Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Text STOP to opt out of updates on war plans.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Donald Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

We will not go back.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Navy Yard Shooting

Reader Interactions

262Comments

  1. 1.

    piratedan

    no matter what happens, it’s plainly obvious that more gun laws aren’t the answer…. thoughts with those suffering through the latest edition of our national madness.

  3. 3.

    Tone in DC

    It’s a fucking epidemic.

    Sad thing is, these random senseless homicides have become so commonplace over the last few years, I might be getting numb to them.

  4. 4.

    raven

    Police say three shooters, including at least one in fatigues, have shot at least 10 people at the Washington Navy Yard on Monday..

  8. 8.

    IowaOldLady

    Holy shit. A guy I know works a couple blocks from there and says a guy with bullet wound in his head collapsed outside his window. Ambulance took him away.

  9. 9.

    karen

    I live in Maryland so watching this on the news and hearing about the dead, just looks too familiar…

    On 9/11 my husband worked in a federal building and at the time we’d heard that government buildings were being attacked so I was terrified, everyone in our office building left work and we were waiting outside for the bus and just kept hearing about more dead.

    Please don’t flame me but today just feels the same to me.

    Schools in the area are on lockdown.

  10. 10.

    Punchy

    In Europe they call it the Navy Meter.

    Edit: OK, looks like this may not be the time to be funny. 4 dead is serious shit. My bad

  11. 11.

    sparrow

    Is it normal to hold airport traffic in a case like this? I understand things are still unfolding, but that seems like a bit of a stretch, unless they really think someone managed to flee the scene.

  14. 14.

    Tone in DC

    @karen:

    I live in Maryland so watching this on the news and hearing about the dead, just looks too familiar…

    On 9/11 my husband worked in a federal building and at the time we’d heard that government buildings were being attacked so I was terrified, everyone in our office building left work and we were waiting outside for the bus and just kept hearing about more dead.

    I was working in the area south of the Pentagon in September 2001. I agree, it does seem familiar. As does late 2002, around this area.

  15. 15.

    Punchy

    @sparrow: They shut down the airport? Seems like an overreaction. NBC showed a shot of a nearby street and there appeared to be at least 30 police cars. So many that they blocked each other in. Seems like a bit much, too.

  16. 16.

    ET

    Have only hard there were at least 2 shooters (one may have been captured/taken down), but I am going to just wait. Also, heard there are 4 dead and 10 shot.

  17. 17.

    Ash Can

    @sparrow: My guess is that National Airport is close enough to the Naval Yard that they didn’t want to take any chances with stray bullets hitting aircraft. Only a guess though.

  21. 21.

    FoxinSocks

    I’ve noticed with a lot of these mass shootings that there’s oftentimes reports at first of multiple shooters. I think in all the chaos, with lots of cops running around with their weapons drawn, that it’s easy to think there are more shooters than there actually are. I’m betting that it turns out there’s only one. Which is one too many.

  22. 22.

    Ben Grimm

    My brother’s right near there, but we’ve emailed and he’s ok. I was getting that sick sinking feeling until I talked to our dad about it, though, and found out he had talked to him.

  24. 24.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    What a wonderful way to celebrate the NRA’s successful recall of the two state senators in Colorado.

    This nation is drenched in the blood of those murdered by firearms from sea to shining sea. And yet this nation’s citizens demand the right for even more to die.

    If this is freedom you can keep it.

  25. 25.

    Poopyman

    @sparrow: Couple of possibilities. They need choppers to be coming and going, which is too close to Nat’l Airport’s flight path. And the big jets create a lot of noise around there.

    It looks like shooters are at large.

  26. 26.

    sparrow

    @joes527: I hadn’t thought of the weapons angle, good point. I didn’t think about the proximity of Reagan either. It’s right next door. My friend that works at the Navy Research Lab watches planes land all day from his office. SO yeah, probably not a bad idea to hold traffic for a while, at least until they’re sure they’ve contained the shooters.

  30. 30.

    Mike in NC

    @joes527:

    Does the yard contain weapons that could threaten air traffic?

    After the 9/11 terrorist attack on the Pentagon, they installed mobile surface-to-air missile launchers on the top deck of one of the Navy Yard’s parking garages.

  32. 32.

    CaseyL

    The sheer randomness of these things always gets to me: people who get up, get dressed, go to work, do all the normal stuff…. and then they get shot. The abrupt pivot from mundane to horror.

  34. 34.

    FonzieScheme

    @CaseyL: Which is why these sorts of domestic shootings should be considered “terrorism”, but as long as they involve white dudes behind the trigger conveniently aren’t.

  35. 35.

    glocksman

    Can we at least hold off on the gun control debate until we have some facts about the situation to use?
    Though I suppose at least it’s BJ’s saving grace that no one has yet posted that Radical Muslims™ were behind the attack.

  37. 37.

    Poopyman

    @Shana: No it’s not. The Naval Research Lab is across the river from National. The Navy Yard is less than a half-mile southeast of the Capitol.

  38. 38.

    Poopyman

    WRC is reporting gunshots inside the building a couple of minutes ago. Although really, these people need to calm the fuck down.

  40. 40.

    Face

    @glocksman: Yes, let’s confirm a gun was used instead of, say, a bazooka, before we ask about gun control measures. Otherwise we’ll have wasted our time advocating for sane gun safety legislation when we should have pushed for limits on bazooka magazines.

  42. 42.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @glocksman:

    Can we at least hold off on the gun control debate until we have some facts about the situation to use?

    Facts 1: Gun/s were used.
    Fact 2: Multiple victims.

    OK, now we can argue.

  43. 43.

    FonzieScheme

    @glocksman: And, witness the reaction to the Beltway Sniper, who was black.

    It’s not always so cut-and-dried, of course, but there does seem to be a pattern there.

  45. 45.

    glocksman

    @Face:

    If, and I say, if, the shooter(s) are AQ or some other terrorist group, gun laws have fuck all to do with their obtaining weapons.
    If it’s some whacko who bought an AR at a gun show, then of course gun laws are relevant.

    What I am saying it wait for some facts before you use this incident to argue either for or against gun control legislation.

  46. 46.

    piratedan

    @glocksman: sorry man, unsure how this situation is somehow going to end up allowing us to focus more on responsible gun ownership….but who knows, this is America where the only exceptionalism is in our capacity for self delusion.

  47. 47.

    Face

    @glocksman: Does it really matter? There’s zero percent chance any gun safety measures are passed in Congress no matter what the facts are. Arguing about it on a blog is a waste of photons and electrons.

  48. 48.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @glocksman:

    If, and I say, if, the shooter(s) are AQ or some other terrorist group, gun laws have fuck all to do with their obtaining weapons.

    Even if those self same terrorists acquired their weapons at a gun show? Or bought them at a licensed gun dealer for that matter?

  49. 49.

    Poopyman

    Here’s CrooksandLiars’ quote from the WaPo:

    Police believe they have pinned down a shooter who has been firing at people in the Washington Navy Yard Monday morning, wounding at least 10 people.

    Police said that they believe the shooter is somewhere between the third and fourth floors of one of the buildings on the installation in Southeast Washington, but they declined to identify it further.

    As hundreds of police officers from various agencies converged on the scene, officials at Reagan National Airport ordered all outgoing flights held.

    Police on the scene said eight civilians were shot, along with the two police officers. One is a D.C. Metro Police officer who was shot two times in the leg, police said. The other officer worked at the base.

  50. 50.

    IowaOldLady

    My friend says his building is locked down. He’s retired navy working for a contractor and everyone from the Naval Yard who works on his program has come to their building. They heard 5 shots and then left. He says some of them are pretty shaken up.

  51. 51.

    Shalimar

    @glocksman: We definitely need this incident to make a good argument, because those other 457,906 incidents of morons/sociopaths using guns to kill people don’t make much of a point on their own.

  53. 53.

    Elizabelle

    A grey day just became greyer.

    But I’m still smiling that we won’t have Fed Chair Larry Summers. Will hold on to that bit of satisfaction.

  54. 54.

    Bobby Thomson

    If, and I say, if, the shooter(s) are AQ or some other terrorist group, gun laws have fuck all to do with their obtaining weapons.

    Because shut up that’s why.

    Our gun laws make it very easy for terrorists to obtain weapons. May be a fact you don’t want to admit but it’s a fact. They might be willing to jump through additional hoops, but you’re telling me I have to remove my clothing every time I want to fly a plane but it’s too much of a hassle to have a few background checks?

  55. 55.

    glocksman

    @piratedan:

    I don’t know either, but the reflexive piling on without knowing anything at all about the situation is goddamn annoying.

    Depending upon the facts, this may very well be the poster child case for increased realistic* regulation of guns, or it may not.
    We just don’t know.

    Shit, it’s the same way on my local paper’s site, except the sheep there are all piling on Radical Muslims™ and calling this Fort Hood redux.

    *By realistic I mean AW bans, mag limits, background checks, etc.
    Total bans are not realistic in the USA.

  56. 56.

    max

    @FonzieScheme: Which is why these sorts of domestic shootings should be considered “terrorism”, but as long as they involve white dudes behind the trigger conveniently aren’t.

    It depends on what they’re trying to do. If someone is trying to wax their ex-wife that’s one thing. If someone is shooting up a federal installation to make a political point, that’s a another.

    That said, I agree, if this is a white dude with swastika flags in his house, they won’t be calling it terrorism and demanding they we deport/bomb brown people.

    max
    [‘If this is a brownish attacker, we’ll get the Democrats moving to amp unrelated police powers and Republicans demanding an immediate military attack on someone and they’ll compromise and do both.’]

  58. 58.

    Elizabelle

    Is it too much to hope that someone has gone crazy over sequestration cuts?

    Seeing this is just so not unusual. Happens all the time. Just glad it’s not a schoolful of kids.

    Very sad for the victims and their families.

    And if you can’t be safe in a secure government building — a military compound, for God’s sake — where can you be safe?

  59. 59.

    Ben Grimm

    It’s never the right time to have a debate about gun control. It’s either “too soon,” whatever the hell that means (I suppose we’re supposed to have sympathy for the guns for being used wrong), or there’s no urgency, so “why have the debate now?”

    Admittedly, they happen so often now it’s almost always the first case.

  60. 60.

    Ash Can

    @glocksman: Except that they never almost never are affiliated in any way with any foreign terrorist group, and nearly always are mentally scrambled wackos with an axe to grind and easy access to a firearm to quickly and easily grind it with. When it comes to firearms, this nation has proven that it doesn’t know enough to come in out of the goddamned rain, and this has been the case for a long time before this latest shooting.

  61. 61.

    glocksman

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Sure they do, but if anyone thinks that gun bans would prevent AQ from obtaining weapons from other sources, then you are mistaken.

    My point that everyone seems to be overlooking is that we simply don’t know *how* the shooter(s) got weapons that this point.

    As for background checks, I favor them and have posted here stating as such before.
    Don’t assume I’m an NRA drone simply from my handle here, which dates back to my first AOL username in 1994.

  64. 64.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    If, and I say, if, the shooter(s) are AQ or some other terrorist group, gun laws have fuck all to do with their obtaining weapons.

    @glocksman: Demonstrably wrong. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the shooter is “some terrorist group”. Now, I could make the true argument that every American gun owner is one moment of poor impulse control away from being a terrorist, but that would be way too easy.

    Had the hypothetical “member of some terrorist group” been located in a country that had something that actually resembled legitimate gun control, that person would not have been able to purchase a firearm without a great deal of time and money, and certainly would not under any circumstances have been able to purchase that most holy of American icons, the magazine-fed hi-capacity rifle.

    Here you merely walk into a WalMart, buy a magazine-fed hi-capacity rifle, and walk out. Takes about fifteen minutes. Only a driver’s license needed, and it’s not like the guy behind the counter bothers to check whether it’s yours.

  66. 66.

    glocksman

    @Soonergrunt:

    I *think* she’s saying that it’d be ‘better’ if the motivation was someone who flipped out over losing his job than someone with political motivations.

  67. 67.

    Roger Moore

    @glocksman:

    If, and I say, if, the shooter(s) are AQ or some other terrorist group, gun laws have fuck all to do with their obtaining weapons.

    Except that isn’t true. Gun control laws have everything to do with people who shouldn’t have guns having them, whether those people are mentally ill or if they’re terrorists, and if they bought their guns by taking advantage of deliberately constructed loopholes in our gun laws or on the black market.

  69. 69.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @glocksman:

    Can we at least hold off on the gun control debate until we have some facts about the situation to use?

    Is this taught in the “don’t think of an elephant” school of debate?

    If you don’t want to talk about the “gun control debate”, why are you seemingly working so hard to drive it in this thread?

    Curious.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  70. 70.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Don’t assume I’m an NRA drone simply from my handle here, which dates back to my first AOL username in 1994.

    @glocksman: Don’t assume we’re as stupid as you obviously think we are. You had a choice of usernames when you signed up. Yours screams “NRA-bought and paid for shill”, and that’s how you’re going to get treated.

  71. 71.

    Bobby Thomson

    @glocksman:

    My point that everyone seems to be overlooking is that we simply don’t know *how* the shooter(s) got weapons that this point.

    Because it’s irrelevant. What these incidents demonstrate is what people with the right weapons can do. Regulating the population with access to those weapons is a rational response. Trusting to chance because this time, people didn’t take advantage of loopholes, is playing a game of chance that will put this comment into moderation.

  72. 72.

    dww44

    @Tone in DC: I agree. It is an epidemic. Is there any other first world country where the level of gun violence and mass shootings comes anywhere close to ours? Seriously, would love a link to reliable, impartial data.

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: So true.

    This nation is drenched in the blood of those murdered by firearms from sea to shining sea. And yet this nation’s citizens demand the right for even more to die.

  73. 73.

    Botsplainer

    Lucky for America that AQ was too insular to hire somebody that would tell them how to maximize fear.

  74. 74.

    Bobby Thomson

    @glocksman:

    My point that everyone seems to be overlooking is that we simply don’t know *how* the shooter(s) got weapons that this point.

    Because it’s irrelevant. What these incidents demonstrate is what people with the right weapons can do. Regulating the population with access to those weapons is a rational response. Trusting to chance because this time, people didn’t take advantage of loopholes, is insert metaphor here that will put this comment into moderation.

  75. 75.

    karen

    On WJLA: confirmed 8 people dead.

    The thing I wonder about is that how they got there with a gun. I take Metro Access (transport for disabled) and when we went to the Bethesda Naval Hospital, we went through security, our bags were searched and we had to wear badges before we could go through. My guess is that it’s an inside job. Either the shooter(s) work or worked there so they had the clearance or someone there gave them clearance.

    I’m watching the news in a daze, too much death, just too much death and life is so cheap now.

  78. 78.

    Marc

    @Soonergrunt:

    What the fuck?

    Indeed. The only thing to hope for right now is that police bring down the shooter/s immediately. And preferably take at least one alive so we can find out what the fuck they were thinking and who if anyone they were working with.

  79. 79.

    scav

    @Punchy: Well, that and if bad guys are the ones using the guns, we shouldn’t be having any debate because well, because. If good guys are the ones using, then it’s a tragic accident. In either and all cases, “it’s too soon.”

  80. 80.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Paul in KY: Yes, but if there is any other way than it’s pointless to do anything. That’s why we no longer have to go through metal detectors or take off our shoes on airplanes.

  82. 82.

    Roger Moore

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    This nation is drenched in the blood of those murdered by firearms from sea to shining sea. And yet this nation’s citizens demand the right for even more to die.

    Nonsense. There is a small but vocal and well funded minority demanding the right to ever more guns, but they are not representative. Polling shows that tougher gun laws are incredibly popular with the public at large. It’s one more case in which an industry lobby is very effective at getting its way in spite of strong public opinion the other way.

  83. 83.

    glocksman

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    Do NRA shills argue for universal background checks or tightening of CCW laws in states where the standards are too lax?
    I have done both.

    There’s a saying about what happens when you assume.
    Were you born an ass, or is it something you learned in school?

  84. 84.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    So Glocksman doesn’t support the rush to immediate fact free judgement to Glocksman must HITLER LEVEL EVIL!!!!*

    So anyone want to take the time out to explain to me how instant, emotion based judgement isn’t and shouting down anyone on your side who disagrees isn’t exactly what we all have been mocking the conservatives for over the last few years?

    *Because you know who was also against gun control laws.

  86. 86.

    Cassidy

    @glocksman: What if it’s a terrorist of any sort, (homegrown RWNJ, AQ, whatever) who bought said guns through Armslist? You don’t think gun laws might be relevant?

  87. 87.

    kc

    However this turns out, no gun control measures will be enacted. The only thing that will come on this is another run on guns and ammo by wingnuts.

  91. 91.

    PurpleGirl

    My sympathies to all the victims, their families and friends, and to any BJers who have friends experiencing flashbacks to other incidents.

    As we should remember from the Fort Hood incident, it is not usual for armed forces/government personnel to walk around a government installation with their own arms. So how the person (or persons) get their arms on the naval base? Just asking.

  93. 93.

    Mike in NC

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    Here you merely walk into a WalMart, buy a magazine-fed hi-capacity rifle, and walk out. Takes about fifteen minutes. Only a driver’s license needed, and it’s not like the guy behind the counter bothers to check whether it’s yours.

    Ain’t that the truth. In the Sunday paper I found a WalMart brochure — just like every week — only this one was only for guns and related items. Top of the line weapon was a Colt semi-auto assault type rifle for $1500, but plenty of cheaper stuff was on sale. Must be trying to get people to get an early start on their Christmas shopping.

  95. 95.

    Cassidy

    @PurpleGirl: That’s actually pretty simple. When I owned guns, I would have them out on my seat going on and off base so that the guard could see them. Of course, I had/have a military ID so it was no big deal and they appreciated being told. Going on and off a base, random searches are done. You can put your gun(s) in the trunk and get through the gate and chances are you won’t be searched, if you have an ID. If you’re a contractor or using day passes, you get searched every time, but the quality of the searches vary from day to day, shift to shift, person to person.

    Funny story, I had gone to the range over a weekend and had yet to unload my guns from my wife’s car. She was out running and errands and when coming back on base was stopped for a random search; she did not know I had not removed the guns. Imagine her and the guard’s surprise when she opened the trunk. The phone call I received after that was pretty epic.

  96. 96.

    Elizabelle

    @Soonergrunt:

    Peoples’ lives are affected by the sequester; many feel intense anxiety.

    I wouldn’t mind it if some Congressmaroons got to reflect on the effects of their budget kabuki craziness.

    Apologies if I offended you — that’s not snark, I’m serious — but I’m getting cynical about all these workplace shootings, which brings out more kabuki about “the tragedy, the tragedy.”

    We’re seeing this particular tragedy way too much.

    Elizabelle
    (a military brat who lives in a neighborhood full of military and government employees)

  98. 98.

    glocksman

    @Cassidy:

    Then it would be relevant.
    The larger point I poorly attempted to make was that at this time *we don’t know* who the shooter is and how they obtained the weapons used.

    Discussing an AW ban or other gun laws would useless in terms of this incident if it turned out the weapons came from the Mexican Army via the drug cartels.

    Conversely, it would be appropriate if the weapons came from Armslist or Gary’s Gun Shop in Bethesda.

  100. 100.

    Poopyman

    Sorry to interrupt your useless wanking, but …

    If you’re in the area and are of a mind, how about donating some blood?

  101. 101.

    JPL

    Norah O’Donnell’s twitter feed has not mentioned additional shootings yet though. She has been a pretty good source.

  103. 103.

    Cassidy

    @glocksman: I get what you’re trying to say, but I also think you’re missing that, at this point, odds are our lax gun laws have something to do with this. Maybe it doesn’t; that’s possible. But if I were a betting man…

  104. 104.

    raven

    @Cassidy: And there is a very good chance none of your scenarios have any relevance to this situation. Maybe they made them on post with a 3D copier. Maybe they broke in the arms room. Maybe maybe maybe.

  106. 106.

    Original Lee

    @JPL: If true, they were on base before about 10 AM. Got a phone call about then that all military installations in vicinity (including Bolling and NRL) were in lockdown.

  107. 107.

    Poopyman

    “Shooter appeared to be targeting specific individuals after shooting the guard at the entrance”.

    -WRC, NBC4

    No additional shots or shooters after the shooter was “neutralized”.

  108. 108.

    Ash Can

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: When, for the umpteenth time, a shooting like this takes place, and someone, anyone, says, “Let’s hold off on the gun-control debate until we have all the facts,” don’t be surprised when the reaction from everyone else — who realizes that the “debate” has long since been settled by legal authorities proclaiming that these shootings are the price our nation must pay for the Second Amendment — is heads banging against walls in angry frustration.

  109. 109.

    Cassidy

    @raven: Sure, okay. PurpleGirl was asking how you get weapons on a base. I was explaining that it’s pretty easy. It’s as simple as placing them in your trunk.

  110. 110.

    glocksman

    @Cassidy:

    Odds are they probably do.
    That said, I’d prefer to know before I debate the pros and cons of exactly what laws may be needed in response.

    By the end of the day we’ll probably have an idea of what exactly happened and what was used and how it was obtained.

    That’s the time IMHO to start arguing about what laws may be needed.

  112. 112.

    Tone in DC

    @karen:

    I remember when this was the”murder capital” 20 years ago. There were 300 to 400 homicides annually, for about a decade.

    Something like this happens, and rather than one at a time, someone decides to kick the crazy up a few notches. Makes me want to look around for nearby meteors.

  115. 115.

    Ash Can

    @Elizabelle:

    I wouldn’t mind it if some Congressmaroons got to reflect on the effects of their budget kabuki craziness.

    That’s going too far in light of the fact that there are fatalities. Bloody-minded thinking like this does the anti-sequester argument no favors whatsoever.

  117. 117.

    Nerd

    From Washington Post live blog:

    CNN: Navy says two shooters down

    Update: The Navy tells The Post’s Ernesto Lodono that they are not able to confirm this. They say there are conflicting reports.

    Earlier: CNN is reporting that the Navy has told them that two shooters “are down” following the Navy Yard shooting. We have reached out to the Navy to confirm this report.

  118. 118.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @JPL: I’m reminded of the news guy who apparently misheard a report on 9-11 and caused a brief scare reporting that a plane flying out of Dallas had been reported missing.

    WUSA9 is specifically saying the Boling report is false.

  119. 119.

    Anya

    My heart goes out to the victims and their families and all the families who are worried sick about their loved ones.

  122. 122.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Face:

    NEVER trust the first reports. NEVER. This is the problem with “breaking news”…the scene is chaos, no one knows what is going on, but the dipshits at CNN have to say SOMETHING, so they just spout off whatever fills their empty pretty heads.

    Goes double for that utter airhead Leslie Blitzer.

  124. 124.

    Ruckus

    So fucking Glocksman, when is a good time to talk about gun control? And about how we don’t live in the wild west, a wild west that really only existed in ten cent novels? About how crime, including violent crime(OK not financial industry crime) is way down but death by firearms is not. About how more people die here from firearms than any other industrialized nation or even groups of nations(Europe anyone)? About stories about kids a young as 3 killing with a gun left laying around?
    When is a good time to discuss these issues and at least try to do something about them instead of always screaming about gun rights? When is a human life worth more than a fucking gun?
    The second amendment is just that, it is superseded by my right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. And didn’t have anything to do with private citizens shooting the fuck out of each other.

  128. 128.

    glocksman

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Some of the comments are somewhat useful, as an MSNBC talking head was saying that a lot of the reports of shots fired all over the complex probably came from SWAT teams using breaching rounds on locked doors, and not gunfights.

    Others have stated everything from 3 gunmen to 1 gunman, white male to black or dark skinned male, using either a handgun, shotgun, or AR15, and that he either brought in the heavy weaponry himself or shot a cop and took his shotgun or AR.

    I’m waiting for the report on Fox stating that the Judean People’s Front was responsible.

  130. 130.

    geg6

    @kc:

    This.

    I hate fucking guns. I’d never own one and I have no respect for anyone, other than police or military, who owns one any more. And this, from a woman who grew up in a hunting household and had hunted a few times myself in my youth.

  131. 131.

    Ben Franklin

    @Tone in DC:

    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-27/opinions/36030660_1_crime-rate-trend-in-violent-crime-law-enforcement

    For the District that came through a conscious decision in 2007, when Ms. Lanier was named police chief by then-Mayor Adrian M. Fenty, to invest in technology and to be more analytical and proactive in deploying resources. Consider, for example, how the department focused its efforts on illegal weapons and gangs. That police have had success in combating the retaliatory violence that accompanies gangs is born out by statistics showing a sharp decline in the number of victims under the age of 18 — 20 in 2008 compared to three this year. Prince George’s officials attributed some of their success to an initiative started by County Executive Rushern L. Baker III that targets specific neighborhoods for more law enforcement and community improvements

    .

    Just as there is a debate about illegal vs legal weapons, there is a similar debate about the causes of terrorism. Poverty and a lack of jobs seems to rank high on both for the population as a whole, but there are still the aberrant individuals who skew the numbers.

  133. 133.

    Nerd

    From ABC:

    “A gunman who terrorized the Navy Sea Systems Command headquarters building in Washington, D.C., was shot and killed after carrying out a shooting spree that left four others dead and at least ten injured, according to officials.

    The shooter is described as a former Navy official in his fifties whose work status was recently changed. His name has not been released. “

  134. 134.

    Citizen_X

    @glocksman: Oh hai! A major shooting, and you show up to argue against gun control! What are the odds?

    Oh, and “from the Mexican cartels?” They get a fuckload of their guns from us, so that would be hella relevant too.

  137. 137.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    @Nerd:

    The shooter is described as a former Navy official in his fifties whose work status was recently changed.

    There’s a little good news. It wasn’t a terrorist attack. Just your run of the mill mass shooting by a disaffected American patriot.

  138. 138.

    RP

    Just a burble of the constant accompaniment of the background violence of modern American life.

    These kinds of comments bother me. These shooting are horrific, but modern American life is not particularly violent by historical standards. And violent crime has been decreasing steadily for 20+ years. I get the sense that a lot of people on the left and right think we live in some sort of “Warriors”-like wasteland, and that’s simply absurd.

  139. 139.

    Poopyman

    Police Chief Lannier says 2 other potential shooters: white mail in khakis last seen at 8:35 and 50 yo black male in olive drab carrying a pistol.

  141. 141.

    ericblair

    The police chief is asking people to look out for any other possible shooters, but it seems to be based completely on witness reports so take it with a salt-lick-sized grain of salt.

  142. 142.

    Cassidy

    @RP: No, we’re just resigned to the fact that people will lose their shit and bring 2nd Amendment Freedom to their fellow citizens kill a bunch of innocent people because our laws protect their ability to do that, our politicians are too chickenshit to fight it, and the voting public is too enamored with who’s fucking who, white baby Jesus, and football to give a fuck.

  143. 143.

    Ruckus

    @Citizen_X:
    Yes he shows up here all the time to discuss all the issues of the day…

    Oh wait, no he fucking doesn’t.

    If he isn’t a paid shill he has missed a profit making situation with the NotResponsibleAssholes.

  144. 144.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Citizen_X:

    This. Poster using a gun-fetishist nym that’s never been seen before here, to the best of my knowledge, posting on a thread about a shooting incident.

    AND he’s sounding like a “reasonable” NRA type.

    What are the odds? Why they must be fantastic. Million to one shot.

  146. 146.

    glocksman

    @Citizen_X:

    I’m not arguing either way, dumbass.
    I am saying do the smart thing and wait until you have some facts to argue over.

    A commenter on my local paper’s site said it best.

    You people are hilarious. Nothing is known about the shooter or the weapon that was used and everyone jumps right to their agendas. Anti-gun white guy haters to the radical islomo zealot.
    Hey let me add a twist…maybe it is the first wave of attacks from Canada. They’ve had enough and now are attacking.

    I blame Canada.

  148. 148.

    Poopyman

    Confusion still abounds in SE DC. Citizens are encouraged to stay off the streets. They are confident that any other shooters are still at the Navy Yard. Copters are still flying.

  149. 149.

    glocksman

    @Ruckus:

    Try google and you’ll find that I’ve been commenting on this site for years, and not just on gun issues.

    But by all means, feel free to leap to whatever conclusion you want about me.

    Though if I were a NRA shill dispatched here to head off the BJ gun grab, wouldn’t I use a less conspicuous nick than the one I adopted 20 years ago as a parody?

  151. 151.

    cleek

    @glocksman:

    Nothing is known about the shooter or the weapon that was used

    the weapon was a gun.

    what more is there to know?

    time to reset the NRA-sponsored Mass Shooting Clock ™ !

  152. 152.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    @Ruckus: Glocksman has been commenting on this site for nearly as long as I have. He may be an idiot but he is no new idiot. Ruckus, if you continue to act in a self-destructive manner, I will confront you.

  153. 153.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Poopyman:

    Being cautious, being conservative (in the original sense of the word, not the modern nihilist asshole sense) and cautioning people to take measures to stay as safe as possible given the vast sea of unknown unknowns here.

    What if it turns out that the “other gunmen” are guys living out their “I’ve got a gun, I can be a hero!” fantasies? What then? This just underscores the stupidity of the “armed citizen” scenario…there’s no staff of writers putting out a script that clearly delineates who the good guys and bad guys are.

  154. 154.

    Tone in DC

    @Poopyman:

    No way he can touch Anthony Williams for sheer, oh so telegenic uber-gravitas and bow tie wearing brilliance. No Klingon could.

    And Sharon Pratt-Dixon/Kelly/Jingleheimer Schmidt pretty much does qualify as a Ferengi at this point.

  155. 155.

    karen

    WJLA s now reporting that the shooters are a black male and a white male in olive drab.

    7 schools are on lockdown.

    I don’t know anyone personally there but my stomach is twisting anyway. My heart goes out to all those friends and family who won’t be able to hug their loved ones tonight.

  157. 157.

    MomSense

    @glocksman:

    Actually in some of the AQ videos, they comment on how easy it is to obtain firearms in the States because of our lax gun laws, specifically the gun show and private sale loopholes.

  158. 158.

    Ruckus

    @glocksman:
    Bullshit
    I’ve been on here for a long time and you only show up when there is a gun or shooting issue. Maybe you used to comment on other issues but not in the last few years.
    Your reading comprehension is faulty as well. I pointed out that you only come here to comment on gun issues and someone else said they didn’t recognize your name.
    Your “facts” and bullshit are very tiring and useless.

  167. 167.

    Original Lee

    @Tone in DC: Former Mayor Sharon is certainly short enough to be a Ferengi. I nearly ran her down once at the Foggy Bottom Metro stop because she was standing near the top of the escalator and her petite self was completely hidden from me by the gear everybody ahead of me was carrying.

  170. 170.

    Tone in DC

    @Original Lee:

    I wasn’t thinking of her stature, but thanks for that.

    She was a lousy mayor, but she and her buddies made out like bandits. A bit like Fenty, I suppose.

  172. 172.

    scav

    Long term commenters at least know there’s likely to be pushback when “fiat as I decree it” limitations are placed on whateverthehell is being argued about on the day.

  173. 173.

    Felonius Monk

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    What if it turns out that the “other gunmen” are guys living out their “I’ve got a gun, I can be a hero!” fantasies? What then? This just underscores the stupidity of the “armed citizen” scenario

    Don’t agree. It’s a military base. There are plenty of weapons there. From the description of the “alleged” other shooters, they appear to be in military uniforms. Maybe just two good soldiers doing what they were trained to do — responding to an attack by an unknown force.

    Or, maybe not. But it is a plausible scenario And has nothing to do with a citizen cowboy fantasy.

  176. 176.

    Betty Cracker

    @Poopyman: I’m PISSED that the coverage pivoted away from Obama and back to the shooting. I thought he was on the verge of saying we’ve been focusing on Syria, but maybe we need to pay more attention the thousands of people killed here every goddamned year because the NRA has its clammy little hands on congress’s nuts. Also, I thought his tone was perfect — sad, disgusted and resigned. Pretty much how a Iot of us feel.

  178. 178.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    @srv: They change their names frequently so they don’t ever have to account for their past douchebaggery, unlike those of us who proudly own it.

  179. 179.

    Poopyman

    @Betty Cracker: I’m watching the local DC coverage, so it’s somewhat understandable. Still, it doesn’t surprise me that the nat’l media did the same. You would think the White House would understand that that would be the MSM reaction. If it bleeds, it leads.

    On topic – the Coast Guard has shut down boat traffic on the Anacostia and the Potomac.

  180. 180.

    TS

    @Betty Cracker:

    It was always programmed to be a speech on the economy – but the MSM is a one item wonder that has NO interest in what the President has to say – they prefer to make up their own Syrian News, their own economic news – so of course they don’t listen to his speech.

  181. 181.

    Mnemosyne

    @glocksman:

    Do NRA shills argue for universal background checks or tightening of CCW laws in states where the standards are too lax?

    Yes, because it’s an easy “gimme” when you know your lobbying group is going to be able to block any and all sensible gun laws. It’s like how Nixon was advocating for healthcare reform in the knowledge that he was never actually going to have to follow through.

  185. 185.

    Hal

    Kudos to MSNBC for attempting to combine the navel yard shooting and Syria into one cohesive story? Does the President want to shift focus? Will he regain his footing? What about the economy? Yeesh.

  186. 186.

    Nerd

    CBS reports:

    “The Navy has confirmed that the gunman has died in the incident at the Naval Sea Systems Command building, reports CBS News correspondent David Martin. He is believed to have acted alone.

    Officials told CBS News he was a civilian Navy employee who had job issues earlier this year, and he was also a retired Chief Petty Officer. The suspected shooter had been arrested Friday for public intoxication, and had a history of alcohol-related offenses, reports CBS News correspondent John Miller.

    A law enforcement official told CBS News’ Pat Milton the shooter apparently had a handgun, an AR-15 assault rifle, and a shotgun with him and was wearing dark blue clothing. “

  189. 189.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Felonius Monk:

    Sorry, but the Washington Naval Yard is a logistics facility. People, even military personnel, less the MPs/SPs, do not saunter around armed. Even on an Army post with infantrymen thick as flies, there are no weapons being brandished on a routine basis, Assigned weapons are locked up in arms rooms…and even when you’re carrying them for tactical training reasons, there is no live ammunition issued unless you’re going to the range for qualification training or qualification.

  190. 190.

    IowaOldLady

    From my friend in the area:

    “The story on the dead guy outside my window – as best as I can tell – he was shot in Building 197 and they were rushing him to the hospital in a car and he stopped breathing. They stopped and pulled him out and started CPR on the street. He was the guy on the news with the gunshot wound in the head”

  191. 191.

    Cassidy

    @raven: Not really. Stating the fact that most of this country, and a good portion of the commenters here, only give shit about issues until the weekend and football season doesn’t mean I’m pissed. At this point, to be perfectly honest, I really don’t give much of a shit. If we didn’t change any laws after the massacre of bunch of kids, then we’re simply not going to. The body count will rise, people will be outraged, and then football will come on and no one gives a shit until the next massacre happens. Wash, rinse, repeat. If you don’t like it, I’m not the one to take it up with.

  193. 193.

    Rafer Janders

    @Cassidy:

    Sure, okay. PurpleGirl was asking how you get weapons on a base. I was explaining that it’s pretty easy. It’s as simple as placing them in your trunk.

    Or you can just walk up to the gate with your gun, shoot the guard, and then continue on in.

    Let’s be clear that most security checkpoints are only going to guard against someone trying to smuggle a gun in in secret. They’re going to do fuck-all against someone who shows up already shooting.

  196. 196.

    Cassidy

    @raven: What the fuck is your problem today? You’re the one wanting to talk shit. Drink your fucking prune juice and take a nap.

  198. 198.

    Mnemosyne

    @Ben Franklin:

    Some kind of alcohol-control must be enacted.

    Yes, if only we had some kind of laws to prevent people under the influence of alcohol from harming others, like drunk driving laws or public intoxication laws. But, of course, having those kinds of laws would infringe on the freedom of citizens to have six shots and get behind the wheel of a car to endanger others, so we certainly can’t do anything to try and prevent drinkers from harming others.

  202. 202.

    Ben Franklin

    @Mnemosyne:

    Just band-aids to slow consumptive habits. I suggest going a little further than vehicle code. 18-packs should be illegal. Who needs that many Silver Bullets?

  204. 204.

    glocksman

    @Mnemosyne:

    You know, the funny thing is that at one time I was an NRA member who believed that any and all gun laws were the work of Satan.
    Of course, I also was a true-blue conservative Republican with all of the douchebaggery that implies.

    Both things have changed over the years.

    Nowadays on the gun forums I get called a ‘liberal gun grabber’ at best by the TP tools when I say I have no problem with UBC’s, and an NRA shill here for stating the same thing.

    Irony, it’s not just for lunch.

  205. 205.

    scav

    Hey, if a drunk angry white guy can do it (and on a military base), then clearly regulations don’t work. (Trash any regs on DWI and rape too, right?) This is going to be the circus we’ve visited all too often before.

  206. 206.

    Ruckus

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    This.
    Even back in the 70’s on a major navy base only the gate guards and the quarterdeck and security watches of the ships carried side arms. I was assigned to SP for a while and the most I carried was a nightstick. Even the marine master sergeant who was the highest ranked enlisted man in the SP and who I rode with only carried a nightstick.

  207. 207.

    sharl

    @Villago Delenda Est: Yep; I’ve worked in that building. The primary organization there, NAVSEA (Naval Sea Systems Command), is a core activity in the Navy bureaucracy. It’s mostly civilians there, though there are plenty of officers as well (regarding the latter, I’d reckon O-4 through O-8 mostly).

    W197 is basically an office building, and its security is better than the average DC office building, but IMO doesn’t differ by much. The guard-controlled access to the grounds of Washington Navy Yard offers added protection, but if you look like you belong there and – most importantly – have the right access badge(s), you can get to that building with little difficulty.

    I’m real curious now as to whether the early reports on the shooters are true, i.e., that they work(ed) there and recently received word of changed work assignments. Things are a bit stressful in the building even in good times IMO, but recent and probably future sequestration budget cuts will make it more so. And ever since seeing this news, I’ve been expecting things to get rather more tense and grim in that building – when you cut senior flag officer positions, that has a big impact down the chain and will likely wipe out entire lower-level commands/activities. And in the course of that, wherever redundant positions are perceived, “extra” positions will be eliminated, and those “extra” people are going to have to go… somewhere.

    The cutbacks are needed, but it won’t be pretty (never is). I sure wasn’t expecting this, though maybe I should have!

  208. 208.

    Heliopause

    I see we’re at the “nothing new has happened for hours but everybody’s going to keep talking anyway” phase. How about a Colorado flooding thread? Fatalities, thousands displaced, hundreds or thousands of homes damaged or destroyed, billions in property losses. Granted, it’s happening outside of New York or DC, but maybe just for a change of pace?

  209. 209.

    Mnemosyne

    @Ben Franklin:

    You seem to be missing the objection that people have to guns, which is that they injure people other than the guy holding the gun. You know, innocent bystanders, co-workers, soon-to-be-ex-wives, that kind of thing. If gun owners only killed themselves and not kids down the street or their own kids, it would be much less of a public issue.

    If someone wants to drink themselves to death, that’s a shame and they should have access to help, but it’s not the same thing as though that person got behind the wheel of his/her car while drunk and drove through a crowd on a sidewalk. That’s why it’s illegal to drive drunk and kill people with your car, but it’s not illegal to drink yourself to death in the privacy of your own home.

    ETA: Though I do find it fascinating that you think gun ownership is a “compulsive habit” like alcoholism. Can we get support groups for people trying to give up their guns? Shooters Anonymous?

  210. 210.

    scav

    @Heliopause: You somehow fail to notice the two additional later threads? One’s medical but the other’s open. Have at it. Or does this comment have more to do with demoting the importance of this event as dull dull dull and only to be expected? Not getting it.

  211. 211.

    Rafer Janders

    @Ben Franklin:

    Some kind of alcohol-control must be enacted. 2.5 million die from related causes.

    You’re aware, of course, that the problem with guns is not that you can harm yourself, but that you can very very quickly and easily and irreversibly kill lots of other people. The next time someone walks into a school and murders 20 children and six adults in a few minutes by using only a six-pack of Bud, please let me know.

  213. 213.

    Belafon

    @Ben Franklin: Actually, I’m thinking more along the line of a ban on births since the rate of death from those is 100%.

    As for alcohol, we have controls on those, and penalties if people are not responsible with them, even if they don’t hurt anyone else. But of course you already knew that.

  214. 214.

    LAC

    @Heliopause: Well, it is still an ongoing story and we are still in a lockdown, but your douchecanoe whinging is duly noted. Sorry our situation is bothering you…

  215. 215.

    LAC

    @Heliopause: Well, it is still an ongoing story and we are still in a lockdown, but your douchecanoe whinging is duly noted. Sorry our situation is bothering you…

  216. 216.

    sharl

    @carolus:

    I think your description of security at WNY is somewhat dated.

    Entirely possible; it’s been a few years.

    Glad to hear from everyone in that area who is doing all right (considering…). Best wishes, and keep your head down!

    Jeebus, I just heard the death toll is now up to twelve. Damn.

  218. 218.

    Heliopause

    @scav: @LAC:

    My goodness, all these knickers in a twist. You two might want to step into the nearest water closet and make some slight adjustments.

  220. 220.

    Renie

    saw on tv Reid is recessing the Senate because of the shooting. can someone explain what one has to do with the other?

  221. 221.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    Gunman got in using someone else’s ID.

    How do you get into a secured facility with a former employee’s ID?

  222. 222.

    LAC

    @Heliopause: You might want to go stick your head in a cool dark place… like your ass. Remind me not to care next time anything happens in your town of bumfuckland.

  224. 224.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @Renie: It might have something to do with most of the law enforcement in DC being around the Navy Yard (rather than at their usual posts). And with streets blocked off in many places. And other government facilities being on lock-down.

    It’s hard to have a normal work day when such things are going on.

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  226. 226.

    MikeJ

    I just read that the gunmen were eating fried green tomatoes.

    Look like this was a Fannie Flagg operation.

  229. 229.

    lou

    @Punchy: The airport is not far over open water from the Navy Yard. Planes fly at low altitudes over the Potomac right there. I can see a serious weapon taking out a landing plane or a plane taking off. It was a good idea to be cautious.

  231. 231.

    Mnemosyne

    @lou:

    Some people were saying it was shutdown so helicopters would have easier access to the location and not interfere with airline traffic. It was only for about 15 minutes, according to the NYT.

  232. 232.

    Soonergrunt

    34 y.o. Aaron Alexis, civilian contractor from Fort Worth, TX is the name that MSNBC just gave as the suspected shooter. He is dead.
    It seems that the other person or persons supposedly seen on surveillance systems were LEO of some agency that have yet to be identified.

  233. 233.

    Soonergrunt

    @Mnemosyne: There was a ground-hold at National Airport so that the medevac and law enforcement aircraft would have clear airspace in which to maneuver.

  235. 235.

    Mnemosyne

    @Soonergrunt:

    And yet we’re still going to have to hear people shriek about GOVERNMENT TYRANNY and LAW ENFORCEMENT OVERREACTION because the legend will already have started spreading that it was shut down (for 15 whole minutes!) over fear of terrorism, not for logistical reasons.

  236. 236.

    max

    @Soonergrunt: 34 y.o. Aaron Alexis, civilian contractor from Fort Worth, TX is the name that MSNBC just gave as the suspected shooter. He is dead.

    Sounded mil or ex-mil. So that’s the guy who went down.

    It seems that the other person or persons supposedly seen on surveillance systems were LEO of some agency that have yet to be identified.

    DC Police earlier:Navy Yd Suspects B/M 50 yrs, w/rifle, drab olive military uniform; S2 W/M pistol, Navy-style khaki uniform, short slv,beret call 7279099

    DC Police later: The white male in the tan outfit has been identified and is not a suspect or person of interest.

    So maybe one other guy.

    Next time for TV is 4 PM EST.

    max
    [‘Ft. Worth, contractor, hrmmm. Militia-type or revenge?’]

  237. 237.

    Corner Stone

    @Cygil:

    Brown people terrorize. White people simply “go postal.”

    Are you insinuating lojasmo had something to do with this event?

  238. 238.

    drkrick

    @Ben Franklin:

    Just band-aids to slow consumptive habits. I suggest going a little further than vehicle code. 18-packs should be illegal. Who needs that many Silver Bullets?

    I thought we were talking about beer.

  239. 239.

    nemesis

    So three shooters becomes one shooter and Alex Jones says “Thank you” for serving him up another ready made ” its a black bag job”. Its starts in 3…2…1…

  241. 241.

    johnny aquitard

    @glocksman: Because you are repeating the NRA. Almost verbatim. Because insisting it’s too early to have a debate on gun control is exactly the NRA strategy for dealing with these mass shootings.

    And the argument that AQ will obtain their weapons anyways is also the NRA argument against gun control — just replace ‘AQ’ with ‘criminals’ — and that’s exactly their main argument against gun control: because gun laws are useless against lawbreakers, who will get guns anyways. “Outlaw guns and only the outlaws will have guns”.

    And it’s bullshit, both points. The NRA doesn’t think laws against robbery, rape and assault are useless. It doesn’t lobby to prevent, limit or repeal those. Only when it comes to guns, funny that.

    And It’s way past time for a gun control debate. It’s been past time since Columbine in 1999, it’s been past time since Sandy Hook and it’s been past time in all the shootings in the years in between.

    Serious question: How much longer before you think it’s time to have a debate on gun control?

  242. 242.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Soonergrunt: Except that the supposedly dropped ID belonged to someone who wasn’t in the building, according to the report I heard. Which was just adding to the head scratching.

    BTW, my question about security and former employees’ IDs was supposed to be a huge fucking salt lick to accompany the report. {treebeard} Hmm, that doesn’t make much sense to me. {/treebeard}

  243. 243.

    Ruckus

    @johnny aquitard:
    One of the ways you know he is who we think he is. He never answers this question.
    It’s always too early, and so never the right time to have any debate or discussion.
    And so we end up having this discussion, over and over. Derail, any time there may be any discussion, however slight. That’s his job and now he is done. Once again we will fight him not the issue. And we buy into it every time.

  244. 244.

    sharl

    From NAVSEA twitter account within the last five minutes:

    UPDATE: All NAVSEA employees still on lockdown. Will give an update ASAP when there is a change to this status.

    ~

    Mark Vandroff ‏@goatmaster89

    twitter friends – I am ok – dont know how much longer will be here at WNY, All the DDG 51 program office folks made it out of bldg 197 ok

    That last guy is a Captain who manages the office he mentioned.

  245. 245.

    Vayama

    Once again, it’s too soon to discuss gun control.

    The sick part about this is that you know – you know – that there is a certain contingent of our society who is only bothered by these events because it means they have to defend their stance on firearm availability. And we have welcomed that attitude into the debate as not only a perfectly valid one, but in fact the default position.

    We’ve pretty much normalized sociopaths.

  246. 246.

    Skippy-san

    @Elizabelle: I understood completely your comment. This is a real tragedy-but in the end while the government will praise the government employees today as heroes, its also a true fact that in 4 weeks, Congress will vote to screw them. Again.

    That does not mean you ignore the tragedy of today. You simply despair of anything ever changing.

  250. 250.

    joes527

    @ranchandsyrup: You need to tell your gun nut relatives is too soon to discuss the racial implications of what happened this morning. We need to wait for some facts before we use this incident to argue either for or against the 14th amendment.

  252. 252.

    TAPX486

    @johnny aquitard: If the reports are correct, that there were a number of people, civilian and military with sidearms, then the NRA line that the way to stop is bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun, doesn’t hold much water. Not that it ever did

  253. 253.

    sharl

    Twitter hashtag #NavyYardShooting is pretty active right now with latest news updates, along with a fine selection of opinions and commentary – on the latter, if you haven’t come across something that will piss you off, just keep reading!

    Given the proximity of Nationals Stadium to WNY, this is understandable:

    Nationals PR ‏@NationalsPR

    Tonite’s #Nationals-Braves game has been postponed and will be made up as split doubleheader (1:05 p/7:05p) on Tue., Sept. 17.

    And a short news video (92sec) from official DOD press; more of an anecdote, one of what will be many before this is all over.

  254. 254.

    max

    Startlegram:

    FORT WORTH — The man suspected of killing 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard, identified as Aaron Alexis of Fort Worth, left the Navy in 2011. Alexis, 34, was found dead at the site of the Monday morning shooting in Washington. Police say they do not have a motive for the shootings.
    Nutpisit Suthamtewakul, owner of Happy Bowl Thai in White Settlement, said Alexis was “my best friend.” “He lived with me three years,” Suthamtewakul said Monday afternoon. “I don’t think he’d do this. He has a gun but I don’t think he’s that stupid. He didn’t seem aggressive to me.”
    […]
    Alexis had previously been in the Navy from 2007 to 2011 and was most recently stationed at Naval Air Station Fort Worth, according to Lt. Cmdr. Sarah Blansett, a Navy spokeswoman. Friends said he left the Navy because he didn’t like to get up early.
    […]
    Records show that Alexis was arrested in September 2010 for discharging a firearm within a municipality. According to a Fort Worth police report, police had been dispatched to the Oak Hills apartments about 6:40 p.m. Sept 4, 2010, on a report that someone had fired a shot through the floor and into the ceiling of a woman’s apartment.
    Fearing someone could be hurt, police had called the fire department to the scene to attempt to force entry into the man’s apartment. When firefighters arrived on the scene, however, Alexis came outside voluntarily and told officers he had been cleaning his gun when it went off.
    “He said that he was trying to clean his gun while cooking and that his hands were slippery. He told me that he began to take the gun apart when his hands slipped and pulled the trigger, discharging a round into the ceiling,” the report states.
    […]
    “I can’t believe he would do anything like this,” Srisan said. “He always behaved well around me.”
    A friend said Alexis loved Buddhism. “He loved to go to temple, go to meditate in Thai and English,” the friend said. “He could do both of them.”

    Well, that’s weird.

    max
    [‘Insanely vengeful or vengefully insane? Just hated the noodles in DC? Still pissed about missed sack time? Dunno.’]

  255. 255.

    jon

    Are we better off having contractors do our military and intelligence work? If we can’t talk about guns, maybe a discussion on the use of non-union, non-pensioned, non-loyal mercenary types doing such work is a discussion worth having.

    Glenn Greenwald might not get as many interesting sources, but I’d be a bit less scared of security lapses if people had more to lose than a contract job if they get tempted with offers to reveal things our government would rather not reveal. Whether or not we want a huge secrets agency or twelve, the least we can have is actual government employees being in charge of it.

    Yeah, yeah, too soon. But maybe Jobs is a good counter when told Guns cannot be discussed at this tragic moment for our nation.

  256. 256.

    fuckwit

    @max: Huh. Well that was my first guess, being that this was in a Navy Yard: a veteran. Looks like he may have spent his whole stint at a desk, so maybe it wasn’t PTSD. Maybe he was just a sociopath. There may be lots of issues here. And yes, no matter what his story, at least part of the answer is that we need to fix our gun laws.

  257. 257.

    sharl

    20-page scrollable slideshow here, that includes a couple decent aerial/satellite maps of area, for those curious about relative location of things.

    There are reports that, while the gunman most recently came from Texas, he originally hails from Brooklyn. If true – or even if not – I’m sure the Jim Hoft-types will make something of him coming(?) from the lieberal NYC.

  258. 258.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @sharl: I’ve only been to the Navy Yard twice, but what amazed me about the place is how compact it is. It was set up in 1799 and it shows – tiny streets, buildings almost on top of each other. Parking was almost impossible to find when I went there. If you didn’t have an assigned spot, it was nearly hopeless to make an appointment on time if you didn’t get to the garage before 7:30 AM.

    Shelter in place was the only option today – there is no way people could rush out and run to their cars and hope to do anything but sit in traffic.

    I remember that when I was in high school I had a bad Monday the 16th after a Friday the 13th. While I wasn’t directly affected (other than being locked out of work elsewhere in DC) this seems to be another one. :-(

    A truly terrible day.

    It could have been far worse though… :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  259. 259.

    sharl

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Pretty good description I think. Too lazy to fact-check myself, but IIRC that place was an active Navy shipyard until around WWI, when ships became too big and deep-running to be able to use the Potomac River for navigation.

    And yeah, the parking remains awful as far as I know. Back when I worked down there, I usually just parked outside the gate and walked in.

    There are some cool aspects of the WNY though, especially where they saved some of the hardware from the old days, and kept some of the shipyard infrastructure intact inside of buildings that got converted to office/cube farms. And I still haven’t seen the Museum there, which I’ve heard good things about. Despite its good points, I’m glad I don’t have to commute down there anymore.

  260. 260.

    Elizabelle

    @raven:

    @Skippy-san:

    Thank you for your kind comments. And Skippy-san said it better than I did.

    @Poopyman: Did donate blood, at a local Inova hospital center. They did not have many extra donors today.

    Thought of you while sipping my orange juice and eating my Lorna Doones and Fig Newtons. (Could fingerpainting, then naptime be next?)

  261. 261.

    sharl

    Navy tweet says people are being allowed to leave the locked-down area, after being interviewed by FBI. That’s gotta be a slow process, but at least they’re letting folks go.

    And from WaPo:

    The deceased shooter worked for a subcontractor of technology giant Hewlett-Packard, the company confirmed Monday evening to The Post’s Marjorie Censer.

    Michael Thacker, director of corporate media relations for Hewlett-Packard, issued the following statement:

    “We are deeply saddened by today’s tragic events at the Washington Navy Yard. Our thoughts and sympathies are with all those who have been affected. Aaron Alexis was an employee of a company called ‘The Experts,’ a subcontractor to an HP Enterprise Services contract to refresh equipment used on the Navy Marine Corps Intranet (NMCI) network. HP is cooperating fully with law enforcement as requested.”

Comments are closed.