight in his life.
Thought he’d start some shit with Christie, wasn’t expecting the fat guy’s first shot would be right to his balls.
Comrade Jake
Speaking of Kentucky, is there any real hope old turtle-face might get tossed?
Belafon
@cleek: Of course we did. But that doesn’t mean we were bashing on KY/Paul/Christie by accident.
NickT
@The Moar You Know:
To be fair, that’s a pretty miniscule target, so Paul was reasonably justified in expecting a swing and a miss from the Jersey Blowhard.
Paul in KY
@Just Some Fuckhead: Them was carpetbaggers (the ones who declared KY nuetral). Once we saw what the Confederacy was all about, it was time to commence whuppin.
rda909
@SiubhanDuinne: Unless POW means Person of Weight.
Paul in KY
@Comrade Jake: She’ll need to run the race of her life & the mutant turtle will have to step on his dick in some way for her to have a chance,
Would be nice if McConnell was stupid enough to diss Pope Francis in some way. There are alot of Catholics in Northern KY who usually vote Repub. If she can peel them away somehow, that would really, really help her.
You know, that SOB has never lost a race.
chopper
@weaselone:
heh. “yeah, you guys have two military bases, one of which you share with fucking Tennessee. we have what, eight or nine? eat a dick.”
Just Some Fuckhead
@Paul in KY: Kentucky is a beautiful state and has a wonderful history but if it wasn’t for Arizona and a couple of other regressive states, it very well could domicile the dumbest people in America. I have first hand knowledge of this.
Belafon
@Comrade Jake: Doubt it. Remember the Sanford election in South Carolina, where the Democrat had an 11 point lead until people started realizing that a Democrat might win?
waynski
As an NJ resident, I would remind everyone that Christie is running first and foremost for relelection this year. Picking a fight with goober Paul doesn’t hurt him here even among repubs.
Anybodybuther2016
Paul in KY
@Just Some Fuckhead: I don’t say this very often, but Thank God for Arizona!
Just Some Fuckhead
I mean that in the factual, non-insulting way, Paul.
kindness
Christie has to know he can never be President. He has to know he’d never make it through the Republican primaries. But as a Democrat….
Another Halocene Human--Of The Misspelled Nym!
@TomG: Grr, I now can’t get the sound of Tina Fey-as-Lou Sarah smugly stating “Maverick,” out of my ear.
You’re welcome
Paul in KY
@Just Some Fuckhead: Understand. I feel I am pretty good a picking up when you are being insulting. You do have a ‘tell’.
Another Halocene Human--Of The Misspelled Nym!
@Face: But Paul knows better than this because he immediately zoned in on the military bases after Christie’s volley and started whining about why New Jersey hates the troops.
Gin & Tonic
@Roger Moore: It means you’re getting back your actuarial share of what you paid into the system
That’s a crock of shit and you know it.
Another Halocene Human
@NickT: Knowing them intimately and still hating them is more pernicious, IMO. Speaks to a serious compartmentalization of empathy and can lead to some really horrific things. Someone who hates from afar always has the potential to have their mind changed by experience. Someone who hates up close has made a conscious decision to do so.
This is why the anti-miscegenation and other anti-“social equality” measures were fought for with such extreme ugliness. Without it, in a few generations lives would be entwined in such a way as even the most determined racist would be overcome, or at least would lose control of the minds of their children and it would all be over.
Trakker
@The Moar You Know:
Heh! Then he hasn’t been paying attention (Rand doesn’t seem bright enough to recognize real danger).
Christie is the most interesting Republican politician right now and all the politicians in the idiot nation that have presidential ambitions better watch their back. Christie is way out of their league intellectually and I suspect he’s going to spend the next two years picking them off one by one. Should be quite entertaining…
Another Halocene Human
@cleek: SC ain’t the “new south”. try one of the big cities.
But not Charleston, because that place is racist as fuck.
Better yet, try another state entirely.
NickT
@Another Halocene Human:
This is theoretically true, but I don’t think you’ll find that many racists in practice who actually have or want intimate knowledge of the communities they hate. Yes, there’s the occasional, horrendous exception – who may well be more dangerous – but a lot of racism is of the “I heard it from Limbaugh” variety.
Another Halocene Human
@cleek: Damn good point.
Kent
The irony of these discussions is that we are mainly talking about entitlement spending (social security, disability, medicare, medicaid, etc.) rather than direct Federal subsidies to states or direct Federal spending on Federal institutions within states (military bases, national parks etc)
Which of course means that the Paul Ryan budget and similar budgets advocated by the tea party types would actually serve to narrow the gap between “doner” and “taker” states. Had Romney and Ryan been elected and gotten their way we would have seen tax cuts for the wealthy that would have mainly gone to residents in donor states in the Northeast, California, and Texas. Essentially the really big wealthy cities. At the same time cutting back medicare and medicaid would have disproportionately hurt the poorer, rural, and older states.
Oh, and as a former resident of Alaska we should probably drop Alaska out of this discussion as it has unique circumstances that increase per capita Federal spending. For example most of the State is Federal lands so there so lots of BLM, forest service, and parks service employees. Alaska has a larger coastline than the rest of the 49 states combined so lots of Coast Guard and NOAA spending. Alaska also has a high native population and a lot of Federal dollars are spent there and it has some big military installations that are more strategic than most bases in the lower 48 due to proximity to Asia.
Hoodie
@cleek:I don’t understand why people don’t get this. The GOP primary is about eros and money, but the eros part is subject to a schism between fundies and Birchers. The money guys will go for Christie and the courtier media will endlessly massage his wand (if they can find it). The fundies and birchers operate mostly on emotion. The only risk to Christie is if the fundies and the Birchers find one candidate they both love so that one candidate can compete with Christie in the non-confederate states while rolling up all the blood red ones. Perry had a chance of doing that to Mitt, which is why Mitt went after him hammer and tong. Perry fucked up by forgetting he wasn’t in Texas anymore and not beating up sufficiently on the brown folks, thus disillusioning all the nativists that were ready to jump into bed with him. They would have overlooked his doofusness if he just had called a spade a spade, so to speak. Because he didn”t, the lust quickly turned into rejection, thin line between love and hate and all that.
Another Halocene Human
@Just Some Fuckhead: Pretty darn racist, too. I knew this Indian kid in high school whose parents for some damn reason thought Southern Kentucky would be a good place to settle. Needless to say, school there was hell.
Even the kind of deliberately obtuse, highly tribalistic Catholic parish where I went to church and worked (but thankfully didn’t go to school) in the Northeast was tolerant if not terribly understanding. I used to work with an Indian-American named Kelly. Her mom named her Kelly so she would fit it. :)
There’s a big qualitative difference between constant verbal assaults face to face and a couple of cowardly sniveling snots breaking glass and spraypainting slurs at 3:30 in the morning (against Jews or East Asians, just to recall two examples).
NickT
I think it’s interesting that the various wannabes are taking shots at each other this early – and yet Santorum is staying very much under the radar. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up as the nominee in 2016 – assuming that he wants it.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Gin & Tonic: But the people he’s describing don’t. It’s why the “let me invest my Social Security tax payments in something with a better return” idea still has legs. They think the SS payments are shitty because of poor investing by the government.
Syrbal/Labrys
I don’t know if what he is doing will win him anything, but after years of hearing Republicans laugh at Dems for “eating their own”, it sure as hell is amusing to see them going for each other’s throats!
Another Halocene Human
@Belafon: Remember the Sanford election? It came down to turnout. Which is to say, this, too, shall pass.
I see no reason not to bait Mitch McConnell and his party into a costly Stalingrad-esque fight for his seat, pulling attention and monies away from other races, embarrassing the entire GOP ticket, and energizing KY Dems. :DD
Paul in KY
@NickT: You’ve probably heard this before, but I’ve not lived the kind of life where I would be rewarded with Ricky Satanum as the 2016 Repub nominee.
NickT
@Paul in KY:
Nonethless, I think Santorum might well tickle the GOP’s ignorant, Talibangelical sweet spot more than the alternatives. I suspect that the final round will come down to Walker versus Santorum, but I’d love to be wrong about that.
NickT
@Another Halocene Human:
I’d like to think of it as Mitch’s Retreat From Moscow.
Ron Thompson
Maybe Christie isn’t running with the expectation of winning in 2016. Maybe he’s playing a longer game to try to pull the Republican Party back from what William F. Buckley, Jr. used to call “the fever swamps”, and that will require a prolonged war on the nutcases. Maybe he realizes that he can’t possibly be nominated in 2016, but that seeking the nomination is the only way to get a national platform for his particular brand of conservatism: he’ll be Goldwater to somebody else’s Reagan.
NickT
@Ron Thompson:
That strikes me as unlikely, given Christie’s persistent short-term blowhardism. I also doubt that a man with an ego of such vast dimensions intends to play John the Baptist to anyone else.
furlyfly
Thank FSM that cat whisperer Cole is so obsessed with his stupid cat that he bores us with it daily instead of “Christie is awesome” posts.
Given a choice I’ll take endless posts of how his cat is so awesome because it…..does things cats do.
Another Halocene Human
@NickT: Er… are you familiar with the rural Deep South? Lots of small cities and towns where different ethnic groups are up close and personal.
The mountainous areas are a different story. Actually, it’s sort of fascinating in an anthropological sense because the ethnic origins of a lot of Appalachian people have been obscured (for self-protection). For example you have the “tri-racial isolates” which were basically communities of African-Americans who passed for whites and also communities formed by families of mixed Native and non-Native heritage, both of which were avoiding contact with White communities because of or out of fear of violence and discrimination. Plus you have Turks & Arabs & so on settling high in the hills and that history being erased because it’s furrin and we don’t like no furrin folk up here.
Then you have the idiotic cultural mythology… the claims that the culture is identical to Nova Scotia or some idiotic shit like that, or the Elizabethan English claims (nonsense), both appeals to a relatively advantageous bloodline with a sort of reverse elitist cultural claim (we’re more PURE)… even, later, the bogus claims to Cherokee ancestry and cultural inheritance. All of these are fictions. Even the “Celtic” music owes a ton to West Africa. I guess living in abject poverty in those hills with the incest and everything else spawned a deep and pervading xenophobia, hence all the purity myths, a sort of defiant self-justification. But there’s also a deep sense of shame.
The white-nationalist myths also had an immediate bounty in getting tons of money and support from racist Federal governments in the 20th century, so there’s that. (Or before, in being given land there stolen from Cherokee during the genocide.)
Every time I go up in the Blue Hills I have to wonder about what kind of shit they were smoking to drive the Cherokee out of the mountains and colonize the place with a bunch of dumfucks who couldn’t make it and needed to be bailed out repeatedly. Just a total lack of cultural knowledge as to how to survive on Indian corn, for one thing. There’s a reason that culture is so obsessed with hunting. They don’t know how to process corn at home which means pellagra without getting Niacin from a different source. The US Gov finally started spraying Niacin on white bread and subsidized the shit so poor families would buy it and eat it.
Oh yeah, I forgot, despite running them up in the hills and harassing the fuck out of them the USG was terrified the Cherokee would fux their shit up at some point so they felt safer after sending them on a death march to a desert where they didn’t have the first fucking clue how to get by.
Your wise benevolent white government in action.
Davis X. Machina
@NickT: Yep. My favorite example is all the loose talk directed at ‘Mexicans’ I hear — here in exurban western Maine. Quebec is 2.5 hr. away. The state is less than 1.5% Hispanic of all kinds.
You can drive from sea to shining sea eating at franchises of the same chain, staying in the same brand of motels, listening to the same sports talk radio in the car — and hating on the same minorities.
Corporate America has brought us all together
hells littlest angel
@gocart mozart: @Ron Thompson:
Bingo. He’s running to lose the nomination in 2016, but also to be the guy the Republicans later realize should have won, thus lining up 2020 to be “his turn.”
Jim Pharo
Ah, another opportunity for me to promote my sure-fire idea on how to tie these morons up in knots: Form an institute (or foundation, or general 501(c)(3), etc.) for the purpose of promoting a Constitutional amendment prohibiting any state from receiving more in federal funds than it sends to the federal treasury each year. Our rallying cry is “End State Welfare.” We’ll argue that we are doing this to spare the poor states the indignity of being “seekers,” and that it’s really for their own good that they start paying their own bills.
After Shelby, I’m pretty sure this has something to do with “equal state sovereignty”….
Ted & Hellen
This post gave me tingles in my private areas.
The giver/sucker state reality is another vastly under utilized messaging plus for the Democrats and I’m glad to see it publicly mentioned.
That said, naturally it took a Republican to bring it up.
Oy.
NickT
@Davis X. Machina:
We even have the modern version of sundown towns in the gated communities that have sprung up like self-satisfied mushrooms after rain. As Trayvon Martin discovered.
WereBear
I hope he hasn’t sealed his death warrant with that move. “Word on the street” is that this solves your weight problem. In actuality, there are three main ways this can go horribly wrong:
*You nibble all day and keep the weight on. Thirty tiny meals adds up.
*You stretch the thing they shrank. Now it’s carrying the same capacity, only it is now a crippled system.
*You drop the weight.. and it won’t stop. Because you have permanently damaged the nutrient pathways. You die of starvation… or intractible seizures… or organ failure.
Don’t believe the propaganda which turns out to come from bariatric surgical centers. It’s got a 1 in 200 FATALITY rate.
I know of only one person who is doing well with it. The others are struggling or dead.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@brettvk: I’m unconvinced that Shrub permanently damaged the family brand; I remember Nixon’s story arc.
Nixon’s comeback was over a lost election, not fucked up at being president.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@Another Halocene Human: My wife has “melungeon” heritage. It really is fascinating.
And I should add that when I was doing genealogy on my mom’s side, I got back to the wild and woolly 1800s in Hawkins County/Hancock Country Tennessee area and some ancestors who may or may not have been tri-racial isolates who migrated from the Wilkesboro, North Carolina area.
catclub
I looked and found NJ = 77 cents, not 51
KY = 1.57 which is closer
The 50% fudge for NJ is GOP truthiness factor.
catclub
@Jim Pharo: Your heart is almost in the right place, but, It won’t end well.
Most of that money coming back does go to poorer people. (Or in Mississippi – really, really poorer people.) and often over the strenous objections of the rich people of that state. An example is Medicaid, which is income based, but the states have to pay a share. They are pretty happy to screw their poor residents in the ACA expansion.
Ron Thompson
@TomG: @Zifnab:
I think both of you misunderstand the apportionment of delegates to the Republican convention. It is heavily weighted toward the South and Mormon West, with additional delegates for having a Republican governor, legislature, senators, or congressional delegation, and for going for Romney.
In 2012, Wyoming had one delegate for every 19,876 residents in the 2010 census. California had one for every 221,171, a ratio of more than 11 to 1.
A Southern-backed candidate with 45% national support would easily win the nomination over a Northern-backed candidate with 55%.
BarbCat
This little synopsis has made my day mistermix. And, I’m glad Cole has found a new love!
Yatsuno
@Another Halocene Human: Yertle already has a primary challenger. The state party is trying desperately to find his price for getting out of the way, but the teatard is surging forward becuz FREEUMB!!! or something. And the Democratic party is rallying behind Grimes who is already proving to be quite the tough cookie, plus she has won a state-wide race before. Make yer popcorn now before it goes up in price!
JPL
Christi doesn’t have time to chat with Rand Paul but is flying to Vegas to attend a private fundraiser with Adelson.
Rand Paul must be fuming at this point. He’s been punked.
must credit TPM.livewire
The Moar You Know
@WereBear: I’ve known three, over the years. They’re all still fat. They lost weight at first, then either just started chowing down again or switched to sugar, which is why two of them now have diabetes.
The surgery, bluntly put, does not work. These folks are addicted, and unlike cocaine, you can’t quit eating food.
catclub
@Ron Thompson: Interesting! I did not know that.
It is one way a conservative organization can only change at a glacial pace. All the power rests with incumbents, and states that already have lots of incumbents. Turn a state red and you only have to wait 8 or 10 years to start getting more influence in the party.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Hoodie: Perry had a chance of doing that to Mitt, which is why Mitt went after him hammer and tong. Perry fucked up by forgetting he wasn’t in Texas anymore and not beating up sufficiently on the brown folks, thus disillusioning all the nativists that were ready to jump into bed with him
Perry is running again, remember?
Paul in KY
@Ron Thompson: God bless him on trying that. Maybe cleaning the Augean Stables in 1 say might be easier.
He certainly can’t do it alone.
Paul in KY
@furlyfly: I know!!! Isn’t Steve awesome!
Paul in KY
@Another Halocene Human: I think the Cherokee thing was more that they were on nice land that God fearing whites (who would vote in Presidential elections) wanted to settle, so Pres. Jackson heaved them out for the above expeditious reasons.
NickT
@Paul in KY:
It’s the way his tail-tip just brushes Cole’s nose that is so adorable.
Paul in KY
@hells littlest angel: The Repubs will pull out all stops to win in 2016. This will be like 2000 times 3.
Paul in KY
@Ted & Hellen: Most of the ‘giver’ states already vote Democratic at Presidential level. I don’t see how hiliting the ‘sucker’ states is going to turn tham blue.
Please elucidate.
NickT
@Paul in KY:
It’ll be fascinating to watch Fox inventing all manner of nonsense. I imagine the Sarah Palin Unskews The Polls show should be one for the ages.
Ron Thompson
@Paul in KY:
Yes, they know that time is their enemy, and if they can’t solidify their hold on the Supreme Court and use it to free up corporate money and uphold draconian voter suppression laws, they’re on the fast train to extinction. This may be their last real chance, and they’re not going to leave any bullets back at the fort. That’s why it makes so little sense for the Democrats to continue to defend the filibuster. If we get a Republican President and Senate in 2017 they will move heaven and hell to confirm replacements for Scalia, Kennedy, and Thomas.
catclub
@NickT: Just tell the old codgers she unskews the poles.
Ratings bonanza.
rikyrah
the entire GOP Primary system is won thru ‘leech’ states like Kentucky.
keep on talking, Governor Krispy Kreme
Linda
@TomG: Maybe he figures the extreme right wing will sink by 2016, and he will be the moderate in good shape for a presidential run. However, it might not be just he right wing that sinks. They may take the GOP ship down with them. In which case, he’s screwed. And that, too, would be a good thing.
Paul in KY
@NickT: I don’t know about ‘fascinating’. I wanted to throw my TV out the window many times during that shitty year. I dream-strangled 10 or 12 pundits.
Also VP Gore had me cursing too with some of his mistakes.
Bob In Portland
@magurakurin: Hadn’t thought about Steve in awhile. Now I did and it made me smile.
Bob In Portland
@magurakurin: Hadn’t thought about Steve in awhile. Now I did and it made me smile.
Paul in KY
@Ron Thompson: Good point. I would worry more about them undoing the fixes and accomplishmants Pres. Obama has put in place.
I saw how all of Pres. Clinton’s good works were raped by Darth Cheney, Batshit McChimpy & their band of traitorous fucks.
Paul in KY
@Bob In Portland: Fuck the fucking Yankees! RIP, Steve.
furlyfly
@Paul in KY: Dumbest name for a cat I have ever heard. About the only human name I could think of that would be worse is John. How would you know it’s awesome anyways. It’s not your cat.
NickT
@furlyfly:
Given your own struggles with finding a name that doesn’t make you sound like your whining little asshole self….
eyelessgame
The thing that I really don’t understand:
– Rand Paul is an Objectivist.
– “Gimme, gimme, gimme” is, in fact, an exact restatement of the entire philosophy of Objectivism.
– Rand Paul accuses others of being Objectivist and claims this is a bad thing.
– Chris Christie is able to shame Rand Paul by accusing him, in turn, of the same Objectivism.
It’s almost as if the philosophy itself is odious or something, and that even Objectivists know how odious it is. But that would make them … dishonest, wouldn’t it?
Paul in KY
@furlyfly: Personally, I would think ‘furlyfly’ would be a stupider name. Since I am an avatiar to felines everywhere, I have mentally reached thru the eldrich cosmos to commune with Steve the Cat & can attest to his awesomeness.
I was going to try that with you, until the Yog Shuggoth popped in & said that would be a waste of time.
NickT
@eyelessgame:
I seem to remember Rand Paul had the habit of making his staff read Ayn Rand’s various excretions and bragged about it, until some of the fundies got upset because Crazy Proto-Grifter Lady didn’t like Christianity much. At which point, Baby Doc discovered his own deep devotion to Christianity. And it all ended happily ever after. Amen. And such.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@The Moar You Know: The only person I know who would be considered a success story didn’t have the surgery to lose weight, though she has lost some. Gastric bypass surgery often reverses type 2 diabetes. Last I heard, researchers were still scrambling to figure out why.
Anyway, she had lost several family members to diabetes complications, was pre-diabetic, and decided the risks were about the same with or without the surgery. It worked for her.
It’s the only situation where I would agree with someone looking into the surgery. The death rates may be as high as 1 in 5. We don’t have a good reporting system for malnutrition-related deaths, but there have been an awful lot of people dying 4-5 years after surgery of things that range from “could be malnutrition-related” to “usually are malnutrition-related”. (Wish I could find the cite for that, but it’s been a couple of years since I’ve needed to look this up.)
Mnemosyne
@The Moar You Know:
Binge eating disorders (ie binging without purging) are twice as common as either anorexia or bulimia (binging with purging), but you’d never know that from the way people talk about weight issues.
johnny aquitard
@cleek: Love how you lumped MI in with the deep south gop base. As in, that’s very astute. You’ve lived in MI some, obvlsy.
Hint for those who wonder: settlement patterns of the early to mid 20th century. It’ll also explain a lot of everything about Detroit too.
catclub
@NickT: Paul Ryan, not Rand Paul.
Not the goggle-eyed homunculus, but the dead eyed granny starver.
furlyfly
@Paul in KY: Feel free to pick my next name and I will gladly use it. As long as it’s not banned or filtered. The thing you fail to understand is that I really truly give zero fuks.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@furlyfly: I think it’s a great pseudonym. Maybe just capitalize it so it looks more proper?
Ted & Hellen
@magurakurin:
Why do you hate fat people?
Size-ist pig.
Ted & Hellen
@MeDrewNotYou:
Are any of the national Dems going to tell them, publicly? And if not, why not?
Paul in KY
@furlyfly: I know! That’s why I mentioned that above, cause I knew you wouldn’t give a fuk.
Let me know when you want to change your moniker & I’ll come up with a doozie.
Paul in KY
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: I just opined that it would make a stupid cat name. Now a properly capatalized online name for a presumably human entity, why I think it’s fine!
Ted & Hellen
@Paul in KY:
Oh god, of course not. But doing so could turn some purple states blue, turn blue states bluer, and give joy and comfort to those of us in the Democratic party who appreciate hearing actual truths spoken in public.
NickT
@catclub:
Same fart, different asshole. It’s funny how these soulless racist grifters all look alike, isn’t it?
NickT
@furlyfly:
Try:
sadlypredictable
That way, you can achieve truth in advertising as well.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@Paul in KY: Have I formally invited you to join the Cracker Pack? If so, did you give it any thought?
Paul in KY
@Ted & Hellen: See your point.
Paul in KY
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: I have not received an invitation. Besides you, who has been invited/is in?
Might have to invoke ‘The Groucho Rule’ ;-)
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@Paul in KY: The members list is secret, duh. Otherwise someone from the El Tiburon Group could compromise us and make us susceptible to a sustained and coordinated attack from Group A.
Paul in KY
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: Oh.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@Paul in KY: Yeah.
gorram
@Paul in KY: No, you all had your own brand of weird.