Via Paul Constant, here’s George Takei:
It’s been bubbling for some time, but the controversy over Russia’s draconian “gay propaganda” law has now boiled over.Last week, Russia’s Sports Minister confirmed that the country intends to enforce its laws against visiting LGBT athletes, trainers and fans, meaning anyone even so much as waving a rainbow flag (and I presume many men enthusiastically watching and dramatically commenting on figure skating) would be arrested, held for weeks and then deported.Given this position, the IOC must do the right thing, protect its athletes and the fans, and move the 2014 Winter Olympics out of Russia….
There have been urgent calls for boycotts of the Olympics and of Russian exports like vodka. These are understandable: It just doesn’t seem right to see any of our dollars flowing to that nation. But a boycott of the games would punish athletes who have trained for years to participate, and a boycott of Russian vodka isn’t going to effect the kind of change needed. Besides, with Russia’s confirmation that it will enforce its law, our LGBT athletes are in real danger, and their safety must be paramount…
NBC and the corporate sponsors of the Olympics should be paying close attention, too, and should get behind the “Move the Olympics” movement now, while there is still time to do so. If the Winter Olympics proceed in Sochi, Russia, all of the goodwill they have spent millions to build will evaporate in noisy protests, boycotts, and terrible publicity. I personally will be beating this particular drum loudly, as will many other LGBT actors, activists and allies. Trust me, if you are a corporate brand, you do not want to be associated with the Sochi Olympics….
There is a petition gathering strength demanding the Olympics be relocated to Vancouver, which played host in 2010. All of the facilities are still in good condition, so this would likely be the easiest of possible alternatives. If you agree, and I hope you do, please take a few moments to sign the petition here. With enough support, maybe the IOC and the sponsors will realize that this is a disaster in the making, and the best course is to move immediately and decisively to relocate the Winter Games of 2014.
Much more at the link.
From what I’ve seen, those LGBT athletes who’ve spoken out are not in favor of state boycotts — there’s a brief window for these guys to contend, and anyone competing at the Olympic level has already worked harder and made more sacrifices than most of us can understand. The “Jesse Owens 1936 / Mexico City 1968 ” option of using coverage of the games to proclaim LGBT human rights has been more popular. But if the safety of all the visitors, gay or merely gay-friendly, can’t be guaranteed, what then?
gogol's wife
I would love to see Putin get what’s coming to him. But I understand the athletes’ feelings. Why did they get this honor in the first place? (I don’t follow these things too closely, since I find the Olympics really boring.)
Mandalay
Which Olympics host could possibly guarantee the safety of all visitors?
There are arguments to be made for boycotting the Russian Olympics, but that isn’t one of them.
kindness
The US should still participate. I think we should change all our uniforms to be pink or rainbow.
kc
If all (or at least a substantial number) of American, Canadian, etc athletes wore rainbow flag pins . . . would the Russians really jail them all?
gbear
Yes.
Even if the Olympic guests and athletes don’t get assaulted, I’m sure the local yobs will step up their assault on the local GLBT population to make up for the lost opportunities. It’s too fucking dangerous to be gay there. We should be offering them asylum here.
raven
Nothing is guaranteed.
kc
@Mandalay:
No, but it’s not too much to ask that the Olympics host guarantee that a male athlete won’t be arrested and jailed for holding hands with his boyfriend.
c u n d gulag
As a 1st generation Russian-Ukrainian, I am ashamed of the country my family came from.
HELL YES, we need to make a point, and move the event to somewhere else.
Maybe several countries, if necessary.
I also read another interesting suggestion – and that is, during the opening ceremonies, if non-bigoted nations marched, not with their national flags, but rainbow flags, to embarrass Putin and the bigoted loons in Russia.
I like that suggestion – whether it’s in Russia, or some other country, or in several countries.
BGinCHI
@kindness: This. Maybe Nathan Lane could carry the flag.
Craigo
@Mandalay: At most Olympics, it’s not the host country’s security services that will threaten your safety.
Amir Khalid
@Mandalay:
The need to protect athletes, officials, media and fans from terrorists is one thing. What has never come up before now is the need to protect them from the host nation’s own law-enforcement officers.
? Martin
Well, I don’t disagree with Takei that this is a bad deal, but we’ve had Olympics in Berlin in 1936, in Moscow under the USSR, in China most recently. Boycotting Moscow didn’t achieve anything.
Ronnie Pudding
It’s too late to move the Olympics, or at least to do so without postponing them.
BTW, Putin isn’t exactly going against his people here.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/
Trollhattan
Wait, I thought we weren’t supposed to go there because Lindsay Graham said, “Snowden!”
I’m so confused.
Anyway, if we go and kick ass, that’s the best thing. Does Missy Franklin skate at all?
Mike Lamb
@? Martin: Did any of those countries threaten to arrest participants? There’s a big difference between recommending a boycott/changing venue based on generalized humanitarian concerns and recommending action when the host nation is threatening to arrest participants, visitors, etc. etc.
NCSteve
@? Martin: Sure it did. It got the L.A. Olympics in 1984 boycotted by the USSR and its, ahem, allies in L.A., leading to the USA picking up huge numbers of medals! USA! USA! USA! F**k yeah!
Roger Moore
Moving the Olympics is not a practical alternative this late in the process. It’s not just building all the facilities, but also making sure they’re available, there are enough temporary workers to deal with the influx of people, the hotels are free, etc., etc., etc. It’s a huge logistical undertaking and not something that can be thrown together with 6 months notice. I’m sure that part of the reason Russia has started to make noises about this now rather than a year ago is that they wanted to wait until they were sure it was too late to move the games.
Yatsuno
@gogol’s wife: The Olympics were awarded long before they passed this series of anti-gay laws, so it wasn’t an issue at the time. Russia also refuses to change its anti-HIV law, which the IOC got China to do before the Games were held there. I think Vancouver would want a pretty penny for the move, but they could manage to host again. Plus i’d be 2 hours away!
Craigo
The real countermeasure is for as many members of the IOC as possible to publicly state that they will never support another Russian bid if any of their athletes or spectators are harmed due to these laws.
gbear
@c u n d gulag:
I’m afraid it’s like trying to embarrass Teatards. There will more likely be rage than embarassment. I see what’s going on in Russia right now as very much open season on GLBT. Violence will not be punished.
It wasn’t so long ago that straight men would think he could assault gay men on the streets of Minneapolis and not even feel like he had to run away. A cop would walk up to the man and he’s just say ‘He’s a f@g’. At least in Minneapolis, the guy would be arrested and the story would shock people. In Russia, it’s OK to beat the f@g up. The cops will arrest the f@g. We shouldn’t hold events in a place where this can happen.
MattR
The Stoli vodka boycott is pretty stupid. Beyond reinforcing the stereotype that Russians are all hard core vodka drinkers, the actual Stoli vodka sold here in the USA has been made in Latvia for quite a while and Stoli has been a supporter of LGBT initiatives.
@Roger Moore: Kinda like what China did with human rights violations around the 2008 games. IIRC, they were happy to pay lip service to demands that they make changes up until it became too late for the IOC to consider alternatives, This is why the better move might be to also start pressuing FIFA to move the 2018 World Cup out of Russia. (Not that I think that pressure will be effective unless there are major problems at the 2014 Olympics)
Suzanne
@kindness: Concur.
We’re here, we’re queer, we’re winning all the gold medals.
Mandalay
@kc:
It definitely is too much to ask if it is against the law in Russia (and I don’t know whether that is the case or not).
Suppose the Olympics was in Saudi Arabia. Men holding hands would be perfectly normal, but can American women claim that they are not obliged to cover their head because they don’t have to do that in the United States? Should Europeans be able to claim that they are entitled to be topless on the beach in the United States because nobody cares in Europe?
You can’t demand “rights” based on your domestic laws when you visit another country.
? Martin
@Mike Lamb:
Neither the USSR nor China indicated they’d change their policies toward visitors. I know several visitors were arrested during the Chinese olympics for displaying pro-Tibet materials.
balconesfault
How do the Russians deal with the 2-man luge?
http://www.seagullscalling.com/copper/albums/userpics/10001/normal_two_man_luge.jpg
kc
@Mandalay:
I really doubt that Saudi Arabia would ever bid to host the Olympics, due to fear of infidels polluting its holy sites, but if it does, I can’t believe the IOC would actually award that country the games, unless some massive reform takes place.
raven
@Yatsuno: Mitt could handle it!
KG
I’m pretty sure the last thing that Russia wants during the Olympics (and this is their first time hosting since the 80 Summer Games, if I’m not mistaken), is to cause an international incident by arresting a gay foreign national during the Winter Games. It would lead every news broadcast the world over, especially if it was an athlete or coach. The Russians are not irrational actors – petty, cruel, selfish, and occasionally dumb, sure, but not necessarily irrational. They have to know that if they arrest someone there for being gay during the Olympics, they are going to take a massive hit in the international community.
Craigo
@Mandalay: Of course, the Olympics will never be in Saudi Arabia because the IOC realizes that they will not recognize the human rights of foreign athletes and spectators.
Ronnie Pudding
This is why the better move might be to also start pressuring FIFA to move the 2018 World Cup out of Russia.
This. And before that, there are Champions League matches. Not finals, but Russian clubs could not be allowed to play home matches.
Mandalay
@kc:
Well in 2022 Qatar get to host the (soccer) World Cup – a sporting event that is bigger than the Olympics.
Never underestimate the corruptibility of sports officials.
Michael G
Moving the Olympics to punish Russia is pointless and honestly counterproductive. If you want Russia to become more accepting of modern western thought, you should want to expose them to more of it, not less.
The US LGBT movement started making progress when everyday people started coming out to their friends and neighbors, moving the concept of “gay person” from abstract and ‘weird’ to concrete and mundane.
Also: Dudes in Russia hold hands all the time–they also walk down the street with arms around each other, and kiss each other. There is a ton of stuff they do that would be stereotypical “gay” behavior in this country.
(P.S. If we honestly think that athletes are in danger, then I’m all for moving the games. But if we’re just attempting to change minds, a boycott is not the way to go.)
p.a.
@raven: a money transfer to Putin’s private account and this can all go away…
? Martin
@Mandalay: Yeah, I still don’t understand that decision. 80% of the population of Qatar are temporary workers. They have damn near zero infrastructure and damn near no building codes. (Friend worked on a civil engineering project there for a while.)
Jane2
The US isn’t exactly the poster country for gay rights, and saying “yeah, but we’re not as bad as them” doesn’t cut it. And no country’s policies have changed due to an Olympic boycott, so exactly what is the point?
raven
@Jane2: Ding!
Cargo
If Russia was arresting, torturing, jailing and allowing skinheads to beat the shit out of/kill Jews instead of LGBTs, this wouldn’t even be slightly in dispute.
Amir Khalid
@Roger Moore:
You’re probably right that the timing of this was picked to foreclose the IOC’s option to relocate the Games. And it seems the only way around such a tactic is to pick a reserve host city, which as you say is hugely unpractical. And cancellation would entail a buttload of lawsuits around the world to apportion the financial burden.
@Craigo:
It might be a decade or more before there’s another Russian bid to oppose.
But all the same, no Olympic host city or nation should be allowed to threaten the security of participants and fans, a clear violation of Olympic ideals. I’d work the alternative host city idea if, say, Vancouver is willing to take it on again, but as a last resort the IOC should be prepared to cancel the 2014 Games outright.
The Sailor
I’m surprised at the comments here. Of course the Olympics should be moved, and if they started now they could easily accomplish it.
Russia’s lying, two faced remarks are reason enough. Putin said there would be no problem, and was immediately contradicted by his minions. Putin is a dictator, so he was obviously just paying lip service.
IRT 1936: Jesse Owens wasn’t arrested for being black.
Ruckus
@KG:
And I don’t think they care. They are a big enough country either with raw materials that others want or the ability to purchase stuff that other countries want to sell. And I don’t think they care that we think they are wrong. We have a long history with them where they thought everything we did was wrong, do you think that has changed a lot?
Six months may not be enough time but you have to ask yourself if staying is worth it. And I don’t think it is. We aren’t going to change their minds with anything other than shame. A boycott will only do for them what 1984 did for us. More medals.
The only way to make a positive statement is to move the Olympics even if it is impractical. Or to just suck it up and not give them any reason to arrest anyone. Because they will. Why do you think they gave Snowden asylum? Because they care? No, it was purely a political move on their part, it makes us look bad.
Moving is the only answer with any possible positive results.
Ronnie Pudding
@Mandalay:
Qatar isn’t Saudi Arabia. Women can vote there, for example.
Mandalay
@Craigo:
Yet the IOC decided that having the Olympics in Russia was fine.
What human rights would not be recognized in Saudi Arabia? Do you mean the “right” to drink alcohol? Do you mean the “right” of women not to cover their head? Do you mean the “right” of non-Muslims to enter Mecca and Medina?
Exactly what “human rights” did you have in mind?
kindness
@p.a.: How about we just lard the press with ‘intercepted’ emails (with hot pics) going from Putin to his favorite boys and back?
dedc79
While we’re posing olympics-related questions: Say Cole and three other front pagers quit their jobs today and spent the next 4+years doing nothing but exercising and practicing at bobsledding. Think they could qualify for the next winter olympics?
Emerald
@KG: Exactly. The Russians are being idiots, saying that they’ll enforce their obscene law at their olympics.
Are they going to arrest thousands of visitors, and dozens if not hundreds of athletes? Are they going to arrest Johnny Weir during or right after his skate? (Because you know he’s going to stage a protest.)
Even Hitler had the sense to stop his anti-Semetic antics during his Olympics. He took down the signs and stopped the harassment for two weeks, at least in Berlin. That strategy worked, too. Most visitors went away thinking that things really weren’t so bad for the Jews there.
I’m certain that the LGBT athletes and many straight athletes and Western visitors will defy this law as openly as possible. Let’s see Putin arrest them all, with the eyes of the world upon him.
He’ll back down.
Bob In Portland
@Craigo: I like Craig’s suggestion. How about this?
It’s too late to move the Olympics, but I think it would be great for athletes from all nations to wear pink or rainbow on their uniforms to show solidarity. And if anything untoward happens to a gay athlete then Russia is banned from hosting future Olympics.
Putin’s a dick but he’s not a fool.
max
The “Jesse Owens 1936 / Mexico City 1968 ” option of using coverage of the games to proclaim LGBT human rights has been more popular.
As it should be.
But if the safety of all the visitors, gay or merely gay-friendly, can’t be guaranteed, what then?
Rephrase needed: if the Russians are going to be arresting athletes just for being gay, we have a problem. In said event, a boycott of some sort becomes necessary.
max
[‘Boycotting because of politics is a bad idea; boycotting to protect your athletes is perfectly sensible.’]
Mandalay
@Jane2:
This.
Some here seem to forget how backward this country was with regard to gay rights just a generation ago, and there is still a long way to go.
noodler
Just evacuated from Embassy Sanaa, safe on deck at Ramstein, Germany. Crazy yemen stuff in the news of late, harrowing days lately.
Ronnie Pudding
I’m surprised at the comments here. Of course the Olympics should be moved, and if they started now they could easily accomplish it
No, they couldn’t. You really have no clue. Hell, just getting Visas for all the travelers (athletes, coaches, etc.) is a huge deal. What about the fans who have bought tickets and presumably made their travel and lodging plans?
Mandalay
@Ronnie Pudding:
I don’t think Americans are on very solid ground for dishing out sanctimonious lectures on voting rights.
As another poster pointed out, saying
Amir Khalid
@Emerald:
And if he doesn’t?
kc
@Mandalay:
Okay, you know what, fuck you.
kc
@Emerald:
Wait. Johnny Weir is gay?
Ruckus
@Emerald:
He’ll back down.
So you think we should go like nothing is going to happen?
What if you are wrong?
These are Russian laws, not ours. We and everyone else would be in their country, subject to their laws. And the laws not only have support of a lot of their citizens, they have the physical support of a lot of them also.
What if you are wrong?
kc
@Mandalay:
Hell, being American hasn’t stopped you from being a sanctimonious prick.
Emerald
@max: Russia doesn’t arrest people for being gay, just for advocating for gays. (And soon they say they’ll start taking children away from gay couples–but they won’t arrest the couples unless they say something in their own defense.)
So that keeps the arrest threat open to everybody! No discrimination! Straight folks are equally as vulnerable. If you wave a rainbow flag, or wear a rainbow pin, that’s breaking the law.
Anybody can do it.
And should. By the thousands. At the Olympics. In front of cameras. Every day.
ceece
glad to hear you’re ok, noodler. Must have been serious to evacuate you all.
Ronnie Pudding
If we’re wrong, they lose the World Cup. Maybe some other events. Boycotts will take off.
Most countries use the Olympics to make themselves appear better than they really are. Possibly Russia will go in the opposite direction, but they’ll pay a price.
Roger Moore
@Mandalay:
Saudi Arabia does not allow anyone to be seen in public wearing clothes like those routinely worn by both male and female athletes in many Olympic events. Whether you consider that to be a human rights issue or not, it is certainly a practical issue that would interfere with them hosting the Olympics.
Emerald
@Ruckus:@Amir Khalid:
If I’m wrong and he doesn’t back down, then thousands of Olympic visitors will be arrested and deported. But those who choose to defy the law will know that going in. I’m positive that plenty of good people will be willing to do it. They don’t throw you in the gulag. They just detain you and throw you out of their country.
And then Russia will have to deal with all the publicity that flows from their actions. It’ll be the major story of the games, one that will go down in history for generations.
He’ll back down.
Dee Loralei
@noodler: Glad to hear you’re ok for now. Have been concerned when I heard of the closings.
Botsplainer
What are they planning to do on male figure skater costumes?
kc
@Emerald:
Yep, that would be great. Easy for me to say, because I won’t be there. Though if I could afford it, I would be, with rainbow flag prominently displayed.
Heliopause
Not opposed in principle to organizing this boycott attempt, but the selectiveness of it is rather head-spinning. How many countries on the planet aren’t engaging in a human rights crime as bad or worse than the Russian persecution of LGBTs? Take Canada, for instance, the proposed substitute venue. In addition to its tacit (and sometimes active) support for all of the USA’s mass-murdering imperial misadventures, it is currently throwing itself headlong into the ultimate human rights atrocity, the potential destruction of the entire species for the sake of short-term economic gain.
The Dangerman
@Emerald:
Same as China/Tibet; I don’t recall a lot of calls for boycott over Beijing.
I am not a kook
Pink triangle pins for all might be nice.
Ruckus
@Emerald:
And you think mass protests in Russia will be received as well there as they are here? That everyone will protest and therefore it will be too big to do anything?
Maybe they won’t do anything because it is possible that it would be to disruptive of international politics and relations.
Do you think a country should allow outsiders to come in and disrupt their internal politics? Because that’s exactly not how most countries would perceive mass protests from outsiders.
Ronnie Pudding
Honestly, my biggest fear is that there will be a handful of arrests of visitors and it won’t get any media. If there are going to be arrests, have enough of them so NBC has to cover it (easy for me to say from my couch, I suppose).
Emerald
@The Dangerman: True, but they were sensible enough to not enforce it at their Olympics.
kc
@Ruckus:
She’s talking about wearing rainbow pins, not marching in the streets.
Ruckus
@Emerald:
OK then Emerald has spoken.
Olympics in Russia!
If you can see that well into the future how many medals will the US take home?
noodler
@Dee Loralei: pretty hairy past few days, and yemen seems to be regressing. going into the eid festival as well. hate to leave my local yemeni staff there, they all do such good work for us. i am enjoying the work that I am doing, but it’s a hard environment.
beer time somewhere
Ain’t no way they’ll move the Games. If that happened Putin would demand his money back from the IOC members who voted for Sochi.
lojasmo
@Mandalay:
Well, they can pretty much be kept safe from THE VERY GOVERNMENT HOSTING THE GAMES
Pedants, how do they work?
Steeplejack
@Mandalay:
I think it’s clear she means “guaranteeing safety” as in “not being actively persecuted by the sponsoring authorities.”
jacy
I think the logistics make it nearly impossible to move at this date. I still think they should. (Nearly impossible is not the same as impossible.)
But I don’t think they will be moved.
My fervent hope is that there are as many strong protests and shows of solidarity by athletes, coaches, sponsors, fans, visitors, media, hell, anybody, that there won’t be an hour of coverage where somebody isn’t talking about it. Make it the LGBT Olympics. Make it a PR nightmare for Russia and Putin. Make it a PR nightmare for the IOC. The best thing that you can do at this point is play it for exposure.
I was just a kid, but I still remember Tommie Smith and John Carlos at the 1968 Olympics. And I remember my mom making sure I understood what was happening. And I’ve always tried to keep in my heart and teach to my children what she told me: when you see injustice, NEVER BE SILENT.
Emerald
@Ruckus: I strongly doubt there would be any mass protests in Russia. Most Russians, apparently, agree with Putin on this issue or he wouldn’t be doing it.
I’m talking about thousands of visitors and athletes defying this law at the Olympics. Putin says they’ll enforce their law there.
OK, do it, and take the consequences.
Russia will never get another Olympics.
(Unless, of course, as @Ronnie Pudding points out, our media refuses to cover it. Still, I have no doubt that Johnny Weir will have a strategy ready to deal with that problem.)
The Dangerman
@Emerald:
And therein lies what will happen in Russia.
Problem solved.
Ruckus
@kc:
Read the Russian laws. Tell me that wouldn’t be considered advocating a gay agenda.
You go to a foreign country and openly violate their laws and see how they feel about it.
And they don’t always just deport you. They may hold, convict and fine/imprison you. Then deport you. They probably wouldn’t but they can.
kc
@Ruckus:
I didn’t say it wouldn’t be. That’s the whole fucking point.
Wearing a rainbow flag pin is just not on the same scale as a massive march.
lojasmo
@Mandalay:
It never has been in the entire history of the Olympic Games. I suspect there’s a reason for that. A reason similar to the one behind the argument the olympics shouldn’t be held in Russia this time.
Think about it.
jacy
@Ruckus:
It’s not like robbing a bank. It’s protesting something awful. Conformity for the sake of conformity is evil. If people never broke the law in protest of moral injustice…well, fill in the blank with any number of things. Change doesn’t just happen on its own, you know, people have to do lots of uncomfortable and dangerous things to bring it about.
kc
@lojasmo:
Yeah. And as others have pointed out, the Russian anti-gay law at issue is relatively new. It was passed AFTER Russia won the Olympics bid.
lojasmo
@Mandalay:
How many female athletes will be playing in the World Cup games?
? Martin
@jacy:
The games start in 6 months. Who the fuck do you think can organize, construct venues, hire workers, find hotels (for all the people that already have tickets/reservations/flights to Sochi) and do all of that in 6 months? There’s a reason the games were awarded 6 YEARS ago. And with the recent push to temporary venues, it’s not like they can even go back to Vancouver, who tore down a number of the facilities needed.
Why is it the IOCs fault? The law was just passed a few months ago. The IOC voted 6 years ago. Short of flat out canceling the games, what do you expect them to do?
Trollhattan
Speaking of sports, despite their long, long journey through the NFL wilderness, Raiders fans will always be Raiders fans.
http://www.sacbee.com/2013/08/06/5627398/northern-calif-hardware-clerk.html#storylink=cpy
Baud
Я здесь, я странно, привыкнуть к нему.
The Sailor
@Ronnie Pudding:
We can do a war in 6 months, we can easily move the Olympics. Difficult, yes. Impossible, no.
Why don’t we ask Canada if they want to host them?
It seems like since it’s not your problem, you don’t give a shit.
Don’t penalize the athletes, penalize Russia. And yeah, losing a billion dollars and world approbation would mean something to them. Holding the Olympics there would just give them reason to keep fucking up.
LABiker
They should move the games to Utah where the gays are welcome.
? Martin
@The Sailor:
We can do a war in 6 months because we have 1.5 million trained members of the military and another 800,000 trained reservists, and we’ve gamed out damn near every conceivable war already. You know who has all of the trained Olympics staff along with the Olympic plan? Russia. Nobody else. There is no crack Olympic Special Forces team we can parachute into Switzerland to set up a new games.
And what of the tens of thousands of people that have airline tickets, hotel reservations, event tickets? Just, fuck em?
? Martin
I blame (Michelle) Obama.
accidentalfission
I hope LBGT athletes show up and speak out at every opportunity. The opening ceremony, the awards podium, at the top of the 90 meter ski jump, the starting gate for the men’s and women’s downhill (for anyone who’s never gone over 30 mph on skis, lemme tell ya, that takes guts–they hit 70mph and have even been clocked at 90mph) and everywhere else.
Let this be a Jesse Owens/Tommie Smith/John Carlos moment.
Robert
Putin has point blank said the anti-gay law will apply to anyone visiting Russia for the Olympics. His people have delivered missives explaining that only straight athletes actually meet the ideal of the Olympics and for the sanctity of sports they will protect the games from gays (which they conveniently refer to as pedophiles every other time they’re mentioned in any speech about gay rights and/or restrictions). They’re not backing down. They were encouraged to back down and their response was to tell the world to pounce off.
The law did not exist when they got the bid, but it does exist now and they swear that they will enforce it. That means if they suspect anyone entering Russia to see or participate in the Olympics is gay, they can be held for two weeks without charges for maybe being gay. Then their asses will be shipped back where they came from or they’ll be charged with being gay and face the Russian courts.
Violet
I love Johnny Weir. He’s so fabulous. Can’t wait to see what he comes up with to deal with this. His coach is Ukrainian. Don’t know how that figures into this issue.
gbear
@Emerald:
From everything I’ve read, being gay in public is considered advocating.
If Russia does start detaining gay and gay-friendly visitors (or gay and gay-friendly Russian citizens) during the Olympics, people should pack their bags and leave. Do not pass go. Fuck the Olympics.
Gex
The IOC has said that they are using quiet diplomacy. Which makes me wonder…wouldn’t any effort to talk to Russia about changing their rules or suspending them for the Olympics be advocating for gays and thus a violation of that law?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Trollhattan: We still have Raiders fans here in LA, see them at every UCLA-SC game, they’re not the ones dressed in blue and gold.
The Sailor
@? Martin:
Bullshit. It’s a one off, no one knows how a show is going to go on a one off.
Canada has more recent experience than Russia, and they’ve done it before.
Don’t you think every airline in the world, (except Russian ones), could figure out how to change tickets in 6 months?
Percysowner
@Michael G:
I’m old enough that I remember the massacre of the Israeli athletes in Munich 1972. That was in a country that never expressed any desire to harm those athletes and who were, presumably, trying to insure the safety of all the athletes at the Olympics. So yes, I think in a country that has criminalized even the discussion of homosexuality there is a real danger to the athletes, not only from the government acting to arrest or harm them but from the police deciding to look the other way when “the people” decide to act on their homophobia.
I don’t think the games can be moved on this short a notice, but I hope that every country brings their OWN security for their athletes because I really don’t think the Russian government can be relied on to protect them.
jacy
@? Martin:
Whoa!
I’m saying it’s nearly impossible — I should know, my brother has worked tech logistic for the Olympics for nearly 20 years now. I guess I should have been more delicate in saying that I think they should move it, but that’s purely an ideological standpoint on my part. I think people should do a lot of things that aren’t practically possible. I’m actually pretty much on the same page as you are as for the reality of it. (In other words *I* think in a perfect world they should move the games. I’m fully aware we don’t live in a perfect world. But if something were to happen to the Russia, like, I don’t know, an act of the Elder Gods sank it into the sea or something, then they’d hold the Olympics someplace else, regardless of the near impossibility.) Again, my feelings about moving the games are purely from an ideological standpoint (maybe think of it the way Repbulicans thinks of economics….)
The part of my post I meant to emphasize was the protest part. Regardless of my fantasy of moving the games, they won’t be moved, so how do we (as a world community) move forward with the hand we’re dealt?
Long Tooth
Games in Greece every four years, that’s all I ask. The Games birthplace should be its permanent home.
All contrary arguments aside, think of the proposal in human terms: why not throw the beleaguered Greek people an economic lifeline?
Or in these terms: Mitt Romney, the man who might well have been elected in 2012 but for the Grace of Almighty God, made his political bones as fuhrer of the Salt Lake City Games. No itinerant Games, no Romney, no close call.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Gex:
“Comrade Putin, I understand that your cultural mores are different than others. But just how long do you really want to be frozen out of international figure skating competitions?”
The Sheriff's A Ni-
“Look, Vladimir, we had the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City and the religious figures there make your patriarchs look like Berlin disco dancers. Cut ’em a break, will ya?”
Ruckus
@jacy:
I know what it is.
Do you all think that Putin would not act in any protest of his countries laws? Especially one that was just pasted and has huge support.
One doesn’t need to have huge marches to violate this law. Would arresting even a few people have massive international repercussions? Yes it would. The question is – Does Putin care? My opinion is he does not. And he has public support.
You want to protest Russia’s law? Your protest of any kind in Russia is not going to have the same effect as it does here and it has real risks that out weigh any possible good.
Left Coast Tom
@? Martin:
There’s also the matter of the people who have airline tickets, hotel reservations, etc., at Whistler expecting the facilities to be available for mere mortals.
gogol's wife
@Yatsuno:
But hadn’t they already murdered people for reporting on Chechnya, and thrown someone into prison camp for years because he planned a political campaign against Putin, and passed laws against insulting the Orthodox religion, etc., etc., etc.?
The Moar You Know
Putin doesn’t really have an option here; his people want this. Very badly. Showdown with the West, killing off some fags. Two for one. He either can get out in front of it or get run over by it. Being the smart guy he is, he’s getting out in front of it.
gogol's wife
@Baud:
If I translate that back into English, it reads, “I’m here, I’m strangely, to get used to him.”
I don’t think they’ll get it! But at least you won’t get arrested.
gogol's wife
@gogol’s wife:
Which obviously is not to say that China hasn’t done much worse. But I guess that’s another discussion.
JD_Rhoades
@BGinCHI:
Maybe Nathan Lane could carry the flag.
Wait, Nathan Lane’s gay?
jacy
@Ruckus:
On the contrary, an outcome purpose of the protests could well be Putin arresting foreign nationals, detaining them, deporting them. You seem to think in advocating protests, I think Putin is suddenly going to turn into a big, cuddly stuffed animal. Er, no. And the point is not whether or not Putin cares, the point is you do what’s right because it’s right. You stand up for what’s right, regardless of the consequences. It’s not meant to change the minds of Putin or the Russians who agree with the laws, it’s meant to change the minds of other people, people in other places, people in the United States. It’s meant to show that demonizing people for their sexual orientation is not fucking acceptable, regardless of who is doing it. Full stop.
JD_Rhoades
@Robert:
only straight athletes actually meet the ideal of the Olympics
You mean the games that began in Ancient Greece and featured guys wrestling naked?
Jane2
@? Martin: And just who would pay for this, outraged Americans not all that interested in the fact that their own record on gay rights isn’t exactly stellar? Or maybe all those sporting organizations that have been vocal in support of gay rights…oh wait….
Roger Moore
@jacy:
I’m skeptical that they would do that. There are some things that are close enough to impossible that they wouldn’t bother to try, but would relax the rules instead. If Sochi were to be nuked by militant gay activists tomorrow, I think they’d give themselves some extra time to arrange the replacement site, and people would cut them some slack because it was a genuine emergency. If they moved it for political reasons, even if they’re good, admirable political reasons, they wouldn’t get the same kind of slack.
Narcissus
It’s sort of quaint that people think the tremendous amounts of money involved in the Olympic games are going to be jeopardized just to protect LGBT people of any nationality from anything.
Ruckus
@jacy:
That’s all nice and well. But you are advocating for others to break Russian law. They are the one’s that will suffer, not you. And do you think that is going to change minds that don’t agree with our views about gays?
Doing the right thing is not always cut and dried, protest and be arrested.
The IOC moving the Olympics would be a much more symbolic and much more useful than what would be considered a gesture by many. The PR from that would be far more ranging. The fact that I would be amazed if it happens is beside the fact, a rather prestigious international organization making that kind of stand? That would move gay rights much farther than a few arrests that most certainly would have no positive effect in Russia.
Ruckus
@Narcissus:
This.
Joe Buck
It would be preferable to get the Russians to back off their threat to enforce laws against freedom of expression than to demand that the Olympics be moved; it isn’t going to happen at this late date, and LGBT activists will be drowned out by the authoritarians demanding that the Olympics be boycotted because of Snowden.
ruemara
@Jane2: The US isn’t a poster for gay rights? What do you call all those things they’re finally getting now?
fuckwit
The analogy to 1936 is quite apt. There’s a pogrom on right now in Russia against gay people. If actual competitors got arrested or otherwise hassled, it’d be quite a stink.
I’d say they should move the damn games somewhere more enlightened. Canada seems a fine choice.
Spike
@? Martin:
This. For example, the curling and speed skating venues (and a third site used for a practice and training rink during the games) were all repurposed as community rec centres. And the broadcast media centre is now part of the convention centre, which is booked pretty much solid year-round. And I can’t imagine what it would take to convert Whistler back into a games venue on such short notice.
LeftCoastTom
@ruemara: Well, yeah, but Jane2 posted above that it doesn’t matter if the US is further along, all that matters is perfection. So, while here in CA we have same-sex marriage (finally joining several other states), in MS things aren’t so good, so none of us should complain about Russia legislating against the thought crime of supporting gay rights. Because imprisoning thought criminals is no different than having unfinished business, I guess.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@ruemara: the whole “since you’re not perfect, you can’t criticize others” idea is basically a get-out-of-jail free card for the worst actors.
gbear
Video of large military gang attacking one scrawny kid at Joe My God. The video already has over a million views.
FlyingToaster
@Mandalay:
Fuck, yes. And because it would be impossible to do their jobs, i.e., compete with freakish scarves on.
@Mandalay:
It’s more than covering your head, asswipe. Unless you’re inside an overseas enclave, you have to cover your head, arms, legs. Normal athletic attire for females would not work. Period.
It’s the right not to be a monotheist.
It’s the right not to subscribe to the Wahabist view of the Universe, whatever it may be this week.
Saudi wouldn’t bid for the Olympics, or World Cup, or anything, because they don’t want non-Muslim foreigners stirring up even more trouble than they’ve already got with the hajj. Turkey or Morocco might well want to bid eventually; they’re Hague Convention signatories and their governments are not (currently) in thrall of the Wahabists or their local equivalent.
Russia would be well served NOT to enforce anything within the Olympic Village or frankly within Sochi. Foreigners with cameras will be every-fucking-where and it will just be an embarassment.
SRW1
Too late to do anything about the 2014 Winter Olympics. But Russia is also gonna host the 2018 soccer World Cup. Maybe the international footall community and FIFA might be up to exert some pressure? Ah, Sep Blatter!
xenos
@Emerald:
While German Jews were not allowed to compete, a number of Jews did compete and win medals. They were not subject to arrest for being Jewish or advocating Jewish rights. Jesse Owens did not have to fear being arrested for blackness while at the Olympics, either. And any American athlete or fan who supported Jewish or Negro rights was not subject to arrest. I suppose their was a risk of street-thugs finding you and beating you up walking in Berlin, but not a threat of official arrest and prosecution.
Andrey
@FlyingToaster: The problem is, Russia basically doesn’t give a flying fuck about being embarrassed.
Radok
@Violet: Last I heard, Johnny wasn’t planning on doing anything protest-wise.
wildweasels
@Mandalay: Why should I conform the belief of someone else. From what privilege? No, I will not