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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Thursday Evening Open Thread: Gleams of Light

Thursday Evening Open Thread: Gleams of Light

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nobamocare pett
(Joel Pett via GoComics.com)

Via Paul Constant, Talking Points Memo has another tile in the mosaic of GOP opposition to affordable health care:

Americans will be able to register to vote when applying for insurance through Obamacare, a White House official told TPM Tuesday, despite reports to the contrary and outcry from congressional Republicans…

And Mr. Charles P. Pierce gets an uplifting quote from “Jonathan Gruber, the MIT economist who was central to the adoption here in the Commonwealth (God save it!) of what we still like to call Romneycare”:

… “The analogy I like to use is a building that’s burning down. The number of people covered by employer-based health-care plans is dropping by a percentage point a year. The system is falling apart. So you put in a new safety net. That means a few more people are going to come in. If you’re not willing to risk making some things worse, you’re never going to make anything better. My estimate is that 80 percent of the people are not going to feel any change at all, and that 17 percent or so are going to find that things are better, and that about two or three percent will be worse off, and those are the people who benefit from the discriminatory nature of health-insurance at the present time. If health-insurance companies can’t discriminate any more, those people will have to pay a little more. When we decided that people couldn’t discriminate in what they paid black people or women any more, people had to pay more because employers couldn’t discriminate in what they paid black people and women. Was that a bad thing?…

***********
What else is on the agenda for the evening?

Reader Interactions

158Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    From my OT comment in the previous thread:

    Agence France-Presse ‏@AFP 15m
    BREAKING: Russia’s Lavrov confirms accord with US on Syria resolution

    And I love this:

    Americans will be able to register to vote when applying for insurance through Obamacare, a White House official told TPM Tuesday, despite reports to the contrary and outcry from congressional Republicans…

    ACORN lives!

  5. 5.

    jl

    ” Was that a bad thing?…”

    Weeeelllll, um…. does Gruber really want an answer on that from the teabaggers?

  7. 7.

    Villago Delenda Est

    When we decided that people couldn’t discriminate in what they paid black people or women any more, people had to pay more because employers couldn’t discriminate in what they paid black people and women. Was that a bad thing?…

    YES!

    /teatards

  10. 10.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @MattF:

    Blodget makes the crazy left-wing argument that if you don’t pay people, they can’t buy stuff.

    Well, Blodget is probably one of those crazy eggheads who have actually read The Wealth of Nations.

  11. 11.

    WereBear

    Americans will be able to register to vote when applying for insurance through Obamacare, a White House official told TPM Tuesday, despite reports to the contrary and outcry from congressional Republicans…

    This is AWESOME! Why have I not heard of it before?

    No wonder the Republicans are freaking out. I mean, more than usual. I mean, having an actual reason. That was brought about by their own stubborn stupidity. Which I know is not that unusual.

    You know what I mean.

  12. 12.

    Josie

    @Yatsuno: They are already up and running. They are training people to register voters and are having registration days in various parts of the state (not in mine yet). They could use any spare coin you could give them.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    For the WTF file (via LGF):

    Judicial Watch founder Larry Klayman wrote Monday that the president had been indicted Sept. 18 by a citizens grand jury in Ocala, Fla., and convicted by a people’s court of defrauding voters by using a false birth certificate to prove his eligibility for office.
    …
    A citizens’ judge then sentenced Obama to the maximum sentence of 10 years, Klayman wrote, and ordered the president to surrender himself into custody.
    …
    Klayman said that day could be Nov. 19, when he’s calling on “millions of Americans who have been appalled and disgusted by Obama’s criminality – his Muslim, socialist, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, anti-white, pro-illegal immigrant, pro-radical gay and lesbian agenda — among other outrages” to march on Washington and demand the president resign or face prison time

  16. 16.

    evap

    My boss gave us a briefing at work today on what happens if the gov’t shuts down on Tuesday. I’m working (temporarily) at a federal agency. Basically, we don’t get paid, we don’t go to work, we can’t log in remotely, and we can’t check our work email. I really hope it doesn’t come to this…

  17. 17.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Baud:

    I’m wondering how Klayman plans on taking Obama into custody? Will he and this “Citizens’ Grand Jury” show up at the White House with documents and weapons to enforce their will?

  18. 18.

    MattF

    @Baud: Klayman was the guy who was famous for suing everybody, including his own mother. He seems to have moved on from that, though.

  21. 21.

    jl

    @MattF: It will be easy, after Obama is impeached and convicted and thrown out of the WH for doing something, or for doing nothing, after the House GOP refuses to raise the debt limit.

    Justice will be served.

  25. 25.

    gene108

    @Baud:

    There were a bunch of these “Citizen Grand Juries” running around in 2009 and 2010 indicting Obama for existing, basically.

    I’m surprised they are still at it, as they failed so miserably for the past 4+ years.

  29. 29.

    Suffern ACE

    Btw, whatever happened to the 2 million biker march that was supposed to come to DC to beat down the million Muslim marchers?

  31. 31.

    Patricia Kayden

    @evap: Not to sound negative, but I, as a fellow federal employee, am already bracing for the shutdown. I don’t think the question is will there be a shutdown but how long will the shutdown last. Makes me wonder about the sanity of my colleagues who vote Republican given their open hatred of federal employees.

  33. 33.

    mdblanche

    The problem with that cartoon is it assumes the existence of an adult wing of the GOP able to keep the tea party in line. The adult wing has mostly died off and the parts that still exist are too disempowered to contain the tea party, in large part because they didn’t even try until way too late. I’m increasingly convinced that if the GOP does manage to avoid shutting down the government and crashing the economy in the next few weeks, the disappointed nihilists will set off a civil war in the party that will be even more damaging to them politically than the alternative.

  34. 34.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Yatsuno: I would hope that the Secret Service is questioning Klayman now and not waiting around until he and his crazy cohorts try something in November.

  35. 35.

    Yatsuno

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I don’t think the question is will there be a shutdown but how long will the shutdown last.

    My predicition: it will go past Tuesday for the CR but only by a couple of days. The debt ceiling? Who the fuck knows.

  36. 36.

    Ash Can

    @Yatsuno: It has great comedic potential on paper, but with so many mentally compromised people running around untreated and the ease with which they can acquire lethal weapons, I’m afraid that the potential for innocent people getting hurt or worse outweighs the potential for lulzors.

  37. 37.

    JGabriel

    TPM:

    Top Senate Democratic aides have no idea what Boehner has up his sleeve. “None — he throws a different flavor of spaghetti against the wall every day,” said one aide.

    Throwing spaghetti against the wall : FSM :: Worshipping Satan : Jesus

    This is why the FSM hates Boehner, and punishes him with a GOP caucus composed of crazy infantile drama queens.

    .

  38. 38.

    ruemara

    @MomSense: That’s a quote from Watterson, but the artist is just doing it in the Watterson style.

    Edited to reflect that I see I am beaten to the punch.

  39. 39.

    jl

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Let’s hope for the best. The Senate GOPers finished yelling at each other in time for Reid to schedule votes tomorrow.

    So IIRC it goes to conference (izzat right?) and the brass can cook up something that can pass both houses. Maybe the GOP will demand that this be done week by week, I think that is their current excuse for a plan.

    Reid Announces Friday Votes To Finish Up CR

    “There will be four successive votes: to end debate; waiver budget point of order; amend the House-passed bill to fund Obamacare, strip out debt limit language and move the cutoff date to Nov. 15, and then final passage of the legislation.”

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/reid-announces-friday-votes-to-finish-up-cr

  40. 40.

    Yatsuno

    @jl:

    So IIRC it goes to conference (izzat right?)

    Looks like according to the article they can skip the conference part and just take it to the floor directly after floor debate ends.

  42. 42.

    The Dangerman

    @jl:

    …and move the cutoff date to Nov. 15…

    Meaning we go through this current CR crisis, jump right into the DL crisis, and get back to another CR crisis in mid-November. Is it too early to drink heavily on the west coast?

    ETA: Maybe they’ll give us all a break and make it a 2 for 1; a DL and a CR. No, I haven’t started drinking yet.

  43. 43.

    geg6

    We are a failed nation. Jeebus, I knew it was coming the minute this asinine country voted that B-list moron puppet of the oligarchy into office in 1980. I cannot begin to describe my loathing and contempt for the traitors of the GOP, politicians and voters alike.

    I’m hunkering down and watching The Big Bang Theory and a DVRed episode of Top Chef Masters until Elementary comes on. Might as well be a couch potato while I still can, before we descend into anarchy.

  44. 44.

    dmsilev

    The White House is being uncivil again:

    “What we’re not for is negotiating with people with a bomb strapped to their chest,” Dan Pfeiffer told CNN’s Jake Tapper. “We’re not going to do that.”
    […]
    “It’s a negotiation if I’m trying to sell you my house and we are debating the price of it,” Pfeiffer said. “It is not a negotiation if I show up at your house and say give me everything inside or I’m going to burn it down. The Republicans have provided a laundry list of essentially ransom demands of things that were essentially the Romney agenda that was rejected by voters that they know can’t pass in normal circumstances. They say give us these things or we’ll blow up the economy.”

    Jake Tapper is still a tool though (“Why won’t the President roll up his sleeves and negotiate?”).

  45. 45.

    LanceThruster

    Americans will be able to register to vote when applying for insurance through Obamacare, a White House official told TPM Tuesday, despite reports to the contrary and outcry from congressional Republicans…

    Wouldn’t Goopers like this since all the people who will be supposedly hating Obamacare can ensure they’ll be able to “vote the bums out?”

  46. 46.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @dmsilev:Jake Tapper is still a tool though (“Why won’t the President roll up his sleeves and negotiate?”).

    Pretty much the same thing I heard earlier today from Kay Bailey H, the president should “stop campaigning” and come back to Washington and negotiate. And Jake Tapper probably thinks of himself as part of the liberal media because he has gay friends drive a hybrid Lexus.

    Tweety started off his show with a vigorous bothsidesdoit. also too

  47. 47.

    ? Martin

    Better:

    A reckoning of Wall Street sins is taking shape in Washington, with the Justice Department negotiating a historic fine of at least $11 billion with the banking sector’s largest and most influential firm, JPMorgan, over practices that led to the nation’s financial crisis.

    A fine of that size would be the largest by far ever imposed by the Justice Department, far above the $3 billion paid by GlaxoSmithKline in 2012 for doing unlawfully pushing anti-depressants on consumers. And a person familiar with the matter said the $11 billion represented “a floor” for what JPMorgan would ultimately pay to wipe away a bevy of ongoing civil and criminal probes into its mortgage business.

    No jail time means none of the employees will actually learn from this clusterfuck, though. But the board and shareholders will actually notice $11B…

  49. 49.

    eemom

    @Baud:

    I just finished Goodwins “Team of Rivals” and now I understand all the criticism about her.

    Can you elaborate? I haven’t read it, just curious.

  50. 50.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @dmsilev: Not yet, but I figure that’s what he’s building up to. His new “book”, god help up. Baud quoted this in the last thread, from Ezra Klein:

    Today’s “Playbook” e-mail from Politico starts with an excerpt from Chris Matthews’s new book, “Tip and the Gipper: When Politics Worked,” about the relationship between Matthews’s former boss, House Speaker Tip O’Neill (D-Mass.), and President Ronald Reagan.
    Matthews argues that O’Neill and Reagan’s relationship represented a now-gone era of bipartisan cooperation, where things got done. “During this period, government met its deadlines,” Matthews writes. “Members of Congress listened and acted. Debates led to solutions. Shutdowns were averted.”
    The government shut down seven times when O’Neill was speaker and Reagan was president. And they were real shutdowns, too

    Tweety preaching Broderism in Politico. That’s some kind of perfect storm of Village Idiocy. A Russertphoon?

  53. 53.

    dmsilev

    @geg6: Yeah, I know. And, surprise surprise, the thesis of the book is exactly the same as the blather he harps on over and over again.

    Or maybe he’s stopped; I got rid of cable a couple of years ago so I’m spared. But I kind of doubt he’s changed any.

  55. 55.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @geg6: I nominate Tweety for a very prestigious new book award that I just made up: The Goldberg:

    “a very serious, thoughtful, argument that has never been made in such detail or with such care.”[18]

  56. 56.

    geg6

    Speaking of Tweety, he just had a meltdown arguing with some teabagger rep from PA (of course). Fucking hilarious.

  57. 57.

    bemused

    I buy barilla pasta but no more. Barilla CEO said gays can eat another brand of pasta if they don’t like his straight only family ads. I’m straight but offended.

  60. 60.

    Hal

    Just think what Reagone, Tip O’Neil and Modo’s fictional President played by real ex-boyfriend Michael Douglas could do, instead of this Barry fellow, Orange Julius, and the Turtle.

  62. 62.

    Ash Can

    @bemused: I saw that. Damn, and I liked Barilla, too. Oh well. In my neck of the woods the stores carry a good half-dozen brands of pasta, most of them from Italy, so Barilla is easily replaced in my kitchen.

  63. 63.

    Yatsuno

    @bemused: This could get fun. Giada Di Laurentiis is actually pretty well-known for her respect for gay rights. She’s also one of the official spokespeople for Barilla. I wonder what her reaction will be here.

  66. 66.

    Baud

    @eemom:

    Really superficial and disjointed. Book starts out with the competition for the 1860 GOP nomination, and the formation of the cabinet. But most of the book moved from this topic to that, and no theme was ever fully developed. It was interesting only because the underlying facts are interesting. But as a work of history, it wasn’t worth the time.

  67. 67.

    bemused

    @Yatsuno:

    I didn’t know that. This could definitely be interesting.

    @Ash Can:

    Not much choice here in the local small towns, Barilla, Creamette and store brands but there is a health food store I go to every week. More expensive but better than the alternatives.

    @geg6:

    Of course he did. The ego is large.

  68. 68.

    Yatsuno

    @bemused: I wouldn’t dismiss the store bands offhand. There’s one in the QFC here (which is Kroger) that has really good quality pasta. I’m quite impressed with the quality and flavour of it. I’m only bummed because Barilla has great sales.

  71. 71.

    Baud

    Chuck Todd on Tweety just said Rand Paul wasn’t with the religious right on abortion.

    Chuck Todd is an idiot.

  72. 72.

    Chris

    @geg6:

    I don’t know if we’re a failed nation, but I’ll be damned if the folks you mentioned aren’t doing everything they can to turn us into one.

  74. 74.

    Mike in NC

    @Ash Can:

    In my neck of the woods the stores carry a good half-dozen brands of pasta, most of them from Italy, so Barilla is easily replaced in my kitchen.

    Christ, I’m showing my age now but growing up in the 60s and 70s, getting served spaghetti or ravioli at home meant it came out of a frickin’ can. Franco-American or Chef Boy-ar-di. They were vile, too. Frozen foods were pretty much limited to those horrible “TV Dinners” with fried chicken, mashed potatoes, peas and apple pie in a foil container. Fresh vegetables? As if! Canned, too, and loaded with salt and preservatives.

    How did we ever survive eating that garbage?

  75. 75.

    Yatsuno

    @Mike in NC:

    How did we ever survive eating that garbage?

    Believe it or else, it was significantly less garbage back then. Food science was a budding industry, and the research on preservatives and artifical ingredients was still in its infancy. It’s why a lot of that shit doesn’t taste like it does now.

  76. 76.

    Suffern ACE

    @Baud: Jeebus. I guess he could be against it for his own reasons, but I’m thinking he’s against it for the same reason they are.

  77. 77.

    scav

    @Mike in NC: Odd how variable that was by region. Same period, perhaps lagging a bit, but always had pasta and fresh veggies, and at best dim memories of a few of the metalled wonders and dreaded pot pies. Always wondered what happened to the grocery stores at Grandma’s at Xmas (IL) where there seemed to be nothing but potatoes.

  78. 78.

    Ash Can

    @Yatsuno: LOL! The Barilla chairman took to Twitter to apologize profusely for making an ass of himself (should have thought of that before you jammed your piede in your bocca, pal) after his interview. So who knows — maybe Giada has already been on the phone to him, prompting his groveling tweet. At any rate, though, I hope she kicks his ass all over two continents and a few islands in between.

  79. 79.

    Ash Can

    @Baud:

    Chuck Todd on Tweety just said Rand Paul wasn’t with the religious right on abortion.

    WHAT??? Good fucking grief, that boy couldn’t find his own ass if he were sitting on both hands.

  80. 80.

    Yatsuno

    @Ash Can: One of the tweets that I saw said he was just trying to show respect for traditional women’s roles. Hole. Stop. Digging. And yeah I bet she had herself a nice little convo there since Barilla is quite the cash cow for her plus she does have a large gay following.

  81. 81.

    cckids

    @Mike in NC:

    How did we ever survive eating that garbage?

    Showing my age as well, but, being as the only kids TV was on Saturday mornings, we spent TONS of time outside, even if we were only hanging around. We walked or biked to each other’s houses or the neighborhood park, and our parents didn’t hover over us like we were delicate china. There were 6 of us & it was not at all unusual for my mom to kick us out of the house & tell us not to come back in until dinnertime.

    Also too, no intertubes or video games.

  82. 82.

    Elizabelle

    Installed Adblock for Safari (thank you for suggestion, schrodinger’s cat).

    No longer seeing the boobs with the Michelle Bachmann eyes, or Newsmax headlines either.

    The horror, the horror.

  83. 83.

    Gex

    @Yatsuno: I’ll bet “I’m not a homophobe, I’m just sexist,” isn’t exactly what the PR department was hoping for.

    There’s a reason companies have PR departments, dude. You pay them, you might as well use them.

  84. 84.

    Chris

    @Baud:

    The beauty of the Pauls is that they manage to make people who span the entire spectrum believe that they’re on their side, often without even having to lie about it. Their followers cover everything from college Marxists and anarchists, to unreconstructed red state Confederates, to Very Serious Centrists always looking for a strain of Reasonable Republicans to save the country from the teabaggers.

  85. 85.

    PsiFighter37

    Republicans suck.

    Also going to goodbye drinks for one of my good friends from work, who was basically pushed out of his job and is going to Hong Kong for work.

  86. 86.

    Baud

    @Chris:

    The beauty of the Pauls is that they manage to make people who span the entire spectrum believe that they’re on their side, often without even having to lie about it.

    True, but their followers all have a common color that binds them together.

  87. 87.

    Suffern ACE

    On the Barilla thing, how did the issue even come up? It seems like an odd interview question where the response would be “No Gays in My Advertisements!”

  88. 88.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Chris Hayes is getting filibustered by some NC Congresswoman who keeps spouting talking points as facts. It’s fairly remarkable to watch.

    She says the number of uninsured people in her district is irrelevant to this discussion
    ETA: She says the Republican Study Committee has a WONDERFUL plan, but she won’t say what it is

  90. 90.

    Yatsuno

    @Gex: I think this was a personal interview (I don’t have the link handy, I read it before I left for work this morning) so the PR department may not have been involved. Which they should be fired for anyway because if your CEO speaks you clear every fucking syllable he utters.

  91. 91.

    jl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    ” she says the Republican Study Committee has a WONDERFUL plan, but she won’t say what it is ”

    Cruz already explained it in his fake filibuster: unspecified market reforms that will solve all problems. Next question?

  92. 92.

    Ash Can

    @Yatsuno: I can just hear the crash-banging of every other pasta manufacturer falling over each other to persuade her to kick Barilla to the curb and become their spokeschef. And I hope she does switch — unless this shithead steps down and is replaced by another Barilla family member who goes ahead and makes a commercial featuring a gay couple.

  93. 93.

    Suffern ACE

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, if I’m following the Republicans right, it is true. The number of unisured does not really matter. I mean, reading Ramesh Ponnuru’s idea for what should replace Obamacare, it should be tax deductions for people who buy insurance. Which of course means that everyone who buys insurance now will have a tax break. Yay, middle class tax breaks for the already insured!

  94. 94.

    jl

    @Ash Can: I don’t watch ads enough to understand what constitutes a gay versus family ad. What do two women or men have to act like to make it ‘gay’? Or is just two guys sitting down to eat something automatically gay?

    I need to watch more commercials to stay current.

    I pay zero attention to most commercials, and when I do, it has nothing to do with what is being advertised, which I never remember a few minutes after the thing is over.

    So, that is a serious, but probably ignorant question.

  95. 95.

    Suffern ACE

    @Ash Can: It’s really odd. Until today, I didn’t care less that there have never been gays or lesbians in Barilla ads, and it isn’t really an issue that affects me much as a gay consumer of pasta. But now that the Chairman has opened his trap, I want the next ten ads to feature Jane Lynch having dinner at Ricky Martin’s house.

  96. 96.

    bemused

    @Ash Can:

    How stupid are these bigoted CEO’s?! Don’t they read & learn from the previous idiots to know to keep their mouths shut no matter how they really feel? Arrogant fools.

  97. 97.

    Randy P

    @Mike in NC: Not just at home. Going out for Italian meant spaghetti and meatballs. Going out for Chinese meant chop suey, whatever that is. And that was the choice on going out.

    I would frequently remark on that to my wife while taking our kids to the Cajun place, or the Hunan place, or the Szechuan place, or the Salvadoran place, or …

  98. 98.

    raven

    @Randy P: I knew a very Italian family from Philly back in the late 70’s. Pasta was “macaroni” and sauce was “gravy”. It might not have sounded fancy but when mama cooked it up it was killer!

  101. 101.

    Yatsuno

    @Randy P:

    or the Salvadoran place

    Pupusas rule. That is all.

    @Ash Can: The bloodletting may not be happening that fast, but I can guarantee there have been phone calls. She is a proven commodity that can move product fast. Plus she learned all about business at her grandfather’s knee (he was a pasta salesman before getting into movies) so she is definitely smart enough to know when to cut Barilla off at the kneecaps. Hell I could see her pushing her own product lines harder, though those are only at Target and seem to be rather niche products right now.

  102. 102.

    Suffern ACE

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yep. I read that and its basically malpractice reform, the old “SELL ACROSS STATE LINES” and the tax break. Gosh. You know, you can get a deduction if your medical expenses are high now. Doesn’t keep you out of bankruptcy if you owe too much, but that tax deduction has really made a difference.

  104. 104.

    Yatsuno

    @Suffern ACE:

    You know, you can get a deduction if your medical expenses are high now. Doesn’t keep you out of bankruptcy if you owe too much, but that tax deduction has really made a difference.

    Only if you know how to itemize a tax return. And even then the amount claimed has to exceed the standard deduction for your household. And even THEN there is only a certaim amount you can claim based upon your AGI. I know you’re not being totally serious here, but yeah, the medical deduction is pretty luch worthless now.

  105. 105.

    Patrick

    @Suffern ACE:

    The number of unisured does not really matter. I mean, reading Ramesh Ponnuru’s idea for what should replace Obamacare, it should be tax deductions for people who buy insurance. Which of course means that everyone who buys insurance now will have a tax break. Yay, middle class tax breaks for the already insured!

    The problem with the Republicans is that they don’t have a single meaningful alternative to offer to the ACA. Has anybody heard of a single plan to deal with pre-existing conditions on the Republican side? I have followed the debate closely and haven’t seen or heard anything that work in reality. Tax deductions or credits mean absolutely nothing to a person with a pre-existing condition.

    The GOP had several years between 2000-2008 when they had total power in Washington. They could have done something about our health care crisis. They chose not to. The system was broke before the ACA. The didn’t fix it. And they sure as hell hasn’t offered a meaningful alternative to the ACA. I had to change the channel with Chris Hayes when those GOP idiots came up. Just garbage.

  106. 106.

    JPL

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I actually wrote to my rep and mentioned what a good idea.. With his tax bracket my taxes could allow the federal government to pay close to a third of his insurance. Of course I also wrote that I feel poorly about the family of four who earns fifty thousand but my tax dollar only spreads so far. I haven’t heard back.

  107. 107.

    scav

    @Randy P: My mother remembers her first pizza ever and it was when she was in 6th grade. They drove all the way into Blue Island from the suburbs for the experience.

  108. 108.

    Mike in NC

    @jl: Nixon had a “secret” plan to end the war in Vietnam. Only it was a lie that people were all too happy to swallow.

  111. 111.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Yatsuno: When I was age 5-11 (1947-53), I spent all my summers boarded with a family who lived on a small farm in Michigan. Yes, I did learn how to ride a horse, gather eggs from the chicken coop, use a three-seater outside toilet, churn butter, and many other rural activities — but the one chore I had that astonishes me in retrospect (mainly because I’m alive to tell the story) is that while the six cows were being milked, my job was to spray DDT from a rusty old canister wherever I saw flies. The flies mostly hovered above the shit trough, perilously close to the milk buckets (this was long before milking machines, or at least this farm always milked by hand, into buckets). I shudder to think how much DDT we all ingested, year after year.

    When i was back home in my nice Chicago suburb, I ate Chef Boy-Ar-Dee and Franco-American canned stuff, too. We considered those foods very exotic, foreign, and ethnic (though we didn’t know that word).

  112. 112.

    raven

    @efgoldman: South Philly, Two Street. My buddy played football at Illinois and his folks would drive all the way for home games. She’s cook the “gravy” with meatballs, bracoile, chicken, sausage and then do the macaroni fresh. Followed up with Tasty Cakes and Brioski (sp)!

  115. 115.

    Mike in NC

    @efgoldman: Well I lived in Newport for 3+ years, so there was significantly more Portugese influence than Italian (i.e., Providence) but I learned to love both cuisines.

  117. 117.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Ash Can:

    Good fucking grief, that boy couldn’t find his own ass if he were sitting on both hands.

    Which boy you talkin’ ’bout? Chucky, Tweety, or Randy?

  118. 118.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    as best as I can understand, the Republican response to pre-existing condidtion is “bootstraps arglebarglemarketplace”

    But the bill could set Republicans up for political attacks by scrapping popular provisions in ObamaCare like a prohibition on denying health insurance to people with pre-existing medical conditions.
    “We work with the existing state high-risk pools that are out there,” Scalise said in regards to people with pre-existing conditions. The bill provides $25 billion over 10 years to enhance the state pools, “so an individual with pre-existing conditions can go and buy at market rates.” […]
    Roe said Scalise came to him a few months ago with a set of marching orders. “He said you can’t have any mandates in this bill. You can’t raise taxes. You’ve got to reform the tax code, but there can’t be any subsidies involved,” Roe recalled. “That’s pretty limited in what we can do.

    Also, nothing about recission or lifetime limits as far as I can see. Roger Ebert ran through two health insurance policies– his newspaper’s and IIRC the writers’ guild– with his cancer, but he was eligible for medicare when the second one ran out.
    Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/322955-conservatives-unveil-obamacare-replacement#ixzz2g3AHgTvB

  120. 120.

    Suffern ACE

    @Yatsuno: Yep. And guess what? When people are sick, they often earn less than they did when they were healthy. Ergo, the amount that they are eligible to deduct goes down the sicker and less able to work that they are! It’s a solution that really gets to the heart of the problem!

  121. 121.

    Anne Laurie

    @scav:

    My mother remembers her first pizza ever and it was when she was in 6th grade.

    The Spousal Unit remembers the excitement when his upper-lower-Michigan hometown got its first “foreign” restaurant… yes, a pizza shop. And that was in 1966!

  123. 123.

    Chris

    Since it’s an Open Thread – in class, professor gets started on “Albion’s Seed.”

    I really need to read that book someday.

  125. 125.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Chris: I read it years and years ago. It still lives on a shelf someplace. I may read it again one of these days.

    Or maybe not. Haven’t decided.

  126. 126.

    Suffern ACE

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yep. When I was a wee lad, we used to go to the farm for planting season. My Mom could drive the tractor while my grandparents would plant the tobacco. And becaus there was no one to watch after my sister and I, we got to ride along on the fertizler/pesticide tank. The blanket they covered it with for the most part didn’t get too wet.

  127. 127.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Anne Laurie:

    T

    he Spousal Unit remembers the excitement when his upper-lower-Michigan hometown got its first “foreign” restaurant… yes, a pizza shop. And that was in 1966!

    I vividly remember going to a sophomore-in-high-school dance (so, 1957-58) and after the dance a gang of us went to a pizza parlor. Yes, it was foreign and exotic. Chef Boy-Ar-Dee just couldn’t compete after that first exposure to pepperoni slices.

  128. 128.

    WereBear

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That is because they aren’t trying to save people’s lives, silly!

    The bill from the Republican Study Committee would fully repeal the 2010 law and replace it with an expansion of health savings accounts (so you have to have the money first,) medical liability reform (if the doctor damages you, tough!) and the elimination of restrictions on purchasing insurance across state lines (so it’s even easier to get a crappy policy.)

    The goals are entirely different from the rest of us, looks like.

  131. 131.

    Mike in NC

    @raven: Once upon a time New Bedford and Fall River were known for their huge fishing fleets.

    See “Captains Courageous” starring Spencer Tracy.

  132. 132.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @scav:

    The problem being of course that SYG only applies to white, male, Christian, straights.

    Any other group has no right to stand their ground. They do have a right to be shot by white, male, Christian, straights who feel “threatened” by them with no consequence for the shooter, however.

  133. 133.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @LanceThruster:

    Wouldn’t Goopers like this since all the people who will be supposedly hating Obamacare can ensure they’ll be able to “vote the bums out?”

    That’s their problem. Those who sign up for Obamacare will love it, and remember who brought it to them.

  134. 134.

    raven

    @Mike in NC: Yea we watched that recently. I just got On the Wind: The Marine Photographs of Norman Fortier about the area. I was also very interested to learn about the folks from Cape Verde who came to work in the whaling industry.

  135. 135.

    Patrick

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    “We work with the existing state high-risk pools that are out there,” Scalise said in regards to people with pre-existing conditions. The bill provides $25 billion over 10 years to enhance the state pools, “so an individual with pre-existing conditions can go and buy at market rates.” […]
    Roe said Scalise came to him a few months ago with a set of marching orders. “He said you can’t have any mandates in this bill. You can’t raise taxes. You’ve got to reform the tax code, but there can’t be any subsidies involved,” Roe recalled. “That’s pretty limited in what we can do. Also, nothing about recission or lifetime limits as far as I can see.

    That’s their alternative to the ACA? And they are concerned about tyranny/socialism from the ACA? Color me unimpressed. I think I speak for most people when I say give me the ACA anyday if that’s their alternative…

  136. 136.

    jl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That;s why stopping the ACA from getting started is so important. Once voters get familiar with the new system, well over 90 percent will be getting the same or better deal, as the excerpt of Gruber’s interview pointed out. People will appreciate the increased transparency of prices and benefits, and ability to shop, regardless of their health status.

    Worse, they will have sufficient understanding to start seeing through GOP gafflebag. BS like “no exclusions for pre-existing conditions BS BS BS BS (cough)… for those continuously covered… (cough) BS BS BS…

    They will understand the implications of getting shoved into a state high risk pool that will then be then be at the mercy of state governments for benefit design, cherry picked over for the less or only temporaily ill, or lose healthier members to group policies when they get emplloyed, and then the remaining suckers will pay ‘market rates; for that very high risk pool. In other words, they effectively lose insurance that will keep them from being wiped out, and maybe keep them from living as long as they would otherwise.

    So, the GOP is right about one thing, they have to stop the ACA freight train right now.

    Sort of like the Battle of Atlanta. Time is running out and Johnston just got replaced by Hood.

  140. 140.

    Yatsuno

    @IowaOldLady:

    The Rs are going to lose have already lost on the ACA

    This is just the backlash of their loss. Twelve stages of grief and all that. Though they might need a few extra.

  141. 141.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @WereBear:

    Their goals have nothing to do with health care, per se. Their goals are to protect the parasite health “insurance” industry at all costs.

  142. 142.

    raven

    @Baud: It’s only a preview. It’s actually good. They tell the stories of a cow inseminator, septic tank cleaners and a mortician.

  143. 143.

    The Pale Scot

    @scav:

    Always wondered what happened to the grocery stores at Grandma’s at Xmas (IL) where there seemed to be nothing but potatoes.

    Yep, growing up in the swirl of Euro culture of Bayonne NJ meant dragging the two wheeled cart behind nana every weekend to go to the German butcher, the Italian and Portuguese bakeries and the Italian green grocer if the supermarket were too expensive. And hoping someone would have traveled up town to Judicke’s Bakery for sprinkled chocolate covered donuts (Gulp).

  145. 145.

    MikeJ

    @Yatsuno:

    This is just the backlash of their loss. Twelve stages of grief and all that. Though they might need a few extra.

    The Republican Kübler-Ross is:
    Denial
    Anger
    Anger
    Anger
    Anger

  147. 147.

    Suffern ACE

    @Villago Delenda Est: And make certain no one starts asking “Why are we paying so much.” Especially not “Why are we paying so much more than Canadians who appear to be robust and hearty people.”

    I’m surprised they haven’t made their goal invading Canada to rescue them from socialism and take their Cuban cigars.

  148. 148.

    Mike in NC

    @efgoldman: I worked a job in Cambridge after I got out of college, and soon found a bagel bakery in Brookline that I absolutely had to visit once a week on my commutes.

  150. 150.

    Villago Delenda Est

    OK, this is hilarious. (via Powder Blue Satan)

    Closing sentence:

    When will Alan Simpson apologize for making Lynne Cheney make up lies to cover her lies? How about never? Is never good for you?

  151. 151.

    Matt McIrvin

    Americans will be able to register to vote when applying for insurance through Obamacare

    I was going to have a good chortle and say “way to stick in the knife and twist”, but actually they’re just following a law that’s been around since 1993. They have to do it!

  152. 152.

    tybee

    @tybee:
    he had annoyed his LT and was assigned to burn the barrels.
    for his first time.
    he’d been told to stack them and pour some fuel into each one and then light them.
    no one told him to use diesel.
    he said burning shit stays airborne for a while.
    he learned a lot about burning the shitters for the next week or so.
    he also said getting back into the bush was a relief.
    and less hazardous.

  156. 156.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @SiubhanDuinne: and @efgoldman:
    Here is the thing that is forgotten about DDT, and paradoxically is why it caused so much damage – DDT is non-toxic to humans. VERY non-toxic. You will poison yourself faster on fruit juice than DDT. People bathed in it. People went outdoors and inhaled it. It couldn’t hurt you, but it really killed bugs dead, and folks were grateful for that. They got so grateful that they abandoned all traditional farming techniques and replaced them with piles and piles of DDT.

    …and then the other shoe dropped. DDT is indeed non-toxic to humans, but it lasts. Oh, does it last. Most insecticides rot in a few days. DDT hangs around for decades, and it builds up in fatty tissues, and it gets passed up the food chain and concentrated in ‘higher’ lifeforms, until it was poisoning birds and appearing in mothers’ milk. It took a very long-term exposure to lots of DDT to make it harmful to anything but bugs, but DDT lasts so long you were guaranteed that long-term exposure to lots of it.

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    Honest, I think protecting the insurance industry is secondary at best. They’re just furious that their whitest, Christianist, cowboyest president was a humiliating failure, but the black man who replaced him is a huge success. It used to be about plutocracy. Now it’s just about hate.

  157. 157.

    Jebediah, the Righteous Boot of God

    @Ash Can:

    who goes ahead and makes a commercial featuring a gay couple.

    I vote for: two couples having dinner together in one couple’s home. Now it’s time to go home and whattayaknow! it’s the two dudes that are a couple, as are the two ladies. Haha homophobe pasta lovers! Snuck that up on you!

  158. 158.

    Jebediah, the Righteous Boot of God

    @Yatsuno:

    This is just the backlash of their loss. Twelve stages of grief and all that. Though they might need a few extra.

    Thirteenth stage is a divinely-ordained kick in the junk.
    So let thine foot be blessed; so let thine foot swing.

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