Why is this even a question?
Why did a small school district in suburban Chicago just tell Walmart that it would not provide major tax breaks for the company to build a 300,000-square-foot store? The school board of Summit Hill District 161 in Tinley Park, 25 miles southwest of Chicago, voted unanimously Wednesday night to reject the request by Walmart for about $5 million in tax incentives to build a $50 million store.
Board President Sean William Doyle told the audience he couldn’t “wrap (his) head” around supporting the proposed tax abatement.
“Philosophically, it comes down to an issue of fairness,” Doyle said, noting that Wal-Mart has billions of dollars in income and yet was “demanding a school district give up $1.4 million dollars to help them develop a site, put up a store and make money.”
The deal actually called for Summit Hill School District 161 as well as another school district and a park district to give about $4.4 million in tax rebates as an incentive to build the store, the newspaper said.
Tinley Park, now with about 60,000 residents, was named a few years as “America’s Best Place to Raise Your Kids” by Bloomberg Businessweek Magazine because it has great schools, a vibrant downtown, and housing options that range from modest to luxurious. Oak Park Avenue, which serves as a Main Street shopping area, includes a beautiful town square where residents gather and children ride bicycles. Tinley Park also has a 28,000-seat outdoor concert amphitheater, one of the largest in the Chicago area.
Tinley Park officials have said that the Wal-Mart development would generate $10 million in property taxes to District 210 and Summit Hill School District 161, as well as the Frankfort Square Park District, during its first 10 years of operation. But the proposed deal required that the districts rebate about $4.4 million of those taxes at first as an incentive.
I’m not sure when it happened, but somehow we all got snookered into believing they were doing us a favor by hiring us, allowing us to shop in their stores and deigning to do business in our towns. How about they just pay all their taxes (like we do) and we’ll maybe shop there?
Pooh
Soshulism!
? Martin
I’ve never stepped foot in a WalMart. Intend never to.
Scott
Our city, San Antonio, gives tax breaks for economic development but never, ever are school taxes involved. This seems very unusual.
Shakezula
Please, these jackholes would privatize air if they could think of a way to do it. Demanding money so they can make more money is positively benign. (But they should still be told to take a flying leap into a pile of rusty guillotine blades.)
schrodinger's cat
@? Martin: I have, for a long time that was the only big box store where I lived, so I have shopped there for staples, for toothpaste and the like.
ETA: Not a Walmart fan but sometimes there are no decent alternatives.
ericblair
How about them and their attendant billionaire trustafarians go fuck themselves? That would work, too.
wenchacha
No shit, Kay.
Maybe enough people in towns that can still afford to will catch on to this. WalMart stays as long as it can milk out more tax breaks, puts the locals who work there on SNAP, and then threatens to leave for greener pastures. Seriously, they would love to build on someone’s old family farm.
Elizabelle
Glad to see this story highlighted.
Glad to see pushback against Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart style practices.
Yatsuno
@schrodinger’s cat: There are virtually no Wal-Marts in Seattle proper, and none anywhere near my house. The nearest Winco, however, is in Everett, and it’s right up the street from a friend’s house. I therefore am winning.
Anna in PDX
@wenchacha: I know. I didn’t know it was an option for me to go to a school board and say “I am thinking of moving into your district, but in order to have the pleasure of my company you have to waive my taxes” – but it is an option for these leeches who already make more in 5 minutes than most of us make in 5 years.
Betty Cracker
Good! I hope more municipalities tell Walmart and its ilk to go pound sand. It’s outrageous. It’s also absurd that team owners shake cities down to build luxury stadiums for their multimillionaire players to cavort in under pain of relocating the team. Those bastards have privatized the profits and socialized the costs.
Napoleon
@Scott:
Some places, like Ohio where I am from, a high percentage of RE taxes goes to the schools. So the law is crafted so that if the county wants to get the break (the entity that levies the taxes) they have to have some kind of consent from the partie whose pocket it is coming out of, the school district).
Comrade Dread
After that, they can pay their employees a living wage so they don’t have to rely on government assistance, ensure that their products are manufactured in safe conditions by workers who are likewise paid a living wage, and hire enough workers to keep their stores clean and well stocked…
Then I’ll consider it.
schrodinger's cat
WalMart’s plans of opening stores in India is on hold because
Kay
@wenchacha:
They’ve been terrible for us.
They drove out a local supermarket on the east side, and they’re in the process of driving out a local supermarket on the west side. That one is a union employer. It’s all middle aged women cashiers. If they succeed, I’ll have to drive 20 miles unless I want to shop at Wal Mart.
I also resent the give-aways, quite frankly. I’m not comfortable with this “donor-charity case” relationship.
How about they keep the 2000 dollars in school supplies, pay their taxes and pay people more? We’ll all win, as equals.
I’d prefer an arm’s length relationship with mega-corps, thanks. I’m not really looking for handouts.
pseudonymous in nc
There was a time when jarb-cree-ay-turrs weren’t parasites on the tax base. It feels like it was a long time ago. Now, it’s a race to the bottom to see which municipality will either offer tax breaks for companies to stay or tax breaks for them to move in, because there’s always a municipality that’s prepared to prostrate itself and give up millions in exchange for a few dozen jobs. That’s because municipalities can’t up-sticks, but companies can.
rikyrah
Tinley Park is no left-wing paradise. …so, don’t think that’s what happened there.
Tone in DC
(But they should still be told to take a flying leap into a pile of rusty guillotine blades.)
I’ll settle for some large cacti, in place of the rusty blades. Just sayin’.
I heard Mayor Gray won’t stand up the Waltons and their minions regarding the proposed DC stores. That is a shame. Still, I hope these trustafarian idjits take their bat and ball and go somewhere else.
Keith P.
@? Martin: It’s a lot of kids running around and into other people’s carts (my friend calls Wal-Marts “WallyWorld” for this reason), and it has the strange phenomenon of people pushing their shopping carts from the side, presumably so they can have entire aisles to themselves.
pluege
you can be sure it has a lot more to do with a relatively rich community not wanting the low-end stigma of Walmart lowering their property values than anything to do with “fairness”. In suburban communities like that, EVERYTHING revolves around property value, which is something big boxes tend to lower, not raise.
negative 1
Although I live next door, not in it, Massachusetts has always had the reputation of not ever allowing these kinds of deals. And it’s one of the nicest states in the union in which to live. I don’t think those two things are unrelated.
cleek
fuck WalMart.
Shinobi (@shinobi42)
@rikyrah: I would say that rich conservatives in particular do not want to give up money for their kids schooling, they know that the quality of schools and education affects their kids future as well as their all important property values.
Plus, they are rich enough to not need a wal-mart. And they may not even want one as it would attract lower income customers.
pluege
@pluege: and note, no doubt Tinley Park would be tickled pink to have some other community within 10 miles not be as fair as them and take Wal Mart up on their offer to allow the community to subsidize the multi-billionaire Walton family.
Kay
@rikyrah:
It doesn’t have to be a left wing paradise, to me. The retailer should pay all their taxes.
Suffern ACE
I wonder about the net property taxes generated in these deals anyway. In my little namesake village, we’ve had a Wal-mart/grocery store go in on what was probably a vacant lot (it was built about the time I moved here, so I don’t know what went there before). The two grocery stores went out of business and they’ve been sitting vacant for ten years. Once those went, the remaining strip mall stores just kind of had to close. It’s not just Walmart. The new super grocery store strip mall across the border in Jersey helped. But now we have to entice someone to come and build on these vacant lots. There’s only so many assisted living/independent adult housing complexes one village can have before we admit that we just exist as a town to run shuttle busses to wal-mart.
the Conster
@negative 1:
I keep trying to explain this fact to my wingnut friend – Massachusetts has all of the things that she hates, but by every measure we’re better off. WTF.
Villago Delenda Est
Wal-Mart delenda est.
What fucking scumbags they are. The immediate Walton heirs all need to go home and rethink their lives and give up 99% of their inheritance. They’ll still be fabulously rich on the remaining 1%.
RevRick
Walmart is notorious for all sorts of extortion. This video tells the whole ugly story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jazb24Q2s94. It’s an hour and a half long, but filled with the facts and personal stories of the misery it leaves in its wake.
Turgidson
As someone who grew up in suburban Chicago, I’m most astounded that any publication would find Tinley Park to be the best place to raise kids. Maybe the place has entered into a golden age since I moved away.
raven
@Turgidson: Buncha greasers when I was kid.
shortstop
I have friends who worked on this and are absolutely ecstatic that they won. You guys cannot believe how much pressure they were up against to shut up and let Wal-Mart have its way with everyone. And I am pleased to report that WM’s hideous labor practices were a big piece of the community case against them. It wasn’t just taxes.
@? Martin: Sorry, this is just a pet peeve. “Set foot” or “stepped,” please. “Set” takes an object in this context; “stepped” doesn’t. I know this is common usage now, but I must cry out into the darkness even as I hypocritically tell people to lighten up about other lost language battles.
Turgidson
@? Martin:
I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been in one, and I too aim to keep it that way.
The only reason I’ve ever seen the inside of one was because my now-departed grandmother lived in one of the towns the hippie pinkos tell you about – heartland large town/small city, had a bustling downtown and robust blue collar/middle class employment because of a nearby engine factory. Factory has been gradually automating and shrinking its workforce the past 20-30 years, and at some point a Walmart opened up out by the highway, which throttled many downtown businesses, most of which are now shuttered. In that town there was pretty much no alternative to Walmart for a number of things, so I went there a few times when visiting her. Needed to shower afterward.
Cassidy
Ooh boy, love these threads. I, for one, cannot wait until the insults towards poor people begin who are just so dumb with their money.
schrodinger's cat
@Turgidson: OT, In my review of the Inside Job, I used a comment you made on one of the BJ threads.
Violet
We got a Wal-Mart near me a little bit ago. The neighborhood tried to fight it but lost. I’ve been in a few times. Once because I got a gift card and another to purchase one–specific request from low income family being sponsored at Christmas. It was surprisingly empty even at Christmas. I don’t know how well it is going to do. Most of the employees were African-American so they must not be from the neighborhood, which has few African-Americans but many Latinos. Made me wonder how they did their hiring.
Amir Khalid
@shortstop:
I share your sentiments on this. Many a time I’ve had to bite my tongue, as it were, when I see a mistake like this. People often take it personally when you correct them. (My own pet peeve is who/whom. Come on, people, it’s not that hard to distinguish between subject and object!)
Trollhattan
Makes me wish my city would crank the minimum wage to $15–that would keep the bastards out forever. We’re encircled and the suburban Walmart megastores with groceries are putting the hurt on the local grocery chains, which in turn is causing attacks on the grocery workers union. I’ll bet Walmart is sad about that.
Completely unfamiliar with Illinois taxation but will guess they want some sort of tax increment financing scheme. It’s big-box chain crank.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_increment_financing
brettvk
The Walton family foundation is a leading funder of the destroy-public-schools movement, so the corporation might have looked on this as a twofer. To be fair, the foundation bucks usually concentrate on ruining education for the underclass, but maybe they’re branching out and up to the bourgeoisie.
shortstop
@Violet:
Due to their boneheaded labor practices, they’ve been having a little trouble getting stock onto the shelves and out the door.
Bob's Had Enough
Let’s see…
+$10 million in increased tax revenues over 10 years
-$4.4 million in tax givebacks
——
+$5.6 million
– $X million in lost tax revenues from closing local businesses
– $X million in lost property taxes from slumping commercial property values
– $X million in lost tax revenues from lower tax revenues from locals now working for lower wages
– $X million in higher support costs for locals who are no longer earning a living wage/working full time
—–
+/- ?
Tokyokie
A few years ago, I drove through Boise City, in the far western part of the Oklahoma Panhandle, on a Sunday afternoon, and I was stunned. There were lots of people downtown. Most of the storefronts housed going businesses. The movie theater was even still in operation.
And then it dawned on me. The town doesn’t have enough population (1,260) within a 50-mile radius (the county only has 2,475 residents) for Wal-Mart to be concerned with it.
satby
@pluege: No, Tinley Park was a working class ‘burb that had a huge influx of “white flight” from the south side of Chicago in the late 60s. It’s a wee bit mixed now, but I bet the fact that they have a Wal-Mart less than 5 miles away next burb over, as well as a KMart, Sam’s Club, and other big box stores nearby mattered more. Traffic is horrendous around 159th and Harlem. The idea that a bunch of rich ducks wanted to have the cash-strapped public schools give up revenue was the final nail, I imagine.
Mark S.
I can understand incentives and tax breaks for companies that come in and create good jobs. But fucking Walmart? So they can come in and create a bunch of shitty minimum wage jobs? I really don’t understand the logic there.
Kay
@brettvk:
Agreed, but I think it’s turning our way. This is just one example.
burnspbesq
@shortstop:
I saw that Forbes article a couple of weeks ago. Imagine that: provide shitty customer service and customers stop coming.
opiejeanne
@shortstop: Is there the possiblity that Walmart will open their doors just outside the city limits, in the county? That has happened to a couple of small towns and it destroyed them almost as quickly as letting them inside the city limits would have.
shortstop
@opiejeanne: I think so, sure, but the suburbs are pretty dense around there and so there’s already quite a bit of retail competition. I don’t think it would have the same debilitating effect on local business as it does in small rural towns, where WalMart comes in and wipes out everything for miles and miles.
Turgidson
@schrodinger’s cat: Cool! I’m famous! Glad I could contribute. I vaguely remember about +3 when I belted that one out.
Mart
Had a similar battle near my home with a Mayor about booted and all kinds of other nonsense. If they built the WalMart would have killed two to five groceries, two auto parts stores, a KMart across the street, etc. They wanted to tear down some of the ony affordable apartments in the area that allowed lower middle class kids into the very good rich white suburban public schools. WalMart had the usual tax incentives ransom demands; for the privelage of not paying their employees a living wage so we can subsidize them with food stamps and Obamacare. Drives me crazy that the six heirs to Sam have more wealth than 140M Americans, and they demand ever more.
A win for the little guys.
http://ballwin-ellisville.patch.com/groups/business-news/p/editorial-ellisville-walmart-fight-symbolic-of-parochialism
RSA
@Bob’s Had Enough: Exactly. How much analysis are these localities doing of the overall tradeoffs? I’d hope a lot, but I’d guess not enough.
Worse, the tax breaks never seem to be contingent on expectations actually being satisfied. I’ve read a fair number of news articles about companies pulling out of some area with everyone being unhappy with the way things turned out. Why not have a formula that combines all of your numbers, makes a projection of change over the next n years without Walmart moving in, and say that if things improve above some threshold the company gets a proportional tax break?
Xjmueller
Wal-mart needs Tinley more than Tinley needs more shopping choices. There’s plenty of big box and other shopping available around there. Good for SD 161.
ArchTeryx
@Turgidson: It turned into a Republican yuppie bedroom community. I remember the Tinley Park Rock Island station; it was built in the 30s and looked it. Right next to it was a grain and feed store for the farmers in Will County, and a cement plant right next to it. Tinley Park High School was greaser hell.
Then the yuppies and their $350,000 townhouses started arriving en masse, World Music Theatre was built, and a bunch of new stuff went in all over town. The main Metra station is now all imported granite and rocks, in the style of the original Bremen station of the 1800s, the cement plant is gone and the grain and feed store is now a commuter parking lot.
It’s a very different place now.
Mnemosyne
They’ve been trying to open a Wal-Mart in Burbank but there have been multiple problems with it, including the fact that traffic is already a nightmare trying to get to that mall and the city of Burbank hasn’t responded to resident complaints about there being a two-lane road that’s supposed to serve thousands of mall customers.
liberal
@Shakezula:
Not really entirely different from land ownership in the absence of land value taxes: it’s something that’s necessary for life and is not produced by the owner.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@opiejeanne:
In So Cal terms, Tinsley Park is more like West Hollywood or Santa Monica — a relatively small suburb completely surrounded by larger suburbs or cities. So having the Wal-Mart go one town over is mostly going to affect how far people have to drive to it.
WereBear
We successfully warded off a WalMart attack, and eventually opened a community store with local shareholders. We’ve shopped there often and really like it.
I did some research for the group; what I uncovered is kind of common knowledge now, but coming in cold it was horrifying. Come in, destroy all other retail, raise the prices, then close the store so everyone has to drive fifty miles to buy underwear.
Embee
@rikyrah:
Tinley Park is my town and while it is not a left wing paradise, it is hardly deeply red – more purple I would say.
There are plenty of retailers located in Tinley Park – Walmart is not needed.
LongHairedWeirdo
Actually, the way it started was “give me money to build my factory *here*”.
Actually… heh.
First, it started with “You know, this would be a good site- but, no power, no water, no roads. That’ll cost *someone* a pretty penny. Will you give us infrastructure?” And that’s not unreasonable.
Then, it went to “you know, I could move this to (state), because property taxes are lower. Make you a deal, though – cut our taxes to match them, and we’ll stay.”
Then, it went to “who will bid me what for building my factory here?” Because there *is* a choice, here, or there.
And *then* it became commonplace enough for WalMart to say “give us a boatload of money for opening a store we’d probably open anyway.”
James E. Powell
@the Conster:
I keep trying to explain this fact to my wingnut friend – Massachusetts has all of the things that she hates, but by every measure we’re better off.
It is hard – no it is impossible to explain anything to a wingnut because they are not interested in explanations, facts, etc. They are only interested in confirmation and reassurance.
JohnnyB
Walmart deserves all the hatred brought upon it. But this phenomenon of large retailers destroying downtowns began a long time ago with the rise of the suburban mall. My parents grew up in Northwestern Indiana in a town with small manufacturing and blue collar people. It had a variety of local downtown businesses. Then a suburban mall was built about 5 miles outside of town and the downtown quickly disappeared. They spent the next three decades trying to revive it, but it never returned and more large retailers set up shop outside town. The town is now a ghost town with few small businesses or restaurants. When I went to my grandmother’s funeral a few years ago, the mall was old and decrepit and replaced in popularity by, you guessed it, WalMart.
Ben Franklin
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