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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Racial Justice / Post-racial America / Not the Same

Not the Same

by John Cole|  August 19, 20131:44 pm| 140 Comments

This post is in: Post-racial America, Both Sides Do It!, Decline and Fall, Our Failed Media Experiment

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So apparently Ted Cruz has dual citizenship, if anyone actually cares (actually, the people who probably care are his base), but I’ve not seen one Democrat make an issue about this other than to snicker and laugh. So when I saw this on CNN, it honked me off:

“Senator Cruz became a U.S. citizen at birth, and he never had to go through a naturalization process after birth to become a U.S. citizen,” spokeswoman Catherine Frazier told the newspaper. “To our knowledge, he never had Canadian citizenship, so there is nothing to renounce.”

The recent debate has invoked the controversial “birther” movement that questioned President Barack Obama’s eligibility for president. He put the issue to rest in 2011 when he released his long-form birth certificate proving he was born in Hawaii–though a small amount of conspiracists still maintain doubt about the president’s place of birth.

The link to this story on the CNN homepage had the teaser- “New Birther Controversy?” complete with Cavuto mark. Because, you know, Ted Cruz voluntarily releasing his birth certificate and everyone yawning is the same as a sustained multi-year effort to delegitimize President Obama while asserting he is Kenyan and blah blah blah. Also, too, both sides do it.

Not sure how this country survives this current media environment.

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Reader Interactions

140Comments

  1. 1.

    Keith P.

    August 19, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    CNN had a headline about this? I must have missed it due to all the screen real estate they devoted to the revelation that Prince William changed his baby’s diapers and gets worried about buckling him into a child seat.

    BTW: I am not making those headlines up.

  2. 2.

    Belafon

    August 19, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Here’s how all of our conversations will go with conservatives if Cruz decides to run:

    Them: Ha, you can’t oppose Cruz’s running for president because of Obama.

    Us: I never said anything about Cruz’s citizenship because I think he’s able to run for president. Because one of his parents was American, it doesn’t matter where he was born.

    Them: See, it is an issue for you. I didn’t bring up his being born in Canada, you did. So you know that Obama was born in Kenya.

  3. 3.

    feebog

    August 19, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    OK, so the difference between President Obama and Ted Cruz is that although their mothers were both American citizens and their fathers were not, Obama was born in the USA and Cruz was born in a foreign country. And oh yeah, Obama is half black which makes him suspect, while Cruz is white enough that it doesn’t matter.

  4. 4.

    schrodinger's cat

    August 19, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    Crazy Ted is crazy no matter where he was born.

  5. 5.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    August 19, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    I don’t get it. Who is claiming Ted Cruz is black?

  6. 6.

    Chris

    August 19, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    though a small amount of conspiracists

    I LOL’d.

  7. 7.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    August 19, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    At least Ted Cruz was smart enough to join the American party.

  8. 8.

    shelly

    August 19, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Orly Taitz is on the case!

    No, seriously

  9. 9.

    Yatsuno

    August 19, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: He is a brown, but the right kind of brown, so he’s totes fine.

  10. 10.

    ? Martin

    August 19, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    If anyone had any doubt that Cruz is planning on running in 2016…

  11. 11.

    Yatsuno

    August 19, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    @? Martin: He sure spends a lot of time eating corndogs in Iowa for a man not interested in the Presidency…

  12. 12.

    Alex S.

    August 19, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    He’s running in 2016. Obama will be gone in 2016. Their rules change when they need to.

  13. 13.

    Paul in KY

    August 19, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    @Keith P.: I heard he said he (George Alex Louie, etc. etc.) reminded him of when he & his brother were babies. How’s that?!

  14. 14.

    Ben Cisco

    August 19, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Not sure how this country survives this current media environment.

    By KILLING IT IN THE FACE!

  15. 15.

    Punchy

    August 19, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Did anyone check the font? How many Ameros does it cost to check the kerning on such a doc?

  16. 16.

    Alex S.

    August 19, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    @? Martin:

    Their field is coming together nicely. Here’s a list I made for my own pleasure:
    Chris Christie (although I’m beginning to have my doubts)
    Rand Paul
    Ted Cruz
    Bobby Jindal (this year’s Tim Pawlenty)
    Jeb Bush (as a possible consensus candidate)
    Peter King
    Rick Santorum
    Marco Rubio?

  17. 17.

    cleek

    August 19, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Not sure how this country survives this current media environment.

    the media has always been lazy, stupid and biased. because it’s always been run by people, who are generally lazy, stupid and biased.

    there is nothing new under the sun.

  18. 18.

    Comrade Dread

    August 19, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    Of course they’re not the same. Cruz is a Republican, which means he is legitimate. Obama is a Democrat which means he’s only president because a conspiracy of the MSM, government officials, Muslims, and communists covered up the fact that he was born in Kenya, educated in madrasas, a gay coke fiend, fascist, socialist ready to form a new Third Reich on the backs of black gang stormtroopers who will round up and kill whitey.

    It has nothing to do with race, of course.

    Ugh… god, I always feel like I need to take a bath in bleach or possibly lye after channeling a Tea Party member.

  19. 19.

    Zifnab

    August 19, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Because, you know, Ted Cruz voluntarily releasing his birth certificate and everyone yawning is the same as a sustained multi-year effort to delegitimize President Obama while asserting he is Kenyan and blah blah blah. Also, too, both sides do it.

    When Gavin Newsom hires a crack team of ex-SFPD officers to fly to Vancouver and do a cold case sweep of Cruz’s mother’s hospital for matching placenta cells, I will concede that both sides do, in fact, do it.

    Honestly, I’m just curious what kind of rat-fuckery Cruz will be on the receiving end of during the ’16 GOP primaries. I can’t wait to find out how Texas’s nuttiest new Senator once made physical contact with a copy of Das Kapital and failed to amputate the limb. Or perhaps we’ll hear about his secret immigrant family, stashed away in some fallout shelter in El Paso awaiting the day of Reconquista. Or maybe we’ll discover, to our nation’s horror, that he is Catholic. I forget whether that still counts as a black mark among WASPs.

  20. 20.

    zombie rotten mcdonald

    August 19, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    @Alex S.:

    Don’t forget Scott Turdwaffle Walker and Paul Ryan.

  21. 21.

    The Red Pen

    August 19, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Someone cares.

    Note: Free Republic is failing to load pages intermittently. Please enjoy overloading their servers (server?) further.

    A sample response to the question, “Have you ever wondered why it is that every candidate choice put before you is inherently flawed?”

    I noticed that in ’08. The Boy Wonder wasn’t in any shape or form eligible. Going strictly by the letter, which we should do, McLame wasn’t either. He wasn’t born on the US military base but in Colon although some wanted to let that slid. Nader’s running mate, Gonzalez’s mother was born a Mexican citizen which would have been a disaster with his “one heartbeat away”. What are the odds of the top three tickets being at the very least questionable unless it was intentional. One is an oopsie. Two is a wake up call. Three is an outright concerted effort.

    I’ve written BASIC programs that can simulate human thought better than this.

  22. 22.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    August 19, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    I hope nothing disqualifies any of the crazies in the Republican party from running. And I want their debates to be moderated by people like Mark Levin and Sean Hannity. I want their crazy on full display, turned up to 11.

  23. 23.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    August 19, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    Cruz can run for president of Canada if he fails here.

  24. 24.

    PsiFighter37

    August 19, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Ted Cruz isn’t black. That’s the difference.

    Of course, the MSM is way too polite to ever suggest that the birthers are racist shitheads.

  25. 25.

    Felinious Wench

    August 19, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    Wait…so if Ted Cruz is elected President (which will require me to leave the country) can he also run for office in Canada? Are we sure where his loyalties are? What if he’s a plant from Canukistan and this has all been a nefarious plot to get single-payer health care into the United States all along?

    Ah, the trolling of my right-wing family, it shall be epic. I cannot WAIT until the man declares he’s running.

  26. 26.

    ruemara

    August 19, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    He’s the right kind of minority. One that backs rich old white dudes and hates other minorities too. Nothing to see there, move along.

  27. 27.

    The Red Pen

    August 19, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    @The Red Pen: Oh, found a really great “speaking truth to birthers” post:

    There is not one single significant authority in the entire history of the United States who EVER said it required birth on US soil PLUS two citizen parents for a person to be a natural born citizen or eligible to be President. NOT ONE.

    The claim was made up out of whole cloth by birthers who didn’t like Obama. Now the FALSE CLAIM is being turned against Ted Cruz.

    This won’t end well for them. The reputable Dem/progressive sites ran off the Truthers. The fact that sites like Free Republic won’t run off the birthers shows just how much they need the support of these freaks.

  28. 28.

    hildebrand

    August 19, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    @ruemara: Yep, the only good Hispanic is one that comes from Cuba – because, communism!

  29. 29.

    Mandalay

    August 19, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    @Alex S.: Looks pretty good, but I’d add Paul Ryan and Rick Perry.

    If he runs I think that Jeb Bush would get gang raped by his opponents, and last about fifteen minutes.

  30. 30.

    Alexandra

    August 19, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Ted Cruz and his ‘creepy’ paisley robe. Heh.

  31. 31.

    PeakVT

    August 19, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    “Senator Cruz became a U.S. citizen at birth, and he never had to go through a naturalization process after birth to become a U.S. citizen,”

    True. But I there is still a distinction here, I believe, and the shill’s phrasing indicates to me they believe it as well. Cruz became a citizen by law, not by right. The Constitution grants citizenship via jus solis (right of soil) in Amd. XIV, and authorizes the Congress to establish a naturalization process in Art I, Sec. 8, which is why Cruz was given citizenship at birth. The distinction is only relevant to Cruz depending on one’s interpretation of the phrase “natural-born citizen”.

    I’d like for wingnuts to reject Cruz on the grounds he’s not eligible, but that would require them to think and to experience shame, which clearly won’t happen.

  32. 32.

    Sasha

    August 19, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Not sure how this country survives this current media environment.

    What makes you think it has?

  33. 33.

    Comrade Dread

    August 19, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    @Felinious Wench: Make sure you throw in a line about how it’s a secret plot to unify the US and Canada and bring about the Amero and Agenda 21 too.

  34. 34.

    JPL

    August 19, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: Would it be possible to run as the unity candidate? He could run as Prime Minister and President of the U. S., then the northern borders could be open.
    Of course he would have to win both…
    What birth certificate did he show?

  35. 35.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    August 19, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    @zombie rotten mcdonald: Scott Brown took a little trip to Iowa recently, too.

  36. 36.

    Adam C

    August 19, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    I’m sure Cruz doesn’t want his Canadian citizenship any more than we in Canada want him to have it. But AFAICT he has that citizenship unless and until he renounces it. It’s bizarre to me that he feels the need to pretend differently.

  37. 37.

    The Dangerman

    August 19, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Clearly, we need to have a conversation about the Turds and the Teas; you’re old enough now…

    ETA: AKA IOKIYAR, a whole new level of fucking

  38. 38.

    JPL

    August 19, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Scott wants to see if his brand of leadership would be welcome in Iowa. In other MA news, Tebow thinks he is getting better each game he plays. He was 1-7 for minus one yard and had one interception. Who is the delusional one?

  39. 39.

    Roger Moore

    August 19, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    @Belafon:

    The correct response is, “I oppose Cruz’s candidacy because I think his policies are awful.” It’s true, and it gets to the heart of the problem much better than any kind of distraction about his citizenship.

  40. 40.

    Keith P.

    August 19, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    @Alex S.: You left off Scott Brown.

  41. 41.

    Jack the Second

    August 19, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    Did the American right love immigrants who fled the rest of the Soviet bloc, or just Cuba?

  42. 42.

    Southern Beale

    August 19, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    Not sure how this country survives this current media environment.

    Take heart, Cole: Al Jazeera America launches tomorrow and it looks to completely shake things up. I cannot fucking wait.

  43. 43.

    Alex S.

    August 19, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    @zombie rotten mcdonald:

    Scott Walker, true, with the help of Koch money he might be able to get an operation going very quickly, though I haven’t seen him make the moves so far.
    I don’t think that Paul Ryan will run. His reputation is shattered. He might run again if he has accumulated some more credibility as a dealmaker or breaker

    @Mandalay:
    I guess Rick Perry wants to run, but this time, he’ll find accumulating supporters and money much more difficult.

  44. 44.

    Tom_23

    August 19, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Some author claims he is was born in Cuba. Will hte left wing and Rachel Maddow start calling him Rafael the commie.cuban.
    This is right wing troll gold, Pot at the end of the rainbow…

  45. 45.

    GregB

    August 19, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Apparently Cruz’s college roommate is talking and saying that Cruz was one creepy as authoritarian shitheel.

    America doesn’t need Douglass C. Neidermeyer for president.

  46. 46.

    Tone In DC

    August 19, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    @Felinious Wench:

    I refuse to troll right wing friends (no one in the family is a winger, blessedly), as this can lead directly to metric fucktons of weapons grade butthurt. It is a sorry spectacle, kinda like reality TV or Sean Hannity’s show.

    Last, I only just noted that the nym is Felinious Wench, not Felonious Wench. I shoulda caught that before. Hey, ya gotta like cats.
    Anyway, I think the only felons on B-J are the sockpuppet trolls and M-C; for incitement to riot and use of excessive ignorance.

  47. 47.

    Southern Beale

    August 19, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    @Jack the Second:

    They didn’t like Martina Navratilova when she opened her fat Commie yap after 9/11.

  48. 48.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    August 19, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    @JPL: And Brandon Weeden was 18 of 25 for 224 yd, 3 TD, and a passer rating of 139.0.

    Which one is the miracle boy, again?

  49. 49.

    Southern Beale

    August 19, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    @GregB:

    Cruz reminds me of the creepy homophobic preacher-turned-gay-vampire dude from True Blood.

    Ted Cruz sets my gaydar off BIG TIME, I might add. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  50. 50.

    Southern Beale

    August 19, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    @Alex S.:

    Scott Walker is national poison. All most people know of him is he’s the guy who caused thousands of people to protest at the state capitol.

  51. 51.

    The Red Pen

    August 19, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    Another thing that struck me was this: if you look at the posted BC, it features a giant, empty, pink 60-point star in the lower left corner. WTF is that? If makes the document look like something you win at a carnival.

  52. 52.

    Roger Moore

    August 19, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    @Jack the Second:

    Did the American right love immigrants who fled the rest of the Soviet bloc, or just Cuba?

    I think they were willing to listen to anyone who said enough bad things about Communism, viz John Paul II. OTOH, people who were willing to say bad stuff about both Communism and Capitalism were suspect.

  53. 53.

    Roger Moore

    August 19, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    @JPL:

    Who is the delusional one?

    All of them, Katie.

  54. 54.

    Mandalay

    August 19, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    @Tom_23:

    Will hte left wing and Rachel Maddow start calling him Rafael the commie.cuban.

    He’s already being called “Canadian Ted”. He needs to move pretty quickly on formally renouncing his Canadian citizenship before it becomes a major issue. It was incredibly dumb and/or arrogant for him to think that claiming Canadian citizenship was a lifestyle choice.

  55. 55.

    Mike in NC

    August 19, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Can’t wait for the Villagers to start earnestly debating who has greater appeal to Hispanic voters: crazy Cruz or blowhard Rubio?

  56. 56.

    The Red Pen

    August 19, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I think they were willing to listen to anyone who said enough bad things about Communism, viz John Paul II. OTOH, people who were willing to say bad stuff about both Communism and Capitalism were suspect.

    PJPII said some pretty socialist things, particularly about health care. PFI is being even worse in that respect.

    Of course the right wing in this country can withstand levels of cognitive dissonance that can’t be measured by current technologies.

  57. 57.

    IowaOldLady

    August 19, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    @Mike in NC: The idea that Rubio or Cruz would draw hispanic voters is right up there with Palin drawing HRC voters.

  58. 58.

    Chris

    August 19, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    @ruemara:

    This. Their threshold for supporting minority Republicans is higher than for white ones, but on general principle they’ll support them as long as they do nothing to threaten the established order.

    That scene at CPAC with the black Republican explaining that all black people should follow the example of Frederick Douglass who forgave his former owner pretty much says it all in a nutshell. (It’s how they expect minorities to behave, but they’re still prone to getting mad if the minorities don’t say it in exactly the right way).

  59. 59.

    PsiFighter37

    August 19, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    @GregB: Of course he’s an asshole, that much should be obvious. Does anyone in the Senate actually like the guy? I bet even his buddies in the Asshole(TM) Caucus (Ayn Rand Paul and Mike Lee) think he’s an asshole of unusual quality.

    The joke will be on the Republicans if they nominate him. If they lost badly with an unwitting asshole (Romney), think how badly they’ll lose with someone who will intentionally say shit like the 47% comment over and over again?

  60. 60.

    Jane2

    August 19, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: Given that he and Stephen Harper have similar personalities and are both Albertans., Ted might do quite well as a Canuckian candidate.

  61. 61.

    Roger Moore

    August 19, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    @The Red Pen:

    Of course the right wing in this country can withstand levels of cognitive dissonance that can’t be measured by current technologies.

    They are incapable of cognitive dissonance because it requires thought.

  62. 62.

    SFAW

    August 19, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    @Southern Beale:

    Wow, Connie Chung (who turns 67 tomorrow, but who should have retired at age 30 while she was still ahead) was a piece of work in that interview.

    When she suggested Navratilova go back to “Czechoslovakia” (which, by the way, demonstrates Chung’s borderline moronitude), Martina should have suggested that Connie might consider moving to China, since Connie apparently craves a nation steeped in crushing dissidents and dissidence.

    Fucking imbecile. And, no, Chung doesn’t get a pass because it was a “youthful indiscretion.”

  63. 63.

    PsiFighter37

    August 19, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    @SFAW: She’s still alive?

  64. 64.

    SFAW

    August 19, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    @PsiFighter37:
    Wikipedia says so.

    I, on the other hand, have never met her (thank FSM!), so she may just be a figment of my imagination. One can only hope.

    ETA: On the other hand, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

  65. 65.

    WaynersT

    August 19, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    So he has dual citizenship then, correct?

    One weird thing I’ve noticed since Obama came into office is everything they throw at him seems to come back and bite them, literally. This citizenship thing was so bizarre to begin with – and now the EXACT same weirdo claim about Obama is actually true about their favorite candidate. All weird weird weird. I think Obama might be Gandalf.

  66. 66.

    pseudonymous in nc

    August 19, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    @Adam C:

    AFAICT he has that citizenship unless and until he renounces it.

    Yep. Citizenship can be latent in that way: you might never exercise it, but it’s always there to be activated until you affirmatively renounce it. Which means that Tailgunner Ted may have to pay a visit to the Canadian consular services office on his lunch break in DC to de-Canuckify himself. Which in turn would make clear that he’s been a Canadian citizen since birth.

  67. 67.

    realbtl

    August 19, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    OT but I’d like to add my name to those that Newsmax says are urging Rush Limbaugh to run for the senate.

  68. 68.

    boatboy_srq

    August 19, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    @Chris: CNN is copying the Righting style of Fauxnews, I see…

  69. 69.

    IowaOldLady

    August 19, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    I sincerely can’t believe they’d nominate Cruz. I hear people saying he’s a talented and charismatic politician, but I just don’t see it. He’s mean. What am I missing?

  70. 70.

    Tom_23

    August 19, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    @Mandalay: I think this is the direct comparison to O and I guess I was too abstract. I think the references to Canada/Calgary are too realistic and really aren’t the “big lie’ that becomes hard to refute. Like the fake above, Cruz’ father was born in Cuba. The communism is just like the references to muslim. And Rafael is his given first name. Start there and you can make up all sorts of stuff.
    My other point is it goes to show how both sides do it. (Not)

  71. 71.

    srv

    August 19, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    Does he have to go to a Canadian embassy to renounce his citizenship?

    Is there an immigration complaint we could get a lawyer to file – to prevent him from re-entering the US as a foreign national?

  72. 72.

    boatboy_srq

    August 19, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    @Zifnab: I’d agree, except that according to the Teahad, folks like Newsom are so laid-back and wimpy that actually being sufficiently energized to raise a hand and ask “well, but really,…?” is equivalent to their testosterone-fueled hyper-Ramboed treehugger-killing romping across the globe for the least speck of propaganda fiction proof of BHO’s IslamoFasoSoshulist Kenyanism. Because progressives are so unmanly, or just not outraged like Good Patriotic Xtian Hetero Real Ahmurrcans™ over this Trampling of Teh Constitooshun, or something, so Shut Up.

    /snark

  73. 73.

    WaynersT

    August 19, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Is this the birth certificate? http://i.imgur.com/zse2awB.jpg

    Holy cow – an hispanic name on a foreign birth certificate.
    Boy oh boy, karma is a mean old bitch.

  74. 74.

    Citizen Alan

    August 19, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    I never thought I’d envy Ted Cruz. Is there anyway we can compromise and he can just give his Canadian citizenship to me?

  75. 75.

    Redshirt

    August 19, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Sherrif Joe’s setting up an exploratory Birther Committee to reveal Cruz’s lies, I’m sure.

  76. 76.

    The Moar You Know

    August 19, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    @The Red Pen: That entire thread is like watching a room full of drunken hillbillies opening a crate full of loaded rifles and moonshine.

    You know it’s going to be gory and horrible and yet you can’t stop laughing.

  77. 77.

    Roger Moore

    August 19, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    @WaynersT:

    I think Obama might be Gandalf.

    I think it’s more likely to be Merlin, who lived time backward.

  78. 78.

    p.a.

    August 19, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    @Yatsuno: conservatism counteracts melanin.

  79. 79.

    boatboy_srq

    August 19, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    @Jack the Second: It’s 2013. The generation that left their duchas and estates when the Mensheviks took over is long dead, but the generation that are still expecting to return to their haciendas and maquilladores the moment Fidel Raul Castro finally crosses over – and miraculously find them just as they left them – is still alive and kicking.

  80. 80.

    pseudonymous in nc

    August 19, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    @PeakVT:

    Cruz became a citizen by law, not by right.

    The fourteenth amendment was adopted in 1868, so you have to account for all the presidents born between 1788 and 1868 who didn’t have an explicit constitutional underpinning for their citizenship, but instead relied upon statutory and judicial precedent going back to colonial British days.

    Where there’s some passing interest is the language of the 1790 Naturalization Act that “the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens…” That’s long been superseded, but any judicial originalist would probably want to unpick whether that “as” bestows the thing itself or only its functional equivalent.

    It’s all hypothetical, because not only has SCOTUS never gone near that clause with a ten-foot pole, it’s not certain anyone could establish standing to get them to go near it.

  81. 81.

    jamick6000

    August 19, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    @IowaOldLady: I agree

  82. 82.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 19, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    though a small amount of conspiracists still maintain doubt about the president’s place of birth.

    Oh, bullshit.

    There is NOTHING Barack Obama can do to convince the 27% (and the vermin who doubt his citizenship are not a “small amount of conspiracists“…it’s practically mainstream Teatard/Rethuglican thought) that he was born in the United States, because as we all know, Hawaii has NEVER been a part of the United States.

  83. 83.

    gocart mozart

    August 19, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    @IowaOldLady:

    I hear people saying he’s a talented and charismatic politician, but I just don’t see it.

    “talented and charismatic” is wingnutspeak for “mean and nasty.”

  84. 84.

    schrodinger's cat

    August 19, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    @IowaOldLady: Nothing. I don’t see his appeal either. Christie on the other hand could be dangerous.

  85. 85.

    Yatsuno

    August 19, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    @p.a.: It’s all juicy birfer goodness to me. Hoisted upon their own petard perhaps.

  86. 86.

    wasabi gasp

    August 19, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    But Cruz chose the U.S. That’s kind of endearing. Obama chose Chicago.

    And yet, Kenya still erected a statue in his honor. That’s kind of endearing, too.

  87. 87.

    gocart mozart

    August 19, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:
    Christie called the sharia obsessed “a bunch of idiots” – Strike one
    Said something nice about Obama _ Strike two

  88. 88.

    Roger Moore

    August 19, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    @Yatsuno:

    Hoisted upon their own petard retard perhaps.

    FTFY.

  89. 89.

    IowaOldLady

    August 19, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Yes, Christie’s the one I fear. But maybe that’s a sign we don’t speak wingnut.

  90. 90.

    pseudonymous in nc

    August 19, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    @srv:

    Does he have to go to a Canadian embassy to renounce his citizenship?

    Potentially, but not necessarily.

    You may have to be interviewed by a citizenship judge. If so, we will notify you by mail of the time and place of your interview. If you live outside Canada, the Canadian embassy, high commission or consulate responsible for your area will contact you to let you know how the interview will be conducted.

    British or US citizens wanting to renounce their citizenship have to make an in-person declaration at a mission, but Canadians are nicer and seem to be happy to do it by filling in a form and sending a cheque.

  91. 91.

    Ted & Hellen

    August 19, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Maybe BO IS Kenyan. Personally, I don’t give a shit. I would actually enjoy watching the ensuing hysteria from all quarters.

    May I say again: I don’t give a shit. Better a Kenyan with a brain than a Texan with none.

  92. 92.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 19, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    @GregB:

    America doesn’t need Douglass C. Neidermeyer for president.

    We already did that 2001-2009, except the guy we had obviously wasn’t killed in Vietnam by his own troops. Because if that guy did go to Vietnam, he would have been. Which is why he made sure he didn’t go.

  93. 93.

    PsiFighter37

    August 19, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    @Ted & Hellen: I thought that Obama was worse than Bush, though? At least according to your gospel?

  94. 94.

    Redshirt

    August 19, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    @Ted & Hellen: LOL. Yeah, “maybe”. You’re just asking questions. Always in the pursuit of truth.

  95. 95.

    Davis X. Machina

    August 19, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    @gocart mozart: There’s a glass ceiling at about 47-8% on the GOP presidential vote share, barring a calamitous Democratic nominee. To get over that, they’re going to have to nominate someone who’s one or more, at least one or more, of the following:

    • Not a neo-confederate
    • Not a God-botherer
    • Not a xenophobe
    • Not carrying a y-chromosome
    • Not one of the Fetus People

    It might not be Christie. But if they want to win, and not just score points with Republican Jesus, it’ll be someone like Christie. Or they lose again.

  96. 96.

    daverave

    August 19, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    Well you can forget about Christie… he signed a bill today in NJ (CA is the only other state to do so!) banning gay conversion therapy on minors by licensed therapists. Although I guess if it’s under the auspices of Jaysus it’s OK.

  97. 97.

    jonas

    August 19, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    @Zifnab: First, Cruz is Cuban, you know, the “good” kind of Latino who drifted to Florida in a boat and got automatic green cards for agreeing that Fidel is the Antichrist, not those layabout criminal Mexicans who crawl hundreds of miles over the desert for a chance to wash dishes for a living. Second, being Catholic is cool now — see Santorum, Scalia, et. al. Hell, they’re even nominating Mormons these days.

  98. 98.

    Roger Moore

    August 19, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    To get over that, they’re going to have to nominate someone who’s one or more, at least one or more, of the following

    I don’t think it’s absolutely required that the person fall into one of the categories you listed. The big thing is that they have to be able to boost the Republicans’ vote share among one of the groups that Republicans are doing badly in, e.g. women, African Americans, Hispanics, Asian Americans, etc. The idea that the only way to do this is by nominating somebody who’s a member of one of those groups is classic identity politics. A better approach would be to actually change their platform in ways that don’t offend those groups, but I guess that’s beyond the realm of possibility these days.

  99. 99.

    Ben Cisco

    August 19, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Well said.

  100. 100.

    jonas

    August 19, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    @daverave: Yep — saw that this morning and thought, “wow, I guess he’s really not interested in the Republican nomination after all.” On the other hand, this could be the first indication we have that Christie’s thinking about an independent run.

  101. 101.

    Roger Moore

    August 19, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    @jonas:

    On the other hand, this could be the first indication we have that Christie’s thinking about an independent run.

    I don’t think FSM loves us enough for that to happen.

  102. 102.

    Anoniminous

    August 19, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    @Alex S.:

    I doubt Christie has the physical stamina to make it through 2 years of presidential campaigning.

  103. 103.

    chopper

    August 19, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    @The Red Pen:

    makes the document look like something you win at a carnival.

    given that that’s where cruz was born, it all makes sense.

  104. 104.

    bcinaz

    August 19, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    So let’s make Aug 20th, “Poke a Birther with a Stick Day”

  105. 105.

    Trollhattan

    August 19, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    @Alex S.:

    All they need to round out that slate is the other King brother–Steeeeve–for some rootin’ tootin’ all-imbecile, all-the-time primary action. Heck, somebody recruit Sheriff Joe.

    Love the Birf Certificate at top. “Kenyatown, Kenya” heh-indoozle.

    Anybody else see the NY gunz bust story? The Carolinas, still working to keep even our commie big cities Free.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/08/nyc-biggest-gun-bust-ever-photos.html

    Which somehow reminds me I was passed on I-80 this weekend by actual Hell’s Angels, not some wannabe Harley gang (e.g., that my accountant might belong to). Long time since I’d seen any.

  106. 106.

    PeakVT

    August 19, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc: so you have to account for all the presidents born between 1788 and 1868 who didn’t have an explicit constitutional underpinning for their citizenship,

    I’ve just assumed that this glaring hole was another compromise necessitated by the Southern attachment to slavery. Obviously it would be absurd if the only citizens were naturalized citizens. So the Framers fudged by omitting the issue and essentially leaving the citizenship of native-borns to the states to decide on an ongoing basis.

    Anyway, I think it’s irrelevant: Cruz was a citizen from the second he popped out, and that’s good enough for me. I’m just hoping that the Repukes will reject him because I think it would reflect poorly on them.

  107. 107.

    MazeDancer

    August 19, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    Maybe you have to be Texan to understand Rafael Edward Cruz’s biography, but as someone who grew up in the South, can tell you that born again Christians leaving the South to go Up North to school – albeit Princeton does have a long history of Southerners attending – are few.

    And those that do leave and go on to attend Harvard Law School, graduate Magna while being a Law Review Editor and founding the Hispanic Law Review do not usually become certifiably bat shit wing nut. Ted Cruz has a bio that likely produces people like the Castro Brothers. Or at least Democrats. (Wonder if Santorum will bring up Cruz’s suspect educational background?)

    I went North to school and never went back South. This is the more frequent pattern. Leaving the South for college is a big deal, and is often motivated by a desire to get out of the racist, socially oppressive surroundings. Leaving Texas for college at all, especially if you’re thinking local political career, is also not the common pattern.

    On the other hand, guys with father issues are a dime a dozen in Presidential Politics – Clinton, Gore, Bush, for example. And Pastor Rafael Bienvenido Cruz, le pere as they say in the land of Ted’s birth, is a new level of BSC.

  108. 108.

    Davis X. Machina

    August 19, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    @Roger Moore: No one reads platforms. The candidate, like a sacrament, is the outward and visible sign of the platform, like grace.

  109. 109.

    jonas

    August 19, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    @MazeDancer: “Hispanic” Law Review? Now we have special law for Hispanic people? Sounds to me like pinko-lib, P.C. identity politics to me! Can’t we just have an “American Law Review?”

  110. 110.

    jonas

    August 19, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    @MazeDancer: I guess GWB is the exception that proves the rule? I think twangy Jesus talk and a good pair of cowboy boots really overcomes a lot of nativism in the South, particularly Texas.

  111. 111.

    mdblanche

    August 19, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    That birth certificate is an obvious fake. It misspelled “Muslin” repeatedly.

    @Jane2: You know, Canada turned into a hardcore petrostate so gradually, I didn’t even notice.

  112. 112.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 19, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    @bcinaz:

    Poke a birther with a stick day was back on the 4th. The day in 1961 that Kenya celebrated the day they’d conquer the United States when Obama was born.

  113. 113.

    pseudonymous in nc

    August 19, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    @PeakVT:

    Cruz was a citizen from the second he popped out, and that’s good enough for me.

    Oh, for sure. I mainly think it’s interesting as an example of a “known unknown”, because you’re likely to see various permutations of this show up over the next few decades, and never get a conclusive SCOTUS ruling on it. Eventually, I’d assume that Congress will get around to striking the clause entirely and allowing naturalized citizens to become president (post-dated X years to exclude current pols) and it’ll all be moot.

  114. 114.

    MazeDancer

    August 19, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    @IowaOldLady:
    Had repressed the ridiculousness of Republicans thinking Palin would appeal to women strictly on the basis of her having two X chromosomes.

    @jonas:
    Have wondered about that Hispanic Law Review thing. First of all, are there enough Hispanic students at Harvard Law to staff a whole review? And, yes, it sounds so Special Interest. And Ted was already on the Law Review. Wouldn’t it better serve, not to mention be more American, to lobby for getting more Hispanic students on the actual Law Review.

    ETA: Oops, wiki error. The name is Harvard Latino Law Review. And it is about laws affecting Hispanics. Probably none of those were immigration or border oriented, right?

    Here’s Harvard link http://harvardllr.com/

  115. 115.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    August 19, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    @IowaOldLady: For 27% of the population, meanness is a feature, not a bug.

  116. 116.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 19, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    @MazeDancer:

    Wouldn’t it better serve, not to mention be more American, to lobby for getting more Hispanic students on the actual Law Review.

    You’d think, but you’re applying normal, sane reason to the issue.

    You have to “think” like a teatard on this. They’re trying desperately to appeal to Hispanics in some way other than actual policy positions. So they try for the ethnic identity angle. Too bad for them that the Hispanics are not as stupid as their fellow teatards, who actually buy this shit.

  117. 117.

    Southern Beale

    August 19, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    @SFAW:

    Apparently she was a serial offender:

    After this soundbite, Chung continued: “Congressman, doesn’t that tell you that an invasion of Iraq is justified?”

    Thompson began to respond: “Connie, we haven’t seen any proof that any of this has happened. I have sat through all the classified briefings on the Armed Services….”

    But this questioning of what Bush said appeared to be too much for Chung. She interrupted Thompson’s answer, saying, “You mean you don’t believe what President Bush just said? With all due respect…you know… I mean, what…”

    Faced with Chung’s obvious alarm that someone might not take Bush’s word as definitive proof, Thompson tried to reassure her: “No, no, that’s not what I said…. I said that there has been nothing in the committee hearing briefings that have substantiated this. If there is substantiation, we need to see that in Congress, not hear it over the television monitor.”

    Later in the broadcast, Chung returned to the question of whether Thompson trusted Bush, suggesting that skepticism toward Bush was equivalent to an endorsement of Saddam Hussein …

    God, I just remember her from the local L.A. news. I didn’t realize she was a fucking imbecile.

  118. 118.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    August 19, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    @The Red Pen: It’s called a seal, and is made of wax and has a raised impression of the stamp used by the jurisdiction he was born in, to wit, Alberta. Unfortunately they don’t scan very well.

    But keep displaying your ignorance; it really helps your cause!

  119. 119.

    Mnemosyne

    August 19, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    @MazeDancer:

    On the other hand, guys with father issues are a dime a dozen in Presidential Politics – Clinton, Gore, Bush, for example.

    Hell, Obama wrote an entire book about his father issues. The urge to Prove Something to Daddy by going into politics is strong.

  120. 120.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    August 19, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    @mdblanche: We sure have up here. People are pissed, and getting ever more so. Harper’s just announced he’s proroguing again, for his third time. The corruption, cronyism, and straight-up authoritarianism (not to mention the bigoted religulosity) of the current regime don’t bode well for their prospects in 2015; I think they’ll continue to do all right in Alberta (where it’s All Big Oil, All The Time) but they are looking at writing off BC, SW Ontario, and their foothold in Quebec.

    Unless we see a ramping up of the election fraud that was rampant in 2010.

  121. 121.

    SFAW

    August 19, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    @Southern Beale:

    She’s like Dennis Miller without the pretense of being a “comedian.” (No, I’m not saying Miller is one, or is even in the same quadrant of the Galaxy as “funny.” A dead gerbil is funnier than Miller. I’m just saying he pretends he is a comedian.)

  122. 122.

    Mnemosyne

    August 19, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:
    @polyorchnid octopunch:

    So putting your two comments together, it’s not a coincidence that Cruz was born in the wingnuttiest province of Canada?
    ;-)

  123. 123.

    Chris

    August 19, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Too bad for them that the Hispanics are not as stupid as their fellow teatards, who actually buy this shit.

    You can’t really blame them; the identity angle has worked so well for them for the last fifty years that they’re slow to realize it’s not working anymore.

    Basically, their remote stopped working. And they haven’t yet realized “battery must be dead, time to get a new one.” They’re still somewhere between the “angrily and repeatedly push all the buttons” stage and the “angrily smack the remote on the table in the hopes that that makes it work again” stage.

  124. 124.

    Citizen_X

    August 19, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    @The Red Pen:

    Another thing that struck me was this: if you look at the posted BC, it features a giant, empty, pink 60-point star in the lower left corner. WTF is that?

    It means Cruz is really a girl.

  125. 125.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 19, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    @The Red Pen: You got to love how even John McCain after having a grandfather who was a WWII hero and himself tortured as a POW isn’t REAL American enough for these assholes.

  126. 126.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 19, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    @Alex S.: Rick Perry too

  127. 127.

    rea

    August 19, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    A child of a US citizen and a foriegn national is not necesarily born a US citizen–it depends on the circumstances. Wikipedia summarizes the rules:

    A person born on or after November 14, 1986, is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:

    “1.The person’s parents were married at time of birth
    “2.One of the person’s parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
    “3.The citizen parent lived at least five years in the United States before the child’s birth
    “4.A minimum of two of these five years in the United States were after the citizen parent’s 14th birthday.
    “INA 301(g) makes additional provisions to satisfy the physical-presence requirements for periods citizens spent abroad in “honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization.” Additionally citizens, who spent time living abroad as the “dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person” in any of the previously mentioned organizations can also be counted.
    * * *
    “Different rules apply for persons born abroad to one U.S. citizen before November 14, 1986. United States law on this subject changed multiple times throughout the twentieth century, and the law is applicable as it existed at the time of the individual’s birth.

    “For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:

    “1.The person’s parents were married at the time of birth
    “2.One of the person’s parents was a U.S. citizen when the person was born
    “3.The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child’s birth;
    “4.A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent’s 14th birthday.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen

    Now note: under these rules, Obama would not be a US citizen if born in Kenya–because his mother had not yeat reached her 19th birthday when he was born ( and so had not lived in the US for 5 years after her 14th birthday–see No. 4). If that seems like a crazy result, well, that’s why they changed the statute.

    Fortunately, Obama was born in Hawaii, not Kenya.

  128. 128.

    MazeDancer

    August 19, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Hell, Obama wrote an entire book about his father issues. The urge to Prove Something to Daddy by going into politics is strong.

    Have sometimes wondered what the percentage is on Proving it to Daddy – especially if Daddy held public office – is as prime motivator for running for office. President, Governor, and Senator especially. Gotta be at least 50%. 75% more likely.

  129. 129.

    Jay in Oregon

    August 19, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    @WaynersT:
    Countdown to some smart aleck requesting his “long form birth certificate” in 5, 4, 3, 2…

  130. 130.

    mdblanche

    August 19, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:

    Harper’s just announced he’s proroguing again

    What is he trying to pull off this time?

  131. 131.

    Roger Moore

    August 19, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    @rea:

    Now note: under these rules, Obama would not be a US citizen if born in Kenya–because his mother had not yeat reached her 19th birthday when he was born ( and so had not lived in the US for 5 years after her 14th birthday–see No. 4).

    Assuming that his parents were legally married, that is. Since Obama Sr. was previously married and not legally divorced, his marriage to Stanley Ann Dunham was probably not legal under US law. That would put Obama II in the category of people whose US citizen mother was not married to their father, and a different set of rules applied. Unless, of course, his parents had gotten married in Kenya, which allowed polygyny.

  132. 132.

    StringOnAStick

    August 19, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    I’ve got a wingnut friend I see once a month; its like getting an extremely condensed version of what Faux has been banging on about recently. Two months ago he was all excited that Zimmerman was considering suing ABC because they kept saying a “Hispanic” guy shot Travon, when “Zimmerman is actually White!” He certainly loved the idea of a member of the evil MSM getting sued; of course in his eyes all media except FAUX is highly suspect.

    This month he was on about Holder’s recent announcement regarding review of nonviolent drug offenders and mandatory sentencing guidelines, absolutely sure that “letting all those black criminals out is going to cause a crime wave!”. He’s sure we’re talking hundreds of thousands of scary criminals, all black of course, though he might have enough mental space for a few of them to be “real” Hispanics.

    His statements about Zimmerman 2 months ago left me fairly sure that the standard Fox-Spews-trained wingnut doesn’t consider “Cuban” to be within the category of “Hispanic”. His recent fear O’ da black man statement about Holder makes it clear he’s still a stone-cold racist, but Cuban doesn’t fall into the wingnut category of “non-white, and therefore scary criminals at heart”. Ted Cruz will be the guy the Fauxitariat wants at the top of the ticket – count on it.

  133. 133.

    Chris

    August 19, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    @StringOnAStick:

    Every now and then, a wingnut gets really really excited over the idea of using our own Political Correctness against us. It usually makes no sense, but there you are.

  134. 134.

    gocart mozart

    August 19, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    @StringOnAStick:
    I agree

  135. 135.

    Mnemosyne

    August 19, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    @rea:

    Now note: under these rules, Obama would not be a US citizen if born in Kenya–because his mother had not yeat reached her 19th birthday when he was born ( and so had not lived in the US for 5 years after her 14th birthday–see No. 4). If that seems like a crazy result, well, that’s why they changed the statute.

    Some interpretations I’ve seen say that it actually meant that the US citizen without enough “in the US” years under his/her belt needed to be living outside of the US — if, say, a pregnant 18-year-old was vacationing in Toronto and went into labor, that didn’t mean that her baby was denied citizenship. So even if the president’s mother had been outside of the US at the time of his birth (and there is absolutely ZERO evidence that such was the case), she would have had to be a resident of that country at the time, not just a visitor.

    But, as you said, the language is a little ambiguous, which is why it had to be changed.

  136. 136.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 19, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    @? Martin: And losing by a landslide.

  137. 137.

    rikyrah

    August 19, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    Steve Dowdy @Steverocks35 7m
    @kjkeenan1950 @JeffersonObama Fun fact: Ted Cruz’s father fought for Fidel Castro in the Cuban Revolution.

  138. 138.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 19, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: And lose by a landslide.

  139. 139.

    xenos

    August 20, 2013 at 1:53 am

    @Felinious Wench: Maybe Cruz could become President of the US and Prime Minister of Canada simultaneously, which would cause the two countries to merge, like with England and Scotland under James I/VI. It would be so cool to get a meme like that shooting through the Freeper community.

  140. 140.

    Alex S.

    August 20, 2013 at 6:24 am

    @xenos:

    Finally, the national shame of 1812 will be redeemed.

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