.
Professor Krugman has a history lesson:
It wasn’t always about the hot dogs. Originally, believe it or not, Labor Day actually had something to do with showing respect for labor.
Here’s how it happened: In 1894 Pullman workers, facing wage cuts in the wake of a financial crisis, went on strike — and Grover Cleveland deployed 12,000 soldiers to break the union. He succeeded, but using armed force to protect the interests of property was so blatant that even the Gilded Age was shocked. So Congress, in a lame attempt at appeasement, unanimously passed legislation symbolically honoring the nation’s workers.
It’s all hard to imagine now. Not the bit about financial crisis and wage cuts — that’s going on all around us. Not the bit about the state serving the interests of the wealthy — look at who got bailed out, and who didn’t, after our latter-day version of the Panic of 1893. No, what’s unimaginable now is that Congress would unanimously offer even an empty gesture of support for workers’ dignity. For the fact is that many of today’s politicians can’t even bring themselves to fake respect for ordinary working Americans….
piratedan
mandatory viewing today….. Matewan
just as a reminder of how it used to be.
raven
@piratedan: “You can call me a ni*(&^* cuz you don’t know no better but don’t EVER call me a scab”
JPL
@piratedan: Netflix just let me know it was not available for streaming.
It’s unfortunate that Labor Day is not treated like Thanksgiving or Xmas when most stores close. There are many low wage earners getting ready for their work day. It’s just like any other day for them.
Hal
In my area there’s an electronics store commercial running that says it should be illegal to work on Labor Day, and oh yeah, come on down on Monday for some great deals! I guess they don’t count their own workers in that sentiment.
JPL
The city of Roswell, GA still picks up yard waste today, even though it’s a holiday. Of course, City Hall is closed as is the recycle center. I wouldn’t mind holding on to my weeds and grass clippings for an extra week so they could enjoy the day.
On Thanksgiving, trash is still scheduled for pickup but that one makes sense to me, because they get Friday off instead. Most people on Thanksgiving either forget to put out their waste or are away so it is also a short day for the workers.
raven
@JPL: Tomorrow is 44 years since I came home. I an count on one hand the number of Veterans Day’s I’ve had off. I gave up giving a shit.
JPL
Diana Nyad is close to achieving her dream of swimming from Cuba to Key West. She is less that thirteen miles from the shore and I wish her luck. I’m the same age as she is and have no desire to partake in extreme sports. Of course, I had no desire when I was 24.
geg6
@JPL:
Yeah, she’s awesome! I was a big fan of hers back when we were both much younger.
JPL
@geg6: @geg6: https://twitter.com/diananyad She’s less than ten miles and if all goes well, should be on shore around eleven.
Botsplainer
Had an awful nights sleep. Had a nightmare 10 minutes in and never really did pick up good sleep. Doesn’t help that my SO is away on her fourth long trip of the summer (two weeks – Sydney and Tasmania. Before that it was a week at a Vegas trade show, before that it was three weeks Mediterranean, and before that it was two and a half weeks Sydney, Herron Island and Great Barrier Reef. All told that makes eight and a half weeks since mid-May, and I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t taking a toll on me.
Combine that with the fact that our troubled 19 year old is neither at work or school, eschewed decent friend relations from sophomore year in high school on because she was so into her boyfriend (who she broke up with before starting college, natch) and you’ve got my time in a nutshell.
I took her to the Louisville/Ohio game yesterday. She didnt like the tailgate because she didn’t know the people I was tailgating with, threw a fit about being in a really crowded area at halftime to see one of my oldest friends and also to have sort of a reunion with high school friends who always go to that spot for halftime, wanted to leave early, then was difficult about eating after the game (she’s vegetarian for effect, but didnt want Mediterranean, for some reason. We compromised on Ethiopian). I’ve had to give up pretty much any activity I’d use to distract myself in my wife’s absence so I can drag a churlish 19 year old from her self-inflicted shell of misery, and she still doesn’t talk to me.
It is pretty fucking lonely. I’ve got the puppy and am allowing him to sleep in the bedroom just for company, but hes no substitute for human interaction. I can’t wait for work on Tuesday, even though I really need a break.
JPL
@Botsplainer: That is tough. It’s hard enough when there are two parents dealing with an angry nineteen year old. You should do something for yourself this afternoon.
PurpleGirl
@Hal: That ad is running in NYC too.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Botsplainer: It’ll probably get better. We had the nearly 30 yo over for b-day celebrations(her mom was on Thursday and her’s is Tomorrow). Then again she completely forgot Father’s Day, but I’m just the step-dad. She’s pretty good company at this point.
Kay
The objection I hear most often from people who have health insurance about Obamacare is that they think it is “free”.
I just heard it again last week from the dental assistant at the dentist I go to.
She wants to know why it’s “free” for people like her when hers isn’t free.
I told her it’s not “free” (if she makes what I think she makes).
So her husband is a self-employed electrician, he isn’t covered under her employer’s plan, he can now buy insurance and her big complaint is someone else “like her” might get it “free”.
Once I assured her people would be paying for it (as she is-it’s part of her pay package and she sees a deduction on her paycheck) she was much happier.
I sometimes think all politics can be reduced to one word: “fair”
SuperHrefna
@Botsplainer: yikes, much sympathy for you, that sounds rough. Speaking as someone who was once a troubled teen myself ( back in the dim and distant past of the 1980s) is your daughter in therapy? Proper therapy I mean, at least three times a week. If she’s not in school or work sounds like she could do with mon/wed/fri therapy and a tues/thurs voluntary job. Maybe at your local animal shelter? It will give her something to get up for five days a week and help her address her issues tht are keeping her stuck in misery.
OzarkHillbilly
@Botsplainer:
Amen to that.
When I was going thru the BS years I was fighting the battles alone. My wife and I (2nd wife) were living together then, but when it was time to make a decision or time to do the hard things, it was me and me alone who had to do them. She was supportive, but there is only so much a step-mother to-be can do.
Once my ex went to prison, things got better. My sons had a consistency of message, a calming of the home life, and a slight but dawning realization that their mother, love her as much as they do, is a little off center. Or as I like to say, crazy as a whack-a-loon.
They are now 25 and 27. I’d like to say things get better, and maybe they do, but not yet. My oldest exhibits some of his mothers more schizophrenic behaviors (in the descriptive sense, not the diagnostic), and my youngest is embroiled in his 1st DWI (something he has watched his mother deal with repeatedly). It is hard to know where to draw the line between helping and hurting, I did enable their mother, but I can’t give up. the question becomes one of how to help?
And I don’t know.
Baud
So Cole doesn’t give you the day off for Labor Day, AL? Figures.
@SuperHrefna:
I initially read your post too quickly and read it like this:
Caused about 10 seconds of bemusement.
OzarkHillbilly
@piratedan: Love that movie. It’s in the queue.
Raven
My stepmother was 23 and I was 13 when my old man married her. I was one angry little shit and we battled till they shipped me off to the green machine at 17. We’re pretty good friends now but it took a good many years.
WereBear
I agree that this is too large a burden to lift by yourself, and see if she could explore counseling. I understand shy and I understand strangers, but people who find all this input overwhelming should still enjoy time alone… and it sounds like she does not.
Raven
@OzarkHillbilly: Mom’s dad was a coal miner in Southern Illinois. His father was killed when a cable snapped in the wheelhouse the day Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated . We found all his black lung paperwork when my mom died but he never got a dime. He wrote quite a history of what it was like down there.
Raven
@WereBear: are we sure this isn’t pretty normal behavior under the circumstances?
Baud
@Kay:
On your next dental visit, you should try to talk to your dental assistant about the income tax rate paid by people like Mitt Romney. Talk about unfair.
ETA: And relevant to Labor Day, since our tax code values capital over labor.
Botsplainer
@SuperHrefna:
When she was away at college and this stuff was coming full to the fore, we made appointments for her at the school counseling center, but she refused to go. Now that she’s back home and 19 we can’t even make an appointment for her. Every referred therapist will refuse an appointment unless she is the one who makes it, since she’s of age. And she never seems to get around to making the appointment.
She did finally get a job with a frozen yogurt shop, one step up from the Arrested Development banana stand. It is a step up, of a sort. It starts tonight.
The kid is so talented, it’s killing me. I never thought the high school boyfriend was good for her, but I kept deferring to my wife, who kept telling me that if I expressed disdain for the whiny little fucking emo “deep” bastard that I’d just drive her toward him more. I shoulda just made my scorn known and let the chips fall, because we got a disaster.
WereBear
@Raven: That’s what I mean. I have a bro who likes people no more than two at a time and NOT strangers… but he’s perfectly happy in his apartment pursuing his own interests.
If there is no sanctuary from the misery, then the misery must be addressed.
Keith G
@Kay: During the last stages of the ACA debate in late 09 and early 10, I found it amazing and frustrating that I spent so much time explaining the act’s basic provisions to those whom I work near and work with. Not enough of a concerted effort was made to teach the public about a complex piece of legislation’
In addition to your notion of fairness, I would add an eroding valuation of communitarian ethos. Has there ever been a time when our fellow citizens have shown to be less invested in the plight of fellow citizens or the greater society?
I like this quote from Sara Vowell:
Happy Labor Day
SuperHrefna
@Baud: :-D I cleaned cat cages at my local shelter for years and it definitely was a kind of therapy! Dirty, smelly therapy, but definitely therapeutic.
Betty Cracker
@Botsplainer: Man, that’s tough. Teenagers can make you wish no creature ever slithered out of the primordial ooze and started the whole evolutionary ball rolling toward the fucked-up human race. And I’m sure their reaching official “adult” status makes it that much more difficult in a way. Best of luck to the family.
WereBear
Yeah, that’s tough. I was once pressured into “tough loving” someone but it didn’t help, only hurt. What did help was letting go of any of my expectations, and wanting them to be happy,
If they are not, it was not for lack of trying on my part.
Baud
@Keith G:
Had the Democrats held the House (or if we had a sane Republican Party), we might have seen more funding for education and outreach during the four-year timeline to full implementation. Alas…
Kay
@Keith G:
But I think you have to accept where people are when you talk to them.
We can make fun of “keep government out of my Medicare!” all we want but that wasn’t really the objection.
The objection was “I paid in, they didn’t, you’re taking mine and giving it to them”
Older people here are a lot calmer now that they SEE it’s not being taken away.
I’m somewhat sympathetic to it. It’s tough for liberals though, because as people feel less and less secure they are more likely to protect what they have.
I think people feel markedy less secure than they did even 15 or 20 years ago.
Conservative policies make them less secure, which makes them more conservative. I don’t know what to do about it other than to take a political hit and hope it pays off longer term.
SuperHrefna
@Botsplainer: Talented kids often struggle once they leave high school because in work or college talent isn’t enough, you have to know how to apply yourself as well, and talented kids often skip that part as they skate through school on aptitude alone. It’s rough – for her and for you. And as they say, you can lead a horse to therapy but you cannot make her think. Just don’t give up on her – or on yourself. Can you make some time for yourself today? If you get too frustrated with her isn’t not going to be good for either of you.
Botsplainer
@Betty Cracker:
Right now, the hard part is trying to keep from sending churlish messages to my wife, who’s giddy about lunch at the Park Hyatt Sydney and encountering Pink while strolling to the Opera House. I don’t want to tromp on her good time, but damn.
different-church-lady
Does looking for work count as working?
SuperHrefna
@WereBear: I think tough love can work with willful misbehavior, but it can be so disastrous when applied to someone struggling as best they can with a hard situation. Knocks whatever foothold they have managed to find right out from under them.
WereBear
@different-church-lady: Yes, it’s hard work!
Keith G
@Baud: The executive branch always has options at it’s disposal to get the word out. More should have been done.
Botsplainer
@SuperHrefna:
Maybe there’s a movie or something. Right now, though, I’d like to be around friends. I gave in to her on not meeting my old friend and high school classmates yesterday – good for her, not so good for me. And I couldn’t enjoy the tailgate because she was adamant about telegraphing her dislike for the event.
Lurking Canadian
@Keith G: Harper’s doing his evil, evil best to change the last bit, anyway.
Botsplainer
@different-church-lady:
Not when you insist on wearing flip flops and a stick on bindi on your forehead when you apply because that is “who I am, I’m not bound by society’s rules”. Which is why all the three “real” jobs that she applied for this summer never called back.
Did I mention that we’re neither Indian nor Hindu? The bindi is a little odd under the circumstances.
Waspuppet
Well, Saturday’s GOP response to the president’s radio address was essentially “lets honor labor by passing tax cuts for rich people and repealing Obamacare so that the Job Creators can give you more jobs.” That’s the best they can do, I imagine.
Nice work by Krugman, particularly the fact that he focuses on the part of Romneys 47 percent quote that’s actually offensive, which of course passed over the heads of Our Media Stars, probably because they probably agree with it.
Face
I thought today was all about expectant mothers….
Steeplejack
@JPL:
Worse, in some ways. I just got back an hour ago from giving a friend of mine a ride to work at Barnes & Noble at 7:00 a.m. Here in NoVa the Metro is running a holiday schedule, so there was no bus running early enough to get her there on time. If she had to drop $20 on a cab, that would put a dent in her budget for the week.
I’m sure there are a lot of other low-wage retail and service workers in the same boat today: “business as usual” on the job, fewer resources to help them get there because it’s a “holiday.”
The B&N store’s “managers’ meeting” is held every Monday at 7:00 a.m., and even if you’re not scheduled to work that day, or you’re scheduled to work later in the day, you have to come in for it. I don’t know why they can’t let those people conference-call in. I asked a couple of times when I worked there, and the answer was basically “Because shut up, that’s why.” I was never a manager; I was just interested as part of my ongoing research project “Can American Business Really Be This Fucked Up?”
My friend is a “merchandise manager,” but she’s an hourly employee who probably makes no more than $14 an hour. She has the power to open and close the store and run a shift, but that’s about it. The big benefit is that she gets paid more than the lowly booksellers (who still start at $7.50 or $8.00 an hour) and she “gets” close to 40 hours a week—a not insubstantial “benefit” in today’s retail world. And today she got to go in to the store for a trivial 60- to 90-minute meeting and then go home again. At least the buses are running now.
Kay
@Keith G:
As an example, if I were selling Medicare for all I wouldn’t focus on the potential recipients I would focus on the fact that they would be “buying in” (because they would be, it wouldn’t be “free”)
It has to be “fair” and you’d have a huge group of people who didn’t get it at 35 or 50 or 55 who would perceive it as “unfair” unless they knew there was some buy-in by younger people.
I had this funny conversation with a younger single guy here. He pays about 120 a month for employer provided health insurance ( “good” employer here) and he was honest enough to ask me what “they” would pay under the ACA.
The answer is around 130-150 a month. Someone “like him”
He was fine w-it after that :)
OzarkHillbilly
@Botsplainer:
Boy, does that sound familiar. My youngest got busted for pot at school when he was 14. He only went to the counseling because it was court ordered. His mother never took him and in fact interfered with it. He was very angry at the time and thru his personal counseling, the family counseling, his personal group therapy, and family group therapy he finally came to grips with his anger at the world and especially his anger with me.
And, ohhh, did he hate me, with every fiber of his being he hated me. It was all my fault. At one group family session I finally looked at him and said, “I don’t care how much you hate me, I am never going away, never going to stop trying. Because I love you that much and more.” I could see a small dim light of realization in his eyes at that moment and I do believe that is when things turned for us. That part of things has gotten better. Worlds better.
But it never would have happened if his Juvenile Court Officer hadn’t been prepared to bring the hammer down. I (we) got lucky that way.
I am going to make the suggestion that you and your wife get counseling, family counseling to which your daughter is welcome to come or not as she wishes. If nothing else, the 2 of you will learn how better to deal with the situation personally. I went to personal counseling in an attempt to pull myself back out of my ex’s universe for about a year and it did help.
Of course, it is up to you. Some people just aren’t comfortable talking to a stranger (face to face) about their personal issues. I understand that, I never was. But I was desperate enough to try anything and it beat the hell out of alcohol.
Keith G
@Kay: You are right.
I am by training and decades of professional vocation, a teacher. Support, challenge, and support some more. That is the ideal methodology to get folks to move on to new ways of thinking and operating.
It is interesting though as to how a society without a prevailing “us” mentality/identification will find ways to navigate the increasingly difficult challenges ahead – challenges that are best confronted with a “let’s pull together” effort.
@OzarkHillbilly: You have provided a very wise take on that situation.. (Your handle notwithstanding).
Steeplejack
@Botsplainer:
That’s really rough. Is it possible to let the 19-year-old stew in her own juices and not have to drag her around with you?
JPL
A friend told me that Cosco is closed today, in order to give their employees the day off. The h.h. gregg ad has to be a spoof. For those who haven’t seen it, here is a link.
SuperHrefna
@Botsplainer: find something! Is there a friend you could meet up with for a beer or a cup of tea or /choose your poison/? You really sound like you are at the end of your tether. Make you your priority today! You won’t be any good to anyone if you run yourself down.
Last time I went through all this was with my niece who behaved pretty much the way you are describing ( couldn’t stand being with people, but couldn’t stand being alone either) but with the addition of wild, extremely draining, dramatic fits. Turned out she was bipolar and the meds helped a lot, and she did get to an age where she looked back ruefully on her terrible adolescent behavior. But then she stopped taking her meds, started taking heroin and then she ODed and now she’s dead. It’s left my family sucker punched and reeling and wishing for one more do-over even though we tried as hard as we could for ten years to save her.
Argh, this is turning really miserable, sorry. I think what I’m trying to say is hang in there but pace yourself, look after yourself and find some support. If your wife is too busy traveling to be that support maybe join a support group? Sounds like all that travel cold be her way of dealing with things but it might not be the best way – it certainly isn’t for you! Leaving someone holding the baby is bad enough but leaving them holding a teenager is really cruel.
Botsplainer
@OzarkHillbilly:
My sister in law suggested it, and I think it to be a great idea. Just gotta get my wife in one place long enough to start.
Baud
@JPL:
Costco always closes. Sometimes it irritates me as a shopper, but I’m aware enough to appreciate that they’re doing a good thing.
OzarkHillbilly
@Botsplainer:
This is probably the best advice given to day: Take care of yourself. It all starts there.
Keith P
If you could pick one Congressman to introduce a law to abolish Labor Day, which would it be? Ditto for one introducing a “Small Business Day”.
Chris
@Keith P:
“All of them, Charlie!”
If I gotta choose, I nominate Rand Paul. Fits his paleoconservative shtick to a tee.
MattF
My understanding has been that Labor Day was created as a ‘safe’ version of May 1, the day that the Soshalists and the Commies go out and mar the scenery. So, I’ve always had mixed feelings about it.
Baud
@Keith P:
Wait, “Small Business Day” and not “Private Equity Day”? Somebody needs to primary that RINO stat.
Chris
@Keith P:
Addendum; honestly, I wouldn’t mind a Small Business Day, per se. I just know it’ll get turned into another 1%er love fest and end up dedicated to Mitt Romney rather than the guy running the corner bakery.
JPL
@Chris: lol
PurpleGirl
@JPL: Ad may be a spoof, I don’t know if it is or not but the store chain is real.
OzarkHillbilly
@Botsplainer:
Go for it, and don’t wait for your wife. It will be there when she is ready for it.
I can say this: It saved at least three lives, my son’s, mine, and my ex’s because I was thiiiiis close to putting her out of our misery. And in some ways, I’m not kidding.
Suffern ACE
@Keith G: well, no one on our side was much willing to carry water for it, so why bother. What the Dems should have done is hired an actor to play an insurance executive and have him commit suicide on TV. That would have at least that would have made the bill popular with progressives and would have stopped a lot of the “shit sandwich” talk.
Steeplejack
@PurpleGirl:
It’s a real ad. It has been running here in NoVa.
ETA: Ads like this have an interesting subtext: You, the viewer/customer, are a real person. Of course you shouldn’t have to work on Labor Day. But the people who work at all the stores you shop at on your holiday are faceless ciphers who don’t rate any consideration at all. Of course they should work: they’re here to serve us real people.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@Keith P:
One of my ‘winger FB friends posted “Why isn’t there a MANAGEMENT day?1?” and I responded “There’s 364 of them, ninny”.
He took down his post.
fka AWS
@Botsplainer: I read through this whole thread and I just want to say that I admire your fortitude in not giving up in what sounds like a very stressful situation. Lots of good advice above, so I’ll just add – hang in there.
Betty Cracker
@Ultraviolet Thunder: Hahaha. He walked right into that one, didn’t he?
Southern Beale
I had a really weird dream about Liz Cheney last night. I dreamt she was at a debate and I was yelling at her, telling her how horrible she is, and she was yelling back at me. And then she got up and took her wig off, revealing black hair underneath. And I yelled, “OMG even her blonde hair is fake!”
What. The. Fuck.
Keith P
@Ultraviolet Thunder: Plus, there really is a “Boss’ Day” (October 16). It’s kind of messed up, IMO…some day of the year where secretaries, etc. treat the boss to food, flowers. WTF is that? I actually had a co-worker take up a collection one year to bring a whole bunch of food in for that day. I couldn’t stand my boss, so my answer to being asked for money was “Fuck no! Not getting paid enough anyway.”
MattF
@Southern Beale: Dr. Freud says it’s unconscious wish fulfillment, so now you know.
Davis X. Machina
@Steeplejack: My daughter grumbled about the limited store opening hours on the weekend in Berlin, but good child of Socialists that she is, she got used to it.
Somehow this lack of choice on the part of German consumers has been part of daily life for decades, and nobody put, e.g. Gerhard Schröder’s head on a pike over it.
They clearly don’t understand freedom in Berlin. Must be their history…
PurpleGirl
@Steeplejack: It’s running in the NYC metro area but I haven’t been able to find a store within 30 miles. The closest one to me supposedly is in Indianapolis!
Any shopping I may do today will be at a grocery store or food place that would be open anyway, with shorter hours. Mall or big box stores are out because I do feel the retail workers deserve the time off or at least shorter hours.
I also think they deserve pay for the whole day.
OzarkHillbilly
@Keith G:
Ozark Hillbilly:
“An Ozark hillbilly is an individual who has learned the real luxury of doing without the entangling complications of things which the dependent and over-pressured city dweller is required to consider as necessities. The hillbilly foregoes the hard grandeur of high buildings and canyon streets in exchange for wooded hills and verdant valleys. In place of creeping traffic he accepts the rippling flow of the wandering stream. He does not hear the snarl of exhaust, the raucous braying of horns, and the sharp, strident babble of many tense voices. For him instead is the measured beat of the katydid, the lonesome, far-off complaining of the whippoorwill, perhaps even the sound of a falling acorn in the infinite peace of the quiet woods. The hillbilly is
often not familiar with new models, soirees, and office politics. But he does have the time and surroundings conducive to sober reflection and
honest thought, the opportunity to get closer to his God. No, in Southern Missouri the appellation ‘hillbilly’ is not generally an insult or an indignity; it is an expression of envy.”
Springfield Court of Appeals, Missouri.
Lowell R. MOORE, Plaintiff-Respondent,
v.
Minnie MOORE, Defendant-Appellant.
No. 7821.
Keith, your envy is acknowledged.
Frankensteinbeck
@Keith G:
I believe it was a signal/noise issue. The wingnuts and the teabaggers were screaming about death panels, giveaways to Those People, and destroying Medicare. The television, radio, and newspaper personalities were nodding at these very serious objections. The left wing blogosphere that might have formed a counterpoint was too busy debating whether the ACA was merely useless or a plot by our Plutocrat Masters and their stooge Obama to make us all financial slaves to the insurance industry. Elected officials have to work through the MSM mostly, so that was no go. There’s not much you can do to get the message out in that environment!
Thlayli
To pick up on something Yutsano said in an earlier thread:
There have been exactly zero confirmed cases of fatal attacks by wild orcas on humans. Captive orcas are a different story. If you’re looking to feed someone to the orcas, take them to SeaWorld.
OzarkHillbilly
For your Labor Day, Eric Loomis over at LGM will be running a series of posts all day. Well worth the effort.
Steeplejack
@PurpleGirl:
Yeah, there are some media-market oddities. The one that kills me is that I’m always seeing ads for Sonic (the burger place), which I would actually like to go to once in a while, but I was never able to find the one that surely was right around here. Finally Googled it and found that the nearest one is way over near Annapolis. Closest after that is Baltimore. Go figure.
Betty Cracker
@Steeplejack: You’re not missing anything. The food is “meh” at best.
WereBear
@Steeplejack: I am hosting a visiting aunt who is thrilled with the dining options in our little tourist town, because we have very few chains. We have been exploring chef-owned & operated places which use local foods, and she keeps exclaiming over how good everything is.
Like OzarkHillbilly… I’m spoiled that way.
Suffern ACE
@Frankensteinbeck: nope. It was embarrassing all around. It’s not the democrats didnt care that working people pay almost three times more for healthcare than their counterparts elsewhere, and that the poor don’t have health insurance, and that when you are sick, often you end up bankrupt anyway even though you have insurance, and that insurance costs alone are reason enough to ship jobs overseas where your middle class insurance premium can pay for two entry level middle class worker salaries. Oh, it’s not like that’s a problem for Dems, they just had no idea how they could fix the problem without shattering their coalition.
OzarkHillbilly
@Suffern ACE:
They shoulda gone for the PUBLIC OPTION then!!!!!
(sarcasm)
IowaOldLady
@Kay: The headline in my local paper yesterday was “Obamacare to start: Experts Unsure if It Will Help.” I couldn’t bring myself to read. I need to consider my blood pressure. Help what? Help whom?
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
Well, it’s not “appointment dining,” but it’s a cut above McDonald’s for a quick lunch. Or at least it was when I was in Atlanta. But of course you can sneer—you’ve got Whataburger, don’t you? I love that place. (Again, haven’t been in years, so maybe it has gone totally downhill.)
ETA: “You can sneer” was a joke, if that wasn’t obvious.
aimai
@Botsplainer: That is really, really, tough. Why don’t you drop the rope? This is an expression I learned from some wise and cantankerous women about relationships built on guilt and the tug of war. Just walk away from the struggle and let her find her own path. Are you afraid that this will spiral into something worse? I’ve got a 14 and a 17 year old and we are heading into a year of major stress–college applications for one, first year of a tough private highschool for another–so I feel your pain but she’s 19 not 9. Does she go away to school or are you stuck with her misery no matter what you do or don’t do? Anyway, I feel for you but people have to find a way to deal with their own emotional shit without taking it out on the people around them. It must have hurt her to see you still socializing with your teen friends when she has burned her bridges with hers, as she sees it. Maybe that was the wrong thing to bring her to and she would have been better off watching tv alone.
aimai
@Botsplainer: I apologize for jumping the gun on my suggestions–you are really in a bind.
MattF
@IowaOldLady: I suppose ‘unsure’ is better than ‘in league with Satan.’
Montysano
@Botsplainer: Wow, does this sound familiar. Our daughter is also 19, also no job and no school. We adopted her unexpectedly when she was 4 months old. She was an extreme premie (2 lbs. at birth), and there may have been drug abuse during the prenatal period. She’s a lovely kid, drop-dead gorgeous, IQ around 140, but extremely introverted, and has always exhibited some mild autistic behaviors. If she never had to leave the house, and never had to speak to anyone except her family and closest friends, it would be fine by her.
I think part of her problem is a reluctance to take part in this freak show that we call the modern world. Our son, now 25, is a driven person, an honors college grad. He works at a grocery similar to Whole Foods, is an assistant manager, has much responsibility, for which he gets paid a whopping $9.50 per hour. He despairs of his future, of being able to make enough money to have kids, have a house, enjoy life. Given that, why should we expect any young person to give a shit?
If you come up with any flashes of wisdom, let us know.
PurpleGirl
@Steeplejack: Ah, yes, Sonic… I figure it isn’t great food but I’d be interested in trying it once. Also Red Robin; there is one on the Island, Hicksville, I believe. But with no car (and I’m a non-driver), I’m not going to try and find it.
Montysano
@aimai:
When I was that age in the 70s, you could get a cheap apartment and pay for it with a menial job. Now, you can’t even rent an apartment without an extensive credit check, and you’ll never pay for it with a minimum wage job.
Quite a world that us Olds are leaving behind for the young folks.
OzarkHillbilly
@WereBear:
I wish I was spoiled that way. Richwoods doesn’t even have a restaurant. Sullivan does but most of them are chains, the Du-Kum-Inn is good for diner type stuff and there is a new steak and seafood joint I want to try but other than that all we have is chains. There are a couple of good places in Cuba. Frisco’s has really good food and a wide variety of single malt scotches, and there is a Mexican joint that is almost like being there, but Cuba is 45 mins away. If I want a choice of really good food I have to make the trip to St Lou. Found a new Lebanese joint a couple months ago and sampled the wares of an Ethiopian place at the Festival on Nations that I can’t wait to get to.
Sigh…. Now I envy you.
IowaOldLady
@PurpleGirl: There was a Sonic where I live for a while, but it’s a drive in, for pity sake, and winter is long and nasty here. It eventually closed.
I always feel bad when that happens. My sister and BIL own a Subway franchise and I always think of how that’s someone’s life savings and dream down the drain.
Mike in NC
But Eric Cantor tips the guy who shines his shoes at the US Capitol a quarter, so that must count for something, right?
OzarkHillbilly
@PurpleGirl:
I like the New York and Chicago style hot dogs, and the Super Sonic Breakfast Burritos are good in a hurry. Of course, none of these are good for the heart, but if you’re a heartless SOB like me, that’s not a problem. ;-)
Steeplejack
@PurpleGirl:
Now, Red Robin, there’s one of those within half a mile of me, in the same shopping center as Barnes & Noble. I think of it as pretty good bar food in a family-friendly, non-bar environment: big burgers, fries, onion rings, some other sandwiches and wraps, entrée salads, etc. The kind of place you can take the whole family because everybody can find something they like without a big hassle, except for the emo goth vegan daughter who would make your life miserable no matter where you went anyway.
Southern Beale
@MattF:
Hmm …. I’m more of a Jungian, myself. I’d say it has to do with superficialities masking a “darker” element, and of course everyone in our dreams is really ourselves, so Carl Jung implores me to look at those aspects of my life that may be superficial and what are they hiding?
shelly
“It’s unfortunate that Labor Day is not treated like Thanksgiving”
*********
And with Black Friday early openings, lots of time they don’t even get that. Going to work at 3 Am? Really?
gogol's wife
Those NewsMax headlines are hilarious. “Palin on Syria: ‘Let Allah Sort It Out.'”
gogol's wife
@Steeplejack:
Here’s my answer to you from last night (reposted):
You probably won’t see this, but yes, we’re starting today. If you ask why, I’ll have to kill you.
I have sat through probably 20 hours of meetings on that very question. Trust me, when you factor in how many classes there have to be, how many Monday classes there have to be, a reading period before finals, having finals end so that students don’t have to travel on Christmas Eve, not letting the freshmen have a day off after Orientation so that they all binge drink, we have to start on Labor Day. But I’ve been setting my own work schedule since last May, so it’s no great tragedy for me. Most staff don’t have to work.
I’m looking forward to watching The Lodger on YouTube, but it does seem that an emo soundtrack has been appended. I’m on an Ivor Novello jag — Gosford Park turned me on to his great songs, and I’ve been getting the sheet music to them. “I Can Give You the Starlight”!
Okay, back to work . . . .
aimai
@Montysano: I agree with that. I was just having that conversation with my husband, actually. I also think this girl, botsplainer’s girl, is in a really difficult situation emotionally and intellectually. There is her mother, jetting off for work around the world, and here is she, at 19, with no real prospects or any clear pathway to that world? Its depressing and leads to a sense of despair.
Lorna
@Kay: How is it unfair to provide healthcare to your fellow citizens who cannot pay for it? I don’t get the dental assistant’s logic. What should we do with the chronically poor uninsured?
JPL
@PurpleGirl: I should have been clearer. I saw the ad on TV and the store and ad are both real. I think the ad was done in a tongue and cheek way. Managers of the stores probably have explaining to their employees though.
Ted & Hellen
The Obama regime’s DECISION MAKING PHOTOGRAPHS (not at all staged or deliberately posed!!!!!) are really, truly awesome.
Look at Barack’s long, pointy, war-making, freedom-defending cock.
Not at all staged! Totally candid!
Steeplejack
@gogol’s wife:
You have my condolences, both for working on Labor Day and having to watch The Lodger with that soundtrack. Although I guess you could mute it. It is a silent movie, after all. If only I had thought of that last night. D’oh!
WereBear
It is daunting, I agree.
A couple of years ago I had a talk with my then high school sophomore nephew. We live in a small town, his mother is bitter and insane and clingy and miserable, and his prospects, and mood, were bleak.
My brother got it rigged that he would move in with his grandmother and go to a smaller, more friendly, high school where he already knew some of the other kids. I had a heart-to-heart where I explained he took after his dad and I, so he wasn’t military material; a conclusion he had already come to. And he certainly didn’t want to work minimum wage and live in his mother’s basement (God! No!) so he should apply himself to his studies, and his teachers would be thrilled to help him map out a different future.
He’s off to Culinary Institute of America now, having been on the honor roll ever since. I was shocked that no one had discussed his options with him, but I’m also impressed that once someone did, he actually followed up on it.
Chris
@Suffern ACE:
The old Democratic coalition was united by a basic consensus on economics, masking enormous fault lines on social issues.
The current Democratic coalition seems to be the other way around.
SuperHrefna
@Lorna: the core of the problem is that a lot of Americans don’t see themselves as one people, a society. Within a social unit people usually understand that everything is not always portioned out exactly evenly, that some people need more help than others. People pitch in to help the very young, the very old, the disabled, the pregnant, etc, and they are glad to do it because they understand that helps their social unit survive. But so many Americans seem to live in tiny little units of “us” swimming in a big scary sea of “them”. I think it’s related to the crippling fear-of-everything that seems to be taking over the American psyche and I honestly can’t see things getting better until its addressed.
Amir Khalid
@MattF:
Actually, the USA is the only country on the planet that doesn’t celebrate Labour Day on May 1 — a date chosen to commemorate a labour protest that took place in Chicago.
Emma
@Botsplainer: Ouch. My best friend once told me that her kids turned into total strangers — difficult total strangers — when they hit 16. She said all you can do is hang in there and if you’re lucky they’ll become nice adults and then you can be friends.
One bit of advice to pass along (childless, don’t feel qualified, only passing what she and other parents of my acquaintance have told me). You need a personal life of your own. The child cannot rule the roost because you’re so worried that you’ll bend over backwards. And remember this: no matter what, you’re trying your best, and that’s the best you can do.
Felonius Monk
@Southern Beale:
That wasn’t a dream. That could only be classified as a NIGHTMARE!
Love the fake blonde hair angle.
Baud
@Amir Khalid:
And we’re not going metric either. :-P
Southern Beale
Just heard a Teanut call into an NPR show and say, “Well I guess they found those WMDs, looks like they ended up in Syria … ” and he was TOTALLY SERIOUS.
So I guess that’s the delusional wingnut angle. Republican war-mongering CAN NEVER FAIL!
sparrow
@Botsplainer: My sympathies. I wonder if I would be a bad parent, or maybe change if I had kids, but I would have absolutely no time for this shit. If you are 19, first of all, it’s time to start running your own life. Pouting about the tailgate? Sounds like plain selfishness to me. But not being a parent, of course, what do I know?
sparrow
@WereBear: Mentoring is so, so, sooooo important. And proper mentors are hard to come by. First, they have to know you. Second they have to care, and third they have to have enough experience to guide you. But it makes such a huge difference. I wouldn’t be a successful PhD scientist right now if I hadn’t ran into my mentor at my first conference when I was in grad school.
Lurking Canadian
@Southern Beale: I am honestly surprised that idea isn’t everywhere. “Saddam hid his WMD in Syria” is as much a part of the wingnut creed as “Barney Frank caused the housing bubble.”
Mnemosyne
Another labor film: Salt of the Earth, about a miner’s strike in New Mexico. You can watch or download the whole movie at Archive.org.
Origuy
BTW, Canada also celebrates Labor Day today. Although they spell it Labour Day.
Mnemosyne
@Botsplainer:
This may be because of my own past, but has she ever been screened for ADHD? The symptoms for girls tend to be slightly different and subtler than they are for boys, so girls are less likely to be correctly diagnosed.
I wasn’t diagnosed until I was in my mid-40s, and then a whole lot of things from my past experiences started to make more sense.