“It’s hard to know (what could have prevented it),” Gray said on CNN. “We’re continuing this investigation. But certainly, as I look at for example sequestration, which is about saving money in the federal government being spent, that we somehow skimped on what would be available for projects like this, and then we put people at risk. Obviously 12 people have paid the ultimate price for whatever — you know, whatever was done to have this man on the base.”
If the sequester had been Obama’s plan, then Darrell Issa would be convening Benghazi-style hearings trying to pin this shooting on stupid across-the-board budget cuts. Since it was the House Republican Caucus’ plan, Gray is a bad American questioning the patriotism of our brave heroes for even mentioning it.
And, while we’re discussing things Issa won’t investigate, here’s another: how the owner of the contracting firm that hired the shooter got so damn rich.
Update: Now the owner of the contracting company, Thomas Hoshko, is blaming the sequester:
Hoshko said he and other contracting firms rely on the military to approve the security clearances of their employees, and fears that budget crunches have led to faster and less thorough checks.
“None of this was made aware to us or to the company,” he said. “If there’s not full disclosure on this, how do they expect us to make good decisions about who to trust and hire.”
Of course, he can’t be trusted because he leases his yacht. Only yacht owners, not yacht moochers and looters, have a right to opine on the sequester.
schrodinger's cat
This is what happens when you treat human beings like widgets, a line in your balance sheet, to be cut to reduce costs.
MattF
It’s called ‘follow the money’ and it’s patently unpatriotic, not to mention class warfare, violation of religious freedom, and racism.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
You don’t fuck with America’s gun owners or they will jack you up and good.
Another Botsplainer
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: Yes, we have evidence of this just last week in Colorado. Sorry to say but I’m sure more than a few Democrats have taken notice.
The Moar You Know
Huh. I work for a small contractor and the owners aren’t even the highest paid people in the business. Something hinky right below the surface there, true small defense contractors don’t live like that.
joes527
@schrodinger’s cat: I know it doesn’t fit your narrative, but it sounds like the dude’s problems went deeper than that.
Gin & Tonic
That TPM story fails to present evidence about that Hoshko guy bing “so damn rich.” While I doubt he’s on food stamps, he leased that yacht in the pictures. I guarantee you that since he had clients on board for the party, that was a business expense. But no way he’s got the scratch to *buy* (and operate) a 110-foot yacht. There are lots of people who kind of float along on the trappings of wealth, renting or leasing pretty much anything and everything to live large, but do not have the net worth to support that, so when the income stream dries up, they end up with zip. I’ll bet that’s him.
schrodinger's cat
@joes527: What is my narrative, pray tell? I have not said that anywhere that the sequester caused all of this guy’s problems. I was making a general statement about cost cutting in businesses and the government.
kc
Look! Over there! Someone is using food stamps to buy potato chips!
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@kc: Look! Over there! Someone is using agriculture subsidies to buy a congressman!
mistermix
@Gin & Tonic: Maybe, but he’s been chartering yachts for 12 years so it’s been a pretty good run.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@Another Botsplainer: Those two Colorado politicians are just lucky they didn’t get shot up real good.
maya
Wouldn’t the real question be; how did Alexis get so much firepower into a military base, in DC, no less, in the first place? Terrific security system. Best $$$ can buy, I’m sure.
The Red Pen
One of the trends in Federal Contracting is “Small-Business Set-Asides” where the “big guys” like Ratheon et al are put behind much smaller contractors. I think the point is to spread the love around a little better, but I wonder if it ends up enabling people like Hoshko.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@maya:
I’m going to volunteer to stand outside my local military base with my Taurus 9 mil.
WereBear
Remember, the only important human suffering is from people who are forced to lease their yachts and jets instead of owning them.
Bobby Thomson
Pro tip: when you’re trying to make a policy critique based on aggressive arguments about causation, good idea to at least have down what it is that comes at the end of the causal chain.
The sequester sucks. The NRA sucks. Mayor Gray (who vetoed minimum wages at the behest of Wal-Mart) and his argument also suck.
boatboy_srq
@Gin & Tonic: Agreed. The TPM entry is sensationalism, with a dash of innuendo for good measure: no discussion of what the company is worth, no discussion of the value of the contracts, nothing about ownership/shareholders. Just some “geez this guy is rich enough to lease a yacht for a week.” $44K isn’t chump change, but if he’d bought the thing instead of just spending a week on it then there might be a there there. Milk Money isn’t Duke-Stir.
MattF
@maya: In fact, military bases will have some areas that are closely guarded, but otherwise, they’re not so hard to get into.
Gin & Tonic
@boatboy_srq: Not even “this guy is rich enough”, just “his business has enough cash flow that he can expense this $44k.” I’m not defending the guy, but there’s not enough evidence to tar him, either.
Tommy
@MattF: The base by me I can’t get on it. I noted this the other day here and a few folks said things were different by them. I take them at their word. I know the Navy Yard well, used to live a few blocks from it, and it is a “different” place. SE DC is different now. Kind of a hip place to live. When I lived there it wasn’t so hip (early, mid 90s). It was kind of a “safe” zone.
maya
@MattF: Well, gee then, our smartphones and email are more closely watched then military installations dealing directly with National Security and that’s the way it always is, you say. Sorry I asked.
Mike E
@schrodinger’s cat: Gawd, did I ever think it though when this went down. If you “reform” MIC spending, the freak-outs get worse/more numerous from here on in.
Keith G
The mayor sounds like those ‘ijits’ who were tying the Columbine killings to black trenchcoats.
Can we please find smarter leaders?
The Moar You Know
@The Red Pen: Raytheon just comes in six months after the fact and hires all the employees of the small contractor, rendering them unable to fulfill the contractual requirements. Raytheon then takes the work. The “Small Business Set Asides” are one of the biggest scams out there, to fool the rubes and suckers that somehow Big Money isn’t running the entire show. Rest assured they are.
JPL
@WereBear: Since the yacht was used for business, it’s probably a write-off.
The only thing I know about taxes though is what Turbo Tax me. Maybe a CPA can weigh in.
Mike E
@MattF: Plus, this guy had the mindset, was canny enough to do some real damage. Pete Williams on TRMS said he used a shotgun he bought to gain an AR-15 from the guard and a semiauto pistol from a cop. Add those 3 weapons up and you got a real tragedy on your hands. maya is being too balloon-juicy by half here. It’s precisely this kind of attack that you really have to be kind of lucky to prevent, since diligence clearly wasn’t enough.
boatboy_srq
But private personal security would have solved this, so anyone walking around DC without an assault rifle and three guys in suits and sunglasses with concealed weapons of their own isn’t serious about his/her own protection, so s/he deserve what s/he gets.
/snark
I sometimes wonder whether Teh Austerity isn’t about saving taxes by starving Big Gubmint, but rather about thinning out Teh Other Peeps so there’s more Freedumb™ for the Good Righteous Upstanding Hetero Xtian Real Patriotic Ahmurrcans™, and 2nd-Amendment-Shouting is just an enabling mechanism.
Cheap Jim
@boatboy_srq: @boatboy_srq: The real story is that there are folks making a comfortable living off contracts, which they have won by developing relationships with the right people. Any attempt to limit the growth or even shrink the number of important things done by contractors would meet with resistance not just from the contractors themselves, but from the apparatchiks with whom they have these relationships. Which makes it a harder thing to change.
Seanly
While I think the sequester (and our way-too-low taxes) are terrible, I can’t see them as playing a role in this shooter’s horrible act.
Tommy
@Keith G: I am about to fire up my PS3 and kill some folks just cause, well cause I can. As terrible as this is I know the process. Soon folks will blame video games. WTF. I like puzzle and sports game more than FPS, but gosh this shit pisses me off. I’ve been playing video games since the 80s and never think to myself I want to go kill actual people. It is a fucking game!
boatboy_srq
@Gin & Tonic: When your competition for public sector contracts includes folk like Ellison, who can fly clients out to SFO on corporate jets to cruise Baja for a week on monsters like Ronin, you do what you can. It may even be that his business couldn’t afford the lease and cruise, but couldn’t afford to be “cheap” with the client base. In that case, though, it says even more about the new Leechure Class, and about the average Congresscritter, than it does about either him or his business. Also note that the crew were pleasantly surprised by how easy to please he and his wife were: there’s some serious undertone there about what pr!cks Milk Money‘s other clients are.
SatanicPanic
@Mike E:
So you’re saying we’re clever!
max
@Mike E: It’s precisely this kind of attack that you really have to be kind of lucky to prevent, since diligence clearly wasn’t enough.
Regardless of contractors and gun laws, there is always going to be a potential vulnerability involving military/police installations and their arsenals. If you can get in and get a weapon and some ammo, you can start shooting. (‘Why do you rob banks?’ ‘Because that’s where the money is.’)
Separately from that, we started that whole privatize the federal government thing back in the 90’s and so far, I see no evidence that that’s anything but a money funnel for the politically connected, charging twice as much for half as much work. (Competition can only reduce costs if government entities in a given market don’t constitute the entirety of that market.)
max
[‘Going to be one of those days.’]
dmsilev
Today’s bit of hilarity. The below quote, portraying right-wing extreme conservatives as Japanese kamikaze pilots obviously comes from a Liberal Media Bias source, right?
Nope, that’s the Wall Street Journal editorial page attempting to talk the right-wing nutjobs off the ledge. When you’re too extreme for the Journal editorial board…
Violet
@Another Botsplainer: The NRA gets those Colorado politicians recalled and two days later Noah-level floods are unleashed on Colorado. Hmm….
maya
@Mike E: It becomes painfully clear that the only real obvious defense, then, is the NRA’s position – arm everyone. Either that or there’s nothing that can be done, ever, so move along to the next ‘mass shooting’ (a term that needs to be redefined into numerical/ metric categories?)
The Dangerman
If it was the sequester, it’ll never be investigated fully; the Republicans could give a shit about 12 lives if it impacts having to raise taxes.
Southern Beale
Yes let’s blame the sequester. Certainly not the guns. No, never that.
I have an annoying Libertarian over at my place, if anyone wants to join in the fun.
boatboy_srq
@Cheap Jim: One big part of that that’s missing, though, is that the charter was booked out of SoFL: owning a boat in FL is expensive, but the rates there are (to put it mildly) competitive with other locales (probably half, for example, what the same would be out of San Diego), and as a “cost of doing business” it’s a lot lower than having the company’s own boat to entertain clients on. The Experts may be working for the federal sector, but their customer isn’t the government – it’s HP. HP’s customer is the government. So the folks who got entertained would be Silicon Valley bigwigs more likely than DoD decision-makers.
The TPM story is “How To Shmooze” 102. It may not be pretty, but it’s how things get done in business. If we were really discussing the obscenity that is private contracting, then the story would have been how The Experts was able to buy Milk Money and use her to entertain clients year-round, along with the boxes at Nationals Park and FedEx Field and the standing reservation at Komi. 44K is a lot only when you don’t compare it to a midsize contractor’s total marketing budget.
Southern Beale
My comment has been held for moderation. And I didn’t use any embargoed words, too.
The Ancient Randonneur
Something tells me that Mr. Hosko was for the sequester before he was against it.
bcinaz
I must have missed the press conference when congressional gun nuts congratulated the Senate for filibustering Background Checks and celebrating the Navy Yard killer’s 2nd Amendment Rights. Did any of you see Rand Paul taking the lead on this?
Tommy
@Violet: I live in a very pro-gun area. Nobody I know is against background checks or basic gun education. I mean my friends won’t take me hunting cause they know I am clueless about guns and how to use them.
The Dangerman
@Mike E:
Something’s hinky there; another report is he bought the AR-15 in Virginia…
…and seems to me a guard at a military base would be carrying an M16, not an AR-15.
chopper
that’s the way i think about it as well.
Gin & Tonic
@Cheap Jim: The real story is that there are folks making a comfortable living off contracts, which they have won by developing relationships with the right people.
Welcome to the History of Business 101, kids.
cleek
@maya:
we need a scale, like they have for hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes and all the other completely unpreventable natural disasters. i say we call it the “NaRA” scale:
Cat 1 : 3-5 innocents killed by gun in a single incident
Cat 2 : 6 – 10
Cat 3 : 11 – 20
Cat 4 : 21 – 30
Cat 5 : 31+
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Bobby Thomson:
This bears repeating.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@maya: He didn’t get the firepower onto the base. He got a shotgun onto the base, killed a security guard, and took the rest of his firepower from the guard.
boatboy_srq
@Tommy: There’s a difference between describing basic gun control legislation in technical terms (background checks, cooling off periods, etc etc) which is acceptable to nearly everyone, and talking about Gun Control (which is some Kenyan IslamoFascoSoshulist plot to disarm Ahmurrca so the UN can come in and cart all Patriots off to FEMA camps to be reeducated into Entitlement-loving Treehuggers or recycled into Soylent Green).
boatboy_srq
If the TPM article is at all correct, he actually chartered it for a week. I can’t help but ask why we’re making such a to-do over a business that is doing what Larry Ellison does, but at 1/1000 the cost.
Tommy
@boatboy_srq: I am a far left liberal. I could care less if you own a gun. Heck you could buy a tank for all I care. I just ask you complete a basic course.
schrodinger's cat
My thoughts on the fifth anniversary of the financial crisis. I am interested in what BJ commenters think, so if you like please leave a comment. Thanks.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
I can’t help but find myself with increasingly listless pessimism at this shit, especially knowing the eventual endgame of ‘NRA wins again and rules our world’ per usual.
raven
@schrodinger’s cat: I think Obama needed to wait a day to make his “remarks”.
? Martin
@Tommy: The shooter in DC completed a course. He’s a vet.
Violet
@Tommy: Would it bother you if your neighbors owned nuclear weapons? What if they completed a basic course on nuclear weapon safety?
I don’t see why we can’t all own nuclear weapons. The government is violating our second amendment rights by not allowing us to have our own personal nuclear weapons.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Tommy:
That’s the thing. I am personally shit afraid of guns in general, but as a matter of policy, I just want to see even MILD improvements. Better background checks, actual enforcement power out of the ATF rather than the ineffectual shell its been turned into, limited magazines, etc. Even that ends up treated as the grandest and highest of treason and Anti-Americanism and has made me a pariah amongst several people I used to call peers. I’ve seen reasonably liberal people haul off and vote straight GOP line off this shit because Guns are the only Freedom that matters apparently.
SatanicPanic
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: I think we’re stuck with this for the near future, but long-term gun ownership is trending down and will continue to do so, that’s why they’re so freaked out. We’re closer to a tipping point than we appear to be.
schrodinger's cat
@raven: Obama’s gift of gab seems to desert him whenever he talks about the economy, have you noticed?
ETA: I saw five minutes of the speech, he looked bored and so did the people behind him.
Southern Beale
Personally I blame Texas. Wasn’t the shooter from Texas? They’re all wackjobs in Texas. Can we please please please blame Texas?
fuckwit
Why is the world filled with such fucking stupid people?
And why does my country put them in charge of shit, in such disproportionate numbers?
boatboy_srq
@Tommy: Understood.
But the NRA-heads will read that and hear “GUN CONTROL! OH NOES! HE’S RESTRICTING OUR FREEDUMB!!!!11!1!™” because they’re programmed to.
I wasn’t criticizing your comment – just pointing out how easy it is for the NRA to turn any and all common-sense legislation that most gun-owners, NRA rank and file, and even folks like us would agree on, into some Grand Conspiracy to make Ahmurrca a Gawdless Gunless Soshulist Utopia.
Dollars to doughnuts nobody you know would support background checks or gun education if it were the sum total of a Gun Control proposal.
boatboy_srq
@fuckwit: Washington DC hires them (at comparatively obscene pay rates, BTW). And enough Congresscritters get too used to seeing the same low level of competency so well rewarded they forget what it’s like for their own constituents.
The Red Pen
@The Ancient Randonneur:
The sequester didn’t affect government contractors, only direct government employees.
Poopyman
@boatboy_srq:
“We” aren’t. Ask Josh Marshall, and mistermix for linking it. Seems like Mr. Hosko is doing business like the Big Boys would, but rather frugally.
@The Moar You Know:
Fixed to reflect the small contractors I’ve known. It’s tough going up against the bigger competition.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@raven: If the appearance was already scheduled, then a few quickly-written “appropriate noises” added to the original plan is as good a way of dealing with having your speech run over by events as any other.
He’d have been equally criticized for cancelling, you know.
Poopyman
@Violet: Hell, I’d just be happy with hand grenades. Fucking groundhogs in my garden ….
OK, hand grenades and satchel charges.
Kim
@maya:
It’s simple. They don’t normally check bags or cars coming on the yard. Only CACs. And when they do security exercises and check bags it only creates a long line at the gate which is a security concern in and of itself.
raven
@schrodinger’s cat: I think he was shaken by the shootings, the shit was still up in the air and some dumbass(es) decided it was a good idea to go ahead anyway. G
Poopyman
@fuckwit: Well, we dodged Larry Summers, so there’s at least that.
raven
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: I don’t give a shit, it was dumb.
MomSense
@cleek:
Maybe we could re-purpose the terror warning traffic lights for this.
Cat 1 Low: 3-5 innocents killed by gun in a single incident
Cat Blue Guarded : 6 – 10
Cat YELLOW Elevated: 11 – 20
Cat ORANGE High : 21 – 30
Cat RED Severe : 31+
It seems like no gun violence tragedy is shocking enough for our Congress to do something. To hell with trying to figure out how to beg them to do something. Our energy would be much better spent electing people who care about human beings.
Poopyman
@The Red Pen:
WTF? Contractors got SLAMMED by the sequester. Once it became likely the gov’t agencies started a moratorium on a lot of new contracts, and once it hit they started paring money off of existing contracts. I’m out of a job as a contractor because of Sequestration.
Guess again.
boatboy_srq
@Southern Beale: Wasn’t there some snark from the far Right about how DC’s aggressive gun laws should have prevented this? Yet the shooter was from Texas – and last time I drove between states there still was no border inspection where your papers get examined and your car gets searched. So it really is Texas’ fault.
gene108
From what I understand security clearance is about the government verifying your ability to keep Secret and Top Secret information confidential and disclose them to inappropriate sources. They check on things like financial stability, because in the past spies have used money concerns of U.S. officials to get classified data.
Whether or not someone is going to turn into a mass murderer is not on the scope of things the government checks.
Also, too is mental illness going to be another barrier to gainful employment the way bad credit scores or recreational drug use have become?
If mental illness is the root cause of all these mass shootings – and not say the ready availability of firearms – when does it become O.K. to legally discriminate against the mentally ill? As it stands there’s enough stigma around mental illness that anyone with a diagnosis or time in in-patient isn’t going to be talking about it openly.
At what point do we decide it is the access to guns that is the problem, because most people with a diagnosis aren’t going on shooting rampages.
Gian
@MomSense:
If the slaughter of first graders is just a necessary sacrifice to the blood god I have little hope for change.
Maybe a whole right wing megachurch gets slaughtered by Black Muslims would move the hearts of the blood god worshipers that enough blood has been shed to satisfy their god
boatboy_srq
@Poopyman:
Guess again.
Tommy
@boatboy_srq: I know the NRA will think that and it hurts my head.
I personally HATE guns. But so many folks I know own a lot of guns and treat them with the respect I think they should receive. Hard for me to be mad at them. I love wild game and my friends and family members would never let me within a mile of their guns to hunt. They know I got no clue.
That to me means a ton ……
gian
@gene108:
My understanding is the naval yard murderer had a less than honorable discharge after firing a gun through the ceiling of his apartment.
I’m perfectly OK with that being a DQ for a job like he had. Or being a teacher or a cop for that matter. If making people who get mad and crank off rounds from a gun have limited employment options means I discriminate against them I’m okay with that
gene108
I’m sick and tired of people acting like the NRA does cra for gun owners, they are a bunch of cock-sucking, lick-spittle, milquetoast, pussies serving the gun grabbers agenda.
Real gun owners support the Gun Owners of America and other groups, who defend our second amendment freedoms.
*Actual argument, I’ve heard from gun nuts. The problem isn’t the NRA, it’s the fact several hundred thousand Americans think the NRA doesn’t go far enough. We, as a society, are our own worst enemy.
Poopyman
@boatboy_srq: What? Gathering up a bunch of opinions in this thread proves I’m wrong?
Weak.
schrodinger's cat
@Poopyman:Did you see my happy dance for the occasion?
Mike E
@The Dangerman: Isn’t the AR a commercial version of the M16? There might be a bit of media confusion on the make, but his tactic to gain weapon(s) upon entry seems to hold up.
@maya:
If that’s the solution in your mind, then picture me unarmed. I have never fired a gun/rifle in my life, and I will keep that streak going.
satby
@gian: I think the better option would be to DQ them from having guns, not jobs.
gian
@satby:
Jobs like he had or teacher or cop is not all jobs
The Red Pen
@Poopyman:
Sorry to hear you got shafted, but a lot of existing contracts continued just fine under sequestration. Mine did. I had no furlough or anything. Life on my contracts continued unabated. We’ll see what happened with the new fiscal year, but I didn’t see any contractors get “slammed” in my corner of the world. Government employees yes.
Cute.
Yatsuno
@schrodinger’s cat: I think i haz moderation at your place, but that makes sense since it was my first posting there.
PurpleGirl
@Violet: Nice try but the RWNJ won’t buy it. Don’t you know that owning guns is a God-given right. They just are, don’t question it. Physical disasters happen only to doing things God doesn’t like.
cvstoner
Here’s a suggestion, make it harder for people with demonstrated mental illness to get their hands on guns.
Also, take a lesson from MADD laws. They don’t stop you from drinking, they just throw the book at you if you get into a car and hit someone afterwards. You don’t have to tale away people’s guns, just throw the book at them if someone gets hurt. People will make their own decisions as to whether the risk justifies the desire.
boatboy_srq
@Poopyman: No, just questioning your definition of “we.”
English.
schrodinger's cat
@Yatsuno: I freed you from the moderashunz. Yes, I has set it up so that first comment has to be approved by me but stoopid WP put it in the spam folder.
Ben Cisco
@cleek: Bravo, and I say run with it.
WereBear
@cleek: I would suggest adding multipliers; such as the ethnicity, motivation, and religion of the perpetrator.
Dr. Mantis Toboggan
“If the sequester had been Obama’s plan”
It was.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2013/03/03/white-house-admits-third-time-president-obama-fibbed-on-sequester/
e.a.f.
Why the government continues with these “contractors” is beyond me. It is just a waste of money. (well it is a nice way to reward friends) Having that many contractors on a base just doesn’t offer enough security. Contractors are interested in making money, not in screening employees. They also aren’t interested in the worker’s well being. Military bases ought to have either members of the armed forces working on them or civilian workers who work for the military. That way there would be more scrutiney of workers and their well being. Having full time employees creates a sable work force, who become familiar with each other.
The shooting is a very sad reflection upon American society. The easy access to guns helped the shooter. He should not have been able to purchase a gun. He had “anger” issues previously. The man was a veteran, with PTSD. If he had been provided adequate care for his illness he might never have become a shooter.
Everboyd suffered here, the shooter, the wounded, the dead, their families and friends. The only one who didn’t suffer was the contractor and whomever awarded him the contract.
Bill Arnold
@cleek:
I thought an Onion piece “NRA Sets 1,000 Killed In School Shooting As Amount It Would Take For Them To Reconsider Much Of Anything” was well over the top at the time, but it might be about right.