Newest conservative hero is Putin, for being a bigot.
3.
ruemara
Jesus Christ. Shut up, Atlantic, you’re drunk.
4.
fuckwit
Welcome to Europe. The American Christian Fundamentalists once again lagging and biting ideas from the Islamic Fundamentalists.
Islamists have been using this line of reasoning in Europe, claiming that being forced not to discriminate is discrimination, for a while there. I don’t remember whether it has worked or not. But I guess here it comes to our shores as well.
5.
Walker
Only if you believe laws against ritual human sacrifice also threaten freedom of religion.
Former President George H.W. Bush served as a witness at a same-sex wedding over the weekend.
The Washington Post reports Bush served as an official witness at the wedding of Bonnie Clement and Helen Thorgalsen, who own a general store together in Maine. Thorgalsen posted the following photo to Facebook showing Bush signing their marriage license:
So I guess Jebbie’s out for ’16. I’d like to say this is a sign of evolution or decency, but it just points up that the Bushes are quite possibly the political clan/sub-group the most contemptuous of the GOP base
7.
Scotius
What a poorly thought out, poorly written piece. I suppose after allowing Megan McArdle to write there, the editors have become used to lowering their standards.
8.
Suzanne
I have a friend who said something like this. She argued that if gay marriage were legal, her rights would be violated because she would be forced to acknowledge as fact something she didn’t believe in. This is just such utter fail in my mind. I apcan acknowledge many things to have occurred without endorsing them. LORD.
She’s LDS, too, so she won’t really debate the issue with me. More important to be polite.
9.
Keith G
I do understand the need to confront the denial of retail service thing, but maybe because I have lived in the Montrose, the Gay neighborhood of Houston (AKA Homoville) for over two decades, I don’t get wanting to spend money (or time) on easily replicable services run by Gay hating folks.
This goes particularly when purchasing creative services that interact with moments of great emotion and/or intimacy. They can be forced to render that service, but there would be too much baggage to get their best creative effort.
10.
Zifnab
The word “Gay” appears absolutely nowhere in the Constitution. Therefore, you should feel free to stone gays at your leisure.
I have a friend who said something like this. She argued that if gay marriage were legal, her rights would be violated because she would be forced to acknowledge as fact something she didn’t believe in.
Should other religions therefore be illegal? Don’t they force her to acknowledge as fact something she doesn’t believe in?
14.
Walker
I was at a college graduation where Santorum was the speaker. This line of argument was the main topic of his graduation speech (it was a Catholic U).
This goes particularly when purchasing creative services that interact with moments of great emotion and/or intimacy. They can be forced to render that service, but there would be too much baggage to get their best creative effort.
I can’t imagine having a photographer at my wedding if he/she was against gay marriage. I would not patronize businesses that are anti-gay if I could help it. I’m much more concerned with the broader issue of employment and making sure gay people cannot be fired simply for being gay. If the local florist wants to let their homo hating flag fly, I say go for it, and let people know just where they stand. Better to patronize supportive businesses than some bigots hiding behind their so called values.
16.
Chris
They really do think that “freedom” means being allowed to do absolutely whatever they want with zero regard to how it affects any other people, and that unless everyone agrees to play the game they want, by the rules they want,* they’re being “oppressed.”
* Except when they decide that those rules don’t apply anymore for the moment because it would be inconvenient for them if they did. And when they decide that, everyone is also expected to go along with their suspension of the rules. And if everyone doesn’t agree to that, that, also, means they’re being oppressed.
17.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
And because I’m a masochist, I went through the comments, so I have to ask:
How the hell is it that a former KKK member that has publicly recanted and made tangible amends personally and politically gets tarred forever as a super-mega-ultra-filthy racist, while shitstains like Strom Thurmond and Trent Lott, unabashed racist assholes, get fucking deified posthumously and repeatedly? I’m fucking sick of this shit that because Democrats back in the day were racist, it means current Democrats are the super mega-ultra racist bastards pushing neo-slavery. Because I’m seeing so much fucking more of that being peddled everywhere.
Should other religions therefore be illegal? Don’t they force her to acknowledge as fact something she doesn’t believe in?
Please don’t go around asking them that. They’d probably answer “yes,” and by the end of the week that, too, would’ve become a Very Serious Article. :D
Sigh… I remember reading something about a Man who hung out with ‘sinners’ and other folks the religious people of His day found undesirable. I wonder if they’d say that He was condoning ‘sin’.
Anyway, if you find your religious principles definitively prevent you from hanging out with gay folks or taking pictures of their weddings, then there’s a simple option: Don’t be a jerk and tell them that you can’t do it because your religion says they’re going to be tortured for all eternity by a loving God. Be nice, wish them well, and explain that you have personal business on the day of their event and go out with your family to a movie or something so you’re not lying.
Or I suppose you could plaster all of your advertisements with fish and crosses. I’m guessing that most gay people aren’t going to go out of their way to provoke a fight and won’t bother calling.
All in all, I don’t see why the government should get involved in enforcing a particular religious viewpoint.
Well, more good news from Cali. US defended America’s Cup, with 8 consecutive must-wins at the end. Unbelievable comeback by the Americans. Nice event from San Francisco. Larry Ellison may be a complete asshole, but kudos to him for backing the effort and building a winning boat and team.
22.
shelly
According to some Colorado dude, Democrats are using Jedi mind control to make people accept gay marriage.
He also goes on about how it’s just like out of ‘Brave New World”, with Big Brother. He was later corrected that Big Brother’s in ‘1984.”
Why can’t conservatives keep their books straight? Latest example, Cruz and getting the point of ‘Green Eggs and Ham’ all wrong.
He is so running in ’16 it isn’t funny. He had a private meeting with Ohio state legislators this week. They reportedly discussed how quickly they can privatize public education, so obviously it has to be Top Secret. God forbid they let a alternate view in there or an actual member of the public.
I can’t even imagine the fawning that was going on among those dopes. Probably fondly recalling how they used to win presidential elections. They’re not a real imaginative bunch, and they won with that other Bush, what’s his name.
24.
fuckwit
@ranchandsyrup: It would be irresponsible not to be.
25.
LanceThruster
Gay rights legislation is not trampling on freedom of religion.
Damn right it’s not trampling it.
It’s sticking it right where the sun don’t shine. About time, too!
xD
26.
fuckwit
@Suzanne: I’m pretty sure the courts have held on several occasions that the right to discriminate is not a right. And I’d hope that the Civil War and then Brown vs Board of Ed, etc, settled that question pretty convincingly. But with this current SCOTUS, and seeing what they did to the VRA, I’d be a little nervous if they decided to take such a case on.
I always thought it went “religion, politics, and money.”
Though having grown up in the DC area, the “politics” part of that ban was pretty much lifted.
30.
Keith G
@Zifnab: It’s Autumn, so aside from the all important weather change, it’s festival season in Houston. I am staggering distance from the Greek Fest – a Retsina drenched weekend.
I have a friend who said something like this. She argued that if gay marriage were legal, her rights would be violated because she would be forced to acknowledge as fact something she didn’t believe in.
She isn’t being “forced to acknowledge” shit. She can go on not believing in whatever she wants. Mormonism isn’t illegal, but no one is forcing me to “acknowledge as fact” any of their beliefs.
You’re doing it wrong. Betteridge’s Law of Headlines states that the answer to any headline that ends in a question mark is no. If the author could convincingly answer yes, they’d make the positive statement of their point into the headline. Since the use of the Cavuto mark clearly is the mark of a hack, you should make a positive statement rather than asking a question. Also, too, by putting it that way, you’re calling yourself a hack.
@Chris: Bob Barr IIRC once proposed a law outlawing the practice of Wicca in the armed forces, maybe other religions he disapproved of. It would surprise me not to learn he had to be persuaded from including Popery, Mohamism and Jewry.
@Kay: I’d say there’s a fifty/fifty chance Jeb Bush would be crushed under the weight of Rand/Cruzism, which would be sweet to watch– especially if Big Bad Bar is stil compost mentis enough to start insulting the Tea Baggers, or he could be the boring old grey flannel white guy I still think eventually they’ll run with.
Also, too, by putting it that way, you’re calling yourself a hack.
Which is why it was funny.
37.
Villago Delenda Est
Somehow, if they’re not allowed to treat other people like shit, AND impose that treatment of others on others with the force of law, their freedom is being infringed.
I have two words for them.
FUCK YOU.
38.
scav
How kind of their God to send down his only begotten son to be nailed up and bring the gospel, the glad tidings and cover that it was perfectly justifiable if not morally superior to be shit to the people they disagree with.
39.
Violet
Related wingnuttery: How the hell do you deal with someone who believes that every fossil on earth is from after Noah’s flood and “no new fossils are being made.” I was in a situation where I had to be polite, so I just smiled and kept my mouth shut. But WTF?
40.
Jade Jordan
Cole, this is a gay coverup so we don’t talk about Playboy ranking WVU the number 1 party school. No one here will be surprised, considering your antics.
41.
Comrade Jake
Well, some people of faith are complaining about all these new-fangled gay rights laws. If some people are complaining, perhaps there’s something to this, right guys?
I’d say there’s a fifty/fifty chance Jeb Bush would be crushed under the weight of Rand/Cruzism,
I don’t believe that. I think they keep both Rand and Cruz around for a primary to keep two parts of the base engaged then they both lose and all the Rand/Cruz supporters rally ’round the nominee. There was a lot of blather last time but Romney won, and they all voted for him.
I’m not even convinced the current Cruz Show is anything but GOP theater. The Tea Partiers need a fighter, and they’re going to give them one. It doesn’t matter if he wins. They have to keep those folks hanging in. There’s no other energy in that Party.
@Violet: I actually met a woman who after twenty years of marriage, god told her she didn’t need to tolerate more beatings. All I could think was it wouldn’t have taken god that long to tell me but also kept my mouth shut.
46.
Violet
@Kay: Back to the future: 2016 Presidential nominees Clinton and Bush.
While I wouldn’t want to patronize a homophobic business, they still have to serve whoever comes in the door on equal terms. If they don’t like that, then they should turn themselves into a religious nonprofit; then they can serve just their own kind if they want to.
Oh, and Violet, I have implemented some of your suggestions on my web site, like taking out the word “our” from my menus & such. Appreciate your critique!
50.
Ash Can
If your religion compels you to force everyone else to abide by its strictures whether or not they are adherents of that religion themselves, you need to rethink this whole living-in-the-USA idea. Iran or Saudi Arabia is more your speed.
51.
Violet
@WereBear: I hope it’s not payback, because that would mean Jebbie would win. Ugh.
Glad the suggestions were helpful! Do you have an “About Us” section on your website? I always look for that to get an idea of who the person/people are who are running the website and what their qualifications are to be doing what they’re doing.
I guess that explains why their missionaries are working overtime to create Christian version of that in Africa (see also “Uganda” and “Kill-the-gays bill”). As a refuge from the infidel Obama and his heretical heresy.
@? Martin: When M-80, Bottle Rocket and I were in San Francisco last month we saw one of the racing boats (NZ/Emirates, IIRC) practicing out on the bay. Those things can really tear.
Is it just me or do Beau Bridges and Jeb! share an uncanny resemblance?
61.
Donut
I can’t figure out why so many of you are fixated on the headline. The piece is not favorable towards the religious right POV on the question.
Shitty headline? Yes, but read the fucking piece before pronouncing your disdain.
62.
MattR
@dmsilev: Maybe he finally figured out what the ending of Green Eggs and Ham meant.
Nah. Who am I kidding? When your plan to fund the government without funding Obamacare includes trying to stop a bill that funds the government but not Obamacare, you are destined to go out in a blaze.
I, too, like to know who I am dealing with. Sadly, I have run across some websites who go out of their way to proclaim their particular religion… and such activity makes me feel they are intolerant. Because the liberal business owners I know would not mention their religion at all.
So I agree with many of the comments here; Hey, business owner! If you are a bigot, do let me know.
@Roger Moore: Red words mean danger! They would have to give up being assholes!
67.
dmsilev
@MattR: Via Greg Sergeant, even so staid a publication as Roll Call has rolled out the mockery:
House Republican leaders are now in full flinging-spaghetti-at-the-wall mode as they float ideas for a spending bill that could win over enough of their rank and file to prevent a government shutdown.
@dmsilev: It does appear that attaching a delay in health care to the debt limit is going to be old news. What are they going to do have Cruz speak for another twenty plus hours?
@dmsilev: It does appear that attaching a delay in health care to the debt limit is going to be old news. What are they going to do have Cruz speak for another twenty plus hours?
I’m not entirely sure it’s spaghetti that they’re throwing though.
I’m sure that Roll Call considers itself to be a family-friendly publication and hence unable to accurately describe what the Republicans are throwing.
Health care is now off the table and I say that even though I’m not a nazi sympathizer.
76.
Flying Squirrel Girl
o@Felinious Wench: Wow I am heartened! I’m a Dallas native but have only lived in Houston for nine months and have yet to meet any friends here.
77.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Allow me to introduce myself; I am now the Right Reverend Higgs Boson’s Mate, pastor and founder of the First Church of Kicking Conservatives in the Junk. It is our deeply held religious belief that kicking conservatives in the junk glorifies God. I am positive that they will accept the kickings out of respect for our religious principles.
Join us and you can glorify God wherever and whenever you encounter a conservative. Let me know if you, too, wish to be ordained.
“There’s a big story that hasn’t been told to the thousands and thousands of people from Oklahoma that have called my office. They haven’t been given informed consent. They’ve been sold a bill of goods,” Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla.,
“And when I have young interns and young staff in my office taking significant calls from people who’ve been misled, there’s no way you’re going to talk them out of a position that outside interest groups and a very few small number of people inside the Senate have planted.”
It’s pretty amazing they’re admitting it’s outside groups raising money on repeal of the PPACA.
David Frum needs to deliver a rant about how the base has been lied to and fleeced, again, like he did after the 2012 election. The “outside interest groups” don’t seem to be listening.
79.
Litlebritdifrnt
I cannot believe that I just read this, I really cannot believe it. I am sick
NRA leader shoots elephant for a TV show. What the fucking fuck?
80.
dmsilev
@Kay: I saw that story earlier. I kind of feel sorry for the staffers; it can’t be much fun to explain to a bunch of frothing maniacs what the difference is between a motion to proceed and a final-passage cloture vote. Then I remember that the staffers in question wanted to work for GOP Senators and the sympathy evaporates.
81.
max
@efgoldman: Yup. 100-0. And he wants to run for preznit?
That was probably the price Harry Reid extracted for Cruz’s special timing requirements.
max
[‘Kabuki Fun!’]
82.
scav
@Litlebritdifrnt: The attack on Repubbles continues. Poor dears. Can’t decide if they’ll now accuse the NRA of being closet liberals fre the affront done to the sacred totem or TeaToss him higher than Putin for taking on the lieberal GOP. (Rhino hunt should be up next then.)
NRA leader shoots elephant for a TV show. What the fucking fuck?
The real question is, how did the elephant get in his pajamas?
85.
burnspbesq
I can, sort of, forgive lay people for not understanding how the Exercise Clause really works. Lawyers who make these arguments in pleadings should get sanctioned.
David Frum needs to deliver a rant about how the base has been lied to and fleeced, again, like he did after the 2012 election. The “outside interest groups” don’t seem to be listening.
Frum is on indefinite hiatus from blogging due to family issues.
87.
Emma
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: I read the comments too, for about 2 minutes, then proceeded to nearly puke my dinner. Who is this “God who will laugh while you burn in the lake of fire?” Honest to God, these people wouldn’t recognize Jesus Christ if he was waving loaves and fishes in their faces.
…about Playboy ranking WVU the number 1 party school.
Arizona State and UCSB (a school with it’s own beach) want to have a few words with Playboy.
Although, to be fair, some tragic events in Isla Vista at some of the UCSB parties (i.e., don’t party and fall off a cliff) have probably toned things down a little. It’s still at least turned up to 11, however.
96.
Yatsuno
@beltane: Booman is missing the trees for the forest here. The NC Republicans are overreaching like mad but mostly they’re in trouble because they lied about what they were going to do when they got into office. This really is only applying to NC right now, but it could spread out from there depending on what the wingnuts attempt to pull next. Kinda cute he bothers to mention SC, who elected a deserting governour over a solid candidate based solely on party affiliation. That ain’t gonna flip any time soon.
kudos to him for backing the effort and building a winning boat and team.
Must respectfully disagree. Larry Ellison and his money have ruined the America’s Cup beyond recognition. The America’s Cup was interesting when it was the sailing equivalent of NASCAR, contested by boats (12-meters) that bore at least a superficial resemblance to something you might see in the water at the lake or beach where you spent a week or two every summer. The rule changes Ellison forced through made it like Formula 1: impossible to relate to and unwatchable.
@? Martin: Yeah, Larry. Thanks for destroying the sport. Only four teams could come up with the spectacular sums needed to compete. Next up, NFL reduced to four teams due to money issues. Americas Cup. Aptly named. Spectacular riches conquer all.
Ten dollars an hour, releasing juvenile offenders, expanding paid family leave. You’re on a bit of a roll.
Democratic governor, democratic supermajority will do that. Got the budget showdowns behind us, we’re running a surplus – the best stuff is yet to come.
@burnspbesq: I enjoyed[1] the monohulls, never even bothered watching the cats.
[1] My gfriend would have said “was freakishly obsessed.” Potato, patahto.
104.
Haydnseek
@burnspbesq: Thank you Mr. Burns. I posted my comment before reading yours. I agree wholeheartedly. The Formula 1 comparison is quite accurate.
105.
Peter
@Donut: on the contrary, that article carried a ton of water for the religious right, between claiming that this ‘crying religious exemption’ thing was new rather than something they’ve been doing since the mid-80s, to taking it at all seriously in the first place.
I hereby ordain you a minister in the First Church of Kicking Conservatives in the Junk. Because you are our first convert you shall be known hereafter to the faithful as Jebediah, the Righteous Boot of God. Go forth and do the work of the church with all your might.
107.
Suzanne
@The Dangerman: Mr. Suzanne and I met when we were in grad school at ASU. We asked Spawn the Elder where she wanted to go to college, and she said, “I don’t know. Wherever you guys went.” (She’s nine.) Mr. Suzanne and I both said NO very emphatically.
It’s just such a big state and such a trend-setter that other states will follow. They want to do it anyway. It’s ruinously expensive.
All of these laws are notable not only for their rarity — Prop 36 supporters say it was the first voter initiative since the Civil War to retroactively shorten the sentences of current prisoners — but also because they will serve as a real-world laboratory of sorts, providing useful data on the results of early prison release.
They need to be able to point to something real to get past the political risk in other states. Then it will be like a wave.
We encourage the faithful to use whatever footwear suits their needs and their style. Our long term plans include forming a youth group to be known as The Steel Toes of God.
I didn’t watch…..how would you say it went from the perspectives of (1) dispelling the image of McAuliffe as a sleazoid worthless hack that persists unto many on THIS VERY BLOG; (2) showing the viewing public what an extremist monster sickfuck Cooch actually is?
I would think Seattle would be a great place to race 12-meters. Start off Bremerton, go around the south end of Bainbridge Island, across the Sound to the Cut, finish line under the I-90 bridge.
That seems like justification for killing it, but not for hunting it. The first approach for animals that are interested in eating you should always be to try to stay away, which is exactly contrary to going out hunting for it. I may make a special exception for hunters like Jim Corbett who hunt known man-eaters.
115.
Wilson Heath
Of course gay rights trample on freedom of religion. Just like Title II of the Civil Rights Act trampled on the religious freedom of Mormons before they decided to officially easy up on non-honkies. And just like minimum wage laws trample on the freedom of religions of Jews and Christians when the Bible clearly condones slavery.
That is to say, in no way that any sane person should care a rat’s ass about.
@Kay:
I see no reason to interpret the 2012 GOP primary as anything but what it looked like on the surface: A battle to the death with the least incompetent man standing.
122.
scav
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: room also should be made for the Barefoot Badass Brigade, and I’m wondering if there’ll be a support team of Defarge Sock Knitters.
McAuliffe surprised me by being a focused debator; I was not expecting him to be good, somehow. He harped on his businessman background (in response to “you have no govt experience” questions), talked a lot about the importance of Medicaid expansion. Love letter to the Democratic party: he shat on everyone with literally — “a pox on both their houses” comment about gridlock in DC, and refused to exempt Obama (to Todd’s surprised followup).
Cuccinelli did not run from a lot of his stands — he does not support gay marriage, he thinks there are a lot of loopholes in the budget he can close (although he would not specify even one), he tried to paint himself as an advocate for the mentally ill and unjustly imprisoned. He also called people “Democrat judge” — etc — several times grates on Democrats’ ears, methinks. He made a lot of the tech council endorsement, and told us 4 times he has a plan to create 58,000 jobs but I was maybe out of the room when he described it.
McAuliffe referred to “Dorothy and I” a lot — a shout out to listening to women.
Cooch had the better final answer on “would you rename the Redskins”, which took both by surprise (and neither would reveal personal feelings on the topic).
I think the questions on gun control (McAuliffe calls it “responsible gun ownership”) were very good. McAuliffe came out strongly for background checks. I don’t recall Cooch’s exact response, although he noted McA got a horrible rating from the NRA — which won’t play that badly with people who are not gun nuts.
@burnspbesq: Whoa. Uh, no. The precursor to this class of boats (AC72) was introduced by SNG in the 2010 challenge. Yeah, Larry spent some hundreds of millions to build the USA 17, but it was under a set of rules that SNG introduced so that was the cost of levying a challenge to win the cup back. SNG could have easily eliminated the cost aspect of the challenge by stipulating the material the boat be made from. The defender has the right to propose the rules. Larry wasn’t the defender in 2010, and the Alinghi 5 that he was racing against was a carbon fiber catamaran that cost every bit as much as the USA 17 and was cost comparable with the AC-72s this year. So, the cost of entry was set long before Larry got to set the rules. And the expansion of venues and introduction of the AC-45s in the cup world series is a really good move – it means a lot more racing in much less expensive boats.
He harped on his businessman background (in response to “you have no govt experience” questions)
What the fuck is it with businessmen thinking that running a business somehow qualifies you for running everything else?
A business is not a government. A government is not a business. And thirty years of populating our government with yahoos who think “run it like a business!” is the answer to every organization’s problems doesn’t seem to have done fixed any of our problems.
Astonishing ad right after the debate: hysterical longish Citizens United paid for scream that — in one ad, mind you — decried “Chicago style”, “California style”, “Detroit style — don’t let them bankrupt Virginia”, “Hollywood style”, B&W photos of Alex Baldwin, then Michael Moore, numerous pictures of Clintons, McAuliffe preparing to air kiss Hillary, George Soros …. save Virginia!!
and this was one ad, and there was more to it. Something like Americans for the Future; it went by at hyperspeed.
That’s true, and it’s tiresome when you hear it (usually) from the GOP side.
But Cooch has used his government experience for vendettas and extremism, so he’s devalued that.
I thought McA did a good job of painting Cooch as an extremist — “even among conservative Republicans” — without coming off as mean.
Neither candidate seemed mean, very honestly. Good substantive debate, and they took it seriously.
129.
SiubhanDuinne
@Litlebritdifrnt: It’s not often that I burst into tears in public — last time was during the Gabby Giffords shooting, when NPR briefly (erroneously, obvs) reported that she had been killed. This is just fucking SICKENING. I hate these people so hard I don’t even have words.
“Vote Republican to spite Michael Moore and Alec Baldwin.”
Once again confirming that the driving force in most Republicans’ politics isn’t about how government policies affect them, but about the sneaking suspicion that somewhere in Hollywood, hiding behind his copy of the New York Times, a latte-sipping, Volvo-driving liberal elitist is laughing at them. Getting their votes is all about stirring up their rage at these people and making them think you’re the candidate that’ll piss them off most.
A battle to the death with the least incompetent man standing.
But what about the profit angle? Newt Gingrich? Come on. That was in no way “real” in the ordinary sense of “running for office.”
Usually I come down on the side of not giving them too much credit for coordination, so maybe it’s all free agents, and it isn’t “Cruz keeps Tea Party engaged, Paul keeps young men who don’t want to call themselves Republicans engaged, but person like Romney gets nom” but they’re not real candidates, either.
Since McAuliffe is the Democrat, heck I’d probably end up voting for him based on that criteria alone. And I’m not necessarily saying he, specifically, isn’t qualified for the job. I was just bitching at the automatic assumption in the political scene that doing that one job somehow qualifies you for everything else.
The ad was just about a parody. I hope to see it again, on the internet at least!!
Todd did pretty well as moderator. Fast paced; lots of questions.
He asked if either would open schools before Labor Day — Virginia opens late, the better for kids to work at amusement parks. McA gave a shout out to the tourism industry ($327 million), but was amenable to longer school hours or Saturday classes (what?). I don’t precisely recall Cooch response, but he worked in pro-education comment….
139.
SiubhanDuinne
@Suzanne: Arizona State. Is that the one in Tempe? I think my sister went there for a time.
“You don’t have to approve of things that are in the world. But you have to accept the limits to your ability to make them disappear. You probably don’t like death and taxes, either, but that doesn’t prevent them from happening.”
@Kay:
What ABOUT the profit angle? There was always more money to be made as the actual candidate. People like Santorum and Perry were seriously trying. Huge amounts of money were flung in every direction. Gingrich specifically might not have been trying very hard, but it was bizarre when he took the lead at all, and if he knew he wasn’t going to win, Adelson sure didn’t. Gingrich is the only one who has a history that suggests he even might have at some point been more competent than he acted. Romney was running against morons and lunatics. It is more believable that they really were that incompetent than that their incompetence was rigged. Romney himself was a back-bencher who was definitely not in line for the throne, but everyone else was the stinky crust on the fringe.
147.
Suzanne
@aimai: I have said something very similar, yes. It’s. not helpful to argue with her, though. Brick wall.
It’s just such a big state and such a trend-setter that other states will follow.
That cuts both ways. Tax rebellion and 3-strikes were both California innovations. But pretty much the entirety of the clean energy movement and air/water quality progress, fuel and emissions standards in the US came out of California (one of the local problems that Nixon brought to the national stage). But I think we’re getting back out in front of good issues. We’ve gotten out in front on transgender rights (after an embarrassing lag on gay rights). We’re pushing a lot of edge policies that together add up to pretty good things. If the budget keeps getting back on track (we’re still hammering education pretty badly, so it’ll take a little while) then I’m convinced we’ll see single-payer here. If that happens, that’s the ballgame nationally.
Things aren’t roses here, but everything is at least going in the right direction, and that helps enormously.
My condolences. This was a particularly brutal loss, made worse because they were well ahead in each of the races called due to wind/time. USA got very, very lucky on that.
I was just there this summer – ASU has an institute that offers a compressed summer course (two semesters’ worth in seven weeks) in various foreign languages, plus four weeks overseas if you can afford that part (I couldn’t). Enjoyed it quite a bit, actually.
That’s manageable. Start counting time when the first boat gets to the locks, pass them through together, then hold the trailing boat long enough to restore the leading boat’s advantage.
No, he expects to be appointed president. He’s deluded but not, from reports, stupid — he doesn’t want to be in the scrum of a general campaign, but if there’s A Groundswell to Expel the Commie Heathens, he’s working on having his palaquin and crown ready.
Until that Jeebus-blessed day, Ted’s garnering mucho media and tons of Teahadi donations, without doing anything he wouldn’t be doing standing in front of his bedroom mirror if he weren’t a Senator.
165.
Ripley
Is it just me or do Beau Bridges and Jeb! share an uncanny resemblance?
Yeah, Bush was cast in the lead to play Bridges in the TV biopic.
@Elizabelle:
Wow. That was straight out of a paranoid scizophrenic hillbilly’s fever dreams. The Other are coming! The Other are coming!
167.
scav
@SiubhanDuinne: Footstools clearly, to rest on after a hard day’s kicking. All called can serve.
168.
elftx
I would be inclined to tell these bigots “America, Love it or Leave it!”
169.
Jebediah
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Thank you. I solemnly vow to faithfully execute my duty whenever it arises. I shall swing my blessed right foot with all my mortal might. (And sometimes the left one, too.)
170.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Karen in GA:
Welcome, sister! We love and greatly respect our female converts. The well known phenomenon of conservatives’ blood rushing to their laps in the presence of a woman causes the ensuing kick to do double damage.
There is room for all and all are welcome to contribute according to their inclinations. A pair of bargello boot warmers would be a boon on cold nights.
175.
Jebediah
@Elizabelle:
Yeah, no way I can look.
Thanks for the condolences. Juno is still a little off kilter but probably doing better than I. What’s really off balance, though, is the relationship between Chucky and Juno. Otto was alpha and I don’t think either of these girls wants that job – but I don’t think they want the other to have it, either. I still cry a bit now and then.
176.
Suzanne
@raven: I used to teach there, in the architecture department. I work full-time now, in an office just north of the Tempe campus.
The New Mexico photography case mentioned is six years old but I invite people to read the ruling because a number of things are deliberately omitted by the writer.
1) The Hugenins are not a mom and pop operation. They are a single owner (the wife) business that employs contractors to photograph events.
2) they did not refuse to photograph the lesbian wedding, their business did.
3) the judge ruled that because they have employed contractors to photograph weddings in the past, they could have easily done so this time and didn’t.
4) New Mexico has a non discriminatory statute that covers homosexuals from being discriminated
5) Hugenins photography did not refuse the couple’s business initially, they accepted it and then when they found out it was a lesbian wedding they sent an email canceling it stating that it was because they were lesbians
6) the couple sued for very little: I think
It was just the cost of the last minute wedding photographer replacement.
When it came up a number of libertarians were outraged. When I presented these facts and asked them if I replaced “lesbians” with mixed race and miscegenation, they went silent.
179.
shortstop
@Keith G: It’s exactly because you live in Montrose that you don’t see the extent of the dilemma faced by people who live in less gay-friendly places. If the prevailing local ethos is antigay, allowing businesses to break antidiscrimination laws because it’s easier or more confidence-inducing to find a friendlier competitor (which may not even exist in many rural areas or small towns) is absolutely encouraging other businesses to disregard the law. I hear “But why can’t they just find another business?” all the time from anti-marriage equality people, who usually follow this up with whines about how people (always the same three or four examples nationwide) are “being forced” to go out of business or “losing their livelihood.”
Well, no. They chose to open businesses that accommodate the public, and by doing so, they’re subject to existing anti-discrimination laws in their respective states. When they break those laws, the consequences are on them. Should it really be up to customers to waste time and money seeking out vendors that actually deign to obey state law? In major urban areas like yours and mine, the simplest solution is to skip over the haters. That’s not always easy, nor is it a long-term solution, in other locales.
@Keith G: they as individuals could have opted out. But since they employ other photographers in their business, they as a business couldn’t refuse. My guess is it is because the lack of desire not to want to patronize the business of Birgit’s that the couple only sued for small damages. It sucks planning your wedding and then getting an email from your photographer saying they’re canceling because you are fags who are going to burn in hell (I’m exaggerating it was more like “I didn’t realize you were gay. I’m canceling because I believe what you are doing is immoral.”
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Joel
Seriously, what a load of shit. The Atlantic gets worse by the hour.
schrodinger's cat
Newest conservative hero is Putin, for being a bigot.
ruemara
Jesus Christ. Shut up, Atlantic, you’re drunk.
fuckwit
Welcome to Europe. The American Christian Fundamentalists once again lagging and biting ideas from the Islamic Fundamentalists.
Islamists have been using this line of reasoning in Europe, claiming that being forced not to discriminate is discrimination, for a while there. I don’t remember whether it has worked or not. But I guess here it comes to our shores as well.
Walker
Only if you believe laws against ritual human sacrifice also threaten freedom of religion.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Well, they’ve lost Poppy Bush:
So I guess Jebbie’s out for ’16. I’d like to say this is a sign of evolution or decency, but it just points up that the Bushes are quite possibly the political clan/sub-group the most contemptuous of the GOP base
Scotius
What a poorly thought out, poorly written piece. I suppose after allowing Megan McArdle to write there, the editors have become used to lowering their standards.
Suzanne
I have a friend who said something like this. She argued that if gay marriage were legal, her rights would be violated because she would be forced to acknowledge as fact something she didn’t believe in. This is just such utter fail in my mind. I apcan acknowledge many things to have occurred without endorsing them. LORD.
She’s LDS, too, so she won’t really debate the issue with me. More important to be polite.
Keith G
I do understand the need to confront the denial of retail service thing, but maybe because I have lived in the Montrose, the Gay neighborhood of Houston (AKA Homoville) for over two decades, I don’t get wanting to spend money (or time) on easily replicable services run by Gay hating folks.
This goes particularly when purchasing creative services that interact with moments of great emotion and/or intimacy. They can be forced to render that service, but there would be too much baggage to get their best creative effort.
Zifnab
The word “Gay” appears absolutely nowhere in the Constitution. Therefore, you should feel free to stone gays at your leisure.
Zifnab
@Keith G:
/Neighborly fist-bump
ranchandsyrup
Is the use of a cavuto mark the mark of a hack?
? Martin
@Suzanne:
Should other religions therefore be illegal? Don’t they force her to acknowledge as fact something she doesn’t believe in?
Walker
I was at a college graduation where Santorum was the speaker. This line of argument was the main topic of his graduation speech (it was a Catholic U).
Hal
@Keith G:
I can’t imagine having a photographer at my wedding if he/she was against gay marriage. I would not patronize businesses that are anti-gay if I could help it. I’m much more concerned with the broader issue of employment and making sure gay people cannot be fired simply for being gay. If the local florist wants to let their homo hating flag fly, I say go for it, and let people know just where they stand. Better to patronize supportive businesses than some bigots hiding behind their so called values.
Chris
They really do think that “freedom” means being allowed to do absolutely whatever they want with zero regard to how it affects any other people, and that unless everyone agrees to play the game they want, by the rules they want,* they’re being “oppressed.”
* Except when they decide that those rules don’t apply anymore for the moment because it would be inconvenient for them if they did. And when they decide that, everyone is also expected to go along with their suspension of the rules. And if everyone doesn’t agree to that, that, also, means they’re being oppressed.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
And because I’m a masochist, I went through the comments, so I have to ask:
How the hell is it that a former KKK member that has publicly recanted and made tangible amends personally and politically gets tarred forever as a super-mega-ultra-filthy racist, while shitstains like Strom Thurmond and Trent Lott, unabashed racist assholes, get fucking deified posthumously and repeatedly? I’m fucking sick of this shit that because Democrats back in the day were racist, it means current Democrats are the super mega-ultra racist bastards pushing neo-slavery. Because I’m seeing so much fucking more of that being peddled everywhere.
Flying Squirrel Girl
@Zifnab:Spring Branch here. Meet up!
Chris
@? Martin:
Please don’t go around asking them that. They’d probably answer “yes,” and by the end of the week that, too, would’ve become a Very Serious Article. :D
Comrade Dread
Sigh… I remember reading something about a Man who hung out with ‘sinners’ and other folks the religious people of His day found undesirable. I wonder if they’d say that He was condoning ‘sin’.
Anyway, if you find your religious principles definitively prevent you from hanging out with gay folks or taking pictures of their weddings, then there’s a simple option: Don’t be a jerk and tell them that you can’t do it because your religion says they’re going to be tortured for all eternity by a loving God. Be nice, wish them well, and explain that you have personal business on the day of their event and go out with your family to a movie or something so you’re not lying.
Or I suppose you could plaster all of your advertisements with fish and crosses. I’m guessing that most gay people aren’t going to go out of their way to provoke a fight and won’t bother calling.
All in all, I don’t see why the government should get involved in enforcing a particular religious viewpoint.
? Martin
Well, more good news from Cali. US defended America’s Cup, with 8 consecutive must-wins at the end. Unbelievable comeback by the Americans. Nice event from San Francisco. Larry Ellison may be a complete asshole, but kudos to him for backing the effort and building a winning boat and team.
shelly
According to some Colorado dude, Democrats are using Jedi mind control to make people accept gay marriage.
He also goes on about how it’s just like out of ‘Brave New World”, with Big Brother. He was later corrected that Big Brother’s in ‘1984.”
Why can’t conservatives keep their books straight? Latest example, Cruz and getting the point of ‘Green Eggs and Ham’ all wrong.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
He is so running in ’16 it isn’t funny. He had a private meeting with Ohio state legislators this week. They reportedly discussed how quickly they can privatize public education, so obviously it has to be Top Secret. God forbid they let a alternate view in there or an actual member of the public.
I can’t even imagine the fawning that was going on among those dopes. Probably fondly recalling how they used to win presidential elections. They’re not a real imaginative bunch, and they won with that other Bush, what’s his name.
fuckwit
@ranchandsyrup: It would be irresponsible not to be.
LanceThruster
Damn right it’s not trampling it.
It’s sticking it right where the sun don’t shine. About time, too!
xD
fuckwit
@Suzanne: I’m pretty sure the courts have held on several occasions that the right to discriminate is not a right. And I’d hope that the Civil War and then Brown vs Board of Ed, etc, settled that question pretty convincingly. But with this current SCOTUS, and seeing what they did to the VRA, I’d be a little nervous if they decided to take such a case on.
Citizen_X
@Flying Squirrel Girl: Heights represent!
russ
things not to wear on your arm are religion and politics.
there are others, but these two cause the most problems
Chris
@russ:
I always thought it went “religion, politics, and money.”
Though having grown up in the DC area, the “politics” part of that ban was pretty much lifted.
Keith G
@Zifnab: It’s Autumn, so aside from the all important weather change, it’s festival season in Houston. I am staggering distance from the Greek Fest – a Retsina drenched weekend.
NotMax
@Suzanne
Ask her if Starbuck’s is trampling on her rights by publicly merchandising a beverage she doesn’t believe in.
Jebediah
@Suzanne:
She isn’t being “forced to acknowledge” shit. She can go on not believing in whatever she wants. Mormonism isn’t illegal, but no one is forcing me to “acknowledge as fact” any of their beliefs.
Roger Moore
@ranchandsyrup:
You’re doing it wrong. Betteridge’s Law of Headlines states that the answer to any headline that ends in a question mark is no. If the author could convincingly answer yes, they’d make the positive statement of their point into the headline. Since the use of the Cavuto mark clearly is the mark of a hack, you should make a positive statement rather than asking a question. Also, too, by putting it that way, you’re calling yourself a hack.
? Martin
Ouch. CNN top headline right now:
“Cruz votes with Democrats”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Chris: Bob Barr IIRC once proposed a law outlawing the practice of Wicca in the armed forces, maybe other religions he disapproved of. It would surprise me not to learn he had to be persuaded from including Popery, Mohamism and Jewry.
@Kay: I’d say there’s a fifty/fifty chance Jeb Bush would be crushed under the weight of Rand/Cruzism, which would be sweet to watch– especially if Big Bad Bar is stil compost mentis enough to start insulting the Tea Baggers, or he could be the boring old grey flannel white guy I still think eventually they’ll run with.
Jebediah
@Roger Moore:
Which is why it was funny.
Villago Delenda Est
Somehow, if they’re not allowed to treat other people like shit, AND impose that treatment of others on others with the force of law, their freedom is being infringed.
I have two words for them.
FUCK YOU.
scav
How kind of their God to send down his only begotten son to be nailed up and bring the gospel, the glad tidings and cover that it was perfectly justifiable if not morally superior to be shit to the people they disagree with.
Violet
Related wingnuttery: How the hell do you deal with someone who believes that every fossil on earth is from after Noah’s flood and “no new fossils are being made.” I was in a situation where I had to be polite, so I just smiled and kept my mouth shut. But WTF?
Jade Jordan
Cole, this is a gay coverup so we don’t talk about Playboy ranking WVU the number 1 party school. No one here will be surprised, considering your antics.
Comrade Jake
Well, some people of faith are complaining about all these new-fangled gay rights laws. If some people are complaining, perhaps there’s something to this, right guys?
Jesus fucking Christ.
? Martin
@Violet:
“You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.”
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I don’t believe that. I think they keep both Rand and Cruz around for a primary to keep two parts of the base engaged then they both lose and all the Rand/Cruz supporters rally ’round the nominee. There was a lot of blather last time but Romney won, and they all voted for him.
I’m not even convinced the current Cruz Show is anything but GOP theater. The Tea Partiers need a fighter, and they’re going to give them one. It doesn’t matter if he wins. They have to keep those folks hanging in. There’s no other energy in that Party.
srv
@Citizen_X: HH is the only place for kool kids.
JPL
@Violet: I actually met a woman who after twenty years of marriage, god told her she didn’t need to tolerate more beatings. All I could think was it wouldn’t have taken god that long to tell me but also kept my mouth shut.
Violet
@Kay: Back to the future: 2016 Presidential nominees Clinton and Bush.
WereBear
@JPL: You have a kinder god.
low-tech cyclist
While I wouldn’t want to patronize a homophobic business, they still have to serve whoever comes in the door on equal terms. If they don’t like that, then they should turn themselves into a religious nonprofit; then they can serve just their own kind if they want to.
WereBear
@Violet: This time, it’s PAYBACK!
Oh, and Violet, I have implemented some of your suggestions on my web site, like taking out the word “our” from my menus & such. Appreciate your critique!
Ash Can
If your religion compels you to force everyone else to abide by its strictures whether or not they are adherents of that religion themselves, you need to rethink this whole living-in-the-USA idea. Iran or Saudi Arabia is more your speed.
Violet
@WereBear: I hope it’s not payback, because that would mean Jebbie would win. Ugh.
Glad the suggestions were helpful! Do you have an “About Us” section on your website? I always look for that to get an idea of who the person/people are who are running the website and what their qualifications are to be doing what they’re doing.
ranchandsyrup
@Roger Moore:
That shoe fits great! I’ll wear it.
Chris
@Ash Can:
I guess that explains why their missionaries are working overtime to create Christian version of that in Africa (see also “Uganda” and “Kill-the-gays bill”). As a refuge from the infidel Obama and his heretical heresy.
Villago Delenda Est
@shelly:
It’s because none of them can read. Even Dr. Seuss level books.
Felinious Wench
@Flying Squirrel Girl: Sugar Land in the house! We should totally do a meet up!
Villago Delenda Est
@Ash Can:
Exactly. If it’s theocracy you crave, get your ass to the vile shithole that is Saudi Arabia.
Trollhattan
@Jade Jordan:
Chico State must be hasing a sad. OTOH Chico isn’t West Virginnie, so there’s that.
dmsilev
@? Martin: Hah. Will Cruz denounce himself?
Ash Can
@? Martin: When M-80, Bottle Rocket and I were in San Francisco last month we saw one of the racing boats (NZ/Emirates, IIRC) practicing out on the bay. Those things can really tear.
Also too:
lulz
Trollhattan
@Violet:
Good lord….
Is it just me or do Beau Bridges and Jeb! share an uncanny resemblance?
Donut
I can’t figure out why so many of you are fixated on the headline. The piece is not favorable towards the religious right POV on the question.
Shitty headline? Yes, but read the fucking piece before pronouncing your disdain.
MattR
@dmsilev: Maybe he finally figured out what the ending of Green Eggs and Ham meant.
Nah. Who am I kidding? When your plan to fund the government without funding Obamacare includes trying to stop a bill that funds the government but not Obamacare, you are destined to go out in a blaze.
Kay
@? Martin:
This is good news from Cali, Martin.
Ten dollars an hour, releasing juvenile offenders, expanding paid family leave. You’re on a bit of a roll.
WereBear
@Violet: My Mission is…
Under the menu button marked “Mission.”
I, too, like to know who I am dealing with. Sadly, I have run across some websites who go out of their way to proclaim their particular religion… and such activity makes me feel they are intolerant. Because the liberal business owners I know would not mention their religion at all.
So I agree with many of the comments here; Hey, business owner! If you are a bigot, do let me know.
Roger Moore
@Villago Delenda Est:
That would explain their lack of familiarity with the red words in their New Testaments.
WereBear
@Roger Moore: Red words mean danger! They would have to give up being assholes!
dmsilev
@MattR: Via Greg Sergeant, even so staid a publication as Roll Call has rolled out the mockery:
( http://www.rollcall.com/news/republicans_plot_cr_endgame-227910-1.html?pos=hftxt )
I’m not entirely sure it’s spaghetti that they’re throwing though.
JPL
@dmsilev: It does appear that attaching a delay in health care to the debt limit is going to be old news. What are they going to do have Cruz speak for another twenty plus hours?
JPL
@dmsilev: It does appear that attaching a delay in health care to the debt limit is going to be old news. What are they going to do have Cruz speak for another twenty plus hours?
Roger Moore
@dmsilev:
I’m sure that Roll Call considers itself to be a family-friendly publication and hence unable to accurately describe what the Republicans are throwing.
Walker
@? Martin:
My Kiwi wife is complete distraught by this.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore:
They’d better hope that FSM doesn’t take exception to this…this…blasphemy!
beltane
Well, it looks like at least some parts of the country are sick of the GOP and their antics: http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2013/9/25/184515/899
Villago Delenda Est
@efgoldman:
muck? cluck? firetruck?
JPL
Health care is now off the table and I say that even though I’m not a nazi sympathizer.
Flying Squirrel Girl
o@Felinious Wench: Wow I am heartened! I’m a Dallas native but have only lived in Houston for nine months and have yet to meet any friends here.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Allow me to introduce myself; I am now the Right Reverend Higgs Boson’s Mate, pastor and founder of the First Church of Kicking Conservatives in the Junk. It is our deeply held religious belief that kicking conservatives in the junk glorifies God. I am positive that they will accept the kickings out of respect for our religious principles.
Join us and you can glorify God wherever and whenever you encounter a conservative. Let me know if you, too, wish to be ordained.
Kay
@dmsilev:
It’s pretty amazing they’re admitting it’s outside groups raising money on repeal of the PPACA.
David Frum needs to deliver a rant about how the base has been lied to and fleeced, again, like he did after the 2012 election. The “outside interest groups” don’t seem to be listening.
Litlebritdifrnt
I cannot believe that I just read this, I really cannot believe it. I am sick
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/25/tony-makris-elephant_n_3989341.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003
NRA leader shoots elephant for a TV show. What the fucking fuck?
dmsilev
@Kay: I saw that story earlier. I kind of feel sorry for the staffers; it can’t be much fun to explain to a bunch of frothing maniacs what the difference is between a motion to proceed and a final-passage cloture vote. Then I remember that the staffers in question wanted to work for GOP Senators and the sympathy evaporates.
max
@efgoldman: Yup. 100-0. And he wants to run for preznit?
That was probably the price Harry Reid extracted for Cruz’s special timing requirements.
max
[‘Kabuki Fun!’]
scav
@Litlebritdifrnt: The attack on Repubbles continues. Poor dears. Can’t decide if they’ll now accuse the NRA of being closet liberals fre the affront done to the sacred totem or TeaToss him higher than Putin for taking on the lieberal GOP. (Rhino hunt should be up next then.)
Roger Moore
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Unfortunately, the kind that lives in Africa, not the kind that works in DC.
Chris
@Litlebritdifrnt:
The real question is, how did the elephant get in his pajamas?
burnspbesq
I can, sort of, forgive lay people for not understanding how the Exercise Clause really works. Lawyers who make these arguments in pleadings should get sanctioned.
burnspbesq
@Kay:
Frum is on indefinite hiatus from blogging due to family issues.
Emma
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: I read the comments too, for about 2 minutes, then proceeded to nearly puke my dinner. Who is this “God who will laugh while you burn in the lake of fire?” Honest to God, these people wouldn’t recognize Jesus Christ if he was waving loaves and fishes in their faces.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@burnspbesq:
Do law schools no longer address Reynolds v. United States?
Bill E Pilgrim
@burnspbesq: Every time I read that I get this image of Richard Simmons dressed up as Santa.
Spike
@Flying Squirrel Girl:
I never lived on Spring Branch but I had kinfolks who did, and my mom was born on nearby Blair Branch.
Oh, you mean we weren’t talking about remote, obscure hollers deep in the mountains of eastern Kentucky? Never mind.
Amir Khalid
@Chris:
I know of only two good reasons for hunting and killing a wild animal:
(a) you need to eat it, or (b) it wants to eat you.
Riley's enabler
@Flying Squirrel Girl: Mo City, just a few steps ova. Yer not alone in the wastelands.
Jebediah
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Yes, please! Finally a religion that makes sense to me and really speaks to my spiritual needs!
Elizabelle
This has been a terrific governor’s debate between McAuliffe and Cuccinelli.
Sharp differences between the candidates.
The Dangerman
@Jade Jordan:
Arizona State and UCSB (a school with it’s own beach) want to have a few words with Playboy.
Although, to be fair, some tragic events in Isla Vista at some of the UCSB parties (i.e., don’t party and fall off a cliff) have probably toned things down a little. It’s still at least turned up to 11, however.
Yatsuno
@beltane: Booman is missing the trees for the forest here. The NC Republicans are overreaching like mad but mostly they’re in trouble because they lied about what they were going to do when they got into office. This really is only applying to NC right now, but it could spread out from there depending on what the wingnuts attempt to pull next. Kinda cute he bothers to mention SC, who elected a deserting governour over a solid candidate based solely on party affiliation. That ain’t gonna flip any time soon.
burnspbesq
@? Martin:
Must respectfully disagree. Larry Ellison and his money have ruined the America’s Cup beyond recognition. The America’s Cup was interesting when it was the sailing equivalent of NASCAR, contested by boats (12-meters) that bore at least a superficial resemblance to something you might see in the water at the lake or beach where you spent a week or two every summer. The rule changes Ellison forced through made it like Formula 1: impossible to relate to and unwatchable.
WereBear
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: I am so IN.
Do I get a special boot?
Haydnseek
@? Martin: Yeah, Larry. Thanks for destroying the sport. Only four teams could come up with the spectacular sums needed to compete. Next up, NFL reduced to four teams due to money issues. Americas Cup. Aptly named. Spectacular riches conquer all.
MikeJ
@Elizabelle:
Can you imagine having two candidates that wanted to outlaw blowjobs?
? Martin
@Kay:
Democratic governor, democratic supermajority will do that. Got the budget showdowns behind us, we’re running a surplus – the best stuff is yet to come.
ruemara
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Hallelujah!
MikeJ
@burnspbesq: I enjoyed[1] the monohulls, never even bothered watching the cats.
[1] My gfriend would have said “was freakishly obsessed.” Potato, patahto.
Haydnseek
@burnspbesq: Thank you Mr. Burns. I posted my comment before reading yours. I agree wholeheartedly. The Formula 1 comparison is quite accurate.
Peter
@Donut: on the contrary, that article carried a ton of water for the religious right, between claiming that this ‘crying religious exemption’ thing was new rather than something they’ve been doing since the mid-80s, to taking it at all seriously in the first place.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Jebediah:
I hereby ordain you a minister in the First Church of Kicking Conservatives in the Junk. Because you are our first convert you shall be known hereafter to the faithful as Jebediah, the Righteous Boot of God. Go forth and do the work of the church with all your might.
Suzanne
@The Dangerman: Mr. Suzanne and I met when we were in grad school at ASU. We asked Spawn the Elder where she wanted to go to college, and she said, “I don’t know. Wherever you guys went.” (She’s nine.) Mr. Suzanne and I both said NO very emphatically.
Yatsuno
@? Martin:
Still calling single payer passing by the end of 2014.
Roger Moore
@Emma:
FTFY. Their God is all about punishing the bad, not about feeding the multitude.
Kay
@? Martin:
It’s just such a big state and such a trend-setter that other states will follow. They want to do it anyway. It’s ruinously expensive.
They need to be able to point to something real to get past the political risk in other states. Then it will be like a wave.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@WereBear:
We encourage the faithful to use whatever footwear suits their needs and their style. Our long term plans include forming a youth group to be known as The Steel Toes of God.
eemom
@Elizabelle:
I didn’t watch…..how would you say it went from the perspectives of (1) dispelling the image of McAuliffe as a sleazoid worthless hack that persists unto many on THIS VERY BLOG; (2) showing the viewing public what an extremist monster sickfuck Cooch actually is?
burnspbesq
@MikeJ:
I would think Seattle would be a great place to race 12-meters. Start off Bremerton, go around the south end of Bainbridge Island, across the Sound to the Cut, finish line under the I-90 bridge.
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
That seems like justification for killing it, but not for hunting it. The first approach for animals that are interested in eating you should always be to try to stay away, which is exactly contrary to going out hunting for it. I may make a special exception for hunters like Jim Corbett who hunt known man-eaters.
Wilson Heath
Of course gay rights trample on freedom of religion. Just like Title II of the Civil Rights Act trampled on the religious freedom of Mormons before they decided to officially easy up on non-honkies. And just like minimum wage laws trample on the freedom of religions of Jews and Christians when the Bible clearly condones slavery.
That is to say, in no way that any sane person should care a rat’s ass about.
WereBear
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Pointy-toed stilettos it is then.
MikeJ
@burnspbesq: The locks would really slow things down, unless you came up with a newer boat that could leap salmon style.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@WereBear:
A fine choice and well n keeping with the church’s Doctrine of Blunt Force Trauma.
Bob In Portland
@? Martin: If only he drowned in the champagne shower.
burnspbesq
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
So the Firebaggers don’t have to give up their Birkenstocks? That’s awfully inclusive of you?
Frankensteinbeck
@Kay:
I see no reason to interpret the 2012 GOP primary as anything but what it looked like on the surface: A battle to the death with the least incompetent man standing.
scav
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: room also should be made for the Barefoot Badass Brigade, and I’m wondering if there’ll be a support team of Defarge Sock Knitters.
Elizabelle
@eemom:
McAuliffe surprised me by being a focused debator; I was not expecting him to be good, somehow. He harped on his businessman background (in response to “you have no govt experience” questions), talked a lot about the importance of Medicaid expansion. Love letter to the Democratic party: he shat on everyone with literally — “a pox on both their houses” comment about gridlock in DC, and refused to exempt Obama (to Todd’s surprised followup).
Cuccinelli did not run from a lot of his stands — he does not support gay marriage, he thinks there are a lot of loopholes in the budget he can close (although he would not specify even one), he tried to paint himself as an advocate for the mentally ill and unjustly imprisoned. He also called people “Democrat judge” — etc — several times grates on Democrats’ ears, methinks. He made a lot of the tech council endorsement, and told us 4 times he has a plan to create 58,000 jobs but I was maybe out of the room when he described it.
McAuliffe referred to “Dorothy and I” a lot — a shout out to listening to women.
Cooch had the better final answer on “would you rename the Redskins”, which took both by surprise (and neither would reveal personal feelings on the topic).
I think the questions on gun control (McAuliffe calls it “responsible gun ownership”) were very good. McAuliffe came out strongly for background checks. I don’t recall Cooch’s exact response, although he noted McA got a horrible rating from the NRA — which won’t play that badly with people who are not gun nuts.
SatanicPanic
Is disrupting fundamentalist terror plots a violation of freedom of religion? Or does it just depend on the type of fundamentalist?
? Martin
@burnspbesq: Whoa. Uh, no. The precursor to this class of boats (AC72) was introduced by SNG in the 2010 challenge. Yeah, Larry spent some hundreds of millions to build the USA 17, but it was under a set of rules that SNG introduced so that was the cost of levying a challenge to win the cup back. SNG could have easily eliminated the cost aspect of the challenge by stipulating the material the boat be made from. The defender has the right to propose the rules. Larry wasn’t the defender in 2010, and the Alinghi 5 that he was racing against was a carbon fiber catamaran that cost every bit as much as the USA 17 and was cost comparable with the AC-72s this year. So, the cost of entry was set long before Larry got to set the rules. And the expansion of venues and introduction of the AC-45s in the cup world series is a really good move – it means a lot more racing in much less expensive boats.
Chris
@Elizabelle:
What the fuck is it with businessmen thinking that running a business somehow qualifies you for running everything else?
A business is not a government. A government is not a business. And thirty years of populating our government with yahoos who think “run it like a business!” is the answer to every organization’s problems doesn’t seem to have done fixed any of our problems.
Elizabelle
@eemom:
Astonishing ad right after the debate: hysterical longish Citizens United paid for scream that — in one ad, mind you — decried “Chicago style”, “California style”, “Detroit style — don’t let them bankrupt Virginia”, “Hollywood style”, B&W photos of Alex Baldwin, then Michael Moore, numerous pictures of Clintons, McAuliffe preparing to air kiss Hillary, George Soros …. save Virginia!!
and this was one ad, and there was more to it. Something like Americans for the Future; it went by at hyperspeed.
Elizabelle
@Chris:
That’s true, and it’s tiresome when you hear it (usually) from the GOP side.
But Cooch has used his government experience for vendettas and extremism, so he’s devalued that.
I thought McA did a good job of painting Cooch as an extremist — “even among conservative Republicans” — without coming off as mean.
Neither candidate seemed mean, very honestly. Good substantive debate, and they took it seriously.
SiubhanDuinne
@Litlebritdifrnt: It’s not often that I burst into tears in public — last time was during the Gabby Giffords shooting, when NPR briefly (erroneously, obvs) reported that she had been killed. This is just fucking SICKENING. I hate these people so hard I don’t even have words.
Chris
@Elizabelle:
“Vote Republican to spite Michael Moore and Alec Baldwin.”
Once again confirming that the driving force in most Republicans’ politics isn’t about how government policies affect them, but about the sneaking suspicion that somewhere in Hollywood, hiding behind his copy of the New York Times, a latte-sipping, Volvo-driving liberal elitist is laughing at them. Getting their votes is all about stirring up their rage at these people and making them think you’re the candidate that’ll piss them off most.
Suffern ACE
@Walker: how uplifting.
SiubhanDuinne
@Amir Khalid:
You got it. Hunting for sport is just fucking depraved.
JPL
For those of us who don’t live in VA, is there an unbiased opinion on who won the debate tonight and how was chucky..
Kay
@Frankensteinbeck:
But what about the profit angle? Newt Gingrich? Come on. That was in no way “real” in the ordinary sense of “running for office.”
Usually I come down on the side of not giving them too much credit for coordination, so maybe it’s all free agents, and it isn’t “Cruz keeps Tea Party engaged, Paul keeps young men who don’t want to call themselves Republicans engaged, but person like Romney gets nom” but they’re not real candidates, either.
Chris
@Elizabelle:
Since McAuliffe is the Democrat, heck I’d probably end up voting for him based on that criteria alone. And I’m not necessarily saying he, specifically, isn’t qualified for the job. I was just bitching at the automatic assumption in the political scene that doing that one job somehow qualifies you for everything else.
Glad the debate was substantive.
Karen in GA
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: God has led me to you. I would like to help you spread the
woundsWord.Suzanne
@eemom:
Does anyone else have a hard time reading this without laughing?
Elizabelle
@Chris:
The ad was just about a parody. I hope to see it again, on the internet at least!!
Todd did pretty well as moderator. Fast paced; lots of questions.
He asked if either would open schools before Labor Day — Virginia opens late, the better for kids to work at amusement parks. McA gave a shout out to the tourism industry ($327 million), but was amenable to longer school hours or Saturday classes (what?). I don’t precisely recall Cooch response, but he worked in pro-education comment….
SiubhanDuinne
@Suzanne: Arizona State. Is that the one in Tempe? I think my sister went there for a time.
Elizabelle
@Suzanne:
Whoops. I should check the Urban Dictionary, maybe?
Anyway, it’s what people call him here. And “Terry” for McAuliffe. Not out of affection. Too many syllables in both last names.
SiubhanDuinne
@scav: I don’t know how to knit, but I do do Bargello — is there a spot for the likes of me?
Suzanne
@SiubhanDuinne: Yes, although the Tempe campus is the main one, and there are three others in the Phoenix metro.
@Elizabelle: No worries. I just LMAO when I read it.
eemom
@Elizabelle:
Thanks much! Splendiforous commentary.
Ferfuxsake — rename the Redskins as the final question? How does the emmessemm suck, let me count the ways.
aimai
@Suzanne: Have you tried saying:
“You don’t have to approve of things that are in the world. But you have to accept the limits to your ability to make them disappear. You probably don’t like death and taxes, either, but that doesn’t prevent them from happening.”
Elizabelle
@Suzanne:
I am just hoping we see a “Cooch Screwed the Pooch” headline the day after Election Day.
I don’t think he’s electable in Virginia, but McAuliffe’s voters have to turn out.
Frankensteinbeck
@Kay:
What ABOUT the profit angle? There was always more money to be made as the actual candidate. People like Santorum and Perry were seriously trying. Huge amounts of money were flung in every direction. Gingrich specifically might not have been trying very hard, but it was bizarre when he took the lead at all, and if he knew he wasn’t going to win, Adelson sure didn’t. Gingrich is the only one who has a history that suggests he even might have at some point been more competent than he acted. Romney was running against morons and lunatics. It is more believable that they really were that incompetent than that their incompetence was rigged. Romney himself was a back-bencher who was definitely not in line for the throne, but everyone else was the stinky crust on the fringe.
Suzanne
@aimai: I have said something very similar, yes. It’s. not helpful to argue with her, though. Brick wall.
? Martin
@Kay:
That cuts both ways. Tax rebellion and 3-strikes were both California innovations. But pretty much the entirety of the clean energy movement and air/water quality progress, fuel and emissions standards in the US came out of California (one of the local problems that Nixon brought to the national stage). But I think we’re getting back out in front of good issues. We’ve gotten out in front on transgender rights (after an embarrassing lag on gay rights). We’re pushing a lot of edge policies that together add up to pretty good things. If the budget keeps getting back on track (we’re still hammering education pretty badly, so it’ll take a little while) then I’m convinced we’ll see single-payer here. If that happens, that’s the ballgame nationally.
Things aren’t roses here, but everything is at least going in the right direction, and that helps enormously.
Litlebritdifrnt
@SiubhanDuinne:
I have no words, I am just sickened by this. I really cannot accept that anyone would find this okay.
Felonius Monk
@WereBear: @Higgs Boson’s Mate:
I’m in also. And if there is a special boot, I want one with big spikes or Freddy Krueger blades.
? Martin
@Walker:
My condolences. This was a particularly brutal loss, made worse because they were well ahead in each of the races called due to wind/time. USA got very, very lucky on that.
Chris
@Suzanne:
I was just there this summer – ASU has an institute that offers a compressed summer course (two semesters’ worth in seven weeks) in various foreign languages, plus four weeks overseas if you can afford that part (I couldn’t). Enjoyed it quite a bit, actually.
raven
@Suzanne: My dad worked at Paradise Valley CC.
Suzanne
@Chris: ASU has some good programs, especially at graduate level. It’s a brutal place for undergrads, though. And it’s just sooooo large.
raven
@Suzanne: Do you teach there? One of my very good friends is there.
Elizabelle
I was trying to find that frenetic ad with this search:
and damned if Daily Caller links did not pop up first.
burnspbesq
@MikeJ:
That’s manageable. Start counting time when the first boat gets to the locks, pass them through together, then hold the trailing boat long enough to restore the leading boat’s advantage.
Roger Moore
@Haydnseek:
I hate to say it, but America’s Cup racing has been for the filthy rich since the 19th Century. Read about Nathaniel Herrshoff some time.
Roger Moore
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
But are you going to produce a line of sanctified footwear designed specifically for the purpose? It seems like a good grift.
Roger Moore
@Elizabelle:
But can it top the Demon Sheep ad?
Elizabelle
Here’s that crazy ass ad that ran after the Virginia gubernatorial debate.
It is spittle-flecked.
By group called Fight for Tomorrow.
Watch out for the Gang of Five. Don’t let them Detroit Virginia. Look out for the elitist liberal media. BOO!
Elizabelle
@Roger Moore:
No, the Demon sheep was funny.
You just smell urine and desperation with this one.
Chris
@Suzanne:
Ah, well. I’m a grad, and was just visiting, so I guess that’s what did it. That, plus some quality classmates.
Anne Laurie
@efgoldman:
No, he expects to be appointed president. He’s deluded but not, from reports, stupid — he doesn’t want to be in the scrum of a general campaign, but if there’s A Groundswell to Expel the Commie Heathens, he’s working on having his palaquin and crown ready.
Until that Jeebus-blessed day, Ted’s garnering mucho media and tons of Teahadi donations, without doing anything he wouldn’t be doing standing in front of his bedroom mirror if he weren’t a Senator.
Ripley
Yeah, Bush was cast in the lead to play Bridges in the TV biopic.
How the mighty have fallen.
Frankensteinbeck
@Elizabelle:
Wow. That was straight out of a paranoid scizophrenic hillbilly’s fever dreams. The Other are coming! The Other are coming!
scav
@SiubhanDuinne: Footstools clearly, to rest on after a hard day’s kicking. All called can serve.
elftx
I would be inclined to tell these bigots “America, Love it or Leave it!”
Jebediah
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Thank you. I solemnly vow to faithfully execute my duty whenever it arises. I shall swing my blessed right foot with all my mortal might. (And sometimes the left one, too.)
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Karen in GA:
Welcome, sister! We love and greatly respect our female converts. The well known phenomenon of conservatives’ blood rushing to their laps in the presence of a woman causes the ensuing kick to do double damage.
Elizabelle
@Frankensteinbeck:
Yeah. Maybe it will get McAuliffe some votes. If that’s the company Cuccinelli keeps …
Jebediah
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Fucking disgusting. I don’t know what else to say…it’s horrifying.
Elizabelle
@Jebediah:
Yeah, nothing will get me to click on that link. Sounds too sad.
Jebediah: have meant to say: very sorry you lost your senior dog. How is the littler one doing?
Higgs Boson's Mate
@SiubhanDuinne:
There is room for all and all are welcome to contribute according to their inclinations. A pair of bargello boot warmers would be a boon on cold nights.
Jebediah
@Elizabelle:
Yeah, no way I can look.
Thanks for the condolences. Juno is still a little off kilter but probably doing better than I. What’s really off balance, though, is the relationship between Chucky and Juno. Otto was alpha and I don’t think either of these girls wants that job – but I don’t think they want the other to have it, either. I still cry a bit now and then.
Suzanne
@raven: I used to teach there, in the architecture department. I work full-time now, in an office just north of the Tempe campus.
Jay in Oregon
I hate to break it to you, but same-sex marriage does threaten religious liberty. After all, this pastor who officiated a SSM lost his job as a result.
(Hat tip to Fred Clark at Slacktivist for finding that.)
Terry Chay
The New Mexico photography case mentioned is six years old but I invite people to read the ruling because a number of things are deliberately omitted by the writer.
1) The Hugenins are not a mom and pop operation. They are a single owner (the wife) business that employs contractors to photograph events.
2) they did not refuse to photograph the lesbian wedding, their business did.
3) the judge ruled that because they have employed contractors to photograph weddings in the past, they could have easily done so this time and didn’t.
4) New Mexico has a non discriminatory statute that covers homosexuals from being discriminated
5) Hugenins photography did not refuse the couple’s business initially, they accepted it and then when they found out it was a lesbian wedding they sent an email canceling it stating that it was because they were lesbians
6) the couple sued for very little: I think
It was just the cost of the last minute wedding photographer replacement.
When it came up a number of libertarians were outraged. When I presented these facts and asked them if I replaced “lesbians” with mixed race and miscegenation, they went silent.
shortstop
@Keith G: It’s exactly because you live in Montrose that you don’t see the extent of the dilemma faced by people who live in less gay-friendly places. If the prevailing local ethos is antigay, allowing businesses to break antidiscrimination laws because it’s easier or more confidence-inducing to find a friendlier competitor (which may not even exist in many rural areas or small towns) is absolutely encouraging other businesses to disregard the law. I hear “But why can’t they just find another business?” all the time from anti-marriage equality people, who usually follow this up with whines about how people (always the same three or four examples nationwide) are “being forced” to go out of business or “losing their livelihood.”
Well, no. They chose to open businesses that accommodate the public, and by doing so, they’re subject to existing anti-discrimination laws in their respective states. When they break those laws, the consequences are on them. Should it really be up to customers to waste time and money seeking out vendors that actually deign to obey state law? In major urban areas like yours and mine, the simplest solution is to skip over the haters. That’s not always easy, nor is it a long-term solution, in other locales.
Terry Chay
@Keith G: they as individuals could have opted out. But since they employ other photographers in their business, they as a business couldn’t refuse. My guess is it is because the lack of desire not to want to patronize the business of Birgit’s that the couple only sued for small damages. It sucks planning your wedding and then getting an email from your photographer saying they’re canceling because you are fags who are going to burn in hell (I’m exaggerating it was more like “I didn’t realize you were gay. I’m canceling because I believe what you are doing is immoral.”