Amy Kremer, Chair of the Tea Party Express went on MSNBC’s Chris Jansing to drop their interpretation of facts about the government shutdown and the Affordable Care Act.
When asked about the Republican’s refusals to negotiate—18 times!—Kremer said this:
The fact is that we were going to end up here because President Obama and Harry Reid, I’m not sure which one wears the pants in the family (um, that’s misogynist), but they wanted a shutdown. They started talking about it July 26th, threatening a shutdown if we did not roll back the sequester cuts. (Actually, it’s the Republicans have threatened a shutdown again, and again, and again.) . . . He should get to the negotiating table and Harry Reid should get to the negotiating table and so should the Republicans. They all need to come together, but you’re — I don’t care what they negotiate, the american people don’t want this law . . .
That was a lot of explanation, when really, Republicans just wanna:
Also on today’s #TWiBRadio, the cultural history of racial differences between South Africa and the United States and to alleviate government shutdown stress, one retailer is offering furloughed employees a special toy for their down time.
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And this morning on #amTWiB, #TheMorningCrew discussed charter schools getting free rent, how to deal with sex offenders, and school children prefer pink slime to real meat.
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And in case you missed it, while on #TWiBHiatus, we broadcast from my magical North Berkeley kitchen. Turns out sunshine and farming doesn’t actually solve racism:
Randy P
Is there even a kernel of truth in that? Did either the President or Harry Reid ever threaten a shutdown?
I kind of doubt it, since neither one actually has any power to do so. Notice which body of which branch of government actually had the power to shut the government down.
So did somebody actually say something on July 26th? What?
Patricia Kayden
Kremer is trying to nullify the last 2 elections. T’Baggers are nothing but terrorists. Glad to see President Obama standing firmly against “negotiating” with them.
lamh36
Gypsy Howell
@lamh36:
Just saw same on NYT. good news I hope. Will she be confirmed?
Gex
I suspect whoever is doing this is a Yale student who will go on to serve in the House as a Republican.
muricafukyea
Chuck ‘not my job to report’ Todd: “Both sides do it”
The prophet Nostradumbass
@lamh36: another firebagger taking point, down the drain.
Anna in PDX
Thanks for the transcript. Why can’t wingnuts say two or three sentences without something offensive? They seem to delight in being offensive (I am referring to the “who wears the pants” comment). Geez, I think 12-year-olds are less deliberate about being jerks no matter what the subject is.
Crusty Dem
@lamh36: woot!
Ahem. That is all.
gogol's wife
I am so depressed about what’s happening to this country. This is a giant disaster, and outside of BJ, I don’t see anyone paying any attention. Then I look at that Newsmax thing and see “Scarborough to Reid: Do Your Job.”
This is so horrifying, depressing, scary, etc., etc., etc. What can possibly happen to make it stop?
Davis X. Machina
What’s licit when you’re trying to overthrow an illegitimate government? What are the norms when you’re fighting an occupying power? What goals do you share with your opponents in a Manichaean struggle between ultimate good and evil?
Cold civil war — but no shooting, just yet. Or to put it another way, we’ve reached the Masada phase of party politics.
Ridnik Chrome
I can’t believe that goofball is married to Joanna Newsom…
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36: @Gypsy Howell:
I was just coming over to mention the same news. I think, I hope, it’s good news and that Yellin will be confirmed.
raven
Oh god the chicken little contingent is out in force!
beltane
@Davis X. Machina: If this means the Republicans will be wandering around homeless for 2,000 years I’m perfectly OK with it.
Baud
@raven:
Where?
Ash Can
And in other news, it appears that the leader of the patriotic truckers who were going to slow down traffic on the Beltway and citizen-arrest Dem legislators was just funnin’ us all along. I wonder who he heard from first, his boss or the FBI. (H/t LGF)
Amir Khalid
@Gex:
About a decade ago, at the premises of the newspaper where I worked, some anonymous person would do No. 2 in the men’s room and not flush afterwards. (He was never caught.) My colleagues called him The Phantom Anus.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Randy P: Who cares whether it is true that they did say it? Given that they accepted a continuing resolution that didn’t roll back the sequester they weren’t very serious about it if they did say it.
raven
@Baud: Rightcheer!
Patrick
I do hope the Dems are taking notes for the next time they don’t have the White House but at least the House or 40 Seats in the Senate. The GOP has now set a precedent. If there is a law the Dems don’t like, let’s shut the whole thing down.
Immigration reform, overturn Citizens Utd, double corp taxes, single-payer etc…
Baud
@raven:
Been tuning in and out. Haven’t noticed. I thought most folks here were supportive of the Dem stance.
raven
@Baud: Oh for sure but WE”RE ALL DOOMED!!!
Suffern ACE
Well on a positive note, the Murdoch Post cover page headline this morning was the revelation that Johnny Carson once pulled a gun on his wife when he found out she was having an affair.
If the right wing outrage paper decides to bump its debt ceiling coverage for decades old stories about dead people who left TV 20 yeas ago, I think it’s a sign that they’ve got no good news to report to their readers. And no good news for them probably means good news for me.
Elie
@gogol’s wife:
This is a good thing… its been building for a while. I was depressed and anxious a couple of days ago, but now its becoming quite clear to all what is happening and what is at stake and who is doing it. Its war by other means and I am glad that its being called by its name more and more often.. Its nothing but an attempted coup by money over citizen power and the electoral process. We need to keep calling it by what it is and who is doing it — Koch brothers own these assholes who are pimping their interests. Call.It.Out.
Davis X. Machina
@raven: I’m looking forward to the international system of banking and trade to go clonic again.
Try and get another bailout through this Congress.
David Koch
@lamh36: yet more evidence of his sexism.
David Koch
Matthews says Aqua Buddha is running around Capitol Hill telling congress critters a default won’t hurt the economy.
Why did self described “liberals” swoon over this loon?
Elie
@Patrick:
If they win this, there won’t be another time like that. Get that straight. Its an attempt to overturn current governing structure and the Constitution. Clear your mind of “next time”. If this is successful (and I don’t mean necessarily going over the cliff per se), but if we capitulate to this blatant coercion outside the electoral process, nothing “next” will be predictable except chaos.
If we are into the next week on this, brothers and sisters, we MUST get into the streets. No choice. Either that or take notes on the sidelines as these beasts take our democracy away and convert it to their own ends.
My husband asked if I was ready to leave my job and go to Washington to march on it and I thought about it a second and said –“yes” — yes, I am…
Davis X. Machina
@David Koch: Drones.
Baud
@raven:
I’m feeling pretty good. I thought we liberals wanted a fight.
Violet
NBC Nightly News said that banks are creating “war rooms” in case of a dramatic sell off in the markets, if a default is allowed to happen.
They also said that “according to their math” the votes are there for a clean bill to pass the House, even though Boehner says they’re not. Nice to see them throw Boehner under the bus. It was Chuck Toddler’s report.
Belafon
@raven: Where?
Patrick
@Elie:
While you right, my point is that the Dems need to do a much better job in showing that if the GOP gets away with this, then the Dems could do the same thing. And then, why even have elections?
beltane
@Violet: Boehner’s about to be thrown under several buses. Anyone with a bus is going to throw him under it. If you have your own bus you might want to join in the fun.
David Koch
–
Cacti
@David Koch:
He’s white.
dmsilev
@beltane: If/when Boehner and the rest of the GOP leadership ‘cave’ (i.e. allow a vote on a clean CR and clean debt ceiling increase), they’ll be picking knives out of their backs within about 5 seconds.
Davis X. Machina
@beltane: We assume this would be a good thing, but every Danton has his Robespierre.
Tommy
@Patrick: I’ve been voting since 1988. I clearly didn’t vote for either Bush, but I do think elections matter. I wasn’t running around saying lets blow shit up cause my party lost an election. In fact I kind of hoped their policies worked cause I live in this nation and I want things run well.
Eric U.
@Randy P: my understanding is that the “clean” continuing resolution that passed the Senate and which would certainly be signed by Obama codifies the sequestration cuts. So it’s a little ridiculous to assert that Reid and Obama will shut down the government over the sequestration cuts. They have given up on that.
WereBear
@beltane: And no one this week has deserved it more. Putting the entire world on the brink of disaster just for your own ego?
Busses are getting off light.
Elie
@Patrick:
I think that the only thing “missing” — but is starting to build — is a full throated scream from our citizens about what is being done. Right now, there are a lot of euphemisms and talk of games — not of theft and insurrection.. I agree that this should be said — or rather screamed. But in its time.. and the time is approaching. They must bear the full load of responsibility for this.. the full load of calling it what it is.. Many are trying to have it both ways. That must be stopped cold. But that language has its timing and must be placed on the weakest links at the right time by the President. This is a powerful tool that must be wielded skillfully and part of that skill is the timing.
A small part of me still hopes that this is some extreme outpost of “business as usual”, though most of me believes that has passed.
Tommy
@Eric U.: Well we have lost that fight IMHO. I keep saying this, my brother’s wife works at TRANSCOM (United States Transportation Command). She is a civilian and went to a four day work week this summer over the sequester. She kind of has an important job, delivering supplies to our military.
Chyron HR
Remember when it was the #Obamaquester, because Obama loves it so darned much? Good times.
Baud
Oh good. I was worried Matthews would forget to mention his book about Reagan.
Roger Moore
@lamh36:
Which will give the Republicans a convenient shiny object to point to when the markets start to go crazy over the shutdown and threat of default.
raven
@Tommy: Ass and trash missions! Used to be MATS!
pseudonymous in nc
Teabagger groups, aka “community care for the mentally ill.”
beltane
@Roger Moore: I’m sure the reaction to Yellin’s nomination will dovetail nicely with the GOP’s outreach effort to attract women.
chopper
@Patricia Kayden:
it isn’t just relitigating the last two elections. the insider view in the GOP is that default is their shot at forcing a balanced budget (because whenever a dem gets elected, suddenly a balanced budget is super important).
by refusing to raise the debt ceiling, the government will no longer be allowed to be in deficit. now, current debt will have to be serviced but more than enough tax revenue comes in to cover that. as to appropriations already passed by congress that have to be covered, the president won’t have the statutory authority to pick and choose what gets paid and what doesn’t – the GOP will impeach him if he starts to do that.
of course, i’m sure they won’t if he just has to treasury refuse to cut checks what they want cut, like welfare, food stamps, the EPA, depts of energy, education, any and all regulating bodies, federal employee pay and benefits (excepting congress of course), obamacare, etc etc. i’m sure they have a nice handy-dandy list prepared.
blammo – instant balanced budget. of course, we go into a huge recession, but that’s just a minor detail.
jl
@Roger Moore: Should we look for more GOP outreach wrt Yellen, like some GOPer saying “Well, the real men in the markets know women can’t handle money” Guess we should keep a watch out for something like that.
Never heard of Amy Kramer before. She makes no sense when she talks. Glad the interviewer got a few words in edgewise to correct Kramer’s falsehoods, misdirections and incoherence.
What is the constant refrain about Obama lying about being able to keep your plan or your doctor? There is nothing in the ACA that forces anyone to change. An employer might change policies because of the ACA that changes your network, but that happened all the time anyway. Heck, it happened all the time when insurance companies played network games with medical groups, hospitals, doctors, pharmacies, therapists, drugs they’d cover, everything.
JPL
Chris Hayes is yelling… I didn’t even know Chris Hayes could yell.
Tommy
@Roger Moore: I like to think I know what the Fed does but honestly I don’t. As best I can tell many of those on Wall Street like Yellen. Also many liberals I respect like her. That seems to be a rare thing making me think she is good at her job.
Spaghetti Lee
Why are these Tea Party assholes always like “The American People don’t want this, The American People don’t want that.” Fuck you asshole, you don’t speak for me. You don’t speak for America, either. You speak for Charlie Koch’s hedge fund and the voices in Michele Bachmann’s head.
jl
@beltane: beat me to it. It will be interesting how Yellen is treated by the GOPers. Will it be just as bad, worse or a lot worse than their disrespect of Peter Diamond who was no good because one of his fields was “yeeewwwwwww’ labor ecoomics?
Ash Can
@Tommy: Comparing the GOP’s current antics to the election of 2000 is what gets me. The Supreme Court halted the vote counting in Florida and declared W the winner. That was the ballgame. All avenues of appeal had been exhausted, and it was up to Al Gore and all of us who voted for him — a slim majority of voters — to suck it up and deal with it. And we fucking did. None of us were happy about it, and we still aren’t to this day. But too bad; we had to be grownups about it and accept it. And then we had to watch the fucker crash the country.
Flash forward 12 years — now the other party and its supporters not only can’t accept and deal with the results of the same kind of election, they can’t accept them even when they indicate a clear-cut win for the other guy, with a substantial majority of voters backing him. And this is after he’s already established a track record of favoring regulations that actually and directly benefit large segments of the population coast-to-coast. These people and their pols make themselves look worse and worse every time they open their mouths. After having to accept the results of lawful political process in 2000, damned right I’m going to look down on these shitheads for not doing the same.
Suffern ACE
@chopper: and then when he finally has to get a budget passed, they’ll demand a tax cut, putting us through this all again.
TAPX486
Robert Costa, who is well connect on the GOP side, is telling Chris Hayes that the ping end game is a short term extension of the cr/debt limit (say 6 weeks) with an understanding that negotiations on the GOP wish list will begin immediately thereafter. He also said that on the GOP side they really really do believe all the bad stuff about Obamacare
Two simple questions:
1. Do the Democrats get a chance to present their shopping list?
2. Why does anyone think this will be resolved in 6 weeks? They have been kicking this can down the road since the debt limit war in 2011.
jl
@Tommy: A mundane daily thing that the Fed does is keep the financial payment system both liquid and sound. They will be able to use that as an excuse to help out a lot keeping US finances afloat if the House GOP refuses to increase debt limit.
The Fed has been practicing using non-Treasury securities to do their market operations (edit: since the last debt limit nonsense in 2011), and actually the original 1913 plan was to use mostly private securities, rather than Treasuries. Two world wars’ worth of gov debt changed that plan.
The performance of the Fed will be crucial in how the US economy withstands the first few days of a binding debt limit.
gogol's wife
@Ash Can:
Well said.
Davis X. Machina
@chopper: Once you fund defense, homeland security, statutory entitlements, federal pensions including retired military, and interest on prior debt, there’s nothing left. You’d have to zero out most of what we think of as ‘the government’. Not cut — reduce to zero — eliminate.
The Dangerman
@chopper:
That’s how I see it.
No, it’s instant Depression, accelerated by the fact that we are headed now into the Winter Holidays, which is MAJOR to a lot of businesses. I suppose there is an upside that there won’t be any shooting massacres in shopping malls as no one will be shopping.
WereBear
I feel the same way. The election was outright stolen. But from Gore on down, respect for the process and trust in the institutions, even if misplaced, would keep the country from tearing itself apart.
It’s like these Republicans have a split ego; that mental dysfunction where one minute you are the most wonderful person in the world, but one mistake and now you are the most terrible person in the world.
They only love the country when it is obedient to their wishes.
Tommy
@Ash Can: Amen. You said it better then me. We acted like grownups. Just like you I didn’t like what happened but I wasn’t running around saying lets blow up the government. I like you will look down on all these people. Elections matter, and pretty sure I first heard that from a Republican. And we won, get over it! Act like an adult.
Davis X. Machina
@jl:
She’ll be filibustered. More interesting is how she’ll be treated by progressives on the off-chance she’s actually confirmed. When six months pass, and she is revealed as just another central banker, just not quite as unmoved by the plight of the working man as her predecessors, and hasn’t called on us to expropriate the expropriators, hasn’t seized the commanding heights of the economy in the name of the workers, who will be first to announce she sold us out?
jl
@TAPX486:
Within six weeks I think the ACA exchange sign up process will be working smoothly and millions of people will have some kind of good and reliable health insurance. Those with employer insurance will not sense the end of America as we know it. They will hear lots of happy stories from those they know. Those covered by employer insurance will be checking out price of getting good reliable insurance and feeling happy and secure if they lose their jobs, decide to move, or start a business.
The House teabagger caucus will scream bloody murder if negotiations consist of anything but surrendering to all of their demands, and repealing or delaying the ACA will be at the top of the list.
I think Obama will roll out some grand debt bargain hoo haa, which will not be 100 percent of GOP demands and be turned down. I think Boehner once said publicly that getting 98 percent of what he wanted was not enough, so we only have to check out whether getting 99 percent is good enough.
When the public sees that the GOP is going to drag the country through another round of this, they will be even more unpopular, especially after the ACA roll out gets going.
So, I hope Costa is right, since I think that would be the endgame in a huge GOP loss on policy and in politics.
Patrick
@TAPX486:
I have never understood their opposition to it other than it is a black Democrat who is behind it.
Most Americans have had health insurance for years. The ACA doesn’t change that. It does make it mandatory. So what? Are these tea idiots so irresponsible that they wouldn’t have health insurance otherwise? I just don’t get it.
beltane
@Davis X. Machina: There are people at GOS already calling Yellen “Larry Summers in a dress”.
Spaghetti Lee
@TAPX486:
An ‘understanding’. Oh, how rich. I love that these guys think Obama’s the antichrist but still have faith that he’ll lick their boots and act like their personal wish-granting genie because of an ‘understanding.’
If I were Obama, I’d take the offer, then when they come and say “Remember our little gentleman’s agreement about dismantling SS and Medicare?” say “Fuck you, suckers. I got what I wanted out of you, now get outta my sight.” Of course, they’ll whine and moan about Obama REFOOZING 2 COMPERMISE but hell, they’re doing that now. They’ll never stop lying about him and attacking him, might as well run with that.
Mary G
Been out doing things today, so I apologize if this has been posted already:
Statistics are out on first week of Obamacare in California.
Republicans’ worst nightmare…coming TRUE!
jl
@beltane:
“Larry Summers in a dress”.
Horrid image. What kind of sick mind thought that up. Just horrid.
Krugman might look OK in a dress. but… Summers…. just too horrible to think about.
JPL
@Patrick: Everyone has emergency room care. That is one major reason for the increase in costs though.
Ash Can
@beltane: Someone needs to tell these people that Antonio Gramsci is not available to take the position of head of the Fed.
Davis X. Machina
@beltane: They’re actually right. The problem is, they’re the same people who were convinced six weeks ago that the difference between nominating her, and Summers, was going to make an immediate meaningful difference in the lives of ordinary people.
It’s a win for Team Progressive — a purely nominal, symbolic win. But hey, I guess that’s a win.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@raven:
Wha? No love no love for MSTS? Sheesh, ya’ rape one lousy pelican…
David Koch
@beltane: so they’re calling her a cross-dresser. nice piece of sexism and homophobia so called gos “true progressives”
Violet
@Ash Can: Democrats are the people who play by the rules. Republicans are the people who upend the board game, stopping and ruining the game for everyone else, and run off to Mommy to get a cookie while telling her how mean everyone was to them.
jl
@Mary G: Awright! and if Costa is right about GOP plan to stand down for now and go for a redo, there will be six more weeks of numbers like that, or even better numbers, all over the country.
And I wonder what the attitude will be of small businesses with small group coverage and their employees, in states all over the country, when they compare ACA to the mess they have to deal with now?
And how convincing will be some GOPer yelling about Obamacare destroyng the American way of life, liberty and all life on earth?
TAPX486
And more good news. Ted Cruz believes in socialized medicine, in fact he is willing to vote for it. So there is a simple solution to the Obamacare problem, just enroll everyone in the government owned/run VA system. That is the one where the medical staff are federal employees and the hospitals/clinics are owned by Uncle Sam.
When asked about that, Ted didn’t want to talk about it, he just wanted to talk about Obamacare. I know there is a lot of talk about low information voters but it seems like people who listen to Cruz have had their brains removed.
Patrick
@JPL:
The number I heard today was that about 85% of all Americans had health insurance prior to the ACA. So, I don’t get the opposition to the ACA since it requires health insurance, which most people had anyway. I don’t get their opposition.
Elie
@Davis X. Machina:
Its the same fools that want to have a “revolution” all their way, while sitting their lazy asses on the couch and moving their mouse around on the laptop. As big assholes as the teabaggers – just mirror image.
I seriously think that our individualistic society has reached some sort of cataclysmic event horizon where left becomes right and vise versa
PsiFighter37
Apparently Obama met with 5 GOP hacks (including that turdbag Charles SauerKrauthammer) in private for an off-the-record conversation. Pretty sure that’s a straightforward 2D chess move on his part – tighten the vise on the GOP by having the establishment journalists squeeze their nuts on this stupidity.
WereBear
@Patrick: It’s difficult because the way so much of the GOP thinks about things is downright bizarre.
They believe in zero sum thinking. If someone else is getting health care, their own health care is getting reduced.
So screw all those other people… they don’t deserve it anyway.
I really don’t think normal people think that way.
Kay
@Mary G:
Thank you, Mary. The entire internet has let me down on this detailed info. I would like to see some states reported on, please.
So it’s a half hour in CA, 15 wait, 15 handling. Not bad at all.
Suffern ACE
@jl: nope. I’m six weeks we just do it all again.
Basically month to month government until January 2015.
jl
@Davis X. Machina: If the debt limit is not raised, just hope the Fed can patch things together for a while. That will be quite a bit of help for all the ‘lesser people’ in the U.S.
After its over you can start complaining about the Fed again. Or if its not over soon, then won’t make much difference.
Tommy
@jl: I’ve said this over and over and I will keep saying it. I own my house. I own my car.No outstanding loans.
I also work for myself. By far my largest expense each month is my health insurance. I finally got on the healthcare.gov site and I will save $100/month. This is why IMHO the Republicans HATE the ACA. It will work. I make a fair amount of money but $100/month is real money. I mean my groceries for a week.
My only fear is lower income people that need insurance, maybe in a rural/Republican area won’t see what they can get. Refuse to apply for benefits and not get the healthcare they should have. Believe all the lies about “death panels” and gosh know what. That would be sad.
jl
@Suffern ACE: I guess it will depend on whether polls start to show increasing chance of Dem taking House. A lot House GOPers in districts no longer safe will have to think longer about their chances against teabagger in primary and general election.
The Dangerman
@Kay:
I just finished CA application; app crashed in Chrome and IE, but worked OK in Opera (Windows 8 here). Still bugs, but it wasn’t that bad. I’m most impressed by the Online Chat at CoveredCA, which has been very responsive and helpful (as much as they can given the bugs)…
…but I’m an ACA supporter; if I was a TPer and had to go through the crashes and bugs, I’d be going ape shit (well, ape shittier).
Kay
@Patrick:
Tea Party rank and file think it’s political death for the GOP because it will bring out hordes of dedicated liberal voters, forever. They really believe this. I don’t. I don’t think there are enough uninsured VOTERS to make it a real political winner.
Medicare and Medicaid haven’t created any permanent Democratic majority, which they know because half of them are on one or both programs but they’re fear-driven people and they aren’t thinking straight.
Davis X. Machina
@jl: Vice Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve Bank Yellen won’t be Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve Bank at that point, not yet — Bernanke’s’ term ends in January — and possibly not ever, given a supermajority Senate.
So I don’t see your point.
JPL
@Patrick: The ACA numbers don’t add up unless young and healthy register. They want it to fail even though it reduces health costs. It would have been just perfect if Bush had introduced it.
Kay
@The Dangerman:
Thanks. So far, it looks like Kentucky, CA and Washington are going okay. I have high hopes for Minnesota. I lived there. They’re competent people.
Patrick
@Kay:
I think on paper there are. Aren’t there like 30 million insured people in this country? The problem is that most of these folks for whatever reason don’t bother to vote.
ETA: I just saw your capitalization of the word VOTERS. You nailed it.
Tommy
@jl: My district is kind of strange so I don’t assume the same holds for other districts. We tend to vote “Blue Dog” or moderate Republicans. I mean we voted for McCain over Obama and I live in IL. But a large part of that is I am near a large military base, and well say what you will about McCain, he did serve with honor and a lot of folks I know can’t forget that.
But we had a tea party guy run for our open House seat against a pretty middle of the road Democrat. In many states he might not even be able to run as a Democrat. The tea party guy got a lot more votes then I would like, but he was kind of laughed at. In the debates he showed he had no idea how the world worked. He got called on it.
Baud
@Kay:
Pace yourself, Kay. It’s going to be a long month.
Patrick
@Kay:
I’m glad the 2012 election went the right away. I hate to think what their exchange would look like, if they would even have one, if the GOP had remained in charge of their leg.
Mary G
@Kay: Fifteen minute wait now down to four minutes, so improving. I am still hearing about glitches and crashes, and it’s a problem because some of the people who need insurance the most are not computer-savvy at all.
Suffern ACE
@jl: there is an election next month in Virginia that would go a long way toward showing that voters don’t want to put up with it. I know the polls show the Dems with a widening lead. But I really think a sweep would be very helpful. Dem voters have to show that this has pissed them off. I would like them to vote so hard that the levers break off the machines.
catclub
@Patrick: Taft-Hartley. Hyde Amendment.
Quaker in a Basement
‘Bagger, please. You won that fight. The Dems have accepted your sequester-level funding. So can we move on now?
TAPX486
Guy on Chris Hayes says the markets are totally freaking out because they assume the debt limit will be raised at the last minute. One of the themes of the 1960’s novel ‘On the Beach’ was the human race was not crazy enough to use the bomb. Well in the novel THEY did use the bomb and in the end every one died. As we get closer and closer to the 17th the margin for error gets smaller and smaller.
yam
The new theme song for the GOP – Candy Shop by Andrew Bird:
Well, piece by piece and nail by nail it’ll all come down some day before the fires of hell
You let me in your house
You let me in your house
You let me in your house with a hammer
Set to tile or set to stone
Tit for tat and bone for bone
I’m goin’ to set fire to your glamour
Well now rock that candy shop
Rock that candy shop
Rock that candy shop set it on fire
Run away and watch it burn
I’ve got to set fire to your glamour
catclub
@Davis X. Machina: “a purely nominal, symbolic win”
No, it is a real win. Yellen was by far the better candidate from the point of view of progressives. And she will be put in office,
so not symbolic.
catclub
@TAPX486: “says the markets are totally freaking out because they assume the debt limit will be raised at the last minute.”
This make no sense. Either they totally freak out because they fear it will NOT be raised. Or they do NOT freak out because they expect it will be raised in time. Last minute is still in time.
Chris
@Kay:
Thus confirming, just in case there was any doubt, that they don’t fucking understand politics. Electoral victories like that don’t guarantee elections for you – if anything they make elections less certain because now that you’ve passed what your voters wanted, they have less reason to vote for you. Example: New Deal creates enfranchised, white middle class (via institutions like Social Security, unions, income redistribution); white people are satisfied, and since their economic issues have now been addressed, feel more inclined to indulge their other instincts (e.g. race/culture war issues).
chopper
@Davis X. Machina:
even better.
of course, after the horrible recession that follows takes a huge cut out of tax receipts (and maybe a nice natural disaster in a red state), it gets even more fun. third world economy FTW!
pseudonymous in nc
@Kay:
There are crappily-insured voters who have had to deal with a crappy individual market; there are people who’ve wanted to quit their crappy jobs and start their own businesses who stuck with their crappy jobs for the health insurance.
Yes, you’ll find people without health insurance in the reddest red districts, who either don’t vote or vote GOP because the sheriff is near and also, too. But the Dems should be able to draw on a pretty broad demographic spectrum this time next year.
fuckwit
@Patrick: Their opposition is to the fact that those 85% are essentially indentured servants– slaves. If they lose their job, then they, their spouses, their kids, all lose their medical insurance, and will die on the streets, bankrupt. They depend on their corporate masters for their very lives and the lives of their families!
The fear of losing medical insurance keeps all of us little people in line. That fear, as of Oct 1st, is now gone. Everyone is on an equal footing: employed, unemployed, self-employed, old, young, pre-existing conditions, healthy, unhealthy, all of us, by law. That’s the 1%’s worst fucking nightmare.
jl
@Davis X. Machina: I didn’t mention Yellen in the comment you referred to, so I don’t see your point of not seeing my point.
Matt McIrvin
@Ash Can: The Republicans believe that the ACA was somehow a stolen vote. I just saw a comment from G. B. Miller on John Scalzi’s blog:
Note, the standard for “passed through normal channels” now automatically includes getting 60 votes for cloture in the Senate. How quickly we learn, or maybe forget.
Matt McIrvin
@TAPX486:
Just like the 2008 fiscal crisis happened because people assumed Obama was going to be elected?
Causality is easy to prove when it’s completely unmoored from time and space.
Matt McIrvin
…Hmm, I read that as the markets freaking out because they wanted the debt limit to NOT be raised. But maybe that was a misreading…
TAPX486
@Matt McIrvin: OOOPS LEFT OUT THE WORD ‘NOT’!!!!!! Markets are not freaking out (yet) because they expect a last minute deal.
catclub
@fuckwit: “Their opposition is to the fact that those 85% are essentially indentured servants”
Well, except the ones on Medicare and Medicaid, so a good bit less than 85%.
Chris’s point about not understanding politics is much more depressing, since it says that actually creating something that your side wants will weaken your coalition more than not creating it.
It reminds me of the “Doesn’t anybody know how to play this game.” quote. Except it is not a game.
Kay
@Chris:
This is horrible to say, but true. There will be a big chunk of people in each state who will say “I got CaliforniaCare” (or whatever) and never, ever make any connection at all.
Parents love SCHIP. I know this to be true. They don’t care that much that they don’t have health insurance, but it makes them crazy that their kids don’t.
Yet. They don’t know or care that Bush vetoed expansion and it’s a Democratic program because it’s Medicaid.
Partly it’s “messaging”, right? One has to be shameless. “These children are ALIVE TODAY because we opposed Bush’s veto” You’d have to say that. Be that blunt.
Which is actually true. There have to be children who are alive because of SCHIP expansion. Maybe a lot of them. But has it been huge politically? Not really.
Matt McIrvin
@TAPX486: OOOOHHHH, I see.
Baud
@Kay:
When I used to hang out at GOS, it seemed like whenever a commenter would push back against the “both parties are the same” meme,by citing historical evidence about the good the Dems had done, it would start a flame war because it was all too long ago or not good enough. We can’t expect others to appreciate our history if we don’t celebrate it ourselves.
Roger Moore
@Patrick:
They’re zero sum thinkers who believe that improving things for others makes them worse off. Expanding healthcare to more young people means taking it away from people on Medicare. That basic belief is why the lies about death panels and the like are so effective.
A Sleeping Regular-sized person
I’m normally content to just chuckle at your humor & insights, but when my NPR pretends the “Why won’t you negotiate with mah unprecedented demands?” is somehow a valid ‘side’…
/Dean Scream
/Guy from Real Genius study session scream
/Scream from a Wet Burglar with a tarantula on his face
fuckwit
@catclub: Good point, so employee indentured servants are not such a huge majority. Still, it’s a lot of people, and those people are now free.
As for giving people what they want and then losing their vote because they got it now and don’t need you, this is why the Rethugs have been pushing reversing Roe v. Wade for a generation now and making damn sure it never happens, because if it did, they’d never get those fundamentalist voters out to vote anymore.
I’m pretty sure the R money boys were going to try to do the same with Obamacare, but the teabaggers ran away with it and are not clear on the Lucy-and-the-Football game that Rove and the elites have been playing with fundamentalists and Roe v. Wade.
Matt McIrvin
@fuckwit: I don’t actually believe that about Roe, since it’s the Supreme Court that is relevant there. The only reason it hasn’t been overturned is that there hasn’t been a majority in place that will overturn it when the test case comes up.
DD
The “shutdown” is one week old. In case you weren’t paying attention, the House (lead by John Boehner) has worked everyday except Sunday and voted on TWENTY FIVE bills in the last week in an effort to get things going. That includes funding for national parks, funding for veterans programs, health programs, furloughed employees, etc…
On the other side, the Senate (lead by Harry Reid) has voted on ZERO bills in the last week.
When you see Reid (and President Obama) blaming “the Republicans” and specifically “John Boehner” (leader of the House), keep that in mind.
Patricia Kayden
@DD: And you keep in mind that President Obama and Harry Reid have no reason to negotiate anything with economic terrorists. Boehner needs to end this GOP shutdown and stop threatening the US/World economy. He’s irresponsible and has allowed T’Baggers to fully control the House. If Repubs don’t raise the debt ceiling, they are fully responsible for the economic downturn that will inevitably follow. It’s all on them.
Jebediah, RBG
@DD:
CR or GTFO.
johnny aquitard
@catclub:
Which is another reason republicans do not give what their talibangelical base craves: an end to legal abortion with charges of 1st degree murder against the woman having one.
It’s what the fundies have dreamt of since opposition to Roe vs. Wade was made a tenet of their religion circa 1977, and keeping the fundies motivated but unsatified means the dollars keep coming.
Just like Dubya’s use of bin Laden. Way more useful to our own democracy haters, a.k.a. the R’s, to have him free than dead. Which is why Dubya stopped looking for him after he won his 2nd term. Didn’t need to keep pretending.