Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

“Squeaker” McCarthy

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Infrastructure week. at last.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Let’s finish the job.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Open Thread: Didn’t Work Then, Either

Open Thread: Didn’t Work Then, Either

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Ed at Gin & Tacos highlights a bit of history I hadn’t seen mentioned elsewhere:

One of the most impressive aspects of modern conservatism is how completely a-historical the movement and its ideology have become. Most humans tend to remember things that happened in the past; some even learn from the experience. American conservatives, conversely, not only prove staggeringly ignorant of historical details but they also have a habit of proposing ideas that have failed spectacularly in the past as though they are new and untested.

Let’s deregulate capitalism and let the free market govern us! We tried that during the Industrial Revolution; try Googling “robber barons.” Let’s engage in regime change and nation-building! We won the Vietnam War, didn’t we? Tax cuts produce runaway economic growth! Except for when they don’t. And now we’re hearing the backbenchers who are morons even by the standards of House Republicans proposing that defaulting on debt obligations really won’t be such a big deal. As shocking as this will be for a group of people with the long-term memory of goldfish, we tried that once as well. It ended up being expensive. Really, really expensive. ..

What was that quote about doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results?

Reader Interactions

191Comments

  1. 1.

    hooah

    What was that quote about doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results?

    I believe it was “Is our children learning?”

  2. 2.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Also, for a bunch of people who claim to revere guys like Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, Madison, and Adam Smith, none of them are in the least bit familiar with any of their extensive writings, which pretty much all are the exact opposite what the “conservatives” claim them to be.

  4. 4.

    Glenn

    Everyone says that quote’s from Einstein, it ain’t. (It’s what you’re supposed to do in a science experiment, ironically.) It’s from Alcoholics Anonymous.

  6. 6.

    MomSense

    Not only a-historical but assholical.

    Did you see the tweet Ari Fleischer dropped tonight?

    If John Boehner changed his 1st name from “Speaker” to “Mullah”, Pres O wld b eager 2negotiate w him. I’ll be on @FoxNews @seanhannity 2nite

  7. 7.

    the Conster

    It just occurred to me that John Cole and Ted and Hellen disappeared at the same time. It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

    ETA: WTF Ari fucking Fleischer! We are in some dangerous waters now. I don’t like where we’re headed, but I’m really glad we’ve got a steady captain at the helm. This ship of state is going to rock.

  9. 9.

    Zam

    Only teabaggers know the true history, everything else is a myth forced upon our children by the liberal public schools.

  13. 13.

    fuddmain

    Who says the results they got aren’t the ones they wanted? In most of these cases they were able to extract money from the hoi polloi and give it to their rich friends. That has been, and always will be, their goal.

  14. 14.

    Redshirt

    @MomSense: Ug, I’ll defend Ari Fleischer a bit: He’s alluding to the Right Wing Meme floating about the last few days that Obama is willing to talk to Iran and Syria, but not Congress.

    Not necessarily calling the President a Muslim. Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

  15. 15.

    Spaghetti Lee

    Oh, Ari. Ari Ari Ari. Sorry you have to deal with being a worthless has-been who sold your soul to George W. Bush, but that’s your fault, not ours. There’s gotta be better ways to work through that then drunk-twittering. It’s not even offensive, just pathetic. “I bet if Boehner was a MUSLIM! Because…Obama…Muslims…’sall a conspiracy (glug).”

    Whenever I hear about twitter in the news, it’s always either “Politician/celebrity said something awful” or “Angry mob harassing someone who doesn’t deserve it.” Just the way it’s designed, it appears to be the best way to channel your stupidest and worst impulses and find other people who share them. At least on Facebook I see pictures of people’s dogs and cats.

  16. 16.

    PsiFighter37

    @MomSense: Ari Fleischer is just a dumber, stupider, less-griftier version of Karl Rove, without the waistline or the double chin. He can go chuck himself off the nearest elevated point.

    Shithead.

  17. 17.

    Linnaeus

    @fuddmain:

    Who says the results they got aren’t the ones they wanted? In most of these cases they were able to extract money from the hoi polloi and give it to their rich friends. That has been, and always will be, their goal.

    Right. The policies conservatives advocate work if by “work” you mean “concentrate wealth and power into the hands of a few.”

  19. 19.

    Higgs Boson's Mate (Crystal Set)

    @Glenn:

    Everyone says that quote’s from Einstein, it ain’t. (It’s what you’re supposed to do in a science experiment, ironically.) It’s from Alcoholics Anonymous.

    Einstein was an alcoholic? And here I thought that the Kirschwasser Theorem was a myth.

  20. 20.

    catclub

    Can the senate save up all the appropriations bills that the House is passing, and pass them after the CR and such get settled? Passing them now only pretends to put a bandage on the visible wounds. Passing them later measn they would count.

    Or are they only good for two weeks anyway?

  21. 21.

    Redshirt

    @Spaghetti Lee: Oh, it’s a stupid ass Tea Bagger meme, but it’s something they’ve all been mumbling the last few days in wingnut corners. Probably something from Luntz and the gang. Fleisher’s just following the script.

  22. 22.

    MomSense

    @Redshirt:

    I don’t think Fleischer is implying that the President is a Muslim, more that he is saying that the President feels more of an affinity with our “enemies” than with Americans. He’s trying to portray the President as being disrespectful to Republicans.

  23. 23.

    Dolly Llama

    OK, now wait a minute. If certain classes of T-bills’ interest rates have gone from essentially zero to 0.3 percent over this, how many billions of dollars has this shit ALREADY cost us, and why isn’t every Democrat worth his or her salt not publicly bitching about it already?

  24. 24.

    Redshirt

    @MomSense: Sure, that’s exactly it. I thought some folks were getting outraged that he called Obama a Muslim. Maybe I read that wrong. Though calling him a Muslim is subtly implied in the Tweet as well, just not primarily.

    And I’m sure the Iranians are more rational partners in negotiation than the Repukes – seriously, no hyperbole.

  27. 27.

    Amir Khalid

    I have to take issue with calling these people “conservatives”. Can you still do that, when they’ve so completely detached themselves from the intellectual framework of conservatism? They’re not ideologues anymore, just extreme partisans. They’re “conservatives” only in the sense that the other side identifies as liberal/progressive.

  28. 28.

    jibeaux

    And I’ll channel my Jon Stewart and say if the president can make progress with the most autocratic, dictatorial governments on earth but not Republicans, then maybe he’s not the problem. Also too, Ari Fleischer is the brain trust who thought twitter exempted Obama from the 140 character limit.

  29. 29.

    lamh36

    @MomSense: its funny that GOP hacks don’t realize they are also equating Boehner to the Mullahs idjits or they just don’t care that the flip dides means Mullahs/Extremist = Boehner/Teabaggers

  30. 30.

    jl

    I didn’t think Fleischer was trying to portray Obama as a muslin, though for a certain segment of the population, any sentence including ‘Obama’ and certain other key terms of art will do just that.

    It was a cheap shot playing on favorite GOP stereotypes of Democratic disloyalty, cowardice in the face of U.S.’ enemies, and that drivel.

    Fleischer is getting himself paid doing a carny act, like Morris, Newt and Palin, and others, and he doesn’t care how outrageous he has to be to do it. So, expect worse from him shortly.

  33. 33.

    Higgs Boson's Mate (Crystal Set)

    The wingers’ flailing about Obama’s willingness to negotiate with Iran is sadly ironic. Iran never threatened to crash our economy if we didn’t shitcan the Constitution.

  34. 34.

    catclub

    @Dolly Llama: Virtually No change in US interest expense. All the ones that are already sold make no difference in what we pay in interest. The bonds have been already valued and sold, all the US gov does is pay the face interest on them. The market simply values ones that get traded differently.

    Now the NEXT time we sell T-bills the US will net less, due to the higher interest. But you don’t need to get upset about this particular aspect of the debt disaster foofaraw.

  37. 37.

    lamh36

    @jl: Fleisher knows his audience. I believe it was twisted right before his apperance on Hannity on Fox (or sometime after).

    Just a hint of Obama the other/terrorist sympathizer and just enough of a hint of a racist dog whistle for the base dogs.

  40. 40.

    MomSense

    @Redshirt:

    Probably the people who think there is something wrong with being a Muslim will think Fleischer is confirming the President is a Muslim.

    I’m so sick of the Republicans. They really have gone mad.

  41. 41.

    catclub

    @jibeaux: This. Assad and the Iranians are more reliable negotiating partners than the tan man. And Obama has made this pretty clear. And then he needles: “You shoulda accepted the deal I offered in 2011”

  46. 46.

    PsiFighter37

    @Redshirt: Did she really say this?

    Jesus, I feel like these fuckers will blurt out the first absurdly stupid thing that comes to mind.

    How the fuck do real-life idiots like Bachmann, Gohmert, Stockman, and the rest of these turds get elected? And that’s not even talking about faux-intellectuals like Ryan, who at least have the sense to try and bury their bullshit under layers of ‘smart’ talk.

  49. 49.

    Kay

    @jl:

    I don’t think anyone cares about that anymore. They beat it to death.

    Ari Fleisher should have stopped talking in 2003 or so, when he was riding high. He’s got nothing left.

  50. 50.

    trollhattan

    We won the Vietnam War, didn’t we?

    Hey, we had the mutherfucker won until Walter Cronkite turned on us. Gawddamn Walter Cronkite!
    [Actual belief of more people than I care to admit I know.]

  51. 51.

    Dolly Llama

    @catclub:

    But you don’t need to get upset about this particular aspect of the debt disaster foofaraw.

    Not shitting my pants over it or anything. My investments, such as they are through my 401k, are so modest as to be the rounding error on a rounding error on a rounding error here. It’s sort of ironic that the people with the least skin in the default game, at least in the immediate term, are a democratic constituency. The folks who stand to take the first and most immediate hit are those who have Congressional reps on the payroll.

  52. 52.

    Redshirt

    @PsiFighter37:

    “So here’s the point – we’re being told right now to fund Obamacare, but the bill that we passed is not the one that we’re funding,” Bachmann told onlookers. “President Obama changed the bill just by tweeting it out, so he’s asking us to change a bill that he’s tweeted – that’s against the law.”

    Michelle Bachman Tweet.

  53. 53.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Amir Khalid: I’m not sure that’s a valid claim. Here’s Wikipedia:

    The first established use of the term in a political context originated with François-René de Chateaubriand in 1818,[3] during the period of the Bourbon restoration that sought to roll back the policies of the French Revolution. The term, historically associated with right-wing politics, has since been used to describe a wide range of views. There is no single set of policies that are universally regarded as conservative, because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time. Thus conservatives from different parts of the world—each upholding their respective traditions—may disagree on a wide range of issues.

    The term has a long history both in the US and elsewhere and pinning it down to one particular moment, that is pointing to something in the 1950s and saying “there, that was real conservatism” is pretty arbitrary. The point being that the way the “extremists” in the Republican Party are acting is no less “real conservative” than anything else. Wanting to return to an authoritarian monarchy and letting the rest of the people starve is a pretty high bar after all.

    I just reject the idea that there’s some pure form. It’s like when people describe themselves politically as “socially liberal, but fiscally conservative”. They clearly have some idea that being prudent with money or spending less is conservative, but the actual record of Presidents like Reagan or GWB makes a lie of that claim.

  57. 57.

    PsiFighter37

    Apparently WordPress doesn’t like me explaining the consequences of T-Bills blowing out in yield from their near-zero levels. In short – it won’t have an impact, as these bills are outstanding and they are zero-coupon bonds – so we’re not paying anything additional out from a cashflow standpoint. It will only start being a major issue if any further new issuance of Treasuries continues to be at these higher yields.

  60. 60.

    mdblanche

    I was forced to listen to a bit of my local Radio Rwanda affiliate today. I could at least take some comfort that the best take the local Streicher could offer on the shutdown was “both sides do it” and the worst of his wrath was directed at Iohannes boehnerensis, the pickled orange land-jellyfish, for leaving the House gym open. The right-wing Wurlitzer has a crappy product to sell and they know it. That can’t be good for their morale.

  63. 63.

    Chris

    @Redshirt:

    And I’m sure the Iranians are more rational partners in negotiation than the Repukes – seriously, no hyperbole.

    They are. Scumbag rulers, but at least in the international arena, they’ve mostly been a rational player, just one that happens to be across the field from us. The “Iranians are mad and suicidal” meme has never been more than a sack of shit whose only justification is “they’re Muslim.”

  64. 64.

    NotMax

    An elephant never forgets? Apparently not.

    “The elephant has a thick skin, a head full of ivory, and as everyone who has seen a circus parade knows, proceeds best by grasping the tail of its predecessor.”
         – Adlai E. Stevenson

  65. 65.

    lamh36

    Michael Fassebender (mister shark-teeth himself) was just on The Daily Show. The interview was interesting because thanks to the subject matter of the film you could tell it was hard for Stewart to keep it “light” as the usual DS interview usually is.

    Ok, not sure how this comment will be received, but I really do want to see 12 Years A Slave in theatres when it come out, but I don’t really want to see it with a big audience, and oddly enough, I kinda don’t know if I want to see it with a “mixed” audience either. I swear, if it’s anything like when I saw Roots and Glory and Rosewood for the first time, I know I’m gonna need a “palette cleanser” after seeing it. The anger I felt after seeing those movies were pretty intense and having to talk discuss it among a mixed group would be tough…So I’m thinking I’ll have to see it during a matinee showing…smaller audicence.

    12 Years A Slave

  67. 67.

    mdblanche

    @Glenn: The past few weeks have me thinking of another probably not real Einstein quote: “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.”

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @lamh36:

    I’m looking forward to seeing it, too (well, as much as you can “look forward” to seeing something that’s going to make you sick to your stomach and ashamed of your fellow human beings). The cast is absolutely stellar and I’m greatly looking forward to the presenters at every awards show having to figure out how to pronounce Chiwetel Ejiofor.

  70. 70.

    Chris

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    There is no single set of policies that are universally regarded as conservative, because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time. Thus conservatives from different parts of the world—each upholding their respective traditions—may disagree on a wide range of issues.

    Conservatism is the belief that the current system is the best possible one (or, alternatively, that a system that was in place until recently was the best possible one) and therefore, and more importantly, that the people who are on top of the current system (or were on top of the previous one) deserve to be there, which is why conservatism will always be synonymous with maintaining the power of the nation’s established elites, whoever they are.

    Depending on the context it can be capitalistic, communistic, monarchic, aristocratic, theocratic, anything you can imagine; “the elites” can be robber barons, a feudal aristocracy, Party apparatchiks, the clergy, sometimes several of those at once. What they all have in common is an urge to make sure as much of the power, money and connections remain in the same hands that have been handling them up to this point.

    At least, that’s as good a summary as I can come up with.

  71. 71.

    John O

    Christ/FSM, you only have to remember back to George F.W. Bush.

    But I say this all the time to wingnut pals…have you no dignity sir, nor memory? Usually gets a laugh.

  72. 72.

    Little Boots

    when an ideology perfectly serves the rich, it’s going to be hard to suppress.

    in other words, the glibertarians you will have with you always.

  73. 73.

    lamh36

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Agreed.

    From the few early reviews and film fest reviews I’ve read, audience reaction was shock, tears and emotional.

    So I can imagine what it would be like with a big “weekend” audience. I’m not sure I want to deal with it.

    Oh and speaking of the film, I posted a like in the EJW thread, but it got lost in the shuffle. The director of 12 Years was on a roundtable discussion with THR and they question came up about diversity in directing in America and Hollywood.

    I swear when the interviewer said “anyone want to comment on that” and all you heard were crickets from the white directors…all I heard was “Boom! There goes the dynamite”!

    12 Years A Slave Director Steve McQueen discusses diversity in Hollywood directors

  74. 74.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Chris: Except that the first use of the term had nothing to do with retaining the current system, and the one it wanted to restore wasn’t all that recent, really.

    As I say, claiming “this is real conservatism” is going to fail always, at least IMO. Trying to accommodate that by saying that they either want to retain a current system, or a system that was in place at any time, is you must admit getting close to “overly broad”.

    My point in any case was really that the Tea Bagger crazies have the right to be called conservatives as much as anyone does,.

    Conservatives in my experience are pretty much assholes. I wouldn’t really say that that applies to John Boehner less than it does to Ted Cruz.

  75. 75.

    priscianus jr

    @Redshirt: I’ll defend Ari Fleischer a bit: He’s alluding to the Right Wing Meme floating about the last few days that Obama is willing to talk to Iran and Syria, but not Congress.

    Oh, that makes everything OK then. NOT.

    Because that meme is totally full of shit. The difference between the Republicans and Iran and Syria is that Iran and Syria actually want to talk to Obama.

  76. 76.

    scav

    @NotMax: Whole point of going to a movie (rather than waiting for the DVD) is sometimes exactly that it’s a shared experience — otherwise it can be just an oversize bigscreen TV with indifferent popcorn. Heading into a movie like this, taking care who you share it with sounds more than reasonable.

  77. 77.

    VOR

    @PsiFighter37: From personal experience, Bachmann gets elected by casting herself as the bulwark between her constituents and the evil Liberals who want to tax you to death, force you to get gay married, and then have an abortion. Plus the local media seems to have a policy of not discussing the crazy stuff she says.

  79. 79.

    John O

    @priscianus jr:

    Ari F. is maggots on shit as a human being. A whore of the first order, and an asshole to boot. If there is a God, a traditional semi-vengeful rot-in-hell God, Ari is toasting like nobody’s business.

    I don’t like Ari very much.

  80. 80.

    Little Boots

    shouldn’t ari fleisher be flaggelating himself in some monastery, trying to expunge all the stupid lies he told for years?

  81. 81.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @MomSense:

    He’s trying to portray the President as being disrespectful to Republicans.

    After all, it’s not as if the Republicans have EVER been disrespectful toward Obama. Or have done anything at all that merits being disrespected.

  83. 83.

    Chris

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    Pretty broad, but I’d agree that “recent” applies pretty well to the original definition if by that you mean the Bourbon Restoration – it was bringing back the pre-revolutionary system, ergo undoing the couple decades of turmoil that had destroyed the hold the elites had had on the system up to that point.

    But yeah, I’ll admit to “overly broad.”

  84. 84.

    Ahh says fywp

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Im ready. I hope it makes money and a Douglass biopic is next.

    And then maybe a NEW movie about Malcolm X. A more intellectual and less tendentious take perhaps. I think all of Spike Lees weaknesses as a director were laid bare by that movie though it s not terrible.

  88. 88.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @VOR:

    OK, pray tell, how does one get pregnant in a gay marriage? I mean, beyond the turkey baster method, of course…

  89. 89.

    Amir Khalid

    @Bill E Pilgrim:
    No doubt conservatism is a many-splendoured thing. But I think Chris is right to summarise it as he did: preference for a status quo/status quo ante over change. I don’t think it affects my point about Cleek’s Law-style “conservatism”.

  90. 90.

    lamh36

    @NotMax: absolutely. Also glad that producers and film company didn’t try to “soften” the blow as it were of the film’s content.

    BTW, the best part of McQueen’s answer in the video I posted was that the truth of the matter is that it’s all about opportunity. People love to advocate for “color blind” casting, but when the casting is something like say Idris Elba playing a “Norse” God, and doing it very well BTW, then people are ready to complain about the use of color blind casting.

    The gist of what McQueen said is true though, how does one set a movie/tv show in say NYC and yet POC are rarely if ever seen, the current Girls paradox def reminds me of that.

  94. 94.

    Hill Dweller

    Republicans, who spent months refusing to participate in a budget conference, can’t pretend they want to negotiate the minute they shut the government down.

  96. 96.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Chris: No, you have a point in that “not revolutionary” could be a valid definition, in that conservatism doesn’t want to create a system that is, at least in theory, totally new. I think the “we want the power” aspect is the most important one, but that applies to revolutionaries as well. Conservatives just add “again”.

    OTOH look at how often conservatives call themselves “revolutionaries”, like Gingrich did, when everything about what they claim they want fits your definition of conservatism. So, as I say, pretty futile to try to pin down any “real” anything.

  98. 98.

    NotMax

    @Ahh says fywp

    Probably an impossible (certainly very, very difficult) task, but always hoped someone skilled would make a movie or a mini-series out of Jean Toomer’s phenomenal, impressionistic, and way too often overlooked book, Cane.

    @scav

    No harm, no foul.

  103. 103.

    Suffern ACE

    @Redshirt: I’m wondering if what’s she saying is “all that stuff that you’re hearing about affordable rates is shenanigans and Obama breaking the law. The only parts that are true are the ones we want you to focus on.”

  104. 104.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Amir Khalid: People who fit the definitions of “conservative” being offered here agitate for change all the time. See my other comment.

    They might couch it in some return to an imaginary ideal, but then people on the opposite side do that also.

  105. 105.

    lamh36

    @Ahh says fywp: True, but ya can’t beat Denzel Washington as Malcolm X and Angela Bassett as Betty Shabazz in that film.

    I’m a fanbot of both, so I think they was robbed of Oscars that year (nom for Denzel, and no nom for Angela Bassett). Denzel Washington’s loss to such a dialed in performance by Al Pacino was a travesty in my book

  106. 106.

    Chris

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    I think the “we want the power” aspect is the most important one, but that applies to revolutionaries as well. Conservatives just add “again”.

    The difficult thing is at which point “revolutionary” turns into “conservative.” E.G. the bourgeoisie which was getting nothing under the Old Regime was at the forefront of the revolutions circa 1800, but within a hundred years it had pretty clearly become a conservative class as well.

  108. 108.

    Little Boots

    @Chris:

    actually, they were getting somewhere, just not fast enough.

    like the rich these days. we are slowly slipping back into a rich get it all society, but apparently not fast enough, so they are panicking, and demanding it all now

    which will end in tears. especially if the boener’s involved.

  109. 109.

    lamh36

    Ugh, CNN has been so wrong lately, has anyone else seen any links about this?

    @ZerlinaMaxwell 44s
    RT @vplus: BREAKING: large force of armed militia has taken Libyan Prime Minister Ali Zidan from a hotel in Tripoli-hotel employee tells CNN

  110. 110.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Chris: Indeed. And now the people who fight most strongly against change in the current system in France are the socialists. Said as a resident, and without judgment one way or the other. The point again just being– are socialists now “conservative”?

    Definitions are going to fail, IMO anyway. It’s too fluid.

  112. 112.

    kc

    @kc:

    The case involved the 2010 shooting of Darrell Niles, 17, a Keenan High School student and basketball player, who was across the street in a car when Shannon Scott, then 33, fired his handgun. Shortly before, an SUV filled with youths who had been threatening his 15-year-old daughter drove by his house and they fired shots, according to testimony in the case.

    Smith then saw Niles’ 1992 Honda, and, believing its occupants posed a danger, fired his gun from his front yard across the street, hitting Niles in the head with a .380 bullet, killing him instantly. No evidence indicated Niles was a threat to Scott or his daughter.

    Trial judge ruled that SYG law gives Scott immunity from prosecition.

    Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2013/10/09/3029466/exclusive-father-not-charged-in.html#storylink=cpy

  113. 113.

    Gian

    @catclub:
    not trying to snark here.
    does this impact the value of treasury securities being held by the social security administration?

    if you know….

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @NotMax:

    Meh. I’m guessing that had more to do with the $425 million that “Django Unchained” made worldwide than it did with Hollywood liberalism.

    @lamh36:

    Steve McQueen has a major advantage over African-American directors, namely that he’s not an American. He can cut through the bullshit in a way that’s a lot harder for someone born and bred in the US to do.

    And I don’t mean that as a slam on African-Americans, like they’re somehow not trying hard enough or something. It’s a slam on (my fellow) white people in Hollywood, who are willing to give a Black British guy breaks that they might not give someone who’s AA because he’s “different” enough to make them comfortable.

  117. 117.

    SatanicPanic

    I head some dipshit conservative bringing up the 1979 default as an argument that the current one is not a big deal. Some guy from some think tank, can’t remember his name.

    I’m sure this has been covered by someone already, but I almost lost my mind reading about Representative Yoho

    “I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets.”

  120. 120.

    handy

    Dick Chaney and Ari Fleischer, a couple of regular good ole’ Sarumans and Grima Wormtongues. Though Fleischer as Mouth of Sauron works too. /LOTR dorkery

  121. 121.

    lamh36

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): agreed. I like what McQueen said about opportunity being the key to diversity. It seems simple, but it’s true.

    I also agree with him, that its weird to be filming a film or something in a place like NYC and there actually being no people of color. I know I remember reading about a poll that say a majority of white folk do not have “black” friends outside of work, and so in cases like Girls, that translate to their being no thought to the absence since it draws from personal experience I guess, but still in the melting pot that is NYC, its still strange to see no diversity.

  122. 122.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Amir Khalid: Just thinking about this a little more, so the real question then is how does this square with the original thought that started this, that Cruz, Ryan et al aren’t “conservative”?

    Everything with them is about returning to some glorified America that we’ve lost, they don’t talk about creating a brand new system never seen before. It’s all about how the free market let us become great, and now we’ve strangled that with socialism, so let the eagle soar again and so on.

    You may not still be here but I’d be curious to know.

  123. 123.

    Little Boots

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    everything, seriously everything, is about serving the rich. as they perceive it, that is.

    the rich are fucked if their servants actually get their way, but they don’t see it. in the meantime, for republicans, it is all about serving the rich.

  124. 124.

    David Koch

    militia has taken Libyan Prime Minister Ali Zidan from a hotel in Tripoli-hotel employee tells CNN

    This is what happens when you don’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express

  125. 125.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @NotMax:

    the language needs a ‘tongue-in-cheek’ punctuation mark.

    It does, it is a hyphen followed by a close paren, viz:

    -)

    It was invented sometime in the 1960s, decades before the advent of emoticons (and unlike emoticons it is not meant to be viewed sideways, with head tilted). Had a little flurry of popularity about 45 years ago, around the same time as the interrobang, and then disappeared.

  127. 127.

    scav

    @Bill E Pilgrim: I think I’ve seen a few definitions that emphasized that conservatives were resistant to change, especially big, quick ones. Don’t rock the boat, do things in careful, incremental steps. Babies, bathwater, babysteps, that sort of stuff. These lot fail entirely on that standard: they’re jonesing for immediate gutting of existing systems and replacement with a new re-engineered replica of a past they’ve imagined and or theorized.

  128. 128.

    dww44

    Without bothering to wade into the comments at all, I’m actually convinced it’s futile to focus on the sheer misreading of their and our history by conservatives and most especially the GOP. A few hours ago, I got dialed into my GOP congressman’s town hall by phone (because I frequently contact him about his votes). He who was elected in the Tea Party wave of 2010 and has now been cemented into semi-permance in his seat because his party got to redraw the districts in this red state, though I live in a majority minority city which votes Democratic. We’ve been split up so as to lose one Dem seat for the state.

    It’s impossible to convey how wrong on the facts and basic understanding of the shutdown he is (he never voted for the sequester and Harry Reid refuses to let the Senate vote on those funding bills the House is passing with significant Democratic support),

    the debt ceiling problem (Obama won’t even publish a figure what it should be raised to and the President must quit increasing the debt)

    Obamacare is going to bankrupt the country (and will force people off their current insurance and require them to buy health insurance on the exchanges at much higher costs;insurance in one part of the state will cost more than in another). Plus, he has yet to be able to get into the website and see what insurance plans are available to him and his family (the state isn’t participating)

    Need to blockgrant the healthcare monies because the states can run this better than the feds because states have balanced budget amendments. He’s introduced a balanced budget amendment. each year he’s been up there, I do believe. He’s absolutely bonkers on this pet issue of his and I could use some good succinct rebuttals why that won’t work on the federal level.

    I had indicated early in the call that I wanted to ask a question, but he ended the call after an hour and before he got to my question. I was still in the queue. Probably means well, seems to care about his constituents but he’s either not altogether bright or wilfully blind. I genuinely don’t know which.

    Sorry for the rant. I will be contacting the guy tomorrow with some counters to his meme.

  129. 129.

    drouse

    Pinky: Hey Brain, what are going to do today?

    Brain: What we do every day; try to take over the world.

    Only the Right does it with more pain and less slapstick.

  130. 130.

    SatanicPanic

    @Little Boots: Normally this kind of thing doesn’t get to me, but I almost lost it when I read that. What a pampered, spoiled asshole. I wish I had the means to be that ignorant. Unfortunately, my life requires me to actually know stuff.

  133. 133.

    Chris

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    You live in France? Oh, now I’m interested. I’m actually part French, still have the citizenship and all but haven’t actually lived there since I was 12, so… I follow the politics more closely than I do most countries, but still not nearly with the in-depth interest that I do U.S. politics.

    I do know the PS has been getting shit for being establishment and betraying the left for forever and a day (a high school classmate now works at one of their think tanks and is routinely berated on Facebook by what I assume are activist friends from his college days. Tear it all down! Bring on the Sixth Republic! Etc…)

  134. 134.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Little Boots: I agree. I just don’t see any substantial difference between “real conservatives” and Ted Cruz on that score. They all believe that.

    You’d have to follow the yellow click road way back in the comments to see what I was referring to, essentially the claim that these guys are somehow betraying conservatism.

    And now, I have to get ready for work, so signing off….

  135. 135.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @lamh36:

    It makes sense for the four main characters in “Girls” to all be white because (again speaking as a white person), white people do still tend to self-segregate socially. The criticism that made perfect sense to me was pointing out that all of the background extras (people on the street, subway riders, in restaurants or at parties) were ALSO mostly white, which ain’t NYC (or any other big American city, for that matter). But it’s one of those things that the casting director has to be specifically instructed to do or s/he will assume the (white) director wants the background players to also be white.

  136. 136.

    Little Boots

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    honestly, I don’t know what “real” conservative means this day. the people who call themselves conservative are pretty much just whores and fools serving an upper class that is in a state of panic for no reason whatsoever.

    so yeah, it’s all bullshit.

  137. 137.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @scav: That definition doesn’t hold water though, IMO. Returning to the monarchy was going to rock the boat like crazy (they did it a few times, so we know this) even if it was a goal based on a pre-existing condition, as it were. Night all…

    @Chris: Sorry have to go– catch you another time?

  138. 138.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @lamh36:

    Also, too, I could go off into my rant about how the problem in Hollywood is primarily class-based, but Cole still has my home IP address blocked and it’s too hard to rant from the iPhone. I’ll just say that McQueen is right but, since he didn’t come from Hollywood, I don’t think he realizes how big a problem social class is and how much money you need to ALREADY have so you can afford to work for free to “prove” yourself. IIRC, Great Britain has a lot more class mobility than the US does despite the fact that they have an official aristocracy/royal family and we don’t.

  141. 141.

    lamh36

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): not to get repetitive but. ..agreed :-)

    Like McQueen said it’s the difference between filming the real world as it is and filming fantasy.

    Anyway ive got to go to bed gotta get up for work tmrw…laters BJers.

  143. 143.

    Little Boots

    wondering if we should just have a class system, Lord Koch and all, so we can begin to be honest about our country.

  147. 147.

    Little Boots

    @SatanicPanic:

    there is something to that, but honestly, for the past 50 years, I think conservative has meant loyal servant of the powerful, especially the rich powerful, but also the white powerful, the national security state powerful, and the police powerful.

  149. 149.

    Gwangung

    @lamh36: Yuppers.

    Playwright Charles Mee said:

    But I want my plays to be the way my own life is: race and disability exist. They are not denied. And, for example, white parents do not have biological black children. But issues of race and disability do not always consume the lives of people of color or people in wheel chairs. In my plays, as in life itself, the female romantic lead can be played by a woman in a wheel chair. The male romantic lead can be played by an Indian man. And that is not the subject of the play.

    There is not a single role in any one of my plays that must be played by a physically intact white person. And directors should go very far out of their way to avoid creating the bizarre, artificial world of all intact white people, a world that no longer exists where I live, in casting my plays.

  150. 150.

    Spaghetti Lee

    I swear to God, I can’t even look at any shutdown/default-related news without my teeth starting to grind into dust. SO MUCH FUCKING STUPIDITY. I can’t take it anymore. Someone wake me when the global economy collapses or when Michele Bachmann eats John Boehner’s liver. Whichever comes first.

  151. 151.

    Kropadope

    @Chris:
    I think of conservatism more as describing a demeanor, one mainly defined by caution. One can be a revolutionary and still be conservative, as opposed to radical.

    When we had the American Revolution, we maintained the borders and cultural identities unique to each state. While we threw out leaders loyal to the crown, governments maintained much of the form we were accustomed to having, governors; legislatures; and so forth. There was continuity. The Constitution drew a lot from the Magna Carta and we even considered having a king. Conservatism, at its best, should accept and adapt to events while making sure that basic order is provided for.

    Now, of course the Revolution also contains good examples of both liberal and progressive strains of though and many more, they are not mutually exclusive. The problem is all three of these words are coopted by the political class and as shorthand slogan caches, tribal identifiers. They have been twisted beyond any recognition so an elite class of people can set us plebes against each other while they affirm their grip on the wealth and power. Let’s take these words back and so many others. “Interrogation” comes to mind, they dropped the “enhanced” at some point (which was still pushing it).

  153. 153.

    Elizabelle

    TCM has This is Spinal Tap on. Just started.

    RE their first drummer, who died in a “gardening accident.”

    Nigel: “The authorities said ‘Best leave it unsolved.'”

  154. 154.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Gwangung:

    Well, yeah, but there are only so many good casting directors out there. And given how young Dunham is, I’m kind of assuming she didn’t know that she needed to be checking up on the casting director. Hopefully she’s learned her lesson.

    Remind me to tell you about my grad school writing teacher Steve Duncan (“Tour of Duty”) and the lesson about directing that he taught himself while making that show.

  155. 155.

    NotMax

    @Mnemosyne

    Meh. I’m guessing that had more to do with the $425 million that “Django Unchained” made worldwide than it did with Hollywood liberalism.

    It can be both. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Production companies don’t stick around long by backing movies which they expect to fail financially.

  156. 156.

    Little Boots

    modern conservatism does not care about inequality. that is the big difference. everything flows from that. modern conservatism does not care about people who have less. what happens to them is their own problem. housing, education, health care. all of it is their own problem. modern conservatism does not care about that. at all.

  157. 157.

    scav

    Anybody needing a break and new thing to worry about, or a new word for scrabble, there’s semelparity or suicidal reproduction.. It’s not just for plants and fishies anymore.

    A new study suggests that some species of marsupials mate with such vigour and intensity that it quite literally kills them.

    The scientists say that males die in large numbers after mating with as many partners as possible in sex sessions lasting up to 14 hours at a time.

    Worse? It might be a cunning evolutionary plot by the wimminz.

    @Bill E Pilgrim: Funny, I know an avowed Bourboniste and it could very well be true of him. Perhaps the problem is assuming there’ll be a single one size fits all and all contexts definition of conservative. The current lot are clearly at the toxic rather than contributing end of the functioning community scale though.

  160. 160.

    Little Boots

    @Kropadope:

    true enough, although adam smith had a heart.

    some of the social darwinists, not so much, and that is what they love these days.

  162. 162.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @NotMax:

    Production companies don’t stick around long by backing movies which they expect to fail financially.

    Right, and conventional wisdom has been that movies about slavery are money-losers, like “Beloved” or “Amistad.” Having Tarantino prove that conventional wisdom wrong helped get McQueen’s film green-lighted, especially since they were able to attach an up-and-coming British director who also happens to be black — two-fer! I’m surprised George Clooney didn’t get to it first.

  163. 163.

    Kropadope

    @Little Boots: I always thought I would like it if they dropped the social/religious issues, but the new breed of sociopath is using his acceptance of, for example, homosexuals as a fig leaf to cover a doubling down on the systemic rigging against the working class and poor.

  165. 165.

    The Dangerman

    Them being obtuse about history? Look no further than their idea to raise the debt ceiling for 6 weeks; if they were to do that quickly, say by Friday, 6 weeks out is 11/22/2013. Now, what happened 50 years ago on that date and MIGHT that be a bad day for them to threaten default?

  166. 166.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Gwangung:

    Random response to that quote: you could actually have two white parents produce a biological black child if the genes line up and (more importantly) either or both of the parents have some, shall we say, ancestry that is not obvious to the naked eye.

    I personally know at least two mixed-race couples who have blond children that ignorant people would classify as white. If those “white” kids marry someone with a similar background, you certainly could have two white parents with a black biological child. It’s just that you’ll have at least a couple of black grandparents beaming in the background of the picture, too.

  167. 167.

    Chris

    @Kropadope:

    I used to think that too, but eventually learned better. Want to know what the GOP would look like without the religious right? Two words: Ayn Rand.

  168. 168.

    Amir Khalid

    @The Dangerman:
    I hadn’t noticed that anniversary before. In any case, six weeks is practically no time at all, the way the Republican party has been dragging this out, so why would the Democrats agree to it?

  169. 169.

    Hill Dweller

    @The Dangerman: The minute the wingnuts agree to raise the debt ceiling, regardless of the amount, they’ve lost all leverage. A six week extension is laughable.

    Reid needs to pass a one year extension before the House votes on their version. The Senate Republicans are threatening to filibuster any attempt to raise the debt ceiling, but Reid said he’d use the nuclear option to counter it.

  172. 172.

    The Dangerman

    @Amir Khalid:

    …so why would the Democrats agree to it?

    Obama’s already agreed to a short extension (I don’t think he said 6 weeks, but he did say short).

  173. 173.

    Hill Dweller

    @The Dangerman:

    Obama’s already agreed to a short extension (I don’t think he said 6 weeks, but he did say short).

    PO also said a clean extension, which I doubt Republicans give him.

  174. 174.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    As things head towards the end of the “cooling off” period for BART workers and their management, I’m seeing more and more evidence that the “liberalism” of the Bay Area is a mile wide and an inch deep. Go read any “news” site from the Bay Area, and you’ll see “liberals” screaming that BART workers should be prevented from exercising their right to strike, because it’ll take them longer to get to work.

    What is it with people in this country that, when they’re presented a potential strike for workers, they say “Hey, they have a union. I don’t have that! TAKE THAT AWAY FROM THEM!”, instead of “HEY, WHY CAN’T I HAVE ONE OF THOSE?”

  176. 176.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    For the one or two of you who read my bitching last night, UPS finally actually delivered that package this evening, around 7:15 PM. No explanation or apology.

  178. 178.

    Redshift

    @dww44: Well, search Krugman’s blog if you want a really good explanation, but in brief, a federal balanced budget amendment is a really bad idea because economics downturns are longer and more severe if the government can’t engage in counter-cyclical spending, which requires deficit spending. It in more concrete terms, when the economy allows, tax revenues fall at the same time that more people need unemployment and other assistance through no fault of their own, but a BBA would force those to be cut. And if he brings up the canard that we can’t do that because the resulting deficits never get reduced during good times, the answer to that is not to elect Republican presidents, since they’re the only ones who have massively increased the debt during economic booms instead of reducing it.

  180. 180.

    Bruce S

    Contemporary GOP is stupidity governed by mendacity. There’s no middle ground left…

    Only problem for them is increasingly the stupidity is running rampant over the mendacity.

    Pass the popcorn…

  181. 181.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    @srv: I never realized the Haight was the whole Bay Area. Thanks for setting me straight.

  182. 182.

    JordanRules

    @The prophet Nostradumbass: That’s a damn shame. I find myself being the only union supporter in liberal circles a lot too. And most of their objections sound like about 30 years of talking points, inadequate exposure to history and eroding media combining into a salad of ignorance and complacency.

    It frustrates the shit out of me.

  183. 183.

    Spaghetti Lee

    @The prophet Nostradumbass:

    Occasionally I hear people from the Bay Area or Seattle or Massachusetts talk about how the area’s reputation for progressivism and leftiness is a sham, and I think, compared to what? At a rough guess, looking at the figures 500,000-600,000 people in the Bay Area voted for Romney last year. Sure, Obama got a lot (a LOT) more, but that’s still a hell of a lot of Republicans hanging around to bitch about unions and public transportation, which is probably mostly who you’re hearing it from. Everywhere in the country has some conservatives. Everywhere has some liberals, too.

    Anyway, maybe you and one of our red state posters could do a little exchange-program type thing.

    Edit: Go read any “news” site from the Bay Area

    Newspaper comment sections are a retaining pond for the scum of the earth. In every city. I thought this was well-established.

  185. 185.

    Ahh says fywp

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Beloved is literary fiction’s literary fiction. A movie was either going to be art house appeal only or bastardized and suck anyway.

    Amistad was another white people save the darkies, the ‘urban audience’ didn’t thank them, the white audience didn’t care, and the critics were scratching their heads.

    Glory made money. Glory had De nzel Washingtono. Hm, just a thought.

  186. 186.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    Something I hadn’t noticed before… AL actually quoted 2/3 of Ed’s Gin and Tacos post in her “post” at the top. Is that actually “Fair Use”?

  187. 187.

    brantl

    Tax cuts produce runaway economic growth! Except for when they don’t.

    It never has worked, period.Please, show me a time it ever did?

  188. 188.

    A Humble Lurker

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):
    *shakes head* Seriously? You got booted for that, but he didn’t for all the nasty crap he splooges on everything within a ten mile radius? I love Balloon Juice and I like Cole, but damn it are his priorities messed up some times.

  189. 189.

    Chris

    @A Humble Lurker:

    *shakes head* Seriously? You got booted for that, but he didn’t for all the nasty crap he splooges on everything within a ten mile radius? I love Balloon Juice and I like Cole, but damn it are his priorities messed up some times.

    Please permit me to associate myself with this position.

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