I’ve been too busy counting the Katrinas and Watergates to follow what’s going on in the House with, you know, funding the government. Jon Chait has a good run-down on what the sons of anarchy are up to this week:
Debt-ceiling threats now appear more likely, too. One of the things the ultraconservatives are demanding, in addition to their plan to shut down the government over Obamacare, is that the leadership go along with a backup plan to default on the national debt over Obamacare. And the more House leaders have had to wrangle votes for its fake-Obamacare-defunding plan to not shut down the government, the more they’ve had to pledge to use the debt ceiling instead.
Of course, defaulting on the debt would be far more dangerous than shutting down the government. House leaders don’t want to do that, but they don’t seem to have any plan beyond getting past the next obstacle in front of their face. As Jake Sherman and John Bresnahan report, “In private discussions, GOP leadership aides acknowledge they have absolutely no idea how they’ll lift the $16.7 trillion debt ceiling.”
If anything bad happens, it will be the fault of both sides. Why can’t Obama charm John Boehner the way the Gipper did with Tip? As if that would fucking matter. I’d like to see Zombie Reagan try talking Steve King and Louie Gohmert off the ledge.
Update. Sorry for the two near-simultaneous posts. I’m not rescheduling it since we usually have three or four up by these time of day!
GregB
If only Obama invited the GOP to more movie nights this could all be avoided.
Redshirt
Perhaps it’s time for a real crisis to break us out of this stalemate of a small percentage of crazy people holding everyone else hostage? We’re not supposed to negotiate with terrorists, after all, right? Only encourages them to make further demands.
schrodinger's cat
I don’t know what is worse, the GOP or our media clown parade of FAIL.
Waspuppet
Notice how, in these Tip & Ronnie scenarios, everyone complains that Obama doesn’t act more like Ronnie but no one ever, an I mean ever, says Boehner should act more like Tip?
I wonder why that is. No, I don’t really.
Baud
I have a plan. Put it for an up or down vote in the House.
Or maybe that’s too complex for Boehner.
dmsilev
It’s like watching an overstressed and somewhat clueless parent trying to deal with a three-year-old in the middle of a full-fledged screaming tantrum. “Do you want your
blanketsymbolic Obamacare repeal bill?” “I DONT WANNA BLANKET !1! I WANNA REPEAL BAMACARE!11!”It’s a wonder that Boehner (R-OompaLoompaStan) hasn’t decided to just quit and become a full time lobbyist-golfer.
dmsilev
@Baud: The downside of that, from the POV of Boehner, is that he’d be inviting a coup. For reasons that continue to mystify me, he seems to want to keep his Speakership despite the fact that he’s not really doing much of anything with it.
Baud
@dmsilev:
Boehner’s job is worth a global economic meltdown.
Napoleon
@dmsilev:
But can they actually remove him? I understand he may not win if he seeks reelection (though I bet a majority of his conference have his back) but is there something like a no confidence vote?
piratedan
@dmsilev: it pays better and for a guy who was virtually a complete nonentity before Obama’s election, I imagine it hasn’t hurt his skimming off of the pile of sweet 1% cash that is floating around in various and sundry slush funds, plus it means a better pick of the lucrative lobbying gigs when he does finally walk/stagger.
dmsilev
@Napoleon: I think it’s possible. Looking back at Newt Gingrich, Wikipedia has this to say:
So they, and in a lovely bit of irony ‘they’ includes John Boehner’, certainly believed it was possible to vote out Gingrich if he didn’t step down willingly.
scav
@dmsilev: All the parent’s other children being thus left unattended while parent deals with screamer.
Problem is, the highway they’re walking along is actually rather large and busy. Big trucks.
Linda Featheringill
I haven’t been keeping up with this issue. Are we really to the point where we’ll default on our debts if the House Republicans don’t come to our rescue?
Isn’t there some other way to handle the situation?
Interest rates for federal debt are really low right now. Maybe we could do some form of “refinancing”?
MattF
I wouldn’t be surprised by a ‘Boehnercare’ coup, followed by a House of Representatives resolution affirming its sacred patriotic duty to fling feces at the White House.
Botsplainer
@Baud:
Wonder how many times a day Boehner is tempted to go to Hastert’s house in order to kick his ass over the Hastert Rule?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@dmsilev:
They tried after the election and it failed. Apparently there is no one in the GOP house who can replace Boehner.
Alex S.
I really try to keep up with the latest developments on the wingnut front. I also try to get a basic understanding of current policy debates despite some other things that occasionally keep me occupied. But this time, with this House GOP scheme with the test vote to defund Obamacare with the intention of not defunding Obamacare or something like that, and the debt ceiling/government shutdown scenarios in the background, I say, go ahead, do what you want, I don’t care. I will not follow them into their madness this time.
SatanicPanic
This reeks of desperation. Next they’ll be trying to levitate the Pentagon.
Chyron HR
Don’t worry, the debt ceiling will be raised somehow, it always is. Then the MSM/FDL axis of derp can declare that the great Boehner saved Obama from his own stupidity.
MattF
@Alex S.: I think the wingers have lost whatever political ‘mojo’ they might have had. If they’d made good on any of their threats over the past three years, it might be worth following. But these days, after forty pointless votes to undo Obamacare, it’s all clown car– and I think they know it.
PeakVT
This is the GOP. Also, this, though the latter also supports whorish Dems.
Napoleon
@dmsilev:
Interesting.
I agree with Enhanced Voting Techniques that I don’t think they have someone who they can agree on replacing him with. It would also be interesting to see what the Dems do. No reason to believe they don’t get to vote as well, right, and why assume that 100% of them would vote under those conditions against Boehner.
Baud
@Chyron HR:
Boehner/Putin 2016!
azlib
It is interesting the markets seem to be blissfully unaware of this impending catastrophe.
Gene108
Default on debt. Trigger recession in 2014. Blame it on Obamacare = GOP win.
Linda Featheringill
@azlib:
Thank you! The markets seem to be driven by nervous Nellies and if they aren’t worried, then perhaps the danger is being over-hyped.
The Moar You Know
@Linda Featheringill:
Yes.
No.
We already did that, and I think we may still be doing it. It’s not enough.
I should also add that forcing a government shutdown or debt default now – when the economy has at least stabilized – will have dire consequences for the Republican party, and I suspect would result in a formal split between pro-business Republicans and the Teahadi wing.
Baud
The real problem Boehner has is, say you default, then what? The Democrats aren’t giving in on Obamacare, so the question is not whether the Republicans will cave on a debt-limit increase, but whether they will destroy the world economy before they do. Boehner understands this and so do the money men who finance the Republican Party.
MattF
@Linda Featheringill: Well, markets are calm until they aren’t. My free advice for the next several months is keep your eyes shut and hold on to your chapeau.
CaseyL
@Gene108: People* are dumb, but I doubt they’re that dumb.
* This category does not include the MSM, which not only is “that dumb,” but makes a bag of hair look downright brilliant.
Chyron HR
@SatanicPanic:
If it’s anything like spoon bending, the trick is to select the Pentagon that was already levitating before the show.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
Remember, folks, Both Sides, Same Thing, except Dems are worse and the real super-mega-ultra evil in this Country and to blame for EVERYTHING.
Bleh…..GOP is really not going to play a price for this bullshit brinksmanship, are they? They’ve established too much of a solid floor that they can pull this shit over and over and fucking over again and still remain ‘competitive’ nationally and outright dominant on the state level down.
chopper
welp, time for the yearly hostage situation.
J
“I’d like to see Zombie Reagan try talking Steve King and Louie Gohmert off the ledge.”
There is an attractive ambiguity in talk of these characters being talked “off the ledge”.
piratedan
@J: yup, so nice to see that the debt ceiling thing is just a political ploy and that the R’s are coming clean about it. Our deficit is dropping as fast as the credibility of the MSM and these guys are still willing to hold the nation hostage simply because they can.
chopper
@chopper:
the more times they pull this shit and take us right to the edge, the more associated they become with it.
Betty Cracker
@The Moar You Know:
That would be poetic justice on par with a vicious fighting dog turning on and mauling its trainer since the Chamber of Commerce types created and empowered the Teahadis as cover so they could loot the Treasury and return the US to the Gilded Age.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@chopper:
But is associating them with it still enough to actually make them pay a price at this point? Like I said, they seem to have such a solid minimum of support that they can pull this shit without any real consequence once short-term memory kicks over for elections. They do this because they can and avoid the worse of the damage from national self-sabotage, while the adults in the room get shat on for not accommodating to the other side in the grand spirit of bipartisanship.
feebog
Currently there are 201 Democrats in the house. Democrats need to pick up 17 seats net in 2014 to regain the majority. The Boner is not only worried about a coup, if his party shuts down the government, or even worse, defaults on the debt, even gerrymandered districts may not save him.
chopper
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
dunno. I would hope the GOP eats shit for generations but that assumes that Americans give a shit about things.
Baud
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
Except for 2010, the GOP has badly lost every election since 2006. They only reason they still control the House is because of extreme gerrymandering.
Fair Economist
Boehner’s speakership is safe, because with a badly divided Republican caucus, another speakership election will make Pelosi kingmaker. No congressional Republican wants that. IMO she’d probably have the Dems vote to keep him in in return for some concession like easier discharge petitions. At the same time Boehner doesn’t want to be even less popular with his caucus so he really doesn’t want to hold a vote on the debt ceiling against the will of his caucus. He’ll give in at the 11th hour if he absolutely has to, but not before.
Suffern ACE
@Baud: Yeah, but unfortunately extreme gerrymandering elects real Congressmen who have real actual seats in Congress. And unfortunately, if the businemen were actually in control, they would find different candidates.
Our businessmen aren’t really all that saavy and in fact some of them are kind of freaky. What the GOP represents is that our business class if full of freaks.
schrodinger's cat
OT from the NYT’s Dealbook
The British Government is privatizing its Postal Service.
Redshirt
Furthermore, I don’t see why the Wingnuts won’t burn it all down. Why not? The people who elect them won’t hold them responsible; the MSM will do their “both sides” dance and split the middle; and there will be dedicated, non-stop propaganda from Fox and the rest shouting that it’s all Obama’s fault.
The rich people will stay rich, and all the rest of us will suffer.
Where’s the downside for a Teabagger? In fact, there’s probably a big upside, as they can prove to their constituents that they stood up to that evil Obama.
Baud
@Redshirt:
GOP political power depends on maintaining the perception that the war on liberals is being fought “over there.” If their own constituents start feeling like they’re being affected by it, they’re going to lose a lot of support.
Frankensteinbeck
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
Yes, they will pay, but because they’re short term thinkers they pay over the long term – and it’s hard to see the long term while it’s happening. They’re paying in demographics. With every election, there’s a percentage point less Angry Old White People. Because of their insane partisanship, they don’t have a core of Angry Young Multiracial Bigots to replace them. It’s a slow process, but as @Baud just pointed out, they’re already on the edge of the cliff. Remember Reagan’s 1984 victory? They’ve fallen a long, long, long way.
eldorado
mint the damn coin
MomSense
Oh, this reminds me that Chuck Todd (I think but they are all starting to blur together) was talking about either ObamaCare or Syria (they are both starting to blur together) and complaining that the President hadn’t just explained it carefully like a teacher to the American public.
Of course if he did do that he would be too “professorial” and “aloof” because all the very serious people understand that all the president needs to do is schmooz and drink and have dinner with the Republicans and all would be black and white Pleasantville again.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Frankensteinbeck:
This would make me feel more at ease if not for the fact that their power in the short term looks to have serious and excessive long-term ramifications, some of which seem set to negate their problems such as said demographic death spiral (after all, it doesn’t matter if you can keep said demographics from voting). Not to mention their nigh dominance on the state level and lower.
? Martin
@Redshirt:
I don’t either. They’ve already come to terms with secession – this is just a mile marker down that same road.
Belafon
@eldorado: Making sure to get it in early, huh?
ETA: I saw on the news this morning that KMart already has a Christmas ad out.
Shrillhouse
@Suffern ACE:
I’ve got three numbers for you, and they are all 9s.
? Martin
@Suffern ACE:
It’s a bad crutch. They get an inflated sense of what the public wants and go even harder against public opinion. Eventually the backlash is so strong that the gerrymandering can’t contain it, they lose complete control, the gerrymandering is undone, and they find themselves so far in the weeds that they practically have to start over. NC is looking like a perfect model of that.
Redshirt
@Baud: True, in theory. In practice, they’ll blame Obama.
I listen to sports radio exclusively, but they do a brief current news blurb. This morning they referred to federal spending cuts as “Obama’s Sequester”.
That’s our world now. Filled to the brim with lies and propaganda.
Redshirt
@? Martin: I’m glad you mentioned secession, because what this really is is a “Cold” Civil War. If you think of current politics in that light, then it’s war, and all bets are off.
Belafon
@MomSense: Actually, if he did try to explain, which he has on multiple occasions, they either won’t carry it, or will just start talking over him after three minutes about why he’s not really explaining anything to the American people.
Baud
@Redshirt:
I don’t disagree. But blaming Obama is an order of magnitude different from encouraging Republicans to maintain a war with Obama that is hurting their bottom line. General Lee did eventually surrender, after all.
Redshirt
@Baud: The CSA version of Fox news was nowhere near as effective. Who was the Confederate Rush? The Rebel Drudge?
MomSense
@Belafon:
Exactly what always happens. My hatred of our failed media experiment is at guillotine levels.
The Moar You Know
@Redshirt: Sadly, only one of the sides involved realizes that it’s a war.
? Martin
@Redshirt: Agreed.
Baud
@Redshirt:
C’mon. They were there, in the form of newspapers and pamphleteers, not to mention public officials. I don’t know their names, but their rhetoric was no less divisive.
kindness
The GOP not getting anything done is a feature not a bug.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@kindness:
Especially when they can blame it on the ‘intractability’ and ‘hyper-partisanship’ of the Dems and Obama. Projection may have diminishing returns, but it still works far more often than not, and far more often than it should.
muddy
I’m assuming he still has the speakership because no one else wants it.
Ted & Hellen
What’s great though is how Obama has been using the nonexistent bully pulpit to endlessly beat the Republicans over the head with their bullshit over the debt and upcoming potential crisis, you know, making prime time speeches about how important this is, having his cabinet members and advisers make prominent, daily speeches and have press conferences, etc. etc, etc.to make sure it is at the top of the front pages day after day…
…oh wait. He’s been doing that to show us his big, massive war dick instead.
Because there is no bully pulpit. Well, there is, but only when there’s war to be had and threats to be made at a country half a world away.
But again: There is no bully pulpit. Remember that.
Suffern ACE
@? Martin: @MomSense: It’s funny. The president can explain. Kessler will issue two pinnochios. Chuck Todd will worry about tone and decide that it’s not his job to explain what is going on to his viewers while a panel of four pundits will agree that that tone should change and that it is not the job of the media to offer analysis of policy.
muddy
Bully pulpit does not mean bully people over to your point of view. TR’s slang meant differently.
For pity’s sake, why does it have to be about the big swinging war dick all the time with you? I realize you have an interest in this direction, but damn man. I will at least thank you for changing the imagery from the helicoptering of the giant war dick and now just saying “showing” it.
A Humble Lurker
@Ted & Hellen:
That’s right. Huh, sort of a first for you.
Belafon
@Ted & Hellen: What’s great T&H, is how often you have missed his speeches about these issues. Part of it’s not your fault, Fox doesn’t run Obama stuff unless it’s about war, but, as stated earlier, he makes these speeches, but they are boring, and the media doesn’t like boring.
SFAW
@Redshirt:
So charge the latter-day Jeff Davises, et al., with Treason. Throw in a charge or two of “economic terrorism” and you’re all set. Chuck and Dave Koch might find their influence decreases, the closer they get to the end of a rope. If they had a few of their Teabagger acolytes swinging with them, so much the better.
What, you don’t think they’re giving “aid and comfort” to the Enemy? Hell, they ARE the Enemy, because they’re actively trying to destroy a functional US Government.
Five years ago, I would have said this as a joke. Now, not so much.
SFAW
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
Well, when your supporters have the collective IQ of a bed of kelp, it’s not hard to get that shit to work.
SFAW
@Belafon:
It’s not the “boring” part that’s the problem, it’s the “big words” part.
MomSense
@Suffern ACE:
Sad, depressing, and true.
muddy
I just had a good laugh looking over the headlines in the WaPo email, and here I see Ted Cruz, bravely saying he’s somewhere in between Rand Paul (supposed libertarian) and John McCain (usually in favor of bombing everyone).
Does that cover the entire range of Republican views, why yes it does! And that brave Ted Cruz has staked a firm position! Of somewhere, somewhen, between alpha and omega. Whatta man.
Belafon
@SFAW: Very true. If it’s any longer or has more syllables than paycheck, they aren’t inclined to listen.
IowaOldLady
A young guy I know works at a golf course where Boehner recently played. This guy was raised in an ACORN terrified southern household and his brief exposure to Boehner led him to say Boehner is an “A-hole.” I wouldn’t invite him over for tea either.
VOR
Tip O’Neill cared about keeping the government running. He was willing to compromise and was an experienced politician who understood deal-making. Not even in the same category as Steve King or Louie Gohmert.
SFAW
@Belafon:
Either that, or talk about the Kenyan Mooslim Bocialist Fascist Usurper, etc. etc. (although that contains two words of three syllables).
SFAW
@VOR:
Oh, bullshit. Both sides do it.
NotMax
@muddy
Somewhat to the north, south, east and west of Screwball.
The Moar You Know
@SFAW: Don’t slander kelp, unlike teatards, kelp is really very useful.
Redshirt
@SFAW: I agree, but that’s not on the political table as of now. That’s why I said perhaps its time for a real crisis to force these issues to some form of resolution. Much like the period 1800-1860, American politics was about compromising with slaveholding authoritarians, which led to war. Which would have resolved the issue if Reconstruction were not handled as it were – and thus, we continue fighting that very same war. On a very different battleground today.
SFAW
@The Moar You Know:
Sorry, I hadn’t really considered kelp’s feelings. My ‘umblest apologies to you kelpic friends.
Punchy
Nothing says “Party of Personal Responsibilty” like whelching on yer debts….
PurpleGirl
@Belafon: Oh yeah, it’s been on the TV a couple of days now — a gingerbread man stalking a woman in an office. It’s for their lay-a-way program.
Sir Nose'D
CREAM, baby.
I do recall the last time there was a threat of default, a number of GOP congressthings took short positions on U.S. Treasury ETFs, and then proceeded to vote for defaulting. In other words, they bet real money that the value of treasury bills would go down (as they will in the case of a default), and then proceeded to vote for default.
Assholes, one and all, and I have no doubt they will do that again.
SFAW
@Redshirt:
Agreed. But remember: before Obama became “alleged commander-in-chief” (thanks, Rummy, you fucking war criminal!), default on the debt wasn’t on the table either. All it takes is a few committed souls to effect change.
Charge ’em with Treason/Terrorism, convict them, execute a few of the bigger mofos, and you’ll be amazed at how much stuff gets done, all of a sudden.
And Mark Kessler will declare War on the Federal Government, with predictable results.
muddy
@Sir Nose’D: Treason.
Anoniminous
After another round of Kabuki for the rubes Congress will raise the debt ceiling. If they don’t it will set off a round of derivative induced global financial panic, trash the global economy, and collapse US’s ability to import oil.
SFAW
@muddy:
What do you have against capitalism, you commie? They saw an opportunity, plus the chance to make a little pocket change for their efforts, so what’s the problem?
It’s not as if they were trying to damage the government or country or anything. It’s certainly not as un-American as point-shaving.
You’re just jealous because you didn’t think quickly enough to make some money yerself. Looser.
boatboy_srq
@? Martin: Another reason why eviction should be part of the debate. The
ConfederatesTeahadists want “out” – well fine: propose that any state costing the federal government 120% of its tax receipts should be “outsourced” as a cost-savings measure. If they truly think that running the US is like running a family budget and/or a business, then they’ll be all in favor of liquidating states – um, assets – and selling off unprofitable constituencies – er, divisions to help offset all the spending. I’m sure there’s an Emirate or OPEC member who’d love to snap up Texa$ or Loui$iana.The trouble with these volk has always been that they have problems racking up bills they don’t think they owe: once the federal largesse ends, we’ll start to see their real thoughts on Big Gubmint.
muddy
@SFAW: I don’t even want that dirty money, so there! That’s how pink I am.
Chyron HR
@Ted & Hellen:
I’m genuinely impressed how you manage to hide all those pills under your tongue without the nurse noticing.
SFAW
@muddy:
Well, as long as we got that straightened out.
muddy
@SFAW: Not as though I don’t like money, mind you, just not the kind dripping with treason.
My dad used to say that he would be happy to have his Social Security checks means tested and taken away. But he said he would not do it voluntarily until the Republican assholes had to do it too, and in the meanwhile spent the money opposing them.
bemused
Teapartiers crave destruction.
muddy
@bemused: Whip that tablecloth away!
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat: Wow, and right about the time it seems like British public sentiment has turned against privatized rail since the mask has been ripped off as to just how deeply the public is subsidizing private profit.
What makes sense: regulating a monopoly and guaranteeing a certain profit (no more, no less) supported by ratepayers. (Exceptions: when said monopoly builds power plants that were never needed and ratepayers are stuck with the bill.)
What doesn’t make sense: paying a management company to run a service that cannot make money and always loses money. Unless you’re the management company.
Veolia. Keolis. RATP. FirstGroup. MV. Virgin.
Remember the names. They’ll be back.
Another Holocene Human
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
I’ve got good news for you then.
http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/09/university_of_alabama_sororities_bar_black_pledges.html
(although it’s weird, looks like thegrio.com where I read this took the article down?)
http://cw.ua.edu/2013/09/11/the-final-barrier-50-years-later-segregation-still-exists/
(original stories)
The kids are alright.
bemused
@muddy:
Yup, and that image would be a great cartoon.
Another Holocene Human
@Belafon: Fox doesn’t run Obama stuff unless it’s about war,
I believe you mean the New England Cable News.
NR
The sequester has been so awesome, I can’t wait for Obama’s next victory over the Republicans!
muddy
@bemused: After whipping the tablecloth out and their tea cups shattered they would all commence to shrieking that it was Obama’s fault. They wouldn’t have had to break all that shit if he were not just standing there making them feel inadequate.
The Republic of Stupidity
“It’s FrankenstEEN…”
Neldob
One thing these people are not is conservative.
patroclus
@NR: Do you follow politics? The sequester was the Republicans’ idea and they got it because of the blackmail over the last debt ceiling “crisis.”
Frankensteinbeck
@patroclus:
To be fair, hardly anyone here or anywhere thought it would go through. Both houses (but especially the GOP) have a long history of viewing defense spending as the holiest of sacred cows. It is a sign of just how insane the GOP have gone that a large portion of their caucus is happy to cut defense if they can cut even the smallest amount of social services in the process.
Cain
The Chait link lead me to some fun articles. Boehner’s frustration with his own party is quite amusing to me. He can’t get any solution in. If he was a true leader, he would have told those those guys to suck an egg and work with the Democrats and ignore the ultraconservatives.
Boehner’s problem is that he kisses ultra conservative ass, and trying to please them because of all the money’d interests. Maybe he and the others might get kicked out, but eventually the entire thing is going to run it’s course. There is only so much profit right wing ideology is going to bring you.
jl
@Frankensteinbeck:
The leadership is trying to talk some sense ino the crazy base they nurtured for so long, and the base won’t listen.
So now they are trying to sell the ridiculous and dangerous idea to threaten default to DELAY health care reform ONE stinking year (not repeal it, not defund it, just delay it, one stinking year).
That is going to go over like a lead balloon, both with the base and the other 60-65 percent of the voting public, but for different reasons.
Talk about desperation.
Cantor: If We Can’t Defund Obamacare, Let’s Delay It
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/09/eric-cantor-obamacare-debt-ceiling-shutdown-default.php
muddy
@jl: Cantor: Yes We Can’t !!!
danielx
House GOP:
If you don’t do what I want, I’ll be forced to shoot you and then it will be your fault I murdered you because you didn’t do what i want.
Oh, and I’ll stamp my feet too.
Also, too – both sides do it so why blame us? We’re just doing what our nutball constituents want us to do.
fuckwit
This is the best President we’ve ever had at winning battles against terrorists. He’s running operations to fight them everywhere, not just in caves in Pakistan, in the palaces of rogue states like Syria, but even in the Congress of his own country.
There, I’ve said it, and I’ll say it again: the Rethugs are terrorists. They are nihilists at best, traitors at worst. They are deliberately trying to destroy the government of the United States of America. They might not using violence, but they clearly are attempting to destroy the federal government by whatever means they can find. I don’t think their choice of tactics makes their goals or their motivations any less reprehensible.
I’m very proud of how the President deals with those clowns. He’s gotten so much practice he’s becoming the best I’ve ever seen at it.
Suffern ACE
@Cain: If only Obama weren’t a weak-kneed liberal who no one really likes. Then Boehner would be a true leader that even a Dowd could follow.
NR
@patroclus: That can’t possibly be true. Right after the sequester happened, everyone in the comments here was talking about how it was a huge win for Obama and he absolutely ate the Republicans’ lunch in the negotiations. Since commenters here are never wrong about politics, I suggest you adjust your view of the situation.
Another Holocene Human
@Punchy: whelking on your debts sounds vaguely nautical
fuckwit
Hmm, and I just thought of another thing. The reason they oppose Obamacare so viciously is because it would remove the biggest terror hanging over all of us: the threat that if we get fired, we (and our kids) will not be able to get medical care, and die.
It’s just terrorism, rule by fear. The Rethugs want us to be terrorized, afraid, terrified of getting fired, compliant, cowed. If we all had free or even just affordable medical care we wouldn’t be so afraid, we’d be stronger.
The use of fear in Rethug ideology and tactics is more widespread than I thought. From Orange Alerts and “terror terror terror” of the Bush years, to the constant economic terror of having no safety net in this country, to the fire-and-brimstone preachers of the fundamentalist stripe, it’s amazing to me how widely the ruling classes in this supposedly sunnily optimistic land of opportunity use terror to keep us all afraid and in line– a rule by terror.
It’s a theme with them, really.
Another Holocene Human
@muddy: Cantor: Yes, We Can’t, Or Else?
celticdragonchick
@Redshirt:
This.
Another Holocene Human
@fuckwit: Ding ding ding
Ben Cisco
@fuckwit:
I’m so stealing this.
muddy
@fuckwit: I was in conversation with a couple of Republicans-call-themselves-Libertarian guys, and when I thought I found we had found an area of agreement they suddenly turned it into something really abusive and ugly.
We had agreed that too many people are incarcerated and what a waste of money. I said, jokingly, that for what it costs I would be happy to host a couple of the prisoners in my basement, and I bet the prisoners would prefer it as well, thus being happier and doing better when they got done.
These guys instantly turned it into the prisoners being shackled just long enough to enable you to slave them good and proper. I said they don’t need to pay their way with labor, the gov’t in this scenario has already paid their way. They are just supposed to sit there, like in prison.
Nope, did not compute. They want no part of that, the best part to them was enslaving the people and making it really miserable for them. I said I thought society would prefer the prisoners getting out of my prison than theirs. Said I would make deals with the prisoners that they would get a portion of the big bucks the gov’t paid me to keep them in the basement if they completed their terms without causing me problems, get them started on a new life.
These guys thought they should just be slaved and punished and when they got out penniless and abused they would probably fuck up and then go back to prison. I could not reconcile this with their desire to have less people in prison because money+freedom. But I am a silly libtard, what do I know with my idiotic pipe dreams of better outcomes.
Chris
@muddy:
There’s a streak running through that entire side of the aisle that’s difficult to explain as anything other than sadism.
They want to watch people suffer, so they go out in search of guilty people that they can make suffer without it troubling their conscience. (And if they can’t find any guilty people, they’ll make them up).
jl
@fuckwit:
Maybe so. Now that health reform has passed, their other very conscious fear is that it will work. And voters in the deep red states that have tried to mess it up will look over the border to smarter states and put one and one together.
What will the GOP say? That Teddy Roosevelt (ex-R at the time) campaigned for it but they couldn’t follow the lead of one of their greatest presidents for over one hundred years. Or that Nixon considered it but thought ripping off people with lousy HMOs was a better idea for business, but not patients?
They’ve been digging themselves into a box (edit” meant deep hole) ever since Clinton drove them crazy, since they fell in love with messes like Bush II, and especially ever since the fiendish Dr. evil mastermind time traveler / inadequate in-over-his-head blah Obama drove them batshit insane.
muddy
@Chris: Such projection, as they are generally the guilty ones, but nothing should ever come down on them. It really is a startling lack of natural empathy.
boatboy_srq
@fuckwit: @muddy: Randian Libertarianism seems to translate to “it’s all your own fault for [insert misfortune that could have been prevented by proper oversight or freedom from corporate malfeasance here] (which BTW makes me better than you because it hasn’t happened to me yet) because nobody is miserable enough.” It’s Catholic Guilt squared with a dollop of unhelpfulness for good measure, all in the name of Personal Responsibility™ and the Blessedness of Teh Elect™. These volk are truly nasty. They read Dickens not as critique but as instruction, and watch Les Mis to root for Javert not Valjean. If there’s ever a Bureau for the Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue they’ll be the first
InquisitorsAgents to sign up.Death Penalty? Check. Penury for economic/medical misfortune? Check. Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons?
jl
@jl: I was a little unfair to Nixon, since I’ve red liberal Dems scuttled Nixon’s first proposal. On other hand, Nixon didn’t make it a priority and keep at it like Obama, and he sure jumped on the HMOs designed to make more money and deliver less care quick, as soon as it was proposed to him.
mclaren
Republicans are now crazed hostage-takers with bombs strapped to their bodies screaming threats and making insane demands.
Time to declare the Republicans enemy combatants and take ’em out with Delta Force.