No idea if we’ll see a government shutdown or not but this is worth reading:
Boehner clearly prefers to avoid a government shutdown. He’s spent months figuring out how to do that, fully aware of the political debacle it would entail. Unfortunately, it’s now clear that the only way he can induce the political isolation he typically relies on to prod his caucus into semi-rational action is by shutting down the government and inviting the public backlash he’s been so desperate to avoid. Boehner simply has no other way of talking sense into his people, no other hope of making the House GOP governable. And so, in the end, a shutdown is in Boehner’s interest, too.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
It’s not gonna be pretty, whatever happens. Or, why I’m widely known as Little Bella Sunshine.
Yatsuno
Signs point to yes. The real question will be if my office gets labeled essential and I still have to work with no guarantee of getting paid. Then debt ceiling hits and everything has to stop. Should be a very entertaining October.
Villago Delenda Est
Boner is fucked.
Pure and simple.
He can’t persuade the cretinous mass of crazy to look out for their own political skins. The mass of crazy is blinded by teatard fantasy and sheer hatred of the near sheriff.
Roger Moore
Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas. Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy than John Boehner.
HR Progressive
Or, maybe he tells all the “backbencher” nutjob Republicans that he’s going to govern with or without them, and work with the Dems to avoid manufacturing another crisis.
All the whack jobs hate everyone who doesn’t toe their exact line anyway, and the insani-tea has lost a lot more steam than its leaders are willing to admit…and even if a moron wins a primary, they aren’t going to win the general…so.
Can’t say I have any sympathy for him. He and other so-called “leaders” have fed the bullshit for too long to just cut them off cold turkey.
JPL
There should be an up or down vote in the House. The republican party has moved so far to the right, that I’m not sure it would pass. It might be worth a try. Boehner cannot get anything done without the Democratic members and he knows it. It’s time for him to man up.
Scott S.
@Villago Delenda Est: The mass of crazy is going to get even crazier when they have to choose between their teabagging “principles” and getting their Social Security checks.
RaflW
Clearly, Boehner has the wrong friends during times of stupidity.
Infamous Heel-Filcher
Until people realize the personal cost of acting like a crazy person, they have no reason to stop. The Teahadist brigade in the House can’t conceive of a government shutdown hurting them personally or professionally, and won’t until it does.
Shut it down, I say.
Yatsuno
@Scott S.: Not really. Rush will tell them to blame Obummer and they’ll follow right along as they open up their cat fud tins. They. Do. Not. Deal. In. Reality.
Villago Delenda Est
@Scott S.:
Interestingly, I saw a letter to the editor of the local daily fishwrap in which TrackTown’s new policy on plastic bags (they’re bad!) and charging the overwhelming price of a nickle for a paper bag is driving people of “principle” out of TrackTown to nearby Springtucky.
These are the people who validate Cleek’s Law by idling their autos all day on Earth Day because they think it will piss off the Greens…while burning up THEIR green in the process.
Idiots. All of them.
Shrillhouse
Even if Boehner and Cantor did have a plan to avert a shutdown (and they apparently don’t), they are rapidly running out of time to do it. They have, what, 13 days? And isn’t Congress only in session for something like five days this month?
It will take them 5 days just for the teabaggers to agree to on a clever buzz word for the shutdown. Remember the “Countdown to the Obamaquester” last time?
IowaOldLady
We can only hope it hurts them, but their districts are so gerrymandered that for all we know they’ll be rewarded.
Jeremy
I say shut it down. This will hurt the GOP in 2014 and 2016, and white seniors who love voting for the GOP need to learn the consequences of their racism and overall actions.
Villago Delenda Est
@Yatsuno:
Exactly. These are the morons who wail about “Welfare Cadilacs” but putter around on “Welfare (Medicare/Medicaid) Rascals”.
They scream that the government needs to keep its grubby hands off their Medicare/Medicaid. As you say, They. Do. Not. Deal. In. Reality.
schrodinger's cat
@Yatsuno: Your comment is free now. Stupid WP put in the spam folder. Sorry.
ETA: We is talking about my blog and my recent post on the fifth anniversary of the crisis. Click my blue name if you are interested. Kthx.
Villago Delenda Est
@Shrillhouse:
No, which is a testament to how catchy it was, too!
IowaOldLady
I’m trying to remember but I think the last time there was a shutdown, social security and medicare kept on functioning. As I recall, people in “essential” positions kept on working, trusting they’d eventually get their back pay, which they did. If anyone recalls otherwise, I’m open to correction.
Now, debt default is a whole different thing.
? Martin
They’ll pass CRs until the debt ceiling, relying on the idea that two simultaneous disasters is easier to deal with than just one.
EconWatcher
I assume a shutdown improves our chances in the midterms, so let them do as they will.
theturtlemoves
@Villago Delenda Est: Now if I could just freaking remember to bring my cloth bag with me when I need to pick up a few things at Freddie’s, I’d be fine. The nickel bag thing doesn’t bother me, but I do feel silly walking out of stores with hands full of stuff because I don’t want to waste the paper bag they now give and left my re-usable in the car.
Jeremy
@IowaOldLady: I don’t think it will help the republicans who hold seats in districts Obama won in 2008 and 2012. I looked at some districts where Obama lost to Romney by a few points and republicans hold those seats.
I don’t think the house is totally safe and that’s why the WSJ editorial page is telling them to back off.
Hill Dweller
Both Senate and House Republicans have refused for months to appoint their representatives for a budget conference, because they can’t filibuster the normal appropriations process, reducing their leverage. They chose instead to use a shutdown as leverage. This should be pointed out repeatedly.
me
Farce, Marx was right.
John O
Looks like a shutdown is inevitable and a default on the debt is likely. The only question for me is one of timing…when do I move my limited funds out of the market?
Soon, I think, is probably the smart answer.
IowaOldLady
The House has done nothing except repeal Obamacare for months now, and suddently, OMG, there are all these things with deadlines! They remind me of students putting off their homework until the night before it’s due.
Hill Dweller
@EconWatcher:
Never underestimate the “liberal” media’s ability to spin this as Obama’s fault.
Redshift
@? Martin:
Maybe, but that’s not what the wingnuts are saying. They’re so firmly ensconced in the bubble they think that Obama is “weakened” by Syria and will agree to delay Obama care rather than face a government shutdown. So far, they’re refusing to pass a CR that doesn’t include that.
? Martin
@IowaOldLady:
Yes. The permanent budget continues, and those are part of the permanent budget, along with Medicaid and some other things. The discretionary budget (which includes the military) is what gets shutdown. I don’t think we had anyone deployed when Gingrich lost his shit, so this will be extra special.
I think Congress will need to pass some sort of bill if only to protect the operations in Afghanistan. Not sure exactly how that plays out.
Jeremy
@IowaOldLady: I thought Social security checks stoped flowing, among many other things.
Trollhattan
@Yatsuno:
“We wouldn’t have this shutdown if only the president would LEAD.”
–Every Republican and pundit, everywhere.
schrodinger's cat
@John O: Where will keep them, under your mattress?
? Martin
@Redshift:
Boehner will be able to get Dems to support that. He only needs to bring 20 votes.
nemesis
The consequences from gummit shutdown for the gop are minimal. They are already a regional party. Nationally, they will be blamed for the shutdown and the subsequent havoc. Locally, they will be heralded as heroes.
The media will play a huge role in forming public opinion around who to blame. It will be business as usual where both sides are to blame.
Redshift
@IowaOldLady: Yeah, at the beginning of the session Cantor was blathering about how little time there was what with the religious holidays and stuff (I think as an attempt to kill immigration reform), and pretending that it had nothing to do with the fact that he and Boehner had set a schedule of working three days a week with long recesses, and then spent what little time remained on symbolic “repeal Obamacare” votes.
Jeremy
@Hill Dweller: Yeah they will try but they also tried to help Romney win and they failed. They played up the Tea Party and tried to stop the ACA and they failed, and they tried to turn the Syria deal into a negative and according to the latest Pew poll they failed.
Redshift
@? Martin: Yeah, I agree that if Boehner caves on the Hastert Suggestion and negotiates with the Dems, then it’ll happen.
scav
@Villago Delenda Est: As I’m a bear of very small brain, can we go over this slowly? They are now in a tither because a free-market entity has decided (frreeeeeeedooooommmmm!) to not subsidize the moochers who won’t bring their own bootstraps and use them as bags? ‘Fraid this is what happens when critical nouns lose all mooring (referring to my problem. I suspect certain others of losing contact with verbs, adjectives and adverbs, which is why I’m trying to hold the line here. Not wanting to venture into participlesan politics, of course.)
fuckwit
Fucking terrorists.
Villago Delenda Est
@Redshift:
I remember the wailing and rending of garments when that bossy Pelosi woman insisted that the House work four days a week.
Good grief, there are rambunctious preschoolers who behave with greater dignity and decorum than Rethuglicans.
John O
@schrodinger’s cat:
Sometimes the mattress option seems pretty good, but I could move them into a “stable value” fund made up pretty much entirely of AAA bonds (and cash). It might take a hit, too, but I shudder to think what the stock market will do when the wingnuts take the country hostage.
Interesting October, indeed. I will be PISSED at the POTUS if he caves again…but my own take is that he’s done dealing with the loons. Along those lines, I kind of can’t wait to see how Obama deals with them after the ’14 elections. I really feel like he, a most patient of men, has just about had enough.
Or I’m just projecting.
Bill E Pilgrim
@me: History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as a Marx Brothers movie.
EconWatcher
If the wingnuts are getting you down, and you’re feeling despondent about our country and its future, let me recommend a book I’m now reading about Putin’s Russia called Fragile Empire. Now THAT is one messed up country.
Whatever else you can say, here we have real political struggle and safe venues for waging it. It kinda helps me every now and then to remember how lucky we are to have that.
schrodinger's cat
@John O: The mortgage backed securities were triple AAA, and remember the credit crisis hit the repo market and the money market funds first. If the US defaults, all bets are off, and since dollar is the de facto global currency there will be no safe haven any where.
ETA: Defaulting on debt is like cutting your own nose to spite your face.
? Martin
I’m mistaken above. It’s not a permanent/discretionary distinction. It’s a separate essential/non-essential distinction, so war goes on undeterred, and some services keep going (SS, etc.) while others don’t. A lot of the safety net stuff is actually administered by the states (Medicaid, unemployment, food stamps) so they’ll be largely unaffected.
But I think SNAP simply ends at the end of the month because there’s no farm bill, so there’s no allocation of money to pay the states to run it.
schrodinger's cat
@EconWatcher: So true, or take India where they will go to polls next year and their choices are a man who presided over an ethnic cleansing (Narendra Modi) and the Luke Russert of Indian politics (Rahul Gandhi).
Emerald
Oh goody. I’m scheduled to get my first Social Security check on Oct. 9th.
And I really need it.
But I’ll survive if it means we can take back the House next year. One more month of dire poverty would be worth that result.
Chris
@Jeremy:
I agree that the Government Subsidized Glibertarian brigade is just crying out for cruel irony and that it would be cathartic, all things being equal, to watch the assholes finally get a taste of their own medicine, but it’s not like it would persuade them to change their minds. They’d just see it as another example of “The Government” screwing them. They’ll blame everything on Obama, for being so darn extreme and unreasonable that he refused to pass the teabaggers’ very reasonable suggestions. And while they’re suffering, there’ll probably be several hundred rumors circulating that Hispanics and blacks and union members are actually weathering it better than they are, because they’re getting Secret Handouts from the Department of Affirmative Action and Political Correctness.
John O
@schrodinger’s cat:
Yeah, I know. There really isn’t a very safe place to go, but of my somewhat limited options, that seems to be the best one. Should be able to keep my proverbial shirt.
What a clown show.
Mike E
@Villago Delenda Est: He without Stupid, cast the first kitten.
? Martin
I make $35K below the median for my zip code. That’s depressing.
Roger Moore
@Villago Delenda Est:
I think the idea that Congress is only doing its job when it’s in session is mistaken. It’s not as if they’re hanging out in DC partying on those long weekends; they’re going back to their districts to interact with their constituents, which is very much a part of their job. Maybe the need to change the schedule some (e.g. two solid weeks in DC, one solid week at home) so their schedule is more efficient, but they are definitely working for more than three days a week.
JPL
@Chris: The campaign will mention that grandma had to starve because of Obamacare. The MSM will say there is a point there and John McCain will be on Sunday shows spouting the same nonsense. It will be good times for those who get their news from Fox.
David in NY
@me: But they’re Farce, Farce — they don’t rise to Tragedy, Farce.
Jeremy
@John O: I think he doesn’t care because he is not up for re-election anymore. This is it for him.
I also think the democrats don’t mind a government shutdown because the economy is a lot more stable than it was in 2011, and they think the GOP will cave.
MattF
In the five legislative sessions between now and the end of the month, I expect votes number 42, 43, 44, 45, and 46 to repeal Obamacare. And nothing else.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mike E:
When they find that guy, they should throw him in front of a semi.
Then let him bleed to death on the curb.
Jeremy
@Roger Moore: I don’t consider spending time talking back at home serious work. Yes, they should be talking with their constituents but they should be spending more time in Washington passing legislation to solve problems.
If they can’t do that simple task maybe we should get rid of Congress and hire managers who can actually do the job. That would be my ideal solution.
David in NY
@Roger Moore: they’re going
back to their districts to interact with their constituents,out to dinner with lobbyists or holding fundraisers with corportate executives which is very much a part of their job.I think this is more like it.
Thymezone
Since Republicans apparently think that Valdimir Putin is particularly good at negotiating with President Obama, maybe John Boehner can bring Putin in as a consultant on the budget and debt limit negotiations. Putin obviously is more adept at bringing about a result favorable to the United States than Boehner is. The Russian leader can come over and have a round of golf with Boehner and give the Speaker some guidance on how to get what he wants from Obama.
Maybe even have Putin address the congress? Or have him sign up for some pundit gigs with FoxNews?
boatboy_srq
@Roger Moore: You’re assuming that Congresscritters will spend that week actually meeting with constituents and not attending ALEC-sponsored prefab “Town Halls”.
Jeremy
@Chris: LOL ! Yeah I know they will never see the light. But I still think they should suffer the consequences.
rikyrah
better shutdown than the debt ceiling.
a whole lotta White folks that vote GOP are gonna have to suffer the consequences of their vote.
that they will inflict pain on others…well, that’s how it’s gotta be.
tired of these muthafuckas and their irrationality.
John O
I’ll bet there are some very nervous Wall St. Republicans these days. Me thinks the public is not going to allow another bailout…
IowaOldLady
What they really spend a ton of their time doing is fund raising. I heard some new congressman says they had a training session and were told to spend something like 20 hours per week on the phone raising money. Your tax dollars at work.
Mike E
@Villago Delenda Est: I wonder if, in his haste, he doesn’t wind up on the grill of a semi trying to throw the next one.
But, then again, this is the local culture that thinks the best way to ‘dispose’ of used motor oil and excess kittens is to dump them in the nearest river.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mike E:
The stupid. It BURNS!
srv
@? Martin: Slacker. You should move to WV.
Figs
On the principle side, I want Chekhov’s shutdown to happen, and I want Republicans to take it on the chin hard.
On the practical side, this will hurt a lot of people. If the shutdown is protracted (and my instinct says that if a shutdown starts, in the short term there will be a lot of finger-pointing and very little compromise), that’ll hurt, and it’ll hurt bad. A lot of that pain will be contained in the government employee community, but those are people.
Last time there were shutdowns and employees had to go on emergency furlough, the government compensated for the time they were involuntarily made not to work. Can any of us see that happening now? Say there’s a month of furlough. Do we really think that Republicans are going to put a provision paying federal employees for a month of non-work into their compromise agreement?
Jeremy
@Figs: I agree. But the people in this country need to wake up and stop this nonsense. The 2010 election is coming back to bite this country in the behind, but a lot of old white folks wanted to punish the negro so this is where we are. The American people will have to suffer the consequences of voting against their interests.
Bonnie
Shutting the government down hurts real people, real families. I know I was one of those government employees in 1995. Since I was a lower graded employee (GS-6) living in the Washington, DC metropolitan area, I was between a rock and a hard place. When the first shutdown occurred, we did not even know if we would get paid for the work we had already done (I think about three days). If we didn’t get paid, I would not be able to pay my rent; thus, would face eviction. I went out and bought a lot of cat food to make sure my cats would eat; but, no food for myself. It was scary. However, in the end, they paid us for the days we did not work. Consequently, if they do shut the government done, the taxpayers will most likely pay all those government workers for being off work. As far as I know, Congress and staff did get paid during those shutdowns we had. Really not fair. Any future shutdowns should involve Congress and staff NOT getting paid until the shutdown is over.
Mike E
@Jeremy:
Fix’t for truth, justice, and the American way.
Figs
@Jeremy: Oh, I know. Believe me. I mean, I leaned hard on the practical side in the comment for personal reasons, but on the principled side, my wife and I have sat and screamed at John Boehner on the TV, and known that shutdown threats can’t be allowed to be seen as a legitimate negotiating tool.
I just fear that after having been threatening this for 4+ years now, it’s so pent up that now it’s going to be far worse than it would have been had the trigger been pulled in 2011.
Figs
@Bonnie: I don’t think it’s constitutional for Congress to not get paid during a shutdown. But it’d depend on a close reading. As for staff, sure, they should be sidelined as well, no question.
But as far as federal employees getting paid for hours furloughed during a shutdown? I really have a hard time seeing that happening this time. If the TP types are willing to force a shutdown, I don’t see why they wouldn’t be willing to force another confrontation over “doling out pork to overpaid federal employees for doing nothing.” They haven’t said that yet, but I feel it’s close enough to what they would say that quotes are merited.
gelfling545
Oh, Mr. Boehner, the GOP congresspersons & their tea party supporters are not going to love or respect you no matter what you do. Your best bet is to at least try to do the right thing and try to govern with whatever coalition you can slap together for the actual good of the country so that history will record that, in the end, at least you tried even though your colleagues disregarded you.
cleek
@nemesis:
this is a dangerous myth. if anything, the Democratic party is the regional party: east and west coast, southern border and the upper mid-west. the GOP dominates everywhere else.
Jeremy
@Figs: I agree with you there. The republicans during the Gingrich years were more sensible and willing to compromise than this group. Which is scary because the Gingrich republicans at that time were considered radical.
Mike E
@cleek: Yep, they are WalMart these days. It would be nice if more was done to expose this fact.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@John O:
Follow Cantor’s lead. If there’s money to be made here, he’s already on it.
Trollhattan
@Thymezone:
Shirtless golf, hmmmm. Boehner would have to get the “full-body orange you tan?” special at the spray booth, beforehand.
? Martin
@cleek:
Jeremy
@cleek: They dominate the areas of the country that contain the least amount of people. Majority of the populace resides in the areas the Democrats dominate.
? Martin
@cleek:
Um, those are all of the major population centers, with the exception of a run of Texas. The Dems may lose on votes per square mile, but that only has a bearing in the Senate.
Chris
@cleek:
Or to put it another way, the Republicans dominate the South and the West and not much else.
cleek
@Jeremy, et al:
“region” refers to land, not to population.
look at the map. note the little blue regions which have been chipped out of the big red area.
“regional party”. that’s what i was talking about. mmk?
cleek
@Chris:
and the center and the north center, and all the way to the coastal counties, everything except the regions of NE, the coastal strips and a little chunk up north.
Roger Moore
@cleek:
Both parties have regional strengths, but I think you’re overreading that map. Yes, there’s a whole lot of red on it, but that’s because the Republicans dominate the areas of low population density and the Democrats dominate the areas of high population density. And a party that controls both coasts, the southern border, and the upper midwest doesn’t sound like a regional party to me; it sounds like a party that’s managed to win in several different regions. Of course, a party that is largely in control of the Deep South, Greater Appalachia, and the Ohio and Missouri basins doesn’t sound like a regional party, either.
Jeremy
@cleek: No I agree with you and I understood what you said. I just said that the Democrats dominate where the majority of the people live.
WereBear
I don’t want a shutdown. It would hurt innocent people, and the non-innocent are paid to not learn.
However, a great big noisy fuss can only help our own cause.
cleek
@Roger Moore:
several small regions vs the ginormous contiguous region that contains everything else ? if makes more sense to refer to the former as regional, IMO.
i don’t get why you people are so afraid of the word. it’s a question of geometry, not popularity.
TAPX486
The GOP/wingnut world are already starting on why didn’t the Navy know this guy in Washington was nuts. How did he slip thru the background checks. And just like with Benghazi, when you ‘starve the system’ with budget cuts and the sequester then bad things are more likely to happen. The right still can’t make the connection.
opiejeanne
@Villago Delenda Est: I bring my own bags to the store. Most places give me a nickel per bag. I told another woman who was fussing about the upcoming charge in her community and she whined that one bag doesn’t hold enough. Dummy. We have a bunch that cost a buck each and have been paid for several times over in refunds.
The Dangerman
There is zero, zip, nada, Elvis has left the motherfucking building, Alabama loses to Chattanooga, nil chance of a default over Debt Limit.
I’d call shutdown 50/50; Yats, how is the golf in Seattle in October?
schrodinger's cat
@TAPX486: From a crazy “traditionalist” blog that I sometimes read; they are blaming affirmative action for yesterday’s incident.
TAPX486
@schrodinger’s cat: makes sense on alternate earth I guess. By Friday the Kenyan socialist will be accused of buying the shotgun
ranchandsyrup
OT but twerking is now illegal in DeQuincy, LA. 30 days jail for 1st offense. Because, Jesus. http://www.prlog.org/12211658-city-in-louisiana-makes-twerking-illegal-30-days-in-jail-for-first-offense.html
Villago Delenda Est
@TAPX486:
Cause and effect are reality based. Not in the wingtard toolbox.
cleek
@ranchandsyrup:
that’s awesome.
30 years ago, that will turn up on some News of The Weird media-transmission-protocol and all the kids will be like “OMG, my parents were so fucking lame.”
NonyNony
@John O:
Default on the debt is not only not likely, it is impossible. It will not happen. Obama would actually be impeached if he allowed the full faith and credit of the US government to come into question. This is in fact why the Republicans feel so comfortable threatening to default – they know it will not actually happen.
He’ll do something to pay the debt obligations. If they force his hand maybe he’ll even go so far as to mint that trillion dollar coin that some folks have talked about if he perceives that as the only way to keep the US government’s bonds guaranteed. Because he’s not going to be the President who sits there and lets the full faith and credit of the US government come into question. (They may impeach him for it after the fact anyway, of course – the House can impeach him for breathing or for anything else if they want to. But if the House pushes this nonsense that far I doubt you’d find even a single Democratic Senator who would go along with finding him guilty of saving the USA from the idiocy of the Tea Party at this point.)
scav
@cleek: While spatial contiguity may be a desireable characteristic of regions, it’s not the be all and end all of the definition, and certainly not as you move from simple geometry to geography esp. of the multivariate human sort. Besides, it’s a definition without much practical import to my mind. Breaks down as one changes scale. Handy for shorthand analysis, but.
ranchandsyrup
@cleek: The mayor was careful to note that it’s not like how it was in the movie Footloose
What happens if someone has the tremors?
Southern Beale
@Yatsuno:
Thanks for commenting over at my place!!
So, this is hilarious: remember that Christian family which tried to leave all of that horrible persecution Christians experience here in Murka (Arizona, no less! Heathens!)? And they got lost at sea and had to be rescued? They’re leaving again! This time, ironically, they’re also worried about … wait for it … immigration reform.
Let’s hope wherever they end up treats immigrants more kindly then they feel inclined to.
WereBear
@ranchandsyrup: How magnanimous of them.
ranchandsyrup
@WereBear: I’m sure the law enforcement officers will enjoy determining what constitutes a twerk and what doesn’t. The mayor’s just troll-scolding the heathens. The ACLU will have some fun with this.
Ash Can
Bullshit. As others have said, if Boehner genuinely wanted to avoid a shutdown, he’d tell his pet idiots to go fuck themselves with the Washington Monument and work with the Dems to get this shit done.
No, he doesn’t “clearly prefer” to avoid a government shutdown. What he clearly prefers is to keep his Speaker’s gavel. That’s his priority. He can go eat shit and bark at the moon with the rest of the House GOP assholes.
scav
@ranchandsyrup: Somebody remind that upholder of civic non-affronts to Jeebus that waltzing was considered decadent and, when finally breaking into the shrine of Almacks, was only allowed to individuals if they had been explicitly allowed by the patronesses. Dance licenses of DaQuincy should be a moneyspinner too!
James E. Powell
Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see the downside for the Republicans. They have demonstrated that their own voters will never desert them so long as they remain vocally opposed to that [insert racist epithet]. And any Republican who is perceived at any time, on any issue, to be an ally of that [insert racist epithet] is a target for a primary challenge. Enough of those primary challenges have succeeded that they are all deemed credible.
No matter what kind of chaos or economic misery results from a shut down, the Republicans and a very large percentage of the unaffiliated are going to blame the president and only the president. For the Republicans it’s a matter of their worldview, for the unaffiliated a matter of habit.
And as with almost every other Big Crisis moment of his presidency, Obama lost the public debate before it began by allowing the Republicans to set the terms and boundaries of the debate. Why are we still talking about the debt/deficit? Because Obama agreed it was the most important issue in the history of the United States to the exclusion of all other considerations.
Randy Khan
@cleek et al.
That map is deceptive because it’s based on Congressional districts, which are equal in population, more or less, making rural districts look more important. If you go to the county level, you see Democratic counties all over the country, if not quite in every state. (Here’s a place where you can see a county map for the 2012 presidential election: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/election-map-2012/president/).
At the Presidential level, the Republican party basically has been a Southern/Upper Midwest party the last two elections. The Dems either pretty much swept or split all of the other regions (and with Florida and Virginia going to the Dems both times and North Carolina go their way in 2008, you could argue the South is split, too).
Villago Delenda Est
@ranchandsyrup:
Forgive my poor biblical scholarship, but I can’t recall Jesus making any comment on twerking anywhere in the Gospels. Perhaps it was in a long lost non-canonical account of his visit to a Jerusalem Gentlemen’s Club?
bemused
@ranchandsyrup:
Will there be video “evidence” to examine if the ordinance has been violated or will it be left to the determination of officers called? I’m betting the city’s scolds are secretly hoping for video they can watch over and over.
ranchandsyrup
@ranchandsyrup: Sorry everyone, it’s a hoax. Going to go hang my head in shame and think about what I’ve done.
flukebucket
Have you guys seen this?
Larry is crazier now than he has ever been.
schrodinger's cat
@James E. Powell: The moneybags that support the Repubs do not want a default. I don’t know how much they care about a shut down.
schrodinger's cat
@flukebucket: I clicked on your link. You should have warned me. Now I have to purify my lap-top and myself with holy water. Who is that crazy person?
daverave
Speaking of cutting off nose to spite face… this is why we can’t have nice things:
Study: Just a Third of Uninsured Americans Hold Positive View of Obamacare
John O
@NonyNony:
I think you’re being too…rational about this. I’m working with a “the House is not rational” paradigm.
Obama may mint the coin, or come up with something else, but calling it “impossible” is almost funny to me. The TPer’s are both ignorant of and uncaring of the consequences.
bemused
@bemused:
You really shouldn’t be embarrassed. Anyone would totally believe that considering what Christianists have been trying to do and often succeeding all over the country for years.
scav
@ranchandsyrup: Damn! And I just managed a song.
Amir Khalid
@Ash Can:
I don’t really understand why Böhner still wants to be Speaker. Surely all the fun went out of it long ago. Herding cats would be easier and less stressful than herding all the nutjobs in his party caucus. Why not just retire to some cushy right-wing sinecure?
John O
@Amir Khalid:
The Power jones is hard to break.
ranchandsyrup
@scav: Someone dig up Ray Parker Jr. Wait, he’s still alive?
satby
OT, but related in a round-about way as we talk about the wreckage the Rs have wroght: can I put in a bleg for a donorschoose project that is so small and has had no luck at all getting funds? It’s for a school in Detroit, and the funding closes the day before i get paid, and I’m overdrawn so I can’t chip in. But how sad is it when teachers have to fundraise to get toner for the printer in the classroom?
cleek
@Randy Khan:
the key word in my comment is REGIONAL. and that has nothing to do with population density. it’s a geographical term.
the presidential level has 50 samples. going by Congressional district, you get 435 samples. which tells you more about the regions in your data: 50 samples, or 435 samples ?
cleek
@ranchandsyrup:
boooooo!
@Ash Can:
exactly.
Ben Cisco
@ranchandsyrup: Yes. Yes he is.
Jay C
@opiejeanne:
Here’s a bold, radical notion to deal with this dire problem: Bring another m*****f****ing bag!!!!
Or is that too simple a solution….?
cleek
@flukebucket:
whew. that’s the densest wingnuttery i’ve ever come across. much denser and it might collapse into a derp hole.
Ben Cisco
@daverave: They’d rather drown than let the near assist them.
If he threw them a rope, they’d try to hang him with it WHILE drowning.
WereBear
@Jay C: I have a bunch of various bags in my car for use everywhere, and I’ve started leaning towards the better ones, because they hold more, easier to carry, and won’t send your stuff bouncing down the stairs.
The local groceries have turned to plastic bags so thin they are putting one thing in it and going to the next — insane!
piratedan
yeah because the needs of the party obviously outweigh the needs of the nation…. and they call us the Commies……
Roger Moore
@cleek:
You’re misunderstanding the term. As it’s used politically, it means that their political power comes predominantly from a single region of the country, i.e. the South. Whether that’s an accurate description- they are getting plenty of Reps from the Midwest and a fair number from the West- it’s how it’s meant in parlance.
Ben Cisco
@piratedan: Party Über Alles, that’s their motto.
James E. Powell
@schrodinger’s cat:
I disagree. While the moneybags will not enjoy the shut down, they are in a position to survive and thrive. The goal that overrides all other goals is to destroy the Obama administration, in fact and in perception.
gene108
@Hill Dweller:
The MSM just reports the news.
Republicans and their media outlets will start saying how this is Obama’s fault and the MSM will report this as news.
It happened with the sequester, when Republicans started saying it was Obama’s idea in January, while Congress and the White House were ostensibly trying to work out a deal to avoid it. No one in the MSM bothered to ask why Obama had to put sequestration on the table. I mean it’s not like the Republicans took the unprecedented step of holding the debt ceiling hostage in 2011 or anything to force spending cuts.
In all honesty, the MSM doesn’t bother me. It’s the whatever percentage of people who keep voting for Republicans that bother me. They actually believe what Rush, Fox News, et. al. are telling them.
EriktheRed
@Villago Delenda Est:
We’re all fucked if he is, in this case.
piratedan
@gene108: my issue with this gene is who is out there telling them any different? THAT’s why the MSM bothers me.
cleek
@Roger Moore:
but, it doesn’t. hence my complaint.
James E. Powell
@cleek:
that’s the densest wingnuttery i’ve ever come across.
You must not go walking in the wing-nut woods much. That Larry Klayman rant was pretty much standard right-wing dogma. You can switch out some of the noun phrases to make the topics relevant, but they’ve been talking like that since January 2009. Many of them before that.
piratedan
@cleek: correct, they’ve co-opted most of the midwest and a fair portion of the west, not confined to the coast.
schrodinger's cat
@piratedan: Have you seen their ratings lately? How many people actually get their news from the MSM?
James E. Powell
@piratedan:
I have the same issue with the corporate press/media, but their “follow the FOX” behavior has been in place for years now.
What is striking to me is the extent to which elected Democrats repeat and legitimize right-wing arguments. It’s almost like they don’t care whether they are in the majority or not.
Alex S.
You heard it, nation! Accept the shutdown and we can finally live in peace again!
chopper
@ranchandsyrup:
man, the next remake of Footloose is going to be nuts.
Buttloose! Buttloose!
everybody cut Buttloose!
piratedan
@schrodinger’s cat: granted, but for the folks that don’t have/take the time to find their news elsewhere, it’s hard to ignore that the Faux brigade reaches and influences a good number of folks because there’s no real debate going on in the MSM, just different shades of “How bad Democrats are today”. It’s going to take some time for Al Jazeera to reach folks and how many closed minds has Faux already crafted with their constant pounding of the drums with fear based zero sum politics? That’s the difference between really winning and ending these fucking culture wars once and for all and getting around to real issues like jobs, infrastructure, the environment and helping the world find a way to keep Muslims from killing each other.
chopper
@NonyNony:
it is clearly a trap. the GOP tries to force a default, and if it is allowed to happen they impeach the president, and if he does something to run around a default they impeach him for it.
i don’t think obama cares too much about that tho. he’ll do whatever he can to avoid default. but a shutdown may still happen.
sucks, cause while i’d get some time off i wouldn’t probably get retroactive pay like in the 90’s.
Chris
@gene108:
The MSM wouldn’t bother me as much if it was the rightmost fringe of our media spectrum. In our present context, it’s the leftmost.
cleek
wow. RenewAmerica makes WND look smart.
here’s Alan Keyes (Mr 27!) thinking about the 2014 election:
(his emphasis)
how do you rape someone of their birthright ?
flukebucket
@cleek:
I had forgotten about Klayman. I remember him running front and center for the impeachment of Bill Clinton but honestly I had no idea he had slipped out into much, much deeper and darker waters. It is true though. That WND crowd has no shortage of crazy but for some reason that screed just hit new depths for me. Good God.
kc
Can someone tell me: If the government “shuts down,” will those motherfuckers in Congress continue getting their paychecks?
That’s all I want to know.
Bobby Thomson
@cleek: Otherwise known as where people live. You’ll have to do better than a map of wide-open empty space that voted for Republicans.
Bobby Thomson
@cleek: And Democrats dominate in each one of those regions (except the South, the Great Plains, and Mormon country) because land doesn’t vote. Come on, you’re not stupid.
chopper
@cleek:
that’s a crazy second-degree mixed metaphor.
Bobby Thomson
@cleek:
Not really. To win a region, you have to win the votes of the region.
Roger Moore
@WereBear:
I started using reusable bags a long time ago after getting one free for being one of the first hundred shoppers at a newly opened Trader Joe’s. That one was enough to convince me to buy more for exactly the reasons you give: they hold more, they don’t break, and I can carry them hands-free by slipping my arm through the straps. I’m sure that the people who are resisting them so hard today will get over it once they actually start using them. It’s all about fearmongering by the plastics industry and instinctive resistance to anything new and different.
chopper
@flukebucket:
my kingdom for a FEMA republican work camp.
Roger Moore
@chopper:
Because impeaching the President went so well for them the last time.
karen
@Jeremy:
How nice of you to decide that Jeremy. I’m unemployed. If the government shuts down I get no money at all.
No rent can be paid. My COBRA doesn’t get paid which means I lose my health insurance.
So why don’t you get off your fucking high horse and shove it up your ASS!
fuckwit
@Thymezone: Putin is good at negotiating with Obama because Putin is rational and has power to negotiate. The teabaggers are not rational, and Boner has no power to negotiate. So, fail.
I think Obama realized that it’s time for No More Mr. Nice Guy after Boner left him at the alter during one of the teabagger hostage crises (which one? There have been a few now). Obama acted like he was thinking, OK, this is Washington, we can wheel and deal and we’ll shake hands afterwards and agree to disagree and will keep the nation operating like adult leaders do, and let the political sideshow/freakshow continue as it will. And Boner reneged on that, couldn’t deliver his caucus, and Obama found that weakness contemptible and that shirking of duty shameful. To me, that looked like the end.
karen
@chopper:
Chopper, they’re impeaching the President for not resigning or killing himself yet.
karen
@gene108:
Because they want to.
Roxy
@satby:
Done. I hope it helps this classroom. I was very lucky to go through public school when I did.
David Fud
@John O: Really bad idea as long bonds are already overpriced. Could easily take a 5-10% capital hit. Good luck whetever you decide.
chopper
@Roger Moore:
as if these guys give a shit about reality.
ruemara
@? Martin: That’s ok. I make 93% below median household income for my zip. I’m surprised I’m not constantly pickled.
Origuy
@satby: It’s already been completed. They were costing the toner cartridges at list price; I can get them at employee discount for $4 off. I’m surprised they weren’t able to get an educational discount, though.
EthylEster
@Thymezone: If he were shirtless, it would be a Win!
EthylEster
@Figs: I’m pretty confident they’ll fix it for themselves..sort of like the airport snafu.
The Fat Kate Middleton
@Origuy: I love donorschoose.org. It’s such a pleasure for me to give to one of their projects. As far as educational discount is concerned, I found in my years as a teacher that said discount was not always a given, by any means. To receive it in my city, we had to have an agreement already in place between the vendor and the school district; establishing such an agreement was so difficult and time-consuming that I rarely took the time to make it happen. Yes, I should have, and yes, I felt guilty. But when you’re already working nearly 100 hours a week, that’s just the way it went.
Redshirt
We’re doomed.
Matt
@cleek:
Good thing square miles of land don’t get votes, then: because that’s all that that map shows. Saying “look at how much RED there is!” when the vast majority of that red is cornfields and miscellaneous BFEery is nonsense.
satby
@Roxy: thank you! I went iut to dinner and came back and her project was fully funded! You are a mench!
satby
@Origuy: I was stunned and delighted to see it had been fully funded by only 2 donors. I don’t know if you were one as well as Roxy, but if you were thank you from me as well as the class. Both donors must have been very generous! Thanks again Roxy!!
J R in WV
So how about buying a shit-load of Euros? Just for a couple of weeks?
cleek
@Bobby Thomson:
strawman defeated!
i encourage you to point out where i said otherwise! and then you can move on to WTF that has to do with anything.
i’m not sure why you all insist on arguing against points i never made. seems like a strange thing to do. maybe you should look into that.
cleek
@Matt:
REGION, not people. REGIONREGIONREGIONREGIONREGIONREGIONREGIONREGION!
do you understand that a “region” is, in fact, a geographic term, not a demographic one? if so, maybe that will help you all understand what i’m talking about.
but probably not.
Roxy
@satby:
You are welcome satby.