Is it just me, or has the entire media coverage of this Syria debate amounted to little bit more than a bunch of scribes with tape measures in a dick measuring contest? “Obama’s up! Obama faltered! Obama’s aloof! Obama got owned by Putin! Obama is weak!”
Who honestly gives a shit? Is the Syria strike necessary, do we know for sure who launched the chemical attack if there was one, will the American strike accomplish any tangible goals and shape the outcome of the civil war, if so, is that a good thing, and how much blowback and how many innocents are we going to kill?
That’s all that fucking matters. Jesus.
Cassidy
No, the important question is how is this just like Iraq.
JPL
John, You really need to reconsider your relations with Glenn Greenwald now, that he is supporting the Oathkeepers. Of course, if the Oathkeepers gain traction, they will come for him before me, so that’s a plus.
Baud
They re obsessed because they know they’d lose.
JPL
In answer to your post, Obama played chess and doesn’t care what the elite’s think as long as he has Checkmate.
I hate that about him. I want a swagger and a sign.
Omnes Omnibus
Whether you agree with the idea of strikes or not, I just don’t think that the goal is strikes or any direct effect on the civil war. I believe the admin when it says it is about the chemical weapons. Given that, a diplomatic solution is preferable. The weapons are taken out of the equation and no one gets bombed.
The media see everything in terms of horse race.
MattR
What do you expect when they are focused on embarrassing twerking videos on the internet?
geg6
@JPL:
FTW
geg6
@Omnes Omnibus:
This. All of it.
Jebediah
@Omnes Omnibus:
you beat me to it. To cover the actually important aspects of Syria might be hard work, which is for nerds.
Quaker in a Basement
Not just you, John. I have been annoyed by news “analysis” that uses the Syrian situation as yet another excuse to resort to horse race reporting. Just the other day, I heard a couple of reporters on NPR musing over what it all means to the Obama presidency. The beltway press has heralded each and every new crisis as “the end of Obama” going all the way back to November, 2008 and I expect they’ll keep at it until January 2017.
Thoughtcrime
Good post, but one note – Obama’s objective is not to shape the outcome of the Syrian civil war, it’s to curtail the use and proliferation of chemical weapons. After all, Obama does have a history of trying to rid the world of troublesome WMDs, or have you forgotten about his partnership with Lugar?: http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080720/EDIT0501/807200381
Why is this basic objective so difficult for some to understand?
edit: And where is the thoughtful analysis about Putin/the Russians interest in keeping chemical weapons out of the hands of the Islamic radicals?
PeakVT
Actual journalism is hard work. Our media elites are lazy.
different-church-lady
@Thoughtcrime:
Because some people don’t want to understand it.
SATSQ.
Omnes Omnibus
@Thoughtcrime:
Because some people apparently believe that all presidents inherently want to get involved in a war if they can. This, of course, raises that question of why those people believe something like that.
schrodinger's cat
@Omnes Omnibus: So true, every other headline I read on NYT about Syria was how it was good or bad for Obama. Its like they have appointed themselves the judgment police on Obama’s every move. I don’t remember Bush getting this treatment.
Anoniminous
MSM consumption is down. They are responding like any three year old trying to draw adult attention: temper tantrums and poutage.
Josie
I am amused to remember all the breathless stories about the body language of President Obama and Putin as they met and shook hands at the G20 summit meeting. They were uncomfortable, they were angry, one was more powerful than the other, ad nauseum. What we discover is that, in actuality, they were negotiating to get rid of the chemical weapons and probably talking about a ceasefire of some kind. Pundits write reams of silly material concerning events about which they have no clue, and they want us to believe they are journalists.
geg6
@Quaker in a Basement:
Fixt for accuracy.
schrodinger's cat
Since this is an open thread, and So You Think You Can Dance just finished its season yesterday, I propose a new TV show, Dancing with the Starz, the Kitteh version
Thoughtcrime
@different-church-lady:
Yes, I know, their salary being dependent on not understanding it.
John O
Miss you, John Cole.
(I don’t even care anymore because clearly matters of life and death, even if only to the browns, are secondary to the process by which we’ve reached this point, and whether or not political points can be scored against imaginary Presidential weakness, even though, like, nothing bad has happened yet.)
Anyway, I worry that your drinking led to your great blogging.
TaMara (BHF)
ABCNews brilliant analysis:
scav
Well, aren’t all military actions really just personal campaign maneuvers for ‘mercan politicians? It’s all our playground and all about us? /’mercan PR and media complex et alia.
different-church-lady
@Thoughtcrime: Oh no, lots of people do it for a hobby too.
Eric U.
I think the thing that bothered me most about Iraq is that we didn’t try to negotiate with Saddam. Bush got everything he asked for and bombed anyway. He probably could have gotten quite a bit more, even the removal of Saddam. This aspect of the war went entirely unremarked by anyone in the media and still is not aknowledged by anyone as far as I know.
Turgidson
@Quaker in a Basement:
“The beltway press has heralded each and every new crisis as “the end of Obama” going all the way back to November, 2008”
I think you mean March 2008 (Jeremiah Wright).
geg6
@Josie:
Yes, that struck me too. Tense meetings! They hate each other! Putin is tough, Obama weak! They barely spoke!
Fucking worthless. Every one of them.
MikeJ
Tin foil hat territory. What a fucking looney.
Ask Doctors Without Borders if there was an attack, or don’t you trust those fucking warmongers?
Yatsuno
It’s the Village. The Village must have The Narrative. The Narrative must always show Democrat bad and Republican good. All else outside The Narrative is unimportant. This is a known fact.
Suzanne
@Jebediah: The media is just trying to make politics like sports, because apparently watching sports is the most riveting thing EVAR. People will watch the dumbest shit in huge numbers if someone “wins” and someone else “loses”.
Sly
Because its cheap to produce; just go to your Rolodex, pick a random GOP strategist and a random Democratic consultant who both just want to get on TV for the visibility, pepper them with inane questions, call it a debate, cut to a commercial for AARP or Oppenheimer funds, and call it a day. It’s the journalistic equivalent of “phoning it in.”
different-church-lady
@Eric U.: I remember quite vividly Saddam made noises at the last minute towards concession (sincere or not) and the response was pretty much, “Sorry, too late, we’re doing this.”
Which is one of the infuriating parts of the “Obama wants to bomb, he’s just like Bush” meme. Not only did they fail to attempt a diplomatic solution, they swatted them away.
geg6
@Yatsuno:
True.
Fuck.
Thoughtcrime
@different-church-lady:
Agreed, but we were discussing the media.
However, we could talk about the hobbyists and try for that elusive TBogg Unit.
The Other Chuck
We know it came from rockets that the rebels don’t have. I don’t give a shit who in the military used them, because the buck stops at Assad regardless.
lamh36
Hmmm. Putin has an Op-Ed in NYT. Wow!
A Plea for Caution From Russia
By VLADIMIR V. PUTIN
Hmm, Maybe we will have a primetime address from President Putin from the East Room as well.
Jebediah
@MikeJ:
You said “warmongers” but the dogs heard “walkmonger” and now I must make with the walkmonging or the dogs will bypass diplomatic solutions.
ETA: And “The Rifleman” just came on. Now I will never know if he uses his rifle to save the day…
Davis X. Machina
@Eric U.:
@different-church-lady:
There were elections to be won. And all the great presidents were wartime presidents. Saddam was either lagniappe or collateral damage, depending on how you look at it.
MikeJ
@The Other Chuck: The anti-strike people have written their own 10th season of the X Files. They just make up shit about “well what if aliens showed up and gassed all those people?”
A bunch of fucking morons. Cole should probably just sign the blog over to somebody saner and hang it up.
CaseyL
24/7 news has turned out to be a really bad idea. Too much airtime, and not enough substantive matter to fill it.
The vacuum meant that both Sturgeon’s Law and Gresham’s Law shaped MSM coverage and punditry: 90% of it is crap, and the crap has driven out whatever valuable, actual news and analysis there might have been.
I don’t expect it to improve, either. News departments are fighting tooth and nail for a diminishing audience and because they’re all owned by huge congloms that only care about short-term profit, there’s absolutely no incentive to do better by doing news better.
Even if someone stood up and said “Hey! Let’s take a loss over the net year or so, and establish ourselves as a real information medium! With accurate, thorough reporting! And analysis that focuses on the issues, with actual expertise!” – they’d find themselves out on the pavement in no time flat.
I wonder, I really do, if any of the journos think about this at all; if this is what they envisioned themselves doing when they studied their craft… or if they’re so well paid they’ve stopped giving a damn.
max
Who honestly gives a shit?
The neocons. They thought they had a good means to crowbar Obama into committing to a serious ground war.
To wit, Michael Gerson:
Of course, in the same fucking column he’s bitching that Obama didn’t make his case and so he should’ve lost the vote in Congress. THOSE guys want Iraq: Next Door, because they think Iraq II went just fine. (I’m not even going to get into Jen Rubin… yeesh.)
max
[‘Thank god that’s over. Hopefully that’s the last gasp or next to last gasp of those freaks.’]
Yatsuno
@MikeJ: Medicins sans Frontieres can’t be trusted. They have a fucking French NAME for Jeebus sake!
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader?
You and your buddy Glenn are all antiwar now that a black man wants to blow up some shit down in this piece. Racist fucks.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Cassidy:
I’m still waiting for the dick waving and a second Nobel Peace Prize. So far I’m not disappointed. :)
Omnes Omnibus
@Yatsuno: What if we call them “FREEDOM Doctors?”
Anoniminous
@MikeJ:
Disclaimer Concerning Information Purportedly About MSF in Syria:
MikeJ
@lamh36: (quoting douchehat)
And next time he rescues hostages by gassing them all we’ll remember it too.
Karen in GA
It’s an open thread, so I’m blogwhoring. I commemorated 9/11 by going after very low-hanging fruit.
On topic, fuck the media narrative.
@different-church-lady: I remember that too.
lamh36
@lamh36:
I suspect there are some LGTB Russian citzens who would read this and either die of laughing or want to kick a can!
ChrisNYC
Yikes “if there was one”. Loony.
lamh36
Putin/Christie or maybe Putin/Cruz 2016
Narcissus
I don’t think there’s any serious question as to whether or not there was a chemical attack, is there? Nor is there any serious question as to which participant had the ability to launch it.
NotMax
You can’t spell Damascus without U S.
/non sequitur
Omnes Omnibus
@Narcissus:
Apparently in some minds there is.
raven
lamh36
schrodinger's cat
@lamh36: You don’t get to head the KGB by being as dumb as a box of rocks. Thanks for stating the obvious, Kristoff.
Baud
@raven:
Some of us are just more equal than others.
Chris
Agree 110% with the Cole post. It’s the pure lunacy that I was bitching about in the other thread. Even the gee-whiz shininess of showing smart bomb hits has worn off, so they’re back to the only sport that truly gives them joy, the presidential horse race. And why the Democrat isn’t manly enough.
@JPL:
It’s been observed many times before on this blog that Obama doesn’t cater to the media and seems to consider them an annoyance more than anything else. Seems like this is another case of that. His ability to put up with so much shit is, frankly, miraculous. I could never hold a job like that.
lamh36
@raven:
schrodinger's cat
So when is Assad writing an op-ed for NYT?
Poopyman
@Omnes Omnibus: In early reports I recall that the rockets were described as looking rather more primitive than what the govt would have. I don’t know if there were later reports that more positively ID’ed the rockets.
Ladybug
@Narcissus:
At this point, there shouldn’t be any questions but apparently we’re not all on that train yet.
raven
@lamh36: That’ll be a big hit over at the VFW!
TaMara (BHF)
This really ticked me off this week (slate link), the Daily Mail published a bullshit piece on the planet cooling and saying all the climate scientists were crapping themselves over it. My climate denier friends and relatives couldn’t help themselves and posted it all over the book of faces.
Suffern ACE
@max: god that’s pathetic. Who is creating those safe havens for jihadis? Oh, that’s right, Syria’s adversaries are. I guess we could argue that they are only doing that because we won’t send our divisions. How silly of us to not want to do that again.
Anoniminous
@Narcissus:
Despite the propaganda barrage, there is no hard conclusive physical evidence of Syria ordering a VX attack. We’ll find out when the UN Inspectors release their report.
Omnes Omnibus
@Poopyman: When you add up the cautionary actions taken by Assad’s forces beforehand, the areas targeted, the use of missiles/rockets, and the access to the weapons, I think we get to a pretty safe conclusion.
lamh36
Culture of Truth
That’s why this week’s Meet The Press was so useless. No exerts on Syria or military strikes or chemical weapons. Just Newt Gingrich and David Gregory mocking uncivilized middle eastern weirdos.
Davebo
Suddenly John develops a gag reflex.
AxelFoley
@Yatsuno:
The Village must die.
Gin & Tonic
@raven: but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings
When Vlodya ask’s for the Lord’s blessings, he is helped by Patriarch Kirill, whom the Lord has indeed blessed very very well – the man of the cloth with the watch worth more than a lifetime’s earnings of the median Russian citizen.
Ladybug
@The Other Chuck:
Agreed.
Even if one believes that the attack was launched by a rogue General without Assad’s approval, that would be an even more alarming discovery, it shows that Assad lost control of his supporters.
Litlebritdifrnt
Hmmm reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZmlUV8muY
jl
Diplomacy is boring and hard to cover, hard to make a rock em’ sock em’ banner with theme music and explosions, you need to study up a lot on it.. The media talking heads don’t like it at all.
And I guess there is the self-righteousness factor. Assad is a bad guy, so we should do something. Bombing is something, so let’s do that. Assad IS a bad guy, but the outcome if certain of the rebels take power may very well be bad too.
And the media talking heads don’t like ambiguity and messes without any immediate solution. Bombing is an immediate solution to something, so why not do that?
As for Douthat, why are all the conservative so damn unstable. Or was Douthat joking in the tweet? I hope he was.
Putin is a bad guy, but working with a bad guy that has some stake in a stable outcome in Syria may be a necessary evil.
Putin wrote in his op-ed “From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law.”
Let’s leave aside the ‘outset’ of that quote, to be extra nice about it. At least we have the promise about what he wants in writing, and if Obama is good and his team is good, they will find a way to hold Putin to his words, if it is at all possible.
Better than bombing. I’d like to know if anyone hears the big media pundits talk about that possibility.
Poopyman
@AxelFoley:
I’ve read that somewhere. In Latin.
@Omnes Omnibus: OK, although I’m not familiar with “the cautionary actions taken by Assad’s forces beforehand”.
Ladybug
@Anoniminous:
IIRC, the UN report is not designed to assign blame for the attack, just to verify that a Chemical Weapons attack took place. Their mandate does include assigning blame.
Culture of Truth
As long as Obama gets bashed, that’s the most important thing.
Gin & Tonic
Is it just me, or is this like the third FP post by Cole about Obama in which, apparently unbidden, he’s talking about dicks? Is he trying to tell us something?
Barentw
Horse race, shit, these media ass-clowns just want war to boost their failing ratings (CNN was on at the gym, they were practically salivating, I thought Wolf Blitzer was going to blow Perer King).
Belafon
Actually, all that matters is that Syria doesn’t use its chemical weapons again. How we get there, I don’t care.
joes527
@different-church-lady:
More than just noises. We were pointing at some missiles of his, and saying that they were over the line. He tried to brazen it out “those missiles are *totally* in line” but in the end, he gave in and destroyed them.
My reaction was: “Well. THAT sure moved war a bit farther away” I think we invaded the next day. (I guess the invitations had already been printed, so …)
Gin & Tonic
@Gin & Tonic: Crap, how did “asks” come out as “ask’s”? Now I look like a fucking illiterate.
Belafon
OT: The Koch brothers are going to buy an Apple parts supplier.
raven
@Gin & Tonic: you meant axe
Omnes Omnibus
@Belafon: Ayep.
Baud
This is really Kim Jung Un’s chance. He should write an op/ed bashing Obama and get in the media’s good graces.
Ladybug
@Barentw:
Thank you for the image, I’m eating ;)
MikeJ
Fucking Devil Rays missed a triple play by six inches. Great fucking play that I hated.
Jeremy
@lamh36: I have never seen so much uncontrollable hatred for one man. Emptywheel or Emptyhead doesn’t realize that without the threat of a strike and the talks behind closed doors none of this would be happening. But hating the negro is the most important thing.
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
I’ll go halvesies with you on the cost of a “Mission Accomplished!” banner.
lamh36
jl
I think Syrian forces did it, maybe on orders from the top, maybe from lower down against orders But the line of arguments I hear for that case assume that the rebels don’t know how to stage a competent provocation.
So, I think the Syrian forces did it. Am I sure enough, as a citizen and taxpayer, to think bombing is a good option now? No. And even if it was the Syrian forces, I don’t think bombing is the best way to deal with it either.
I’m glad we are trying diplomacy, and I don’t care much about whether Obama had a Plan A that failed or if he was using bombing to disguise his thirst for diplomacy, or using secret talks to disguise his thirst for bombs. Especially since it is impossible for the vast majority of us mere ordinary people to know.
lamh36
Chris
@different-church-lady:
Not only that, but Saddam caved in and let the inspectors back into the country in late 2002 after what was generally considered an outstanding diplomatic success by the Bush administration. That’s been on my mind ever since the Putin proposal came out; we might actually have a president in the White House now who’ll do what Bush should’ve done, namely, leave it at that. (Assuming the Putin proposal can be solidified into the kind of result we got in 2002).
It also reminds me of having read Colin Powell’s description of the Gulf War (in his autobiography), where he mentions an eleventh hour intervention by Gorbachev, trying to broker a peace plan that involved Iraq withdrawing from Kuwait completely… only, no one in the administration wanted that, and they held a meeting where (got the book right here) “the problem was how to say no to Gorbachev without appearing to throw away a chance for peace.” Powell’s solution, which was eventually adopted, was to put a deadline of less than two days on the proposal, saying that Saddam had to “begin his immediate and unconditional withdrawal from Kuwait” by noon the day after next… effectively destroying any chance at the negotiation. Powell also recalls that Cheney was the angriest one in the room, who “disliked and distrusted the Russians and hated to see them use world opinion to pressure us and then get credit for what might turn out to be a bad solution”… and that he looked like he’d been handed a dead rat before grudgingly agreeing to Powell’s deadline proposal.
Must’ve been the beginning of the “every ten years the U.S. needs to pick up a little country and throw it against the wall” doctrine.
nellcote
@lamh36:
Hilariously unselfaware.
Carlos Danger
Anybody got a chicken that needs fucking?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Belafon:
I can’t wait for the boycotts to start! Oh, it’s Apple?
Forget it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Josie:
It has just struck me: you can’t write PUNDITS without PUTIN.
/cryptic crossword geek
Mike in NC
It’s all fucking end-of-summer bullshit from our shitty corporate media. USA Today headlined something about “Obama Steps Back” on bombing Syria. No doubt dozens of other rags went with “Obama folds”, or “Obama caves”, or “Obama craps himself” to prove their wingnut credentials.
JPL
Rachel Maddow is on fire tonight, Alicia Keys would be proud.
lamh36
MikeJ
@jl:
It seems like being willing to give up all his chemical weapons is almost an admission of guilt.
lamh36
raven
@JPL: She is whaling on these fucking two-faced lying motherfucking pukes.
Chris
@jl:
I don’t even think the self-righteousness factor matters much. Is Assad a bad guy, is he not a bad guy? Should we bomb him, should we not bomb him? Varies by the minute depending on whatever the opposite of their interpretation at that moment of the President’s position is. Used to be that leaders like this were designated “good”/”bad” according to the West/East duality, but now they don’t even do that anymore. The new cold war is within the U.S. government, and the bad guy is whoever they think the Democrats don’t like.
SiubhanDuinne
@TaMara (BHF):
OFFS
/disgusted
Anoniminous
@Ladybug:
Before blame can be assigned it is necessary to find out what happened. Organophospate is a key ingredient in sarin but also insecticides and herbicides. It works by irreparably damaging acetylcholinesterase, a basic neuro-transmitter. Over exposure to malathion will express the exact same clinical symptoms as exposure to VX.
IowaOldLady
It’s amazing how hard it is to keep focused on policy and real events rather than on sixth-grade popularity contests and slam books. Obama is unusually good at it. That’s one reason they don’t like him. He doesn’t care about the things they want him to care about.
lamh36
raven
WASHINGTON —
Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma, top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, is in a spirited debate – with himself.
Four months ago, Inhofe demanded that “President Obama step up and exhibit the leadership required” to show Syria’s Bashar al-Assad “that his barbaric actions have consequences.” Writing in USA Today, Inhofe added: “Continued inaction by the president, after establishing a clear red line, will embolden Assad and his benefactors in Tehran to continue their brutal assault against the Syrian people.” Inhofe floated the idea of a “no-fly” zone or even “boots on the ground.”
But last week, as Obama moved toward military action to enforce his “red line,” Inhofe issued a statement saying that “our military has no money left” for a strike on Syria. On “Fox News Sunday,” Inhofe reiterated his position that “I would oppose going in and having military intervention against Syria.” He said that Obama should not have drawn a red line in the first place.
As Inhofe’s conversion on the road to Damascus indicates, Republicans don’t like what Obama is doing in Syria – whatever it
Read more: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/opinion/x1155159345/Milbank-Criticizing-Obama-either-way#ixzz2edcg05x6
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial
Follow us: @metrowestdaily on Twitter | MetroWestDailyNews on Facebook
Gin & Tonic
@raven: How’s about a little spoiler for those of us who won’t catch her until the rerun?
lamh36
Belafon
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Someone should write an app that tells you how you have supported the Koch brothers with the purchase of the phone. Sell it for $.99. That way liberals can punish themselves for buying the phone by feeling bad rather than not buying the phone.
JPL
@raven: And the MSM says Obama is weak when they are the ones who take their cues from Priebus.
raven
@Gin & Tonic: The Milbanks post above is part of it but she also exposed that chicken-shit asshole Cornyn.
Josie
@SiubhanDuinne: Or STUPID. ; )
Ash Can
Apart from the now-all-too-evident fact that so many (pasty-colored) pundits’ brains are hardwired to believe that a black president can’t possibly be this good at presidentin’, I suppose that so many years of godawfully bad and incompetent American foreign policy have rendered these people incapable of recognizing foreign-policy successes when they see them. Assad could personally hand over his nation’s entire CW stockpile to a busload of guys in blue helmets, give copies of his palace and office keys to Ban Ki-moon on live TV, then step aside for Putin to walk up to the mike and say that all of this happened due to the urging and skillful negotiation of Barack Obama, and our vaunted media would still fall to their knees in front of Putin, slobbering about how
manlywhitemodest he is.(ETA to correct the name of the current UN sec-gen. Get off my damn lawn, you kids.)
Poopyman
@raven: I’m sorry. You’ll have to be more specific. There
‘sare really too many flavors of fucking two-faced lying motherfucking pukes to know which you mean.Edited for fucking grammar.
raven
@Poopyman: Dang!
JPL
@raven: Didn’t Rand Paul mention a few weeks ago that the President should try to work with Syria’s allies to come to a diplomatic conclusion? It was on one of the Sunday talk shows, I think.
jl
@MikeJ: It’s an admission that he thought Obama was serious about bombing, Congressional approval or not, I think.
hoodie
@Anoniminous: Yeah, I guess the Trugreen guys overdid it a bit. Is that you, Vlad?
Omnes Omnibus
@Anoniminous: Do you think that there were large supplies of mosquito repellent in a few places in Syria that just happened to be released at one time? I think that confidence should be pretty damned high that chemical weapons were used.
raven
@JPL: Heck yes he did.
Chris
@IowaOldLady:
And one reason why I do.
I honestly did not expect to like and respect the guy as much as I’ve come to. “Hope and change” was just a slogan in 2008. I didn’t assume it was an empty one, I didn’t take it for granted that I’d end up disappointed, but I was pretty firmly on the “wait and see” bandwagon (growing up in the Bush years = fairly cynical self).
Been waiting and seeing for close to five years now, and damn if we couldn’t have done much, much worse. And the permanent political storm that he’s had to put up with, something I never would’ve imagined in my wildest dreams (too young to remember all the BS Clinton had to put up with) has also given me more a lot more perspective on what you face when you’re a Democrat pushing, however gently, for reform.
Litlebritdifrnt
Someone, I think it was Sam Stein tweeted the other day that it was stunning at how the RWNJ’s are now rooting for the United States to fail, at anything, just to embarrass POTUS. They are actually rooting for the US to fail. It reminds me of the video when it was announced that Chicago would not get the Olympic Games and a room full of Republicans stood up and cheered, didn’t matter that the US lost, all it mattered to them was that Obama “lost” per se. There is an entire mind set of the right wing right now that doesn’t care if the US loses, is embarrassed, or is seen to fail, so long as it makes POTUS look bad. It is really sad.
MikeJ
@JPL: We’ve always been at war
EastasiaObama.Poopyman
By the way, do we have the over/under on when the obligatory pet post gets released?
Omnes Omnibus
@Poopyman: 200 comments.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: 200 Motels
SiubhanDuinne
@CaseyL:
I would love to have someone sit down with Ted Turner, turn on the mic, and just let him rip.
I think, in his own personal dark night of the soul, he may see himself as a kind of latter-day Victor Frankenstein, and CNN and its spawn as unintended monsters. It’s not that I’m blaming him; I think he initiated 24/7 news with the very best of intentions. But you know what they say about the road to hell….
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: It’s always Zappa with you.
Poopyman
@Chris:
This has been far, far worse.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Seemed to fit. I didn’t know Lowell George played (uncredited) on Just Another Band from LA!
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Belafon:
It would sell like organic hotcakes with real maple syrup.
danielx
@JPL:
You couldn’t have expressed the talking heads viewpoint better – the whole problem with the Obama presidency is that he hasn’t worn a flight suit emphasizing the package while walking in front of a Mission Accomplished banner.
Does make me understand the whole new fascination with Putin, though…the only picture he’s lacking is one of him driving a tank, preferably while running people over with it. Shit, if he did that he’d likely get write-in votes in the 2016 Republican primaries.
jl
@Omnes Omnibus:
At least, if Obama could pursue unilateral military action in public, and diplomacy in secret, the pundits could at least admit that Obama can walk and chew gum at the same time.
I’m not holding my breath. But if you hear it, let me know.
OK, one comment closer to the obligatory pet post.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: I can almost always find an Elvis Costello or Clash line that fits, so I feel ya.
Central Planning
@TaMara (BHF):
I’ve send this link to my nuttier friends. Haven’t heard a peep from them yet. Of course, it entails reading, so I’m not sure they read it in the first place.
Poopyman
@raven: Do you think he monitors the comment count? I always figured he did it around some time, maybe during a commercial break, or when he let the girls out to pee or something.
ETA: Oh poo, that was supposed to be @ OO as well.
Suffern ACE
@Poopyman: yep. My god at this point I long for bongs on the Christmas tree.
Cassidy
@Poopyman: No day is complete without a post documenting the size of the various animals bowel movements.
Baud
Here’s my contribution to the pet thread.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl:
I will join you in not holding my breath.
raven
@Poopyman: I dunno, he’s started reading the posts a lot more lately. In other news Missouri didn’t pass a law to declare Fed gun laws null and void. . . by one vote.
Central Planning
@SiubhanDuinne:
And you can’t write PUNDITS without STUPID
ETA – TYWP. Thanks for not letting me doublepost this comment.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Open thread charity bleg – please support Team Bella Q. It’s a good cause.
Oh, and 71.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot, and another 20.8% aren’t independently verified for accuracy. You do the math.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven:
So, they didn’t vote to do something that they can’t do. But they tried. Lovely.
Chris
@Poopyman:
Yes, I know. But I think reading up more on the shitshow of the Clinton years would’ve given me a somewhat better idea of what was coming. (Though I also didn’t expect the brand to rebound so quickly or so shamelessly from the absolute pit that the Bush years had dragged it into).
@danielx:
And if he did, he’d be an Angry Black Man, whose blustering would be interpreted as street thuggery rather than Manly All-Americanness (which I’m sure he’s very aware of and is at least one big reason why he works so hard to maintain a level of self-control bordering on Vulcan). It’s lose-lose.
MikeJ
@Poopyman:
Think we have another Ariel Castro?
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
You can’t spell RASPUTIN without, erm, uh…
Poopyman
@danielx: Nah, we already had Democratic President Michael Dukakis doing that.
lamh36
Gotta admit, the timing of the Op-Ed was interesting.
So question becomes, what does GOP want more, to oppose Obama or to defend American exceptionalism….hmmm.
Embarrass Obama…supporte Putin…block Obama…support Putin…
It really is a tough call for them aint’ it.
Jeremy
@Litlebritdifrnt: That’s why I never want to hear about patriotism from that crowd because no one has ever acted this way before. When Bush II was President his critics were not openly rooting for America’s failure.
patroclus
John is right about the worthless media and their endless horserace coverage, but Doctors Without Borders has confirmed that chemical weapons were used on 8/21, making it the 14th time they’ve been used in the Syrian civil war and I don’t think they’re lying. So, that gratuitous shot about “if they were used” was merely an exercise in fact-denial, which seriously weakens the post generally. The question is how to enforce the Chemical Weapons Conventions – hopefully, a diplomatic solution will emerge rather than bombing. But denying their use is nonsensical and cheapens the debate.
Chris
@danielx:
Remember the last time someone did that in Moscow?
(Say whatever you want about Pierce Brosnan, that scene was AWESOME).
Josie
@SiubhanDuinne:
I saw what you did there.
Chris
@lamh36:
Absolute no-brainer.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@lamh36: “It really is a tough call for them aint’ it. “
Not really. Block Obama FTW!
lamh36
Cassidy
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Your whole argument/ advocacy is null and void because someone got two sets of numbers mixed up before it was sent to copy.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cassidy: No, dumbass, she is dishonest for that reason. Get it right.
Villago Delenda Est
“Media twits be small-dicked schmucks. Film at 11.”
gogol's wife
@lamh36:
Yes, and unfortunately, there are a lot of commenters who are in love with Vladimir Vladimirovich. People in this country are so damn stupid.
My husband just said, “Why don’t they let Assad have some space on the op-ed page too?”
Jebediah
@NotMax:
Or da!
lol chikinburd
In other news, it’s Vol’jin.
There’s bitching, of course, but no other candidate would have made sense.
lamh36
gogol's wife
@schrodinger’s cat:
He was never head of the KGB.
ETA: He was a lieutenant colonel.
lamh36
CaseyL
@gogol’s wife:
Assad had a long op-ed in The Onion, which may be read by more people.
jl
@lamh36:
” Haven’t really thought this through. ”
Who does he mean, Putin, or @michaeldweiss?
Jeremy
Another reason why the beltway press does not like Obama is because he is confident and doesn’t feel the need to be loved and respected. He doesn’t care for fake people like the boys in the beltway.
SiubhanDuinne
@Josie: Ha!
Morbo
Sully’s on A360 right now if you want to torture yourself.
schrodinger's cat
@gogol’s wife: OK I stand corrected.
Frankensteinbeck
@max:
This is bizarre (I mean, you’re right, but it’s bizarre) because Bush And Cheney’s Middle Eastern Adventure was a gigantic failure for the Neocons. They got the exact war they wanted and got to run it exactly the way they wanted it, and got none of the results they wanted. Cheney wrote a paper about this at AEI:
America finds an excuse to conquer a Middle Eastern country (preferably Iraq). The natives bow before our awesome military grandeur and cooperate completely, even hailing us as liberators. In awe of us, they set up an American style democracy led by the people we want that does whatever we want, not because they’re a puppet but because they love us that much for conquering them. Other Middle Eastern countries will look at what we did for the country that we conquered and beg us to help them set up American style democracies of their own. Within a few years, the ripple effect will create a peaceful, secular Middle East that loves the US and eagerly does whatever we ask. The rest of the world praises us for being so strong and manly and dreamy cute.
This is seriously what they believe in. They got their war, and everything else turned to shit – but like Libertarians, we just need to do it HARDER next time.
Patricia Kayden
@Josie: Well some journalists have got it right.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimcamp/2013/09/11/obamas-magnificent-stealth-negotiation-with-putin/
Poopyman
@Morbo: I don’t.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jebediah:
Or SCUM!
pseudonymous in nc
@jl:
Only if you’re a press corps with the intellectual capacity and attention span of an amoeb–oh.
Long Tooth
“Peace with honor”.
Your head would have exploded in the ’60’s & early ’70’s, Cole.
pseudonymous in nc
And Putin is indeed the model Strong President that far too many in the US (and the Village) get all sticky about.
gogol's wife
@schrodinger’s cat:
It’s just, he wasn’t significant enough to be head of the KGB. He’s such a little creep. It was Berezovsky who talked Yeltsin’s daughter into putting him forward. Nobody had ever heard of him before. I think he was a kind of personal assistant to Sobchak or something like that.
Omnes Omnibus
@Frankensteinbeck: FWIW I don’t think Cheney believes it. I think he is in for the money. Perle, Wolfie, Kristol, etc., they believe it.
Chris
@Jeremy:
FTFY.
From what I’ve seen, Obama will pretty much deal with anyone he has to – Republicans, Joe Lieberman, Putin, etc. But there’s nothing that says he has to deal with the Washington media. So he rightly categorizes them as the useless, Versailles-on-the-Potomac socialites that they are, and ignores them accordingly.
schrodinger's cat
@pseudonymous in nc: Why do you hate amoebas? The beltway types are more like a virus infecting our political discourse.
schrodinger's cat
@gogol’s wife: He sure is creepy.
Gin & Tonic
@raven: I’ve actually seen that movie, in a movie theater.
Gin & Tonic
@raven: I’ve actually seen that movie, in a movie theater.
Belafon
@Patricia Kayden: I like the last paragraph:
Which world leader does that sound like?
lamh36
I’m done.
As evidenced by the coverage I’ve seen so far, I see the Left are gonna cling to Putin’s sudden honest broker “turn towards more Democratic views” as a revelation from Liberal/Progressive stand point (let’s ignore the fact that the op-ed to a tee seem to be focus tested to impress the Left).
I also see the the right will cling to Putin’s “lecturing Obama” on FP as another pyre on the bonfire that is Obama’s “lead-from behind, weakening of America” type of Presidential leadership.
Seems thanks to Putin a new coalition will be created.
Whatever. Who else needs a drink:
Bob In Portland
@MikeJ: How’s that? To me it means an admission of the US Navy in the eastern Mediterranean.
Bob In Portland
@MikeJ: How’s that? To me it means an admission of the US Navy in the eastern Mediterranean.
Chris
@Belafon:
Sounds like a specific variation of a much more general thing I was told as a kid, namely, that people who actually do great things are the ones who don’t feel the need to talk about it.
Can’t believe how many times the real world has shown me that little maxim to be completely true.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@lamh36: I’d buy a dead tree copy of any paper if it it published a pro-gay marriage op ed by Assad.
Baud
Oh Putin. Why couldn’t YOUR parents have faked your Hawaiian birth?
Villago Delenda Est
@Yatsuno:
See my nym.
Wipe them out. All of them.
DOUBLE for Chuckles the Toad.
srv
@gogol’s wife:
Well of course, we must only present the administrations side of things. There is always only one side to a story.
Ah, crazy gay imprisoning autocrat Vlad and Obama, I guess not quite the good cop, bad cop match so much now.
Omnes Omnibus
@Patricia Kayden: The weird thing is that people have been saying that suggesting that this kind of thing is going on is suggesting 11-D chess. It isn’t. It is negotiation and diplomacy.
gogol's wife
@srv:
You are so full of it it’s coming out your ears.
Anoniminous
@Omnes Omnibus:
I have no idea if VX was used. Neither do you. We have no physical evidence. The UN Inspectors have returned to The Hague with samples collected from the sites and are conducting analysis. When they release their report we’ll know.
Villago Delenda Est
@pseudonymous in nc:
So, is Putin a “Man of Steel?”
Because you know where THAT goes…
Poopyman
@Omnes Omnibus: We have come to the point where our pundit class cannot tell the difference. It’s all magic to them.
And we’ve hit 200.
Villago Delenda Est
@lol chikinburd:
Well, Thrall is busy with other concerns. Like that Son of Deathwing guy who bears a lot of watching.
Chris
@Omnes Omnibus:
That and TBH, I don’t know how much of this was actually orchestrated by Obama and how much of it was by Putin… and I don’t care. The simple fact that he’s willing to stop, hear the guy out, and if it’s a solid enough proposal, go for it puts him head and heels above Bush, for whom it wasn’t a victory unless there was a war.
The impression I have of Obama has never been that he’s an 11-D chess player orchestrating everything from behind the scenes. He’s just intelligent enough, informed enough and (this is important) interested enough in doing his job (a sharp contrast to, well, every Republican in the last forty years at least) to make the best out of opportunities. It’s not rocket science, but apparently it still takes more than far too many politicians have.
GregB
This post is John Cole’s Katrina.
Obama is mom pants wearing weakling when he isn’t a ruthless dictatorial Chicago gangster, Putin is manly and hates the gays and supports George Washington Luther King Snowden.
And Ted and Helen suck.
rikyrah
the MSM had their scripts ready – when the President sent it back to Congress, they’ve been freaking out ever since.
Jeremy
@srv: No one is saying that one side (the administration) should be presented. Since Obama decided to run for President we have heard from his critics on a daily basis. I really could care less about the Putin piece as long as a deal gets done.
jl
@Omnes Omnibus: For too many media and political bigshots in the US, anything but bombing stuff is as inscrutable as 11-D chess. Not sure when that started, but seems pretty clear that is an ossified mindset now.
Someone suggests that wars are unpredictable, and there is blowback and unintended consequences no one can anticipate, and they shrug and patter on about everything can be solved with ‘resolve’ and ‘credibility’.
Diplomacy: impossible, never works, too hard, too long, too many, too steep, too deep, have to deal with bad guys, and they whine on and on and on. You can tell they just hate it.
Villago Delenda Est
@patroclus:
The question is not “were they used?”
They were.
The question is, “who used them?”
THAT’S the tough one. I wouldn’t trust the Mossad to be an honest broker in all this, either.
different-church-lady
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Wait a few years and you’ll probably be able to buy the entire company.
Morbo
@gogol’s wife: Well he was interviewed by Charlie Rose this week…
@schrodinger’s cat: Putin as a kid.
Villago Delenda Est
@jl:
This is remarkably similar in tone to the thoughts voiced by a certain early mid-20th century Central European strongman.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
I actually wonder what their take on the whole thing is. Do they prefer an Arab Nationalist dictator tied to Hezbollah and Iran, or a Sunni fundamentalist insurgency tied to Hamas and the international jihadi movement? Different schools of thought within Mossad and within the Israeli government in any case, I’m sure…
ETA: and yes, I’m aware that not all the insurgents are jihadis. But everyone’s worried that that’s who’ll come out on top after they win, if they win… and certainly the Israelis, who’re right on the border, will have thought long and hard about that.
jl
No pet pix yet. But promised from an unimpeachable source at 200 comments.
I want my blog dues back.
Ash Can
@Chris: Well said.
MikeJ
Was or two or three weeks ago that we were hearing screeching that Obama soldusoutworsethan Bush because he hadn’t called for a boycott of the Russian Olympics?
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: Antonescu was more of an East European.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: Impeach me.
Jeremy
The great thing about this entire episode is that the emo left and the right wing have been joined at the hip with their similar talking points and praise of Putin. Both sides have an extreme hatred of Obama.
MikeJ
@different-church-lady:
Red Sox Owner John Henry bought The Boston Globe for $70 Million and second baseman Dustin Pedroia for $100 million.
ETA: Pedroia’s had a better year.
priscianus jr
@geg6: The beltway press has heralded each and every new crisis as “the end of Obama” going all the way back to November August 2008 and I expect they’ll keep at it until January 2017.
They missed fact that he won reelection handily in 2012. I guess he wasn’t really supposed to.
Villago Delenda Est
@Chris:
I think they prefer the status quo: utter chaos, and they’re worried that Assad might be winning.
Steeplejack
@Anoniminous:
So what is your hypothesized vector for thousands of people becoming very sick—more than 1,400 fatally—all at the same time from “insecticides and herbicides” in a dense urban area? Big spill on Aisle 4 at
Home DepotHome Casbah?NotMax
@Villago Delenda Est
Never should have liberated that egg.
Been nothing but trouble ever since.
NotMax
@Villago Delenda Est
Never should have liberated that egg.
Been nothing but trouble ever since.
Ash Can
And you just know that if the current POTUS were a pasty-white dude with a far less funny name, everybody and their cousin would be falling over themselves and gushing “Look what our POTUS made Vladimir Putin do!!”
srv
@Jeremy:
Me, I’m going to stick with Courtesy Bombs by December.
jl
Just heard somebody say on the radio that however we got here, a long drawn out imperfectly executed and frustrating diplomatic process was far preferable to a perfectly executed missile strike.
But he was some pointy headed academic. Russian expert. Didn’t catch his name. Probably secretly in service for the utterly satanic, err, my new colleague from her on out and our grown-up daddy buddy partner for peace, Vladimir..
Morbo
@Chris: They basically want the two forces to bleed each other as long as possible, and they want the chemical weapons secure, in other words a weakened Syria without a chemical weapon deterrent.
Mike in NC
We’ll just have to wait until Sunday morning when the neo-cons like Johnny Mac and Lady Lindsey can express their umbrage about the lack of support for bombing the Middle East back into the Stone Age and installing an American puppet or two to make all things right.
patroclus
@Villago Delenda Est: Indeed, contrary to John’s post, that is the real question. And, the weight of the evidence at present points to the Syrian military; not, as Putin claims, the rebels. But while the diplomatic track is being pursued, the UN inspectors will be reporting and more info is going to be de-classified, so there’ll be plenty more evidence made available in the next few weeks. The Syrian government’s recent admission that they do in ffact possess such weapons is also quite relevant to the determination.
Jebediah
@gogol’s wife:
Putin was in The Big Lebowski?
Gopher2b
My armchair, half drunk foreign intelligence observation of the day: Does the current Syrian civil government even have control over the chemical weapons? Assad and his Ministers are falling over themselves to let foreign powers come in and take over the inventory of chemical weapons. German intelligence says not only did Assad not order the use of chemical weapons, he denies it on multiple occasions.
I don’t think we have a clue what’s going on there.
Corner Stone
@Jeremy:
Fuck you, you fucking moran.
TCG
@lamh36: Oh, lamh36. Did you forget that Obama was a ni*CLANG*! Even a former Soviet KGB leaders and current dictator is more worthy of respect than that. Are you from America? Because that’s how it works here. .
Corner Stone
This is some funny shit. 11-D Chess, anyone? Mr. Consistency, anyone?
Ash Can
@Corner Stone: Why did you respond to this comment and not to any of the others? Are you using a random comment generator, or are you just drunk?
jl
@Gopher2b: I think how much the Syrian military has left Assad’s control, in terms of operations, and prepared to go out of control in other ways if things get worse, is an open question.
As I said in a previous thread, Syria has been ruled by the very oppressive Assad regime that has made lots of protection deals with various groups, and that is all the country has had to hold it together for decades. Kind of like old Yugoslavia, except maybe worse because many of the groups aren’t big enough to be their own country.
If the regime looks doomed, people are going to start looking out for themselves in a very high threat environment.
Corner Stone
@Ash Can: Jeebs. Didn’t know I had to drop into a +200 comment thread and personally respond to all my fans.
I guess from now on I’ll take my role here at BJ more seriously, and with the understated decorum it deserves.
Corner Stone
@Ash Can: Jeremy is a lying jackass. Who here is “praising” Putin? Quote it or shut up.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Villago Delenda Est:
Check his boxers for rust marks. No, you. ;p
@Corner Stone:
Aww, did that hurt your fee-fees? Good.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: He didn’t say here on this blog, did he?
geg6
@Corner Stone:
So, how about those Oathkeepers?
srv
@jl: This can only turn out well for Palestine, Turkey and Jordan…
I guess this day is really a celebration for those who wanted to build a Caliphate and the grifters that enabled their vision.
lamh36
@jl: look, I am glad that there is a moratorium on bombing and the like, but to really treat Putin as some hero and like he has anything but the a PR game in mind with his op-ed is just stupid, imho.
I truly hope the diplomatic solution works out and if it does I’m gonna enjoy all the op-ed on the liberal scion Putin saving Obama as the gay athletes in Russia are afraid to leave the Olympic village for fear of being arrested.
Ash Can
@Corner Stone:
Drunk. Got it.
Belafon
@Ash Can: Because, like Hannity, Tweety, and Rush, it’s all about the attention he gets, not about a solution to the problem.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: I only read this blog.
Corner Stone
@Belafon: This doesn’t even make any sense. But, ok.
Corner Stone
@Ash Can: Yep. I comment at +200 and I’m held to account for not commenting anywhere else in the thread.
I’m sorry. I’m sorry, everyone. I apologize for not being here earlier to make sure you couldn’t have the discussion you *truly* wanted to have.
Belafon
@Corner Stone: Really. You come in here sounding like T & H.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: That explains a lot.
Ash Can
@lamh36: I personally would love to see an Olympic boycott, but I have an unpleasant feeling that this was among the bargaining chips on the Syria table. I suppose that, in the cold calculus of international negotiations, imminent gassing of many innocent civilians trumps imminent incarceration of few innocent civilians, but it’s a Hobson’s choice for sure.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: I thought this was the place to be for up and coming furry fanatics?
Corner Stone
@Belafon: You’re a sensitive soul, aren’t you amigo?
patroclus
@jl: Indeed, it’s quite possible that Assad is merely a frontman for the actual military officers that gave the order to launch the chemical weapons. Like with Rwanda (a possibly analogous situation), though, the truth will eventually come out – the generals and militia leaders will be identified and we’ll find out what happened.
jl
@lamh36: I don’t like Putin, and think it is necessary evil to deal with him. I was making fun of some flip flops on Putin I’ve seen in conservative quarters and the Douthat tweet (If I understood it right). I don’t see where I ever said Putin was a good or trustworthy leader.
mai naem
@Central Planning: I was at a Trader Joes of all places and I was at the little sample area where they cook up little snack size stuff. Anyway, the woman cooking was having a casual conversation with an older white male customer about how the whole world was falling apart – economy/war/climate warming etc. and the guy pipes up right away about how the theory now is that the world is cooling down. I just walked away at that point because I can’t deal with stupid fucking people.
jl
BTW, was
” @DouthatNYT 6m
I don’t care if it’s only one op-ed, he’s “my colleague Vladimir” from here on out. ”
serious, or some conservative inside snark that went over my head?
lamh36
@jl: Not singling you out in particular. Just amazed how many people are lauding Putin as an “honest broker” and explicitly going out of their way to not mention or shut down the whole HR/LGBT issue w/Putin.
Case in point: both on Maddow (who never even mentioned it, which is fine, she focused on the Syria part), but more so on Lawrence O (at the end of the panel someone made aside that Putin’s “God made everyone equal” obviously doesn’t include LGBT Russians, the reply was “yeah there is that”). Also all along my twitter timeline, the “sane” Liberals I follow are all lauding Putin’s “bravery” and “remarkableness”, but mention the LGBT hardline and …crickets.
It just grates the nerves.
ETA:
Because you see Putin has been coming around…that is UNLESS you are homosexual, or a journo, or interested in free press
different-church-lady
@lamh36: Please, it’s not even a contest. Putin’s already their keynote speaker in 2016.
Corner Stone
@geg6:
Darmok! And Jalad! At Tenegra!
Do you even bother to see how fucking stupid you look with shit like this? What does this even mean? Who speaks whatever shorthand you’re trying to convey here?
jl
@lamh36:
‘ Just amazed how many people are lauding Putin as an “honest broker” ‘
I agree that is laughable. And its not just Putin. No Russian leader could be an ‘honest broker’ on Syria, too many national interests in the current regime. The US deals with him because it has to in order to get something done. Nothing more nothing less.
So, yeah, it is surprising. Why the hell would Putin go out his way to ‘rescue Obama’ if there were not some angle to it that was in Russia’s interest? May be there is an interest that is consistent with a good deal on Syria. But I think that If the Assad regime were in better shape, it wouldn’t have happened.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: It has been discussed on some threads here and it is what sparked the comment that caused you to call someone a moran. If you want to come storming into the middle of a conversation, you shouldn’t get pissy when you aren’t totally au courant.
different-church-lady
@MikeJ: Pedroia’s also more likely to still be around in seven years.
Ted & Hellen
@Corner Stone:
CS, check your email please.
OGLiberal
This Joe Klein sad is classic: http://swampland.time.com/2013/09/11/obama-and-syria-stumbling-toward-damascus/
I think he came off book sabbatical to write of his supreme disappointment about our feckless, America shaming leader. I have trouble understanding the actual critique/argument. It seems clear that Joe doesn’t think we should intervene in Syria and agrees that Bush II’s Iraq was a mess. (a mess he, of course, originally supported…wouldn’t have been invited to the next cocktail party if he didn’t) But it seems to me – in this confusing mess – that he’s arguing that Obama shouldn’t have drawn a red line but because he did we should blow shit up else we lose face. And, poor John Kerry. Am I reading it correctly?
And I fucking love his tribute to Reagan. For the love of fucking pete, the man pulled us out of Lebanon the moment shit went bad. (not exactly a bad thing) He had the Israelis broker arms deals with Iran (via that fuckhead Mike Ledeen) so that we could shuttle cash to Contra assassins in the misguided hope that Hezbollah would let go of some of our hostages…which, if I recall, they did for some, and not others, then continued to kidnap Americans. Much to the chagrin of the neo-cons, he tried to broker complete disarmament with Gorby, only to be torpedoed by the likes of Dick Perle. But he said, “Tear down that wall”, so he is ultra-male, the only real American president. Fucking ke-rist!
Disclaimer – I think getting involved in this mess would be a mistake. I think Obama was stupid to draw a rhetorical red line because he should have known dicksucks would have tried to hold him to it, regardless of the outcome they desired. (neo-cons because they want the bombs to fly, Joe Klein because he needs to write this stupid fucking column) But I can’t stand this Joe Klein shit or assnecks like Peggy Noonan suddenly opposing American military adventurism because it isn’t the Ghost of Dutch pulling the strings.
different-church-lady
@Ash Can: Random drunk comment generator.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, fuck me. I apologize to all and sundry for not reee-alizing you’uns had been praising Putin for this diplomatic effort.
I would not have done so, but it seems some here have.
Thanks Omnes!
Cassidy
@Omnes Omnibus: I looked it up and I didn’t see “drunk” or “jackass” as synonyms to au courant. Is there another dictionary I should try?
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: And also, too.
Jeremy is a fucking moran. I don’t need a comment on thisa heah thread to know that sweet little fact.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Corner Stone:
Now I understand why you’ve been hanging out here.
@Omnes Omnibus: ” If you want to come storming into the middle of a conversation, you shouldn’t get pissy when you aren’t totally au courant.”
We would never hear a peep out of CS if they did that.
Actually, that’s just fine with me.
Corner Stone
@Cassidy: Try reading them when you’re sober, killer.
different-church-lady
@Corner Stone: Ah… I think I see the problem…
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: Ah crap. That first comment was Putin, not a Oathkeepers, one. My bad.
Cassidy
@Odie Hugh Manatee: One day he’ll get to pickled and just stop. No one will notice for several days. Any other person it would be sad.
Ted & Hellen
I see Assidy’s official Period of Pouting is over.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Cassidy:
When CS disappeared from here for a few days some were asking if anyone knew why. My first thought was “Who cares?”.
I see CS and Special Timmeh are best email buds. Figures…lol!
Roy G.
@Morbo: Spot on. And also too, for nobody to mention disarming Israel’s own Chemical Weapons stockpile. It’s like Fight Club.
Cassidy
It’s so nice to see two alcoholic, self loathing, lonely pieces of shit find one another. Maybe Cole will officiate the CS and T&H ceremony.
Ted & Hellen
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
It is so funny to see how easily you losers are manipulated by just a few choice words dropped here and there…
Which, reminds me, I haven’t picked up my check from Cole this week…
Omnes Omnibus
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Just iggie T&H – he’s useless. OTOH while CS can be a giant chancre at times, but there is some thought going on.
Ted & Hellen
@Cassidy:
Jealous, Assidy?
What finally enabled you to overcome your pouting disorder?
Cassidy
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Yeah. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll take an extended honeymoon to the Dominican Republic.
Ted & Hellen
@Omnes Omnibus:
I know..right? CS is dreamy.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Special Timmeh, Balloon Juice’s Resident Pedo and Sandusky Rape Apologist:
Better a loser than a sick fucking pedo like you. Regarding the check, John pays you too much.
@Omnes Omnibus: “… OTOH while CS
can beis a giant chancreat times, but there is some thought going on. “Squirrel, nut… say no more. :)
lamh36
@Odie Hugh Manatee: for the most part, I took most people off my pie filter list, even T&H, but that didn’t last very long, I found it was way better to pie him than read him.
danielx
@Chris:
Worse than what Clinton had to put up with by far; the first two years of Obama’s first term had a background track of one long shriek of rage and despair from the right and most especially from Faux News viewers, who, um, tend to be older. I used to spend a certain amount of time working in retirement communities, and the predominant view among residents was that Obama was the Antichrist. Granted that a lot of them were people who still couldn’t understand why it was no longer acceptable to drop Ni-CLANG! into polite/casual conversation, but having That Man in Their White House was like the end of the world.
So after two years, they REALLY started to get mad, whence comes all the horseshit about Obama being a soshulist. By that standard, Eisenhower and Nixon were flat out commies. But then I’m old enough to remember when Ralph Nader was taken seriously as a national political figure (really!) and it was a long time before 2000. Then I recall that – what, a little over a year ago? – Rick Perry, Rick Santorum and Michelle Bachmann, halfwitted right wing religious fanatics all three, were taken seriously as national political figures actually worthy of consideration for the presidency. Back in the day, they’d have been dropped in the same bag as Lyndon LaRouche and Robert Welch – annoying and embarrassing, but not to be taken very seriously. But that was in the Republican Party of Howard Baker and Robert Dole, which is as dead as Strom Thurmond.
@lamh36:
Why worry about such nuances when you can have both, if not necessarily on the same day? It’s not like their constituents are all of a sudden going to give a shit about intellectual consistency.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Go fuck yourself.
Don’t defend me to that useless waste of breath. He’s just as much a POS as the domestic abuse waiting to happen Cassidy and the serial-killer-to-be-named-later lojasmo.
That trade is dependent on lojasmo passing a “going postal” inspection.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: I wasn’t defending you. I was pointing out a factual difference. But congrats on proving my chancre observation correct.
Cassidy
@Corner Stone: Lonely, drunk, and lashing out….I feel so much pity for you. Not a way to go through life. You should call your sponsor.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Greenjob is thanking his supporters:
Hey Dudebros, keep humping that right leg!
different-church-lady
It occurs to me there are several people here who take this place a little too seriously.
Cassidy
Oh well, melatonin is kicking in and no longer bored. I’m off. I’ll check on the kids and settle in next to my wife. CS and T&H, you two keep bonding over being alone. At least you have one another. That’s a life sentence if I ever heard one. If that’s the only kind of people I could have into life, I’d think about reincarnation .
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, I was just a little sensitive because no one else stepped up and admitted this was, in fact, the up and coming place for furry fanatics.
I felt a little *too out there*.
I mean, you’re into furry, right? I know Cole is.
Redshirt
Wow this shit got stupid fast.
Corner Stone
@Cassidy:
Hmmm. I’m sure that makes sense where you are at this point.
But in any event, I sincerely hope your wife has 911 on her speed dial. For her sake.
Anyone who’d repeatedly physically threaten commenters on an online blog forum can’t really be too nice a person to live with day after day.
danielx
Mercy…p’raps we’ll at last find out the answer to that ever outstanding question “what does it take to get banned from this blog”.
Corner Stone
@Redshirt: So…you’re *not* into furry?
Omnes, Cole and I am. It’s cool. We’re all here having a good time. C’mon!
Omnes Omnibus
@danielx: Doubt it.
@Corner Stone: Don’t try to pull me into your sick little world. It’s heels and stockings for me.
John Weiss
WTF do we need with another war? I blowing shit up the only answer? It would be very cool if those saran stockpiles were covered with superglue.
Omnes Omnibus
@John Weiss: As you may have noted, we don’t currently have another war and the diplomatic efforts going on seem to indicate that people do not believe that blowing shit up is the only answer. Also, most of us are happy about this.
Ted & Hellen
@Cassidy:
You work really, really hard to push this “family man” act. A little too hard…
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Bullshit. You can paddle your fucking little douchecanoe right inside our convention hall with no problems. Stop it with your “High heels and mighty” routine.
You’re no better than us. No better!
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh, and BTW, this was the douchecanoe I was referring to that you can paddle on down in.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone:
Just keep telling yourself that. Some day, you may even believe it.
@Corner Stone: Quoi?
different-church-lady
@Redshirt: Well, we’ve had a lot of practice lately.
Ted & Hellen
Omnes, Omnibus, check your email dude.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Omnes Omnibus: “Quoi? “
Drink a fifth of JD and you’ll see it.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: At least this is late at night and on the dead end of a thread.
@Odie Hugh Manatee: I don’t like Jack Daniels. It tastes sour and off to me.
chopper
@John Weiss:
saran stockpiles
I have a few boxes of reynolds wrap under the sink.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@danielx:
Point out that T&H is a raging dry drunk.
Hey, it worked for me. I’m still banned if I use my home IP.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Well, you do deserve it.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@chopper:
Aluminum type of wrap and can it be used to make aluminum tubes?
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I’m curious as to who it was that banned you and why Special Timmeh’s latest nym isn’t banned (and still banned, for the little good it would do). I would hate to think that what you said was more objectionable than excusing Sandusky for raping boys like Special Timmeh did. Martin and you get banned yet Pedo Perv is motoring along like the energizer bunny powering a giant vibrating dong.
My how this place has fallen.
Yatsuno
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Jeebus. That STILL hasn’t been undone?
Ted & Hellen
@Yatsuno:
Nor will it be. She’s a menace.
Ripley
Thanks for the tip!
Yatsuno
@Ripley: It’s not exactly news.
Baud
I clearly went to bed last night at the right time.
HeartlandLiberal
Once more illustrating why we simply do not watch mainstream broadcast media in America any more. It has become a useless outlet for news, and nothing more or less than a disinformation infotainment tool of the corporate oligarchy and the 1%. Useless. I am still p*ssed with Al Jaezera for stopping their Internet streaming of their English broadcasts, within days of my just dropping my Comcast TV account altogether. Previously they streamed through Roku channel, so I could have continued watching because I still have my business class high speed Internet account.
From my email to a friend about Todd Young (R-09) announcing he will vote no on Syria authorization:
I would like to see those opposed, including Young, emphasize that there are better ways including diplomatic pressure and leveraging the U.N. to avoid war altogether. All politicians seem to be stuck in the rut thinking if they do not act like they are just aching to bomb somebody, they might not qualify for office.
In other words, it is not just worrying about the tactics and outcomes. How about some emphasis on the totally specious assertion of a casus belli.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Ripley:
I just might need to use tip this one day. I also heard that either Mnem or Martin also told Timmeh to take a long walk off of a tall building. I may have to combine the two into one line and lay it on Timmeh to see if I can get banned twice. If these lines were the cause of the banning of Mnem and Martin then some blogger here needs stop smelling the roses and pull their sensitive head out of their ass.
What they said is NOTHING to what others, including myself, have said here in the past. That’s some fucking pansy blogger we got here…lol!
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader?
Awesome, Corner Stone and Glenn Greenwald ruin another thread and prevent us from having the discussion we need to have. Thanks assholes.
A Humble Lurker
So no dick waving Nobel Prize winning today, dude?
Seriously, this post is a real throwing stones in glass houses kind of post, Mr. Cole.
eemom
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
The recent bannings most likely are selective enforcement by teh Goddess of Copy and Paste of some rules about civility she concocts upon occasional whim.
That’s why there’s no announcement of same, like when Cole does it. She gets off on this stealth power trip.
Joe Buck
There is only politics, there is no policy, and “journalists” think that they are judges on American Idol. Obama knows better but came very close to blundering into a war just to impress these people.
Ted & Hellen
@eemom:
Your carefully nursed envy-grudge against AL is boring.
FYI: COLE banned me the last time, for like 24 hours, along with Phlegmosyne, because we were impertinent to each other in some manner which displeased him.
How is it that I know more about this blog than some of the front pagers?
Probably because I am sleeping with JC, but still….
Mnemosyne
@Ted & Hellen:
I’m still banned from my home IP. But I guess it makes you happy that you totally won and got one of your enemies banned for two weeks for being impertinent to you while you were allowed back immediately.
eemom
@Ted & Hellen:
Yes, I am deeply envious of a petty tyrant who couldn’t write her way out of a paper bag.
‘sides, snookums, it’s you haz a jealous……. cuz AL loves Corner Stone way more than Cole loves you.
John Cole
@Mnemosyne: You aren’t banned. I gave you guys a 12 hour cooling off period the other day but immediately re-instated both of you.
Ted & Hellen
@Mnemosyne:
Very happy indeed.
Orgasmically so.
John and I were giggling about it in bed this morning. You know, afterward…
Ted & Hellen
@eemom:
Say it’s not true! Sob.