Hrmm:
One day after being sentenced to 35 years in prison for leaking vast archives of secret government files to WikiLeaks, Pfc. Bradley Manning said Thursday that he is female and wants to be known as Chelsea.
In a statement read on the “Today” show during an appearance by his defense lawyer, David E. Coombs, Private Manning said he had felt that he was female since childhood, a fact that was discussed during his court-martial.
“As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me,” the statement said. “I am Chelsea Manning. I am a female. Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition.”
The statement went on to request that Private Manning’s supporters “refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun (except in official mail to the confinement facility).” It was signed, “Chelsea Manning.”
I suppose the best part of this will be listening to “fiscal conservatives” who said nothing when pallets of cash just disappeared in Iraq bitching about the cost of hormone therapy. I just hope that kid finds some peace.
Soonergrunt
” I just hope that kid finds some peace.”
This.
celticdragonchick
I wish her luck. This was not the best road to choose for transition.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Seriously?
askew
When I first saw this title, I thought it was going to be John Cole finally admitting that his admiration of Greenwald blinded him to that fact that Greenwald and the Guardian have been playing fast and loose about the Miranda incident as well as the entire Snowden affair. I guess John is just planning ignoring the Guardian/Greenwald being caught in yet another lie.
aimai
@Soonergrunt: This. This poor kid.
Suzanne
@Soonergrunt: Word.
Though I had heard that she was trans many months ago—is this really a surprise?
Cris (without an H)
Me neither, but Amanda Marcotte says that “this announcement comes as no big surprise to people who have been following the case closely and know that Manning was already transitioning before arrest.”
WereBear
Cries for help can get very complicated. I wonder how much this was involved in the events that led up to this tragedy?
Suzanne
I fear she will be assaulted in Leavenworth about 10 minutes after she gets there.
Buffalo Rude
@Soonergrunt: Right on.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@celticdragonchick:
Is there an easy road?
I’ve got a friend who’s in the midst of her transition, and…Well, she came in with some other issues anyway- ADHD, John Birch Society member, Latin Mass Catholic, Cubs fan. One of the most interesting people I know. The process has been harrowing.
MattF
…aaaand the usual idiots are on the case:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/08/22/erick_erickson_leads_the_conservative_charge_against_chelsea_manning_on.html
Why is compassion so hard for them? I don’t get that.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
I wish Pfc. Manning well. Of all the existential pranks the Trickster God(dess) has played on humans, gender dysphoria has to be the most difficult to handle.
LesGS
I did see something like this coming, and when I saw the length of her sentence, I got a knot in my stomach. Sooner was saying that she *might* be getting out in 9 years. Waiting 9 years at the *least* to be getting hormone therapy would be maddening. I hope she can get the medical treatment she needs behind bars.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Cris (without an H):
I don’t think you had to be following all that closely to have read about this in the run-up to the court martial.
Long Tooth
It’s like Mel Brooks wrote the ending to an otherwise profoundly important trial.
Soonergrunt
@Suzanne: She will be in restricted confinement–meeting with staff and medical personnel only–for the first several days. From the interviews and other observations, placement will be determined for her.
The military does not offer either hormone therapy or gender reassignment surgery to prisoners.
I honestly don’t know what’s going to happen here and I haven’t heard back from any of my friends and sources, all Defense lawyers at the military bar, to my questions about this except from the one who replied “no fucking clue.”
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
This is a transparent attempt to get into a woman’s prison. I’d have probably done the same thing.
Jane2
The really sad thing is that this story is getting more attention from the US press than almost all of Manning’s detention and trial did.
Betty Cracker
Guess what else? Wingnut assholes are being assholes about Manning’s announcement. I think we all saw that coming.
ETA: MattF beat me to it.
EthylEster
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): yeah, i agree. everytime i saw a pic of Manning, I was struck by how small she was. she must have taken a lot of shit off of folks in the military.
Emma
@MattF: Because compassion would require them to acknowledge they’re not the absolute center of God’s Universe.
I feel horribly sorry for her. The army’s not likely to provide her the proper medical treatment and it’s going to be at least eight years until she’s up for parole. She can’t catch a break.
Jane2
@WereBear: About a year ago, I saw an excellent background video on Manning produced (and maybe still available) at the Guardian web site. It really pointed to Manning’s personal issues and demons, and I’m not surprised that he wants gender reassignment.
lol
I’d probably have more sympathy if Manning hadn’t been running that trans-panic defense at trial.
BruceFromOhio
@MattF: Why is compassion so hard for them? I don’t get that.
It’s not hard. It’s impossible.
Arclite
So, uh, which prison does she go to? Men’s, or women’s? She hasn’t had an operation removing her (his?) man parts has she?
Culture of Truth
I don’t know if the military will provide hormone therapy if someone else pays for it, but if Spike Lee and Zach Braff can raise millions off kickstarter, it should be no problem to raise $100 / month from Manning’s many supporters to pay for her treatments.
Alexandra
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:
That’s terribly cynical… and not with the track record that we know already exists. Trans people aren’t usually that calculating. The whole thing is a tremendous strain and a terrible psychic burden to have on your hands.
What’s far more likely is, something along the lines of reaching an crucial existential crisis point in your life and figuring that there’s little left to lose.
Have some empathy and compassion.
Arclite
@MattF:
Obviously she didn’t pick herself up by her bootstraps while she was in solitary, that’s why.
Mnemosyne
@Arclite:
IIRC, the general policy is to assign prisoners to the prison that houses people of the gender they identify with, for their own safety. If that can’t be done, then they’re housed alone, again for safety reasons.
boatboy_srq
@WereBear: After Soonergrunt, THIS.
I can’t help but wonder, since the original incident predates DADT repeal by some time, how much Assange and Wikileaks knew of this beforehand, and whether they exerted any – um, pressure – on Manning to cough up the documents. “Tell us what you know, or we’ll have a little chat with your superiors…” has been useful making all sorts of non-hetero folk spill some pretty awful beans. There was at least one scandal in the 80s where a bunch of British intelligence folks were summarily tried and imprisoned for leaking to the Soviets because the KGB figured out they were LGB and threatened to out them. Thatcher’s Puritanism didn’t help matters there. The intel folks were faced with either immediate dishonorable discharges and loss of security clearance, benefits, pensions, the whole ball’o’wax, or compromising UK intel efforts just to keep the whole thing quiet. Not that Manning’s information isn’t worth knowing/discussing/investigating, but Assange never struck me as the squeaky-clean type, either.
Suzanne
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: From what I understand, she was dressing/presenting as female on occasion before joining the Army. So if you’re right, that means she’d been “pretending” to be a woman long before she even committed a crime, all because she was planning to commit a crime while in the Army, get convicted, and then get sent to her choice of prison.. Strains credulity.
boatboy_srq
@MattF: Because you play the cards you’re dealt at
birthconception, and anything else is unGawdly, unRighteous and otherwise Teh Wrong, so Shut Up.Same reason LGBT is “a choice” and “curable” for these wingnuts: it’s all about Teh Sin and how one is supposed to resist it because That’s What Xtians Do.
Soonergrunt
This is disgusting:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/22/how-will-chelsea-manning-be-treated-in-prison.html
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@EthylEster:
It wasn’t the look. Did you see my comment to celticdragonchick about my friend who’s transitioning? If you only saw him (ETA: Before she went public), there’s no way in hell you’d think transgendered.
No, it’s just that it was mentioned in a lot of the articles to which Soonergrunt linked over the last few years. It was out there, and it wasn’t reported as rumor.
scav
@Suzanne: Aahhh! There’s how it’s Obama’s fault, he’s been in the Tardis again! And infiltrating SSM tolerence into the armed forces and society must be another part of his deep deep cunning plan!
aimai
@Mnemosyne: The poor kid was already “Housed alone” for a really long time. Hard to believe that there is going to be a good outcome for this situation whichever prison system she gets put in. Its also hard to believe that the Military are going to honor the basic humanitarian issue here.
Suzanne
@Soonergrunt: “Celibacy won’t be an option”.
Uh, yeah, that’s one way to put it.
Jesus Christ.
I will never understand why it seems to be so hard to JUST NOT PUT YOUR DICK IN PLACES IT SHOULDN’T GO.
Jack the Second
On the brighter side, if he’s denied hormone replacement therapy, etc, for the next ten to thirty years, I imagine the medicine will be much better and safer by then.
Alexandra
That’s the bottom line. No-one chooses this. You think gay people get ostracised? Try telling your friends and family that you’re trans. Try working out how you’re going to walk a very heavy road…
Thanks for posting this here, John. People have been chattering about it all day, getting their jokes and laughs in.
To me, it’s highly illustrative why conservatives punch above their electoral weight: they tend to stick together, letting elements of their coalition take their turn. Fickle liberals and their defensive crouches, when they’re not chasing ponies, are a right pain in the arse.
Alexandra
@Jack the Second:
Doesn’t work that way. Not only have we reached a solid understanding of best practice in hormone administration, there’s nothing to be gained from delay. Testosterone has a cumulative effect over time that’s impossible to fully reverse, particularly with hair loss.
David Fud
@Suzanne: Ummm, because for some men, that is part of the allure. (Apparently. I wouldn’t know anything about that, of course).
Ted & Hellen
@Soonergrunt:
You are the single most inauthentic person on this blog, FP or commenter.
Asshole.
scav
@David Fud: Well, then, advertise the sheer thrilling verbotenness of live toasters in running showers.
moderateindy
So would her condition be considered a medical, or psychological condition, or both? It is “curable”; gender reassignment surgery would fix the physical condition and mental condition of being a female caught in a male’s body. But, I don’t feel it is something that the gov’t should pay for, at least under our screwed up current medical system. Say she had a knee that needed surgery at some point, but was not something that she could not live with. Should the tax payers be on the hook for that cost, or should she have to wait till she was released to get that operation? Of course if someone else pays for it, (Julian Assange, cough, cough) then I don’t see how anyone can legitamately argue against it
Mnemosyne
@aimai:
There’s not much other choice if she can’t be put in a women’s area (which, by the way, has not been decided one way or the other just yet — it sounds like they’re still figuring out what to do). You can’t put a transgender woman into a cell with male roommates, for her own safety.
The Army actually does have a more tightly-regulated prison system than the civilian one, so the odds of her being dumped into the general population of a men’s prison are probably pretty low. But it sounds like it’s a situation that the Army has never had to deal with before.
Lavocat
I’m amazed at the psychological strength of this person.
And I am truly grateful that there are Chelsea Mannings among us to prod us into being better citizens.
You go, girl!
Roger Moore
@boatboy_srq:
Unless, of course, the cards you’re dealt include ambiguous genitals, in which case you should be surgically assigned a gender at birth. Because we wouldn’t want nature throwing us a curveball, am I right.
Amir Khalid
The more I learn about Manning, the more I feel sorry for this messed-up kid, and the more mystified I am that the US Army ever let him/her enlist. How did the psychological screening part of the process manage not to flag Manning as unsuitable?
Lavocat
@askew: Seriously? Lots of projection going on here.
Alexandra
@Ted & Hellen:
You know something? I’ve been reading your shit for years and I’m not sure whether you’re some running gag, a sock-puppet or just some genital wart who’s learned to write…
…but you really come across as reprehensible and wretchedly abject human being. And your handle sucks too. It’s incredible how pathetic it is. Give it, and us, a fucking rest just for once, will you?
You bring nothing of any merit to this place. You’re not even witty or funny. And you’re cowardly, attacking the front pager for their stance instead of engaging with those who know far more about the topic than you do.
You should be ashamed to post such embarrassing shit while grown-ups look on. Do yourself a favour and go the fuck away.
scav
OT, but when kharma breaks out the irony, she sometimes uses a bucketloader: An ‘aporkalypse’ has Texas fighting losing battle against feral pig menace.
Mnemosyne
@Amir Khalid:
Because they were desperate for recruits. I remember seeing stories at the time that the armed forces were lowering their standards in order to meet their goals, so they were enlisting people with several criminal convictions, etc., just because they needed warm bodies for Iraq and Afghanistan.
Obviously, enlisting convicted criminals and enlisting transgendered people is not the same thing (duh!) but it’s possible Manning was rushed/pressured into a decision by a recruiter who needed to fill a quota. Add in the fact that she was probably trying to deny her own gender difficulties, and we have the mess you see now.
Alexandra
@moderateindy:
It’s seen primarily as a psychiatric condition, so definitely medical. In many cases, but not all, it can be life-threatening if not appropriately addressed.
Ted & Hellen
Don’t really get why you folks keep reading right wing bigot hate spew and then reporting how revolted you are…what did you expect?
Ted & Hellen
@Alexandra:
Fuck you, bint.
lamh36
Ugh, Tom Coburn can suck it. Is he retiring?
GOP Sen. Coburn: Obama Getting ‘Perilously Close’ To Impeachable Offenses
scav
I think we’re being chided for reading someone’s own comments. How meta.
Soonergrunt
@Amir Khalid: There is no psychological testing done for recruits, other than asking the recruit whether or not he/she has ever had or is currently undergoing any kind of of psychological/psychiatric treatment or has ever taken or is currently taking certain kinds of medication. There’s a police background check done, but that wouldn’t have found anything.
It came out in the trial that Manning never had anything that could consistently be called treatment with respect to psychological or psychiatric issues until she was in Iraq on deployment.
during the clearance investigation, it used to be that psych treatment had to be disclosed, but that was changed in 2008 or 2009 because personnel who had security clearances were avoiding seeking mental health treatment for PTSD, among other things. At the time that decision was made, it was pretty universally heralded in the military and the mental health communities.
Ted & Hellen
@Alexandra:
SG is an admitted killer and reliable fellator of the MIC and all things authoritarian as long as they have the stars and stripes stuck on them. I don’t believe for one second that he has any wish for Chelsea Manning to “find peace” and I find his comment to that effect extremely inauthentic.
If you don’t like that, as I said above, fuck you bint. Take your self righteous act somewhere else.
Mnemosyne
@Alexandra:
If it’s generally considered psychiatric, then she may be in luck — a prison can’t legally deny medication to a schizophrenic or bipolar prisoner, so I don’t think they would be able to argue that she should be denied hormone therapy that is for her psychiatric benefit. It might be kind of a pain to find a qualified doctor to figure out and monitor the dosage, but courts (including military ones) don’t generally consider “it was too hard” as a valid excuse not to administer care.
Anoniminous
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:
Transsexuals are 28% more likely to be the victim of violence and have a 41% suicide rate. It’s not something one announces to “get into a woman’s prison.”
Alexandra
@Ted & Hellen:
See, that’s exactly what I mean. Are you eight years old? No wit, no grace, no intelligence, no class, no redeeming qualities whatsoever. This place deserves far better trolls instead of this childish misogynistic bullshit.
Besides. you wish, but you couldn’t afford me. Go stick a gag in your mouth and have a feeble wank instead, since I know you can barely get it up.
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
People still read your comments and are always revolted, so I guess it’s human nature.
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
Nobody should spend that much time talking about pie.
BillinGlendaleCA
@lamh36:
Yes.
Amir Khalid
@Soonergrunt:
Thanks for that clarification.
dollared
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Sure you’re not talking about Georg(ia) Will? Cubs, John Birch, Latin mass……
Alexandra
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t know. I do know a lot about trans issues, but I don’t know shit about the US Army and how it handles things… and I’m careful not to speculate.
JPL
@lamh36: If I walk into a bank, am I perilously close to robbing it? We are entering dangerous times because these jerks have a forum.
Anoniminous
@lamh36:
One of Coburn’s election issues in 2004 was a lesbian epidemic in girl’s bathrooms in Oklahoma.
The man is unhinged
@BillinGlendaleCA
Praise jeebus
cathyx
What a situation to be in where you get to pick what your own name will be when you change to the opposite sex. I never thought about what my male name would be if I were to change.
chopper
so now it’s pretending to be british? lol, like madonna with her fake fuckin’ accent.
? Martin
That, I think we all agree on.
chopper
@cathyx:
“Jahooswey”
Soonergrunt
@Alexandra: NPR said this morning that a DoD spokesman said that the military does not do either hormone replacement therapy or gender reassignment surgery for prisoners at any military confinement facility. NPR did not elaborate on the story.
Bill E Pilgrim
I just want to heh indeedy some your posts recently John, it’s refreshing, at this blog at least, to see someone not so caught by loyalties one way or the other that he can see more than a binary world. Not that rare among the bloggers so much but, er, below.
I guess for me the curious part is not the mystery of how you can possibly refrain from hating Glenn Greenwald but how in the world the blog became populated with so many newfound rabid authoritarians that simply refusing to go along with them makes it seem like “trolling” them. What a weird concept.
Soonergrunt
@Anoniminous: Oh, yeah. Coburn is crazier than a shit house rat. but he comes by his crazy honestly. Our senior Senator, Inhofe is just plain crooked.
cathyx
@chopper: Is that the name you would pick?
sparky
@cathyx: Malcolm?
LeftWingCracker
John, to throw this completely off-topic, here’s something else you didn’t see coming:
http://deadspin.com/heres-bill-cowher-wearing-eye-shadow-in-his-girlfriend-1185032373
Felonius Monk
@MattF:
Because they truly are ASSHOLES?
TG Chicago
@MattF:
It seems fear and hatred of anything outside of their straight, white, abled, fundamentalist “Christian”, rightwing norm is the very thing that leads people to be “conservatives”.
As a Christian, I’ll never understand how people can claim to follow the teachings of Jesus while holding such contempt and scorn for fellow human beings. Which Bible do they own that gives examples of Jesus laughing at people who are going through difficult times?
cathyx
@sparky: It’s a big decision. You have live with it and realize everyone will be calling you that name. Do you pick a name of someone that you like with that name? Do you ask your friends what name you like like you would have? It’s not the same as naming your child because it won’t be your own name.
lamh36
@BillinGlendaleCA: Then I just don’t understand this need to be such an idiot if he ain’t getting re-elected
Alexandra
@Soonergrunt:
Well, that’s their policy, I guess. Although the word ‘do’ in terms of HRT can be read in many different ways. It’s a terrible situation to be in and I have a great deal of sympathy, especially when I know the lengths that some transpeople go to avoid tackling their dysphoria.
I kinda hope that there will be a presidential pardon at some point, or at least some quiet pulling of strings.
Felonius Monk
@TG Chicago:
I don’t think many of them actually own a Bible, at least not one that they’ve ever read. Religion (i.e. the Christian religion) is, for them, only a tool to beat their political opponents over the head with. It is not a belief system that guides their lives.
Soonergrunt
@Soonergrunt: I’ll extend for a moment. Military prisoners can be transferred to the federal correctional system run by the US Bureau of Prisons, where treatment for GID may be available (I don’t know) under the regulations that govern the Army Clemency and Parole Board, they then fall out of the ACPBs jurisdiction. The BOP does not gain any jurisdiction over their sentences, and the rules for federal civilian prisoners parole eligibility would then apply. In other words, if she were to transfer to BOP custody (assuming that BOP would treat GID) then she would not be eligible for parole until she had served 85% of her sentence of 35 years, or 29.75 years, instead of the 30% eligibility, 13 years, in the military correctional system.
Pretrial confinement credit–I don’t know if that would transfer or how.
chopper
@cathyx:
that’s the name i’d want you to have.
Roger Moore
@lamh36:
He’s just saying what he believes. If he hasn’t said anything that crazy before, you are left with the possibility that he’s always been that crazy but has been toning it down for electability reasons. Scary concept, huh?
Soonergrunt
@Alexandra: If the Obama Admin sticks to their current policy with regards to presidential pardons, no, there will not be a pardon for her. I read something today that said the current policy of the Pardon Attorney’s office is that petitioners must have served their sentence or been paroled by the system and have been out for at least 5 years without any run-ins with the law.
? Martin
@lamh36:
Maybe it just comes naturally.
Roger Moore
@TG Chicago:
You know how they print some of the words in the Bible in red; that’s to show that those parts are optional. They’re that kind of Christian.
J R in WV
@Amir Khalid:
There really is no such thing as psychological screening for enlisting into the Armed Forces. That’s how we get war crimes committed by solo crazies.
I have a lot of sympathy for Private Manning. Going to be a long lonely road.
Anoniminous
@Alexandra:
If you haven’t, you should see the Belgium film Ma vie en rose. Very good exploration of issues surrounding transsexualism.
@Soonergrunt:
Of the two I’ll take crooked. Our ex-Senator Domenici could have been used, as is, for the railing for a spiral staircase but he could be
bribedgoaded into doing the right thing.And break time over. Back to work.
MazeDancer
Had always noticed that then PFC Manning was very short. being 5’2″, in fact, and slight looking. And wondered if that presented any difficulties in the macho world of the military. Which was a little sexist, since height doesn’t really matter. But guess that was not really of importance.
Being trans gender is such a rough road in our society. I have only met one woman born in a man’s body. So, really, I know nothing as they say.
This woman was quite wealthy. And had paid for the best transition money could buy. But it wasn’t the sleek, fashionable outside that made her feel just as girly girl and 100% female as I am. She just was. She seemed as natural a woman as I, and all my female friends. (And that includes 10 years of girls’ schools.) I liked her as a person. But was – somewhat selfishly, I realize – incredibly grateful to have met her. Because just meeting her helped me understand how people are the gender they are inside, no matter what else shows.
If now Private Manning is that kind of born woman, why she went in the military has to be a very complicated bag of unreason. Like everyone said, may she find peace.
aimai
@Alexandra: Righteous. And Well said.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@J R in WV: This, from Wiki, is a little vague, but I seem to remember one of Manning’s superiors had recommended agaist assignment to Intelligence on psychological grounds
Alexandra
@Soonergrunt:
Well, that’s too bad. It’s a serious mire to be in and I have no idea how Private Manning and those around her who love her are going to make things good.
But it doesn’t make my regard for this president any less as I’m too jaded and tired to stake out purity litmus tests. Besides, I’m not even an American… and although I live in London, writing just a few hundred yards away from where Julian Assange is sleeping tonight… I’m not even British.
A pox on all your securitymilitaryindustrialcomplexes. ;)
Davis X. Machina
I grew up reading The Nation from the mid ’60’s on — I put up with Cockburn, and gritted my teeth over Hitchens, because of a lot of other peope from Ehrenreich to Alterman to Calvin Trillin. I don’t get the dead tree paper mag any more, but I read it religiously on the web. It’s like family.
But every family occasionally, well…
In Chelsea Manning, We Finally Have a Scapegoat for the Iraq War
Ted & Hellen
@Alexandra:
lol
“Are you eight years old?”
Given your perch inside that house of glass, you might want to back off from escalating the sex-based attacks, Alex.
But I’ll go there with you if you want…
Ted & Hellen
@Mnemosyne:
Fuck off bint.
pat
@Alexandra:
Well said. I’ve rarely seen a comment from T&H that wasn’t hateful and, to me, incomprehensible. I think the guy has some serious psychological issues.
sparky
@cathyx: Good grief. That went right over your head, didn’t it?
J R in WV
@Ted & Hellen:
You are a small piece of toxic waste, not as valuable as a piece of feces, which could be composted into fertilizer.
Please remove yourself from our plane of reality as soon as possible, as most of us are tired of dealing with your toxicity.
Ted & Hellen
@J R in WV:
Fuck off bint.
cathyx
@sparky: It must have, I have no idea what’s odd or funny about malcolm.
Donut
@Ted & Hellen:
I’ll take her trans person perspective on this over yours, any day, asshole.
Anyone who throws around “fellater” and “ball licker” (as you did in yesterday’s thread) loses all credibility to speak on this particular matter, IMO.
Some of my favorite people are ball lockers and fellaters.
Thanks to Alexandra and other trans folks offering their perspectives. It’s appreciated.
? Martin
You learn interesting things on Reddit.
Alexandra
@Ted & Hellen:
Hey, people who are serious don’t make threats. They just ramp up their business without running their mouth. So whatever, Biff.
Ted & Hellen
@Donut:
You think that makes your alleged friends special?
I don’t dislike Alex’s bullshit because she’s allegedly trans, I dislike her bullshit because she’s a self righteous moron.
Bigotry, though beloved around here as an all purpose accusation, has nothing to do with it.
Mary G
ETI feel the need for a good Aneroid pie filter. Any recommendations?
ETA. Android filter. Stupid auto correct.
AdamK
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Cubs fan? Say it ain’t so!
boatboy_srq
@Roger Moore: We are discussing Teahadist Xtian reactions here. More ‘nads just means more opportunity for Teh Sin. Heavier cross, but still just something to be carried – unless you Renounce Gawd, Society and the Permanent Republican Majority.
Roger Moore
@AdamK:
At least it’s given her plenty of practice dealing with hopeless causes.
Donut
@Ted & Hellen:
Thanks for proving my point, Don Quixote.
Anne Laurie
Poor kid. It’ll be a bonanza for a lot of ‘legal analysts’, no matter what — if you google ‘Michelle (ex. Robert) Kosilek’ you’ll find links to various state & federal cases, but of course The Military is insistently Its Own World.
scav
@Donut: Not so much tilting at windmills as attacking its image in a mirror. Little pair-o-keets.
Mnemosyne
@Anne Laurie:
I’m glad the court recognized this as the lame argument it was:
Because, of course, men are never sexually assaulted, especially in prison, so it would only be the surgical change that would put her in danger of assault.
Alexandra
@Donut:
No problem. Been postop for many years. You seriously dont want to see the scars. Might go back to lurking for a while.
Many of you, I know so well from reading your posts here and in other places too. Many of you make me laugh so much, intentionally too. I’m glad to have had the opportunity to have related some of my experience and posted here tonight. Transpeople can get a bad rap in the scheme of things, the whole shitshow pecking order.
Take care. :)
Elizabelle
JCole’s link to NYTimes brings up photo of Manning in lipstick and a blonde wig.
Soldier Chelsea (formerly, still legally Bradley) Manning looks pretty.
I wish her well.
Maybe her next cause will be rights of the transgendered in penal settings.
Life overtakes the law every single day.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Soonergrunt: This too.
wobbly
My father served thirteen years (far less than he deserved for premeditated murder) in various prisons in Upstate New York and he worked as a prison guidance counselor way before he shot Michael Dillon.
You know what???
Prisons in this country are actually regulated. Jails too!
There are guards, Not a whole lot of raping going on!
The homosexuals hook up. the heteros jerk off, and if Bradley wants to be “girl” he has nothing to fer from his fellow inmates.
magurakurin
@Alexandra:
Eight-year olds, Dude.
Will Reks
@Amir Khalid: @Amir Khalid: There is no specific psych screening as part of the initial enlistment process as someone mentioned earlier. Red flags might go up depending on how you answer certain questions on the standard security form and how detailed of a history you provide about medication use. Criminal history would show up in a background check but even those have been waiverable in the past.
magurakurin
@Mnemosyne:
this is exactly what I thought this morning. This really is George W. Bush’s fault. He broke the military with his fucked up Iraq War. Not a slight on trans-gendered people, but they don’t belong in the military, at least not when they are in the psychological state that Manning was/is in. Fuck George W. Bush, may he rot in fucking hell.
burnspbesq
@celticdragonchick:
No, I imagine not.
wasabi gasp
Manning just got handed 35 years, but it’s her sexual identity where the pity pours.
burnspbesq
@Ted & Hellen:
Coming from you, that is the ROFLMAO line of the millenium.
burnspbesq
@wasabi gasp:
The 35 years was entirely self-inflicted.
The gender-identity issues, not so much.
ruemara
I wonder if there will be a change in policy, considering the inclusion of high ranking transpeople that this administration has made. Either way, I wish her well and I pray her sentence is lessened.
Tommy
Itwas 1988. I’d never met an openly gay person.
But I knew a transgender person. I recall her coming into an interview for a suicide hotline, which I ran. She could have been a line backer for the Chicago Bears. I recall thinking to myself, what the fuck! This was a man in a flower dress. Funny thing I didn’t judge her. She was one of the cooler people I’ve ever met in my life. A far better soul then me.
p
ala arianna huffington and her “third metric” consortium of the 1% who she believes are in a position to tell us how to deal with our stressful lives (without the 1% having to give up a fraction of their wealth or cayman island accounts or raise the minimum wage, or kobe beef, or island vacations),
manning should meditate.
i remember when she was in bed with al franken on “politically incorrect”.
before she learned the politically connected husband who propelled her to where she is now is/was gay.
we should all meditate.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Kind of makes sense. Manning knew he was bring a shit storm down upon himself and that would follow if he is unhappy with himself. Horrible to think Manning did those leaks just to be punished for having gender issues.
wasabi gasp
@burnspbesq: On your first sentence, I’ll agree to disagree. On the second, what for pity but soothing those that agree with the first.
Tommy
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I think what Manning did is stellar. But I am also a military brat. There are going to be ramifications for actions he took.I might not like this, but it is just the way it is. And he knew this.
Pamoya
I work for an organization that litigates gender discrimination cases, including discrimination against transgender people. The medical profession is pretty clear that hormone therapy or gender reassignment surgery, though not necessarily indicated for every person with gender dysphoria, when indicated is medically necessary. I think there is a good legal case to be made that failing to provide medically necessary hormone therapy to a transgender person is illegal gender discrimination. It will be interesting to see what happens here. I hope the military or non-military prison system does the right thing without having to be sued.
Botsplainer
Here’s hoping that in order to receive clemency and financial assistance, she flips on those greasy, incompetent fuckers Assange and Griftwald.
Full Metal Wingnut
@Ted & Hellen: please listen to the voices and drown yourself in the bathtub.
Full Metal Wingnut
@Alexandra: Jesus H Tittyfucking Christ. I know moderating is a lot of work, but I am absolutely *astounded* that the FPers around here don’t remove the vile gasbag T&H’s posts. Step it up you shameful bastards (I say that as an avid reader).
Full Metal Wingnut
@wobbly: Who wrote The Iron Heel?
cynn
@Tommy: Agreed. This is a complex person. I don’t think she did anything particularly wrong, which is what got the government beehive fired up. Manning’s no fool. Assange may well have the proverbial tiger by the tail, and hooray for that.
fuckwit
@Full Metal Wingnut: First of all, I want to thank you for the visual image of Jesus Christ tittyfucking.
This poor kid. I’m actually not surprised at all. I knew there was something there, initially figured this was fallout from the DADT policy in the miltary which is finally, thankfully gone now.
So many transgender folk have to suffer so much in society. I’ve heard M-to-F in particular are more viciously persecuted than anyone, certainly more than gay men.
It’s no consolation to this kid, but so many of her peers are brutalized or killed out in the world, ironically she’s probably safer where she is. I hope she gets her hormone therapy, gets transferred to a female prison, and then gets out at the first opportunity for parole, and has a full, fulfiling life after she gets out, at which point I’m sure classified data is the last thing she’ll ever want to get anywhere near again.
Soonergrunt
@Full Metal Wingnut: This is Cole’s thread. It’s entirely on him to moderate or not as he sees fit.
Ted & Hellen
@Full Metal Wingnut:
Oh dear.
What is it, specifically, that has so offended your tender fee fees?
Ted & Hellen
@Full Metal Wingnut:
P.S. What do the little adorbs stars around “astounded” in your comment mean?
Hawes
I won’t believe it until Doug J becomes Chelsea J.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@dollared:
Yeah, IKR? But get this: She also has Cole’s body and Lou Costello’s face.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@AdamK:
The funny thing is that- baseball fanship separately (the Cubs were my B-team, just below the Tigers, for a long time)- with all the gag-worthy far-right politics, I found her to be an alright person almost right away. Even before she told me about the gender identity issues, I got a sense that she was really conflicted on some of these other things. She’d hung out with local Michigan Militia people, but thought they were flakes, and she hates guns…Again, very Catholic, but quite supportive of LGBT rights…Pedantic about the differences between Poles and Lithuanians (his side of town is heavily populated with both, and she’s 3/4 Polish, 1/4 Lithuanian)…All this stuff that’s bizarre, yet she was really fun to be around.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
For those of us with the described equipment it really isn’t that difficult an organ to keep to one’s self unless it’s presence is requested. All it takes is a tiny little bit of humanity. Nothing more really. If you have that you recognize other human beings have as much right not to see or feel or even know about your dick. Oh and you sort of have to recognize women as equal humans.
That’s all. Just a little thing really.
Thymezone
I guess this would be a good time to finally reveal that I am a woman. I know that I will continue to feel the love and support of the BJ audience as I have in the past.
Also, I would like to confess that it was I who wrote the part of Darrell.
xenos
@Ted & Hellen:
You could at least try to decline the Arabic word, you ignorant prick. Used like this it is just an coward’s way to use the ‘c’ word. And it is utterly uncalled-for.
I agree with the non-banning policy for this blog, but you really need to shape up or fuck off. And get some psychiatric help while you are at it.
xenos
@Thymezone: Were you TallDave, too?
Thymezone
@xenos:
No, that was Peter Dinklage.