The spin on Snowden is entering the realm of the absurd:
“Every day, they are learning how brilliant [Snowden] was,” said a former U.S. official with knowledge of the case. “This is why you don’t hire brilliant people for jobs like this. You hire smart people. Brilliant people get you in trouble.”
One of Snowden’s superpowers cited in that NBC story is the ability to “impersonate” high-level officials. This is a garden-variety capability that a lot of users with administrative access have. I have it in a couple of different forms on systems that I manage for clients. From the point of view of security, it’s a necessary evil, and it needs to be carefully controlled and audited. Hype and spin notwithstanding, the huge trove of documents that Snowden extracted from the NSA isn’t evidence that he’s some kind of Lex Luthor who couldn’t be thwarted by mere mortals. Instead, it shows that NSA’s controls were weak, and the NSA’s leadership needs to be held accountable.
Speaking of Snowden’s revelations, yesterday’s dump of the “black budget” that he gave to the Washington Post includes this:
Long before Snowden’s leaks, the U.S. intelligence community worried about “anomalous behavior” by employees and contractors with access to classified material. The NSA planned to ward off a “potential insider compromise of sensitive information” by re-investigating at least 4,000 people this year who hold high-level security clearances.
That was a little too little, a little too late, but clearly the NSA knew that it had a problem with contractors like Snowden, no matter how “brilliant” he is. The question is how many other geniuses, or subgeniuses, absconded with documents in the past few years.
Betty Cracker
Oh Christ, now you’ve done it! But seriously, I understand network technology like I understand internal combustion engines, i.e., I can drive, change tires and wiper blades, add fuel and top off the fluids. But even I know system administrators can “assume my identity” without magical powers.
Botsplainer
Of course. Never accountability for Special Ed or his currently unindicted co-conspirators Greenwald or Poitras. Just the duped folks at the NSA.
Absent a two man rule for terminals with that level of access, my perception is that there are no technical barriers for unauthorized access to above top-secret material.
Baud
And apparently the default password at the NSA is “Orwell.” Doesn’t take a genius. ;-)
Poopyman
It’s not just the contractors and subcontractors, of course. Everyone goes through the same clearance process. And with the explosion of work and rising need for cleared people since 9/11, guess what system is overloaded and backlogged?
Botsplainer
I thought most people hated identity thieves. In corporate America, you do what Special Ed did you get fired and prosecuted.
Poopyman
@Betty Cracker: Yes, but as time passes, I’m getting more and more convinced that those with a media megaphone all rode the short bus to school. Seriously, what other occupation requires so little critical thought?
Poopyman
@Botsplainer: Well, they’re halfway there. And they’d be prosecuting too, if it weren’t for those meddling Rooskies and their dog!
Botsplainer
@Poopyman:
So what if his educational background was spotty, his credentials nonexistent. It makes perfect sense that he be hired for a six figure job – he was a white Paulbot with hints of Asberger’s.
Ash Can
So he “impersonated” people with higher-level security clearances than he had, in order to get access to information they had, stole said information, and went straight to the nation’s two biggest rivals with it. Got it.
I very much agree that the NSA bears a great deal of responsibility for this. They’re obviously not equipped to effectively prevent inside-job espionage. The third-party outfit that handled Snowden’s security clearance should have been fired the moment this story broke and steps to curtail outsourcing should have been taken immediately. That this hasn’t already happened is a big fucking deal. But let’s not be coy about what Snowden did, or is.
weaselone
@Poopyman:
I knew kids who rode the short bus. Unlike most of the people in the modern media, they were all more than capable of winning a jeopardy match against a rock and a jar of mayonnaise.
Botsplainer
@Ash Can:
With the active connivance of Griftwald and Poitras, don’t forget. Griftwald had best be planning on keeping keep his right wing fluffing, incompetent ass down in Brazil for the indefinite future. He may also need to be planning Brazilian citizenship, as his passport renewal will require a visit to a consulate he can be arrested at.
Wonder just how many countries he can safely transit through without worrying about extradition?
Poopyman
@Botsplainer: If your record is clean, if you haven’t lived in the “wrong” places abroad or forged friendships with the “wrong” foreign nationals, if banks, neighbors, and relatives don’t raise any red flags against you, and if you can pass a pretty severe polygraph, then there’s really no other hurdle to getting a clearance. And I think it’s been demonstrated that psychopaths and sociopaths can get through polygraph tests pretty easily, yes?
kdaug
If the semi-moronic sub-epsilon has access to your state secrets, you’ve got a bigger problem than your elevators or their attendants.
Ben Cisco
So it turns out I had superpowers all along. Who knew?
Poopyman
@weaselone: You’re right. Kids I know who rode the short bus were pretty sweet and wouldn’t harm anyone. I apologize for the inapt comparison.
geg6
@Ash Can:
This.
Genius my ass. Asshole libertarian is more like it. They all think they are John Galt. I don’t understand anyone who thinks this guy is a genius or a hero. The NSA obviously needs an overhaul, but this guy is still a criminal and possible traitor, IMHO.
Poopyman
BTW, mistermix, I thought the spin on Edward Stickyhands had entered the realm of the absurd on Day Two or thereabouts.
Odie Hugh Manatee
“But let’s not be coy about what Snowden did, or is.”
A wanted criminal. He lied to gain employment with the intent to access and steal data. He abused a trusted position to steal data by logging into the accounts of people to gain access to information that he had never seen before. He then stole it, fled the country and has been disseminating it to the press and other nations. You fucking geniuses can explain this away all you want but this is no fucking whistleblower. The Bin Laden raid has nothing to do with the NSA spying on American citizens. The NSA budget has nothing to do with spying on Americans and I’ll bet most of the documents he stole have nothing to do with the NSA spying on Americans.
If anything, Snowden is the perfect example of the fuckup our government has become through the miracle of outsourcing everything we can to private contractors.
Fucking idiots.
Botsplainer
@geg6:
No difference between him, Burgess, Philby, Maclean.
gogol's wife
зелёные воздушные шары
Botsplainer
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
While already working with Griftwald and Poitras. And at this point, it is pretty apparent that the Press Freedom Foundation and Wikileaks have been so infiltrated by the FSB reps that they may as well issue paychecks denominated in Rubles.
Poopyman
@Odie Hugh Manatee: It’s not the outsourcing. If everyone was a government employee the problems would be the same. The clearance process got overloaded after 9/11 when Dubya ramped up the intelligence apparatus without a commensurate ramping up of the agencies that do the clearing.
Poopyman
@gogol’s wife: Sweet!
Betty Cracker
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
There’s an aspect of the story that gets too little play. It’s not that honest-to-god government workers can’t also be corrupt or imagine themselves (rightly or wrongly) as crusading truth-tellers (Manning). But when key roles are outsourced to outfits whose entire focus is on generating profits, arguably we’re more likely to end up with corner-cutting that results in soldiers getting electrocuted in field showers and poorly vetted security contractors.
I don’t know what the solution is, given the current congressional makeup. Fat contracts to wingnut congresscritter’s home-state plutocrats seems to be the only type of government spending our current crop of “conservative” lawmakers will approve.
Botsplainer
@Poopyman:
But that would’ve cost money, and could’ve interfered with tax cuts.
amy c
@Odie Hugh Manatee: If anything, Snowden is the perfect example of the fuckup our government has become through the miracle of outsourcing everything we can to private contractors.
Bingo. “We’re going to review some clearances” will not solve what is really a systemic problem. As long as the majority of the work is being done by private companies who have no interest beyond making as much money as possible, this sort of shit is going to happen. In our zeal to eliminate the scourge of public service, we’ve completely made a mess of the system.
Botsplainer
@gogol’s wife:
My Russian went to shit ages ago – my first read was ridiculous, and I thought the first word was Earth or World.
Then I ran it through the translator.
JScott
I thought this piece at Foreign Policy was an interesting view.
SpyKids
In short, we can’t assess or judge next-gens by our values, and we’ve given them no reason to share our values.
JPL
@gogol’s wife: Help! I translated and still don’t get it. Are green balloons a metaphor for something else? I need coffee.
Poopyman
@JPL: Yeah, you DO need more coffee. Check the lexicon over on the left for Green Balloon Juice. IMO, that needs to be renamed “Green Balloons” since that’s become the term used here in the comments.
JPL
@Poopyman: haha Thanks!
edit. This is one of those times, it’s okay to slap oneself on the side of the head and go duh!
Gin & Tonic
@JPL: Safe word.
Cacti
The definition of whistleblower has now expanded to include computer fraud.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Charles over at LGF is on top of the current Snowjob/Griftwald news, unlike this place. Miranda had a password on a piece of paper that allowed the UK authorities to decrypt some data he was carrying. It seems that they had lots of info (58,000 pages claimed) on British intelligence, names and more.
I’m sure that all of those documents have something to do with spying on Americans, sure… ubetcha.
Cacti
@Botsplainer:
This is just mistermix’s brogressive, I’m too cool to care, way of trying to downplay Special Ed acting like a common criminal.
So, just how many laws do whistleblowers get to break?
Betty Cracker
@JScott: Wow, that’s a fascinating article. Thanks for linking it.
Valdivia
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
I saw that and my jaw dropped. The password on a piece of paper. The CIA should count itself lucky if China, Russia and who knows who else don’t have all their assets locations and names on a map already.
weaselone
@Cacti:
All of them, duh. They’re fuckin’ Batmans.
Botsplainer
@Cacti:
Being an all around shitty, incompetent lawyer, Griftwald probably told Snowjob that he had no worries.
Odie Hugh Manatee
I’d really like to see Greenwald make a trip to the UK to visit his employer. :)
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Valdivia:
It’s amateur hour in Libertarian lala land.
Ash Can
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
@Botsplainer:
And/or yuan. With this latest revelation via LGF (which, as Odie says, has been eating this site’s lunch on this issue), I’m starting to think Botsplainer’s assessment is bang-on. Moscow and Beijing both have to be tickled pink over this.
Valdivia
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
It seems the tranches of data that were stolen were completely indiscriminately taken. Just grab as much as possible from the most secret echelons of the NSA. I guess we are now at the mercy of people who think government should never ever have spy agencies. Me being an remnant of a different generation can’t wrap my head around that idea.
Cacti
@Ash Can:
Given the total opacity surrounding Wikileaks’ funding (transparency for thee, not for me), I wouldn’t be surprised if they are primarily funded by Russia and/or China.
ETA: Their total kid gloves treatment of two of the most authoritarian regimes on earth reeks of a collaborative effort.
hoodie
@Betty Cracker: That article dovetails on something Krugman said a while back about early boomers suffering from a form of nominal illusion regarding things like the cost of tuition. Generally, people’s perceptions tend to lock in to the context of their formative years, especially with regard to stuff that they don’t have regular contact with. For example, a lot of boomer-age Republicans I know who don’t closely follow politics think the Democratic Party is still the party of the late 70’s, notwithstanding all the changes that happened during the Clinton era. A lot of folks still think McDonald’s hires mostly high school kids, but they rarely go there or happen to live in more affluent areas in which more kids are employed, so the change hasn’t registered. I heard last night that the average age of fast food workers is now 29.
Cacti
@hoodie:
The average fast food worker in my area appears to be middle aged hispanic women.
PurpleGirl
The Church of the Sub-Genius… All Hail Bob and his Pipe, the most holy of relics.
Ash Can
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
I dunno about “amateur;” this is starting to look like a pretty well orchestrated security crack on the part of the Russians and Chinese, with the help of Greenwald and maybe also Assange. It’s making me wonder who’s getting paid by whom and how much, and whether the Russians and Chinese collaborated on this (which actually would be an important step in thawing what for a long time have been less-than-close relations between the two countries).
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Valdivia:
With NBC reporting the Snowjob abused his sysadmin position to access user accounts with higher security clearance to steal copies of their documents, there’s no doubt that he indiscriminately stole information. I’m hoping that once this all rolls out that there will be some red faces around here who will publicly admit that they were fools.
Aww, c’mon… who am I kidding. It’ll never happen.
@Ash Can:
You might be right about foreign involvement though I have doubts because Greenwald isn’t competent enough to make a ham sandwich without cutting himself with the butter knife.
Of course, he could just be another useful idiot/pawn. That makes more sense.
Anoniminous
@Baud:
“Orwell” is better than “passwd.” So you have to give them that.
ericblair
@Poopyman:
Yep, and this is the problem with the clearance system. It’s completely concerned with what you didn’t do rather than what you did. Your ideal candidate is some 19 year old kid from Oklahoma who has never gone anywhere, talked to anyone outside a few friends and family, or did anything of note. Then, for SCI access, you give him a polygraph, which multiple repeated studies have shown has little value besides scaring uninformed people into confessing voluntarily. Then you shove him into a complex morally ambiguous environment with skilled adversaries and hope for the best.
The flip side is that useful people, like, say, native-level Pashto and Arabic speakers, have, you know, interacted with nasty furriners and maybe even grew up or lived overseas, and that’s bad so we can’t give them a clearance. So we can’t fill intell slots or have to fill them with less-trained speakers who are going to miss cultural references and subtleties that could be important. They’ve tried to change this at least, but the institutional resistance is strong.
In short, the whole clearance process is designed as a check-the-box bureaucratic paper chase and has to fundamentally change to be any use beyond an automated criminal record check.
JScott
The only argument the UK actually needs to present is that Miranda was walking around with the password to the encrypted files in his pocket. Epic fail, as the kids these days say.
Effectively similar to the argument against NSA being in possession of any of our personal information.
Cacti
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Cole is waiting for The Glenn to tell him what to think about all of this. Expect a bombastic, slightly unhinged post about how we’re all just homophobes, and the commenters here are the real criminals, arglebargleblarghhhhh!!
PsiFighter37
Someone should ask Eddie how he’s enjoying his Russian vacation. Still think he’s an asshole, still think he’s an idiot.
Botsplainer
@ericblair:
An authentic ‘Murkan, in other words.
Botsplainer
@JScott:
Another theory – the shit about domestic surveillance was so hyperbolic, misstated and overblown that it was designed to cover the noise of the real crime – a Walker/Hanssen level penetration. Had it worked perfectly, Snowjob gets a Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Rand Paul while the Russians get a trove and their idiot dupe Griftwald collects a Pulitzer to boost his creds the next time they decide to use him.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Cacti:
As long as it’s written in the proper DudeBro Font. LGF was working on selecting the proper font, I don’t know if they came up with a winner yet.
Baud
@Botsplainer:
It does have the making of a good spy novel.
JScott
@Botsplainer:
What we have in the Snowden case, and in the Manning case, is an idealist kid doing, in the words of the great Sir Humphrey Appleby, a damn silly thing in a damn silly way.
catclub
@Botsplainer: “Absent a two man rule for terminals with that level of access,”
How about a crypto-fob you have to have in addition to knowing your own password?
Yes, if you lose it, then the admin must have some over-ride ( or the data is lost forever), but the admin over-ride should be logged.
Complicated.
Ash Can
@Odie Hugh Manatee: At this point I’m not sure who bears the title of “dupe/useful idiot,” “mastermind,” or “windfall beneficiary.” It’s possible that the Chinese or Russian government (or both) set this all in motion by contacting Greenwald and/or Assange. It’s possible that Greenwald and/or Assange set this in motion, either explicitly offering aid to the Chinese and/or the Russians or seeking to damage the US and the UK, or both. It may have been set in motion simply by Greenwald fancying himself a great crusader of freedom of information, then quickly spiralled out of control with the Chinese and/or Russians taking over and leaving him frantically flailing in their dust. Or it may have been set in motion by Snowden himself, with the intention of smuggling info to the Russians and/or Chinese (and, based on his actions, more likely both) from the get-go. Security and criminality concerns aside, the whole scenario is kind of intriguing.
Baud
@Anoniminous:
Ha. I bet you half the old guys at the NSA have their passwords taped to their monitor.
Liberty60
@Baud: Imagining a Peepaw McCain trying to navigate the NSA intel system.
“Just a bunch of tubes, Goddamit! Now where’s the Any Key?!”
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Ash Can: “Security and criminality concerns aside, the whole scenario is kind of intriguing.”
Yes, it is. Snowjob may have led Griftwald into this, using him as a useful idiot to cover his real intentions. If so, that will not absolve The GG of any criminality on his part since ignorance of the law is no excuse (as judges love to say).
Either way, lots of popcorn is in order. :)
askew
@Cacti:
Nah, Cole is just going to ignore the revelation just like Chris Hayes did when he tweeted that they won’t be covering the NBC story. So, only positive stories about Snowden/Greenwald to be covered by the brogressive caucus I guess.
Botsplainer
@Ash Can:
The thing I enjoy most about this series of scenarios is they all lead to tarnishing Assange ahead of the Wikileaks movie this fall, and a likely indictment for Griftwald.
Baud
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
I’m not a fan of the GG, but I haven’t heard any theory on what law he may have broken. Please to explain.
Liberty60
How many other Snowden’s have done exactly the same, except instead of going public, they sold it to the highest bidder?
different-church-lady
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Man, that Obama really is something — convincing the British Government to detain someone carrying stolen British Intelligence on British Soil — is there no end to American bullying?!?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Baud:
I’m not saying he broke any law, only that if he did IMO he has no excuse to save his ass from the fire.
@different-church-lady:
I know! You would think that the British would be smart enough to do something like that themselves, unprompted. Once again, Super Obama saves the day! ;)
Cacti
@different-church-lady:
Obummer made the Brits violate the first and fourth amendment rights of a Brazilian national.
Poopyman
@Baud: You would lose.
@Ash Can: I’d employ Occam’s Razor here, and assume that Greenwald set the thing in motion, perhaps after Eddie contacted him. I’m also guessing that it was Eddie’s own bright idea to flee to HK after an “oh shit!” moment. After that, the Russians and Chinese were on him like flies on shit, and Glenn was left out in the cold.
Mino
@Betty Cracker: Seems a glaring omission that no tech experts were appointed to the new commission.
Botsplainer
@Baud:
It’s in the timeline. Griftwald says Snowjob came to him before taking the Booz Allen contract. If he announced that he was planning to walk out with material and Griftwald said “I’ll take the material and do great things with it” it makes him a co-conspirator. An added bonus is the aid that Wikileaks gave him to flee, as GG is on the board of the Press Freedom Foundation which funds it.
Frankly, I think Griftwald was even more deeply enmeshed in the Snowjob’s conspiracy, and provided Special Ed with his usual shitty legal advice on how this wasn’t criminal.
Frankly, none of them seem smart, and were just lucky the Ed worked for a contractor that let him leave the building with thumb drives and (maybe) laptops.
Poopyman
@Baud:
I think we can dust off “unindicted co-conspiritor” here, if he indeed was working with Snowden prior to his getting the job at Booz. Am I not correct in recalling that Snowden himself said his purpose for getting hired by Booz was this
data thefter, “whistleblowing”?Ash Can
@Odie Hugh Manatee: It could very well diminish his culpability, though. If it can be proven that he was no more than a naive crusader for government transparency in this whole imbroglio and was duped into being an accessory by Snowden and/or Russia and/or China, then although he’s still an accessory, his culpability is diminished by lack of intent. Given what’s happened up to this point, however, I don’t think it’s likely that he’s that dumb.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: I have to use two-factor authentication, and I work in a boring business environment. So even iaf I tape my password under my keyboard, that does nobody any good without my token. I’ll bet the house the NSA is at least at that level.
Miranda/Greenwald, on the other hand, are complete fucking morons.
Botsplainer
@Poopyman:
Here’s a fun thought – Special Ed contacts Griftwald before taking the job. Griftwald, being an idiot, calls over at Wikileaks to brag “guess what I’ve got coming” and the FSB infiltrators learn about and exploit it.
Or it got revealed via FSB interception of Wikileaks communications.
One other thought – Snowjob was possibly actually making 200K – his base from Booz with a commission from FSB making up the rest.
LOL
different-church-lady
In other words, instead of being indignant about a 8 hour 59 minute 59 second detention, Greenwald should be thanking his lucky stars his boyfriend isn’t sitting in a British jail cell at this very moment waiting for an espionage trial.
But this being Greenwald, it just ain’t gonna happen that way.
Ash Can
@Poopyman:
That’s all certainly possible, but it still leaves me wondering why HK, of all places, and, once there, why the Russian consulate (or is HK still considered sovereign, in which case it would be an embassy). Also, the talk of him going to Cuba — again, of all places — plays into the pals-with-Russia scenario. Now, I can see him wanting to flee to a nation that wasn’t buddy-buddy with the US for the purpose of avoiding extradition, and simply fucking up and not realizing that HK did in fact have an extradition agreement with the US. Nevertheless, the choice of countries to flee to smells funny all the way down the line.
Botsplainer
@Ash Can:
Two interest factlets that popped up this week – Cuba did not want him and refused his transit there (they’re looking at the big picture once Raul is gone), and he apparently spent his 30th birthday in the Russian consulate in Hong Kong.
MomSense
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
And if Obama is capable of pulling all the levers of the international machinery to this extent than he sure as hell could have gotten the public option here at home.
Obama IS worse than Bush. He sold us out!
Lee
Same here. I can order anything I want through our procurement system and approve it as every level of management and no one would be the wiser.
different-church-lady
@MomSense: Just saw your debut post over at LGF: my opinion is don’t trust the ‘sanity’ over there. It’s entertaining, but under the palm thatch there’s a deadly pit of confirmation bias.
Chris
@ericblair:
Yep. I was at a language institute for a couple months this summer – one of the other students was ex-Army, an Afghanistan veteran, and said the same thing. Only in her case, the Afghan she was talking about was the person who’d been their translator in Afghanistan. Finally got a green card to come to the States and get naturalized and all, but the feds weren’t interested in keeping her on. Something something security clearance something, apparently.
You would think that having put a big neon “SHOOT ME” sign over your head back in Afghanistan, which is what you’re doing by working with American forces, would’ve been enough, but evidently not.
Chris Andersen
Who knew that Snowden’s voodoo was not much more than a simple sudo?
Lee
@Gin & Tonic:
The problem is some software just checks to make sure you are authenticated. They and just assume you say who you present to be.
So I can be authenticated as myself in our domain, but then login to software as someone else. Which is the tradeoff with SSO.
Ash Can
@different-church-lady: Not much deadlier than the one here, or at any other one-way-or-the-other-leaning blog. I will grant you the fact that LGF is remarkably quick to ban trolls of any stripe, though, and is remarkably willing to suffer fools gladly provided they’re long-term commenters.
Botsplainer
http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/REPORT-Edward-Snowden-Spent-His-30th-Birthday-In-4762559.php
Cacti
My question at this point is, how in the world did David Miranda not get arrested.
UK deputy national security adviser says that he had personally identifiable information on UK intelligence operatives in his cache of goodies.
different-church-lady
@Ash Can: The difference is that here we have dueling confirmation biases. Over at LGF they brook very little dissent. Makes it more entertaining, but much less trustworthy, IMO.
Any rate, my comment to MomSense was triggered specifically by her saying that she heard it might be ‘saner’ over there, and a red flag went up in my mind.
eldorado
wow. comments here have gotten moronic.
Poopyman
@Chris Andersen: ((Golf Clap))
hoodie
@Ash Can: More likely Eddie was a stooge set up by someone like the FSB. The bumbling trail through HK and Moscow seems more like FSB bringing a clueless naif in from the cold so they could get what they wanted and keep him from talking to western authorities. I could see Eddie being an unstable guy that got played by someone like Assange, who I could easily see being linked to foreign intelligence agencies. Come to think of it, Snowden and Manning could be from the same playbook. Take a lower level guy with a potential for access and faulty internal governor, hook him up with a shady international “journalist” who hits the guy’s libertarian or other g-spot, cover the information theft with a press dump. Greenwald may have been a useful idiot who really didn’t understand the implications of what Snowden did.
Botsplainer
@Cacti:
The tyranny of the Western powers strikes again. By holding him for almost 9 hours, they demonstrated their evil intent, which is equivalent to what happened to Litvinenko.
Ash Can
@different-church-lady:
I see what you mean, and can’t really argue with that. Like I say, they’re very quick to ban trolls. Also, the limited number of FPers there (Charles J. is the only one, with “promoted” pages making up the rest of the FP posts) is definitely a factor. I’m content to simply lurk there, and I have my reasons for that. Nevertheless, I very much like how the commenters dig up substantive tidbits of information, which Charles and/or a pager will tend to grab onto and run with, and their coverage of this whole Snowden kerfluffle has been unequalled.
Baud
@Ash Can:
I’ve never spent much time there and have never commented. Don’t like the website style. But it almost seems like they spend too much time on Snowden/greenwald. I guess someone has to push back, but I don’t find the subject that interesting.
Ash Can
@eldorado: If you envision a more likely scenario, by all means, let’s hear it.
Ash Can
@Baud: A little of their pushback has been unnecessary and nit-picky, but most of it has been substantive, thorough, and on-target, and has very much shown the necessity of applying what Soonergrunt here has called a mandatory 24-hour rule to anything either Greenwald or Snowden say.
RandomMonster
This just in:
Oh no! The NSA is no better than STASI! We live in a fascist state where Miranda got questioned at a foreign airport! I don’t have enough exclamation points to express my hate of Obama’s overreach!!!!
Randy P
What’s funny is I remember being briefed on this kind of threat 20 years ago BY THE NSA. They were just beginning a public outreach campaign, announcing their intent to start certifying trusted operating systems and to help provide US businesses with their (NSA’s) expertise in computer security.
The insider threat was a big theme of that presentation. They had all kinds of stories of trusted bank employees making off with millions. And also not being prosecuted because banks don’t want you to know they’re vulnerable.
Socoolsofresh
Love how the usual suspects go insane with just the mention of Snowden. You guys should form a vigilante group, call yourselves the ‘justice for the NSA!’ vigilantes or something of that ilk. Keep on obsessively reading LGF, nutbars.
MomSense
@different-church-lady:
I don’t “trust” information anywhere. I read voraciously and use discernment.
Emma
@Socoolsofresh: Spiteful insults is all you have as your beloved hero is more and more every day shown to be a garden variety spy. Poor you.
Baud
@MomSense:
Where’s the fun in that?
Socoolsofresh
@Emma: Nah, just learned it is not worth arguing with insane dead enders. Never said anything about hero, but you can think whatever you like. Keep on carrying water for the NSA though, I’m sure they need your help.
ruemara
@different-church-lady: You think there’s not a lot of groupthink going on throughout the lefty blogosphere flipping their shit over the NSA? Just as much dumb at the idea that there is direct spying on Americans? The people claiming that the NSA conspired with Bloomberg to spy on the Occupy movement in NYC and bring them down? At LGF, they actually seem to read the damned articles and understand the difference between “I don’t like this” and “this is the law and this is what’s happening”. Lot of other places, not so much.
different-church-lady
@ruemara: No, I absolutely do think the paranoia is off the charts all over the place. I just feel that because LGF appears less nutty doesn’t mean they’ve got all their facts straight, or don’t indulge in their own wild theories.
different-church-lady
@Socoolsofresh:
So, I assume that means we’ll be seeing less of such from you in the future then?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Socoolsofresh: I, for one, can’t wait to be lectured on how the epitome of freedom and liberty is to have your name conflated with Robert Haansen and Jonathan Pollard.
Socoolsofresh
@different-church-lady: You would love that, wouldn’t you? Then you could groupthink with your other minions without getting distracted.
Also love how the NSA defenders have predictably turned into the lets bomb Syria defenders as well. Nothing this administration does can be wrong! I think your default position is lets be as sympathetic as possible towards what the administration is planning or doing, and stick with that. If it is indefensible, then deflect and find messengers to trash.
different-church-lady
@Socoolsofresh:
[cough]
Socoolsofresh
@different-church-lady: Wow, you are a little skeptical of LGF! Guess that took a lot of independent thought! Sounds like you are still hesitant to sign up with that church, yet. But, any more ‘trolling’ from John, and it might have to happen.
different-church-lady
@Socoolsofresh: You know, for someone who just claimed they learned some people aren’t worth arguing with, you sure seem interested in continuing to argue with them.
Emma
@Socoolsofresh: You know, if I were, I would be offended. Naw, maybe not. Consider the source
FlipYrWhig
It seems like the most dire thing Snowden revealed was that too many people like Snowden worked there, and that they’re capable of doing a lot, like taking secret documents and releasing them to the media. So Snowden was whistle-blowing on… himself?
FlipYrWhig
Also, this is sort of like a thief getting hired as a bank teller, taking a fistful of hundreds and running, then complaining to the media about how the bank totally didn’t stop her from doing it, so we should all blame the fundamental corruption of the national banking system.
Ted & Hellen
So because some unnamed government source with questionable motives called Snowden “brilliant,” you take it upon yourself to put up a sneering front page post, written as though Snowden said this about himself, informing us that you are every bit as smart and savvy as Snowden if he really were brilliant, which he’s not brilliant but even so, also too.
Snowden SUCKS AND IS NOT SMART, NOT EVEN.
You Snowald Haterbots are losing it.
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
Poor Timmy. Always upset to find out his heroes have feet of clay and that Snowden was just a garden-variety thief with a keyring of passwords that let him into other people’s accounts.
Keith G
@Ted & Hellen: Is this a thread? It reads like a mutual masturbation session.
LAC
@Socoolsofresh: and you should team up with Ted and his hostage dog and form the new wonder twins. You know, the two idiots with blankets tied around their necks that the Justice League had to always go and rescue.
LAC
@different-church-lady: Yes, you are distracting…in that way a dog poopie seen on sidewalk is… oh, look aaaaand step over.
Elie
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
THIS THIS THIS
LAC
@LAC: I hate when people pop in just as you are going to hit a key. That was not for you ,different church lady. I stepped in the socoolsofresh – I mean – poop!
NR
Shorter Obots: Snowden Snowden Snowden Greenwald Greenwald Greenwald Snowden Greenwald Snowden Snowden Greenwald (oh god don’t talk about the NSA, don’t talk about the NSA, it might make Obama look bad) Snowden Snowden Snowden Greenwald Greenwald Greenwald.
different-church-lady
@LAC: Do you frequently have conversations with dog poo?
Elie
@Cacti:
I agree, wholeheartedly. It very much stinks and there is no defense for this as a “patriotic” — all that weak veneer fell off a long time ago — its shameful for anyone who would consider himself an American — whether GG or Snowden..
Socoolsofresh
@Elie: Haha hilarious. I guess its way more patriotic to defend the erosion of the constitution and just stfu and take it. Way more patriotic,
Socoolsofresh
@Elie: Haha hilarious. I guess its way more patriotic to defend the erosion of the constitution and just stfu and take it. Way more patriotic,
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Ash Can:
Greenwald is the beauty of their plan; the press is so sensationalized just hinting at nasty things will send the press into a feeding frenzy of speculation. Like the rest of them Greenwald is just doing his job in the infotanment industry.
Thlayli
Right on schedule, the Glennbots show up and start flinging insults around, making no attempt to engage the substance of what’s been said.
You know, what they always accuse the other side of doing.
Elie
@Cacti:
Maybe letting him go is better. He can’t operate anymore with many degrees of freedom and it stirs the pot.
These guys, (GG, Snowden, et al) are going to end up at each others’ throats. Watch for it. Things are going to start getting really messy as we have all these prima donnas who want to be the hero and there is a tangle of money under here somewhere. GG is writing a book, no? My guess is to make it juicy he is going to step on one of his fellow egotist’s fee fees and they are nothing if not vicious. Good times ahead
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Botsplainer:
The Russian hot female intelligence operative who was literally and figuratively pumping Snowden is stationed there? If so, more brilliant thinking by the Russians, if Snowden was detected early by US intelligence the US would think the Chines were behind it.
Mnemosyne
@NR:
And here you guys were trying to tell us that Snowden obtained all of his information legally and that all of this was available to him as an ordinary employee. Now it turns out he was only able to do it by stealing the identities of people with higher security clearances than him.
But I guess all’s fair in love and war, can’t make an omelette without breaking some eggs, a crime committed in the name of freedom isn’t really a crime, etc., eh?
Socoolsofresh
@Thlayli: Haha yep, like anyone on this thread has been discussing the needs of the NSA to tighten up their ship and become even more secretive. It’s only ‘glennbots’ who are derailing the conversation. It’s like you didn’t even see the first 70 comments on this thread.
NR
@Mnemosyne: Shorter Mnemosyne: Snowden Snowden Snowden Greenwald Greenwald Greenwald Snowden Greenwald Snowden Snowden Greenwald (oh god don’t talk about the NSA, don’t talk about the NSA, it might make Obama look bad) Snowden Snowden Snowden Greenwald Greenwald Greenwald.
Mnemosyne
@NR:
So you’re admitting that you’re Ginger and can’t actually comprehend anything else?
Thlayli
@Socoolsofresh:
It was a very civil discussion until post 92, when Eldorado said:
Then you arrived in post 102, calling us “nutbars”; then followed that up with “insane dead-enders” in post 106 and “minions” in post 111.
Next up was Special Timmeh, who contributed in post 118:
To which Keith G responded in post 120 with:
And NR chipped in an “Obots” in post 125.
That’s seven shit-throws in 33 posts. None of which had anything to do with what came before.
Yeah, you’re the ones who are really interested in talking about the NSA.
Odie Hugh Manatee
“That’s seven shit-throws in 33 posts. None of which had anything to do with what came before.”
I think they’re operating using the old maxim “If all you have are lemons then take a dump and gleefully roll around in it.”
When the facts destroy your story then attack the messenger. It’s all they can do because it’s all they have left.
Socoolsofresh
@Thlayli: Nice, just glaze over the fact that most of the posts were people losing their shit over Greenwald and Snowden, and not real discussion about them, just who could hate them the most.
If you consider that a ‘civil’ discussion, then it makes sense. No one was talking about the subject, which is NSA, as in, should they further put controls so that secrets aren’t leaked? Not one post was about that, when that is the subject and summary of the initial post. So ya, you guys are insane with rage. And I called you on it, now your feelings are getting hurt, when the whole thing was a crazy hate fest from the beginning.
It is parallel to Republican thinking, like you are discriminating against us because we want to be free to hate as much as possible! Don’t make us feel bad because we want to be bigots! In this case, you guys want to be free to share your dreams of hunting down Snowden and torturing him.
Socoolsofresh
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Hilarious, coming from the leader of calling dude Griftwald. Your whole shtick on this NSA thing has been attacking the messenger. The cognitive dissonance on you is very strong.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Socoolsofresh: ” Nice, just glaze over the fact that most of the posts were people losing their shit over Greenwald and Snowden, and not real discussion about them, just who could hate them the most.”
If Snowjob was a bank robber who stole millions of dollars, you idiots would be cheering about how he became an instant millionaire while completely ignoring the fact that he stole every penny of his millions.
@Socoolsofresh:
Snowden is a proven liar (hence the Snowjob) and Greenwald was shopping interviews of Snowden around for quick cash (hence the Griftwald). Not only that but GG has an extensive history of asshattery and sockpuppetry (is this you Glenn?) that backs up what a right wing glibertarian shithead the guy really is.
There’s more substance in what I posted above than every single post you’ve made here on the subject, combined.
Troll away troll.
Socoolsofresh
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Ya, you are real deep. Nothing mentioning the NSA, just some hardcore LGF analysis about your perceived horribleness of Greenwald and Snowden, hence some serious attacking the messenger.
Not sure what Snowden being a bank robber would mean, he would then be in the category of being a bank robber, not a whistleblower. But I know you consider calling Snowden a whistleblower as troll behavior, because you are crazy.
MomSense
@Botsplainer:
That has been my hunch all along.
Thlayli
@Socoolsofresh:
How about answering my question from the late-night thread:
Please explain to us how leaking the NSA’s budget counts as “whistleblowing”.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Thlayli:
How about the info on the Bin Laden raid? What about the UK and us spying on other nations? What do any of these situations have to do with spying on Americans?
They don’t.
Socoolsofresh
@Thlayli: So what you are saying is if there are things that you feel like aren’t whistleblowing, as in NSA budget, that means that anything else he gives out is now invalid because of that one thing. Got it.
Socoolsofresh
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Okay so because of this other info that came out, means that the domestic spying info that he did release is now? Moot, invalid? Not sure how that works. He was only allowed to release domestic spying info and now that there is more stuff, it means?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Socoolsofresh:
It doesn’t make it moot, it makes him a criminal, not a whistleblower. You keep skipping over that small detail.
Thlayli
@Socoolsofresh:
Dude, your mind-reader is busted. You might want to have that checked out.
Socoolsofresh
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Oh okay so one cannot be a whistleblower and a criminal, it is either/or. So all the info that was released that is leading to new bills being discussed in congress and other action being taken, was a result of a criminal, not a whistleblower? Okay.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Socoolsofresh:
No, the new bills are the result of opportunistic politicians pandering to the lowest common denominator to burnish their credentials.
Are you now trusting what politicians are saying and doing because it fits your beliefs?