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You are here: Home / Open Threads / That Should End Those Conspiracies

That Should End Those Conspiracies

by John Cole|  August 21, 201312:37 am| 60 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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DMT, meth, and a Mercedes are quite a combo:

A Los Angeles County coroner’s autopsy found traces of amphetamine and marijuana in the body of journalist Michael Hastings, according to a report released Tuesday.

But the drugs were unlikely to have contributed to the fiery crash that killed Hastings, the report stated. Hastings was unlikely to have been intoxicated at the time of his death.

Hastings died instantly of “massive blunt force trauma consistent with a high speed front-end impact to the sole of the right foot and to the front of the torso.” The impact of the crash, not the resulting fireball, is what killed him.

Hastings had started using drugs after 14 years of being sober, his family told investigators. A brother said that Hastings was “currently using DMT,” an extremely potent but short-lasting psychedelic drug. He also had a medical marijuana card.

DMT, aka Dimethyltryptamine, aka the “Businessman’s Trip,” is not light stuff.

*** Update ***

You know what- the first comment here is right. This will just PROVE how deep the conspiracy goes that even the coroner is involved in the scam…

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Reader Interactions

60Comments

  1. 1.

    different-church-lady

    August 21, 2013 at 12:41 am

    Are you kidding? I can hardly wait to hear how Obama and Holder got the speed into his body after the crash.

  2. 2.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 21, 2013 at 12:41 am

    That Should End Those Conspiracies
    nah, but it will tamp some of them down.

    A real shame. He was a talented and admirable reporter.

  3. 3.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    August 21, 2013 at 12:47 am

    This is just evidence of The Coverup.

  4. 4.

    Mnemosyne

    August 21, 2013 at 12:48 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I read the comments at the link. Mere facts are never enough to put down a good conspiracy.

    Again, as one of the people here who has actually driven on that stretch of Highland, it’s completely plausible to me that someone driving in the early morning at high speed would crash at that transition between wide open, four-lane road and divided two-lane street. But, hey, what do I know, I’m just someone who drove that same route dozens of times when I was doing an internship.

  5. 5.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 21, 2013 at 12:52 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    But, hey, what do I know, I’m just someone who drove that same route dozens of times when I was doing an internship.

    Obviously, Obama and Holder got to you, too, and implanted false memories of driving along that route.

    You can’t stop the crazy. You can only point and laugh at it.

  6. 6.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 21, 2013 at 12:53 am

    That Should End Those Conspiracies

    John, you’re way too old now, and too experienced, to utter something as both naive and jejune as this…

  7. 7.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    August 21, 2013 at 12:54 am

    The actual autopsy (yes I’m that morbid) has some gruesomely graphic descriptions, but notes that death was instantaneous, and was most likely preceded by an LOC. The LA Times put up the report, but be warned.

    Sad all around, but he’d been partying for a bit (witness statements) and was clearly driving very, very fast.

  8. 8.

    Roger Moore

    August 21, 2013 at 12:55 am

    The LA Times is reporting that he was probably suffering from PTSD related to his war reporting; he had a medical marijuana card that was given for PTSD. I wonder if the crash was a suicide. High speed single car crashes often are, and it would be consistent with somebody having a severe crisis.

  9. 9.

    Mnemosyne

    August 21, 2013 at 12:58 am

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    Sorry, what’s an LOC?

  10. 10.

    dp

    August 21, 2013 at 1:03 am

    LOC = loss of consciousness.

    Sad.

  11. 11.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    August 21, 2013 at 1:03 am

    @Mnemosyne: Sorry, loss of consciousness.

  12. 12.

    cthulhu

    August 21, 2013 at 1:09 am

    @Roger Moore: Yeah, I think high speed solo crashes are often the result suicidal impulses but that end up being ambiguous because the event doesn’t seem so planned as with other methods such as firearms, drugs, or jumping.

    Has DMT made a comeback? That drug was fairly rare in its heyday in the sixties.

  13. 13.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 21, 2013 at 1:10 am

    Is it possible that he was coming of the buzz and that triggered a PTSD episode and in the situation he just lost it, and control of the vehicle?

    Wild speculation, but given what he experienced…

  14. 14.

    Jim

    August 21, 2013 at 1:15 am

    I didn’t think there was a test for DMT due to its similarity to all the other serotonin-like molecules in the body, but having done the stuff, I can’t see how anyone could even get into the car, much less make it out of the driveway. I’m not sure I even agree that it’s heavy stuff in light of it having no crappy comedown or hangover. In any event, they look for metabolites, so this doesn’t imply that he was under the influence of any of them at the time – again, driving on DMT is gonna be about as successful as this classic attempt to drive on salvia.

  15. 15.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 21, 2013 at 1:21 am

    @Jim:

    How long do traces of the drug remain in the body, though? I know with marijuana that you’re going to test positive a month after your last use.

  16. 16.

    Roger Moore

    August 21, 2013 at 1:24 am

    @Jim:

    I didn’t think there was a test for DMT due to its similarity to all the other serotonin-like molecules in the body

    If you look for the molecule itself rather than metabolites, you should be able to tell it apart. Hyphenated tandem mass spec techniques are very powerful for that kind of thing.

  17. 17.

    James E. Powell

    August 21, 2013 at 1:29 am

    The coroner found trace amounts and stated that the drugs were unlikely to have contributed to the crash. So why all the chat about drugs?

    Tired driver at high speed is more than sufficient to explain a crash. It could have been worse.

  18. 18.

    Jim

    August 21, 2013 at 1:34 am

    With DMT, I guess it depends on the route of administration, but we’re talking on the order of hours – THC lingers because it’s fat-soluble; DMT, being so close to the same neurotransmitters that are released and degraded in the time it takes you to tap a key on your keyboard, is broken down by the body so rapidly that it has to be either smoked (in which case the effects last like 5 minutes) or taken in combination with an MAOI (in which case it lasts several hours).

    Either way, I don’t believe there’s even any scientific literature in support of a way to detect it. Really not buying this claim at face value at all. Not saying the coroner is in on a conspiracy, just seems like BS. Even a mass spec for the molecule itself seems crazy given the pharmacokinetics involved – the half-life is probably under 5 minutes, and there’s an extremely rapid uptake from the blood to the brain.

  19. 19.

    Roger Moore

    August 21, 2013 at 1:37 am

    @James E. Powell:
    The drugs are interesting because his abusing them is an indication of his general mental state. He had apparently had drug problems earlier in his life, straightened out, and just started up again recently. That’s a sign that he was in some distress, apparently PTSD.

  20. 20.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 21, 2013 at 1:39 am

    @James E. Powell:

    Agreed.

    However, the drug angle is sizzle that you sell, rather than the boring old steak.

  21. 21.

    Keith P

    August 21, 2013 at 1:40 am

    Interesting factoid about DMT – you can order the roots of the ayahuasca plant online. Legal to buy and grow. (IIRC, you can also still order magic mushroom spores online, but it’s not legal to grow the spores)

  22. 22.

    trollhattan

    August 21, 2013 at 1:43 am

    Lead was a conspiracy, as was tobacco. H/T LGM

    Lead is a known neurotoxin, and in 1979, Herb Needleman published a paper in the New England Journal of Medicine. He measured the lead content of shed milk teeth, a far more accurate indication of childhood exposure than measuring blood lead levels. He demonstrated a dose-dependent relationship between increasing lead content and a wide range of psychometric measures, including poor organisational ability, lower IQ, distractibility, and impulsivity.

    The lead industry was incandescent. Needleman’s work was subjected to hostile critiques and he was reported for scientific misconduct.

    In 2011, the UN announced that it had been successful in phasing out leaded petrol from almost every country in the world, apart from Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia, Burma and Afghanistan. It stated: “Ridding the world of leaded petrol has resulted in $2.4 trillion in annual benefits, 1.2 million fewer premature deaths, higher average intelligence, and 58m fewer crimes.’

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/19/fracking-debate-lead-petrol-harmful

  23. 23.

    Tripod

    August 21, 2013 at 1:47 am

    Anyone open to the possibility that he was just a jackass who grossly overrated his mad driving skillz?

  24. 24.

    Mnemosyne

    August 21, 2013 at 1:47 am

    @James E. Powell:

    The coroner found trace amounts and stated that the drugs were unlikely to have contributed to the crash. So why all the chat about drugs?

    Mostly because he was an admitted alcoholic and drug user who had recently relapsed. Some reports said that his brother (who he was supposed to meet at the airport) was flying in to convince him to go back to rehab.

    G read Hastings’ book long before this happened and was completely unsurprised (saddened, but not surprised) because Hastings has an entire chapter about a weeklong bender he went on in Dubai, mixed with musings about the kind of person who becomes a war correspondent. Hastings was a very smart and talented guy, and he was able to write about his own self-destructive streak even if he was unable to solve it.

  25. 25.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 21, 2013 at 2:04 am

    @James E. Powell:

    Tired driver at high speed is more than sufficient to explain a crash. It could have been worse.

    Nonsense, as you can see the car struck the fifth palm at a 32′ angle. How much clear can They make it? Wake up Shepple.

  26. 26.

    Irony Abounds

    August 21, 2013 at 2:12 am

    @James E. Powell:

    It could have been worse? I dunno, death seems pretty high on the scale of bad things to happen.

  27. 27.

    Mnemosyne

    August 21, 2013 at 2:15 am

    @Irony Abounds:

    That whole part of the street is residential — in the original video that was posted on LA Weekly, one of the residents was out on his lawn hosing down the street so no one’s house caught fire. If this had happened later in the day, another car or someone’s kid could have been in the path of Hastings’ car.

    So, yeah, it could have been worse — Hastings could have taken other people with him.

  28. 28.

    James E. Powell

    August 21, 2013 at 2:44 am

    @Irony Abounds:

    There could have been other cars, other people minding their own business. Even late at night, that part of LA is not exactly deserted.

  29. 29.

    AxelFoley

    August 21, 2013 at 2:44 am

    Wait, there’s people that think President Obama and Atty. General Holder had this guy offed?

    Right wing loons or left wing loons?

  30. 30.

    ruemara

    August 21, 2013 at 2:45 am

    Didn’t Dick Van Dyke’s fancy car burst into flame from some car trouble? You don’t need conspiracy when drugs and a crash will do just as well. RIP, Mr. Hastings. I’m sorry life hurt you so bad and no one was there to help you stay out of that car and away from the drugs.

  31. 31.

    I smoked it once

    August 21, 2013 at 2:47 am

    @Jim: Agree — I found it fascinating and compelling but also totally incapacitating. You go bye-bye for about five minutes (or an indeterminate time subjectively). Amazing trip, but once was enough.

  32. 32.

    Narcissus

    August 21, 2013 at 3:04 am

    Drug use just cements the conspiracy.

    Next you’ll tell me they found pornography and a gun in the glove compartment.

    Also Al Jazeera America does rock

  33. 33.

    bago

    August 21, 2013 at 3:53 am

    N,N-DMT or 5-MeO-DMT? Either way you metabolize the crap out of that stuff and are chemically baseline in minutes. Now the Alpha variant….

    However, car accidents are FAR more lethal than tryptamines and cannabinoids.

    Edit: What Jim said.

  34. 34.

    bago

    August 21, 2013 at 4:09 am

    Hay Zeus de Cristo! He hit that tree HARD! The engine was ejected from the car.

  35. 35.

    Anya

    August 21, 2013 at 7:22 am

    I will just remember him as a talented and a dedicated reporter who earned respect and admiration.

    But why is Obama supposed to hated him, didn’t he do him a favor when he exposed General Mcchrystal?

  36. 36.

    sherparick

    August 21, 2013 at 7:32 am

    @trollhattan: I think one could argue that just elimination of lead has paid for the entire cost of environmental regulation of everything these last 40 years, times 2. But because no one has made a buck on it to their personal profit, while it has cost the lead miners and the petrochemical corporations a couple of pennies off their profits, along with proving the benefit of Government, particularly Federal regulation, and the way the U.N. works a massive welfare benefit throughout the world, this causes a Sad for Randian Overlords at National Review.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/337398/lead-and-crime-jim-manzi

  37. 37.

    jon

    August 21, 2013 at 7:49 am

    The Illuminati, Berlin Motor Works, NSA, and Rolling Stone did it using remote access via onboard computers and Perez Hilton’s spy network. Colonel Mustard was unavailable for comment.

  38. 38.

    PopeRatzo

    August 21, 2013 at 8:47 am

    You posted it, but you didn’t read it.

    But the drugs were unlikely to have contributed to the fiery crash that killed Hastings, the report stated. Hastings was unlikely to have been intoxicated at the time of his death.

    So, this important news that completely exonerates the Obama administration from ever having done anything wrong, ever, really adds nothing to the story but the smear of a dead man and casting of doubts on any story he ever wrote.

    Soon, we’ll hear about how Aaron Schwartz was a serial masturbator and Edward Snowden has gender issues. Oh wait, they already used that one on Brad Manning.

  39. 39.

    Tripod

    August 21, 2013 at 9:14 am

    @bago:

    I’ve seen estimates of 60 mph, and this wasn’t on a multi-lane, mega arterial with limited cross streets. He was bombing down a tight city street without regard to anyone’s safety. Whatever the other aspects of his life, and pre-meditated or not, this was a dick move.

  40. 40.

    Thlayli

    August 21, 2013 at 9:15 am

    @PopeRatzo:

    Not sure if serious, but just in case:

    Oh wait, they already used that one on Brad Manning.

    “They” being Manning’s defense counsel.

  41. 41.

    Jack the Second

    August 21, 2013 at 9:39 am

    The thing about the armies of ninja assassins the tinfoil brigrade sees behind every tragic accident is that they would almost make things better. It would be something we could fix. Expose it and there would be public outcry, indictments, resignations from every level of government. People would go to jail. Journalists would win awards. There’d be a blockbuster the next summer and fourteen TV movies the next week.

    The government doesn’t need ninja assassins. They can destroy you through their utterly boring, utterly unstoppable steamroller of “being the government”. My favorite was the executive who broke the government’s heart by refusing to go along with their secret domestic spying. After cutting all of the secret contracts to the company — which the executive was party to but forbidden to disclose — they put him in jail for insider trading. You see, he had bought & sold stock during the many years these secret contracts existed, which gave him non-public knowledge, and therefore, he was insider trading. He went to jail and no one gives a damn.

    You can be shot dead in your own home when the police bust down your door on a no-knock warrant for the house next door. It was a reasonable mistake for the police to make, it was quite dark and it’s not like they can knock and ask first on a no-knock raid, and anyway it was your own fault for scaring those poor police officers like that. Why does the government need ninja assassins?

  42. 42.

    Lol

    August 21, 2013 at 9:42 am

    @Thlayli:

    Just proves Obama got to Manning’s defense attorney.

  43. 43.

    Jess Sane

    August 21, 2013 at 9:51 am

    @AxelFoley: Right wing loons or left wing loons? At this point, there’s getting to be less and less of a difference. There’s one degree of separation between Wikileaks and David Duke.

  44. 44.

    negative 1

    August 21, 2013 at 9:54 am

    @cthulhu: Yes, it has among the youth of today. People like the fact that it doesn’t last all night. Still, it’s a long few minutes, and all psychedelics have the potential for disaster.

  45. 45.

    roc

    August 21, 2013 at 10:14 am

    @James E. Powell:

    why all the chat about drugs?

    Because it said “amphetamines” and there aren’t a whole lot of responsible amphetamine users.

    The chat about pot and DMT — if he wasn’t high at the time — is neither here nor there. That’s just a thorough medical report and the tabloid press doing what they do.

    But his being back on amphetamines blows the whole foundation of suspicion. The (conspiracy) theories all rest on: “why would a (sober) journalist be tearing down a residential street for no reason?” But he wasn’t (sober). He was clearly in a very bad place making very bad decisions.

  46. 46.

    kindness

    August 21, 2013 at 10:47 am

    DMT….yea I’ve done it. Ever do nitrous oxide? DMT lasts about as long as a nitrous balloon. Our bodies have lots of enzymes in them that immediatly break it down so unless you’ve eaten an enzyme blocker (which is what the early beat poets did) you get this intense psychedelic experience that lasts about a minute or two. Usually smoked. Tastes awful. It is so intense it freaks some out but it’s so quick they come back to earth almost right away. I could not imagine walking around for 6 hours under that influence. But some folks have done it. Not me.

  47. 47.

    kindness

    August 21, 2013 at 10:58 am

    @negative 1:

    all psychedelics have the potential for disaster.

    While that is potentially true I know way more folk that had positive life experiences with the stuff than those I saw who had disasterous experiences. Yes I’ve talked more than a couple of friends down but that is how we handled it back in the 70s. But I also had a whole bunch of insights and fun that I otherwise would never have been able to comprehend. I don’t recommend people do drugs. But if you are going to do them, there are ways to do them responsibly.

  48. 48.

    The Moar You Know

    August 21, 2013 at 11:03 am

    It’s quite the autopsy report. He hit hard enough to break his neck, his skull (Dale Earnhart/hangman’s fracture) and to tear his heart loose. The engine tore loose from the car and ended up in the next block’s intersection. Lower right side of his body from his foot to his pelvis all broken – he had the pedal mashed to the floor hard. Draw your own conclusions.

    No mention of airbags. Don’t know if the car had them. Sometimes they won’t go off if you hit a tree/pole.

    Probably not possible to die any more quickly than he did.

  49. 49.

    T. Scheisskopf

    August 21, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Moral of the story: Don’t play craps with your brain. You need it.

    Admittedly, some more than others.

  50. 50.

    daniel thomas macinnes

    August 21, 2013 at 11:21 am

    This is the longest DMT discussion in history not to name-drop Terence McKenna. Weird. And, technically, we’re all guilty of holding DMT, as it’s a neurotransmitter in the brain.

  51. 51.

    Li

    August 21, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Well, one of those loons is the former U.S. National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism Richard Clarke:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/24/michael-hastings-car-hacked_n_3492339.html

    But, I’m not sure he can be pinned as a left wing or right wing loon as he worked under both the Bush and Clinton administrations. And hacking a new car in the way he described is technically possible. But that would require a conspiracy, and as we know, no one ever conspires to murder anyone. Murders are always totally above board, non-secret affairs. And of course, the coroner says that he was ‘unlikely to have been intoxicated at the time of his death’ so drugs (including a neurotransmitter that is in everyone’s brain) definitely explain it. Case closed.

  52. 52.

    the Conster

    August 21, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    @daniel thomas macinnes:

    The Archaic Revival is one of my all time favorite books. The guy had some really interesting theories.

  53. 53.

    Joey Giraud

    August 21, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    @Li:

    There’s a strong need to deny that the world can contain competent bad actors.

    These “let’s make fun of tinfoil” threads are most echo-chambery.

  54. 54.

    lethargytartare

    August 21, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    @Joey Giraud:

    There’s a strong need to deny that the world can contain random, meaningless, death.

    These “it must be foul play” threads are most puerile

  55. 55.

    Joey Giraud

    August 21, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    @lethargytartare:

    Heh. I see what you did there.

  56. 56.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 21, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    It’s always the question. Given that there are real conspiracies that operate in the world, but there are also a lot of really stupid conspiracy theories, how do you make the distinction?

    I think the standard observation is that if evidence comes in that’s against the conspiracy, and the reaction is not to refine the idea in any way but just to make the imagined conspiracy bigger so it can fake the evidence, you’re probably dealing with someone who is immune to having their ideas tested in the real world. Conspiracies can fake evidence but not without limit.

    I have other guidelines. I’ve heard a lot of them that have some scientific angle. As a general rule, any idea that requires the conspiracy to successfully cover up secret laws of physics for more than a couple of years is probably a non-starter. The Manhattan Project, through extreme wartime secrecy, did manage to keep the Nazis from learning some details of critical masses and such… but not the Soviets.

  57. 57.

    Mnemosyne

    August 21, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    @Li:

    So, just to be clear, you find it more plausible that his car was hacked than that he got into an accident driving at 4:00 am in an unfamiliar area at speeds exceeding 100 miles an hour?

    Tell me, how many times have you driven through that intersection? As I said above, I’ve done it dozens of times, and I find the account of the accident completely plausible. How many times have you been there? Just a round number is fine.

  58. 58.

    Ilya

    August 21, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    How did Hastings afford a Mercedes? I don’t think Rolling Stone pays its journos THAT well…

  59. 59.

    Ilya

    August 21, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    How did Hastings afford a Mercedes? I don’t think Rolling Stone pays its journos THAT well…

  60. 60.

    GeneJockey

    August 21, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Treat any conspiracy theory as you would any other hypothesis. Hypotheses make testable predictions, so if your conspiracy theory requires a violation of the laws of physics, or that thousands of people all tell a huge lie with catastrophic potential consequences, for nothing more than daily living expenses, and that none of them spills the beans, then you have a problem.

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