It is beyond dispute that (a) America has a less-than-perfect record on supporting gay rights, even today; and (b) lots of countries, probably a majority of the globe right now, are even worse. But only one country is (as of this writing) hosting the 2014 Winter Olympics. And that country is getting more intolerant, not less. Trigger warning: this post from The Verge is so disturbing, I couldn’t bring myself to excerpt more than the title:
Russia’s new neo-Nazi sport: terrorizing gay youth online
As Vladimir Putin pushes anti-gay agenda, vigilante movements gain momentum on social media
And the Great Russian People are willing to be just as brutal towards any group that’s “not Our Kind”, with a level of enthusiastic state & social participation that our own TeaPartiers can only dream about. Mark Ames at NSFWCorp wants you to know how “Snowden’s Savior Announces Plans To Build 83 “Concentration Camps” Across Russia”:
Last week I wrote about the mass-sweeps of migrant workers by Moscow security forces, who have been busy rounding up dark-skinned out-of-towners by the thousands, herding them into tent camps rife with reports of abuse. Now the Federal Migration Service (FMS) — the agency that gave Edward Snowden his refugee asylum papers last week— has announced plans to open up 83 “concentration camps” across Russia.
The FMS — run by an old KGB comrade of Vladimir Putin’s — also announced it’s looking to hire 4,700 guards and staff to run the camps, which are based on the makeshift tent camps in Moscow currently housing up to 1000 migrant workers from Vietnam and the Muslim republics of Central Asia, causing outrage among local journalists and activists.
It’s hard to tell just how many thousands of migrants have been rounded up so far. There have been at least two large-scale round-ups — one at Cherkizovsky market, targeting people from the mostly-Muslim North Caucasus; another raid near Ulitsa Irtyshskaya, where hundreds of mostly Vietnamese migrant workers are currently being held under guard in an open-air camp, exposed to the elements. Mass-roundups in some Moscow suburbs over the past few days netted over 400 migrants in Lobnya and 600 in Dolgoprudniy, mostly citizens of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan.
In Moscow and Petersburg, Russian chauvinists have been taking the initiative themselves, carrying out “Russian cleansings” of dark-skinned migrant workers from local open markets, targeting dark-skinned (mostly Muslim) migrants mainly from the North Caucasus and Central Asia. Police have arrested 20 so far on charges of “hooliganism,” but they haven’t stopped the skinhead raids from continuing unabated. In the past, coordinated skinhead attacks have been linked to local police officials….
Opposition activists and journalists are already calling the camps “GULAGs.” Some are openly worrying that the real purpose of these new detention camps — especially the 83 camps announced over the weekend — is to prepare for future mass-roundups should the anti-Putin movement explode again. The Kremlin was shocked by the size and scale of the protests that appeared seemingly out of nowhere in December 2011, when tens or hundreds of thousands of Russians poured out into the streets. Russians are supposed to be docile; it turns out they’re a lot less docile than we are, in the face of far scarier state tyranny. Just a few weeks ago, thousands took to the streets in Moscow and other cities to protest the five year prison term for opposition leader Alexei Navalny, in a clearly rigged trial…
You’ve got (just under) 48 hours to read the whole thing, with the incentive that Mr. Ames and his Russian correspondents despise Edward Snowden even more than the most anti-Snowden BJ commentor..
Additional reading (because commentor lamnh36 mentioned this last night): Julia Ioffe, in TNR, wishes Lawrence O’Donnell had shut up and let her explain:
Vladimir Putin is not omnipotent. He does not control everything that happens in the Russian Federation, a vast and often inhospitable landmass that spans 10 time zones…
Putin does not orchestrate, he reacts. Putin is no chess player. He is a knee-jerk, short-sighted little tyrant. Don’t give him credit where credit isn’t due.
Americans, especially Americans who have never been to Russia, overestimate the abilities of both Putin and the Russians…
I am not a Putin apologist. I think he and his people do bad things, like kill people and fleece the country for its wealth. But neither do I think he’s oppressing the Russian masses. He is their most extreme and natural, their most post-Soviet manifestation.
Baud
We haven’t had a good pogrom in a while.
J.Ty
Oi, what a disaster. Hope my, um, gay black American visiting scholar stays safe…
Feebog
Rounding up the brown people? Where do they think they are, Alabama?
Joe Buck
Go read the article: it’s not about rounding up gays, but rather what Google Translate renders as “illegal migrants”, or “illegal immigrants” in American. We also have internment camps for such folks, and far more of them. We have a much higher proportion of our population in prison than they do.
Yes, Russia is disturbingly anti-gay at this point and is moving in a fascist direction, but on issues other than gay rights it is getting harder to tell us from them. And it is laughable for the US government to lecture any nation on human rights, or to get all righteous about extradition when we are sheltering several South American ex-dictators from trial in their countries (not to mention a CIA agent who has been convicted of kidnapping in Italy).
Roger Moore
It seems to me that these are not mutually exclusive options.
SatanicPanic
Good work IOC, putting the Olympics there. Can Uzbekistan be next?
raven
@Joe Buck: Delta is ready when you are.
jo6pac
There is other ways to look at this even Shock Doctrine covered what happened in Russia and then again we only have to look at the role we had in bring paid for Yestin http://www.abebooks.com/book-
search/isbn/9780141024530/bx/sortby/2/n/200000237/?cm_mmc=ggl-_-USA_ISBNDF_425-_-9780141024530-_-the%20shock%20doctrine .
Yes Putin isn’t kind person like the present of the usa potus but if we care about Amerika we should take the time to look around.
David Koch
“Vladimir Putin is not omnipotent.”
tell that to Alexander Litvinenko and Viktor Yushchenko and the 56 journalists murdered in russia..
gogol's wife
I think that some mention should be made of the thousands of people who have turned to the streets to protest Putin’s regime, sometimes in freezing cold, and always in some danger, over the past year or so.
Anne Laurie
@gogol’s wife: Yes, that’s why I included the last paragraph of my excerpt, thankyou:
You didn’t even have to click over — but you might want to, now.
David Koch
“But neither do I think he’s oppressing the Russian masses.”
You can always count on “the new republic” to hire an idiot.
Putin put the female punk rock band puzzy-riot in prison for simply singing a protest song. Is imprisoning women for singing a song not oppression?
Yatsuno
OT: RIP Karen.
Mandalay
That linked clip of Lawrence O’Donnell’s behavior shows what a pompous, smug, bullying, condescending, nasty prick he has become.
He is no different and no better than Bill O’Reilly as a presenter. Just a complete asswipe, and a perfect example of what is wrong with our news media. And I say that as someone who agrees with most of his political views.
ChrisNYC
Not sure Ames despises Snowden. He does despise Greenwald. Due to GG’s calling him a pedophile. But what’s wrong with a little slur here and there in the fight for the glorious cause?
Roger Moore
@David Koch:
No, see, he’s not oppressing the Russian masses, only people who disagree with him. Since he keeps winning elections by suspiciously large margins, it must be only the minority who are being oppressed, not the masses.
Gin & Tonic
@Mandalay: I have found him insufferable since pretty much the inception of his show.
Mandalay
@David Koch:
Incorrect – they were not put in prison “for simply singing a protest song”.
eemom
One never does.
Hey AL, you seem bored tonight….try googling “fair use.”
Gin & Tonic
@David Koch: If Putin is the id of the average post-Soviet Russian, and there is certainly ample evidence that he is, then is he oppressing them or just following the popular sentiment?
Warren Terra
@Joe Buck:
I encourage you to read around a little about how people from the Caucuses and Central Asia, people who were co-national with Moscow for 70 years, people who may have been educated in Moscow for three generations, people who speak Russian as well as anyone (who in some cases may only speak Russian) are treated by cops and by citizens in the streets and marketplaces. It’s like Arpaio’s and Kobach’s darkest fantasies come to life – and as a blogging/commenting community we’re none to kind too those assho|es, either.
fuckwt
What the fuck is going on in the world right now? It seems like it’s going a little crazy all over the place.
These guys remind me of Straight Edge punkers– who were always the most violent motherfuckers in any mosh pit– but with a nasty Nazi streak. Crossed with a bit of Anonymous for their approach to vigilantism, and some really vile homophobia and xenophobia.
I think the source of the problem is economic, and was explained well in old-skool punk lyrics “NO FUTURE FOR YOU!”– kids all over the world are looking around at their future and seeing…. nothing. And they’re very, very pissed off.
Some are doing constructive things, like trying their best to throw off dictators in Egypt and the middle east, or throw off the 1% via Occupy in the cities here and in Europe, but others like the teabaggers/militias in the rural US and AQ in the middle east and these Russian haters, are just going for straight hatred of The Other. I’m less concerned about AQ and teabaggers because they tend to be older and will get demographic’ed out eventually, but when I see kids doing the hater thing, it worries me.
This is the thing. Obama said it well with regard to the Trayvon Martin case: the more economic distress there is, the more destitution and fewer opportunities, the more temptation there is to just lash out at anyone or anything that seems alien or foreign. It’s a very scary trend, and Obama is not the first to notice it: let’s not forget that the first Great Depression caused fascism and totalitarianism to rise up and give us the horror that was WWII.
I am very worried about the state of the world. The anger could cause massive, sweeping, positive changes that will make the world better for everyone, or, it could cause the worst destruction and oppression we’ve ever yet seen. It all depends on.. I don’t know what, exactly, but I wish I did.
Mike in NC
Vlad Putin and Lindsey Graham probably have a lovely dacha timeshare on the Black Sea.
pat
@fuckwt:
Add to that the disruption caused by global warming and overpopulation in general and I have to say that we who lived in the second half of the 20th century were really lucky.
Ken
How can you say such horrible things about Putin? I look into his eyes and I see a kindred spirit.
Emma
Jesus. Why is it that there’s a kind of liberal whose only raison d’etre is to say “America’s worse!”? Guess what? It’s not a race and IT’S NOT ALWAYS ABOUT US!
Suffern ACE
But how is having an Olympics in Russia worse than having one in China?
Patricia Kayden
@ChrisNYC: Well, Ames does put hero in quotes when he refers to Snowden, so maybe Ames doesn’t care for him too much. I feel the same, although I’m still hoping that something good comes out of his whistleblowing, i.e., reform of the Patriot Act.
scav
Swiss behaving charmingly as well: Outrage as Swiss move to segregate asylum-seekers. Some towns, some are quick to point out. But
and the govt’s department of immigration apparently agreed to the restrictions.
NotMax
@Joe Buck
Make that 22 CIA personnel and 1 U.S. Air Force officer convicted in Italy.
And let’s not forget the byzantine case of Luis Posada Carriles.
srv
As nation states become less relevant, economies become more unstable, leaders will get more tyrannical.
Our leaders just get more irrational. Presidents McCain and Obama want the MB back in in Egypt.
It used to be said the Bush administration only made sense if Cheney was an Iranian Operative. I’d posit our current Administrations only make sense if they’re Wahhabi Operatives.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mandalay: I agree with everything you said, including punctuation.
karen
Let’s not forget the Golden Dawn and the Greek police who are throwing gays, lesbians, poor people, drug addicts, immigrants and others into camps.
And of course supplies of food and money and oil aren’t being kept artificially low so the masses riot and kill each other, saving rich people the trouble.
David Koch
@ChrisNYC: why would the leading journalist of our era, Greenwald, call another journalist a “pedophile”? did he have a leaked power point presentation to back it up?
Mandalay
@Suffern ACE:
With regard to gay rights, China is way ahead of Russia, and Russia is also moving in the wrong direction. But for overall human rights it seems that China is no better than Russia. For example…
Of course having China as our second largest trading partner, and Russia having Teddy Snowden, does not impact our views in the slightest…it’s all principled poutrage.
Baud
@Mandalay:
So you believe that the people upset about having the Olympics in Russia are actually upset because of Snowden?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandalay:
Lord Palmerston once said, “Great Britain has no friends, only interests.”
Narcissus
The apparatus of the State in Russia is in an advanced state of neoliberal capture – it doesn’t serve the Russian people at all. And as the Russian state serves the Oligarchs, Russian society collapses, and tribalism and fascism become the most effective form of politics.
Mandalay
@scav:
Australia as well…
Omnes Omnibus
@Narcissus: Can you point out any lengthy periods of time where this was not the case in Russia?
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Great Britain has always been something of an introvert.
Chris
@Joe Buck:
That’s really all that needs to be said.
the Conster
Who could’ve predicted that the head of the KGB would be an autocratic megalomaniac thug as an elected leader?
Mandalay
@Baud:
No, not at all, though on re-reading my post did imply that. My comments on “our views” really referred to the Obama Administration, whose attitude towards the Olympics in Russia will not be formed solely on gay rights, though gay rights would provide a convenient cudgel for them.
Baud
@Mandalay:
Understood. Has Obama said anything yet about the Olympics issue?
David Koch
@the Conster: not this guy
Narcissus
@Omnes Omnibus: No. I do think it is noteworthy that the Oligarchs in question are no longer Nomenklatura but transnational Corporatists.
Chris
@fuckwt:
As ideologies fail, people fall back on the much simpler concept of tribalism.
A lot of people have commented on how the governments in Russia and China have been leaning more and more heavily on nationalism as their legitimizing ideology ever since orthodox communism became discredited (and after neoliberal-style capitalism turned out not to be all it was sold as either, though that part usually goes unsaid). In Iran, during the Ahmadinejad years you had an increase in Persian nationalist (as opposed to Islamic) rhetoric to accompany the shift in power from the clergy to the paramilitaries. In America and Europe, you’ve had the rise of the far right. Things are tribalist all over.
Bonnie
The IOC should move the Olympics today and be done with the problem. Short notice, sure; but, it doesn’t hurt the athletes as other solutions may. I would bet that any former host would be willing to throw something together for the revenues the Olympics generate.
burnspbesq
Apparently, the most important thing happening in the world this week is that a pop singer got a haircut.
gogol's wife
@Anne Laurie:
I’m sorry. I was in a hurry to go somewhere, and my quick read gave me the mistaken impression that this was the “Russians are just a big mob of skinheads and homophobes” message I’ve been seeing in the posts and comments in recent days. I shouldn’t have commented without reading the whole post, you’re right.
David Koch
@burnspbesq: bad mistake by bee
Mandalay
@Baud:
Yes he has…
I think Obama is really ballsy (or reckless depending on your perspective) to be taking a strong stand this early, since his words can only harden the position of Russia, where the law has overwhelming support.
We’ll see.
Jose Arcadio Buendía
1. The US is not perfect… so two wrongs make a right?
2. All of your ilk who want to boycott Israel now don’t want to boycott Russia?
3. It’s the case that odonnell can be a dick and tnr chick can be wrong.
Liberals are having a schizoid moment over this kind of thing lately. Are you for gay rights first or are you for pissing on America first? America can be a bad guy in the world, yes, but there are plenty of those.
Last I checked we were pissed at Bush for doing shit and kicked his party out of power. We didn’t just say, oh, well, someone else sucks too.
NotMax
@burnspbesq
Stop the presses!
Is the shorn hair up for sale on eBay yet?
/pounding forehead on desk
Mandalay
@gogol’s wife:
Why be any different to the rest of us?
NotMax
@Bonnie
Vancouver holds the runner-up position for hosting them.
burnspbesq
@NotMax:
Convicted in absentia, in a proceeding that doesn’t even come close to satisfying minimal standards of fairness. But you don’t care about that as long as the bad guys get what’s coming to them.
Mandalay
@Jose Arcadio Buendía:
Nice try.
NotMax
@burnspbesq
You mind reading-fu is not strong on this one, as I offered no value judgments whatsoever, merely the correct numbers.
Redshirt
The wingnuts of FreeRepublic have almost completely fallen into a mad, passionate love affair with Russia. Seriously. The anti-gay legislation is a big, big plus for them. Plus, Putin is a real leader.
It’s damn surreal to see 65 year old white supremacists swoon over Russia and condemn America. But that’s where we are.
burnspbesq
@David Koch:
I’m a big Megan Rapinoe fan, and generally in favor of her haircut, but it works a lot better on her, and on Miley Cyrus, than it does on Ms. Knowles.
The prophet Nostradumbass
I see people are using the “since you’re not perfect, you have no right to criticize others” trick again.
Mandalay
@burnspbesq:
As you know perfectly well, he was convicted in absentia because he fled the country. It is also worth noting that at least Britain respects in absentia convictions in Italy.
gogol's wife
@Mandalay:
Okay, since you’re here — what is it you think that PR did other than sing a protest song? They sang an anti-Putin song in a church (not during a service, despite what the New York Times said in a review of the documentary about them).
Yatsuno
@Bonnie: Only possible place that might be able to take them is Vancouver, but they’ll want a huge price for the last-minute deal. But it would have to be within the next couple of months in order to groom the runs on Whistler and make sure the Olympic Village can accommodate the atheltes. I really don’t want to cancel the Games, that would punish the hard work of all the participants.
burnspbesq
@Mandalay:
As you know perfectly well, the fact that he fled the country because of Italy’s erroneous and outrageous rejection of his claim of diplomatic immunity (see Article 39, section 2 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic and Consular Relations – if you had diplomatic immunity at the time of the act complained of, you don’t lose it as a result of termination of employment) doesn’t make trial in absentia any less fundamentally unfair.
Mandalay
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
It’s not a “trick”, and anyone is free to criticize anything.
The issue is how much credibility you have when you criticize, and if you don’t have much credibility it’s probably better to STFU.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Mandalay: It’s designed to deflect attention, and blame, away from the actual subject, and onto the person pointing it out. That qualifies as a “trick”, as far as I’m concerned.
FlipYrWhig
If only there was someone who was gay and a civil libertarian and had an interest in Russia and had a media platform.
Yatsuno
@Jose Arcadio Buendía: lolwut?
burnspbesq
@Mandalay:
The UK’s participation in the 2009 EU ministerial agreement that allows enforcement of the European Arrest Warrant in cases where the person sought was convicted in absentia in the requesting state remains highly controversial in the UK.
http://www.fairtrials.net/press/press-releases/eu-told-fix-the-european-arrest-warrant-before-entrenching-trials-in-absentia/
Your commitment to fair criminal processes seems a bit inconsistent and opportunistic. Just sayin.’
Jasmine Bleach
@Jose Arcadio Buendía:
Speaking as a raging liberal, I can say I have no idea why folks like you try to degrade us by claiming we’re “schizoid”.
I don’t like America. I think the Olympics should boycott Russia and move or close down the proceedings. Where’s the “schizoid” there?
Liberals support actual ideals and good policies–not individual people and/or countries. We don’t cheerlead if someone is doing the wrong thing. Quite simple, actually.
Elie
@Jasmine Bleach:
Where do you live and why? Just curious…
Mandalay
@burnspbesq:
Well I was about to explain why you are completely wrong on this, but I am now happy to concede that you may well be correct….
We shall see.
LeftCoastTom
@Mandalay:
Then when do you plan to STFU?
After all, your continued justifications for trials in abstentia, an idea which passes no reasonable test for fairness, hardly generate credibility.
Elie
@Jasmine Bleach:
also — is there a liberal nomenklatura that keeps track of “the right thing” — so that you don’t — ahem — cheerlead the wrong thing and such. Gotta know what is “the right thing” after all in your list of things you like and don’t like.. being liberal and all — gotta get the right thing above all…
eemom
@FlipYrWhig:
shhhh. He said he might possibly consider gracing the US with his presence again following the Windsor decision. Don’t press our luck.
Meg
Divorcing his wife, getting plastic surgeries, doing even more crazy things than usual…
I say Putin is suffering from midlife crisis.
dww44
@Joe Buck: Re the CIA agent and the kidnapping in Italy, there was a very interesting run down of that whole story by Rachel Maddow last evening, followed by an interview with a female former CIA agent and friend of the aforenamed CIA agent. He kidnapped, yes, but was under orders to do and was hung out to dry by the Naples station chief, who got pardoned by the Italian government, and by the higher-ups in D.C. Very very interesting. The female says a number of them, including her, were all hung out to dry for the kidnapping that they were ordered to do.
Soonergrunt
@FlipYrWhig: You think he gives a fuck one way or another about gay people in Russia? He’ll let that one slide as long as Snowden keeps the interest in his Guardian column (and therefore his paycheck) up. Just today he was quoted as talking about how much people in Russia love Ed Snowden and how he’s their hero, right in the very article Anne Laurie linked to.
Mandalay
@LeftCoastTom:
It’s not just Italy that allows in absentia trials. Take your serious poutrage to our Supreme Court since they don’t agree with you:
Translation: You don’t get a second trial if you flee your first trial. Are you seriously claiming that “passes no reasonable test for fairness”?
NotMax
@dww44
Posted a comment about De Sousa’s story when it broke, in late July.
Good read, the whole McClatchy piece is, here.
LeftCoastTom
@Mandalay: What part of “if, after the trial has begun in his presence” did you miss?
Mandalay
@LeftCoastTom:
Jesus…I cited a Supreme Court ruling simply to show that even in the United States in absentia trials are permitted. So even in this country your claim that an in absentia trial “passes no reasonable test for fairness” does not stand.
But Lady was tried in Italy where in absentia trials are part of their legal system, whether you like it or not.
You don’t appear to have any understanding about what is being discussed.
mdblanche
I was listening to Masha Gessen discussing how as a lesbian her family would be personally affected by the law and the one thought to be coming next to strip gay parents of their children. And I was struck by how casual her tone of voice was when she talked about moving her whole family abroad as if it were a normal act of precaution like carrying an umbrella on a cloudy day. It really suggested to me an attitude that Russia remains a place that people normally want or need to flee from.
http://www.cbc.ca/day6/popupaudio1.html?categoryid=1578326635
(starts about 9 minutes in)
Jane2
@NotMax: Not unless you’re paying for them….Vancouverites have long memories.
Jeremy
@Jasmine Bleach: Then if you don’t like America go someplace else. No one is stopping you. If I don’t like a place I just move to another place.
America is far from perfect but it’s not the terrible place some emo’s portray it to be. No country on this planet is perfect but the Anti- American stuff from people who live here sounds crazy. This rhetoric also feeds into the right wing narrative that liberals are anti- American wackos which they have used since 1968. I think the proper way is calling for change without the anti American stuff.
burnspbesq
@Mandalay:
Just so we’re clear: if the Italians can prove that the ex-CIA guy whose name I’m blanking on was involved in the Milan kidnapping, and prove that he really wasn’t entitled to diplomatic immunity, and do it in a fair proceeding, then the guy can rot in an Italian jail. What was done was outrageous. But process matters, and sometimes having a fair process matters more than the outcome of any particular case.
burnspbesq
@Meg:
Then he should buy a fucking Porsche instead of persecuting gay people.
Mandalay
@burnspbesq:
My understanding is that whether he (Robert Lady) had diplomatic immunity is a moot point from the perspective of the Italian judiciary due to the seriousness of the alleged crime.
But regardless of that, my understanding is also that he did not have diplomatic immunity; he got thrown to the wolves by his bosses.
Since his detainment in Panama the other day he seems to have conveniently disappeared. For all I know he could be posting here, or he could be rotting in the jungle in Panama with a thank you from his former employer lodged in the back of his skull. Either way, I doubt if he will ever set foot in Italy again.
Mandalay
@Jeremy:
It’s ironic that in your post about feeding into the right wing narrative you employ a tired and ridiculous right wing talking point.
Joe Buck
@raven: Wow. An “America: love it or leave it” comment on an allegedly Democratic site.
FlipYrWhig
@Soonergrunt: that’s about what I figured, but I’m happily out of the habit of regularly reading him. Given what he professes to believe in, though, that kind of, ah, let’s say selectivity, is pretty bad.
Joe Buck
@dww44: The Nuremberg defense is not an excuse (and Rachel Maddow, who I like otherwise, sucks up to the military and security folks to an alarming degree).
Jeremy
@Mandalay: Well what is wrong with what I said. If you hate America goes somewhere else
Who lives in a place that they hate ? People just get tired of the constant America is the devil rhetoric.
AxelFoley
@FlipYrWhig:
I see what you did there.
I am not a kook
@Mandalay:
Words for others to live by I’m sure.
Jeremy
I just think the anti American and anti military stuff from some is a stupid strategy that does not appeal to the vast majority of people/ voters. If you think America should make some changes and have a less interventionist policy then advocate for it. But don’t expect people to go along with anti American rhetoric.
Jeremy
@Jeremy: Correction: go someplace else.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Jeremy: You sound exactly like the people who would shout “AMERICA: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT” at anti-Vietnam War protestors. Do you enjoy sounding exactly like a right-wing troglodyte?
David Koch
@eemom:
Not gonna happen. He doesn’t want his paycheck garnished by the IRS for failing to pay taxes for a decade.
David Koch
@burnspbesq: then you should watch this
Meg
@The prophet Nostradumbass: How did you conflat “If you think America should make some changes and have a less interventionist policy then advocate for it. But don’t expect people to go along with anti American rhetoric.” with “AMERICA: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT”?
It is very strange.
J R in WV
@burnspbesq:
Oh, no! It doesn’t… diplomatic immunity has always been intended to allow “diplomats” to kidnap foreign nationals and torture them in little secret cellers under prisons in backward failed states.
That’s what our diplomatic corps is intended to be doing, right? Sure it is.
Ass.
ON the topic:
How many Ice Dancers will be wanting to spend time in Mother Russia? How about those figure skaters?
What about those downhill skiers, going 90 miles an hour, while gay?
I wouldn’t set foot in Russia right now if I were a young foreigner – way too risky.
Matt McIrvin
@Emma: Yeah… you know what ELSE was pretty rich? The United States of the 1940s condemning Adolf Hitler for being a bigot.
Matt McIrvin
@Redshirt:
Interesting. Right around the time John McCain was running for President, it seemed like Republicans were trying to gin up some Cold War redux sentiment with Russia as the Evil Empire.
Speaking as a child of the Eighties, I don’t want to go back there. One thing I seriously hope is that we don’t lose the bilateral efforts to draw down nuclear stockpiles, because it’s way more important than most people realize (to his credit, this is a thing that Obama actually cares about).
But if Putin goes the full Hitler, what do we do?
dmbeaster
Russians always seem to lust for another good Tsar. Now they are getting their wish fulfilled. So what is he is a petty tyrant – you are expecting Peter the Great?